Do you let Elementals pre-board OMNIs before the OMNI walks onto the table?

[darkdaysdawn]

In your Alpha Strike games (or TW, for that matter), do you let Elementals pre-board OMNI Mechs before the OMNI Mech walks onto the table?

If yes, does saying "these Elementals board this Mech" count as a Move in the Movement Phase?  i.e. Move 1:  Elementals board the Mech that isn't on the table yet.  Move 2:  Mech walks onto the table with Elementals already onboard.  Or, do you consider boarding the Mech to have happened before the game started, i.e. Move 1:  Mech walks onto the table with Elementals already onboard?

Our group has found that this is very significant as it means that moving a Supernova onto the table takes either 5 or 10 "moves", which is a big deal.  If it's 5 moves, the other player will have to double move far more often.

We have been playing it as if the Elementals boarded the Mech before the game started, so it's only 1 Move to walk both units onto the table.  Otherwise, any Mech expecting to carry Elementals has to stop within the first 6" of the map else leave behind the Elementals.  And it also means 1 whole round of not much happening.

[pokefan548]

Absolutely. Feels more natural fluff-wise and speeds up the game gameplay-wise.

[Charistoph]

Consider the Infantry Mounted or Dismounted as declared by the owner with the start of the game.  It does not require any additional considerations for the game's start.

[paladin2019]

Yes, absolutely, just like conventional infantry and their carriers. And units mounted in/on other units don't have a place in the initiative order until the round after they dismount at the end of their carrier's movement.

[Colt Ward]

Consider the Infantry Mounted or Dismounted as declared by the owner with the start of the game.  It does not require any additional considerations for the game's start.

This in TW, pretty sure it is standard.  It is part of why, after someone mentioned a rule, I love VTOL & JJ BA for moving to take the center of the map . . . fast VTOL zips to the middle and the BA with JJ unload.  The BA are on Turn 2 are sitting around the middle of the map ready to leap forward, the VTOL spins about and flanks back to my deployment edge, lands and prepares to pick up the next BA is loaded.  Turn 3, the VTOL with BA loaded lifts off and races to the center of the map.  While I prefer this BA also be jump capable, this might be a heavier BA- last time I did this, it was when I loaded Grenadiers.

But it works with Omnis too- that is why the Bears had the Fire Moth as a BA carrier, the ability of 19 MPs and unload BA would let a Ghost Bear player position a Elemental point on/near critical terrain.  Same follows with the Viper due to jumping and later Wulfen.

[Go For The Throat]

I cannot think of a reason to dismount BA/PBI between my base/LZ and the combat zone, except narrative concerns (checking for mines/traps, scouting, seizing objectives that only they could take or that I would not want to waste a larger unit on, etc…) or initiative sinking.

[Charistoph]

Rear guard would be another reason, but that's the only other reason I can think of.

Dropping them off before they can engage is also a good idea so that when they are dropped they aren't sitting naked with a 0 TMM.

[Go For The Throat]

Rear guard would be another reason, but that's the only other reason I can think of.

Dropping them off before they can engage is also a good idea so that when they are dropped they aren't sitting naked with a 0 TMM.

I would be hesitant to use BA for rearguard actions. While I would rather lose a squad of BA instead of a ‘Mech, I worry about their limited range (model dependent) and movement making them less effective and more easily avoidable.

Also very true, but can be difficult depending on the terrain.

[worktroll]

Sometimes BA are best considered "mobile minefields" in defense. BA squads can block enemy movement; you can usually crush them relatively quickly, but you're wasting time and firepower doing so. Ignore them, and you can end up taking damage.

[Colt Ward]

BA squads can block enemy movement

Infantry does not block movement since TW.

[Charistoph]

I would be hesitant to use BA for rearguard actions. While I would rather lose a squad of BA instead of a ‘Mech, I worry about their limited range (model dependent) and movement making them less effective and more easily avoidable.

As with any tactic, it depends on the scenario, terrain, and enemy force.  Usually the idea is to put Infantry in places where your enemy wants to be to make it less desirable for them to be there.

Infantry does not block movement since TW.

Block movement as in be a unit which can cause havoc to you if you wander too close to it.

[Go For The Throat]

As with any tactic, it depends on the scenario, terrain, and enemy force.  Usually the idea is to put Infantry in places where your enemy wants to be to make it less desirable for them to be there.

Of course, that is a very common use for BA. I was thinking about it from the perspective of the initially mentioned “rearguard” perspective. Most of my BA experience comes from the Clan Invasion & Civil War eras where BA have SRMs and/or “insert weapon with a typically three hex range here”. Due to that, my thought process immediately went to the BA already being damaged/not at full strength and having already expended their SRMs. That would give them a much smaller three-six hex threat bubble. While that does not leave them defenseless, it does provide ample opportunity to ignore them with fast enough units while heavier/slower units can take care of them.

[Failure16]

Block movement as in be a unit which can cause havoc to you if you wander too close to it.

'Hinder' movement is the term you are looking for.

[Charistoph]

Of course, that is a very common use for BA. I was thinking about it from the perspective of the initially mentioned “rearguard” perspective. Most of my BA experience comes from the Clan Invasion & Civil War eras where BA have SRMs and/or “insert weapon with a typically three hex range here”. Due to that, my thought process immediately went to the BA already being damaged/not at full strength and having already expended their SRMs. That would give them a much smaller three-six hex threat bubble. While that does not leave them defenseless, it does provide ample opportunity to ignore them with fast enough units while heavier/slower units can take care of them.

And this discussion is about what to do at the start of the game.  If your enemy's goal is in your deployment area, having the Infantry start there is one notable strategy.

'Hinder' movement is the term you are looking for.

Depends on the attitude of the opponent.  A Pawn can block the movement of a Queen just by threatening to take her if she moves in to the wrong spot.  It doesn't stop the player from moving her there, but a wise player will consider that spot "blocked".

[Colt Ward]

Depends on the attitude of the opponent.  A Pawn can block the movement of a Queen just by threatening to take her if she moves in to the wrong spot.  It doesn't stop the player from moving her there, but a wise player will consider that spot "blocked".

BT does not have that OSK dynamic, and OTHER unit types CAN block movement while as stated, infantry used to be able to do it.

Having had a Timber Wolf get trapped- all 6 surrounding hexes occupied by enemy units- by playing a star against two light mech lances and a company of light vehicles . . . that is blocking.

[Charistoph]

BT does not have that OSK dynamic, and OTHER unit types CAN block movement while as stated, infantry used to be able to do it.

I am aware, but a Pawn isn't actually blocking that space the Queen is looking to go in to, just can affect it after the move.  So, too, Infantry can be in place to mess up a unit if they get too close, like Spotting, for example.

So, again, not a literal blocking of movement, just providing a presence one might want to avoid.

[Sartris]

In your Alpha Strike games (or TW, for that matter), do you let Elementals pre-board OMNI Mechs before the OMNI Mech walks onto the table?

yes

[Failure16]

I am aware, but a Pawn isn't actually blocking that space the Queen is looking to go in to, just can affect it after the move.  So, too, Infantry can be in place to mess up a unit if they get too close, like Spotting, for example.

So, again, not a literal blocking of movement, just providing a presence one might want to avoid.

If you affect something, you are hindering it. If you prevent something, you are blocking it. Besides, the pawn only affects the queen's movement if she ends her move in the requisite space. She is being hindered, not stopped.

In any event, of course Elementals or other elements should be able to be aboard others as the rules allow unless a scenario explicitly states otherwise during the setup instructions.

There are other games that require infantry to be mounted at the start of a game (e.g. the Slammerverse The Crucible), which I have always thought should be scenario-dependent/up to the controlling player. For example, if I am playing a deliberate defense, why should I have to spend the first turn dismounting my infantry? Or, if I am playing a chase, mounting them? You understand.

[Hellraiser]

'Hinder' movement is the term you are looking for.

I'd go with "Deter" myself

Because a squad of Grenadiers might not Block me, or even Hinder me if I'm fast enough, BUT,  they most surely will deter me going in that direction if I'm NOT fast enough. ;)

[Hellraiser]

As for the OP question........ Mounted or Dismounted is always at the player's discretion at our table & must be decided before the first Turn so Initiative Order works correctly.