Author Topic: Leviathan III (Read 67311 times)

mrbooth · « **on:** 23 October 2015, 16:55:41 »

So with the release of XTRO Republic III I have to ask who is responsible for this beast? Because you sir I like your style. My first thougbt is this thing can take just about anything you can think to throw at it and just smile and say nice try.

Korzon77 · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 October 2015, 00:11:18 »

So for the money impaird, any hints about it? what makes it so terrible beyond the fact that it's about 1 million tons bigger than anything else

Decoy · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 October 2015, 01:36:54 »

My question is how far off of the stats to the Leviathan Prime are these?

Alexander Knight · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 October 2015, 02:13:17 »

Quote from: Korzon77 on 24 October 2015, 00:11:18

So for the money impaird, any hints about it? what makes it so terrible beyond the fact that it's about 1 million tons bigger than anything else

20 docking collars and a full star of ARTS bays.

marauder648 · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 October 2015, 07:04:36 »

Quote from: Korzon77 on 24 October 2015, 00:11:18

So for the money impaird, any hints about it? what makes it so terrible beyond the fact that it's about 1 million tons bigger than anything else

Insane armour, guns tied to guns, which in turn have guns stapled to them. Its a terrifying monster of a ship. It is terrible...and beautiful to behold.

And when I say insane I mean its got armour thicker than more than a few McKenna's tied together.

Phobos · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 October 2015, 07:17:32 »

I'm not getting the armor hype here. It's not like it's the first canon ship to have 1000 points at each facing.

With 2.5M tons available, it's difficult to not come up with something brutal. Although I DO like the twist of having almost a whole Potemkin glued into this. Good thing the Clans barely care for C-Bills production costs, or I reckon this thing would almost be impossible to produce.

So having a PWS and supply dropship fleet of 20 around you, in addition to the heavy armor, makes the Leviathan III basically indestructible in the canon setting.

Jellico · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 October 2015, 07:24:43 »

The DropShips and crews and support infrastructure probably costs more. It's not like they are going to mass produce them.

marauder648 · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 October 2015, 07:33:16 »

Indeed but that they built up that infrastructure also speaks volumes. The Bear's can't mass produce these things, they are basically the setting's version of a Super Star Destroyer, but that the dominion built this up as well as enlarging their tourman and dropship fleet as well as maintaining their current fleet and the like speaks a great deal about the raw industrial power the Dominion has at its beck and call.

ColBosch · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 October 2015, 08:00:05 »

Here's a question: 20 collars and 10 ARTS small craft bays. What mix of DropShips and small craft would you take with this beast? Remember that it still has 60 fighters onboard. The text suggests that eight Aesir, three Aqueduct, and three Mammoth DropShips will be a standard complement, but that leaves a half-dozen collars and the craft bays open.

...by the way, eight Aesirs would give the Leviathan III 300 fighters, nearly a Galaxy of just aerospace fighters. I suspect this behemoth is meant, at least partially, as a Castrum-killer.

Phobos · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 October 2015, 08:15:36 »

Quote from: ColBosch on 24 October 2015, 08:00:05

...by the way, eight Aesirs would give the Leviathan III 300 fighters, nearly a Galaxy of just aerospace fighters. I suspect this behemoth is meant, at least partially, as a Castrum-killer.

With that many fighters, let alone if you field the whole Aesir capacity of 20 plus ASF complement, it is not a Castrum-killer, it is just a killer. It won't care what stands in its path as destruction is assured either way.

TBH, unless we see the HW Clans return in full strength and with whole squadrons of Leviathan Primes, this unit is a little boring as it is completely undisputed in the current setting. To make things worse, the only units able to challenge the Bears' new Levi 3, are their own Levi 2s... #P

marauder648 · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 October 2015, 08:29:50 »

Probably see a mix of Asir and Vanir's as well as Nagismaioakrm..wnn...the Sharkfoxes one thats as fast as an interceptor who's name I can't remember, many Clan RAC-5's.

Jellico · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 October 2015, 09:36:12 »

Everything has a cost.
A Leviathan III TF is about 2 Galaxies in strength. That's 2 conventional Galaxies that don't exist elsewhere.
By extension you don't expect to defeat 2 Galaxies with a Cluster's worth of force so plan accordingly.

As for boredom. Yes. That is kind of the point. This thing is basically unplayable at less than a strategic game because it is a strategic asset.

At least unlike a McKenna or Leviathan II it has the option to divide its force and allow sensible games.

Again I repeat. This is two Galaxies of force. It is not a Battlemech and you can't treat it like one.

The above also applies to Castrums. You throw a Castrum TF at the Bears and they send a couple of Aesir Stars (look them up in FM3145) back at it. It is all about recognizing the force balances at this level.

As for a loadout...

I always figured 8 Aesir, 5 Nagasawa, 4 Vanir, and 3 supply ships rotating in and out as convoys arrived.

ColBosch · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 October 2015, 09:39:38 »

Yeah, gameplay-wise, I figure taking one of these in a regular game is like bringing a carrier battle group to a session of Squad Leader. O0

marauder648 · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 October 2015, 09:47:48 »

Oh indeed, i'd not expect to see something like a Leviathan III unless it was a scenario for a HUGE battle and you can bet that the Levi would not be alone either, its valuable enough for the Bears to put another Warship with it as an escort.

A Leviathan III with a full compliment of dropships and ASF would also be damn near uncontrollable in a game unless you had about 4 - 5 players with the Leviathan and its dropships and fighters.

Really i'd say that she's simply not usable in game terms. But as a fluff piece she's great and a most welcome addition, she works as that, a piece of the universe, a part of the plot, possibly even a plot device if the Republic does something to her and her yards and then pins the blame on someone else...

Jellico · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 October 2015, 12:42:06 »

So rather than OMGing about it. How is the II and III different suggesting what the Bears consider improvements?

I am Belch II · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 October 2015, 12:51:29 »

Its a great ship. Its better then a Lev 2, not by much. Its hard to make that ship better.

marauder648 · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 October 2015, 12:56:18 »

Quote from: Jellico on 24 October 2015, 12:42:06

So rather than OMGing about it. How is the II and III different suggesting what the Bears consider improvements?

Main improvements seem to be in close to mid range defence against small ships, the armour is mad, but I assume that the lev II had that level of protection too. Its not revolutionary but is very evolutionary and quite logical.

Alexander Knight · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 October 2015, 13:07:55 »

Much lower requirement on manned ASF indicates the Bears realize that tying down a short Galaxy of aerospace pilots to a single deployment platform is excessively wasteful. Moving to a dropship-based parasite complement increases deployment options, and the use of ARTS bays shows the beginnings of an attempt to overcome personnel shortages.

Maingunnery · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 October 2015, 13:27:48 »

Quote from: I am Belch II on 24 October 2015, 12:51:29

Its a great ship. Its better then a Lev 2, not by much. Its hard to make that ship better.

Well I wished they had replaced the Gauss Rifles and the various Medium Lasers with some HAG-40s. :'(

solmanian · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 October 2015, 14:57:45 »

Well, the fluff says that the Bears built it as part of a doctrine of Warships being critical as orbital bombardment platform during planetary assault. This is very different than the traditional doctrine of Warship as the ultimate tool of space supremacy, giving way PWSs.

Jellico · « **Reply #20 on:** 24 October 2015, 15:19:12 »

The quote is orbital supremacy not bombardment. Key difference. A battleship will bash in the door when nothing else will.

Quote from: marauder648 on 24 October 2015, 12:56:18

Main improvements seem to be in close to mid range defence against small ships, the armour is mad, but I assume that the lev II had that level of protection too. Its not revolutionary but is very evolutionary and quite logical.

Well then you missed the improved bracketing NACs, standardized Naval Gauss and streamlined weight saving NPPCs. Also the doubling of the RoF of the AR10s.

Also the new armour type.

Quote from: Alexander Knight on 24 October 2015, 13:07:55

Much lower requirement on manned ASF indicates the Bears realize that tying down a short Galaxy of aerospace pilots to a single deployment platform is excessively wasteful. Moving to a dropship-based parasite complement increases deployment options, and the use of ARTS bays shows the beginnings of an attempt to overcome personnel shortages.

Very true. Note ARTS is very heavy and can't do a good a job as an astech so it is not used in the fighter bays.
Also using DropShips moves some of the responsibility for supporting the ASF to to DropShips cargo bay.

Quote from: Maingunnery on 24 October 2015, 13:27:48

Well I wished they had replaced the Gauss Rifles and the various Medium Lasers with some HAG-40s. :'(

It is an evolution of an existing design (and art) so there are limits. Medium Lasers are weight efficient and engage beyond effective Alamo range. Gauss do solid slug in a world of Reflective ASF. There is no flak bonus in space.
I know where you are going with the HAGs but on a refit it is usually good form to retain existing themes.

I am Belch II · « **Reply #21 on:** 24 October 2015, 15:31:02 »

I like the cost of the ship on the record sheet.

Kojak · « **Reply #22 on:** 24 October 2015, 15:40:09 »

Regarding ARTS: do the Bears even have any drone fighters they could use with this? None are coming to mind.

Maingunnery · « **Reply #23 on:** 24 October 2015, 15:59:25 »

Quote from: Jellico on 24 October 2015, 15:19:12

It is an evolution of an existing design (and art) so there are limits. Medium Lasers are weight efficient and engage beyond effective Alamo range. Gauss do solid slug in a world of Reflective ASF. There is no flak bonus in space.
I know where you are going with the HAGs but on a refit it is usually good form to retain existing themes.

Are you sure about no flak bonus in space?

DarthRads · « **Reply #24 on:** 24 October 2015, 16:04:00 »

Quote from: Jellico on 24 October 2015, 15:19:12

Also the new armour type.

Okay...now you've piqued my interest...

Jellico · « **Reply #25 on:** 24 October 2015, 16:29:18 »

Quote from: Maingunnery on 24 October 2015, 15:59:25

Are you sure about no flak bonus in space?

I would have to double check. It was bouncing around a few months back and I can't remember where it settled. The ship is over a year old.

Quote from: DarthRads on 24 October 2015, 16:04:00

Okay...now you've piqued my interest...

No I haven't. It has just gone from FC to FLC.

Quote from: Kojak on 24 October 2015, 15:40:09

Regarding ARTS: do the Bears even have any drone fighters they could use with this? None are coming to mind.

ARTS just automates the bays and basic maintenance. No drones necessary.

Kojak · « **Reply #26 on:** 24 October 2015, 16:48:41 »

Quote from: Jellico on 24 October 2015, 16:29:18

ARTS just automates the bays and basic maintenance. No drones necessary.

Oh, interesting. Well, that makes it considerably more useful, then.

jimdigris · « **Reply #27 on:** 24 October 2015, 16:53:10 »

Where is Weirdo? I would have thought that he would have sensed this disturbance in the Force by now. ???

Stormlion1 · « **Reply #28 on:** 24 October 2015, 17:00:52 »

I just looked at this and all I have to say is if this doesn't spark the various Successor States and even the other Clans to restarting warship development and construction then nothing will. Because its a beast and I don't care what anyone says but it will pop PWS's like balloons.

Liam's Ghost · « **Reply #29 on:** 24 October 2015, 17:08:52 »

The successor states are a bit busy either trying not to die, eating their neighbors, or coming back to life. A counter would definitely be on the agenda, but it might be drowned by immediate threats.