??Armor??

[Ronin84]

Could someone go over armor again...I tried the quick start rules and those were not very clear, I looked into the book and I think I got it but I'm still a little confused about how AP and BAR work....

[Atlas3060]

BAR is how tough something is. It is values from 1 to 10, 10 being military grade armor like the stuff on 'Mechs and Vehicles.
Newpaper sheets aren't as tough as aluminum (or some other metal) boxes, for example.

AP is Armor penetration, if you have a bullet that is AP of 4 it can penetrate better than something with an AP of 2.

Now based on just the original question, I'm not sure where you want to go from here.
Are you needing help on personal combat between people without battle armor?
Are you looking for help against battles with Battle Armor?
Are we dealing with vehicles?

Going just off the original question (BAR vs AP): If you have AP that is equal to or greater than the BAR being hit, then the bullet will go through.
If it is less than then it won't penetrate.

That's the basic interaction between the two forces. A bullet made out of silly putty would have a low AP. It won't penetrate a wooden box.
A bullet made for taking out tanks would have a very high AP value, thus practically shredding whatever is in its way.

[Ronin84]

Thanks for the input, my question is centered around AP v BAR and then the Damage Reduction that seems to occur because of the differences between the two stats.  Does that make sense?

[malk2651]

ok so we're talking about the quick start example right?

An ejected LAAF MechWarrior, wielding a combat knife (AP: 1, BD: 1) and wearing a MechWarrior Combat Suit (BAR: 4) is racing through an urban battlefield. A FedSuns infantryman with a Serrik Arms 7875D Auto-Pistol (AP: 3, BD: 3) spots him and manages a successful attack using his Small Arms Skill. The hit would ordinarily inflict 3 points of damage on the Lyran MechWarrior, but his combat suit’s BAR value of 4 reduces this by 1 point (BAR 4 – AP 3 = 1) to 2 points of standard damage. Because the MechWarrior actually suffered damage, he also receives 1 Fatigue point. Enraged, the MechWarrior manages to close in on the Davion trooper in the following turn, and delivers a successful knife attack using his Melee Weapons. The LAAF warrior is pretty strong (STR of 7), so his attack delivers a total of 3 points (2 from STR, plus 1 from the knife) at an AP of 1. The trooper, however, is wearing Ablative/ Flak armor (BAR: 4), which absorbs all 3 points from the attack (BAR 4 – AP 1 = 3) so he receives no damage or Fatigue whatsoever, and the Lyran is now at point-blank range…

So it boils down to Guy 1 has Bar 4.  Guy 2 shoots at Guy 1 with a weapon with AP3 BOD3.  So 3 armor pierce and 3 damage.  The armor is better than the armor pierce so you subtrack the piercing from the total bar to see how much stronger the armor is (4-3 =1).  So we then subtract (1) from the total possible damage of 3. ( 3-1 =2)

So the attack would deal 2 damage to Guy 1.


Does that cover it?

[Sid]

Could someone go over armor again...I tried the quick start rules and those were not very clear, I looked into the book and I think I got it but I'm still a little confused about how AP and BAR work....

The Quick start rules are simplified for you to get an idea of the game, and so is combat (and AP and BAR are simplified).

Page 15, in the upper right, has an example of how things work between AP and BAR for the Quick Strike rules (Keep in mind, the main game has many advanced rules such as specific body locations (and damage to them), bleeding, critical hits, etc. etc.)

For Quick Strike, you simply subtract the AP from BAR.  Negatives are treated as 0.  If the number is positive, subtract that number from the weapon's damage.  So, for example:

Character A, with a knife (AP 1), attacks Character B who has body armour (BAR 2 - A Cooling Vest let's say):  2 (BAR) - 1 (AP) = 1 damage mitigated.  If the Knife attack is dealing 3 damage*, we subtract the 1 that the armour absorbed to get 2 Damage total dealt to Character B, which automatically includes 1 Fatigue as well.

So Character B is stunned (automatic from taking damage).  He shakes it off with a simple action, then spends his other simple action firing back with a M & G Service Auto Pistol:  3 / 4  ( AP / BD).  Let's assume it hits. Let's assume Character A also has a Cooling Vest on (BAR 2).  So we subtract the 3 (AP) from the 2 (BAR):  2 - 3 = -1.  The vest doesn't mitigate any damage (we treat it as 0).  4 (BD) - 0 = 4 Damage dealt.  We get 1 Fatigue and stun applied automatically.

If Character A, however, is wearing a Flak Vest (BAR 5) the damage would be reduced by 2 ( 5 - 3 = 2), resulting in 2 total damage (4 BD - 2 = 2).  Or, if Heaven help Character B, Character A is in a heavy Body Armour suit (8 BAR):  8 - 3 = 5 which reduces the damage to 0:  (4 BD - 5 = -1 = 0 damage).  When no damage is dealt, there's no fatigue and no stun effect applied.
     
* - Melee attacks, such as knives, add strength/4 (rounded up) to the melee weapon's damage.  So someone with Strength 5 would deal 3 damage with a Knife (1 BD) because 5/4 = 1.25 rounds up to 2, which gets added to the 1 BD of the knife for a total of 3 damage

[Ronin84]

ok so we're talking about the quick start example right?



So it boils down to Guy 1 has Bar 4.  Guy 2 shoots at Guy 1 with a weapon with AP3 BOD3.  So 3 armor pierce and 3 damage.  The armor is better than the armor pierce so you subtrack the piercing from the total bar to see how much stronger the armor is (4-3 =1).  So we then subtract (1) from the total possible damage of 3. ( 3-1 =2)

So the attack would deal 2 damage to Guy 1.


Does that cover it?

Greatly clarified, thank you!!

[malk2651]

 O0 Good luck with your campaign.