Monbvol's House rule emporium

[Jackmc]

The way Liam's Ghost does it is Tactics up to Leadership is applied as a bonus

Yeah, that's how it worked in MW3ed/CBTrpg.

You mentioned that you think the rules are a mess.  Personally, I don't think it's a mess at all.  The core rule is dirt simple: higher results go first unless they hold their action.  The complexity comes from the optional tool kit that trades a bit of realism and freedom for speed of play and ease of tracking when working with mass combats.  If I were to house rule it at all, it'd be to allow Tactics to be used at the individual level.  Other than that I think the individual and squad levels are simple and usable for the vast majority of engagements at the RPG scale (ie afv company/infantry squad level at most).  If I'm going to go for true mass combat, I'd use something that meshed more seamlessly with BF.  YMMV, and that's what makes this online communitty so awesome.  Screw groupthink!  O0



-Jackmc 

[monbvol]

The biggest mess has been the ambiguity of the rules of what skills apply and when for determining Initiative.

Considering the whole thing is still pending for clarification(see this thread for reference) a temporary, if not a permanent one, house rule seems in order.

[monbvol]

Lately my thoughts have been turning back to the matter of Custom Vehicle and Design Quirks.

As much as I have already made an attempt at fixing Custom Vehicle it just doesn't sit with me as well as it should.  I am seriously considering dropping it as a trait all together but rolling the effects into my new trait Status, and maybe Connections as well.  I'm still working it out.

Design Quirks I'd just love a better approach to.  The benefits and draw backs they provide are fine.  I'd love to not have to ensure all designs are zero sum affairs is the main problem but I'm not sure how to do that in a fair manner.  Plus I have started seriously considering printing out the design quirks from StratOps to include in my character creation binder.  I know it isn't fair to blame Catalyst for not repeating them in AToW due to page count issues but something better than referring players to a whole other book to see how they are supposed to work would do wonders I think.  Maybe as a PDF exclusive as a quick add on to AToW repeat the information in the AToW PDF version.  Or at least as a companion piece for very low cost.

[Jackmc]

Design Quirks I'd just love a better approach to.  The benefits and draw backs they provide are fine.  I'd love to not have to ensure all designs are zero sum affairs is the main problem but I'm not sure how to do that in a fair manner.

I personally would take the route that GURPS Vehicles did.  At design time, roll an engineering check at a pretty steep penalty:  Success yields a prototype with a small number of minor defects and a critcal success yields a bonus trait.  Failure yields a design with a moderate number of minor flaws and crit failrue brings in a major flaw.  You can then attempt to debug the prototype with successive rolls each of which is a little less difficult.

I'd take that basic mechanic and figure out how I wanted to work the levels of traits into categories, maybe minor =1 point, regualr = 2 poitners and critcal successes/Flaws are the three pointers. 

For used mechs, I'd make a design roll with a modifier based upon the quality level of the mech, and then assign Traits as appropriate.

-Jackmc           

[monbvol]

Not terrible but it still kind of feels lacking.  One of the big problems I see with Design Quirks is when characters have an occasion to change vehicles.  Near as I can tell the way it is supposed to work now is that whenever a character has a chance to change vehicles the new vehicle has potentially different design quirks but works out to be the same balance as what the character has.  Problem is I may have to go with it.  It does sort of give me an idea for how to handle the upper limit of Custom Vehicle.  If you invest enough to design your own vehicle it automatically gets the Prototype design quirk.

[monbvol]

You know I never really realized how many people are reading this thread.

With the release of Solaris Armor Works(included in the download for the latest version of Skunk Works, google is your friend) I've been translating my vehicle archive to a modern editor that has the added bonus of letting me apply my weapon stat changes.  Plus one that lets me do WiGE is letting me expand a bit too.

I have also decided that for now I'll keep Custom Vehicle and Design Quirk as I already have them.

Enough of that though.  It is about time for me to start off on another tangent.

One of the things that has bothered me since the beginning but I haven't really found a way to address yet is a decent way to handle large crewed vehicles and if the players want their character to be a member of said crew.  The biggest problem with it I've had in the past is the crew requirements often mean the complication of a lot more recurring NPCs and figuring out the command structure.

But it has hit me lately I do sort of have a way to handle this already.  My Status trait.  Using the People subset as the vehicle crew nets a nice easy way to represent the character's authority over the crew and neatly deals with quality of training issues.

"But monbvol, what if the character isn't the vehicle commander or the players want to share a vehicle?"

Mostly ahead of you on this one.  I'll cover the second half first since it is actually the easier one to actually frame with actual game rules.

The only fair way to keep things sane for more than one player having the same vehicle is to have each character pay full cost for the Vehicle, but here is where it gets tricky.  All characters really should be from the same faction for simplicity but if they aren't, oh well.  They're the ones who'll have to balance the XP.

No matter what all pay the appropriate Custom Vehicle cost to choose the Vehicle.  It is the fairest way really.  No recriminations about who rolls or one character basically getting free trait points.

Next is co-ownership.  If all want to own it, that part is easy, they all pay the extra 200 XP for Owns Vehicle.  If one wants to own but not the others that's fine.  Some of this just isn't going to balance no matter what since there will always be a way to dodge at least some of these costs.

Let Status sort out the chain of command of the crew.  In case of ties look at who has wound up with what skills and do your best to divide up the tasks according to the character's strengths.  Warning this could get ugly really fast as it becomes quite possible for some weapons on the vehicle to have uneven target numbers.  This can be handled two ways.  Be fine with it or making sure all the people who wind up with Gunnery responsibilities have the same total skill levels.

Now we roll back to what if the character isn't the owner/commander of the vehicle.  This really depends on what kind of campaign you are running.  For the most part it works the same as if the character is part of a NPC run unit.  If there is little tactical combat it shouldn't be too much of an issue.  If there is, oh my.  That could be an entire thread in it's own right answering that one.

[Deathknight69]

Real quick Monbvol, Where do we find all this neat stuff you've built into this thread???

[monbvol]

Unfortunately all the links to my electronic materials are dead because the site I was using wound up having a great deal of legal troubles.

Though it occurs to me that I've been overlooking a solution I could easily implement.  I'll put the links in the first post for clarity/ease of finding.

Googledocs should be right workable.

[monbvol]

Well there may be some formating errors but the Googledocs links are in the first post of this thread.  I think I've got all the main stuff.

[monbvol]

*memo to self: Need to update Intensive Training in the Electronic Document.  Also update special abilities and natural aptitude limits since I've decided to change those since writing the document.

A recent question to the writers has reminded me I may need to get back to work on adding more special abilities for tiered skills.  Martial Arts and Melee Weapons I already have plenty for.  The rest I will have to start thinking on a bit.

[monbvol]

I suppose time for another update.

I hate to admit it but I think I'm actually rather stumped for more Special Abilities.

I have also finished recreating the last of my vehicle archive for my AU.  I'll admit I just got lazy and started letting SAW allocate the armor how it liked after a while but in general I like the overall results.  Though I have reworked a few and I need to fix the RATs I posted.

Because of how I've divided them up that doesn't count the VTOLs, WiGes, or any Blue Water designs though.  Though that will be a most interesting twist. WiGes didn't exist when I first came up with this AU and I kind of like them but not having an editor for them until now I never got around to designing any.  I expect I may be spending most of my effort on this for the next while.

[monbvol]

I finally figured out another Special Ability.  I'm considering making sub versions that apply the bonus but only to one particular skill.

Master of Improvisation
Cost-100 XP
Requirements: Int 6+, Interest/Biology 4+, Interest/Botany 4+, Science/Chemistry 4+, Demolitions 4+, Technician/Any 4+, Survival 4+, and the character must have a roll of duct tape and a swiss army knife/multitool on them at all times.

The character with this special ability is well versed at using things for purposes other than their original intent that they ignore any penalties to any Demolitions, Technician, Medtech, Surgery, or Survival rolls for lacking proper tools.

[monbvol]

I got to thinking.  I know.  How dangerous is that? :D

Anyway one of the things I've always found lacking for Ultra Autocannons is how let down they are by that 2 column on the Cluster Hits table and how rarely I get that second shell to land for it.  Then I realized there is sort of an answer.  Use the HAG modifiers.  +2 to Cluster Hit roll at Short Range and -2 at Long.  For the purposes of C3 the modifier to cluster hit is always based on the actual distance between firing unit and target.

[Tslammer]

We use margin of success formula to add to the cluster hit table for missiles, LBX and Ultra autocannons.
That way if you roll a lot higher than what you needed you get to add a small bonus to the roll.

Makes missile boats more attractive.

[monbvol]

I've not had as many troubles with Missiles because they have ways to get bonuses.

Though you have given me a naughty idea that I may toy around with.

Edge attribute modifier as a bonus/penalty to the Cluster Hits roll.

I'll try out MoS/5 round down as a bonus as well.

Another nice little bonus because I want to help Ultras and Rotary jam rates:

If the To Hit roll would normally result in a jam make an Edge check.  Success means no jam.  Failure means jam as normal.

[monbvol]

To expand on my previous thought further I will apply those modifiers to Missile clusters as well.

Something else has occurred to me.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned for my AU that Mechs, ASFs, and anything else I missed over 20 tons always has a minimum of a second crewman, better known as a Guy In Back or Just Another Freaking Observer.

This is mostly for RPG purposes because I've been looking at how easy it would be to skill lock the primary pilot into not actually taking combat actions because they've used up all their actions on other skill rolls.

Any way I do realize I need to address the implications of this system and probably should put down in writing some anti-munchkinism rules.

When using BV2.0 to balance the final total Piloting and Gunnery score of the two warriors is used.  For example one warrior is a 1 Gunnery and 8 Piloting and the other is a 8 Gunnery and 1 piloting the final BV2.0 modifier would be as if for a 1/1 warrior.

Whenever pilot damage happens both pilots take the same damage.  When abstracting with Total Warfare instead of A Time of War both pilots use the same conciousness roll as well.

Now back to the AToW focused stuff.

Since the main intent is to shove some of the work load off of the combat warrior and onto the Guy in Back the main advantage is just to have basically double actions.

As such the main draw back for not having this second warrior will be potentially suffering poor conditions due to having to pick and choose which skills to use and when.

[monbvol]

I've been fleshing out designs a bit and working out how units would actually appear if going all the way down to squad detail.

The usefulness of it will make for a nice adhoc encounter resource.

Some things I know I'm going to depart from TechManual/TacOps for unit construction:

Field Guns will pretty universally have reduced crew requirements as I see no reason to establish a 1 crew per ton ratio.  A few instances may see increased crew requirements of a sorts for simplicity's sake.

Medics will not have a limit in my AU simply because they are not marked and often carry weapons.

Likewise I see no reason beyond cost considerations to limit the number of Support Weapons beyond manpower requirements.

PBIs will often be deployed in Squad size(10-16 guys), possibly even Team size(4-6 guys).

[monbvol]

Well folks glad to see so many of you are still reading this.  Been a long time since I've had a thread with so many views.

I don't have much for you guys and gals any more unfortunately.  I'm pretty well at a point where I need to put these rules through game situations to see how well they work and with MM being rather unfriendly to house rules and my group wanting to go other directions currently I haven't really gotten to try them out.

If anybody has tried some of these out in game I would not mind hearing about how it went for your group.

[monbvol]

Nothing?

Well I guess I'll be waiting a while then since my group seems intent on going other directions for the foreseeable future.

[skiltao]

Well, I've been following your ideas mainly with an eye towards borrowing them for other systems. I've long been of the opinion that the TW/TM/TO infantry rules, as well as aToW, need to be reworked from the ground up and I have no intention of ever playing anything built around their current rules.

*shrug*

I hope your group's other directions are sufficiently interesting for you in your meantime.

[monbvol]

Yeah it seems every step forward with PBIs for Battletech also comes with a step to the side and two backwards.

Our group is likely to get a Mekton Zeta game going next time we get together.  Or continue my White Wolf campaign.  Or go a completely different direction.  We're flighty in that way.

[Maelwys]

Well, under Excel, the Phenotype is still showing up as 0's rather than a specific type.

Also, if I select just "Trueborn Sibko" its giving me points towards things like "Gunnery/Space" which seems..unusual to say the least (Although I suppose that could be one of your home built ones, since there are also specific Sibkos).

And not sure if this is my problem or the sheet, but certain Clans (Hell's Horses among them) that can take the Freeborn Sibko (Cavalry/Infantry) instead of the Clan Washout option, but that doesn't seem selectable.

AS for House rules, I'm still thinking that if your faction matches that of a piece of equipment, you should get a -1 to the availability, at the very least :)

[monbvol]

*curses and mutters*

Well as far as my spreadsheet goes it is entirely possible some data entry errors do exists giving incorrect skills for certain modules and fields.  I'll have to take a look to see if this is the case or if M$ Office is doing something goofy still.

Phenotypes I probably did just miss in my last round of corrections.

I'm assuming you mean I'm missing something in the Caste structure rather than any problems in the Modules or Fields as the way I built those it doesn't care what your affiliation is.  I'll take a look.

As to the Equipped stuff that is part of the reason I have decided to dump it as a stand alone trait.  It basically was unworkable in a sane and sensible manner.

[monbvol]

Thanks to Liam's Ghost I've gotten somewhere again on working out gestalt stuff for one of my factions in my AU.

The main problem is I have made the actual weight calculations for what the gestalt "body" weigh so convoluted that it is only workable as a spreadsheet or some other software application.

I'll see about making some more notations so the sheet is a bit more readable for people other than me but I am pretty happy with where it is now.

[monbvol]

Okay I let myself get a little sidetracked.

I got to work on the Faction Writeup for the people who will use this "gestalt" technology.  It is mostly finished but it does need a bit of cleaning up and the military section needs filled out yet but it is good enough for now.

I also need to give some thought to exactly how I want to offer this technology in my games.  It isn't so game breaking that I feel automatically inclined to keep it out of the hands of my players but at the same time I need to figure out what the restrictions I have in my mind for who this technology would be used on translate to in AToW traits.

[monbvol]

I've gone and realized there are still certain elements I am missing in my basic construction rules for my gestalt stuff.

I need to have more AToW trait options available and have them impact the construction appropriately.  I also really need to add a cost component as well.  I am also thinking about if I want to make it available to players.  If I do I'm probably going to have to work out some sort of grading system to help limit how much they can cheese out their gestalt suits.

[monbvol]

I think I have finally figured out a better way to handle Custom Vehicle thanks to Era Report 2750.  I'm still working out the numbers but use the same upgrade system in there and have each rank provide a certain amount of upgrade points.  Still have 1 provide side bonus of choosing from own faction 2 any faction and 6 design your own.  I'm not even sure for 1 and 2 I'd make a difference for the choose for Clan but I do want to have Clan Tech cost more upgrade points for certain.  I'll see what kind of numbers I can come up with this week while I'm house/animal sitting for my Uncle with potentially no internet access.

Also before I leave you lot I am seriously considering handing out some design challenges to expand my AU's design repositories.  I'm pretty happy with the mechs.  Wheeled, tracked, and hover I also am pretty close to happy but I may work on those a bit myself since I feel all I'm missing is more higher tech ground based scouts.  WiGes, VTOLs, ASFs, Dropships, Jumpships, Warships, and Space Stations though all either need some serious redesign for what I do have or new design all together.  So if anyone wants to get a jump on this while I'm away feel free.

[monbvol]

Okay been making the biggest dent in Warships for some reason.

Just as a note to myself I'll put up my list of what I have stats for and what I know I still need stats for but only have a class name for.

Finished:

Amegis Compact:
Kagero Class DD
Kagero Class DD-Refit
A Class DD
Tribal Class DD
Diamond Class CL
Emerald Class CL
Ruby Class CL
Barracuda Class Patrol Cruiser
Barracuda Class Patrol Cruiser-Refit
Chokai Class CA
Chokai Class CA-Refit
Chokai Class CA-Remodel
Chokai Class CA-Modernized
Niels luel Class CA
Akagi Class CV
Akagi Class CV-Refit
Akagi Class CV-Remodel
Akagi Class CV-Modernized
War Class DBB
Olympic Class CVB
Asgard Class CVB
Amatsukami Class CCB


Belarus Alliance:
Panzerschiffe Class CRV
Panzerschiffe Class CRV-Refit
Skoriy Class DD
Z1 Class DD(their refit of the Kagero Class DD given to them by the Amegis Compact)
Profintern Class CL
Sverdlov Class CL
Berlin Class CA
Krasnyi Kavkaz Class CA
Borodino Class BC
Gangut Class BB
Moskva Class CVE
Admiral Potrovosky Class CV(their refit of the Akagi Class CV they stole from the Amegis Compact)
Kostromitinova Class CV

Carfana Federation:
Humaita Class CRV
Oruc Reis Class CRV
Maranhao Class DD
Guadiana Class DD
Guadiana Class DD(refit)
Bahia Class CL
Medjidieh Class CL
Provence Class CA
Yavuz Sultan Selim Class CA
Djibouti Class CS
Algiers Class BC
Minas Gerais Class BB
Resadiye Class BB

Corporate Sector:
Jungle Class CRV
Jungle Class CRV(refit)
Saukko Class CRV
Saukko Class CRV(refit)
Saukko Class CRV(remodel)
Lysander Class FF
Lysander Class FF(refit)
Lysander Class FF(remodel)
Lysander Class FF(modernized)
Stringback Class FF
V Class DD
B Class DD
Caledon Class CL
Caledon Class CL(refit)
Caledon Class CL(remodel)
Swiftsure Class CL
Swiftsure Class CL(refit)
Swiftsure Class CL(remodel)
Minotaur Class CL
Minotaur Class CL(refit)
Minotaur Class CL(remodel)
Surrey Class CA
Surrey Class CA(refit)
Surrey Class CA(remodel)
Ilmarinen Class CA
Ilmarinen Class CA(refit)
Ilmarinen Class CA(remodel)
Hermes Class CVE
Hermes Class CVE(refit)
Hermes Class CVE(remodel)
Eagle Class CVE
Ying Swei Class BC
Ying Swei Class BC(refit)
Ying Swei Class BC(remodel)
Ning Hai Class BC
Melbourne Class CV

Darian Supremacy:
Whiskey Class CRV
Romeo Class CRV
Romeo Class CRV(refit)
Romeo Class CRV(remodel)
Romeo Class CRV(modernized)
Galley Class DD
Galley Class DD(refit)
Galley Class DD(remodel)
R Class CL
R Class CL(refit)
R Class CL(remodel)
Raider Type A Class CL
Raider Type B Class CL
Raider Type C Class CL
Raider Type D Class CA
Raider Type E Class CA
Raider Type F Class CA
Trireme Class BC
Trireme Class BC(refit)
Trireme Class BC(remodel)

Ithica Collection:
B1 Class CRV
B1 Class CRV(refit)
B1 Class CRV(remodel)
C Class CRV
C Class CRV(refit)
C Class CRV(remodel)
Alsedo Class DD
Alava Class DD
Nunez Class CL
Alfonso Class CL
Canarias Class CA
Sierra Madre Class CV
Espana Class BB
Espana Class BB(refit)
Espana Class BB(remodel)

Stosh Drift:
No native Warship program.

Terran Dominion:
Crimson Class CRV
Crimson Class CRV-Refit
Crimson Class CRV-Remodel
N'dola Class DD
Bogart Class DD
Hobart Class DD
Town Class CL
City Class CL
Federation Class Troop Cruiser
Dagger Class CVE
Armor Class CVE
Armor Class CVE-Refit
Savanah Class BC
Savanah Class BC-Refit
Volcano Class CB
Volcano Class CB-Refit
Oceanic Class BC
Oceanic Class BC-Refit
Oceanic Class BC-Remodel
Oceanic Class BC-Modernized
State Class DBB

What I still need but have names for:
Kinkaid Class DD*
Quincy Class DD
Kimsatsu Class DD*
County Class CA
Capitol Class CA
Battle Class CVA*
Admiral Class CV*
*More I used to have stats for but am not sure where they got to.

Because I've realized that if I am to make a dent in some of the things I want to flesh out more fully for my universe I am going to need help I may well try some more design competitions.

Heck I should finish up more of my faction write ups so you lot can get a better idea of how some of these factions actually behave.  Hell I may even have to turn loose some of said faction write ups to others as well.

[edit]Don't mind me.  Just found a new resource to help me with naming conventions.

Also realized I wasn't meeting what few naming conventions I do have for a faction.

Yay expansion and progress on stating things out.

Got a few more designs worked out.  Huzzah I guess.

Also decided to cut down on some obvious redundancy since I have enough trouble making distinct warships as it is.[/edit]

[monbvol]

Having borrowed FM:Mr from Liam's Ghost and finally starting to learn the unit creation rules I think I actually like them better than my offerings but I do have to adjust a couple traits since they don't exist anymore in AToW.

For lack of a better idea I'm thinking replacing Brave with Gregarious and Timid with Introvert for the force creation modifiers.

Again lacking a better idea for the now non-existant Scrounge skill use Streetwise instead.

I'll have to think on how to approach the Dropship and Jumpship stuff a bit more for my AU though.

[monbvol]

I got to pondering some things in my AU thanks to Liam's Ghost.  He got me thinking about my formation sizes and artillery concentrations.  I may have to adjust them a bit.  One of my AU events has 94,752 hostile Battlemechs of roughly 3025 technological parity landing on Terra being defended by at best 65,536 Battlemechs with most being parity of IS 3058 but some being parity of Clans 3067.

Artillery concentration for one of my powers is possibly a bit high with 4 guns in a 300 man Infantry Company.

The rest I honestly haven't fleshed out that much.  I have the organizational schemes worked out but I know when it comes to actual concentrations of Battlemechs, Vehicles, ASFs, BA, and Artillery I'm going to have to give that some careful thought.

For example one of my Factions the Belarus Alliance if it deploys the largest organizational unit it has, called a Battle Group, ideally consists of 1 Battlemech Division, 1 Armor Division, 1 Transport Division, and 5 Infantry Divisions.

Each division will always have 95,820 soldiers assigned to it.

For the Battlemech Division this includes all the support needs, PBIs for base security, technicians, logistical support troops, and of course the Mechwarriors themselves.  At this size of force 3,948 Battlemechs are on the field seeing combat.

The number of troops deployed into combat is a bit higher for the Armor Division simply because of the greater crew requirements of vehicles.  Aside from that it'll be 3,948 combat vehicles seeing fighting.

The Transport Division is the odd one.  It will still have the same total number of troops but it is the ASFs, Dropships, Jumpships, and sometimes even Warships that haul the Battle Group about.  Because of that aspect it gets the most fuzzy.  I haven't given a whole lot of thought to hard and fast numbers but I am thinking of 72 ASFs being the combat detachment to cover the ground campaign.

The Infantry Divisions I know I intend to have pulling a lot of double duty as Engineers, additional base security, logistical, technical, and medical support.  As such I'm still working out how much of these formations would be expected to see front line combat.  I've also given serious thought to these formations being the only source of Artillery support for the whole Battle Group.  If I do that is 5,120 tubes of Artillery that will be available just from these formations.

I know a lot of larger scale stuff I'm going over here but one of the things I've discovered about RPGs in general and AToW continues with is you have to think about this sort of stuff so you know what your players are likely to run into.