Machine Guns

[Tyler Jorgensson]

So I picked up a Piranha and need to know how to use MG's. Most of the time I've just dumped ammo when I have mechs with then.

Ignore my lack of brain cells at the moment: how much ammo do they use per firing?Then their is the optional rule about Rapid Fire mode that I wasn't sure about.

Any and all help: thanks.

[Sartris]

one ammo expended per shot per machine gun. a full ton explodes for 400 damage making it one of the most potent forces in the BTU

rapid fire rules are on TO pg 102

roll 1d6, do that amount of damage, gain that much heat, expends damage inflicted x3 ammo.

[Empyrus]

Normal rules: 1 per shot. Meaning a ton of MG ammo is enough for 200 shots for one MG. Way too much.

Rapid fire rules: As many shots as the dice show. So, you roll 6, you used six shots but the drawback is that you also generate heat.
EDIT Wait, it wasn't as many ammo as dice showed but actually far more?

*opens TO*

EDIT Right, Sartris is correct here. Though it should be noted that under RF rules, MGs MUST be used in RF mode the whole game if they're set to use those rules, decide before game for each MG.

[Cannonshop]

one shot per gun unless you're using optional rules, each shot does 2 damage for basic MG's, 1 damage for lights, or 3 for Heavies.

the range brackets for Lights are a little longer than basics, and Heavies are ridiculously short. (1 hex medium, 2 hexes long).

Basic Machine guns range: 1/2/3 like 3025 small lasers.  Lights double it, Heavies lose the short LONG range bracket except against targets inside the same hex entirely.


(edited.)




Each 'shot' in an ammo explosion does this:

Lights: 1 point
Machine Gun: 2 points
Heavy Machine Gun:3 points.


none of them generate heat.

vs. infantry, the basic rule is that you multiply 1d6 per standard point of damage. 

Light: 1D6 vs. unarmored infantry
Machine Gun: 2D6 vs Unarmored Infantry
Heavy Machine gun: 3 D6 vs Unarmored infantry.

Inner Sphere weight:

Light MG: .5 tons
MG: .5 tons
HMG: 1 ton

Clan Weight:

Light: .25 Tons
MG: .25 tons
HMG: .75 tons.

[Alsadius]

Also, if you're facing conventional infantry they do bonus damage. Instead of 2 damage from a regular MG, they do 2d6. (And it's not reduced like most weapons are vs infantry).

In 3025 they're decent as low-heat guns, because ranges are usually so short. Once you get advanced tech they get pretty weak, but they're still good vs infantry.

[Kovax]

Note that as a 0.5 ton zero heat weapon, installing multiples pay off big time, all using the same ammo bin.  Punch holes with a big gun, then refill them with lots of little bits of lead in the same firing phase.  Critical hits galore.  A Large Laser or PPC and several MGs is a nice combination against most light and many medium targets.  The TDR is a good example of such a design, as is the PXH.

[Empyrus]

Neither the Thunderbolt nor Phoenix Hawk feature many MGs, only two. That is not really impressive. Slap a couple of flamers in their place, like that one introtech Warhammer variant does, for anti-infantry work or extra firepower as needed, despite the extra heat.

Now, the Piranha works, as does the Joust tank, which has 8 LMGs and half a ton of ammo (ie 12.5 rounds of fire per gun). That is effective use of MGs.

[garhkal]

Note that as a 0.5 ton zero heat weapon, installing multiples pay off big time, all using the same ammo bin.  Punch holes with a big gun, then refill them with lots of little bits of lead in the same firing phase.  Critical hits galore.  A Large Laser or PPC and several MGs is a nice combination against most light and many medium targets.  The TDR is a good example of such a design, as is the PXH.

Yup.  Even just putting 4 on, with half a ton of ammo, gives you 8 damage, for 2.5 tons (though 5 crits), and you gain 25 shots per MG..
Though if i am going that route, i much prefer doing 5 MGs.

[Empyrus]

While 3 tons nets you up to 10 damage with MGs, the same weight can buy you one SRM-4 with up to 8 damage across four clusters with triple the range. OK, there is heat, but the range increase is significant enough to off-set the heat.
Alternatively, three tons can be used for 6 Small Lasers, for up to 12 damage for the same range as the MGs. This time the heat cost is worth considering, on the other hand, the MG ammo is explosive and it is unlikely you'll use more than half of the ammo.
Yet another alternative is 3 Medium Lasers, for up to 15 damage with triple the range.

Don't get me wrong, MGs have their uses. But unless you're expecting to fight infantry and collateral damage is not acceptable (ie no flamers), then MGs are not exactly a great choice.

[truetanker]

Slap a couple of flamers in their place, like that one introtech Warhammer variant does, for anti-infantry work or extra firepower as needed, despite the extra heat.

You mean the Hothammer or Liao Warhammer?

Yeah that's a beast anyday!

TT

[Empyrus]

Yeah, that.

It is a good upgrade. Cappies should've upgraded their Thunderbolts and BattleMasters with flamers as well.

[lucho]

Machine Gun arrays are where it's at  8) :thumbsup:

[Empyrus]

MG Arrays don't make MGs better necessarily. They tie them to one to-hit roll. Useful way to generate a lot of hits or crits to single location, but at the same time it is all or nothing.

At least they can be turned off, so they mostly add an option. But i figure that i'd usually just opt for extra MG over the array itself.

[truetanker]

Yeah use a Hothammer, a pair of Crusader-8Ls and a Raven-SS with 2 Squads of Fa Shih support LGR variant.

Evil, evil, evil... bad and horrid actions galore!

TT

[Kit deSummersville]

Heavies are ridiculously short. (1 hex medium, 2 hexes long).
Heavies lose the short range except against targets inside the same hex.

That isn’t true. HMGs have a short range of 1, medium of 2 and no long range (1/2/-)
per TW.

[Empyrus]

It is the BA Bearhunter that has ranges 0/1/2 IIRC.

[Sartris]

It is the BA Bearhunter that has ranges 0/1/2 IIRC.

that's the one. non-infantry units can't make weapon attacks against units in the hex they occupy - just physical attacks (usually relegated to kicks because it's the only attack that can hit the majority of units that share a hex with a mech)

[truetanker]

that's the one. non-infantry units can't make weapon attacks against units in the hex they occupy - just physical attacks (usually relegated to kicks because it's the only attack that can hit the majority of units that share a hex with a mech)

We've had this discussion before... you have to displace the unit before it can legally occupy the hex. Otherwise, the hex in question is " tactically " occupied! Only Infantry can swarm over an occupied hex.

NON player aligned units can not enter hex, only player units can. This rule goes way back to Battledroids.

I know, I have every rule book made for Battletech, including all current boxsets and Battletroops! Not to mention my mini fetish...

And this isn't a flame war, I'm done.
TT

[Sartris]

We've had this discussion before... you have to displace the unit before it can legally occupy the hex. Otherwise, the hex in question is " tactically " occupied! Only Infantry can swarm over an occupied hex.

ok

[Cannonshop]

That isn’t true. HMGs have a short range of 1, medium of 2 and no long range (1/2/-)
per TW.

good catch.

[glitterboy2098]

It is a good upgrade. Cappies should've upgraded their Thunderbolts and BattleMasters with flamers as well.

i'm not sure if they ever had all that many of the latter for it to matter, and for the former, if they did that, how would the Thud's perform their oppression'Peacekeeping' duties? Rubber bullets are so handy for that.

[Kit deSummersville]

good catch.

I would have preferred it be a tuna. Those are tastier than rules.

[Kovax]

Neither the Thunderbolt nor Phoenix Hawk feature many MGs, only two. That is not really impressive. Slap a couple of flamers in their place, like that one introtech Warhammer variant does, for anti-infantry work or extra firepower as needed, despite the extra heat.

Not impressive, but a nice supplement to the existing battery of lasers.  Replace those MGs and ammo with 2 Flamers and you've got the same damage capability, but now you're generating 6 more heat, and have to choose between overheating or leaving out a weapon.  I'll generally take the heat-free MGs in that situation, although there are cases where being able to deliver 2 points of heat could be more useful.  With the TDR, I'll load Inferno ammo for the SRMs to overheat adversaries, and use the MGs for crit-seeking or PBI-hunting.  When fielding the PXH, I'll bring a friend in a FS to the party, with both MGs and Flamers.  The Flamers are more effective against infantry, but I'll take the MGs for fighting a mix of targets.

[Cannonshop]

I would have preferred it be a tuna. Those are tastier than rules.

to catch the tuna, you have to get on a BOAT. (ewwww)

[Alsadius]

I don't have my TW handy, but I thought MGs and Flamers did identical damage to infantry. Everyone here is saying flamers are better. Am I forgetting something?

[Sartris]

Machine guns deal 2D6 damage to infantry platoons. Flamers do 4D6

If you weren’t aware, weapon damage vs infantry changed in TW

[Sartris]

Just to clarify so we don't have to have go around the bush on this one again (and to avoid confusing others)

We've had this discussion before... you have to displace the unit before it can legally occupy the hex. Otherwise, the hex in question is " tactically " occupied! Only Infantry can swarm over an occupied hex.

nope: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=61077.msg1401306#msg1401306

I should note the phrase "'tactically' occupied" has never, to my knowledge, appeared in relation to stacking in any rulebook I've read.

NON player aligned units can not enter hex, only player units can. This rule goes way back to Battledroids.

I'm not going to dig out my own battledroids rulebook, but to confirm that the current stacking rules have been in place since 1987: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=61077.msg1401330#msg1401330

I know, I have every rule book made for Battletech, including all current boxsets and Battletroops! Not to mention my mini fetish...

You're http://puu.sh/A2t5v/cde35bfe7f.png
Not http://puu.sh/A2t7k/4bad03ae21.png
The http://puu.sh/A2t83/b3fd6d1c83.png
Only http://puu.sh/A2t8Q/fd61fcc103.png
One http://puu.sh/A2t9e/fa9fb39d40.png


So to the point of machine guns, they can't fire on units in the same hex, unless mounted on Battle Armor.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Okay... wow guys thanks for the quick responses and what not helpful solutions to massively obliterating infantry legions.