Author Topic: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint  (Read 8868 times)

worktroll

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Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« on: 19 January 2020, 01:03:55 »
So I've been reading the buzz out there around Citadel's Contrast Paint range. For those of you who haven't, it's part of their painting scheme & range of products designed to produce an impressive base for minis, with minimal work.

I'm planning on doing a Filtvelt Defenders unit, which is .. orange. And orange, along with yellow, is a very hard colour to do well - it doesn't cover cleanly, it's usually very thin, etc. So using traditional techniques - not Contrast - I'd been able to get this:



To get this, I had

1) based in light grey
2) hit with black ink wash
3) drybrushed a few coats with light grey
4) drybrushed some coats of orange paint
5) Hit with a yellow wash

plus detailing, of course. It's ok - needs some improvements, I feel.

Now let's follow the Contrast Paint process. This is my first trial run, so I kept it very simple.

1) Base light grey. I used Citadel Seer Grey base, that's apparently a satin finish base which works well with contrast paints. I've seen reports that matt/chalky bases create issues.


2) Slather on the contrast paint. It's pleasingly thick, spreads well, and I just brushed off any pooling. Here's it wet, then dry


As you can see, the details all come up nicely, the colour's good and strong and even.

3) Some basic detailing - metallic parts painted black and drybrushed metal, some black contrast trim added, cockpit ... that's it.



And that, with much much less effort, is a creditable table-ready mini. I'm going to see how I can push this further. For example, I'm going to try basing black, drybrushing Seer Grey, then hitting it with contrast orange, to see if I can get darker panelling. And I'll see whether ghostbrushing with orange paint adds highlights nicely.

Short form, Citadel Contrast paints are a step past the Army Painter dips, which are basically all varnish wood stains. The colours of Contrast are stronger than traditional Army Painter dips, and available in a wide range of colours. With browns, greens, and greys, I can get similar effects from an appropriately coloured base, and then hit it with appropriate inks; this provides a milder colour upgrade, and detailing, but hasn't always worked for other colours - blues, and the aforementioned yellows & oranges.  And there's issues correcting mistakes - I just painted some more contrast over some black overrun, and it didn't really do well, but we learn - next time I'll correct with grey, then put orange on top.

And then there's White Contrast. I've seen W40K minis done with that, and I think I'll prefer a darker panelling for my WoB/ComGuard units, but it's a hell of a good place to start, and I'm looking forward to picking up Contrast Yellow & Contrast Whie, as my new job is just two blocks away from a Warhammer shop chock full of Citadel paints!

Comments/questions welcome, and I'd love to hear from others who've tried this stuff.

W.
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Nastyogre

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #1 on: 19 January 2020, 12:11:15 »
There are two classes of Contrast and GW doesn't discuss this. Some paints cover very well and fairly uniformly. Leviadon Blue, Shyish Purple, Dark Angles Green, Blood Angels Red to name a few. Others, a very, very thin with very weak coverage. Some of the thicker are sort of a subclass. Leciadon Blue and Shyish Purple. If you wick away what might pool you get very uniform coverage with little "contrast" effect. Especially on flat surfaces.

So mileage for contracts is varies quite a bit. I watched a number of videos assessing them. They do have uses, but not all will work well. The best painters are still often thinning them with contrast medium (for the thicker paints) or using multiple coats for the thinner paints. This is in direct contrast (pun intended) to what GW states you can do which is "one thick coat."

You also have to be careful concerning over-painting. Regular acrylic paints, if I make a goof and don't see it to wipe it off. I can go back and paint over with a regular paint, unless the colors and paints won't cover. (Yellow or Orange won't cover much of anything)  Contrast has to have an error re-primed and repainted with only a few exceptions, no contrast paint will cover another effectively.

some good resources https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jla40wPw7_U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E643mw0CFH4 This guy is annoying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVk-32TQcfI  This guy is really annoying. His shtick get old after about the 3rd time you watch him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uBx0HzSXYE  This guy has a whole series on using the different contrasts. He is really good. He shows how to highlight it and shade it using traditional techniques as well. It shows just how far you can take it. He's an expert and takes about 40-45 min for a marine. Not for fast unit painting but it teaches you a whole lot about the contrast line.

Force of Nature

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #2 on: 20 January 2020, 01:25:29 »

some good resources https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jla40wPw7_U

Vince's painting videos are all very good to watch and learn from. He is very thorough in some of his videos.

Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E643mw0CFH4 This guy is annoying.

Miniac is down to earth and is enjoyable to watch. He does throw in some humor from time to time and you can learn from his videos just as easily. He has a video to really watch for taking pictures of your painted miniatures that explains all of the reasons why you need a light box and a good background.


Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVk-32TQcfI  This guy is really annoying. His shtick get old after about the 3rd time you watch him.

Once you get over his WWE wrestling persona by simply ignoring it or fast forwarding the video, his airbrushing work is really good.


Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uBx0HzSXYE  This guy has a whole series on using the different contrasts. He is really good. He shows how to highlight it and shade it using traditional techniques as well. It shows just how far you can take it. He's an expert and takes about 40-45 min for a marine. Not for fast unit painting but it teaches you a whole lot about the contrast line.

Squidmar is from Norway and I agree, he and his videos are really good to watch.

Nastyogre

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #3 on: 20 January 2020, 02:08:13 »
Oh the guys I say are annoying are very talented. They don't seem to be bad guys at all. Generous with their advice, actually somewhat self-depricating, especially Miniac. People would certainly dislike me for one reason or another if I tried to do what they do. Mostly that I'm nowhere near as talented or practiced. I may have painted more than 100 miniatures. They've done thousands (maybe tens of thousands)

I've learned from all of these guys. I don't like some stuff they do  some approaches. Everyone but Squidmar seems obsessed with Zenithal priming. Useful for the models they are painting (the GW stuff) much less so for things like Battletech and CAV.  Vince and Kenny ignore that they sometime obliterate their Zenithal with using paint that is simply too opaque to take much advantage of it, or at least it gives that appearance. Scott (Miniac) acknowledges that to really take advantage of Zenithal priming you have to use inks or glazes which give back much of the time potentially saved by undershading because you need to build up the color to get coverage. Perhaps it shows up in person, but I've literally watched them each wipe out their Zenithal effect with the first pass or two of paint. Then again, I am entirely incapable of doing what any of the 3 do with a brush or airbrush, so that is a critique of an armchair quarterback.

I haven't watched much more than the Contrast stuff from Squidmar. His approach and explanation is very good. "Do this. Highlight this in this way, it does X"  His methods are fairly simple and reproduceable for the marines. I'll be using some of that approach on Battletech and CAV mini's I'm painting here in the near future.

I couldn't tell you which of these 4 is really better. Vince and Squidmar explain better. Kenny needs to ease up a bit on the act and explain how he is actually doing what he is doing. It is typically a paint mix and a general approach. It varies from video to video. It's like a WWE Bob Ross. Good for a paint along, but he is not actually explaining how to paint.  Maybe I need to watch more, but I've gotten more from Vince and others. All that said. Kenny inspired me with some of the Pumpkin Warriors he's had on this site over the years for Halloween. I've bought the models and I've developed a whole diorama idea. I've just about got everything now.

Can't go wrong with any one or all of them. If any one of us got half as good as any one of them, you would win most local competitions and have the best forces locally almost for sure and nobody would ever say much negative about what you put on the table.

Insaniac99

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #4 on: 20 January 2020, 10:52:17 »
I've learned from all of these guys. I don't like some stuff they do  some approaches. Everyone but Squidmar seems obsessed with Zenithal priming. Useful for the models they are painting (the GW stuff) much less so for things like Battletech and CAV.  Vince and Kenny ignore that they sometime obliterate their Zenithal with using paint that is simply too opaque to take much advantage of it, or at least it gives that appearance. Scott (Miniac) acknowledges that to really take advantage of Zenithal priming you have to use inks or glazes which give back much of the time potentially saved by undershading because you need to build up the color to get coverage. Perhaps it shows up in person, but I've literally watched them each wipe out their Zenithal effect with the first pass or two of paint. Then again, I am entirely incapable of doing what any of the 3 do with a brush or airbrush, so that is a critique of an armchair quarterback.

A few things as I see it, I zenithal my BT minis and I find it gives them a great look.  Zenithal is all about showing shadows, and If you create nice stark shadows, good mid-tones, and a bright highlight, it helps reinforce that the 2" mini is really a 12-meter tall mech when the underside of the raised arm or the waist that is in shadow is a very dark shade and transitions smoothly into the fullness of the paint scheme as you get closer to the top. 

Vince, at least, mentions that he always zenithals because it very fast to do and it informs him where the highlights and shadows should be, even if he is going to paint over it later. 

I zenithal, pin wash, then clean and highlight before an ink layer. The slowest step there is the pin wash because the zenithal and the ink layer are just airbrushed on in a few moments.  The bonus is that you can then also zenithal with metal for a really nice look, this is a simple test I did a little bit back that only took a few minutes, even now you can see the different shades of the metal, but I've since got more metals to get more obvious differences.

worktroll

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #5 on: 21 January 2020, 02:53:26 »
Only problem is, I don't take in information from videos, and there's precious little out there on this in text. Nor do I have an airbrush. Hence my experimentation, which I post here in case anyone else might be interested.
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Nastyogre

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #6 on: 21 January 2020, 15:52:32 »
I've found two pretty worthless Contrasts thus far. Athermetic Blue and Basilicum Grey. Barely cover. So transluscent that they don't really do anything. The concept of "one thick coat" is laughable. They do pool in the creases, but they don't do much more than a really thin wash.

Warp Lightning and Talassar Blue are pretty nice. Decent coverage and not so dark as to be absolutely uniform. (The way some of the darker colors come out)

A couple of those artists do have a short written guide or quick reference card they made up. You are right, very little is written. I guess most 40K painters are thin on writing skills?  >:D

cypher226

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #7 on: 22 January 2020, 08:53:58 »
Disagree on Basilicanum Grey being useless - it is very useable over metallics (gives a cleaner finish than nuln oil or similar imo) and I've used it to great effect over mid greys. I think it just needs a darker base colour than the other contrasts.

RazorclawXLS

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #8 on: 22 January 2020, 12:58:09 »
Disagree on Basilicanum Grey being useless - it is very useable over metallics (gives a cleaner finish than nuln oil or similar imo) and I've used it to great effect over mid greys. I think it just needs a darker base colour than the other contrasts.

I agree. I hadn't actually painted any mini yet with Basilicanum Grey, but I tried it out on some sample sprues I painted with various colors for testing purposes. It is as cypher mentioned already, gives a better finish than nuln oil metallics, it gives cleaner shading without dirtying the metal color underneath, and gives a metallic finish when used on grey colors that aren't too dark.

Mattlov

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #9 on: 22 January 2020, 14:45:20 »
I think you have a bad bottle of Basilicanum Grey.  But I don't follow GW's rule and put it all over white primer.  Because I'm a rebel and all. 

Aethermatic blue is very light, I use it for GW plasma gun effects and the like.  Looks cool over white.

Talassar Blue is INSTANT Lyran Royal Guard Blue, Warp Lightning is Jade Falcon Green as much as you've ever wanted.  I love the Contrast paints.  I'll find a place to share some pics if anyone wants to see what I've done with them.
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Nastyogre

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #10 on: 22 January 2020, 16:47:21 »
I'll mix it some more, but our first attempt for Basillicum grey was over light grey airbrushed primer. It didn't do more than stain the grey and flow into creases.

Athermetic Blue is probably just a "special effect" color. I did get coverage after two coats on a Cicada.

I agree on Talassar Blue and Warp Lightning. Pretty much instant colors for the factions mentioned. I think Warp Lightning does a fair job for Capellan green too.

I wonder if Ultramarines would do for Davion Guard blue.

RazorclawXLS

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #11 on: 22 January 2020, 18:45:29 »

I wonder if Ultramarines would do for Davion Guard blue.

I don't think so. That color is more purple than blue. I would suggest trying out Talassar blue over a darker grey undercoat to see how it comes out.

SteelRaven

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #12 on: 23 January 2020, 01:38:42 »
As a amateur that still has yet to paint any of his Intro Box stuff (New Years resolution) the Camo Specs videos on the contrast paint do make them tempting speaking as someone you just needs something for the game table.
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Kargush

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #13 on: 27 January 2020, 22:33:52 »
Squidmar is from Norway and I agree, he and his videos are really good to watch.
Sweden, you mean.
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worktroll

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #14 on: 28 January 2020, 03:26:52 »
So more practical adventures.

I wanted to get a darker panel lining than from straight contrast over Seer Grey. So I primed a mini in black, and drybrushed it with Seer Grey.



I didn't mind a little grain on the coverage, as I was interested to see what happened. I then hit it with a coat of the orange contrast paint. Here it is, while still wet:



And here it is when dry, next to the Locust (sorry about the Locust being out of focus):



I was pretty happy with that. The panelling looked darker, and the mini looked less toy-like. I then hit it with a drybrush of orange paint over the top, to highlight edges. Very happy - given the Filtvelt Defenders are plain orange, that's pretty much good to go, with a little metallic detail drybrushed over matt black.



So that looks like a plan. Here's the Archer, with the original Locust, and a Banshee I did up the same way.



I've given the Locust a drybrush of orange too, but I think the dark orange in the panel lines doesn't look as good, so it'll be for the oven cleaner.

As an aside, here's a CAV Valient, primed in Seer Grey and then hit with yellow contrast:



Done up Canopian, it's OK, but I'm pretty sure that the black prime/Seer grey drybrush will look more 'military' under the yellow contrast.

As an aside, I think black/seer grey drybrush is also a great base for traditional ComStar/WoB white; and there's a white contrast paint I still have to pick up ...
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Kargush

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #15 on: 29 January 2020, 10:47:52 »
Anyone tried to use BA Red for their Sword of Light mechs? How did it turn out, and what (if anything) would you have done differently?
Buy'ce gal, buy'ce tal
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wolfspider

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #16 on: 29 January 2020, 11:08:30 »
B1flyer did a video on youtube using contrast for Sword of Light mechs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n_9XlImLFc
« Last Edit: 29 January 2020, 11:10:41 by wolfspider »
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jimdigris

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #17 on: 29 January 2020, 16:24:15 »
 :thumbsup:

Daryk

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #18 on: 29 January 2020, 17:27:18 »
I think the Banshee looks far and away the best out of those three, worktroll...

Nastyogre

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #19 on: 29 January 2020, 23:28:38 »
One more painter doing a good bit of contrast painting. He is very good. Also, sounds like Dracula.(not really) I would certainly rather listen to him a few times than others.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe8TNMA9iSSRgfpuML04SUg

Crackerb0x

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #20 on: 30 January 2020, 09:22:41 »
If an airbrush is your sort of thing, I'd encourage you to put the contrasts through it the same way you'd use an ink. I got a gorgeous green metallic by putting Warpstone green over a gunmetal base with bright silver highlights.

Crackerb0x

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #21 on: 30 January 2020, 09:24:26 »
Oof forgot to attach example.

Kargush

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #22 on: 30 January 2020, 11:40:31 »
B1flyer did a video on youtube using contrast for Sword of Light mechs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n_9XlImLFc
Oh, that is wonderful. Thank you!
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Nastyogre

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #23 on: 30 January 2020, 15:31:11 »
If an airbrush is your sort of thing, I'd encourage you to put the contrasts through it the same way you'd use an ink. I got a gorgeous green metallic by putting Warpstone green over a gunmetal base with bright silver highlights.

I did one recently. They work like a thicker wash almost I agree. I got a pretty even coat, also with Warpstone Green. I treat it like a pre-thinned paint. You lose the "contrast effect" mostly using an airbrush. Perhaps from quite some distance? It is thin enough if you try in close it pushes the paint quite a bit.

I like your effect, I was curious if that would work as an effect.

Crackerb0x

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #24 on: 30 January 2020, 16:54:44 »
I like your effect, I was curious if that would work as an effect.

Well, the original point of Contrast is to brush it on rather thickly so that it can work its magic. By using it in an airbrush you're going to get very even coverage, which makes it so that the Contrast medium doesnt work its "magic", but if you want to apply a translucent color over a base coat, it works great.

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #25 on: 30 January 2020, 17:30:50 »

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #26 on: 30 January 2020, 18:46:28 »
Oof forgot to attach example.
All is forgiven... those look GREAT, even if I only recognize one of the minis...  :thumbsup:

MarauderD

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #27 on: 15 July 2020, 19:52:14 »
Any suggestions for a good CW contrast color blue for the Davion Brigade of Guards?  I’m thinking of trying the old scheme of a blue base with a white and red pinstripe.

Then again, this paint scheme might be a beyond my humble abilities.  But if anyone has any suggestions for Davion Guards blue I’m all ears.

worktroll

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #28 on: 15 July 2020, 21:18:30 »
Tallasar blue looks like the best shot.

My only concern would be about 'cleaning up'. I know I'd need to be tidying up the lines, and with contrast you're more or less forced to do the base before re-applying the contrast.

I'd think about using a darker blue contrast as a base (like Ultramine, then drybrushing something like Lothern Blue over the top to get the lighter colour with the DBoG scheme. Then you can use the Lothern Blue (or equivalent) to tidy up the read & white lines.
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

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Re: Adventures in Citadel Contrast Paint
« Reply #29 on: 16 July 2020, 01:12:01 »
Just an FYI... There are few Youtube videos on how to make your own contrast paints and colors.

 

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