Author Topic: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle  (Read 224908 times)

mbear

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #120 on: 21 March 2017, 06:30:34 »
But does it have sharks who's brains are made out of dynamite?
No but I'm pretty sure they have frikkin' laser beams in their frikkin' heads. (That stolen Manei Domini tech has to be good for something.)
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #121 on: 21 March 2017, 07:47:32 »
No but I'm pretty sure they have frikkin' laser beams in their frikkin' heads. (That stolen Manei Domini tech has to be good for something.)

And now I have this image of WOB remnants releasing cybernetically modified critters on multiple worlds in their latest terrorist campaign.  That idea alone is worth a year of SyFy "Monster of the week" movies!

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #122 on: 21 March 2017, 08:10:31 »
Someone who got a little too frisky with the Iron Wombs.   :D

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #123 on: 21 March 2017, 09:28:43 »
But...how would you even...is there, like, a port?...I'm so confused right now!

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #124 on: 21 March 2017, 10:49:08 »
There are a handful in various stages of development.
Sure, but they've never been offered in print. #1 complaint for all our electronic publications, is that people want them in print, and that's the the purpose those compilations fulfill.

That's fine by me. I am fully aware that many folks on this forum prefere DTF products.
I just wanted to know if we can expect new TPs at all.
And as I have my official answer now I am satisfied.  :)

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #125 on: 21 March 2017, 12:55:10 »
I had this idea to submit the name of a tube artillery-focused group of very devout Christians named in honor of Adrian, but I don't think he'd let me get away with Gideon's Bible Thumpers.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #126 on: 21 March 2017, 13:06:10 »
All right. The latest discussion on raids, infantry composition, and meat grinder worlds is really making me pine for official macro-fiction that goes into 'what's normally expected' for these things. You go into interstellar travel in the Conducting a Raid in the Universe primer of the Boxed set, but you don't do anything about 'What you should expect when you get there, normally'.

I mean, I've personally been playing around with the idea that there are large enough air forces on any world that can scramble to intercept a ship that's finally been detected in orbit, and that there're enough offensive ships in the raid to shepherd the ground raiders to the surface and keep Top Gun off their backs.

But, maybe that's not the case? How much does Neo-Feudalism play into who gets to defend the target? Does the noble owning a potential target site get first dibs? If he doesn't feel up to it, can he call upstairs to the planetary guard? Would he have to hire out a rival's forces and put up with the public shame?

As far as I know, this aspect really hasn't been covered in a product yet. If I'm off, someone point me in the right direction.

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Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #127 on: 21 March 2017, 14:40:45 »
As far as I know, this aspect really hasn't been covered in a product yet. If I'm off, someone point me in the right direction.

It's actually been covered a few times.  Problem is, under different regimes and the "master viewpoint" for the universe doesn't always stay constant over the many years BT has been published.

Some books to review some of the things you've been mentioning:

Mercenaries Handbook (there's been a series of these, I'm partial to the original.  You'll not find a better source on info about raiding procedures)
Combat Operations (an update to the older Merc's HB, expanding particularly into massive campaigns as set in the Civil War era)
Strategic Operations (issued by the current regime of TPTB)

For issues about interplanetary travel, I'll never be convinced that anything trumps the seminal Dropships & Jumpships.  (even though SO largely picks directly from this source on this subject)
« Last Edit: 21 March 2017, 14:42:59 by Tai Dai Cultist »

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #128 on: 21 March 2017, 15:00:19 »
The original Objective Raids?

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #129 on: 21 March 2017, 15:04:56 »
It won't help you plunder Grand Union Battle Works.
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Daemion

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #130 on: 21 March 2017, 15:21:47 »
Combat Operations (an update to the older Merc's HB, expanding particularly into massive campaigns as set in the Civil War era)

Not to be confused with the advanced optional rules book?  #P

Other than StratOps, a lot of those are very dated sources.


edit: And, I'd still prefer a newer, supported product that goes into a blurb about 'General Level of Preparedness'.



« Last Edit: 21 March 2017, 15:24:51 by Daemion »
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #131 on: 21 March 2017, 15:28:40 »
Other than StratOps, a lot of those are very dated sources.

Old sources are the best sources, says the Grodnard!

But, despite being old, they're the bedrock of the corpus of canon.  I like to think I prioritize those sources for that reason rather than just being an 80s grognard :D  And in many cases, their information is outright reprinted in condensed or modified form.  Info from DS&JS about transit from jump point to planet is reprinted almost word for word (certainly with the same illustration, at least) in SO & Inner Sphere at a Glance (both are "modern" CGL products).  ISaaG also incorporates info from Mercs' HB when it discusses the prosecution of various missions.. just in condensed form.
« Last Edit: 21 March 2017, 15:31:25 by Tai Dai Cultist »

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #132 on: 21 March 2017, 16:34:58 »
Yeah, I remember those being rehashed in the FM: Mercenaries, too. But, they don't go into 'what can you expect at the other end'. It's almost as if they expect you're familiar with all the other sources, and that's difficult to do, especially with a lot of sources out of print.

I was overjoyed at Combat Manual: Mercenaries, because I was expecting at least a small sentence or paragraph explaining each unit's origins. Sadly, there were still a handful that I had no idea how they got started. Lindon's Battalion seems to come to mind, but I'm not positive. They were few, I only recall feeling disappointed 5 times. But, I don't recall which all, because there are so many. (Aside: did the mystery of Wylie's Coyotes ever get solved?)

I don't have the old Merc Handbook. At some point, I suppose I can pick up the PDF, but I don't sit well in front of a computer screen for long hours reading. I prefer to recline when reading something in-depth.

Not only is it dating of the source material and equivalent access, but I seem to see a schizophrenia regarding force composition regarding Mechs and other stuff. They want to encourage players to feel they have control with whatever force they're playing with, but the opposition seems rather lacking. If the hinting at large numbers of forces is to be believed, and you're using the same force in a lot of games, or someone is willing to play opfor for a campaign for said force, then there seem to be a lot of Mechs and tanks and other things readily available.

Mechs being scarce makes for a boring universe, but if done right, that means your MechWarriors really are the King- and Queen-shits of any world they land on. Lots of enemies to shoot at makes something like interplanetary raids require a lot more support and prep for even something as small as a lone warrior to go bounty-hunting.

I know which way I would prefer, but I wish the guys in charge would pick one and run with it. I would gladly bow to that. Or, heck, set up competing BT realities. You can have the world where Mechs are scarce, and planets seeing a large war resort to massive local builds of vehicles and militiaMechs, which are always outperformed by even the most intro BattleMech. You could have a world where Mechs are actually dime a dozen due to constant output and surplus over a century or two of really low brushfire conflicts, and numerous merc bands can be found on any planet along side noble retinues and rebel idealists. And, you can even have a world where everything is scarce accept where things are hoarded at the capitals.

But, if you go the multiverse route, each would have to be supported in some fashion, if only with a blurb at the start of the Campaign Ops: Supplemental and some suggestions on how to style your campaigns off each different Universe.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #133 on: 21 March 2017, 22:55:42 »
Did you ever check out the Objectives series of pdfs? Those had pretty good sections describing what kind of forces you could expect to find defending any given planet(in addition to any regular military units stationed there), scaling up or down based on a world's importance, and the presence of major manufacturing or training facilities.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #134 on: 22 March 2017, 08:12:17 »
Did you ever check out the Objectives series of pdfs? Those had pretty good sections describing what kind of forces you could expect to find defending any given planet(in addition to any regular military units stationed there), scaling up or down based on a world's importance, and the presence of major manufacturing or training facilities.
I wish the Object books had been more successful.  I personally would have liked to have seen a Objectives: 3132 or 3145 version of those PDFs. We need those books more in Dark Age time line than in Jihad era.

I think they lacked a lot details to make them more usable. I know there was limited budget for these books to be made.

A lot guys i know whom used those books wanted the crunchy details where stuff is made so they could raid them for those components never mind Mechs/vehicle etc.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #135 on: 22 March 2017, 10:10:29 »
I think they lacked a lot details to make them more usable.

My understanding was that the "Objectives" series basically shattered the mind of the first writer or two because of the amount of detail involved. They pre-date my involvement as a contributor by a few years, but the story I've heard that's been passed down is that they were a fact-checking and canonicity horror show.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #136 on: 22 March 2017, 10:27:04 »
That was my understanding as well. Even if the series was immensely profitable(i have no clue), had they done another run they likely would have run out of trusted writers willing to work on them long before they got all the factions done.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #137 on: 22 March 2017, 10:40:20 »
So....don't do them by faction?  Seriously, make them like Touring the Stars.  For example, Objectives: Keystone would focus on just Keystone, illustrating Earthwerks-FWL's Rochester Mountain facility (the single largest 'Mech factory in the Free Worlds) and Exeter Organization's Medway tank factory.  Discuss the size, layout, location, output, and defenses of those facilities.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #138 on: 22 March 2017, 10:44:30 »
Still a lot of work combing through all the relevant data, and you might end up with a half-page of text. Maybe even a full single page, if it's an important world.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #139 on: 22 March 2017, 10:45:37 »
I think he's saying to give them the Spotlight On treatment, except for manufacturing and production sites.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #140 on: 22 March 2017, 10:53:49 »
The writing wasn't the problem area. It was the data collection and fact checking which would still need to happen if it is in another product/format.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #141 on: 22 March 2017, 10:59:02 »
The whole "faction books don't sell" is something from the FASA days that no longer applies (like "TROs are huge moneymakers"), as it was all tied to how the line was produced, supported, ownership of the IP, size of the player base, and a myriad of other things. It could have been true (or not) 15 years ago, but continuously saying it during that time doesn't make it still true or that it will hold true in the future.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #142 on: 22 March 2017, 11:00:27 »
I'd be happy have generic thing, that said.  Laser Supplier, company etc, not necessary getting into ULTRA detail.  I can understand why the insanity of Cthulhu-Type Detail would be nightmare you don't want to waste human-man power on try put into a product.

If the recent Objective series was that bad, i can understand sadly why.   Frankly more generic one would be better if it were possible side they make certain style stuff verses where the components were made.  Generic doesn't require detail, but it's pipe dream i guess.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #143 on: 22 March 2017, 11:04:07 »
So....don't do them by faction?  Seriously, make them like Touring the Stars.  For example, Objectives: Keystone would focus on just Keystone, illustrating Earthwerks-FWL's Rochester Mountain facility (the single largest 'Mech factory in the Free Worlds) and Exeter Organization's Medway tank factory.  Discuss the size, layout, location, output, and defenses of those facilities.

Right, but as cavingjan pointed out, the issue is that you're also adding to the canon and continuity that future fact-check then has to sift through if something comes anywhere near that world. It's the bane of any BT product, or any successful product line that's been around for as long as BT has.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but as one of the people who does have to do that editing/fact-check sifting, I'm a fan of plot development forward and backward, not intensive, minutiae-driven drilling downward.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #144 on: 22 March 2017, 12:10:41 »
The whole "faction books don't sell" is something from the FASA days that no longer applies (like "TROs are huge moneymakers"), as it was all tied to how the line was produced, supported, ownership of the IP, size of the player base, and a myriad of other things. It could have been true (or not) 15 years ago, but continuously saying it during that time doesn't make it still true or that it will hold true in the future.

So are we starting on the 3150 House Books next?  :D

Maybe I'm in the minority, but as one of the people who does have to do that editing/fact-check sifting, I'm a fan of plot development forward and backward, not intensive, minutiae-driven drilling downward.

Just not too far backward. Trying to get BT rules for the Vietnam War is beyond the scope of the game, IMO.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #145 on: 22 March 2017, 12:21:12 »
So are we starting on the 3150 House Books next?  :D

They have begun a new series of House-specific books with the Combat Manual series.  Honestly I bought into the "House Books don't sell" rumors that circled the seemingly-reluctant release that finally happened with HB:HK.  I don't know if Ray is just giving the spin doctoring you'd expect from a PTB voicepiece or if it's actually not true that "they don't sell" is an artifact relevant only to FASA's reign.  That CGL has gone through the bother of establishing a new brand/line of faction-specific books and given indications they intend to carry it for two more factions is surprising to me, but I heartily encourage them.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #146 on: 22 March 2017, 13:02:56 »
TDC, it's not too late! If you look up now, you might see the joke as it passes overhead. :)
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #147 on: 22 March 2017, 13:07:40 »
TDC, it's not too late! If you look up now, you might see the joke as it passes overhead. :)

Nothing goes over my head.  My reflexes are too quick, I would grab it.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #148 on: 22 March 2017, 13:08:55 »
So are we starting on the 3150 House Books next?  :D
Joking aside: 3250 maybe, but not without a whole metric ton of groundwork first to make those products viable.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases: The Ninth Circle
« Reply #149 on: 22 March 2017, 13:09:43 »
Coming soon: Touring the Stars: Old Kentucky
« Last Edit: 22 March 2017, 13:21:25 by Adrian Gideon »
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