Author Topic: Quick and silly OS & iOS weapons question. (Read 3354 times)

Wolf72 · « **on:** 15 December 2019, 19:25:39 »

So a standard One-shot missile system is +.5 tons to represent the weight of the ammo (one shot).

an improved one-shot removes that +.5 tons ... or weighs .5t less than a standard one-shot; making it only the mass of the launcher itself.

On Sarna, they list the iOS as half of a ton less (ok, so far so good). Then it says IS has a minimum of .5 tons and the clan has a minimum of .25 tons. Mech scale speaking -- huh? Or are they somehow taking into account BA (but they have their own masses for weapons anyway)

Retry · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 December 2019, 19:45:43 »

Quote from: Wolf72 on 15 December 2019, 19:25:39

So a standard One-shot missile system is +.5 tons to represent the weight of the ammo (one shot).

an improved one-shot removes that +.5 tons ... or weighs .5t less than a standard one-shot; making it only the mass of the launcher itself.

On Sarna, they list the iOS as half of a ton less (ok, so far so good). Then it says IS has a minimum of .5 tons and the clan has a minimum of .25 tons. Mech scale speaking -- huh? Or are they somehow taking into account BA (but they have their own masses for weapons anyway)

The Clan SRM-2 has a launcher weight of .5 tons. Without that disclaimer you could grab an Clan I-OS SRM-2 launcher for exactly 0 tons. The minimum forces the Clan launcher to be only .25 tons instead of 0 tons.

Wolf72 · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 December 2019, 20:30:13 »

Quote from: Retry on 15 December 2019, 19:45:43

The Clan SRM-2 has a launcher weight of .5 tons. Without that disclaimer you could grab an Clan I-OS SRM-2 launcher for exactly 0 tons. The minimum forces the Clan launcher to be only .25 tons instead of 0 tons.

But you're discounting that said clan launcher as a OS is actually 1 ton, so subtract that .5 ton and it's back to .5 ton. Same goes for IS OS SRM-2; it's 1.5 tons. Improved drops the extra .5. At least it did when I read about it.

Unless that IOS is based off a standard launcher, which wouldn't make sense (or maybe it does and I'm missing it).

Retry · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 December 2019, 21:02:22 »

Quote from: Wolf72 on 15 December 2019, 20:30:13

But you're discounting that said clan launcher as a OS is actually 1 ton, so subtract that .5 ton and it's back to .5 ton. Same goes for IS OS SRM-2; it's 1.5 tons. Improved drops the extra .5. At least it did when I read about it.

Unless that IOS is based off a standard launcher, which wouldn't make sense (or maybe it does and I'm missing it).

I-OS is based off the standard launcher. OS adds +.5 tons to a standard launcher, and I-OS subtracts -.5 tons to a standard launcher, not to the OS launcher.

If it were intended to be added to the OS launcher instead, I'd imagine it would have been quicker to just say that an I-OS weighs the same as a standard launcher, instead of going through the hassle of adding half a ton going from Launcher->OS Launcher, just to later subtract back that half ton going from OS->IOS

Hptm. Streiger · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 December 2019, 03:36:48 »

Improved One-Shot Missile Launchers weigh 0.5 tons less than their standard equivalents.
Minimum of 0.5 or 0.25t (clans)....considering that you get a RL10 for the price of a iOS SRM2. Although what if you chosse a MML3.... do I have to decide for ammunition or considering the artwork of MMLs - do I have 1 shot LRM and 1 shot SRM?

RifleMech · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 December 2019, 13:25:31 »

The One Shot Launcher includes a feed mechanism and ammo bin containing enough missiles for one shot. (TM page 230) That's why it weighs .5 tons more than the standard launcher. It's basically a normal launcher with only with a half sized ammo bin with 1 shot loaded.

The Improved One Shot Launcher does away with the feed system and ammo bin, placing the missiles directly in the tubes. (TO page 327) That's why it weighs .5 tons less than the standard launcher. It's more like a Rocket Launcher only with missiles.

Daryk · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 December 2019, 18:21:22 »

Fractional Accounting kills the standard OS launchers, as you can get a full half ton of ammo using that rule.

Wolf72 · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 December 2019, 20:23:26 »

Quote from: Retry on 15 December 2019, 21:02:22

I-OS is based off the standard launcher. OS adds +.5 tons to a standard launcher, and I-OS subtracts -.5 tons to a standard launcher, not to the OS launcher.

If it were intended to be added to the OS launcher instead, I'd imagine it would have been quicker to just say that an I-OS weighs the same as a standard launcher, instead of going through the hassle of adding half a ton going from Launcher->OS Launcher, just to later subtract back that half ton going from OS->IOS

Ah HAH! ... Hmm, have to go and check some old designs I have that have been sitting around in word

Man, that was causing my brain issues. Had it stuck in my head that they were working off of the OS not the standard launcher.

Wolf72 · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 December 2019, 16:15:07 »

there, now my ultra light clan battlemechs have better handheld missile weapons ...

2 iOS LRM-5 are only one ton and can be carried by a 10ton mech!

BATTLEMASTER · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 December 2019, 16:41:25 »

I think I had another topic like this in the past that addresses the mass of OS launchers. There's no way they should be as heavy as they are, especially considering the weight of BA launchers!

Wolf72 · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 December 2019, 17:47:03 »

Quote from: BATTLEMASTER on 17 December 2019, 16:41:25

I think I had another topic like this in the past that addresses the mass of OS launchers. There's no way they should be as heavy as they are, especially considering the weight of BA launchers!

agreed, still think original OS should be as is. Simply for game history sake and if you want to make a sub par unit for whatever reason (fun, always)

Thunderbolt · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 December 2019, 02:40:13 »

in another thread, another user observed, that LRMs & SRMs seem similar to 2.75" rockets, like the FFAR & Hydra 70.

In round numbers, these rockets are about 1m long and fit in launch tubes about 10cm x 10cm.

Thus, a missile ammo bay is (plausibly) a block about 1m x 1m x 1m containing an array of 10 x 10 = 100 missiles

Why even mount a complicated, bulky, massive launcher in front of the ammo bay? Why not just mount the ammo bay as a "rocket missile pod"? Presumably you (the MechWarrior) could configure the pod to stream launch (as long as the triggered was depressed), batch launch (groups of 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 so on), and alpha strike launch en masse.

If you could do such with regular missiles, then you could also do the same with heavier missiles (Thunderbolts, Arrow IV's), which would resemble a rack of the larger missile from the following figure ?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/AGM-114_and_Hydra_70.jpeg

Daryk · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 December 2019, 07:42:45 »

That's pretty much what Rocket Launchers are. RL-10s are half a ton, and have the best range.

Thunderbolt · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 December 2019, 08:03:13 »

50kg Hellfire missiles (in a sturdy ammo rack) are similar to Thunderbolt-5's (12/ton). IDK what would stop you or anyone else from mounting such on a 'mech, and using the ammo rack as the launcher. Missiles would be front-loaded as seen in the intro to MW4:V. Realistically, you could apply that "rocket launcher / ammo bin" to any and all forms of BTU missiles.

Occurs to me that 1 crit = 1 m³ of actual physical volume in round numbers

Wolf72 · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 December 2019, 10:43:50 »

I wish there were official rules for deciding how many Rockets you launched at a time. Thinking of Vietnam era hueys not sending out their entire pod's worth of rockets. (at least that's how it looked)

Daryk · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 December 2019, 11:38:23 »

That's why you use numerous RL-10s. Granted, you're still firing in groups of 10.

Wolf72 · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 December 2019, 20:23:49 »

Would be happy if they let you launch in a 5 pack, possibly with out the +1 mod. Keep Range based on amount of rockets (18 hexes for 5 or 10 missiles, 15 hexes for 15, 12 for 20). Give some longevity to light units using a RL-20 ... mission dependent of course: stationary targets- 5 rockets; another mech- 20 rockets! ... might be hitting to many rules for one system at this point.

Thunderbolt · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 December 2019, 05:40:19 »

1 crit = 1 cubic meter of volume (in round numbers)

1 ton ammo rack bin = 1 crit

1 ton Thunderbolt-5 ammo = 12 missiles = 1 crit = 1 m³ of volume

Thunderbolt-5 launcher = 2 crits = 2 m³ of volume

Mounting a single-tube Thunderbolt-5 launcher in front of your ammo bin puts a serious (and massive & voluminous) bottleneck in front of your firepower. Somehow, your launcher fishes out single individual missiles, zigs zags them to and fro' into the single launcher tube, and discharges them from there.

Your 1 ton / 1 crit ammo bin racks are sturdy enough to handle mechs taking fire, falling down, etc. The ammo bin has to include appropriate mounting & padding. Why not turn it into your launcher, and dispense with the "Rube Goldberg machine" in front?

Wolf72 · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 December 2019, 08:09:18 »

Vacation=no math!

I was thinking more along the lines of the RLs, as the tube set is already there. I wanted the option to let a select set of rockets out at a time. No idea if it is structurally sound or makes good battlefield sense yet.

Pop a few rockets, hide, pop a few more rockets again. On heavier units, they can pop with a full salvo. But with select-able firing a wee 5ton (or smaller) unit could send one rocket out of it's 10 then move on out and have 9 more shots ready to go. Just an idea.

Thunderbolt · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 December 2019, 09:36:14 »

Seems like an obvious MechWarrior configurable option, something you could even adjust on the fly

Wolf72 · « **Reply #20 on:** 29 December 2019, 17:54:46 »

Wait, Wait, WAAAAIIIITTTTT a sec here.

Can Clan iOS-LRM-5 be bomb pod mounted? If so, Clan ASF just caught up to IS ASF in terms of extra firepower (even if they are a bit smaller ... no penalty and long range reach)

Wolf72 · « **Reply #21 on:** 29 December 2019, 17:55:26 »

part 2 to that ...

What about Clan iOS SRM-2's or 4's?

RifleMech · « **Reply #22 on:** 31 December 2019, 03:58:59 »

Quote from: Wolf72 on 29 December 2019, 17:54:46

Wait, Wait, WAAAAIIIITTTTT a sec here.

Can Clan iOS-LRM-5 be bomb pod mounted? If so, Clan ASF just caught up to IS ASF in terms of extra firepower (even if they are a bit smaller ... no penalty and long range reach)

Quote from: Wolf72 on 29 December 2019, 17:55:26

part 2 to that ...

What about Clan iOS SRM-2's or 4's?

Interesting idea. If RL-10's weighing .5 tons can be pod mounted why not iOS LRMs and iOS SRMs weighing just as much? I don't think it's legal but I'm not sure why it shouldn't be. Might want to ask in the Rules Forums about this.

Wolf72 · « **Reply #23 on:** 31 December 2019, 08:33:05 »

Posted, hopefully it's simple enough to get answered quickly.

Was just thinking about how if the answer is yes, there are a few more options: alternate ammunition for bomb slots.

that's 4 different systems (clan: LRM-5, SRM 2 & 4, Streak-2; IS SRM-2) to play with.

Even if clans don't/won't use significant numbers of bomb pods for ASF or make CFs with these ... There's always the Sea Foxes looking to make an easy C-bill.

RifleMech · « **Reply #24 on:** 01 January 2020, 07:49:51 »

Thanks. :) I hope we get an answer soon. I'd like to know if it can be done legally. It'd certainly open up some options, especially if they can mount optional ammo loads.