Mech Mortars... Anyone use them?

[Feign]

Something about this strange, under-damaging, never canonically used weapon kind of intrigues me.  The difficulty to hit is balanced out by the chance that it can hit when nothing else will.  this is compounded by the Airburst ammo that gives the weapon the same damage as their equivalent weight LRM launcher with Mine Clearance ammo, (a common trick in the local metagame for dealing with tiny, fast harassers with Stealth armor).

Given that I've not seen any love for the weapon in canon designs, despite their non-experimental status, and the canon designs' tendency for flavor over optimization.  I wonder, does anyone else use these weapons, and if so, how?

[Red Pins]

I do, but mostly in fiction settings for my AU project.  After a lot of thought, I gave them a shot on trailers pulled by my version of AFVs (Armored Fighting Vehicles).  One tractor, with all the electronics, and 4 trailers with mortars - since the trailers are controlled by the tractor vehicle, it doesn't cost me much to just drop the trailers and run, compared to losing the entire thing.

Just imagine, 4 MM/8's * 4 tractors * 8 mortar shells...  Connected to each other with IS C3.  I still don't REALLY understand the to-hit calculations for them despite asking, so I pulled them from the project's "Unique Technology" and "Sample Units" sections.

[Feign]

MMs firing indirectly never use C3...  MMs with clear LoS can use C3, but still have that pesky +3 difficulty.  If you have that direct LoS or that spotter in place, you're almost guaranteed to be better off with LRMs.

Where mortars come into their own is when you have lots of cover and often run into situations where you either have no spotter or it would be suicide for the spotter to get into position.  It becomes a great plinking weapon for attacking a target that can't fire back on you at all.  Much the same as LBXAC2s in open terrain.

To clear it up,  Normally, firing indirectly has a penalty of:
+1 +(spotter's movement) +(Spotter's obstacle penalties) +1(if the spotter is firing)
So, spotter walked and has clear LoS and didn't fire, that's a +2, on top of all your normal range and movement penalties for firing the weapon.
If the Spotter Jumped, has a light woods hex and fired, that's +6, on top of all your normal range and movement penalties for firing the weapon.

With MMs, the maximum for that penalty is +3, even if there's no spotter at all.  But that indirect fire penalty applies even if you have clear LoS to the target.

[Red Pins]

MMs firing indirectly never use C3...  MMs with clear LoS can use C3, but still have that pesky +3 difficulty.  If you have that direct LoS or that spotter in place, you're almost guaranteed to be better off with LRMs.

Where mortars come into their own is when you have lots of cover and often run into situations where you either have no spotter or it would be suicide for the spotter to get into position.  It becomes a great plinking weapon for attacking a target that can't fire back on you at all.  Much the same as LBXAC2s in open terrain.

To clear it up,  Normally, firing indirectly has a penalty of:
+1 +(spotter's movement) +(Spotter's obstacle penalties) +1(if the spotter is firing)
So, spotter walked and has clear LoS and didn't fire, that's a +2, on top of all your normal range and movement penalties for firing the weapon.
If the Spotter Jumped, has a light woods hex and fired, that's +6, on top of all your normal range and movement penalties for firing the weapon.

With MMs, the maximum for that penalty is +3, even if there's no spotter at all.  But that indirect fire penalty applies even if you have clear LoS to the target.

...it just bounced.  Again.  I like the concept of the weapon and all - I just don't get it.  Its embaressing.

But no C3...  Hmm, I can work with that.

[Aravilar]

I use them as low-tech, cheap weapons for Periphery and militia use.

[Feign]

...it just bounced.  Again.  I like the concept of the weapon and all - I just don't get it.  Its embaressing.

But no C3...  Hmm, I can work with that.

Don't worry, indirect firing is...  complex.

If it weren't for my gaming group in their AToW campaign using it all the time (especially after one of them grabbed a Man-Portable TAG.) "Oh gee, cornered by Mannei Dominae in an alley, oh wait, I have TAG and my buddy in the Archer has semi-guided ammo.  Buddy, kill it with your violence from way over there."

But before that it was Communications skill to spot for indirect LRM fire without a TAG.

It kind of became a signature move.  It would be annoying if it weren't so awesome.  It opened my eyes to how awesome a strategy it is in the regular tabletop.

I use them as low-tech, cheap weapons for Periphery and militia use.

I never thought about it from the cost standpoint...  Looks like about a quarter to a fifth of the CBill cost and  BV to their equivalent weight LRM...  Making them either almost double the damage per BV of LRMs with AP ammo, or almost the same damage per BV for Airburst...

Sure, they're pretty bad with mass efficiency, but I can deal with that.

[Khymerion]

I used to toss the MMs around on custom light vehicles as infantry support weapons.  Most of those date back though to the Tactical Handbook days and mostly just to lay smoke and such.  Definitely a fun militia weapon to be sure though I haven't used them as of late, as combined arms have gotten a good deal more developed and interesting.

[TigerShark]

'Mech Mortars are extremely useful in almost any situation. This chiefly comes from their damage-grouping (which is akin to SRM groupings--more geared toward crit-seeking) but also from the fact that their Battle Value is so low for the damage.

Their real benefit doesn't come until you mount them on Vehicles. A Mortar Carrier (swap the LRMs for Mortar 8s or 4s) will come in at 25% less BV than a standard LRM Carrier. That sort of value within the current BV system is irreplaceable.

[Red Pins]

'Mech Mortars are extremely useful in almost any situation. This chiefly comes from their damage-grouping (which is akin to SRM groupings--more geared toward crit-seeking) but also from the fact that their Battle Value is so low for the damage.

Their real benefit doesn't come until you mount them on Vehicles. A Mortar Carrier (swap the LRMs for Mortar 8s or 4s) will come in at 25% less BV than a standard LRM Carrier. That sort of value within the current BV system is irreplaceable.

...Just try it with a trailer!

[Psyckosama]

Here's an example Vee I built using them

http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,4784.0.html

[Feign]

http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,4784.0.html

89 BV, 142,817 C-Bills...  Very nice.

A morter carrier converted from the standard LRM tank would be pretty cool, too.

[TigerShark]

89 BV, 142,817 C-Bills...  Very nice.

A morter carrier converted from the standard LRM tank would be pretty cool, too.

We use one of those on our MekWars server. It's wicked nasty. Also have one called the "Mountain Lion". 449 BV with 2 x Mortar 8 (32) and 140 Armor. So you can basically send 4 x SRM-4s down range at the same distance as an LRM. :)

[boilerman]

I use them as low-tech, cheap weapons for Periphery and militia use.

Same here, they're a poor man's artillery with a real area-effect weapon.  'Mech Mortars are the only weapons out of the Tactical Handbook I've ever used.

[Red Pins]

We use one of those on our MekWars server. It's wicked nasty. Also have one called the "Mountain Lion". 449 BV with 2 x Mortar 8 (32) and 140 Armor. So you can basically send 4 x SRM-4s down range at the same distance as an LRM. :)

MegaMek isn't rigged for trailers, is it?  I would LOVE to try my grapeshot APC with 4 trailers, each with a MM/8...  I'm still a bit disappointed that C3 doesn't affect Mech Mortar-equipped vehicles.   [tickedoff]

[Feign]

We use one of those on our MekWars server. It's wicked nasty. Also have one called the "Mountain Lion". 449 BV with 2 x Mortar 8 (32) and 140 Armor. So you can basically send 4 x SRM-4s down range at the same distance as an LRM. :)

Or use Airburst and it's two 8-point cluster-shot LBXACs that don't care about intervening terrain or enemy movement modifier.