Author Topic: ISaW Game, epic style  (Read 30133 times)

epic

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ISaW Game, epic style
« on: 31 May 2018, 11:06:28 »
Okay, having recruited 5 people that are committed to a grueling schedule of grinding thru game turns, I have started a new ISaW grand campaign to test out the system.  The Purist had asked me to post a turn by turn for previous games, but I had no good note-keeping kept (especially after a computer crash) to really give it flavour and both of the previous games also suffered from rules transitions that occurred mid-game.

This time around, we have access to IO, 1st and 2nd SW materials.  Also, a better over-all grasp of the rules.

The goal is to have a 68 round game, from Jan 3025 until august 3030, with an attempt to recreate the 4th SW, or at least the conditions of the 4th SW.

As such, and keeping in line with my love for Rise and Decline of the 3rd Reich, I established some scenario rules for each of the major powers to push them towards canonical outcomes a bit.  They were not overtly harsh, and open-ended enough that there could still be significant changes (such as a FC Invasion of the DC, rather than the CC).  However, the goal was to have a working FC alliance, and a disfunctional Kapteyn agreement.  Ultimately, the players agreed that this is a playtest to see if something similar to the 4th SW will work properly based on the current rules set. 

Each of the 5 powers had specific goals set on a yearly basis that failure to adhere to would lose them either RP, or gain/lose a trait.  So, for instance, the CC would have to engage in at least one successful Black Op before the end of 3025, or lose Superior Black Ops.  Goals can't be revealed on the forum here (other than the above) to prevent players from seeing each others, though a few goals are mutual enough that the players are certain to realize that they each share a goal (will explain more as turns progress, or will become obvious).  In this light, it's similar to the opening moves of some of the old Avalon Hill games, in that certain events must take place regardless of player moes. 

Also, all 3 Periphery powers were NPC, to simplify matters.  Pirates were tossed in using some home-brew, but will not have a major impact on the game.

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epic

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #1 on: 31 May 2018, 11:16:06 »
After an exhaustive 1st round set-up, I revealed a further item to all players. 

All players had access to everyone else's spreadsheets and information for the 1st round, and NO unit movement other than spec ops teams movement was allowed 1st round.  This decision was made to simplify set up (all units set up in canonical location rather than allowing players to deploy as they wish) and equalize the playing field.  Why equalize?  Well, 1, because I have actually already posted my spreadsheets on this site, so anyone doing their homework would already have access to them and 2.  not everyone owns every housebook for 3025 like I do. 
In game, the rationale for this is made by Comstar:

"A major leak occurs that reveals all of the in-house Comstar sourcebooks for the Successor States and Periphery is accidentally released in a mass HPG broadcast that was imprinted in a news broadcast.  By the time Comstar notices, it is too late; the info has gone viral.  The Successor States scramble to take advantage as well as umbrage to this serious security breach, and settlements abound as Comstar economically provides a cbill incentive to each Successor state to compensate for the issue.  In a rare public broadcast, Primus Tiepolo apologizes for the breach and damage to relations to all the States of Humanity, and advises that those responsible (a renegade movement within the Order that was dedicated to the downfall of the Houses due to extremist viewpoints; heretofore referred to as terrorists) are being dealt with internally by ROM."
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epic

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #2 on: 31 May 2018, 11:23:12 »
Turn 1, January
Most nations consolidate, work on building spec ops teams and training centres (national resources that don't require maintenance)
.  The DC begins building units early, a new CC created. 
CC gets a black op completed
MoC attempted to steal industrial secrets but failed... and was undiscovered.  The operation had a refund on it due to
early aborting.
The LC built a brand new Assault Mech Combat Command
the FWL faced a constitutional crisis, and their RP issues were correspondingly difficult (-15%)


Mass desertions and mutinies stun the Inner Sphere powers, other than the Capellan Confederation, where a single infantry regiment is caught in desertion... and the members
are subsequently executed.  They serve as an example for the rest and the average Citizen simply nods their head in gratitude to the state for catching such traitors.

Hardest hit is the FWL, due to lingering resentment between the provinces and the federal government, as well as other issues stemming from the Civil War. 

On Farandir, loyalist mercenary units Ramilie's Raiders work with local militia forces to bring to justice Kincaid's Slashers, whose troops either deserted or mutinied en masse.  They handily defeat the merc unit, which is destroyed in the process.  Salvage goes towards repairing what little damage the Raiders took. 
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epic

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #3 on: 31 May 2018, 11:35:26 »
Turn 2 to post after I do a bunch of rolling... but it's mostly going to be a movement round, as the powers that be shuffle units everywhere they can to 1. prevent desertion/mutiny and 2. to fix the security breach of everyone knowing where all their units are.

Oh, and the spec ops have already started flying at each other too. 
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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #4 on: 31 May 2018, 12:04:19 »
Due to desertions/mutinies, several new merc units become available (small scale) for hiring, but no one snaps up any contracts... yet
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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #5 on: 02 June 2018, 14:14:04 »
Turn 2

The Succession Wars continue.  With positions all known of militaries, they scramble to re-deploy... or take advantage of neighbouring local weakness. 
The Capellan Confederation focuses on training, and establishing more operatives in various states.
The Draconis Combine moves troops about internally, with 2 of the 3 Legions of Vega disappearing... a surprise attack on Fort Loudon against Lyran militia forces the
local government to surrender after a few short days of fighting.  A raid on Quentin to disrupt production fails, however, and Brion's Legion withdraws after losing almost
a full battalion of mechs to little loss on the Federated side.
The Federated Suns begins a surprise attack on their neighbours, hoping to take advantage of them and keep the initiative in their wars.  Launching raids on Tikonov,
St. Ives and Styk, they damage local industry for several months on all 3 worlds.  Meanwhile, an invasion of Denbar crushes local Capellan resistance easily.  However,
in what can only be described as a monumental error in command (Capellan interference in the communication chain is suspected), the Clovis Draconis March Militia attacks Ronel,
and gets embroiled in a hard fought engagement against elements of Kerr's Intruders and local miliia.  Duke Sandoval of the Draconis March and Prince Davion exchange words,
both not understanding how this could occur, weakening the border with the Dragon...  while the Davion forces on Ronel have the upper hand, the losses that the RCT has
sustained and the inability to disengages bodes ill for the unit. 
Meanwhile, on the Draconis front, Davion forces seize the worlds of Paris and Huan.  Local militia forces are easily trounced on Huan, but inflict impressive damage on
Davion forces on Paris, taking out a mech battalion, armour battalion and infantry regiment from the invading RCT.  They fought to the last, and are given a posthumous
mention of merit by the Dragon himself for their courage, being only weekend warriors.
The Free Worlds League is not quiet.  Janos Marik authorizes a raid on Gienah, though it has little effect.  Losing 2 companies of mechs in the process, the raiders withdraw
after exceptional resistance from local militia.  The 9th Regulan Hussars used in the fight then have several support units attached to the attack mutiny and/or desert,
disgusted with the Captain-General's antics.  They head to Galatea with their equipment, starting up a brand new mercenary outfit. 
Janos' other operation is much more successful, however, albeit with a number of embarrassments.  An assault on Zaniah with 2 Free Worlds League Militia units, a mercenary
company and the Gryphons of the Silver Hawk Irregulars drops on world.  The massively outnumbered local militia puts up a valiant defence, trying to take advantage of
extremely poor coordination between the FWLM units, but is simply overwhelmed by sheer numbers before they can.  Lyran pundits raise concerns at this spearhead towards
Hesperus II...
Following in their Federated Suns' allies footsteps, Lyran forces attack a number of positions.  On the FWL front, Lyran forces seize Colfax and Nockatunga.  On Colfax,
they destroyed langendorff lancers after a hard fought attempt to make the Lyrans chase them… air recon determined their fate.  In what could be a blunder, the 1st and 2nd
Narhal Raiders are tasked with assaulting Gallisteo; the local militia there makes a strong fight of it, and while inflicting little damage on the Raiders, they force them
to fight for every inch, with the attack still ongoing...
In a public statement, the Archon decides it is time to "deal with the pirate problem once and for all" and has Lyran periphery forces seize the worlds of Erewhon and
Lackhove.  Finally, Lyran forces attack the Dragon itself!  The 3rd Lyran Regulars seize the world of Mozirje from a surprised DCMS militia. 
The Periphery states are quiet... too quiet. 
Beyond that, spies abound everywhere.  The FWL suspects a number of active spy networks are in their nation, especially after finding what remains of some Maskirovka
special ops teams near Andurien...
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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #6 on: 02 June 2018, 14:25:05 »
As the 'brain', or lack thereof, behind the most recent re-write of intelligence ops, I'd love to hear feedback from the game on how you and the players are finding them.

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epic

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #7 on: 02 June 2018, 15:43:43 »
Initial Feedback: Espionage works really well.

While initially, the thought that Espionage and finding out troop strengths on planets wasn't that useful as it's always a round behind, the fact that units are NOT in transit all the time or being shuffled elaborately means that it's often accurate.  Also, we allow that it gives what the militia strength is too, which was what led to the FWL strike on Zaniah being what it was (an uncoordinated attack by 4 green units from 3 different worlds could have been disastrous otherwise).  Even if the other player gets word that the espionage attempt happened to find out defences, they may very well be too late to get reinforcements there in time to make a difference. 

Fragility of spec ops teams was mentioned; specifically, that it is incredibly unlikely that a spec ops team will ever achieve veteran status (as even a successful black op has a 1/3 chance of killing the team). 

A thought that was passed on to me in regards to espionage was in regards to distance.  Specifically, that a power that is weak in counterintelligence (in this game, currently the FWL has that as a trait) will get targeted by EVERYONE if they have a technological advantage at all, in order to steal secrets.  We are entertaining a penalty for powers that don't border another power that also send operatives or operations to that nation.

Propaganda ops are very much dependent on a GM, but as we keep troop movements semi-secret (they have a percentage chance of being noticed), propaganda has a nice role in basically letting everyone THINK they know troop movements... as well as blaming other people for special ops.  We also have something about false flagging (aka "pirates") that folks are looking into. 

Sabotage ops are a useful way of "raiding" as well.  I think they are about to become very much more important in the coming round.

Black ops also work pretty much as intended. 

One point that was made so far is that the Successor States have enough rp to make important ops have a very good chance of success, while making defence against everything but Research attacks very hard.  Research counter-intelligence seems to be prioritized for most powers, as it's quite easy to max out all 4 areas.  Meanwhile, espionage and sabotage seem fairly easy to bypass defences - very difficult to predict targets.

One point; somehow having a mechanism to find out where spec ops teams of the enemy are located.  We have said that it would fall under Espionage: Troop Location, but it's frustrating to have to do it for every spec ops team the other players have (especially as you have to guess how many they have).  That makes some sense, but it does make it difficult to try and defend against. 
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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #8 on: 02 June 2018, 15:44:08 »
heh, and turn 3, starting the rolls for now. 
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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #9 on: 08 June 2018, 14:46:16 »
March 3025

The Capellan Confederation, damaged by Davion raids, nevertheless chooses to express their displeasure.  First, another battalion of Kerr's Intruders land on Ronel; the local Clovis DMM was already in the process of falling back, however, and neither side chooses to engage in space as the Draconis March Militia leaves Capellan space.
Choosing to also regain the lost world of Denbar, the Blackwind Lancers land there to challenge the 1st Kittery Borderers, and while Davion forces manage to hold them off for some time via maneuverability, a series of strikes on their supplies as well as damage to their transports prevent their escape; in a couple sharp engagements the Lancers destroy the Borderers at the cost of a mech battalion (even after salvage). 
Finally, the St Ives Lancers land on the world of Scituate, and easily destroy the weak Davion militia there; the Capellan flag flies on that world.

The Dragon awakens.  Angry at the effrontery of the Federated Suns and Lyran Commonwealth, several operations proceed. First, building more Ryuken regiments.  Second, sending ISF personnel in on operations that steal valuable research data in the LC.  An attempt to turn agents in Federated Suns space goes horribly wrong, however, and
the spec ops team is id'd and blown to pieces in a double-cross that Federated Suns media touts as an example of Kurita ineptitude...
Those same media outlets are strangely less critical of their own government upon hearing news of counter-attacks by the Dragon at Paris, Huan and Mozirje... and a raid by Wolf's Dragoons on Kesai IV, with additional raids targetting Marduk and Quentin.  The Quentin and Marduk raids are repulsed.  The Dragoon raid on Kesai IV is
also repulsed, again with no loss; Alpha and Beta regiments of the Dragoons falling back and inflicting minimal damage on at least 2 full Davion RCTs while taking little themselves.  Gamma and Delta regiments attempt a landing at Huan... but facing heavy aero opposition,  they withdraw before even arriving on world.  The Dragon is displeased
but authorizes the withdrawal, knowing that the ships would never have even reached the world.  Huan remains in Davion hands... but Paris is attacked and the Robinson Draconis March Militia ceases to exist as the 9th Benjamin Regulars crushes them utterly beneath them, avenging the loss of the world and the valiant sacrifice made by the militia. 
Surprisingly, the 3rd Lyran Regulars fight a mobile campaign against the 17th Rasalhague Regulars on Mozirje and use local assets well to delay the Kurita counter-attack.
A few pitched battles have occurred that have shown no clear advantage on either side, though the loss of a light armour regiment on the Lyran side has reduced their ability to outmaneuver their enemy.  So far, the battle there continues...

Federated Suns forces continue a heavy raiding pattern in Capellan space, successfully damaging Capellan industry at Nanking and Indicass.  A raid on Ares fails, with minimal losses on both sides.  The Draconis front stays quiet, as Federated troops and the quartermasters try to keep troops in supply...

Free Worlds League forces, facing supply shortages again as Parliament debates the implications of recent Lyran offensives, shuts down funding significantly.  The 6th Orloff Grenadiers chase the Narhal Raiders off Gallisteo after crushing their aerospace support; the mercenaries manage to escape before the Grenadiers can finish the job
on their ground forces.  The 5th Defenders of Andurien attempt yet another raid on Gienah, but are repulsed with heavy losses. 

A number of different attempts at setting up local espionage operations fail by the Lyran Commonwealth, with several public executions of spies in the Draconis Combine and the Capellan Confederation, and incarceration in the Free World League.  Loki operatives on Sabik cause massive damage to a local water supply, and thousands die
in the ensuing chaos... The Lyrans continue to claim border worlds, this time invading an old Rim Worlds system, All Dawn.  Using the local militias as training operations with live fire exercises, the Lyrans begin the occupation of the world.  Susie Morgaine Ryan raids Erewhon, attempting to drive off Lyran forces there... unable to stand up against an entire Lyran task force, she uses hit and run tactics to damage the local forces. 


The Periphery states are otherwise quiet still... though there is evidence arising of special operations from Canopus occurring in FWL space, evidence is inconclusive.
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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #10 on: 08 June 2018, 14:46:53 »
turn 4 is already in, just have to do the results for that.  Happily, fewer combats other than a full siege at Mozirje looks like. 
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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #11 on: 09 June 2018, 15:25:11 »
April 3025
The CC does nothing noteworthy, simply working on rebuilding damaged infrastructure after repeated Davion raids, and consolidating their hold on Scituate. 

The DC reinforces Mozirje, and begins a long-planned invasion of Galtor III.  As part of the operation, Davion jumpships and transport networks at key hubs are damaged by special ops teams as part of the opening salvo of the operation...
The siege of Mozirje now involves the 17th Rasalhague Regulars, the 1st Night Stalkers and the St Cyr Heavy Assault Group.  The Lyrans also bring in reinforcements, with the 24th Arcturan Guard landing to assist the beleaguered 3rd Lyran Regulars.  Kurita dropships zip through the lines to re-supply the 17th without fail. The
over-confident 17th RR preps to destroy the 3rd Lyrans but walks into an ambush of a full assault tank regiment that had managed to remain hidden; between that pinning them and a Lyran Wall of Steel charge, the 17th loses 2 entire tank regiments and 2 mech battalions before they can fall back.  Desperate to maintain the tempo of the attack,
the 17th engages in hit and run while awaiting reinforcements; the Lyrans are unable to catch up to them, but satisfy themselves with destroying a DCMS infantry regiment out of position as well.  If not for DMCS air superiority, the 17th would be completely destroyed; turning it about, they also obliterate a few lyran infantry regiments out
of position and badly damage Lyran artillery support.  Exhausted, both sides land troops to assist them... the Arcturan Guard destroy an entire 2 battalions of the Night Stalkers'
mechs, forming up to assist the enemy.  The Lyrans generalship is far greater than their normally inferior doctrine allows for (engagement rolls that are just rocking it!) and even though the DCMS Troops wipe out a couple battalions of armour in response, the situation is starting to look grim.  The St Cyr HAG support is minimal so far... 

On Galtor III, the DMCS troops face a limited militia, reinforced by partially constructed fortifications.  It quickly becomes apparent that reinforcements were due to arrive but had been delayed due to previous transportation problems now compounded by DEST strikes on the transport hubs.  The 2nd and 14th Legions of Vega, far from home,
as well as the 11th Benjamin Regulars begin the occupation of the world, looking for what appears to be some type of Star League depot!  Local Galtor forces inflict incredible damage on DMCS air forces that repeatedly bomb targets; the militia fights a battle that falls back to Fort Finger, which still is barely holding by the end of the month, after
2 weeks of carpet bombing and repeated artillery strikes, plus a failed infantry assault.  The defenders, holding on by a shoe string, desperately hope for reinforcements...
Finally, the 5th Sword of Light begins a raid on Quentin, determined to show the "pathetic regulars and mercenaries how it's done!"  Showing their skill, their light battalion drops on world, inflicts massive carnage on soft targets that the desperate 22nd Avalon Hussars try to prevent and fail at, and then leave.  The death toll is in the 10s if not hundreds of thousands, the 5th CO smirks at the Davionist propaganda depicting the horrors of war they have inflicted.  The Coordinator sends a personal congratulation to Tai-sho Conti...

Federated Suns forces move a bit, but otherwise desperately attempt to supply the troops they have after a number of previous operations.  With the inability to reinforce Galtor III, the situation looks grim for the militia there.

FWL forces again experience confusion as Parliament continues to deny valuable funding to the Captain General. 

The 10th Skye Rangers have an aborted raid on Stewart with the LC.  The 1st Regiment of the 12th Star Guards raid Oliver successfully, badly damaging local infrastructure and making fools of the 18th Marik Militia.

The Periphery stays quiet... again.  Rumours of their special operatives engaging in any activity are highly suspicious, and discounted by the Successor States.
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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #12 on: 09 June 2018, 15:27:16 »
After the siege of Galtor and Mozirje is complete, I will start posting only every 3 or 4 turns in order to speed everything up a bit. 

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #13 on: 10 June 2018, 21:35:16 »
Cap Con continues to recover from raiding. 

the DC unleashes the Dragoons; striking 4 border worlds for supplies, with mixed success.  Terrorist strikes paralyze the populace of Marduk from DEST agents.
On Mozirje, the siege is broken due to the fact that the Night Stalkers were unable to be supplied, nor the 17th Rasalhague Regulars.  The exhausted 3rd Lyran Regulars
support an attack by the 24th Arcturan Guard that shatters the 17th, especially as the Blackhearts mercenary group arrives on world, and deploys to horrific success.

With the St Cyr Heavy Assault group covering their retreat, the remnants of the Night Stalkers absorb the few survivors of the 17th, and reinforcing Helmut's Hermits are waived off before a drop.  Mozirje remains in LC hands with DCMS troops cursing their luck.  The entire loss of a Regular regiment is shocking to them, that LC troops could actually defeat and outmaneuver the Dragon. 

Meanwhile... on Galtor.  DEST teams fail to block Davion forces from arriving, and the 2nd Robinson Rangers engage a nearby pirate point in a risky maneuver that pays off;
they then proceed to drop their assault mech regiment right on top of the 2nd Legion of Vega, which somehow manages to withdraw in good order from the avalanche drop,
taking and receiving minimal damage.  With supplies unable to get through, and the 1st and 2nd Amphigean Light Assault Group arriving, the local DCMS commander decides
to withdraw from Galtor; his decision is fortuitous as the 1st Chisholm RCT also arrives in Galtor space and begins landing operations.  A frenzied withdrawal costs
the DCMS another 2 infantry regiments covering the retreat but in the end, what could have been a disaster ended up costing the DCMS naught but a few infantry regiments.

The costly venture however, enrages the Coordinator, frustrated that both assaults launched on his foes failed...

Federated Suns forces rejoice at the victory at Galtor.  A new series of raids strikes Capellan targets; this time, however, the Capellans are ready and most of the raids find little success, though some minor damage is inflicted on facilities at Ares. Redfield's Renegades express extreme frustration at their target, as it was heavily defended
compared to what their contract and intell had provided... a breach report is duly filed with Comstar.  Only the 9th Illician Rangers really experience a good raid, and are rewarded for their efforts; they steal the entire supply shipment for Stapleton's Iron Hand.
Federated raids on Draconis Combine facilities at Al Nair are similarly unsuccessful, though losses are far less. 

FWL has little occur other than yet another failed raid into Lyran space.

LC had the Stealthy Tigers raid Thermopolis.  Loki agents also sabotage facilities at Kalidasa and Savannah. 
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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #14 on: 11 June 2018, 08:07:12 »
Epic,  this is not quite what I was looking for in requestiing your view on how the game played but carry on.

Note that there is no rule for hunting Spec Ops teams. They will die off on their own and their use will likely settle down substatially and be used only when truly  needed to support military ops.  Otherwise you will soon be running around with very green and green teams.

Perhaps you could explain how Traits and Flaws are effecting your  game (we could take the rules topic by topic)? 

Apologies up front as I am experiencing connection issues here on the other side of planet earth so my attendance may be spotty.

Cheers
« Last Edit: 10 July 2018, 12:54:48 by The Purist »
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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #15 on: 11 June 2018, 09:29:33 »
Superior Combat Doctrine is what keeps the Fed Suns alive.  My goodness, even with low amounts of RP to spend, it allows the Fed Suns to be able to punch way above weight. 
As a trait, it's particularly powerful.  Even when a unit was out of supply, this trait allowed the unit to keep fighting. 

Now that we have tried out the beginning of a grand campaign like this, all the traits are far more magnified than playing a local brush fire war has been such as the Ronin War or the Andurien Secession.

Parliamentary Chaos particularly impacts the ability of the FWL in making decisions on fighting/defending in a given turn. 

As you had stated in a previous thread, mercs are by far the best units to use for raiding.  They also make it very convenient to gain xp... by engaging in live fire exercises with the enemy.  This was not the use that mercs had in the previous 2 brush fire fights we had, so it's been a learning experience.  It also has been demonstrated to my satisfaction that yeah, a merc unit against a house unit just loses, period.  Heck, the Narhal's Raiders couldn't even overcome a planetary militia before reinforcements arrived.

I would have to say that the weakest link by far in a traditional set up of Kapteyn vs FC is still the Capellan Confederation.  Raiding campaigns by the Federated Suns have continuously crippled their ability to produce RP, as more than half of all their best revenue producing worlds are within range of Fed Suns raids.  Even garrisoning those worlds with better troops has only marginally changed this. 

The DC and LC are RP super powers between them.  Whether State Run or Merchant King, after trade is accounted for, both have added MANY Combat Commands with no sign of stopping; it's getting a bit scary to see where they're going to be placing all these new mech units.  Neither has to worry about their expenditures on a given turn and both can support large investments in Intelligence ops, research or invasions.  The FWL has this on a good turn sometimes too.

That's a quick analysis so far, in a Grand Campaign sense.  Player feedback to follow.

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #16 on: 11 June 2018, 12:23:51 »
One Year of ISaW Play

Having now completed just shy of 15 months of game play (Apr 3019 – Jun 3020) here are some observations, beginning with Traits and Flaws. With a couple of notable exception we stuck with the IO traits while adding the new Abilities/Flaws found in 2nd SW regarding Tech Development and Espionage.

Capella Confederation – The “State Run” trait help Laio with income but “Closed State” trait hurt the House with Morale Checks, Initiative and, the two traits together, make Tech DPs 35% more expensive. This is not as bad it as it may seem as the Economy is robust enough and can easily afford the military’s supply costs. This means more technology investments as well as expanding the military or replacing losses if done carefully. “Superior Black Ops” make sabotage missions easier and can impact the Confederations neighbour’s economies, further strengthening the CC position. Poison pill makes the absorption of original planets more difficult by a large margin and should not be underestimated. Taking a world with minor industry can take 8 months (+ a D6 -2 in extra months) to pacify,… provided the CC does not return with a force large enough to ‘reset’ the clock. So far our CC has only got into trouble by attempting to launch a major invasion of the FS without a supporting assault by the DC. We suspect that if the DC and CC can coordinate an attack with as little as 50% of their individual commands the FS will not be able to stop them.

Draconis Combine – “State Run” Economy is again a major bonus to the RP totals and makes the Combine a major economic power second only to the LC, even if it hurts initiative. State Run also applies a minor hit to DPs in research. Despite these draw backs the DC has managed to fight two defensive campaigns against its neighbours, fighting one to a draw without collapsing. The “Fanatic Offense” and “Fanatic Defence” traits are definitely a mixed blessing. The bonus to morale checks is welcome but the increased losses, especially against the Federated Suns (+20% damage) can hasten the mauling, if not the outright destruction of entire commands in an already brutal combat system.

Federated Suns – Strange as it may seem the FS gains no significant economic benefit to being a more “Open State” than the other realms. In fact, being a “Decentralized State” it receives a -20% penalty, which reduces its economy to just slightly above the level of the Capellan Confederation but with far higher operating costs. Open State also nullifies the bonus received under “Superior Counter-Intelligence”. The large military is largely unsustainable and heavy combat losses are welcome economic relief except for the fact that the FSs two neighbours can replace losses or even expand their militaries while the Federated Suns cannot. This lack of funds also impacts Intel and spec ops (almost eliminating them), further eroding the Sun's ability to sustain a conflict. The FS does well to maintain its starting strength by remaining on the defensive with offensive operations severely hampered by lack of RPs and therefore very narrow in focus. In the end, to avoid an FS bankruptcy we adopted the suggestion of our DC player who suggested +10% for “Booming Economy” considering the late SW ‘renaissance’ period we are in. We also added “Brightest Minds” operating at NAIS to help stretch the RPs the FS does receive.

Free Worlds League – “Parliamentary Chaos” lives up to its name and the element of chance introduced by the dice roll can make long term planning a bit of a guess. A few RPs can be recouped by a good roll of the die for supplies. “Merchant Kings” is cancelled by “Decentralized State” so no joy there. “Supply Problems” adds +1 to supply costs for all commands which isn’t too bad if the size of the military is kept reasonable. Our FWL player opted for smaller commands, which seems a wise move as it helps control costs. “Inferior Black Ops” and the +1 to the TN makes Spec Ops a challenge and an aspect of the game that needs to be handled with care by the FWL (choice targets, carefully ‘developed’). Like the other powers, a focus on ‘counter-intelligence’ avoids the problem and is enough to hold off Spec Ops and Intel from foreign threats.

In 15 months our League player has seen +5% once, +10% once, -5% three times, -10% seven times and -15% three times. The result is one frustrated “Captain-General”.

Lyran Commonwealth – “Merchant Kings” combined with a large factory base and nearly 430 ‘other’ worlds makes for a very powerful Lyran Commonwealth. Losses are replaced more easily and more new commands can be built than by other Houses. Or, as in our case, the LC simply started adding new factories (with forts) to further extend their economic lead (7 new minor ind. In 15 months). Once trade is added to the Merchant King trait the LC easily exceed 2400 new RPs per month. The “Flawed Doctrine” flaw does impact combat but when fighting the DC under the effects of Fanatical Offence/Defence the -10% damage for Flawed Doctrine is nullified. The effects are further reduced if the command is veteran or better. Like the DC the LC can fight major campaigns and replace losses on more than one front at a time.

“Superior Black Ops” help keep the DC and FWL (in particular) on their toes guarding transport routes and infrastructure.

GM Additions

As we based the at start forces on the 3025 OoB found in the original House source books the FWL was also compelled to deploy ‘provincial’ commands that are restricted in what they can do and how many losses they can suffer before being recalled. The Anduriens can only deploy one command more than one jump from the duchy’s borders,... These commands are large and powerful. Regulus must retain two commands at home and most of the other provinces retain one or two commands. The commands allowed to freely work with federal commands are also limited to 50% (opposition provinces) or 75% (pro-Marik) casualties before recall for rebuilding. The rebuilding must be done within the borders of the province if a replacement command is to be sent forward. The “Captain-General” can negotiate with the GM for additional support in times of emergency (the Anton Marik rebellion of 3015 for example) but there is a cost for these extra commands (priority on replacement, locating future new factories, etc.). 

The three minor periphery states are GM run and are limited in what they can and cannot do. They exist to pose mild irritants to House periphery borders with the odd raid or by Spec Ops teams looking out for a chance to steal tech. Their money is very limited, even more so after 2nd SW rules are added, so raids are limited and come with a risk of House retaliation.
« Last Edit: 10 July 2018, 12:57:27 by The Purist »
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worktroll

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #17 on: 11 June 2018, 13:55:47 »
One of the issues in the original design was trying to replicate "historical" situations, which need not be balanced.

(Side note: a classic old wargame by Avalon Hill, called "France: 1940". With a reasonable player, it's entirely possible for the French player to see off the Germans and invade in their turn. In order to replicate the historical outcome, one has to impose on the French player the "Idiot's Game" rules - things like no stacking units, no combined attacks, no deploying near the Ardennes or the Maginot Line, etc.)

I am surprised that the FedSuns are weaker economically that "historically" - although how much of that perception may be Davionista propaganda, I can't tell ;) The Feds were never "merchant princes", and mobilising for the 'real' 4th SW gutted their economy due to diversion of merchant shipping to support the military.

It is (and was) impossible to do repeated full playtests on ISaW, even more so to have the designers do so - we don't see our own blind spots. So I'm really appreciating the feedback.

Play on!

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Iracundus

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #18 on: 11 June 2018, 17:43:54 »
Could the FS have survived with Inferior Doctrine during the 1st SW then?  I ask this because in the description for Inferior Doctrine it gives the FS of that era as an example, yet strangely enough it is not listed for the FS in the 1st SW scenario faction abilities.

epic

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #19 on: 11 June 2018, 23:49:30 »
Feedback so far from players is:

Fed Suns: Superior Combat Doctrine provides the FS with the ability to fend off invasions easily.  The damage inflicted via militia is great, and leaves any counter-offensive easy.  The lack of economy means that the FS must scrounge for RP wherever possible, and the best way to do it is by taking it from the enemy, while also removing their ability to produce.  This was first done to the Capellans, but supply raids by merc forces on both borders makes it easy enough.  The Brightest Minds trait was also given to them, and it has sped research.  Morale bonuses again on the defence prevent easy attacks on the FS, but the lack of RP mean that it is difficult to mount offensives (not to mention the overall lack of JS; set up was given to have a slightly less than average amount of JS for House units in the FS).  RP Juggling is a fact of life in the FS; supplying troops only in areas where I know they won't be attacked, while making sure to engage in sustained neglect.

Capellan Confederation:  State Run is all that is keeping me alive (quotes the CC player).  Without the bonus RP, I'd be dead in the water.  If the FWL also raided/attacked me, the CC would be dead.  Every single factory world in the CC is within raiding distance of the FWL and FS; if both sides simply engaged in economic warfare, the CC would lose funding for most of their troops.  Due to the lack of RP, and research penalties for closed state and State Run, research is just not something progressing at any level of speed.  At least the morale penalties against desertion mean that nothing occurs there. 

DC player feedback was:  DC is by far the easiest power to play.  Strategic depth, lots of RP, and fanatical offense and defence allow lots of flexibility to play style.  Oddly, I can afford to spend more on research than anyone else, I think other than the LC (even with the slight penalty from State Run), and I have better units to start with as well.  Also, the standard DC combat command having 3 aero is a major advantage.  Almost every battle the DC has engaged in, the air has either been what has helped win the battle, or saved a unit from utter destruction.   

Haven't had responses from the LC or FWL yet. 
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The Purist

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #20 on: 12 June 2018, 02:29:30 »
I noted you mentioned all Capellan factories are within range of raids. You may wish to review the rules section in more detail. Commands have only four orders points to use -

- One orders point is required for the raid mission, 
- One move order would be needed to move to an ajacent hex
- One move order required to close with the planet.

Assuming one order point is not required for an attack this would limit raids to just two hexes from the Command's base.

Also review the tables on page 359. The +4 from pirate point use only applies to the insertion table only and not the Raid Success table. Most positive modifiers amount to only +1 or +2, making results "iffy". Raids, quick method or detailed, are dangerous affairs and, in our experience, fail as often as they succeed.  They are also not always very lucrative, supply costs for a raid will equal 22RP. We also noted that while a very successful raid might net 20 RP from an "other" planet, the loot represents stealing anything of value and adding it to the attacker's RP pool. However, there is nothing in the rule that reduces the target RP total for the following month. This makes sense as a planet cannot be looted for more than it produces (you cannot steal next month's production before it is produced).

That's our interpretation of the rules at any rate. The rules are a bit thin and rely heavily on "common sense" approaches to their application. We should also be careful where rules are thin and rely on the rules as written to fill in the blanks for these grey areas.

To be honest,  something as complex as advSBF,  Scaled SBF, ACS and ISaW should almost have a book of their own but I understand why the publisher went the way they did.  Perhaps a v. 2 might be possible in the future if/once game play reviews become more common.
« Last Edit: 10 July 2018, 13:04:41 by The Purist »
Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought upon the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

"...Remember also the two "prime directives" in playing BattleTech:
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Page 168 - Reunification War

The Purist

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #21 on: 12 June 2018, 07:20:27 »
One of the issues in the original design was trying to replicate "historical" situations, which need not be balanced.

(Side note: a classic old wargame by Avalon Hill, called "France: 1940". With a reasonable player, it's entirely possible for the French player to see off the Germans and invade in their turn. In order to replicate the historical outcome, one has to impose on the French player the "Idiot's Game" rules - things like no stacking units, no combined attacks, no deploying near the Ardennes or the Maginot Line, etc.)

I am surprised that the FedSuns are weaker economically that "historically" - although how much of that perception may be Davionista propaganda, I can't tell ;) The Feds were never "merchant princes", and mobilising for the 'real' 4th SW gutted their economy due to diversion of merchant shipping to support the military.

It is (and was) impossible to do repeated full playtests on ISaW, even more so to have the designers do so - we don't see our own blind spots. So I'm really appreciating the feedback.

My Gawd,....France 1940 was the first war game I ever played.  A friend had a copy way back in 1974 and I have never stoppd war gaming since then.  I've played some monsters in my day but the Avalon Hill games were always my favourites.

I suspected play testing may have been an issue as we examined the rules throughout late 2016 before making the transition to the full game last September. As ACS and ISaW are clearly war games one can see where they tried split the difference between BT and grand strategy. Some rules are generally too complex/cumbersome for a grand campaign but these can be set aside.  Biggest issue with the rules is they need more depth. There are just too many places in the 20 odd pages of rules where players need to guess what is meant.  Experience with war gaming might help the old hands but folks less familiar with the genre may end up with unrealistic solutions to the numerous gaps.

Perhaps we can fill these gaps as we go along with this discussion.    :)
« Last Edit: 12 June 2018, 07:25:49 by The Purist »
Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought upon the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

"...Remember also the two "prime directives" in playing BattleTech:
1. HAVE FUN
2. DON'T LET YOURSELF GET SO CAUGHT UP IN THE RULES THAT YOU STOP HAVING FUN"
Page 168 - Reunification War

The Purist

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #22 on: 12 June 2018, 07:37:48 »
Could the FS have survived with Inferior Doctrine during the 1st SW then?  I ask this because in the description for Inferior Doctrine it gives the FS of that era as an example, yet strangely enough it is not listed for the FS in the 1st SW scenario faction abilities.

That would depend on the expenses. If the economy uses 90% of its RP just for basic supply the DC might not stop until they reach Tortuga. As territory is lost the cash problem becomes worse. A combined DC/CC offensive might be able to topple the FS and still hold off the FWL and LC. Much would depend on how much strength the DC/CC alliance would need to leave behind to cover the invasion.
« Last Edit: 10 July 2018, 13:06:39 by The Purist »
Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought upon the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

"...Remember also the two "prime directives" in playing BattleTech:
1. HAVE FUN
2. DON'T LET YOURSELF GET SO CAUGHT UP IN THE RULES THAT YOU STOP HAVING FUN"
Page 168 - Reunification War

ScrapYardArmory

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #23 on: 12 June 2018, 07:45:53 »
Very cool recap of the game so far.  I was wondering what system you were using to resolve combat?  Are you using ACS?

Iracundus

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #24 on: 12 June 2018, 09:06:10 »
That would depend on the expenses. If the economy uses 90% of its RP just for basic supply the DC might not stop until they reach Tortuga. As territory is lost the cash problem becomes worse. A combined DC/CC offensive might be able to topple the FS and still hold off the FWL and LC. Much would depend on how much strength the DC/CC alliance wod need to leave behind to cover the invasion.

I thought the DC was carving through the FS in the 1st SW, right up until Minoru Kurita got shot. 

One big thing I think that is missing from the system is the effects of individual major political figures, and how their exploits or deaths can throw a wrench into the cold economics of the raw RP numbers. 

Having the leader of a House on the front lines might provide bonuses but risk loss.  Loss might then result perhaps in temporary paralysis until the new leader settles in, and the successor might have different personality (and bonuses) compared to their predecessor. 

Perhaps aside from combat bonuses, certain leaders might be more inspirational or economically focused, leading to some extra RP squeezed out.  For the FWL, perhaps a bonus (or penalty) to Parliamentary Chaos rolls, representing greater or lesser ability to secure funding. 

I want the full House Lord experience

epic

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #25 on: 12 June 2018, 09:27:38 »
I noted you mentioned all Capellan factories are within range of raids. You may wish to review the rules section in more detail. Commands have only four orders points to use -

- One orders point is required for the raid mission, 
- One move order would be needed to move to an ajacent hex
- One move order required to close with the planet.

Assuming one order point is not required for an attack this would limit raids to just two hexes from the Command's base.

Also review the tables on page 359. The +4 from pirate point use only applies to the insertion table only and not the Raid Success table. Most positive modifiers amount to only +1 or +2, making results "iffy". Raids,  quick method or detailed, are dangerous affairs and, in our experience, fail as often as they succeed.  They are also not always very lucrative, supply costs for a raid will equal 22RP. We also noted that at while a very successful raid might net 20 RP from an "other" planet,  the loot represents stealing anything of value and adding it to the attacker's RP pool.  However,  there is nothing in the rule that reduces the target RP total for the following month. This makes sense as a planet cannot be looted for more than it produces (you cannot steal next production before it is produced).

That's our interpretation of the rules at any rate. The rules are a bit thin and rely heavily on "common sense" approaches to their application. We should also be careful where rules are thin and rely on the rules as written to fill in the blanks for these grey areas.

To be honest,  something as complex as advSBF,  Scaled SBF,   ACS and ISaW should almost have a book of their own but I understand why the publisher went the way they did.  Perhaps a v. 2 might be possible in the future if/once game play reviews become more common.

Yup.  Well aware of the movement rules. 

St. Ives, Tikonov, Styk, Indicass, Ares, Grand Base, Sarna and Nanking are all within 2 of the FS border.  If the FWL is hostile in 3025, every hex of the CC that I can see is within 2 hexes of a hostile border.

Also aware of the insertion rules.  Choosing to use even Regular units with light assets gives a +1, and making them veteran brings it to a +2.  That means an average roll gives a raid success.  Adding pirate points almost guarantees a success on the insertion roll in the meantime. 

Assuming the CC starts garrisoning these worlds with good units reduces this, of course.  However, the raid success is based on "average" experience of the defending units, which means that the few elite/veteran units that garrison these worlds if they don't share the garrison with Regulars will end up being overwhelmed by a full assault instead.  But if they share the garrison, then their experience is watered down in regards to raid results. 

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epic

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #26 on: 12 June 2018, 09:29:28 »
Very cool recap of the game so far.  I was wondering what system you were using to resolve combat?  Are you using ACS?

ACS for combat.  Simplified Raid system for raids, however.

Headhunting is brutal sometimes, btw.  If you want to destroy a unit, send in forces to headhunt.  It may damage the unit that is attacking, but it KILLS the unit you are assaulting if you have good intell.
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Alsadius

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #27 on: 12 June 2018, 10:42:17 »
I don't know ISaW rules, and I'm only understanding half of what you're saying, but even still I'm loving this thread on principle. Thanks for the AAR.

(Side note: a classic old wargame by Avalon Hill, called "France: 1940". With a reasonable player, it's entirely possible for the French player to see off the Germans and invade in their turn. In order to replicate the historical outcome, one has to impose on the French player the "Idiot's Game" rules - things like no stacking units, no combined attacks, no deploying near the Ardennes or the Maginot Line, etc.)

Side side note: I'm reading an excellent alt-hist story right now where the French are slightly less stupid in 1940, and it's interesting to see what changes.

The Purist

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #28 on: 12 June 2018, 11:53:44 »
I thought the DC was carving through the FS in the 1st SW, right up until Minoru Kurita got shot....<snip>.... Iwant the full House Lord experience

Well, according to First Succession War they were. The fiction then introduced the Kentares Massacre and the authors had plot device to save the Suns. That said, trying to superimpose individual leaders into a game of grand strategy is open to lots of "gamey" tactics. Leadership abilities are in the game but are based on the force commander's rating and a force commander's loss could have serious impact on that battle,  the effect is, correctly in my view,  purely local and temporary. If the game was more along the scale of Napoleonic's there might be scope for leadership loss impacts on a battlefield scale but I doubt it would really work at the "galactic" level.
« Last Edit: 10 July 2018, 13:09:01 by The Purist »
Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought upon the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

"...Remember also the two "prime directives" in playing BattleTech:
1. HAVE FUN
2. DON'T LET YOURSELF GET SO CAUGHT UP IN THE RULES THAT YOU STOP HAVING FUN"
Page 168 - Reunification War

The Purist

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Re: ISaW Game, epic style
« Reply #29 on: 12 June 2018, 12:25:29 »

....Assuming the CC starts garrisoning these worlds with good units reduces this, of course.  However, the raid success is based on "average" experience of the defending units, which means that the few elite/veteran units that garrison these worlds if they don't share the garrison with Regulars will end up being overwhelmed by a full assault instead.  But if they share the garrison, then their experience is watered down in regards to raid results.

I understand what you are saying but the average raid against an industrial target (minor in this example) will usually cost the raider more than the raided.   :))

Take your example of a veteran raiding force of two light Mech companies. Assuming they don't vanish in a pirate point accident they  will likely land safely facing equal PV defenders drawn from tanks and infantry, on a lucky planet maybe a company of Mechs plus tanks.

If using the quick method the plus two for light raiders and veterans and an average die roll will net 50% losses to the attacking force and a roll on the raid results table with a -2 modifier. An average dr here nets a final result of 3 and 25% of the output (6RP on our mythical minor ind. centre). Compare this bounty to the 22RP it costs to provide combat supply to the merc or equal size small house unit. As you can see the costs greatly out weigh the benefit of the raid other than to offset the final balance of RPs by month end.  That can be a justification in itself but for the fickleness of the dice.  ;)

Dice being dice they will just as often take as much as they give and we have learned that raids are double edged swords and used with care, especially by the cash poor CC and FS.

Your mileage may vary,  of course.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: 10 July 2018, 13:11:14 by The Purist »
Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assault of thought upon the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

"...Remember also the two "prime directives" in playing BattleTech:
1. HAVE FUN
2. DON'T LET YOURSELF GET SO CAUGHT UP IN THE RULES THAT YOU STOP HAVING FUN"
Page 168 - Reunification War