Operation Revival OmniMech Review: Executioner (Gladiator)

[Savage Coyote]

If I am told we are playing official units <-- by whom? i.e.: The book's not telling you, a person or convention is. That's the very definition of 'house rule.'

Right, the company that holds the license is a house rule  ::) 

Moving on...

[TigerShark]

Right, the company that holds the license is a house rule  ::) 

Moving on...

Well, you may wish to throw away your XTRO PDFs then. :) Those aren't being used in any official events, so they're not canon and cannot be used at anyone's table, by that logic.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Dude, really?

[Col.Hengist]

Also i'm not exactly a fan of being able to refit omnis for each battle and go off the configs.  Whats to stop someone from rocking a Dire Wolf with 5 large pulse lasers, a targetting computer and enough heatsinks to fire the lot and move for example.

 Tonage and crit space? If you have it, you can do it I guess.

[Fat Guy]

With 3.5 tons and 3 crits to spare.

[marauder648]

Tonage and crit space? If you have it, you can do it I guess.

True but its a chedder monkey that slathers itself in brie every morning.  Whilst having mechs (omni's) be fully customisable is cool, you have little in the way of stopping folks from just doing broken mechs that suck the fun out of a game because they are OP.  By going off the configs, at least you can't custom your mech (for the most part) to what you're facing.

[TigerShark]

True but its a chedder monkey that slathers itself in brie every morning.  Whilst having mechs (omni's) be fully customisable is cool, you have little in the way of stopping folks from just doing broken mechs that suck the fun out of a game because they are OP.  By going off the configs, at least you can't custom your mech (for the most part) to what you're facing.

The purpose of an OmniMech is to be customized. It's the ONLY reason they exist. People come up with house rules all of the time to limit the 'cheese' factor. i.e.: only one pulse weapon, no more than X medium lasers, must have at least one explosive weapon/weapon with explosive ammo, and so on.
 
But as for the standard configs of the Executioner... blame the BV system. There's no reason the 'Mech should be double-dipped for jumping AND running at 8 MP, simultaneously. Especially when the 8 MP requires a potentially-deadly crit roll. That's been a problem for two decades and nobody's fixed it.

[Col.Hengist]

Is it a bv balanced game? I know a warhawk with 5 lpl's and a targeting comp is VERY pricy. Either just walk away from the game and refuse to play or teach them how the game is actually played,cwithout gimiks.

[TigerShark]

EDIT: Deleted.

[JadeHellbringer]

ENOUGH.

Less nitpicking, less arguing for the sake of arguing, more Executioner. Move along.

[SteelRaven]

I'm not sure how they will pull off the Executioners speed in MWO but I'm sure they will give it some quirks to mack up for the lack of MASC (MASC is hard to pull off on the table top so I'm not holding my breath) But MWO is a whole other animal.

We haven't seen too many fast moving Clan Assaults after the Executioner and Garg but we have seen plenty of sprinting IS assaults; Berserker, Neanderthal, Zeus X. Can't help thinking the Executioner and Gargoyle left a lasting impression.     

[jklantern]

This is going to be a stupid thing to like about the Mech, but I've always enjoyed how threatening the Mech looks.  I remember it was one of the early Clan Mechs I got in the Card Game (The Gladiator/Executioner D, as a matter of fact), and thinking, "This thing looks like it can murder someone."

[Kojak]

Personally, I always assumed that the appearance of the Executioner was based on a cross between moai and MODOK.

[Greatclub]

Freaking side torso armour

Anyone else get the feeling that this machine was supposed to operate in novas, with elementals acting as ablative armour? Although even that doesn't explain the back armour of 10/9/10.

Love the configs; most have nice kick. Love the mobility and character; it's more than the 'bag of guns' later omnis were. But the FREAKING front side torso armour.

Had one eat two arrow IV to the right torso yesterday.

[Jellico]

Freaking side torso armour

Anyone else get the feeling that this machine was supposed to operate in novas, with elementals acting as ablative armour? Although even that doesn't explain the back armour.

It is one of the primary points of evidence in the unconfirmed theory that the 3050 Clan Mechs were designed then gimped after play testing. It is a really unusual armor pattern that doesn't exist before or after. The closest I can think of is the Awesome with its massive rearward bias. The Executioner is similar but without the rear plating.

[Greatclub]

the awesome's 'turrettech' playstyle & minimum ranges means that it can attract a lot of attention from bugs that get into the backline. It's rear armour means it can ignore them for a time. It's niche, but justifiable.

I can't figure out how to justify 20 armor on the torsos when the arms have over 30. Even with replaceable elemental shielding it's not great (Not to mention hard on the toads)

[Maingunnery]

It is one of the primary points of evidence in the unconfirmed theory that the 3050 Clan Mechs were designed then gimped after play testing. It is a really unusual armor pattern that doesn't exist before or after. The closest I can think of is the Awesome with its massive rearward bias. The Executioner is similar but without the rear plating.

It could also have been an opsie/mistake, as with forgetting to give Clan LRMs a minimum range (rumor that I heard).

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I think I once heard a rumor that the Gladiator was originally given an overweight engine by mistake, leaving the actual mech a couple tons underweight and the extra mass was given as armor to the legs.

[Maelwys]

It is one of the primary points of evidence in the unconfirmed theory that the 3050 Clan Mechs were designed then gimped after play testing. It is a really unusual armor pattern that doesn't exist before or after. The closest I can think of is the Awesome with its massive rearward bias. The Executioner is similar but without the rear plating.

Sort of a Mk. 1 Omni? :)

[Luciora]

I don't know why, but the Executioner just happened to be the only Clan mech I really liked, even though i really don't like MASC.  Too bad it's not pod-able.  I think the fact that it's a fast clan assault with jumpjets made it stand out to ke more than any of the heavies.  I never got into the cult of the Timberwolf, didn't like the Hellbringer's armor, was not wowed by the Summoner's variants and the Mad Dog was just blah to me.

[Jellico]

Sort of a Mk. 1 Omni? :)

Yeah but we know those are fake. (Much as I wanted to say something cute I don't want to encourage conspiracies. )

We are dealing with FASA here. TRO3050 is notorious for stuff ups likewise the time period is known for legitimate at the time highly questionable design choices.

As I said up the thread. Mostly they got ironed out as new variants were introduced in the 3060s but it is slightly trickier for Omnis. As was mentioned above new Omnimechs were introduced, but most Clans still run a favored Omni from 3050. Flaws and all. Something NTNU has tried to help with.

[Hellraiser]

I think I once heard a rumor that the Gladiator was originally given an overweight engine by mistake, leaving the actual mech a couple tons underweight and the extra mass was given as armor to the legs.

Not a rumor.

The first printing of TRO3050 gave it a 400XL not a 380XL.

Mine is nearly 30 years old & abused but pretty sure I can still remember seeing it in there.

[Hellraiser]

Here are some fun stats for you.

Original 3050 Gladiator.

400 XL Engine for 26.25 tons   (Pre-rounding nerf)
6 Ton Gyro
11 Tons Armor
1 MG
Total Tonnage when added up,  100

Armor layout = 9, 37/9, 20/8, 22, 28




Modern (Proper) Stats

380 XL, 20.5 Tons
4 Ton Gyro
13.5 Armor
2 MGs

Armor Layout  =  9, 37/9, 20/10,  32,  40



So yes, it had a too large engine, but its because it added up to 100 tons  (98 if you correct the gyro)

And yes, you can see that aside from adding 1/2 ton of MG's after fixing the Fractional Accounting issue, the remaining 2.5 tons went into Armor & it was slathered on the limbs almost entirely.


Would it have killed them to go   9,  40/10,  25/10,  30,  35   ???

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

So with the original armor layout, the side torsos were more reasonable.  It's a problem that was created when they fixed the mech.

[Jellico]

How does that match up with Vlad's Executioner?

[Terrace]

How does that match up with Vlad's Executioner?

I assume that Vlad's "Executioner" was really a Dire Wolf he had configured with intent to keep Phelan Kell out of the Warrior Caste.

[Empyrus]

Yeah, even 100 ton Executioner doesn't have free mass for twin-Gauss rifles and everything else the "Executioner" is described to have. Only the Dire Wolf does.
Remember the book also has Phelan piloting a "Nova" that is equipped with endo-steel and more weapons than it can have, so it must have been a Stormcrow. Either names didn't have solid assignments at that time (unlikely, given that everything else is correctly named when described), or Stackpole didn't do his research, or his editor didn't double check things.

The original print mistake is intriguing but i reckon it truly is nothing but a mistake, not indication of the Executioner being planned to be heavier than it ended up. I don't naturally have that first printing, but i'd imagine the internal structure amounts etc. are correct for 95 tonner.
I believe someone on these forums has a sig with quote about "FASA not being big on fact checking" or some such, which, in retrospect, reading of all sorts of mistakes etc., seems rather accurate. Like BattleDroids had a lot of mistakes even with then-construction rules, and so did many later products.

So with the original armor layout, the side torsos were more reasonable.  It's a problem that was created when they fixed the mech.

Well, 13.5 tons of armor is better than 11 tons, whether or not it is arranged smartly. Never know where you get hit...
Honestly not sure the new layout created a problem, rather it merely highlights a deficiency of the original (thin armor on an assault is thin).

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I mean that the armor layout was reasonable on the original version but when they buffed it, they buffed it oddly.

[Hellraiser]

rather it merely highlights a deficiency of the original (thin armor on an assault is thin).

11 CFF is 13.2 Standard.

Thin to be sure, but, still more than many of the 3025 Assaults.

Charger, Victor, Zeus, Longbow, Cyclops (Annihilator)

The only "Max" Armored assault in that era was the Atlas with the Awesome only 1/2 ton short.   (Mad-II & Imp)

The rest,  Goliath, Stalker, Battlemaster, & Banshee (Shogun) are 1+ tons short but not what I would call "thin" either.... Call it "Moderate"

At 95 tons it probably started thin but the new levels are squarely in the moderate range.

That placement really is a pain though.  Not many mechs have a 2/1 armor ratio on the F/B of their torsos.

[Jellico]

I wonder if it was a case off too much DFA love? The similar vintage Highlander fluff mentioned reinforced leg armor for DFAs. The 50s are full of adaptions for niche combat maneuvers. Perhaps there was a DFA lover on the FASA design team?