BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat

Catalyst Game Labs => BattleTech Game Errata => Topic started by: Xotl on 28 July 2015, 15:11:04

Title: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 28 July 2015, 15:11:04
This thread is for all error reports and suggestions for the MUL online database, as found at:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/

Some notes - read before posting:

 - How do I log in?  You can't.  The login is only for site administrators.
 - As this covers suggestions as well as errors, discussion is allowed in this thread.
 - This database does not include Dark Age availabilities for units published prior to TR 3085.
 - The entire Camospecs/Iron Wind Metals feature is still being worked on (as in: the entire way it works could change).  We're not going to be dealing with individual issues on this for a while.
 - Corrections not touching on the above are welcome.  However, please provide a page number and/or direct quote to support your case.  "Faction X should have this because I said so" is less than helpful and will likely be ignored.
 - If you have corrections for a unit entry, include a direct MUL link to the unit in question in your report.
 - If it's a BV or Alpha Strike stat correction, please enclose or attach your entire calculation and how you made it (by hand, SSW, MML, Heavy Metal etc; include version number of any software used).

Please keep your posts concise and polite.  Posts that do not follow these rules will be deleted.  Thank you.

WHAT IS THE MUL?
- The Master Unit List is a free product that contains the latest Battle Values, Alpha Strike stats, faction availabilities, and introduction dates for as many units in BattleTech as we can manage.

- The MUL is official and fully canonical.  At the same time, it's a living document, continually being updated to best reflect all available sources.

- If a unit appears on the MUL, then it exists.  This does not mean that said unit will ever see its stats published.

- That something is not on the MUL does not mean it doesn't exist.  Not every factory, vehicle and handgun in the universe has been documented, nor will they ever be.  The MUL is what we know to date: what has been documented in canon. 

- Unlike the MUL, Sarna.net is not a canon source.  If Sarna lists a unit and the MUL doesn't, then the MUL is most likely correct (though we certainly do make mistakes, which this thread is here to collect and correct).  The MUL has access to internal information that Sarna does not.



Project Updates:
Homeworld Clan and Late Succession Wars data is now available.
Star League and Early Succession Wars data is now available.
Alpha Strike PVs have been updated to the newest version.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 28 July 2015, 18:30:18
Quote from: Welshman
Thanks for these, Mordel. If you think you know where the error is, that would be helpful in our analysis. Often these turn out to be bugs in the code for MML or SSW.

Now that you say it, I only compared my calculations against MML. Checking SSW did help with a couple as they match what is in the MUL. They are as follows:

Grand Dragon DRG-9KC
You can ignore this one. I didn't notice the legs had different amounts of armor. When I change the right leg armor to 22 per the record sheet, my calculation is likewise 1,147. So the MUL is correct (sorry).

Hatamoto-Chi HTM-28T (Shin)
SSW calculates the sword BV to be 15.53. My calculations and MML calculate it to be 31.05. I don't believe SSW accounts for the TSM, doubling the damage of the sword and thus doubling the BV.

Mauler MAL-2R
Unfortunately, the BV for this between my calculations, SSW, and MML all match at 1,586. So perhaps what is in the MUL was just a typo?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 28 July 2015, 18:52:45
The Banshee BNC-8S (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/250/banshee-bnc-8s) has its Battle Value listed as 2,369 (which matches SSW). According to my calculations (as well as those from MML), the BV for this unit should be 2,408. The calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
==============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                           288 x 2.5 x 1               720.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ XL Engine): 145 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5  (+)    108.750  =   828.750
  Gyro (XL):                                  95 x 0.5             (+)     47.500  =   876.250
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                       
       Guardian ECM Suite                                          (+)     61.000  =   937.250
  Explosive Ammunition:                       2 Critical Spaces    (-)     30.000  =   907.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                  +3                   (*)       1.30  = 1,179.425
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                       1,179.425

==============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                       
       ER Large Laser                                                     163.000             
       ER Medium Laser                                             (+)     62.000  =   225.000
       ER Medium Laser                                             (+)     62.000  =   287.000
       ER Small Laser                                              (+)      8.500  =   295.500
       Hatchet                                                     (+)     57.000  =   352.500
       LB 10-X AC                                                  (+)    148.000  =   500.500
       LB 10-X AC (Ammo 10)                                        (+)     19.000  =   519.500
       LB 10-X AC (Ammo 10)                                        (+)     19.000  =   538.500
       Medium Laser                                                (+)     23.000  =   561.500
       Medium Laser                                                (+)     23.000  =   584.500
       Small Laser                                                 (+)      4.500  =   589.000
       Snub-Nose PPC                                               (+)    165.000  =   754.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                             (+)    142.500  =   896.500
  Speed Factor:                               8 (Run) + 0 (Jump)   (*)      1.370  = 1,228.205
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                       1,228.205

==============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                              1,179.425             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                         (+)  1,228.205  = 2,407.630
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                           2,408

The difference appears to be due to the fact that SSW calculates the hatchet at a BV of 28.50, whereas MML and myself have it calculated at a BV of 57.00. It appears SSW is not accounting for the increased damage due to TSM.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 28 July 2015, 21:23:26
[Snip]
Verified and updated. Thanks mordel.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 30 July 2015, 02:08:52
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6977/uni-atae-70m-cargomech-mod

This is listed as the "Uni ATAE-70M MilitiaMech" in the RSVA IndustrialMechs and Exoskeletons pdf on page 95. On page 228 of TRVA Revised, its also called a "MilitiaMech" rather than a "CargoMech MOD"

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/884/deva-c-dva-o-achilleus

On page 45 in Wolf and Blake (and on other pages, that's just the main), the character's name is "Achillius" His mech is named the same way. Change the name from "Achilleus" to "Achillius"
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 30 July 2015, 18:45:01
This is listed as the "Uni ATAE-70M MilitiaMech" in the RSVA IndustrialMechs and Exoskeletons pdf on page 95. On page 228 of TRVA Revised, its also called a "MilitiaMech" rather than a "CargoMech MOD"
changed.

Quote
On page 45 in Wolf and Blake (and on other pages, that's just the main), the character's name is "Achillius" His mech is named the same way. Change the name from "Achilleus" to "Achillius"
I left this one alone for now. The record sheet has it as Achilleus. I also found it in other places in the book as that. There is one more reference with it spelled as Achillius than Achilleus. There is no errata for it. I dropped a question for Ben in the ask the writers forum. Once we get confirmation either way, we can put it in the errata thread and, if needed, change the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 01 August 2015, 12:33:58
OK, with Homeworld Clan data now available during the Civil War and Jihad eras I've taken a look at the availabilities for all ProtoMechs and compared them with notes of my own. I found a few discrepancies which might be worth looking into. Keep in mind that most of my "sources" were RATs, since ProtoMechs were never really fluffed out one way or another.

Code: [Select]
ProtoMech   Era     Missing Faction
Satyr       Jihad   Snow Ravens (sources: Wars of Reaving Supplemental, FM:3085)
Satyr 2     Jihad   Snow Ravens (sources: Wars of Reaving Supplemental)
Satyr 4     Jihad   Snow Ravens (sources: Wars of Reaving Supplemental, FM:3085)

Centaur     Jihad   Hell's Horses (sources: Wars of Reaving Supplemental, FM:3085, Obj:Clans - mentioned as being in production)

Chrysaor 2  Jihad   Nova Cats (source: FM:3085)
Chrysaor 2  All     Wolf-in-Exile (source: Combat Equipment)

Roc         Jihad   Hell's Horses (source: Wars of Reaving Supplemental, FM:3085)
Roc 2       Jihad   Nova Cats (source: FM:3085)
Roc 2       Jihad   Society (source: Wars of Reaving Supplemental)

Delphyne    Jihad   Snow Ravens (source: Wars of Reaving Supplemental)

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 03 August 2015, 03:02:35
Found a simple typo tonight regarding the Batu [Z] (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3809/batu-z).

Among the listed specials is "VTOL"... which is not a valid Special.

suggested change: "VSTOL" (to match the other variants on the MUL)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 04 August 2015, 09:20:05
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5278/trident-trn-3v

This is listed as "Introductory" but the Record Sheet on page 319 of the RS3050U-C has it armed with ER and Pulse lasers.

Fix is to make it atleast Standard. That's what the Record Sheet says (or atleast it doesn't say anything other than "Inner Sphere"). The problem is the RS doesn't say how to make the design exactly, and the Fuel is listed as "3 points" which is obviously wrong. If that 3 points means tons instead, then I THINK the design has to be made with a small aerospace cockpit, which would make the design Advanced until 3081.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 August 2015, 09:29:13
"If rumors of a high-performance teleoperated version are to be believed, it is quite possible that the additional room normally taken by the cockpit could allow another laser system or even higher-grade weapons."

Drone perhaps? Checking, but yes, I'm thinking it needs Advanced at least.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 06 August 2015, 20:11:54
Found a simple typo tonight regarding the Batu [Z] (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3809/batu-z).
Fixed

GreekFire: I'll look into them.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 07 August 2015, 13:08:30
The Highlander HGN-694 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5493/highlander-hgn-694) has its Battle Value listed as 2,358 (which matches MML and SSW). According to my calculations, the BV for this unit should be 2,369. The calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
===========================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                       279 x 2.5 x 1                697.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ Light Fusion Engine): 138 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    155.250  =   852.750
  Gyro (Standard):                                        90 x 0.5              (+)     45.000  =   897.750
  Explosive Equipment:                                    2 Critical Spaces     (-)      2.000  =   895.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                              +2                    (*)       1.20  = 1,074.900
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                    1,074.900

===========================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                     
       Gauss Rifle                                                                     320.000             
       Gauss Rifle (Ammo 8)                                                     (+)     40.000  =   360.000
       Gauss Rifle (Ammo 8)                                                     (+)     40.000  =   400.000
       Gauss Rifle (Ammo 8)                                                     (+)     40.000  =   440.000
       Heavy Gauss Rifle                                                        (+)    346.000  =   786.000
       Heavy Gauss Rifle (Ammo 4)                                               (+)     43.000  =   829.000
       Heavy Gauss Rifle (Ammo 4)                                               (+)     43.000  =   872.000
       Heavy Gauss Rifle (Ammo 4)                                               (+)     43.000  =   915.000
       Heavy Gauss Rifle (Ammo 4)                                               (+)     43.000  =   958.000
       Large Laser                                                              (+)    123.000  = 1,081.000
       Large Laser                                                              (+)    123.000  = 1,204.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                          (+)     90.000  = 1,294.000
  Speed Factor:                                           5 (Run) + 0 (Jump)    (*)      1.000  = 1,294.000
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                    1,294.000

===========================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                           1,074.900             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                      (+)  1,294.000  = 2,368.900
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                        2,369

The difference is due to the fact that MML and SSW both calculate the explosive equipment penalty as -11 whereas I calculate it as -2. The reason for this is because only 2 critical slots of the HGR is located in the CT. The other 9 are located in the LT, which is protected by CASE. This situation is covered under the Critical Hits sub-section on page 136 of TW. Since the explosion happens in the side torso only (because of CASE), the damage would not transfer, and thus the 9 HGR slots in the side torso should not be considered for explosive equipment.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 09 August 2015, 06:59:27
The Highlander HGN-694 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5493/highlander-hgn-694) has its Battle Value listed as 2,358 (which matches MML and SSW). According to my calculations, the BV for this unit should be 2,369. The calculations are as follows:

Thanks. Corrected and updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 09 August 2015, 15:02:32
I'd like the Intro dates checked for the Rifleman RFL-3N and Rifleman II RFL-3N-2.

RFL-3N: 2770
RFL-3N-2: 2720

It seems to me that the RFL-3N should be around LONG before a "II" version of it is invented. The gap between the -2N's intro date of 2556 and the -3N's of 2770 seems pretty profound. This should perhaps be changed to around the time the RFL-3N-2 was introduced, with proliferation to the Member States at the original date of 2770.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 10 August 2015, 14:15:08
The Wolverine WVR-9K (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3581/wolverine-wvr-9k) has its Battle Value listed as 1,397 (which matches SSW). According to my calculations (as well as those from MML), the BV for this unit should be 1,420. The calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
==========================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                       185 x 2.5 x 1               462.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ Light Fusion Engine): 91 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    102.375  =   564.875
  Gyro (Compact):                                         55 x 0.5             (+)     27.500  =   592.375
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                                   
       Anti-Battle Armor Pod                                                   (+)      2.000  =   594.375
       Anti-Battle Armor Pod                                                   (+)      2.000  =   596.375
  Defensive Movement Factor:                              +3                   (*)       1.30  =   775.288
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                     775.288

==========================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                   
       Light Machine Gun (Ammo 100)                                                     0.500             
       Light Machine Gun (Array)                                               (+)      8.350  =     8.850
       Light Machine Gun (Array)                                               (+)      8.350  =    17.200
       Light Machine Gun (Array)                                               (+)      8.350  =    25.550
       Snub-Nose PPC                                                           (+)    165.000  =   190.550
       SRM 4                                                                   (+)     39.000  =   229.550
       SRM 4 (Ammo 25)                                                         (+)      5.000  =   234.550
       Sword                                                                   (+)     24.150  =   258.700
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                         (+)     82.500  =   341.200
  Speed Factor:                                           9 (Run) + 3 (Jump)   (*)      1.890  =   644.868
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                     644.868

==========================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                            775.288             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                     (+)    644.868  = 1,420.156
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                       1,420

This is due to the fact that SSW did not factor in the modified damage for the sword as a result of TSM.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: wantec on 10 August 2015, 14:18:26
Minotaur P2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4643/minotaur-p2), per TRO:Prototypes it has Magnetic Clamps, so it's AS card should have the MCS special ability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 10 August 2015, 14:23:29
Minotaur P2 fixed. thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 10 August 2015, 16:28:53
The Wolverine WVR-9K (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3581/wolverine-wvr-9k) has its Battle Value listed as 1,397 (which matches SSW). According to my calculations (as well as those from MML), the BV for this unit should be 1,420. The calculations are as follows:
Verified and updated. Thank you very much.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 11 August 2015, 01:37:46
crosscut (RL) and Crosscut (flamer) need 0* stats. (their weapons are weak, but do exist.)

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6973/crosscut-ed-x2-rl
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6972/crosscut-ed-x2-flamer

severla crosscut variants need cards generated.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4024/crosscut-ed-x4-loggermech
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7168/crosscut-ed-x4b-demolitionmech
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4025/crosscut-ed-x4d-demolitionmech
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7169/crosscut-ed-x4m-loggermech-mod
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4026/crosscut-ed-x4x-loggermech
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7170/crosscut-ed-x5m-loggermech-mod
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7171/crosscut-ed-x5m-b-demolitionmech-mod

(not sure if they're just waiting for cards or got overlooked)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 August 2015, 05:31:58
Most of vehicle annex IMs needs stats except those already in Operation Klondike.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 11 August 2015, 23:06:09
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6392/rokurokubi-rk-4t (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6392/rokurokubi-rk-4t)

Please review the Rokurokubi RK-4T damage line.  I believe it should be zero for the long range bracket.  It has a long range damage of 1, but is only equipped with a light AC/5 which does damage up to medium range.

If this correction is valid the point value should come down to 25 as well. 

Thanks

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 12 August 2015, 20:15:32
The Raven RVN-4LC is stealth armor on the reconrdsheet but not Stealth on the AS stats.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2667/raven-rvn-4lc
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 14 August 2015, 15:05:03
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/173/awesome-aws-11m (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/173/awesome-aws-11m)

Hello,

Another request for review.  The Awesome 11M has a OV value of 2, I believe this should be zero.

The design has a max heat of 42 (x8 LPPC @ 5 heat each, plus 2 running heat) and carries 20 DHS.

This would reduce the point value to 42 if it is correct.

Thank you
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 August 2015, 15:12:46
AWS-11M fixed, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 August 2015, 15:16:28
The Raven RVN-4LC is stealth armor on the reconrdsheet but not Stealth on the AS stats.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2667/raven-rvn-4lc

STL added, PV adjusted to 26.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 August 2015, 15:17:25
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6392/rokurokubi-rk-4t (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6392/rokurokubi-rk-4t)

Please review the Rokurokubi RK-4T damage line.  I believe it should be zero for the long range bracket.  It has a long range damage of 1, but is only equipped with a light AC/5 which does damage up to medium range.

If this correction is valid the point value should come down to 25 as well. 

Thanks

Correct, L and PV, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 16 August 2015, 20:58:06
The Seraph C-SRP-OR (Ravana) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2875/seraph-c-srp-or-ravana) has its Battle Value listed as 1,941 (which matches SSW). According to my calculations (as well as those from MML), the BV for this unit should be 1,957. The calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
=========================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                     256 x 2.5 x 1                640.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ Light Fusion Engine): 130 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    146.250  =   786.250
  Gyro (Standard):                                      85 x 0.5              (+)     42.500  =   828.750
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                                   
       Laser Anti-Missile System                                              (+)     45.000  =   873.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                            +2                    (*)       1.20  = 1,048.500
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                  1,048.500

=========================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                   
       Large VSP Laser                                                               123.000             
       Retractable Blade                                                      (+)     31.050  =   154.050
       Snub-Nose PPC                                                          (+)    165.000  =   319.050
       Thunderbolt 20                                                         (+)    305.000  =   624.050
       Thunderbolt 20 (Ammo 3)                                                (+)     38.000  =   662.050
       Thunderbolt 20 (Ammo 3)                                                (+)     38.000  =   700.050
       Thunderbolt 20 (Ammo 3)                                                (+)     38.000  =   738.050
       Thunderbolt 20 (Ammo 3)                                                (+)     38.000  =   776.050
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                        (+)    127.500  =   903.550
  Speed Factor:                                         6 (Run) + 0 (Jump)    (*)      1.120  = 1,011.976
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                  1,011.976

=========================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                         1,048.500             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                    (+)  1,011.976  = 2,060.476
  Cockpit (Small):                                                            (*)       0.95  = 1,957.452
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                      1,957

This is due to the fact that SSW did not factor in the modified damage for the retractable blade as a result of TSM.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: RotS fan on 16 August 2015, 21:04:12
AWS-11M fixed, thanks.
I believe that the OV2 was correct. The 11M has 4 ppc capacitators and it overheats considering them
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 16 August 2015, 21:17:20
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/alpha-strike-101/ppcs-with-capacitor-conversion/ (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/alpha-strike-101/ppcs-with-capacitor-conversion/)

Based on this conversation I found nothing about PPC with capacitors having special rules.  As such the conversion table in the AS companion lists LPPCs as 5 heat with 0.5 damage each. 

I did suggest one possible change

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-designs-rules/as-heat-for-ppcs-with-capacitors/ (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-designs-rules/as-heat-for-ppcs-with-capacitors/)

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 August 2015, 05:33:44
I believe that the OV2 was correct. The 11M has 4 ppc capacitators and it overheats considering them

I thought so as well (hence why it had OV2 in the first place). But both SO and ASC list the light ppc with capacitor as 5 heat. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 17 August 2015, 10:35:23
The Basilisk Quad-B (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5835/basilisk-protomech-quad-b) has an AS card with a 1/1/0 damage rating. Given that BQ-B is unarmed save for the melee weapon(WoR Supp, pg 43), shouldn't the damage be 0/0/0?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 17 August 2015, 10:58:56
Wulfen [E] (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6261/wulfen-e)

Current Damage for Alpha Strike 3/3/0*. 

Suggested Change: I believe the damage band should be 4/3/0*, which retroactively increases the PV by 1 (from 26 → 27)

Weapons
. 2@ATM3 (10 shots each) for 4 subtotal Heat
. . Damage Bands = 1.2/0.8/0.4
. 2@ERMedium Laser for 10 subtotal Heat
. . Damage Bands = 1.4/1.4/0
. . . Targeting Computer modifier x1.1
. . . . adjusted Damage Bands = 1.54/1.54/0
. MicroPulse Laser for 1 subtotal Heat
. . Damage Band = 0.33/0/0
. . . Targeting Computer modifier x1.1
. . . . adjusted Damage Bands = 0.363/0/0

. Base Damage = 3.103 / 2.34 / 0.4
. . or "4 / 3 / 0*"
15 Total Heat for Weapons

(Not enough heat to modify the damage down, but for clarity...)
(. 22 total dissipation {11 double heatsinks})
(. 15 weapon heat)
(. 10 stealth heat)
(. 2 engine heat)  correction: 4 engine heat (2 x 2; thank you Moonsword)
(. . 27 total heat 29 heat )
(. . . Short Range [4*22] / [27-4] [29-4)
(. . . . ~3.82608 ~3.52 )

Edit: corrections for heat
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 August 2015, 12:20:45
3.103 damage at short range, * 22 heat sink dissipation, /23 (27 heat build up -4) = 3.0.  That is enough to drop the 4 to a 3.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 17 August 2015, 13:23:31
The text is actually rather vague for calculating Heat-modified damage: the main problem is that it says to modify the "base damage values", (ASC p. 115) but there's no definition as to what that is.  On p. 99, where you first calculate your damage values, it says "At the most basic level" you round when calculating damage (ASC p. 99), and then, right after that, it says "the damage values determined here" are used if you have to modify for heat.

I can easily see why some would round up to the nearest whole number before applying heat, rather than after.  I'll see about adding clarifying notes to p. 99 and p. 115 (and I have to update my conversion spreadsheet, since I made the same mistake).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 August 2015, 13:54:12
There's two different points at which you round.
as part of heat modification (p115) = round up to nearest tenth.
final value (p99) = round to whole number.  (Up for standard damage values, normal for special abilities).

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 17 August 2015, 14:06:41
I've clarified my post, but it's more a question of the text being unclear as to when you make that first rounding at all, rather than a question of in what way you round.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 August 2015, 14:14:13
Ah, gotcha.  Yes, the rounded to whole number values should not then be heat-modified.  Heat-modification comes first.
It should also clarify the rounding to tenth in heat-modification happens even if the unit is otherwise not heat modified.

1. Total up all damage values.
2. Heat Modify as necessary for heat modified damage values.
3. Round damage values up to nearest one-tenth (even if not heat modified)
4. Round (up for standard, normal for special abilities) to nearest whole number for final damage values.

Step 3 is necessary even if damage values do not qualify to be heat modified because otherwise it's possible for heat to actually raise a damage value.  That would be silly :).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 17 August 2015, 14:25:47
Hmmm

I don't mean to argue with the process here, but I'd like point out that "OV" values have always been whole numbers.  The reason I think the way I converted is correct is because there isn't enough "heat reduction" to warrant an OV value.

In this example...
. Heat Multiplier = 22/23 ~ 0.9565217... lets just go with "0.957"  22/25 ~ 0.88
. Short Range Base Damage [SBD] (not-rounded) = 3.103
. . SBD x Heat Multiplier = 2.97   2.73064 ~ 2.731
. . 3.103 - 2.97 = ~0.133 3.103 - 2.731 = 0.372

I didn't think 0.133 0.372 was enough to grant "OV1"... nor reduce the damage below its original value (3.103 ~ 4)

And I'm not trying to be snarky, just speculative.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Moonsword on 17 August 2015, 14:29:46
Is that heat total supposed to use movement heat?  If so, maybe it should be 6 on the Wulfen, not 2 - it has an XXL engine.

I'm not able to look at my books right now so take that with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 17 August 2015, 14:34:46
Is that heat total supposed to use movement heat?  If so, maybe it should be 6 on the Wulfen, not 2 - it has an XXL engine.

I'm not able to look at my books right now so take that with a grain of salt.

oh crap, I missed that.  Sorry all :(
<recalculating...>


EDIT:  +2 heat didn't really change where I rounded (double engine heat for the conversion, page 115.  I will edit my previous posts.  Thank you MoonSword
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alexander Knight on 17 August 2015, 14:48:59

I didn't think 0.133 was enough to grant "OV1"... nor reduce the damage below its original value (3.103 ~ 4)


And yet, that 0.133 is more than the .103 that would have given a 4 in the first place.  If anything, it shouldn't have overheat OR a 4 damage value by this logic.  :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 17 August 2015, 14:54:20
And yet, that 0.133 is more than the .103 that would have given a 4 in the first place.  If anything, it shouldn't have overheat OR a 4 damage value by this logic.  :)

yeah.  I'm giving myself a headache over this one.  I'm sorry I'm not being very helpful guys :(
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 17 August 2015, 14:59:50
yeah.  I'm giving myself a headache over this one.  I'm sorry I'm not being very helpful guys :(

Don't worry about it: you made me realize I had made a mistake, and ensured the wording would be clearer in the future.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 August 2015, 15:20:55
Short damage has nothing to do with calculating OV.  OV is calculated based on whether or not Medium damage changes due to heat modification.  It doesn't matter if Short does or doesn't change.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 17 August 2015, 15:23:16
Short damage has nothing to do with calculating OV.  OV is calculated based on whether or not Medium damage changes due to heat modification.  It doesn't matter if Short does or doesn't change.

Yup.  I was going off the presumption that "OV 0" meant "full Short Range damage" which was (previously) 3.103... thus my initial post about the Wulfen.

I can see that I was wrong now (in my calculations).  Please disregard my request to update the unit.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 August 2015, 15:35:04
Will do, and don't worry about asking questions.  I only know what I know because people (Alexander Knight and others) kept pointing out my mistakes.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alexander Knight on 17 August 2015, 15:39:05
And as for me....waayyy too much time staring at the numbers and various conversions.  #P
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 17 August 2015, 16:22:44
(http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx72/LouieN/Misc/Wulfen%20E.jpg)

This is what I get for the Wulfen E.

The long range is a 0* because it is only .4 damage. The OV is zero as it is based ONLY on the medium range calculation.

So I have 3/3/0*

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 17 August 2015, 17:09:22
The Basilisk Quad-B (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5835/basilisk-protomech-quad-b) has an AS card with a 1/1/0 damage rating. Given that BQ-B is unarmed save for the melee weapon(WoR Supp, pg 43), shouldn't the damage be 0/0/0?
Yep. Fixed. Should update within the next 24 hours.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 17 August 2015, 18:58:56
Please review the Wulfen D and E based on the latest errata for XXL engine movement heat.

The D model I calculate a .53 damage at medium range. This would allow it to have 1 damage. 

The model E alters from my post above to a 3/2/0* with a 1 OV.

Point cost may alter to 25.

All other models were unchanged by the new heat.

Thanks

Any other XXL mechs to check?

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 August 2015, 19:18:02
The errata is the way the MUL team had been doing XXL engines. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 17 August 2015, 19:25:19
Still, I think he's right on both counts.  It looks like the Wulfen D would be 0*/1/0*, and the Wulfen E 3/2/0* with OV1.

Granted I'm still double-checking to make sure my sheet is right after the changes, but I'm getting the same numbers he is.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 17 August 2015, 20:23:40
I'm matching those values as well. I'm getting point values for the D and E as 20 and 26 respectively.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 17 August 2015, 20:35:46
[Pre-Errata] The XXL engine only counted for double Movement Heat, not +6 (as Walking MP in Standard BT)

On the Wulfen E, Movement Heat would be 4 (Engine +2, x2)

At Medium Range, the MicroPulse laser doesn't count (max range = short) which is why I calculated at Short Range to start with (mistakenly not Calculating Medium Range default)

. Medium Range Damage = 2.34
. Total Heat @Medium Range = 28
. Heat Dissipation = 22
. . Damage Multiplier = 22/(28-4) = 0.91666 ~ 0.9
. . . 2.34 * 0.9 = 2.106

2.1 rounds up to 3 @ Medium Range, OV 0.

[Post errata]
...22/(30-4) = 0.856 ~ 0.9... rounds the same? 0.846 ~ 0.8 (rounds down).  Finger slipped... thanks for the correction, Louie
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 17 August 2015, 22:00:02
For the Wulfen E it is...

22/26 = .846 X 2.34 = 1.98

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 18 August 2015, 09:42:26
Sooo... it looks like Wulfen "E" should have Damage Bands: 3/2/0*, OV1 ?

Retroactively changes the PV from 26 to 25?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 August 2015, 09:53:46
Note the micro pulse laser still counts for heat at medium range.  So it's 31 heat (-4).  But yeah, that just makes the medium range damage even lower.  So PV 25, 3/2/0*, OV1, changes coming up.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 18 August 2015, 10:19:23
First thanks to the MUL team as always, the above stats are correct

Just to provide the backup calculations on the little Wulfen E, nasty little guy, so people can see how we got to the above. 

(http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx72/LouieN/Misc/Wulfen%20E.png)

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 August 2015, 11:00:52
the Micro Pulse laser's heat still counts toward medium range calculations.  All weapons count toward short and medium, regardless of their own range limitations.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: wantec on 21 August 2015, 08:41:54
Coyotl A http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/713?skill=4

Move should be 14"j. Not sure at this point if it affects the PV.


Xotl: updated.  Costs raises to 34 points.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 21 August 2015, 09:58:22
the Micro Pulse laser's heat still counts toward medium range calculations.  All weapons count toward short and medium, regardless of their own range limitations.

nckestrel,

I am sorry.  I did not understand your statement earlier.  Now I see what you are saying.  I would just ask that this be clarified, because nothing in the AS companion suggest weapons contribute heat outside their range band.  Or at least I have not found it. 

Thanks for the clarification. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 21 August 2015, 10:28:51
It's not so much that it specifically states to use all weapons for non-Long-range OV as much as it says only to separate out Long and always refers to "maximum heat output" rather than any sort of segregated heat output.  But yes, it could be clearer.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 21 August 2015, 13:28:11
I agree. It could use more clarity for the crazy number cruchers.

  The "Heat-Modified Damage" paragraph talks about developing the modified damage per each range bracket
 With the "calculating Overheat Value" saying you use the medium, if avaliable, to determine the OV.

Also the "Determining Overheat" talks about it it "at a given range bracket"

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 23 August 2015, 18:55:12
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5228/thug-thg-11e-reich

Thug THG-11E (Reich): I believe the listed source TRO, Technical Readout: 3050 Upgrade, is incorrect as I can find no mention of it on the Thug's entry, p. 216.  Source should be Field Manual: Mercenaries Supplemental 2, p. 64.

-----

http://masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/268

Cover picture for Field Manual: Mercenaries is incorrect.  That is the cover of Field Manual: Mercenaries Revised.

-----

Also, I don't know if it's an error or just a limitation of the system, but searching for "Rubinsky" only brings up the Scorpion SCP-1N (Rubinsky) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4994/scorpion-scp-1n-rubinsky) and Archer ARC-2R (Rubinsky) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3722/archer-arc-2r-rubinsky).  To find the Rifleman variants Rubinsky 1 and Rubinsky 2, you have to search for "Rubinsky 1" and "Rubinsky 2" respectively.  Meanwhile, searching for "cat" brings up every unit with the letters c-a-t in the name.  (unchecking the BV box worked.  my bad.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 23 August 2015, 19:36:36
The Rifleman entries do not have BV. Uncheck the box for only units with BV
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 August 2015, 19:39:20
quo
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5228/thug-thg-11e-reich

Thug THG-11E (Reich): I believe the listed source TRO, Technical Readout: 3050 Upgrade, is incorrect as I can find no mention of it on the Thug's entry, p. 216.  Source should be Field Manual: Mercenaries Supplemental 2, p. 64.
correct. fixing. thanks.


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 23 August 2015, 20:11:00
Getting back to the faction data from GreekFire:

Satyr       Jihad   Snow Ravens (sources: Wars of Reaving Supplemental, FM:3085) - added
Satyr 2     Jihad   Snow Ravens (sources: Wars of Reaving Supplemental) - added
Satyr 4     Jihad   Snow Ravens (sources: Wars of Reaving Supplemental, FM:3085) - added

Centaur     Jihad   Hell's Horses (sources: Wars of Reaving Supplemental, FM:3085, Obj:Clans - mentioned as being in production) - added

Chrysaor 2  Jihad   Nova Cats (source: FM:3085) - added
Chrysaor 2  All     Wolf-in-Exile (source: Combat Equipment) - added Jihad only (give it at least a year before they make it to them)

Roc         Jihad   Hell's Horses (source: Wars of Reaving Supplemental, FM:3085) - added
Roc 2       Jihad   Nova Cats (source: FM:3085) - added
Roc 2       Jihad   Society (source: Wars of Reaving Supplemental) - they do not have the Roc 2. They have the Roc Z

Delphyne    Jihad   Snow Ravens (source: Wars of Reaving Supplemental) - added
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 23 August 2015, 20:59:47
*snip*

Hey, thanks a lot for the update cavingjan! Greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 24 August 2015, 08:15:36
Field Manual Mercs cover image fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 01 September 2015, 06:07:02
the Picaroon CSR-F100 is missing its image from TRO 3145 FWL

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6517/picaroon-csr-f100
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 01 September 2015, 19:48:54
Looks like the picture was moved. It's fixed now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Stinger on 02 September 2015, 08:13:13
Arctic Wolf II

As per this Errata: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/record-sheets-3085-unabridged/30/
And this Errata: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/technical-readout-3085-supplemental/

The Arctic Wolf II Prime should be swapped with the Arctic Wolf II A configuration.  Both the BV and the AS Cards should be swapped.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 02 September 2015, 18:23:38
Both the Uziel UZL-3S (Jacob) and the UZL-3S (Jacob II) are missing the Wolf's Dragoons from their faction availability.  Even as a Unique machine, their respective affiliation is pretty concrete.  The Jacob is also listed as "Extinct" in its era, which seems... odd, despite the existence of the Jacob II.  There has to be a better way to indicate that they never existed simultaneously than that.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 02 September 2015, 20:21:40
Most of the Jihad era Uniques do not have their secondary faction. I'm working on them (unfortunately slowly). I already have the Wolf and Blake mechs tagged.

(I'm also cleaning up and entries that are tagged as Extinct and Unique. They should just be Extinct. Dead is dead even if you were one of a kind.)

Thank you for bringing it up.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 02 September 2015, 20:38:53
There's gotta be a better way to mark that.  I hate to suggest adding more work for you guys, but perhaps an "Extinct" date, as well as an introduction date?  The way the MUL reads now, the Jacob never... actually existed.  It just popped as "Extinct" one day.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 02 September 2015, 21:22:37
In the case of Jacob, it would not kick in until the next era. No worries there. A unit doesn't get extinct in its first era of its existence. (Now that it is written I'm sure we will find some exception out there.)

Using Butterbee as an example,
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/479/catapult-cplt-c1-jenny-butterbee

The Unique tag should be removed for the Jihad and Extinct should be added to all later eras. That is how they will be handled.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 02 September 2015, 21:41:23
Yep, that's what I was hoping for.  I just noticed it while writing an article for the Uziel, and had to bring it up.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraith on 04 September 2015, 09:33:00
Hey all, hope this is going in the right place, and not sure if its errata or just something I don't understand yet.  Was in the process of putting together a Call to Arms force, and in picking the Naginata (any of the variants), there is no LRM#/#/# value in the special abilities.  Thanks for the answer when you get a chance, cheers!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 04 September 2015, 09:47:17
The Artemis makes it ineligible for LRM (or SRM in the case of Artemis with SRMs)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 05 September 2015, 10:15:19
The Lumberjack, specifically the MilitiaMech version (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7177/lumberjack-lm5m-militiamech) has some sort of error with the Alpha Strike card.  It won't display, and the direct link doesn't work.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 05 September 2015, 11:42:28
Looks like the only stats it has are the size. It shouldn't be trying to display a card.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 05 September 2015, 11:44:43
The Lumberjack, specifically the MilitiaMech version (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7177/lumberjack-lm5m-militiamech) has some sort of error with the Alpha Strike card.  It won't display, and the direct link doesn't work.
Same here:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7175/uni-atae-70t-cargomech
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7176/jabberwocky-jaw-67-militiamech

Something with those three unit numbers? (7175, 7176, and 7177)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 05 September 2015, 11:47:12
I don't think any AS stats were generated for Vehicle Annex except the ones that were found in Operation Klondike. I'll see if we can get some generated and we'll get them posted.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Eugee on 05 September 2015, 16:36:46
So I love the MUL, it's been very handy as a returning Battletech player getting into Alpha Strike!

Would it be possible to tweak/expand the search and results though?  When I'm trying to build a new force right now (I'm really new) the MUL is great for providing unit cards and filtering sources and such, but doesn't really help me narrow down unit choices.

So I wanted to build an Assault Lance, and I need 3 mechs of SZ 3+, all with at least 5 Armor, plus one Juggernaught or 2 Snipers.

All I can narrow down is the SZ (80-100 tons) and the role.  Using the 3050U as the only source, that kicks back 39 Juggernauts from 80-100 tons.  But I have no idea how much armor they have.  I can add each one to a force and then see a list of them that shows [A-S] S/M/L (OV), but that's tedious as heck, plus I still won't know their TMM, MV, or Special Abilities.  I'll have to open each unit individually just to see those stats on their card.

Frankly it makes the idea of building a force very off-putting.

Two changes I'd love to see to the MUL:  First would be to expand what you can filter by with Alpha Strike.  At the very least, TMM would be nice, but the more options the better.  Second, I really wish the results were more useful for picking units--meaning if they showed the stats that are listed when you add them to your force, including TMM/MV and Specials.

Even if we couldn't get the narrower filters, just having results that included those stats would make it a lot less daunting to pick out units for a force.  :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 05 September 2015, 17:52:17
And I just noticed this, the PV numbers are not showing on the faction/era view. The column is there but it is not being populated. Regular search results populate that column properly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 05 September 2015, 21:45:49
Quick question about Royals and their kin: would it be possible to give them a "reintroduction" date to go along with the original date they were introduced? It would be pretty handy for fluffy era play.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ConstableBrew on 06 September 2015, 03:59:25
~~I would LOVE to have the ability to search for special abilities of each mech. I have been trying to build a command lance where each member uses C3I or maybe C3M/C3S. To do this with MUL, I have to filter down to the list of mechs that seem to fit the role I want and then open every single one and check their specials.~~

*EDIT: Thanks Cavingjan and Moonsword.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 06 September 2015, 05:57:59
Use the Alpha Strike ability to find a lot of stuff. (C3, C3i, ECM, PRB, etc.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Moonsword on 06 September 2015, 06:03:33
Specifically, go to Units from the nav menu, click the Alpha Strike box, and you'll see an AS Abilities text field as in the screenshot below.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 06 September 2015, 07:56:38
The STL ability should be added to the assassin ASN-99 Alpha Strike card
The mech uses stealth armor according to RS3050U Inner Sphere.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/130/assassin-asn-99


Xotl: Corrected, PV increased to 24.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 08 September 2015, 14:21:39
I believe some of the "Salamandar Battle Armor" PVs somehow got played with (I have previously printed values that no longer match the MUL, but after inspecting the ASC errata, there should not have been a change).

[Anti-Infantry]: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2787/salamander-battle-armor-anti-infantry
10 PV for all 3 "CAR#" values (4, 5, 6)*

[Standard]: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2789/salamander-battle-armor-standard
11 PV for all 3 "CAR#" values (4, 5, 6) 

[Laser]: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2788/salamander-battle-armor-laser
10 PV for "CAR4" and "CAR5" cards, [and CAR6]
11 PV for "CAR6"; this card should also have a Short Range Damage value of 3. **



* = [Anti-Infantry] PV calculation (all 3 CAR#s)
. OFV = 4
. . (3+ 0.5*2 + 0) = 4
. DFV = MF + DSAF + DIR = 9.75
. . MF = 1.25
. . . 6"/8" = 0.75 + 0.5 (jump)
. . DSAF = 0.5
. . . 0.5 ~ Fire Resistant "FR" special
. . DIR = 8.0
. . . [(1*2) + (2*2)] * {1 + [1 + 1 (TMM) + 1 (Jump)]/10}
. . . . (6) * (1.3) = 7.8 ~ round to nearest half, or 8

Subtotal = OFV + DFV
. 4 + 9.75 = 13.75

Multiply subtotal by 0.75 (moves less than 10", doesn't deal at least 1 point of damage at Medium)
. 10.3125, round normal (down)

Total PV = 10



** = [Laser] CAR6 value calculation
. Damage = 0.52 @ Short Range
. Troop Factor = 4.5
. . Damage x Troop Factor = 2.34 ~ 3 damage @ Short Range

OFV = 5
. (3 + 0.5*2 + 0) + 1 HT
DFV = MF + DSAF + DIR = 9.75
. MF = 1.25
. . 6"/8" = 0.75 + 0.5 (jump)
. DSAF = 0.5
. . 0.5 ~ Fire Resistant "FR" special
. DIR = 8.0
. . [(1*2) + (2*2)] * {1 + [1 + 1 (TMM) + 1 (Jump)]/10}
. . . (6) * (1.3) = 7.8 ~ round to nearest half, or 8

Subtotal PV = OFV + DFV = 14.75
. 5 + 9.75

Multiply subtotal by 0.75 (moves less than 10", doesn't deal at least 1 point of damage at Medium)
. 11.0625, round normal (down)

Total PV = 11

EDIT: corrected by having values pointed out.  Thank you Pa Weasley!
[/size]
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 08 September 2015, 17:08:53
Recently found this errata that has not made it into the MUL.  The Cavalry (Infantry) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/503/cavalry-attack-helicopter-infantry) needs to be corrected and the Cavalry (BA) needs an entry.

Cavalry (Infantry), p. 21
duplicate the sheet, then modify the two:
  • remove 1 ton of infantry, increase MG ammo to 200
  • rename (BA) variant, remove 1 MG
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 08 September 2015, 19:08:29
[Snip]
With the errata to p.138
Quote
Page 138, Determine Unit's Offensive Value
Count all minimum damage values (0*) as 0.
Change to:
For a minimum damage value (0*) at Short or Long range, add 0.5. For a minimum damage value at Medium Range, add 1.
Damage amounts of 0* count as doing damage. Per ASC p. 141, units like all variants of the Salamander BA, that move 6" and can deliver damage at medium range do not need to have their final point values modified. There's no requirement that the unit can deliver a minimum of 1 damage, just that it delivers damage.  A recent update to battle armor listings in the MUL (you'll notice that there are BVs for 4, 5, and 6 man squads) caught these discrepancies and updated them. 

Quote
** = [Laser] CAR6 value calculation
. Damage = 0.52 @ Short Range
. Troop Factor = 4.5
. . Damage x Troop Factor = 2.34 ~ 3 damage @ Short Range
The Salamander (Laser) BA are equipped with a flamer, and ER micro laser, and a SRM 1 (OS) which do 0.2, 0.2, and 0.02 damage respectively for a total of 0.42. Times the troop factor for CAR6 (4.5) the raw damage value is 1.89 which rounds to 2.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 08 September 2015, 21:22:49
With the errata to p.138:
Damage amounts of 0* count as doing damage. Per ASC p. 141, units like all variants of the Salamander BA, that move 6" and can deliver damage at medium range do not need to have their final point values modified. There's no requirement that the unit can deliver a minimum of 1 damage, just that it delivers damage.  A recent update to battle armor listings in the MUL (you'll notice that there are BVs for 4, 5, and 6 man squads) caught these discrepancies and updated them. 
...

I have already made that edit to my copy of the ASC.  The way I had interpreted it, however, was that the "0.5" remains throughout all three range bands, and that the "1" for Medium Range was supposed to just be short-hand for "0.5 + 0.5" (since Medium range is added twice when summing for OFV).  Have I assumed wrong?

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 08 September 2015, 21:30:23
...
The Salamander (Laser) BA are equipped with a flamer, and ER micro laser, and a SRM 1 (OS) which do 0.2, 0.2, and 0.02 damage respectively for a total of 0.42. Times the troop factor for CAR6 (4.5) the raw damage value is 1.89 which rounds to 2.

You... are correct.  That's what I get for using old spreadsheets.  I will edit my previous post. (sorry for the headache)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 08 September 2015, 23:25:23
I have already made that edit to my copy of the ASC.  The way I had interpreted it, however, was that the "0.5" remains throughout all three range bands, and that the "1" for Medium Range was supposed to just be short-hand for "0.5 + 0.5" (since Medium range is added twice when summing for OFV).  Have I assumed wrong?
Actually, that part you assumed completely correctly. *I* however, made an error and have gone and recalculated the PV of all BA with a medium range damage value of 0*. I've recalcualted the PV of all affected units and will have them all entered ASAP.

*EDIT* Battle armor units with a medium range damage of 0* previously had an incorrect PV. All  affected units have been corrected. Cards should update in the next 24 hours.

However, if a unit has a damage value of 0* at a particular range it counts as being able to do damage at that range for the purposes of any final PV modification based on a units speed and maximum range. In other words, none of the Salamander BA are subject to any final PV modifications noted in Step 3 on ASC p. 141.

You... are correct.  That's what I get for using old spreadsheets.  I will edit my previous post. (sorry for the headache)
If that's from one of my old sheets, I sincerely apologize.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 09 September 2015, 09:37:46
The weapon listing for the [Laser] variant of the Salamander you gave is the correct listing (verified when I opened up my 3058 pdf).  The only excuse I have is, beside writing the wrong values down, that I included the Anti-Personnel bonus (since the box is unchecked, this error is mine).

I will respect that "might do damage" is a qualifier to negate the PV reduction as you outlined. [I'm not happy about it, but that's an opinion ;)  ]  Something more clear and definitive should be added to page 141 so someone else doesn't follow my mistake.

And speaking of my mistake, in undoing the *0.75 for all my calcs, I get the following:
.  Salamander BA [Standard]       15 PVOFV = 5 (2 Short, 0.5*2 Medium, 0 Long, 2 HT),  DFV = 9.75 (8 DIR, 1.25 MF, 0.5 DSAF)
.  Salamander BA [Anti-Infantry] 14 PVOFV = 4 (3 Short, 0.5*2 Medium, 0 Long),  DFV = 9.75 (8 DIR, 1.25 MF, 0.5 DSAF)
.  Salamander BA [Laser]             14 PVOFV = 4 (2 Short, 0.5*2 Medium, 0 Long, 1 HT), DFV = 9.75 (8 DIR, 1.25 MF, 0.5 DSAF)

I hope this helps.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Andy Mitchell on 17 September 2015, 11:07:16
If you add multiple identical units, e.g. in the alpha strike force builder they are often reduced back down to a single unit of each type. Some ways to cause this after adding duplicate units:

* Press F5 (refresh page) in the alpha strike force builder
* Navigate from the AS Builder to another page on the master unit list site, then back to the AS builder.

Which means you can't make use of the awesome full paramatised search capability after entering the AS builder if you have any duplicates in your force.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: wantec on 17 September 2015, 14:05:03
Since it was asked elsewhere, I'll ask it here, any idea when the new artwork for the unseens will be used on the MUL and AS cards? Is that something where we need to wait for the artwork to appear in a published product or is the preview artwork good enough?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 September 2015, 14:28:40
Since it was asked elsewhere, I'll ask it here, any idea when the new artwork for the unseens will be used on the MUL and AS cards? Is that something where we need to wait for the artwork to appear in a published product or is the preview artwork good enough?

When its published, or TPTB tell us to, whichever is sooner.  I don't recall an instance of the second happening yet though, so unless something surprising happens, when it's published.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 22 September 2015, 16:17:01
Could I put in a feature request?  I think it'd be fantastic to be able to choose the number of cards the AS Force Builder prints per sheet.  8 per sheet in two columns is easy enough to organize for IS units, but Clan, C*/WOB, Marian, and other odd balls get left out in the ease of access.  Being able to choose whether 3, 4, or 5 cards printed per column would be fantastic.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: wantec on 23 September 2015, 06:37:24
Could I put in a feature request?  I think it'd be fantastic to be able to choose the number of cards the AS Force Builder prints per sheet.  8 per sheet in two columns is easy enough to organize for IS units, but Clan, C*/WOB, Marian, and other odd balls get left out in the ease of access.  Being able to choose whether 3, 4, or 5 cards printed per column would be fantastic.
The same goes for Battle Armor formations when using the Force Builder. Unless I missed it, all the BA formations default to 4-man squads.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 25 September 2015, 01:08:48
I've done a search on posts in this forum, and can't see this reported previously, so here goes:

The Fa Shih TAG variant doesn't have the "LTAG" special ability. Each suit in the squad carries a Light TAG, so I'd expect it to be present.

Link to MUL here: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1018/fa-shih-battle-armor-tag

Recommended fix - add LTAG to this suit.

Cheers, and thanks for the hard work,

W. O0
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 25 September 2015, 07:14:10
Sorry about that. All squad sizes have been corrected. CAR4 should update in the next 24 hours.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 30 September 2015, 01:10:24
Thank you.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

And thanks!

Nckestrel just pointed out that I can search on AS role via the Basic Filters. So if I need a Capellan Brawler available during the Jihad, it's but a moment's work.

This is, indeed, wonderful.

So thanks to all the people who munge the data and shepherd the bytes.

Thanks!

W.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 05 October 2015, 19:14:55
The Vindicator VND-1X is missing special ability IF* from its Alpha Strike card. http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3425/vindicator-vnd-1x

The VND-1R does have it, as do other Vindicator variants that mount an LRM-5.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pat Payne on 06 October 2015, 11:18:01
When its published, or TPTB tell us to, whichever is sooner.  I don't recall an instance of the second happening yet though, so unless something surprising happens, when it's published.

OTOH, wasn't the lineart for the Marauder and Whammie "published" in the recent Alpha Strike Quick Start Rules? Or does it have to be in an actual print publication for it to count as published?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 08 October 2015, 12:13:35
Reporting a bug: AlphaStrike cards for Protomechs are not listing "Skill" and their values on the individual Unit Cards

These values still appear on the list generated when using the Force Builder tool and cost an appropriate amount of PV.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 13 October 2015, 22:55:24
Reporting a bug: Rommel (Howitzer) and the Howitzer prototype AlphaStrike cards are missing the ARTLTC-1 in their respective TUR specials.  (The card does list the special, they're just not listed in the turret)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4934/rommel-tank-howitzer
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4933/rommel-tank-howitzer-prototype


Xotl: fixed, thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pfarland on 19 October 2015, 14:58:23
I'm working on a (personal) project involving the MUL and noticed this.

Possible availability bug.  The Cephalus Omni has some that seem 'off'.
Cephalus <Base>; Cephalus Prime; Cephalus A - Availability in Jihad AND Early Republic

Cephalus B; Cephalus C; Cephalus D; Cephalus E; Cephalus U - Available ONLY in Jihad Era

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a side note, though I'm not very far through the MUL, I've noticed that nothing seems to have availabilities in the Age of War, Star League, Early Succession Wars, and Late Republic Eras.  (I read that most won't have a Dark Ages availability).  Is this something that's being worked on or just not available yet?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 19 October 2015, 15:09:53
The Cephalus does not have any availability data for Republic Era. It is To Be Announced.

The other areas are being worked upon but they take time. The volume of units and in the early eras, tracking down information takes a lot of time.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pfarland on 19 October 2015, 15:22:10
The Cephalus does not have any availability data for Republic Era. It is To Be Announced.

The other areas are being worked upon but they take time. The volume of units and in the early eras, tracking down information takes a lot of time.

Gotcha, and yeah I COMPLETELY understand about the time factor.  There is just about a metric ton of sourcebooks to go through, what's been done so far is already amazing!

On that note though, I noticed something else:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3979/commando-com-7x

This Commando variant doesn't seem to have any TRO or RS link or product info and it's BV and PV are listed as N/A.  It does have availability info though. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 19 October 2015, 16:18:21
That is not uncommon.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 19 October 2015, 17:53:51
This might be more of a question than an errata at this point. Didn't really know whereas to ask, but since I caught this while doing BV checks, I figured I'd ask here.

The Rifleman IIC 6 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2715/rifleman-iic-6) is listed as having a BV of 2,251, which matches the unit pre-loaded in SSW.

My calculation has the BV at 2,220, which matches the unit pre-loaded in MML.

The difference appears to be due to the fact that SSW version has an ER Small Laser mounted in the head. The unit as it appears in Record Sheets: 3085 Unabridged — Project Phoenix does not have this ER Small Laser, but it is half a ton underweight. I could not find errata anywhere which stated the RS in the official product is incorrect. So, do you know if the RS is correct, at which point the MUL is wrong?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 23 October 2015, 12:41:24
The BV for the Jenner JR10-X (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1686/jenner-jr10-x) is listed incorrectly as 1,269. I've actually no idea where this number comes from. The number in SSW matches the record sheet with 1,452. This number is also incorrect, however. My calculations (below) show the BV as 1,419, which also matches that in MML.

Code: [Select]
==================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Light Ferro-Fibrous):                 139 x 2.5 x 1                  347.500             
  Internal Structure (Composite w/ XL Engine): 58 x 1.5 x 0.5 x 0.5    (+)     21.750  =   369.250
  Gyro (Compact):                              35 x 0.5                (+)     17.500  =   386.750
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Angel ECM Suite                                                 (+)    100.000  =   486.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                   +4 (w/ Null-Signature)  (*)       1.60  =   778.800
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                             778.800

==================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Medium Laser                                                            46.000             
       Medium Laser                                                    (+)     46.000  =    92.000
       Medium Laser                                                    (+)     46.000  =   138.000
       Medium Laser                                                    (+)     46.000  =   184.000
       Medium Laser                                                    (+)     46.000  =   230.000
       Medium Laser                                                    (+)     46.000  =   276.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                 (+)     35.000  =   311.000
  Speed Factor:                                11 (Run) + 4 (Jump)     (*)      2.300  =   715.300
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                             715.300

==================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                    778.800             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                             (+)    715.300  = 1,494.100
  Cockpit (Torso-Mounted):                                             (*)       0.95  = 1,419.395
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                               1,419
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 23 October 2015, 13:23:10
The 1,269 value is correct. Per this (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=48436.msg1127538#msg1127538) TacOps errata, the heat from the Null-Signature System is now factored into BV calculations. Same goes for the Chameleon Light Polarization Shield and the Void-Signature System. All parts of your calculations were correct except that due to the above errata, three of the six medium lasers have their BVs halved due to the cumulative heat exceeding the 'Mechs calculated heat efficiency.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 October 2015, 13:47:41
OTOH, wasn't the lineart for the Marauder and Whammie "published" in the recent Alpha Strike Quick Start Rules? Or does it have to be in an actual print publication for it to count as published?

And Marauders and Warhammers are updated....
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ConstableBrew on 23 October 2015, 16:54:03
Two changes I'd love to see to the MUL:  First would be to expand what you can filter by with Alpha Strike.  At the very least, TMM would be nice, but the more options the better.  Second, I really wish the results were more useful for picking units--meaning if they showed the stats that are listed when you add them to your force, including TMM/MV and Specials.

Even if we couldn't get the narrower filters, just having results that included those stats would make it a lot less daunting to pick out units for a force.  :)

I'm running into similar issues now. I'd like to add that it would also be helpful to see each unit's full set of specials. Comparing units and weighing options comes with so much overhead when I have to open every single unit.

I also have been cross referencing every unit in sarna.net, since there I can find helpful writeups about each unit's history and usage in canon. If there were a simple url link to the sarna page, that would speed up my process significantly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 27 October 2015, 13:57:02
The 1,269 value is correct. Per this (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=48436.msg1127538#msg1127538) TacOps errata, the heat from the Null-Signature System is now factored into BV calculations. Same goes for the Chameleon Light Polarization Shield and the Void-Signature System. All parts of your calculations were correct except that due to the above errata, three of the six medium lasers have their BVs halved due to the cumulative heat exceeding the 'Mechs calculated heat efficiency.

Thanks. I should've known this since I was the cause (or at least asked the question that sparked the change) of the heat now being factored into the BV!! :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 27 October 2015, 14:02:37
The BV for the Goliath GOL-5W is listed incorrectly as 2,030. My calculations, along with those of MML and SSW, all come to 2,006. So I'm not sure where the calculation may be off (perhaps not factoring heat for Stealth??). Here is my breakdown:

Code: [Select]
================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Stealth):                                263 x 2.5 x 1             657.500             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ Fusion Engine): 130 x 1.5 x 1 x 1  (+)    195.000  =   852.500
  Gyro (Standard):                                80 x 0.5           (+)     40.000  =   892.500
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Guardian ECM Suite                                            (+)     61.000  =   953.500
  Defensive Movement Factor:                      +2 (w/ Stealth)    (*)       1.40  = 1,334.900
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                         1,334.900

================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Medium Laser                                                          46.000             
       Medium Laser                                                  (+)     46.000  =    92.000
       Medium Laser                                                  (+)     23.000  =   115.000
       Plasma Rifle                                                  (+)    210.000  =   325.000
       Plasma Rifle                                                  (+)    210.000  =   535.000
       Plasma Rifle (Ammo 10)                                        (+)     26.000  =   561.000
       Plasma Rifle (Ammo 10)                                        (+)     26.000  =   587.000
       Plasma Rifle (Ammo 10)                                        (+)     26.000  =   613.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                               (+)     80.000  =   693.000
  Speed Factor:                                   6 (Run) + 0 (Jump) (*)      1.120  =   776.160
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                           776.160

================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                1,334.900             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                           (+)    776.160  = 2,111.060
  Cockpit (Small):                                                   (*)       0.95  = 2,005.507
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                             2,006
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 29 October 2015, 10:59:11
The BV for the Vindicator VND-3LD (Dao) is listed incorrectly as 1,657. My calculations, along with those of MML, come to 1,639. SSW calculates it as 1,814, which also matches the record sheet. So I'm not sure where the calculation may be off. Here is my breakdown I have:

Code: [Select]
===================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous):                             153 x 2.5 x 1             382.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ Compact Engine): 75 x 1.5 x 1 x 1   (+)    112.500  =   495.000
  Gyro (Compact):                                    45 x 0.5           (+)     22.500  =   517.500
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                             
       Laser Anti-Missile System                                        (+)     45.000  =   562.500
  Explosive Ammunition:                              1 Critical Space   (-)     15.000  =   547.500
  Explosive Equipment:                               3 Critical Spaces  (-)      3.000  =   544.500
  Defensive Movement Factor:                         +3                 (*)       1.30  =   707.850
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                              707.850

===================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                             
       ER PPC                                                                  515.000             
       Mech Taser                                                       (+)     50.000  =   565.000
       Mech Taser (Ammo 5)                                              (+)      5.000  =   570.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                  (+)     54.000  =   624.000
  Speed Factor:                                      8 (Run) + 2 (Jump) (*)      1.630  = 1,017.120
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                            1,017.120

===================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                     707.850             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                              (+)  1,017.120  = 1,724.970
  Cockpit (Small):                                                      (*)       0.95  = 1,638.722
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                1,639
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 29 October 2015, 14:06:38
I noticed the Ti Ts'ang TSG-9H (Jason), as detailed in Dossiers: Jason Zaklan (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2747) is not listed in the MUL. Is this an omission or is this intentional for some reason?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 29 October 2015, 14:31:19
Hmm. I thought i had them all up there. This would be an omission. I'll see about adding them this week.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 29 October 2015, 20:53:19
The BV for the Goliath GOL-5W is listed incorrectly as 2,030. My calculations, along with those of MML and SSW, all come to 2,006.
You're spot on. Updated.

The BV for the Vindicator VND-3LD (Dao) is listed incorrectly as 1,657. My calculations, along with those of MML, come to 1,639.
Once again spot on. Updated.

Thank you much mordel.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 30 October 2015, 17:13:08
The BV for the Rifleman RFL-9T (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2707/rifleman-rfl-9t) is listed incorrectly as 1,416. My calculations, along with those of MML, come to 1,503. SSW also calculates it as 1,416. Part of the difference appears to be due to heat from Stealth armor, but the totals for weapon BV don't even come close to adding up right. So probably multiple things going on with SSW. Here is the breakdown I have:

Code: [Select]
===============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Stealth):                                152 x 2.5 x 1            380.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ Fusion Engine): 99 x 1.5 x 1 x 1  (+)    148.500  =   528.500
  Gyro (Standard):                                60 x 0.5          (+)     30.000  =   558.500
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Guardian ECM Suite                                           (+)     61.000  =   619.500
  Defensive Movement Factor:                      +2 (w/ Stealth)   (*)       1.40  =   867.300
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                          867.300

===============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       ER Medium Laser                                                      77.500             
       ER Medium Laser                                              (+)     38.750  =   116.250
       Light AC/5                                                   (+)     77.500  =   193.750
       Light AC/5                                                   (+)     77.500  =   271.250
       Light AC/5 (Ammo 20)                                         (+)      8.000  =   279.250
       Light AC/5 (Ammo 20)                                         (+)      8.000  =   287.250
       Light PPC                                                    (+)    110.000  =   397.250
       Light PPC                                                    (+)    110.000  =   507.250
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                              (+)     60.000  =   567.250
  Speed Factor:                                   6 (Run) + 0 (Jump)(*)      1.120  =   635.320
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                          635.320

===============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                 867.300             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                          (+)    635.320  = 1,502.620
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                            1,503
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 30 October 2015, 21:37:26
The BV for the Rifleman RFL-9T (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2707/rifleman-rfl-9t) is listed incorrectly as 1,416. My calculations, along with those of MML, come to 1,503.
You're spot on. Updated. Thank you.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 31 October 2015, 07:20:01
I'm not sure what the picture is, but it doesn't seem to be the Clan Interface Armor (which shares an image with the Machina Domini version of the Interface Armor).

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7387/clan-interface-armor-standard

Fix: Change the picture :) What is that anyway, the Space Station from HB:CapCon or something?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 31 October 2015, 13:50:18
It appears that out default image was changed to the space station. It doesn't really matter as I just added the images. The AS cards should regenerate tonight with the images.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 06 November 2015, 02:31:16
The FLE-4 is missing Wolf's Dragoons faction availability. It was introduced (in canon sources, anyway) in the WD sourcebook, is noted as being manufactured for them under contract, and the FLE-15 is available to the Dragoons.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Gordon on 06 November 2015, 09:34:09
Two minor requests:

Datatable sorting
It'd  be nice to be able to sort by columns on the Alpha Strike Force Builder search results because sometimes the results list can be a bit long and they're not usually in alphabetical order. I'd like to see at least the Name, Intro (Era) and PV columns being sortable.

Since it appears that the JQuery DataTables class is being used it should be a trivial (one or two lines of Javascript) feature addition :)

(http://jdgwf.com/bt/screenshots/mul-feature-request-sorting.png)

Alpha Strike Card Point Cost
I've noticed that the pricing on the Alpha Strike cards preview images doesn't change with the skill level, but the skill rating on the card does. Could this be fixed? It's probably a non-issue since the PDF creator does the calculations correctly, though and these images are for preview for the most part.

(http://jdgwf.com/bt/screenshots/mul-awesome-skill4.png)
(http://jdgwf.com/bt/screenshots/mul-awesome-skill3.png)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 06 November 2015, 13:24:47
The FLE-4 is missing Wolf's Dragoons faction availability. It was introduced (in canon sources, anyway) in the WD sourcebook, is noted as being manufactured for them under contract, and the FLE-15 is available to the Dragoons.

It looks like the new Fleas made for the dragoons were not the -4 but the -15 model. It looks like they should probably have access but only for the LosTech era. Two FLE-4 mechs doesn't justify access to it in the post 4SW eras.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jairb on 12 November 2015, 00:43:56
Some Alpha Strike Force Builder requests:
1.  As unit skill values are changed, it would be nice to have an average computed and the Point Value Skill Rating for the force displayed (i.e, Regular, Veteran, Elite, etc.).  This would allow folks creating forces based on the new Combat Manual books to know they're in compliance for the unit they're modeling.

2.  Allow reordering of units after they've been added to the list to facilitate grouping into Formations to be printed together.  For example, if a choice is changed and the 3rd unit added to the force is deleted and a replacement added, the new unit appears at the bottom of the list and an entire force of 12 must be rebuilt in order to get the Lances to print together.

3.  Once a Formation has skills assigned and units grouped into Lances (or Stars or Level IIs), it would be nice to be able to assign SCAs and SPAs and perhaps have cards generated with those reference descriptions.  Alternatively, SCA and SPA descriptions could appear on the Unit List summary page if formatting them on cards is undesirable for some reason.

4.  Save / Load ability to avoid regenerating Formations from scratch every time.  Perhaps a simple XML file with Unit IDs and Skill ratings would do.  Everything else could be requeried or recomputed from the database upon Load.

Thanks for all the truly EXCELLENT work on this to date.  It's an amazing resource.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 13 November 2015, 11:35:36
I think the BV for the Lich UABM-2R (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7385/lich-uabm-2r) is incorrect. It's difficult to tell because the BV calculations for this unit in MML and SSW are all over the place and don't match what is listed in the MUL nor what my calculations come out to. The MUL lists the BV as 1,719. My calculation yields 1,712. I know the calculation is tricky because of how the armor multiplier is applied per location. Here's my calculation:

Code: [Select]
==========================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                 272 x 2.5 x 1 (w/ HarJel)         711.750             
  Internal Structure (Endo-Composite w/ XL Engine): 146 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5        (+)    109.500  =   821.250
  Gyro (Standard):                                  90 x 0.5                   (+)     45.000  =   866.250
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                                   
       Angel ECM Suite                                                         (+)    100.000  =   966.250
  Explosive Equipment:                              3 Critical Spaces          (-)      3.000  =   963.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                        +2                         (*)       1.20  = 1,155.900
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                   1,155.900

==========================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                   
       ER Large Laser (C)                                                             198.400             
       ER Large Laser (C)                                                      (+)    198.400  =   396.800
       Light Gauss Rifle                                                       (+)     63.600  =   460.400
       Light Gauss Rifle                                                       (+)     63.600  =   524.000
       Light Gauss Rifle (Ammo 16)                                             (+)     16.000  =   540.000
       Light Gauss Rifle (Ammo 16)                                             (+)     16.000  =   556.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                         (+)     90.000  =   646.000
  Speed Factor:                                     5 (Run) + 0 (Jump)         (*)      1.000  =   646.000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                     646.000

==========================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,155.900             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                     (+)    646.000  = 1,801.900
  Cockpit (Drone):                                                             (*)       0.95  = 1,711.805
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                       1,712
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 13 November 2015, 12:33:06
The BV for the Raptor II RPT-2X (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2657/raptor-ii-rpt-2x) is incorrectly listed as 936. My calculations along with those of MML generate a BV of 896. I believe the discrepancy could be related to the recent errata concerning the Void-Signature System and its heat impact towards BV. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
===================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Light Ferro-Fibrous):                  118 x 2.5 x 1                  295.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 67 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5      (+)     50.250  =   345.250
  Gyro (Standard):                              40 x 0.5                (+)     20.000  =   365.250
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                             
       Guardian ECM Suite                                               (+)     61.000  =   426.250
  Explosive Ammunition:                         2 Critical Spaces       (-)     30.000  =   396.250
  Explosive Equipment:                          3 Critical Spaces       (-)      3.000  =   393.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4 (w/ Void-Signature)  (*)       1.40  =   550.550
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                              550.550

===================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                             
       Mech Taser                                                               20.000             
       Mech Taser (Ammo 5)                                              (+)      5.000  =    25.000
       Mech Taser (Ammo 5)                                              (+)      5.000  =    30.000
       Medium VSP Laser                                                 (+)     56.000  =    86.000
       Medium VSP Laser                                                 (+)     56.000  =   142.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                  (+)     40.000  =   182.000
  Speed Factor:                                 14 (Run) + 0 (Jump)     (*)      2.160  =   393.120
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                              393.120

===================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                     550.550             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                              (+)    393.120  =   943.670
  Cockpit (Small):                                                      (*)       0.95  =   896.487
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                  896
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 13 November 2015, 12:51:50
The BV for the Raptor II RPT-2X1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2658/raptor-ii-rpt-2x1) is incorrectly listed as 1471. My calculations along with those of MML generate a BV of 1274. I believe the discrepancy could be related to the recent errata concerning the Void-Signature System and its heat impact towards BV. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
===================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Light Ferro-Fibrous):                  118 x 2.5 x 1                  295.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 67 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5      (+)     50.250  =   345.250
  Gyro (Standard):                              40 x 0.5                (+)     20.000  =   365.250
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                             
       Bloodhound Active Probe                                          (+)     25.000  =   390.250
       Guardian ECM Suite                                               (+)     61.000  =   451.250
  Explosive Ammunition:                         1 Critical Space        (-)     15.000  =   436.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4 (w/ Void-Signature)  (*)       1.40  =   610.750
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                              610.750

===================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                             
       ER Large Laser                                                          163.000             
       ER Medium Laser                                                  (+)     31.000  =   194.000
       ER Small Laser (R)                                               (+)      4.250  =   198.250
       Streak SRM 6                                                     (+)     89.000  =   287.250
       Streak SRM 6 (Ammo 15)                                           (+)     11.000  =   298.250
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                  (+)     40.000  =   338.250
  Speed Factor:                                 14 (Run) + 0 (Jump)     (*)      2.160  =   730.620
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                              730.620

===================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                     610.750             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                              (+)    730.620  = 1,341.370
  Cockpit (Small):                                                      (*)       0.95  = 1,274.302
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                1,274
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 13 November 2015, 15:36:46
I think the BV for the Lich UABM-2R (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7385/lich-uabm-2r) is incorrect. It's difficult to tell because the BV calculations for this unit in MML and SSW are all over the place and don't match what is listed in the MUL nor what my calculations come out to. The MUL lists the BV as 1,719. My calculation yields 1,712. I know the calculation is tricky because of how the armor multiplier is applied per location. Here's my calculation:
The 1,719 is correct. You applied the 0.8 BV modifier to the Light Gauss Rifle's ammo which p.381 of TacOps notes not to do.

I suspect your Raptor II calculations are correct and I mis-clicked with I updated affect BVs with the Void Sig errata. I'll be able to verify a bit later tonight.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 13 November 2015, 18:14:52
The 1,719 is correct. You applied the 0.8 BV modifier to the Light Gauss Rifle's ammo which p.381 of TacOps notes not to do.

You are correct (of course). Sorry about that. I usually manage to figure out what's wrong with my calculation or the MUL based on what I see in MML and/or SSW. But because these were way off this time, I was stumped. The more you know...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 14 November 2015, 20:38:17
mordel - Both of your Raptor II calculations check out and both entries have been updated. Thanks for catching those.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 16 November 2015, 10:06:00
Another Raptor BV issue, this time with the Raptor II RPT-3X (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2659/raptor-ii-rpt-3x). This one does not appear to be related to  the Void-Signature System though as my calculations; as well as those from MML, come out to 1304. The BV listed in the MUL is 1301. SSW is way off, so not 100% sure where the discrepancy is. Here is my BV breakdown.

Code: [Select]
===================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Light Ferro-Fibrous):                  127 x 2.5 x 1                  317.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 67 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5      (+)     50.250  =   367.750
  Gyro (Standard):                              40 x 0.5                (+)     20.000  =   387.750
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                             
       Guardian ECM Suite                                               (+)     61.000  =   448.750
  Explosive Ammunition:                         2 Critical Spaces       (-)     30.000  =   418.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4 (w/ Void-Signature)  (*)       1.40  =   586.250
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                              586.250

===================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                             
       ER Medium Laser                                                          62.000             
       ER Medium Laser                                                  (+)     62.000  =   124.000
       Streak SRM 6                                                     (+)     89.000  =   213.000
       Streak SRM 6                                                     (+)     89.000  =   302.000
       Streak SRM 6 (Ammo 15)                                           (+)     11.000  =   313.000
       Streak SRM 6 (Ammo 15)                                           (+)     11.000  =   324.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                  (+)     40.000  =   364.000
  Speed Factor:                                 14 (Run) + 0 (Jump)     (*)      2.160  =   786.240
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                              786.240

===================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                     586.250             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                              (+)    786.240  = 1,372.490
  Cockpit (Small):                                                      (*)       0.95  = 1,303.866
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                1,304
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 16 November 2015, 12:45:54
Also correct and the entry has been updated. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jairb on 18 November 2015, 02:14:48
It would be really nice to have a filter feature that resulted in a list of Units UNIQUE to a Faction in a given period.  Put another way for example, the option to select Capellan Confederation and exclude all other Faction affiliation.

That would really help new players quickly give a distinctive faction flavor to their builds.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 20 November 2015, 14:16:04
The D-M3D-3 Diomede (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/901/diomede-d-m3d-3-constructionmech)'s Alpha Strike card lists it as having basic fire control, while TRO 3085 page 111 has a note specifically saying the Diomede has advanced fire control. The Diomede-4 is also listed with BFC, though the TRO has no note clarifying this issue for that variant, and their record sheets don't say anything either way. Might have to ask whoever designed the thing.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 20 November 2015, 16:59:56
The BV for the Stealth STH-5X (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5130/stealth-sth-5x) is incorrectly listed as 2222. My calculations along with those of MML come to 2155. I believe the issue may be due to the recent errata regarding the Chameleon LPS and its impact on heat efficiency ratings. Below if my calculation:

Code: [Select]
=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous):                       143 x 2.5 x 1                 357.500             
  Internal Structure (Composite w/ XL Engine): 75 x 1.5 x 0.5 x 0.5   (+)     28.125  =   385.625
  Gyro (Standard):                             45 x 0.5               (+)     22.500  =   408.125
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Active Probe (C)                                               (+)     12.000  =   420.125
       ECM Suite (C)                                                  (+)     61.000  =   481.125
  Explosive Ammunition:                        1 Critical Space       (-)     15.000  =   466.125
  Defensive Movement Factor:                   +4 (w/ Chameleon LPS)  (*)       1.60  =   745.800
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                            745.800

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       ER Flamer                                                               8.000             
       ER Flamer                                                      (+)      8.000  =    16.000
       ER Medium Laser (C)                                            (+)    108.000  =   124.000
       ER Medium Laser (C)                                            (+)    108.000  =   232.000
       ER Medium Laser (C)                                            (+)    108.000  =   340.000
       Streak SRM 6 (C)                                               (+)    118.000  =   458.000
       Streak SRM 6 (Ammo 15) (C)                                     (+)     15.000  =   473.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)     45.000  =   518.000
  Speed Factor:                                14 (Run) + 4 (Jump)    (*)      2.720  = 1,408.960
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,408.960

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                   745.800             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)  1,408.960  = 2,154.760
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                              2,155
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 20 November 2015, 18:50:03
Correct, entry updated. Thank you again.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Descronan on 25 November 2015, 12:44:08
I noticed that all units with a single AC 5 do not have the AC ability listed (AC0/1/1). This appears to be an error in rounding for the AC ability as the Companion states "As a general rule, the attack values for damage-delivering special unit abilities such as AC#/#/#, LRM#/#/#, and SRM#/# are computed by adding together the specific damage values for all of the appropriate weapons involved, then rounding the result normally."

I have found no relevant errata to explain this.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3514/warrior-attack-helicopter-h-7a

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6664/scapha-hovertank-f

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3395/vedette-medium-tank-standard

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2898/shadow-hawk-shd-1r

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2899/shadow-hawk-shd-2d
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 25 November 2015, 13:11:07
A unit must have at least 10 damage in AC (or SRM or LRM) to qualify.  (Or 1 if using the Alpha Strike Companion tables that are already divided by 10).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Descronan on 25 November 2015, 17:03:51
Then is this an errata? Because this is not what the Companion states. According to the Companion P116, the damage should be rounded normally.

Special Unit Ability Damage Values
As a general rule, the attack values for damage-delivering
special unit abilities such as AC#/#/#, LRM#/#/#, and SRM#/# are
computed by adding together the specific damage values for all
of the appropriate weapons involved, then rounding the result
normally.
This is similar to how a unit’s normal attack values
are computed, except that these values include only those for
the weapons specified by the ability, and are not subject to
heat modification. The special unit ability that applies for any
given weapon system is noted in its entry on the appropriate
conversion tables.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 25 November 2015, 17:40:52
The conversion rules for AC on pg 120 specifically states that it must deliver at least 1 point of damage at medium range after heat reduction to qualify.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 25 November 2015, 17:48:12
ASC p. 120 Autocannons (AC#/#/#)
Quote
A unit receives this special if it carries any number of light or standard autocannons that can deliver 1 or more points
of damage at Medium range after heat-modification and before final damage value rounding.

ASC p.126 Long-Range Missiles (LRM#/#/#)
Quote
A unit receives this special if it carries any number of standard or enhanced LRM and/or MML launchers that, when
combined, are capable of delivering 1 or more points of damage at Medium range after heat-modification and before final damage value rounding.

ASC p. 131 Short-Range Missiles (SRM#/#)
Quote
A unit receives this special if it carries any number of standard SRM and/or MML launchers that, when combined, are capable of delivering 1 or more points of damage at Medium range after heat-modification and before final damage value rounding.

So if there isn't at least one point of damage for a particular special ability at medium range prior to final rounding, the unit doesn't qualify for that particular type of special ability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Lboydmsw on 25 November 2015, 21:55:51
Both variants of the scarabus have TSM which only works when a mech hits a heat scale of 1 or more but neither scarabus has an OV value.  Neither is able to activate their TSM
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 25 November 2015, 22:17:25
Both variants of the scarabus have TSM which only works when a mech hits a heat scale of 1 or more but neither scarabus has an OV value.  Neither is able to activate their TSM

This is covered in the current AS errata, which allows them to activate it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hammer on 26 November 2015, 18:34:55
Not sure if this is the place to post this but:

The Chameleon TRC-4B (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/546/chameleon-trc-4b) in the MUL shows the unit is available in the RS 3058 Uu-I but when I check the actually book that unit doesn't exist.

But there is a Chameleon CLN-4V which is missing from the MUL.  I'm wondering if these are different units or the same.  If they are the same which would be the correct designation.

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 26 November 2015, 18:46:42
Chameleon designation was errata'd.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=5933.msg173715#msg173715
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hammer on 26 November 2015, 22:16:48
Chameleon designation was errata'd.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=5933.msg173715#msg173715
Thanks. Missed that one.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Louie N on 26 November 2015, 23:48:49
Hello

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3110/stuka-stu-k5

On the Aerospace fighter cards the Engine Hit critical is listed as "1/4" move.  The Critical hit as described in Alpha strike page 58 says...

Engine Hit (Aerospace Fighters, Conventional Fighters, and Fixed-Wing Support Vehicles):
The unit’s power system is damaged. For fighters and fixed-wing support vehicles, the first engine hit reduces the unit to half its Thrust rating (round down, to a minimum of 1 Thrust lost).

Is the 1/4 move is error and should be corrected to one half. 

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 27 November 2015, 17:48:15
Although I know it's still a "draft" era, the availabilities for the Skandi VTOL seem funky for the Early Republic time period.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 November 2015, 18:40:04
Although I know it's still a "draft" era, the availabilities for the Skandi VTOL seem funky for the Early Republic time period.

You are going to have to be more specific.
Note the intro date of 3099, and the Early Republic era ends in 3100.  It didn't spread to everyone that first year.
Or is there a specific faction that should or should not be listed?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 27 November 2015, 18:52:10
You are going to have to be more specific.
Note the intro date of 3099, and the Early Republic era ends in 3100.  It didn't spread to everyone that first year.
Or is there a specific faction that should or should not be listed?

Sorry, right. It was first produced by the Jade Falcons on Pandora (they're missing from the faction list), but I'd also be surprised if the Republic of the Sphere were to buy it from them. Then the Lyrans took control of the planet at some point, but I'm not sure when that happened.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 November 2015, 20:05:58
Yeah. It looks like its production got moved during development of 3145...checking to make sure I'm not missing anything else...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 29 November 2015, 05:49:09
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5610/battle-taxi-nl-43

This is listed as being 200 tons, but this is in fact the 100 ton Fighter from XTRO Phantoms. The rest of the data is correct (it shows up under Fighters in the MUL). However, the image is wrong as it should use the image of the NL-42 according to XTRO Phantoms.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 29 November 2015, 09:18:50
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5610/battle-taxi-nl-43

This is listed as being 200 tons, but this is in fact the 100 ton Fighter from XTRO Phantoms. The rest of the data is correct (it shows up under Fighters in the MUL). However, the image is wrong as it should use the image of the NL-42 according to XTRO Phantoms.

Tonnage fixed. Unless I'm missing some errata somewhere, that is the image out of the XTRO and directly from the record sheet.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 29 November 2015, 10:45:15
Entry 2978, "Sniper House Dai Dai Chi Snipers."

Problem/solution: As above, this is listed (and on its card) as "House Dai Dai Chi." Per TR3085 (and other sources), should be "Dai Da Chi."
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 29 November 2015, 12:21:12
Entry 2978, "Sniper House Dai Dai Chi Snipers."

Problem/solution: As above, this is listed (and on its card) as "House Dai Dai Chi." Per TR3085 (and other sources), should be "Dai Da Chi."

fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 30 November 2015, 08:54:12
Sorry, right. It was first produced by the Jade Falcons on Pandora (they're missing from the faction list), but I'd also be surprised if the Republic of the Sphere were to buy it from them. Then the Lyrans took control of the planet at some point, but I'm not sure when that happened.

Yep, I missed the change.  Skadi is Clan Jade Falcon only for the Early Republic era.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 04 December 2015, 09:07:33
according to the MUL the Grenadier II D configuration is available only to the RoTS and not to the FS.
However we have the following description from XTRO:Republic volume 3 page 16 "Having self-supporting artillery deployed by battle armor also added to the Capellans’ confusion
on Marlette."

According to TRO 3150 the defending unit that fought on this FS world was the 5th Crucis Lancers, a FS unit.
It seems to me this configuration should also be available to the FS.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 06 December 2015, 21:23:40
The Battle Value for the Wendigo C (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6406/wendigo-c) appears to be incorrectly listed as 2,548. My calculations along with those from MML come out to 2,623. The calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Laser Reflective):                     182 x 2.5 x 1.5             682.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 83 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)     93.375  =   775.875
  Gyro (Standard):                              50 x 0.5             (+)     25.000  =   800.875
  Explosive Equipment:                          4 Critical Spaces    (-)      4.000  =   796.875
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4                   (*)       1.40  = 1,115.625
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                         1,115.625

================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       ER Small Laser                                                        15.500             
       Improved Heavy Large Laser                                    (+)    296.000  =   311.500
       Improved Heavy Medium Laser                                   (+)     93.000  =   404.500
       Improved Heavy Medium Laser                                   (+)     93.000  =   497.500
       Streak LRM 15                                                 (+)    259.000  =   756.500
       Streak LRM 15 (Ammo 8)                                        (+)     32.000  =   788.500
       Streak LRM 15 (Ammo 8)                                        (+)     32.000  =   820.500
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                               (+)     50.000  =   870.500
  Speed Factor:                                 12 (Run) + 0 (Jump)  (*)      1.890  = 1,645.245
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                         1,645.245

================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                1,115.625             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                           (+)  1,645.245  = 2,760.870
  Cockpit (Torso-Mounted):                                           (*)       0.95  = 2,622.827
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                             2,623
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 07 December 2015, 20:30:00
The Battle Value for the Wendigo C (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6406/wendigo-c) appears to be incorrectly listed as 2,548. My calculations along with those from MML come out to 2,623. The calculations are as follows:
Looks correct to me. Entry has been corrected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 09 December 2015, 19:23:38
Hi!

The MUL stat cards for Nephilim battle armour - http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=nephilim - all show movement 4".

Other non-jumping BA, such as the Shedu, Se'irim, or (for the heretics) Grenadier, show their movement as being foot mode - eg. 6"f, 6"f, and 4"f respectively.

Suggested correction - update the Nephilim entries to show movement 4"f.

Cheers,

W.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 10 December 2015, 08:14:34
Nice catch, all Nephilim entries corrected. Thank you much.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 11 December 2015, 15:31:01
The Battle Value for the Quickdraw QKD-8X (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2617/quickdraw-qkd-8x) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,580. My calculations along with those from MML come out to 1,612. Not quite sure where the discrepancy may lie. The calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Stealth):                                  232 x 2.5 x 1            580.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ Fusion Engine): 99 x 1.5 x 1 x 1  (+)    148.500  =   728.500
  Gyro (Compact):                                   60 x 0.5          (+)     30.000  =   758.500
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Guardian ECM Suite                                             (+)     61.000  =   819.500
  Defensive Movement Factor:                        +3 (w/ Stealth)   (*)       1.50  = 1,229.250
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,229.250

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Medium Laser (R)                                                       23.000             
       Medium Laser (R)                                               (+)     23.000  =    46.000
       PPC (T)                                                        (+)    176.000  =   222.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)     90.000  =   312.000
  Speed Factor:                                     9 (Run) + 0 (Jump)(*)      1.500  =   468.000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                            468.000

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                 1,229.250             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)    468.000  = 1,697.250
  Cockpit (Torso-Mounted):                                            (*)       0.95  = 1,612.388
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                              1,612
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 11 December 2015, 15:59:54
The Battle Value for the Violator VT-U1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6503/violator-vt-u1) appears to be incorrectly listed as 926. My calculations along with those from MML come out to 928. Not quite sure where the discrepancy may lie. The calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                 144 x 2.5 x 1            360.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ Fusion Engine): 75 x 1.5 x 1 x 1  (+)    112.500  =   472.500
  Gyro (Standard):                                  45 x 0.5          (+)     22.500  =   495.000
  Armored Components:                                                                           
       Cockpit                                                        (+)      5.000  =   500.000
  Defensive Movement Factor:                        +3                (*)       1.30  =   650.000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                            650.000

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Claws                                                                   8.925             
       Mining Drill                                                   (+)      6.000  =    14.925
       MRM 10 (Ammo 24)                                               (+)      7.000  =    21.925
       MRM 10 (Ammo 24)                                               (+)      7.000  =    28.925
       MRM 10                                                         (+)     64.400  =    93.325
       MRM 10                                                         (+)     64.400  =   157.725
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)     45.000  =   202.725
  Speed Factor:                                     8 (Run) + 0 (Jump)(*)      1.370  =   277.733
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                            277.733

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                   650.000             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)    277.733  =   927.733
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                928
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 11 December 2015, 23:39:26
The Battle Value for the Tenshi TN-10-OA (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6422/tenshi-tn-10-oa) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,830. My calculations come out to 1,829 (a small difference). MML appears way off because they subtract 15 for some reason. Probably just some rounding error, my calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
===============================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                           293 x 2.5 x 1                732.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo-Composite w/ Light Fusion Engine): 145 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    163.125  =   895.625
  Gyro (Compact):                                             95 x 0.5              (+)     47.500  =   943.125
  Explosive Equipment:                                        2 Critical Spaces     (-)      2.000  =   941.125
  Defensive Movement Factor:                                  +2                    (*)       1.20  = 1,129.350
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                        1,129.350

===============================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                         
       Large VSP Laser                                                                     123.000             
       Large VSP Laser                                                              (+)    123.000  =   246.000
       Large VSP Laser                                                              (+)    123.000  =   369.000
       MRM 30 (Ammo 8)                                                              (+)     21.000  =   390.000
       MRM 30 (Ammo 8)                                                              (+)     21.000  =   411.000
       MRM 30                                                                       (+)    193.200  =   604.200
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                              (+)     95.000  =   699.200
  Speed Factor:                                               5 (Run) + 0 (Jump)    (*)      1.000  =   699.200
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                          699.200

===============================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                               1,129.350             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                          (+)    699.200  = 1,828.550
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                            1,829
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 14 December 2015, 18:54:46
The Battle Value for the Beowulf BEO-14 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/328/beowulf-beo-14) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,265. My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,287. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
=============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous):                      152 x 2.5 x 1              380.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ XL Engine): 75 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5  (+)     56.250  =   436.250
  Gyro (Standard):                            45 x 0.5            (+)     22.500  =   458.750
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                       
       Beagle Active Probe                                        (+)     10.000  =   468.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                  +4                  (*)       1.40  =   656.250
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                        656.250

=============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                       
       ER Medium Laser                                                    62.000             
       ER Small Laser                                             (+)     17.000  =    79.000
       ER Small Laser                                             (+)      8.500  =    87.500
       Medium VSP Laser                                           (+)     56.000  =   143.500
       Medium VSP Laser                                           (+)     56.000  =   199.500
       Small Laser                                                (+)      4.500  =   204.000
       Sword                                                      (+)     20.700  =   224.700
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                            (+)     67.500  =   292.200
  Speed Factor:                               11 (Run) + 3 (Jump) (*)      2.160  =   631.152
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                        631.152

=============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                               656.250             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                        (+)    631.152  = 1,287.402
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                          1,287
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 16 December 2015, 11:59:30
The Battle Value for the Ti Ts'ang TSG-9C (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3252/ti-tsang-tsg-9c) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,950. My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,989. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
===============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                             200 x 2.5 x 1              500.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 99 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5  (+)     74.250  =   574.250
  Gyro (Standard):                              60 x 0.5            (+)     30.000  =   604.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4                  (*)       1.40  =   845.950
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                          845.950

===============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       ER Medium Laser                                                      62.000             
       ER Medium Laser                                              (+)     62.000  =   124.000
       ER Small Laser                                               (+)      8.500  =   132.500
       ER Small Laser                                               (+)      8.500  =   141.000
       Hatchet                                                      (+)     36.000  =   177.000
       Plasma Rifle                                                 (+)    210.000  =   387.000
       Plasma Rifle (Ammo 10)                                       (+)     26.000  =   413.000
       Plasma Rifle (Ammo 10)                                       (+)     26.000  =   439.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                              (+)     90.000  =   529.000
  Speed Factor:                                 11 (Run) + 3 (Jump) (*)      2.160  = 1,142.640
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                        1,142.640

===============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                 845.950             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                          (+)  1,142.640  = 1,988.590
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                            1,989
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 18 December 2015, 17:01:26
I'm not sure if I should ask here or make an update elsewhere.

The Vulture Mk III (Prime, A-D variants) are all listed as Advanced Rules on the MUL (linky thingy (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6271/vulture-mk-iii-prime))

Per TRO3145: Clans p.40-41, and RS3145_unabridged p.450-454... I don't see any advanced equipment among any of the appropriate variants.

Should these all be "Standard" Rules level?  Or is there another reason they've been labeled "Advanced" ?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Gamergeek on 19 December 2015, 09:05:27
The MUL used to list unit cost (where available) in the table format (I think), is there a way to display this field while searching the MUL?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 19 December 2015, 12:18:32
There currently isn't a way to add the cost to the table without doing it for everybody. I'm not sure we have room for cost without replacing another column (or at least for screen resolutions of 1920 or less.) The mobile version is even more pressed for space.
Side note on the subject: Less than half of the units in the MUL actually have a CBill cost so I'm not sure if it will really be useful to add it only to see a lot of 0s.

The Vulture Mk III (Prime, A-D variants) are all listed as Advanced Rules on the MUL (linky thingy (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6271/vulture-mk-iii-prime))
I suspect it was in error when it was entered. It is fixed.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 21 December 2015, 10:19:39
The Battle Value for the Thunder Stallion 3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3226/thunder-stallion-3) appears to be incorrectly listed as 2,667 (which matches MML). My calculations come out to 2,631. I believe the discrepancy is due to the fact that the ammo in the right front leg is not being counted as explosive whereas it should as per the latest BV rules. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                               279 x 2.5 x 1             697.500             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ Fusion Engine): 138 x 1.5 x 1 x 1  (+)    207.000  =   904.500
  Gyro (Standard):                                85 x 0.5           (+)     42.500  =   947.000
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                         
       ECM Suite                                                     (+)     61.000  = 1,008.000
  Explosive Ammunition:                           2 Critical Spaces  (-)     30.000  =   978.000
  Defensive Movement Factor:                      +2                 (*)       1.20  = 1,173.600
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                         1,173.600

================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       ER Medium Laser                                                      108.000             
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 40                                        (+)    535.000  =   643.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 40 (Ammo 3)                               (+)     67.000  =   710.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 40 (Ammo 3)                               (+)     67.000  =   777.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 40 (Ammo 3)                               (+)     67.000  =   844.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 40 (Ammo 3)                               (+)     67.000  =   911.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 40 (Ammo 3)                               (+)     67.000  =   978.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 40 (Ammo 3)                               (+)     67.000  = 1,045.000
       LB 20-X AC                                                    (+)    237.000  = 1,282.000
       LB 20-X AC (Ammo 5)                                           (+)     30.000  = 1,312.000
       LB 20-X AC (Ammo 5)                                           (+)     30.000  = 1,342.000
       LB 20-X AC (Ammo 5)                                           (+)     30.000  = 1,372.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                               (+)     85.000  = 1,457.000
  Speed Factor:                                   5 (Run) + 0 (Jump) (*)      1.000  = 1,457.000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                         1,457.000

================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                1,173.600             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                           (+)  1,457.000  = 2,630.600
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                             2,631
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 21 December 2015, 12:43:49
All Hollander III variants (BZK-D1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6333/hollander-iii-bzk-d1), BZK-D2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6334/hollander-iii-bzk-d2), and BZK-D3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6335/hollander-iii-bzk-d3)) are listed as being Standard. However, due to the fact each has Laser Reflective armor, they should be listed as Advanced.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 21 December 2015, 13:07:45
The Battle Value for the Scarecrow UCU-F4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6336/scarecrow-ucu-f4) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,410. My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,475. Discrepancies could be due to BV rule changes for Chameleon LPS? My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
======================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                 128 x 2.5 x 1                 320.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo-Composite w/ XL Engine): 67 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5     (+)     50.250  =   370.250
  Gyro (Compact):                                   40 x 0.5               (+)     20.000  =   390.250
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                               
       Anti-Battle Armor Pod                                               (+)      2.000  =   392.250
       Anti-Battle Armor Pod                                               (+)      2.000  =   394.250
       Bloodhound Active Probe                                             (+)     25.000  =   419.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                        +3 (w/ Chameleon LPS)  (*)       1.50  =   628.875
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                 628.875

======================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                               
       ER Flamer                                                                    8.000             
       ER Flamer                                                           (+)      8.000  =    16.000
       ER Medium Laser (C)                                                 (+)    108.000  =   124.000
       ER Medium Laser (C)                                                 (+)    108.000  =   232.000
       ER Medium Laser (C)                                                 (+)    108.000  =   340.000
       Light Machine Gun (Ammo 100) (C)                                    (+)      0.500  =   340.500
       Light Machine Gun (Array) (C)                                       (+)      8.350  =   348.850
       Light Machine Gun (Array) (C)                                       (+)      8.350  =   357.200
       Light Machine Gun (Array) (C)                                       (+)      8.350  =   365.550
       Light Machine Gun (Array) (C)                                       (+)      8.350  =   373.900
       Light Machine Gun (Array) (C)                                       (+)      8.350  =   382.250
       Light Machine Gun (Array) (C)                                       (+)      8.350  =   390.600
       Light Machine Gun (Array) (C)                                       (+)      8.350  =   398.950
       Light Machine Gun (Array) (C)                                       (+)      8.350  =   407.300
       Medium Pulse Laser                                                  (+)     24.000  =   431.300
       Medium Pulse Laser                                                  (+)     48.000  =   479.300
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                     (+)     40.000  =   519.300
  Speed Factor:                                     8 (Run) + 2 (Jump)     (*)      1.630  =   846.459
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                 846.459

======================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                        628.875             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                 (+)    846.459  = 1,475.334
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                   1,475
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 21 December 2015, 13:14:20
All Hollander III variants (BZK-D1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6333/hollander-iii-bzk-d1), BZK-D2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6334/hollander-iii-bzk-d2), and BZK-D3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6335/hollander-iii-bzk-d3)) are listed as being Standard. However, due to the fact each has Laser Reflective armor, they should be listed as Advanced.

Fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 21 December 2015, 20:39:38
Thanks mordel. All have been the units you noted have been double checked and updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 22 December 2015, 11:23:34
The Battle Value for the Templar III TLR2-OB (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6355/templar-iii-tlr2-ob) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,918. My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,919. It's only a 1 point discrepancy, so it may have just been a rounding thing My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
===========================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                       263 x 2.5 x 1                657.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ Light Fusion Engine): 130 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    146.250  =   803.750
  Gyro (Heavy-Duty):                                      85 x 0.5              (+)     85.000  =   888.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                              +3                    (*)       1.30  = 1,155.375
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                    1,155.375

===========================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                     
       Chain Whip                                                                        5.175             
       ER PPC                                                                   (+)    229.000  =   234.175
       ER Small Laser                                                           (+)      8.500  =   242.675
       Hatchet                                                                  (+)     25.500  =   268.175
       Small X-Pulse Laser                                                      (+)     21.000  =   289.175
       Small X-Pulse Laser                                                      (+)     21.000  =   310.175
       Small X-Pulse Laser                                                      (+)     21.000  =   331.175
       Small X-Pulse Laser                                                      (+)     10.500  =   341.675
       Small X-Pulse Laser                                                      (+)     21.000  =   362.675
       Small X-Pulse Laser                                                      (+)     21.000  =   383.675
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                          (+)     85.000  =   468.675
  Speed Factor:                                           8 (Run) + 2 (Jump)    (*)      1.630  =   763.940
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                      763.940

===========================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                           1,155.375             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                      (+)    763.940  = 1,919.315
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                        1,919
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 24 December 2015, 11:43:33
The Battle Value for the Jenner JR7-K (Grace) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1696/jenner-jr7-k-grace) appears to be incorrectly listed as 737. My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 702. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
=============================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous (Prototype)):                            80 x 2.5 x 1             200.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel (Prototype) w/ Fusion Engine): 58 x 1.5 x 1 x 1  (+)     87.000  =   287.000
  Gyro (Standard):                                              35 x 0.5          (+)     17.500  =   304.500
  Explosive Ammunition:                                         3 Critical Spaces (-)     45.000  =   259.500
  Defensive Movement Factor:                                    +4                (*)       1.40  =   363.300
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                        363.300

=============================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                       
       Medium Laser                                                                       46.000             
       Medium Laser                                                               (+)     46.000  =    92.000
       Narc Missile Beacon                                                        (+)     30.000  =   122.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                            (+)     35.000  =   157.000
  Speed Factor:                                                 11 (Run) + 3 (Jump)(*)      2.160  =   339.120
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                        339.120

=============================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                               363.300             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                        (+)    339.120  =   702.420
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                            702
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 24 December 2015, 23:24:31
Unit: Behemoth II Heavy Tank (Standard)
Link: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6447/behemoth-ii-heavy-tank-standard

Sources:
  TRO3145 Capellan Confederation p.24-25 (unit info)
  Alpha Strike Companion p.107 (weapon table), 137 (role), 139 (conversion)

Issue: the Alpha-Strike card for the Behemoth II  appears to be missing an "IF" value per the conversion information in the ASC.
. [8x Thunderbolt_5 = 2.34/4.0/4.0 damage; IF# = Long Range damage, or 4.0]

Suggested changes:
. Add "IF4" to the listed specials
. Adjust "TUR" special to include "IF4"
. Adjust "PV" to 50
. . PV calculations: 26 OFV + 24.25 DFV + 0 GFB
. Adjust Role to "Missile Boat" (over 50% of the damage at Long Range is dealt by the missile systems)


fixed downthread.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 31 December 2015, 13:59:25
The Battle Value for the Gurkha GUR-8G (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5664/gurkha-gur-8g) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,229 (which matches SSW). My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,241. The discrepancy appears to be a result of SSW not factoring in TSM for the BV of the retractable blade. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
===============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                             119 x 2.5 x 1              297.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 58 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5  (+)     43.500  =   341.000
  Gyro (Standard):                              35 x 0.5            (+)     17.500  =   358.500
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4                  (*)       1.40  =   501.900
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                          501.900

===============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       ER Medium Laser                                                      62.000             
       ER Medium Laser                                              (+)     62.000  =   124.000
       ER Medium Laser                                              (+)     62.000  =   186.000
       ER Small Laser                                               (+)      8.500  =   194.500
       Retractable Blade                                            (+)     13.800  =   208.300
       Snub-Nose PPC                                                (+)    165.000  =   373.300
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                              (+)     52.500  =   425.800
  Speed Factor:                                 12 (Run) + 0 (Jump) (*)      1.890  =   804.762
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                          804.762

===============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                 501.900             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                          (+)    804.762  = 1,306.662
  Cockpit (Small):                                                  (*)       0.95  = 1,241.329
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                            1,241
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 31 December 2015, 16:25:42
The Battle Value for the Chimera CMA-2K (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5667/chimera-cma-2k) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,507 (which matches SSW). My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,528. The discrepancy appears to be a result of SSW not factoring in TSM for the BV of the sword. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
===============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                             120 x 2.5 x 1              300.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 67 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5  (+)     50.250  =   350.250
  Gyro (XL):                                    40 x 0.5            (+)     20.000  =   370.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4                  (*)       1.40  =   518.350
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                          518.350

===============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Medium Laser                                                         46.000             
       Medium Laser                                                 (+)     46.000  =    92.000
       Medium Laser                                                 (+)     46.000  =   138.000
       Medium Laser                                                 (+)     23.000  =   161.000
       Small Laser                                                  (+)      4.500  =   165.500
       Small Pulse Laser                                            (+)      6.000  =   171.500
       Snub-Nose PPC                                                (+)    165.000  =   336.500
       Sword                                                        (+)     17.250  =   353.750
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                              (+)     60.000  =   413.750
  Speed Factor:                                 12 (Run) + 4 (Jump) (*)      2.440  = 1,009.550
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                        1,009.550

===============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                 518.350             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                          (+)  1,009.550  = 1,527.900
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                            1,528
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 03 January 2016, 04:31:25
I noticed something a few minutes ago on the MUL. I went to the Unit page, and searched for "lament" using the Unit Search on the left side of the screen.

Surprisingly, nothing turned up, with the following URL generated.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=lament&HasBV=true&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=112&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=

However, when I searched using the search bar in the upper right, 5 Laments showed up with no problem and the following URL was generated

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Lament

I *think* what's going on, is that its the Alpha Strike Filter that's messing things up. Even after telling the MUL to Clear the filters, the default filter for AS seems to be Ambusher. That's the following part of the first URL posted.

&Role=112

I'm pretty sure this shouldn't be the default behavior of the Unit search as it seems rather..counterproductive.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 03 January 2016, 07:37:16
The data is currently being migrated. We'll have to see if it is still behaving that way when we are done.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Baron RedSkull on 03 January 2016, 13:03:19
Any idea when we might see faction availability for the various units from Record Sheets 3145: New Tech New Upgrades?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 03 January 2016, 14:46:08
I don't know if your migration is done... if so I'd suggest you look at the advanced search options.

One cannot leave the role unspecified, and "None" doesn't mean the same thing as unspecified.

Example: one cannot search for any unit without respect to role for the presence of a given special.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Deadborder on 03 January 2016, 22:55:57
The Alpha Strike stats for the Mad Cat Mk IV (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=mad+cat+mk+iv) family are off. As per Alpha Strike Companion pg 98, the Structure Value for a 75 ton Clan 'Mech with an XXL engine should be three; the MUL Alpha Strike Card gives it as two
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Felger on 05 January 2016, 21:54:12
Is there a way to add a custom-generated alpha strike card to the force builder?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 07 January 2016, 20:33:15
The Battle Value for the No-Dachi NDA-3S (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5692/no-dachi-nda-3s) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,679. My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,706. I'm guessing it's related to the damage adjustment of the Mace due to TSM. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                             216 x 2.5 x 1               540.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 107 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5  (+)     80.250  =   620.250
  Gyro (Standard):                              70 x 0.5             (+)     35.000  =   655.250
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Guardian ECM Suite                                            (+)     61.000  =   716.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +3                   (*)       1.30  =   931.125
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                           931.125

================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       ER Medium Laser                                                       62.000             
       ER Medium Laser                                               (+)     62.000  =   124.000
       Mace                                                          (+)     36.000  =   160.000
       Medium Pulse Laser                                            (+)     48.000  =   208.000
       Medium Pulse Laser                                            (+)     24.000  =   232.000
       Medium Pulse Laser                                            (+)     48.000  =   280.000
       Medium VSP Laser                                              (+)     56.000  =   336.000
       Medium VSP Laser                                              (+)     56.000  =   392.000
       Small Laser                                                   (+)      4.500  =   396.500
       Small Laser                                                   (+)      4.500  =   401.000
       Small Laser                                                   (+)      4.500  =   405.500
       Small Pulse Laser                                             (+)      6.000  =   411.500
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                               (+)    105.000  =   516.500
  Speed Factor:                                 9 (Run) + 0 (Jump)   (*)      1.500  =   774.750
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                           774.750

================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                  931.125             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                           (+)    774.750  = 1,705.875
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                             1,706
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 10 January 2016, 08:42:04
The Battle Value for the Mad Cat (Timber Wolf) Z (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5822/mad-cat-timber-wolf-z) appears to be incorrectly listed as 3,003 (which matches SSW). My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 2,923. The discrepancy appears to be related to the weapon BV modification due to the heat efficiency calculation. My calculations are as follows:

Code: [Select]
=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous):                        230 x 2.5 x 1                575.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 114 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    128.250  =   703.250
  Gyro (Standard):                              75 x 0.5              (+)     37.500  =   740.750
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Nova CEWS                                                      (+)     68.000  =   808.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +3                    (*)       1.30  = 1,051.375
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,051.375

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       ER Large Laser                                                        248.000             
       ER Large Laser                                                 (+)    248.000  =   496.000
       ER Medium Pulse Laser                                          (+)     58.500  =   554.500
       ER Medium Pulse Laser                                          (+)     58.500  =   613.000
       Improved ATM 9                                                 (+)    231.000  =   844.000
       Improved ATM 9                                                 (+)    231.000  = 1,075.000
       Improved ATM 9 (Ammo 7)                                        (+)     54.000  = 1,129.000
       Improved ATM 9 (Ammo 7)                                        (+)     54.000  = 1,183.000
       Improved ATM 9 (Ammo 7)                                        (+)     54.000  = 1,237.000
       Improved ATM 9 (Ammo 7)                                        (+)     54.000  = 1,291.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)     75.000  = 1,366.000
  Speed Factor:                                 8 (Run) + 0 (Jump)    (*)      1.370  = 1,871.420
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,871.420

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                 1,051.375             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)  1,871.420  = 2,922.795
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                              2,923
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 11 January 2016, 00:07:50
Question: the Sortek Assault Craft (standard) has SRCH property; the Sortek Assault Craft (Interdictor) doesn't.

Two possibilities:
- the Interdictor also deserves the SRCH property;
- the Interdictor can only be used during daylight hours.

I'm guessing the first ;)

Cheers,

W.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 15 January 2016, 09:16:08
Some re-engineered laser errata
The Ebony MEB-13 should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6943/ebony-meb-13
The Spider SDR-10K should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6934/spider-sdr-10k
The Emperor EMP-8L should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6851/emperor-emp-8l
The Sagittaire SGT -14D should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6835/sagittaire-sgt-14d
The Sagittari SGT-4R should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6817/sagittarii-sgt-4r

The Night Stalker NSR-K7 should lose the REL ability  because according to the conversion rules from AS companion you have to cause 1 unit of damage in the medium range bracket (may be we need to errata it to short range or small re-engineered lasers will never give the REL ability)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6720/night-stalker-nsr-k7
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: William J. Pennington on 20 January 2016, 00:58:27
Any suggestions? I can't get any Alpha strike force to print. I've turned off my pop up blocker. I've updated adobe. I've tried chrome and edge. I'm out of ideas.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 20 January 2016, 06:23:36
The PDF printing tool needs to be rewritten after the move to the new host. No ETA at this time.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 20 January 2016, 14:06:31
Any suggestions? I can't get any Alpha strike force to print. I've turned off my pop up blocker. I've updated adobe. I've tried chrome and edge. I'm out of ideas.

In the meantime, expanding the default card, or customizing the card to include changing skill (and skill based PV increases/decreases) and then copying the image into an image editing software of your choice to save as -> insert into word document -> arrange -> print works, but is incredibly cumbersome and irritating.

Ask me how my last official game went.  We had 72 'Mechs. #P
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pezmotion on 28 January 2016, 15:49:01
The cost of the Warhammer 6R (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3488 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3488)) appears to be off by one C-Bill.

The TechManual's formula: (Structural Cost + Weapon/Equipment Cost) * (Omnimech Cost) * (1 + [Total Tonnage / 100])
Applied to the WHM-6R: 3,543,166.667 * 1 * 1.7 = 6,023,383.3339, which rounds down to 6,023,383.

The value for the Structural Cost + Weapon/Equipment Cost is a bit lengthy, but the only item without a nicely rounded cost is the 280 Fusion Engine, which has a cost of 1,306,666.667 (rounded for brevity per the errata). My theory is that the cost was rounded up before plugging it into the Final Unit Cost Formula, which results in a final value of 6,023,383.9, which rounds up to 6,023,384.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Gordon on 01 February 2016, 13:26:58
Seems like the Print/PDF function for Alpha Strike cards is timing out.

Also, can we have an API or perhaps a CSV download for Alpha Strike stats and point costs - no need for calculation for non-4 pilot skills, that's easy enough at the client end.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 01 February 2016, 13:30:46
The PDF printing tool needs to be rewritten after the move to the new host. No ETA at this time.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Gordon on 01 February 2016, 13:31:33
The PDF printing tool needs to be rewritten after the move to the new host. No ETA at this time.

Thanks for repeating that for me, cavingjan :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 01 February 2016, 14:52:50
No problem. For the other suggestion, it is above my pay grade. I think the answer will stay no but TPTB can see it and confirm or change their answer.

Edit: I should have included this in the prior message. For a work around, save the cards as either jpgs or pngs. You can then use your OS print feature to print several on a page. That printing could be paper or if you want that pdf, a free pdf printer that are readily available.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maingunnery on 07 February 2016, 05:39:51

I found a mention of the 'HH-1 compact mobile shipyard' in Wars of Reaving (page 35).

Could this unit please be added to the MUL, with more details if possible?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 12 February 2016, 22:43:58
The Battle Value for the Jenner JR7-K (Grace) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1696/jenner-jr7-k-grace) appears to be incorrectly listed as 737. My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 702. My calculations are as follows:
BV per the RS listed would be 706 with 81 points of armor though that put it 0.5 tons overweight. 80 points of armor brings the weight back into line though I couldn't find any errata after a quick search. With 80 points of armor, the BV would be 702.

The Battle Value for the Gurkha GUR-8G (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5664/gurkha-gur-8g) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,229 (which matches SSW). My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,241. The discrepancy appears to be a result of SSW not factoring in TSM for the BV of the retractable blade. My calculations are as follows:
Correct and MUL updated.
The Battle Value for the No-Dachi NDA-3S (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5692/no-dachi-nda-3s) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,679. My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,706. I'm guessing it's related to the damage adjustment of the Mace due to TSM. My calculations are as follows:
Correct and MUL updated.

The Battle Value for the Chimera CMA-2K (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5667/chimera-cma-2k) appears to be incorrectly listed as 1,507 (which matches SSW). My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 1,528. The discrepancy appears to be a result of SSW not factoring in TSM for the BV of the sword. My calculations are as follows:
Correct and MUL updated.

The Battle Value for the Mad Cat (Timber Wolf) Z (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5822/mad-cat-timber-wolf-z) appears to be incorrectly listed as 3,003 (which matches SSW). My calculations (as well as those from MML) come out to 2,923. The discrepancy appears to be related to the weapon BV modification due to the heat efficiency calculation. My calculations are as follows:
Correct and MUL updated.

All relevant units have had their BVs updated after the re-engineered laser BV adjustments.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: soil1980 on 13 February 2016, 03:40:20
No problem. For the other suggestion, it is above my pay grade. I think the answer will stay no but TPTB can see it and confirm or change their answer.

Edit: I should have included this in the prior message. For a work around, save the cards as either jpgs or pngs. You can then use your OS print feature to print several on a page. That printing could be paper or if you want that pdf, a free pdf printer that are readily available.

Thx for the hint. Print function still isnt working. I thought it was a problem with my computer ;D
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: martian on 21 February 2016, 11:16:28
* VERSION: MUL Online
* LOCATION: Mad Cat Mk II (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4565/mad-cat-mk-ii-standard)
* THE ERROR: MUL Online says that the Intro date of Mad Cat Mk.II (Standard) is 3066. However, Technical Readout: 3067 (Corrected Fourth Printing) with in-universe date of 3067 clearly says that "the Mad Cat Mk II has now been in production for more than half a decade" (p.132, the right column). So if "more than half a decade" is approximately six years, that means that the Intro date is 3067-6=3061.
* THE CORRECTION: The Intro date of Mad Cat Mk.II should be changed to 3061.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 21 February 2016, 12:10:31
Thanks. Changed to 3062 to keep the Civil War era, and TR 3067 in universe date is Dec 3067.  So 5 years would be Dec 3062, and the more than that would be however many months they started production earlier than Dec in 3062.  The TR also has them starting the new project "at the beginning of the decade" and to full-scale production in less than 15 months.  If they started late 3060, that could put them in to 3062 as well.  And I'd rather not change the era if I don't have to.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: martian on 21 February 2016, 12:13:16
OK, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 22 February 2016, 12:42:03
**bump**

Unit: Behemoth II Heavy Tank (Standard)
Link: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6447/behemoth-ii-heavy-tank-standard

Sources:
  TRO3145 Capellan Confederation p.24-25 (unit info)
  Alpha Strike Companion p.107 (weapon table), 137 (role), 139 (conversion)

Issue: the Alpha-Strike card for the Behemoth II  appears to be missing an "IF" value per the conversion information in the ASC.
. [8x Thunderbolt_5 = 2.34/4.0/4.0 damage; IF# = Long Range damage, or 4.0]

Suggested changes:
. Add "IF4" to the listed specials
. Adjust "TUR" special to include "IF4"
. Adjust "PV" to 50
. . PV calculations: 26 OFV + 24.25 DFV + 0 GFB
. Adjust Role to "Missile Boat" (over 50% of the damage at Long Range is dealt by the missile systems)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 22 February 2016, 12:56:14
Thanks, Behemoth II corrected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 22 February 2016, 13:00:37
The Alpha Strike stats for the Mad Cat Mk IV (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=mad+cat+mk+iv) family are off. As per Alpha Strike Companion pg 98, the Structure Value for a 75 ton Clan 'Mech with an XXL engine should be three; the MUL Alpha Strike Card gives it as two

Thanks. Fixed.  PVs also went up 1 due to Structure increase.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 22 February 2016, 14:53:41
Some re-engineered laser errata
The Ebony MEB-13 should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6943/ebony-meb-13
The Spider SDR-10K should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6934/spider-sdr-10k
The Emperor EMP-8L should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6851/emperor-emp-8l
The Sagittaire SGT -14D should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6835/sagittaire-sgt-14d
The Sagittari SGT-4R should have the REL special ability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6817/sagittarii-sgt-4r

The Night Stalker NSR-K7 should lose the REL ability  because according to the conversion rules from AS companion you have to cause 1 unit of damage in the medium range bracket (may be we need to errata it to short range or small re-engineered lasers will never give the REL ability)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6720/night-stalker-nsr-k7

REL added/removed as listed above.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Stinger on 01 March 2016, 08:40:50
Pendragon PDG-1X
Pendragon PDG-1R
Pendragon PDG-2R

All units should have the CASEII ability, not CASE.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4799/pendragon-pdg-1r

NCKestrel: corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rishingo on 05 March 2016, 05:40:09
Cost is still shown as something you can Filter by, but no longer shows up in the columns once sorting is complete.  Is this a recent removal, or am I using the wrong browser?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 05 March 2016, 09:20:35
You're not scrolling far enough to get past the ones with no cost.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 05 March 2016, 14:12:51
The Jihad era data is listed as Complete, but its missing two 'Mechs, both of which can be found in the Total Chaos book.

AWS-10KM Awesome (Cameron)
AS7-D-H Atlas II (Devlin)

Also, will the MUL be reconfigured so the eras match eras as listed in IO?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rishingo on 05 March 2016, 19:16:43
You're not scrolling far enough to get past the ones with no cost.

No, some of the lists I get back (eg. Only Mechs that cost between 1,000,000 to 3,500,00 C-Bills, only from inner sphere, only age of war, Star League, and Early Succession Wars) return a list of around 20 or so, and there's no column for price shown.  And I know there used to be, 'cause I've used the MUL before to prove to my players that a certain 'Mech costs X not Y to resolve arguments.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 05 March 2016, 20:52:52
The Jihad era data is listed as Complete, but its missing two 'Mechs, both of which can be found in the Total Chaos book.

AWS-10KM Awesome (Cameron)
AS7-D-H Atlas II (Devlin)
Added. The Jihad may be marked as complete for faction data but this can happen when a product adds new units if we don't get them put in right away. Eridani Epsilon are also added. Alpha Strike stats will be entered this weekend.

Thank you for bringing it to our attention.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 11 March 2016, 18:14:06
All of the Zeus-X designs from TR3145LC should be renamed "Zeus X" to match the Record Sheets and fluff from said product.

The 9WD and 9WD (Stacy) should remain "Zeus-X" as that's how their RS and writeups in Wolf and Blake are done.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 March 2016, 18:22:10
If we make that change, the 9WD models will no longer show as a variant of the other ones. The MUL will treat it as a completely separate base unit. It will probably be more appropriate to change them all to Zeus X.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 11 March 2016, 18:39:26
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6631/zeus-x-zeu-x

The DC didn't even start working on prototype Reactive armor until 3058. The write up in TR3145LC states "whose limited production during the Civil War merely served propaganda." The date should be bumped up to 3062+
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 15 March 2016, 08:28:19
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7346/hunchback-hbk-7s

Card is not generating.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 15 March 2016, 08:45:32
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7346/hunchback-hbk-7s

Card is not generating.

We haven't created/entered AS stats for it yet.

EDIT: Now we have.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 15 March 2016, 09:21:32
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6631/zeus-x-zeu-x

The DC didn't even start working on prototype Reactive armor until 3058. The write up in TR3145LC states "whose limited production during the Civil War merely served propaganda." The date should be bumped up to 3062+

Time for that yearly debate....OK, it's off to discussion by the MUL team.  Hopefully we'll have an answer sometime.  (Last year we agreed that 3054 was wrong, but couldn't settle on 3059 versus 3063).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 15 March 2016, 14:27:58
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4787/panther-pnt-9r-tanaka

Needs AS card
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 15 March 2016, 14:47:05
Whenever you try to customize an existing card, even just to change the picture, the type and the skill level go blank and have to be re-filled in.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 16 March 2016, 10:54:36
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4994/scorpion-scp-1n-rubinsky


Need AS card
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 March 2016, 11:09:38
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4994/scorpion-scp-1n-rubinsky

Need AS card

If there is no Record Sheet listed, then an AS card might not be possible.  Please do not list units that don't have an RS listed, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 16 March 2016, 14:06:35
If there is no Record Sheet listed, then an AS card might not be possible.  Please do not list units that don't have an RS listed, thanks.

If there is no record sheet, then how does it have a BV listed? If there really isn't one, please pass that along up the chain to someone who can make one, rather than just asking me to stop asking about it.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5810/warhammer-whm-6k-yorinaga

Needs AS card
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 16 March 2016, 14:15:55
If there really isn't one, please pass that along up the chain to someone who can make one, rather than just asking me to stop asking about it.

We are striving to fill in all units, eventually.  However, you are being told how the process works, by one of the major people behind the process.  Please follow the instructions.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 March 2016, 14:21:46
I'm just trying to save you the work of filling out posts that won't change anything.  If it doesn't have an RS, there's no point in filling out post that says there is no AS card.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 16 March 2016, 14:43:12
Sorry if I sound snarky, but I don't have access to all the record sheets. So there is no way for me to know if one unit doesn't have one.

I'm just seeing a hole and letting you know it needs plugging, if that's not possible at this time, that's fine.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 16 March 2016, 15:18:46
The "TRO/RS" category tells you where the record sheet can be found.  If it is listed as "None", then no record sheet exists.

Here (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/192) is a convenient list of all units on the MUL that currently have "None" as their record sheet source to reference when you come across something like this again.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 16 March 2016, 15:32:35
I see a lot of Omnimech base models, so those would obviously not have cards.

Yet, mysteriously, some of those other units do have cards....

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4556/mackie-msk-7a

So, what gives? How does that work for some units but not others?  ???
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 March 2016, 15:38:17
I see a lot of Omnimech base models, so those would obviously not have cards.

Yet, mysteriously, some of those other units do have cards....

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4556/mackie-msk-7a

So, what gives? How does that work for some units but not others?  ???

You got a bonus.  You're welcome.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 16 March 2016, 17:31:29
You got a bonus.  You're welcome.

It was incorrectly tagged as no record sheet. That is fixed now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 16 March 2016, 20:14:28
I see a lot of Omnimech base models, so those would obviously not have cards.

Yet, mysteriously, some of those other units do have cards....

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4556/mackie-msk-7a

So, what gives? How does that work for some units but not others?  ???
The record sheets collection for TRO: Prototypes is still in the works. While the stats are published in the book, there's no published sheets. The same goes for all units associated with Historical: Reunification War; published stats but no published record sheets. Incorrectly tagged units have been mostly corrected.  :) Others are being looked into.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Stinger on 17 March 2016, 10:41:32
Pendragon PDG-1X
Pendragon PDG-1R
Pendragon PDG-2R

All units should have the CASEII ability, not CASE.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4799/pendragon-pdg-1r

NCKestrel: corrected, thanks.

Second issue with Pendragons.  All have composite structure, so structure value should be 2, not 4.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 17 March 2016, 11:08:05
Second issue with Pendragons.  All have composite structure, so structure value should be 2, not 4.

Corrected along with appropriate PVs.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 17 March 2016, 11:34:21
I don't know much about Alpha Strike, but I *think* the HBK-7S and TSN-X-4 should have the RCN ability.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7346/hunchback-hbk-7s
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5549/tessen-tsn-x-4


Xotl: correct.  Updated along with PVs.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 17 March 2016, 11:42:23
The Assassin Model 99 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/130/assassin-asn-99) should have the ECM special.


Xotl: correct.  Updated along with PV.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 17 March 2016, 20:37:30
Not exactly an errata but more of a question.
What about faction use lists from 3 sources:
RS 3145 NTNU
TRO: 3145 RoTS
XTRO: Republic vol 1?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 17 March 2016, 21:11:37
On the To Do list. I'll poke around to see if someone has any notes on these.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 17 March 2016, 21:17:23
On the To Do list. I'll poke around to see if someone has any notes on these.

Thank you very much.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 18 March 2016, 08:52:00
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/495/cauldron-born-ebon-jaguar-h

None of the pictures for the Ebon Jaguar are loading.

Might I suggest using this pic?

http://operationbulldog.blogspot.com/2010/12/nova-cat-dossier-ebon-jaguar-cauldron.html
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 March 2016, 09:17:04
Cauldron-Born (Ebon Jaguar) pictures are loading now, thanks for pointing that out.  (Using the TR3058 picture though, not the older FM picture you linked too).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 21 March 2016, 13:44:23
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5856/cheetah-ii-f-12a

Missing AS card
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Ck16 on 21 March 2016, 14:03:30
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4565/mad-cat-mk-ii-standard

TRO 3067 pg. 132-133
http://i.imgur.com/k6eop2R.png
http://i.imgur.com/of5Z3lC.png

Would Jade Falcon and Clan Wolf or more clans be able to be added to the MUL for the Mad Cat Mk.II

It says in TRO3067 "Clans Wolf and Jade Falcon, both obvious candidates for sales, have purchased none; neither has Clan Ice Hellion or even Clan Steel Viper (though all field a few won through various Trials).

 So Ice Hellion is included on the MUL though but not the other 3.

For the Role?
Are you sure it is a Brawler? Is the base variant more a sniper or at least mid range platform rather then brawling? I could see the Mk.II 2 being a brawler but the original?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 21 March 2016, 14:52:48
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/ExtensionCard/952?extensionid=1043

Squad size reads as 0 for 5 man unit.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 21 March 2016, 15:50:15
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1722/jump-platoon-rifle

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2239/motorized-platoon-rifle

Need AS cards
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 21 March 2016, 16:09:42
In reverse order:
Ballistic and Rifle are redundant with each other. We haven't had a chance to remove the extra one.

I'll see if I can get the 0 changed to a 5 on the Elemental when I get home from the hospital tonight.

The Mad Cat is more of a mid range brawler. Brawlers are not short ranged units. Brawlers are also called troopers. The CIH entry for the Civil War era is most likely in error. I'll confirm and update.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Ck16 on 21 March 2016, 16:13:52
Much appreciated thank you!

If it ends up not an error can you look into seeing if Wolf and Falcon are maybe missing if using the same sentence I quoted as backing for CIH?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 23 March 2016, 19:03:00
Jinggau JN-G7L, MUL entry http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1707/jinggau-jn-g7l

Comes up as available in Clan Invasion period. As per the MUL, introduction date 3068, Era Jihad, with the note "There was one protoype in 3059 that failed. ".

Problem: if the only existing unit in 3059 - singular - failed, then there's no unit available in Clan Invasion period.

Fix: remove from Clan Invasion availability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 23 March 2016, 19:47:49
But how can I start that secret Liao super army? Looking through the working files, it had a date of 3059. I have no clue when that got changed as more recent files have the correct date. It is fixed now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 23 March 2016, 20:12:22
Problem: Prototype misspelled in that Jinggau entry. Huge problem, I know.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 23 March 2016, 20:25:07
But how can I start that secret Liao super army? Looking through the working files, it had a date of 3059. I have no clue when that got changed as more recent files have the correct date. It is fixed now.

I think there was a placeholder entry for a "JN-G6L" prototype with the 3059 date from back when I was inventing dates for everything, since I wasn't sure if it would see the light of day or not. This was well before it was decided to have the MUL track faction availability, and we were including everything and the kitchen sink just in case it was useful down the road. Perhaps its entry just got merged with the JN-G7L by accident. My working files are long-gone, of course, but this was probably my mistake.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 23 March 2016, 20:57:35
You can take the blame for the typo of prototype. The date and faction data is mine.  ;)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 23 March 2016, 21:09:35
"Construction of the JN-7GL was sidelined by the decision to restart an OstBosch construction line. Following the disturbing revelations accompanying that failed exercise, the technicians involved volunteered spontaneously to undergo tequila therapy to remove their memories, before spending their remaining days atoning in the proof-reading mines of Capella ..."
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 24 March 2016, 10:42:20
Fiddling with Watchdog CEWS units, or "WAT" Special, the following units are missing the "ECM" "LPRB" specials and their requisite conversion cost (Ground Force Bonuses, Alpha Strike Companion table p.140), or +3 PV each.

Hankyu F : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6940/hankyu-arctic-cheetah-f
Parash 2: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2427/parash-2
Tiburon (Standard) : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6552/tiburon-standard
Wight -4NC Dezgra : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5600/wight-wgt-4nc-dezgra
Beowulf IIC PR :  http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7294/beowulf-iic-pr
Ursus 3  :  http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5329/ursus-3
Gladiator G : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6841/gladiator-executioner-g
Daishi E  : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6833/daishi-dire-wolf-e
Sulla F : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6816/sulla-f
Ostrogoth D : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6810/ostrogoth-d
Jengiz X  : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4398/jengiz-x
Scytha F  : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6808/scytha-f
Scytha X  :  http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5003/scytha-x

Edit Calculations were done by hand for Daishi E, Gladiator G, Hankyu F, Parash 2, Beowulf IIC (PR and Standard), and Scytha (F and X) via their respective record sheets/TROs

...
The Hankyu [F] also should have a Jump value of 12", {currently 8"}; though this should not change it's MF calculation (not it's top speed, still uses jump movement)
...
Beowulf IIC (Standard) -- Among the listed Specials, it's missing the WAT special (per RS_Prototypes), and should be added for Search Result purposes.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 24 March 2016, 12:36:23
Something I discovered when making a custom card for a small craft:

A threshold value will only display on the card if the type is "AF" or "CF".  I know DropShips and such with multiple firing arcs are beyond the scope of that tool, but small craft (SC) should be able use the same card as fighters.

Addendum: In addition to losing TH values, putting SC under type also removes the aerospace extreme range band.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 24 March 2016, 14:21:18
Fiddling with Watchdog CEWS units, or "WAT" Special, the following units are missing the "ECM" "LPRB" specials and their requisite conversion cost (Ground Force Bonuses, Alpha Strike Companion table p.140), or +3 PV each.


I'll attempt to tackle these tonight.  Thanks.

EDIT: All done.  Thanks again.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 24 March 2016, 14:24:10
Something I discovered when making a custom card for a small craft:

A threshold value will only display on the card if the type is "AF" or "CF".  I know DropShips and such with multiple firing arcs are beyond the scope of that tool, but small craft (SC) should be able use the same card as fighters.

Addendum: In addition to losing TH values, putting SC under type also removes the aerospace extreme range band.

Units small craft sized or larger are not supported by the MUL at this time.  It's not just the custom card generator, we can't do canon units of those types correctly either.  I don't expect to see that capability added any time soon unfortunately.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pheonixstorm on 24 March 2016, 15:13:14
Infantry BV calculations are incorrect for Total Warfare units.

It would appear that they are using the older infantry weapon tables rather than from the newer errata tables.
Verified by hand and by MegaMek Lab
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pheonixstorm on 25 March 2016, 21:18:14
Total Warfare Foot Platoon (Flamer) BV calculated using single support weapon while TW shows the platoon as using two.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pheonixstorm on 26 March 2016, 20:09:59
House Davion Gauss Infantry:

Not sure where this one fits. HB House Davion, TechManual, or MUL.

According the HBHD Gauss Infantry are supposed to carry 6 M345B3 Thunderstroke II Gauss rifles.
The MUL gives this unit an intro date of 3061
TechManual has an intro on the rifle of 3062

Which needs errata. Should the rifles intro be changed? Does the intro for the three infantry units on the MUL need to change to 3062?

Based just on HBHD I would think that the MUL intro should be changed to 3062. This may be a simple change for the MUL or may require further discussion among TPTB
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 27 March 2016, 16:42:06
Fiddling with Watchdog CEWS units, or "WAT" Special, the following units are missing the "ECM" "LPRB" specials and their requisite conversion cost (Ground Force Bonuses, Alpha Strike Companion table p.140), or +3 PV each.

Gladiator G : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6841/gladiator-executioner-g


http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/ExtensionCard/952?extensionid=1043

Reads squad 0 instead of 5

Have these been corrected?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 28 March 2016, 09:45:05
The three units from OTP: Capellan Crusades are missing
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 March 2016, 09:56:20
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/ExtensionCard/952?extensionid=1043

Reads squad 0 instead of 5

Have these been corrected?

It has now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 March 2016, 10:00:51
House Davion Gauss Infantry:

Not sure where this one fits. HB House Davion, TechManual, or MUL.

According the HBHD Gauss Infantry are supposed to carry 6 M345B3 Thunderstroke II Gauss rifles.
The MUL gives this unit an intro date of 3061
TechManual has an intro on the rifle of 3062

Which needs errata. Should the rifles intro be changed? Does the intro for the three infantry units on the MUL need to change to 3062?

Based just on HBHD I would think that the MUL intro should be changed to 3062. This may be a simple change for the MUL or may require further discussion among TPTB

Date changed on Gauss infantry to 3062. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Ck16 on 28 March 2016, 12:17:10
How reliable is the Faction Force table in Combat Operations (10979)? Just curious if this is held in same view as a RAT or more reliable source? We talked about wondering if Clan Ice Hellion was a mistake, I think I found where they got the idea to place them on the MUL for the Mk.II though in the first place, among CIH also on that list for Clans is ironically again Jade Falcon and as well Wolf in Exile.

Page references.

For Clan
Diamond Shark(Pg.112)
Ice Hellion (Pg.115)
Jade Falcon (Pg.116)
Nova Cat (Pg.116)
Wolf-In-Exile (Pg.119)

For IS
Kurita (Pg.125)
Davion (Pg.127)
Steiner (Pg.132)
Star League-3061 (Pg.133)


Also Star League guessing from use with in Nova Cat as well as the few house units but worth adding maybe as well if there is enough to back the other clans?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 March 2016, 12:37:28
Faction Availability has no rules.  It's a brawl between various conflicting sources, opinions, bizarre rituals and occasionally direct intervention by powers beyond the MUL team.

Usually we try to take all sources in to account.  If there is a direct conflict (same unit, same time, different answers), then we often prioritize either a current Technical Readout or more recently published source.

But none of those are rules.  Thirty years of sourcebooks and dozens if not hundreds of different authors means we can write specific rules, but have to take each case as it comes.  You are welcome to make suggestions, that's why this errata thread specifically allows suggestions.  We don't require a definitive answer before you ask, because there often isn't one.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Ck16 on 28 March 2016, 12:48:23
Alright thanks! Just trying to help, I kinda understand why reluctant due to the TRO stating that the only ones that would have been in service with Wolf, Jade Falcon, Ice Hellion, and Steel Vipers as noted were only obtained in winning them through various trials. It only says a few so I think there is a little conflict by what a few actually means in terms of numbers. -edit: miss read TRO thought made mention of unknown amount in the Lyran forces.-

I just am a bit surprised by only Diamond Shark and Nova Cat on the MUL I guess for clans. Was expecting or hoping for a few more Clans on that list, at least Wolf in Exile during the Civil War. Find it odd though that Falcon is mentioned both on the RAT and FFT while they despised the mech supposedly.

I just linked those if it was worthy to note them or not for the MUL at least maybe in Jihad and later years. The only source we have for Mk.II in Fedcom Civil war is in 3067 stuff right at the end of it all.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Ck16 on 28 March 2016, 15:48:35
For the Mad Cat Mk.II (I am not trying to push this to much)

Clan Ghost Bear: Could the argument that since the RAT in Field Manual: Updates does list Ghost Bear with them on the 2nd line battlemechs? I know some in the RAT is contradicted by the TRO (AKA Jade Falcon having them though hating them ect.) BUT Ghost Bear was never mentioned in the TRO at having or not having the mech OR objecting to the mech (at least as far as my research has found). They were business partners with Diamond Shark as mentioned in Field Manual portion of Diamond Sharks. The mech does kinda fit the Ghost Bear profile in fast,agile, firepower, decent protection. They would have been rebuilding a bit after the border conflicts between DCS/Nova Cat and Hells Horses. But it is still on a list for units available somewhat to that faction for selection right?

Clan Wolf In Exile:
They are listed as posted above in the Combat Operations installment of rules (3067), they do have the Mad Cat Mk.II in their Faction Force Table (still a bit confused if this is worthy or not). There is no contradiction between the TRO and this installment and similar to the Ghost Bear's situation of rebuilding.

Thoughts? Or is the Mk.II pretty set in stone for the Fedcom era?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 28 March 2016, 17:44:53
Information that was reviewed at the time that the faction data for that era was compiled.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adrian Gideon on 28 March 2016, 17:53:02
How reliable is the Faction Force table in Combat Operations (10979)?
Not at all really. That was the first attempt at a faction availability list, and it's now over a decade out of date.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Ck16 on 28 March 2016, 17:58:57
Alright, I just was curious I guess about all this, looks like any changes will not happen unless a new TRO is done up, that I don't think will change anything as added, sorry to question it a little bit.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 29 March 2016, 22:27:51
Would it be possible to get some images for the infantry platoons and points? Right now they are blank.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1147/foot-platoon-rifle

I was thinking some higher resolution pics from pg.23 of total warfare might serve the purpose.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 30 March 2016, 13:06:05
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5242/ti-tsang-tsg-9ddc

This should actually be called the TSG-9DDC Ti Ts'ang DDC.

I'm honestly not sure if its a "Ti Ts'ang DCC" with a variant number of TSG-9DDC, or if the extra DDC is an extra identifier, much like a character's name would be, but both XTRO Liao and TRO Prototypes are definitive about the extra DDC
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 30 March 2016, 13:14:23
Making it a "Ti Ts'ang DDC" would keep it from appearing in the variants list on any other Ti Ts'ang due to how those are handled (at least, that's my understanding).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 30 March 2016, 13:15:58
Making it a "Ti Ts'ang DDC" would keep it from appearing in the variants list on any other Ti Ts'ang due to how those are handled (at least, that's my understanding).

That's why the MUL lists it as it does.  It's an exception to general MUL naming rules.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 31 March 2016, 13:10:28
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4935/rook-nh-1x-rook-x

I assume the name change from Rook-X to Rook is for the same reason as the Ti ts'ang DDC? But if you have the extra name "Rook-X" on it, why the change from NH-1B to NH-1X?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 31 March 2016, 13:12:31
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4935/rook-nh-1x-rook-x

I assume the name change from Rook-X to Rook is for the same reason as the Ti ts'ang DDC? But if you have the extra name "Rook-X" on it, why the change from NH-1B to NH-1X?

Because there was already a different NH-1B.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jh316 on 31 March 2016, 15:39:55
I see that the ASN-21 has IF0* and the ASN-101 doesn't, is there a reason for that?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/127/assassin-asn-21
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/126/assassin-asn-101
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 31 March 2016, 17:05:52
Because there was already a different NH-1B.

Sure, but there are 4 JR7-K Jenners, and that's not a problem, because they all have different names after them, why is that different for the Rook-X? And are these official name changes, or just MUL changes?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1011/eyleuka-eyl-4a

Has an intro date of 3068, but the era seems to be set for the Civil War. Not really sure which is correct to be honest.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 31 March 2016, 17:25:50
There one JR7-K and three modified JR7-Ks.  That's not the same as two different Rooks with the same designation.  Yes, it's errata to XTR Retrotech.  It should be in the errata thread for it ( if not, should be added).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 01 April 2016, 10:59:58
I'll leave that up to you, along with the report on the Ti Ts'ang DDC.

Here's an oddity for the coders

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=3068&MaxIntro=3075&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&Types=18&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=

If you click that, you get a page that shows all BattleMechs, with intro dates from 3068 to 3075. But if you sort it from lowest to highest, two things interesting pop up.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7398/atlas-ii-as7-d-h-devlin
Which has no date (Still) so I'm not really sure why its being pulled, but maybe the mul recognizes its supposed to be in the Era that the intro years chosen follow..or something like that.

But the big weird one is
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/298/battlemaster-blr-6x

Which has an intro year of 3085. There's no way this should be showing up in the search, and yet it does. It also sort of seems to hang out there. I've changed the parameters on the Years to 3068-3076 and it shows up again. But a search of 3075 to 3084, it doesn't show up.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 01 April 2016, 11:31:11
What you don't see is that there are two date fields. The visible one can be blank or even use text. The internal one for search purposes is strictly numbers. I would guess the dates are mismatched on the battlemaster. I'll have to check.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 01 April 2016, 13:37:38
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/752/crusader-crd-3r

Shouldn't this be 2572 instead of 2752? The writeup in TR3039 states that it fought in the Reunification War and was introduced in the late 26th Century. Could be a transposing of numbers?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 01 April 2016, 13:47:32
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/752/crusader-crd-3r

Shouldn't this be 2572 instead of 2752? The writeup in TR3039 states that it fought in the Reunification War and was introduced in the late 26th Century. Could be a transposing of numbers?

The Crusader was introduced (the 1R) in the late 26th century, not the 3R.  The discussion was years ago so I don't remember the specifics, but the 3R couldn't have been the late 26th century model.  That's why the 1R entry was created.

Ah, I think I remember why now. The 3R is the 2R without the streak and artemis (ancient battletech lore).  But Streaks didn't exist in the late 26th century.  So the 1R was a 2R without Streak SRM-2s.  The 2R then switched to Streaks.  The 3R was then the downgrade model.  It didn't go 3R, then 2R, then back to 3R.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 01 April 2016, 14:33:50
Okaleedokalee. Though I could've thought of easier fixes that didn't screw up previous fluff :) But I'll digress.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 01 April 2016, 14:47:43
Okaleedokalee. Though I could've thought of easier fixes that didn't screw up previous fluff :) But I'll digress.

Go for it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 01 April 2016, 19:37:14
Well, since the 1R doesn't exist yet, I'm left off the hook for the not knowing about it. :) But still. This seems to only be an issue because whoever wrote up the 2R didn't read the fluff on the 3R. I would've thought the simplest answer would've been to issue errata and change the name of the 2R to the 4R, then you keep the 3039 fluff intact, and don't have to try to explain why the Star League suddenly started to produce downgraded Crusaders at the height of their technological prowess.

So you get the 3R at 2572 (or something similar) that matches the fluff from 3039
Quote
Introduced in the late twenty-sixth century, the CRD-3R Crusader became the workhorse of the SLDF’s line regiments as they battled Periphery troops during the Reunification War.
Quote

Then you have the 4R at 2649, which is a few years after Streak technology was invented. Which makes sense. Its an advanced version of one of the SLDF's "workhorse" design.

And then after the fall of the Star League as technology declined, the 3R was put back into production as an introtech design as "other manufacturers continued to churn out Crusaders, making them one of the most common heavy BattleMechs in existence." (3039).

I mean, its not like 3075 wasn't already filled with errata (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,5936.0.html). And we're just talking about a single number change (and really, its not like we haven't seen odd numberings before, but hey, TR3075 can take a bit more errata to keep people from pulling their hair out over it). So this way you match the fluff and don't have to try to explain why the Star League downgraded their design at the height of technology.

The way it is now, it seems like the decision was made to ignore the fluff from 3039, create a whole new 'Mech that's never been mentioned as existing before, and create a downgraded 'Mech when they have no reason to really exist. Its like the decision took the most complicated way possible WITH the added bonus of ignoring specific fluff from not all that old of a product.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 01 April 2016, 20:06:58
You didn't go back far enough.  TR 3025 talks about the "original Crusaders" superior long range (Phoenix) and short range (hawk) missiles.  That had long supposed to mean Artemis and Streak.  The 2R just made that official.
But Streaks didn't exist in the 26th century (late or otherwise).  TechManual lists them as around 2650?
Therefore the 2R couldn't have been the original in the late 26th century either.
We were going to have to break canon somewhere. We decided interpreting 3039 to be referring to the Crusader in general, and not the 3R in specific, was the less damaging of breaks. 
There is no solution that doesn't break at least some fluff.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 01 April 2016, 20:57:52
Nope, I went back. :) I just considered the specific of TR3039 to trump the apocryphal, non-specific of TR3025, which was a flawed product.

I mean, there's a reason that CGL rewrote all those entries and did 3039, rather than just reprinting TR3025. To give priority to 3025 seems odd to me. But you've explained your position, and y'all are in charge, so that's that :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 03 April 2016, 11:15:14
Pursuant to the linked ruling: (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=52024.msg1200628#msg1200628)

Should the Bolla Stealth Tank's Specials be amended to not have C3S (and C3M where appropriate) and their PVs suitably recalculated, since by the ruling they can never use C3?  There is no way to turn STL off, and no critical hit, damage, or opponent's action that can disable STL.

I lament the loss of the most hilarious combo in Alpha Strike (now that I'm aware of it), but the points are still being paid for the C3.

This would also affect the the WOB version of the Bolla, the Raven 4LC (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2667/raven-rvn-4lc), Mongoose II 267 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2217/mongoose-ii-mon-267), the Sha Yu 4B (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5027/sha-yu-syu-4b), the Nexus II NXS2-B (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2262/nexus-ii-nxs2-b), Raijin II 200-B (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2629/raijin-ii-rjn-200-b) and C (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2630/raijin-ii-rjn-200-c), Cronus TD9 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5680/cronus-cns-td9), Goliath 5W (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1236/goliath-gol-5w), both the Hunter Killer [C3/HRR] (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6740/grenadier-battle-armor-hunter-killer-c3hrr) and Grenadier II (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7391/grenadier-ii-battle-armor-b), the Kobold X-C3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5561/kobold-battle-armor-x-c3), and finally the Tortoise II (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7359/tortoise-ii-battle-armor-c3) battle armor suits.

Similarly, a number of units (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=true&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=STL+PRB&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=) have both STL and PRB.  PRB likewise does not work under an ECM field.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 03 April 2016, 21:40:16
Wasp LAM WSP-110  (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5391/wasp-lam-wsp-110)

No weight listed; as per Wasp chassis, & other record sheets, this should be 30 tons.

Side question - all LAMs are listed as role NONE. I believe LAMs should qualify for role SCOUT (ASC, p135):

Scout units are the speedsters of any force. Designed to serve in the forefront of any action, where they act as reconnaissance elements, Scouts favor mobility over all other considerations. Most Scouts, therefore, tend to be small, lightly armored, and barely armed. Because of this, these units should avoid combat unless in swarms.

Thanks in advance,

W.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 04 April 2016, 10:49:23
Behemoth (Stone Rhino) variants 2-6 lack art
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/319/behemoth-stone-rhino-2
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/320/behemoth-stone-rhino-3
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3814/behemoth-stone-rhino-4
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3815/behemoth-stone-rhino-5
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3816/behemoth-stone-rhino-6

Behemoth (Stone Rhino) (Standard) has the silhouette
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/318/behemoth-stone-rhino-standard

but the (Prototype) has the unseen art
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3813/behemoth-stone-rhino-prototype
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 April 2016, 11:15:42
Prototype deleted, it got canonized as the Matar.

(Standard), 5 and 6 have silhouette.   2-4 have the Reseen image.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 April 2016, 11:32:26
Wasp LAM WSP-110  (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5391/wasp-lam-wsp-110)

No weight listed; as per Wasp chassis, & other record sheets, this should be 30 tons.
Looks like somebody already fixed this.

Quote
Side question - all LAMs are listed as role NONE. I believe LAMs should qualify for role SCOUT (ASC, p135):

Assigned Wasp and Stinger LAMs as Scouts, Phoenix Hawk LAMs as Strikers, and Shadow Hawk LAMs as Snipers.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xiwo Xerase on 04 April 2016, 18:16:56
Commando COM-1D (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/669/commando-com-1d) appears to be missing art.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 04 April 2016, 18:23:50
Looks like somebody already fixed this.

Assigned Wasp and Stinger LAMs as Scouts, Phoenix Hawk LAMs as Strikers, and Shadow Hawk LAMs as Snipers.

Thankee! That works well, albeit I would have been happy with the Pheenies as Scouts also. Means my Marik Guard company won't be all Support lances ;)

W.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adgar76 on 05 April 2016, 09:01:25
The Uller (Kit Fox) I is incorrectly listed with a ground speed of 10''.
Should be:
6 (base) x 1.25 (supercharger) -1 (modular armor) = 6.5 (rounds up to 7, or 14'').
Because of this, the TMM should be +3.
PV should be recalculated accordingly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 05 April 2016, 09:17:37
The Uller (Kit Fox) I is incorrectly listed with a ground speed of 10''.
Should be:
6 (base) x 1.25 (supercharger) -1 (modular armor) = 6.5 (rounds up to 7, or 14'').
Because of this, the TMM should be +3.
PV should be recalculated accordingly.

Thanks.  We missed the supercharger. Move, TMM and PV updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adgar76 on 06 April 2016, 05:51:56
Apologies in advance if my math is off, but I think I might have spotted a couple wrong stats on the Surat (Gray Death) Solahma Suit:

For a 4-man (and 5-man) squad, Short Range Damage should be 3, not 2:
( 5,7 (Heavy Small laser) + 0,5 (AP Weapon) ) x 3,5 (Troop Factor) / 10 = 6,2 x 3,5 /10 = 2,17 (rounds up to 3)

For a 4-man squad, Armor should be 1:
9 (armor of a single trooper) x 4 / 30 = 36 / 30 = 1,2 (rounds normally to 1)

To get an Armor value of 2, you would need a 5-man squad:
9 (armor of a single trooper) x 5 / 30 = 45 / 30 = 1,5 (rounds normally to 2)

By my math, the PV of a 4-man squad with the updated stats should remain at 9 points:
( 9 (Defensive value) + 3 (Offensive Value) ) x 0,75 (movement of 6'' and only S damage) = 12 x 0,75 = 9
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 06 April 2016, 09:33:51
@Adgar76 - Your damage calculation looks good to me (I have 2.17 as well, which rounds UP to 3).
I think because the Surat are "CAR5" the 2 Armor bubbles is correct; the "Squad 4" should probably be "Squad 5" (defaults to Clan formation, being a Solahama).  ...However, when putting my own formulas in...

a "CAR4" should be 8 PV
both "CAR5" and "CAR6" should both be 10 PV

"Surat" Gray Death Solahma Suit (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7307/surat-gray-death-solahma-suit-standard)
reference: XTRO_Republic I, p.14
AlphaStrike Companion p.90-141

(my work is offline, pending TPTB using their own tables/values)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 06 April 2016, 09:53:47
Surat has been updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 06 April 2016, 15:26:19
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7395/ti-tsang-jason

Should have "()" around the name "Jason" to match up with other designs.

Also, the abbreviation for the Battletech Dossiers: Jason Zaklan (http://masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/418) should most likely be "BD:JZ" rather than "BT:JZ" to match with the other Battletech Dossiers.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 06 April 2016, 15:30:19
Thanks, (Jason) and the source abbreviation corrected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 06 April 2016, 16:48:14
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2578/preta-c-prt-oe-eminus

Should be advanced (Thunderbolt Launcher)

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1325/grigori-c-grg-oe-eminus

Should be advanced (Thunderbolt Launcher)

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1319/grigori-c-grg-o-tamiel

Should be advanced (Thunderbolt Launcher)

Edit
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1826/koschei-ksc-5x

Should be Advanced as well, the only non-Tourney tech it has on it (At that time) are Claws, which are Advanced :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 06 April 2016, 18:23:26
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1197/gladiator-keller

According to RS3075u-AoW, page 100, this should be called the GLD-1R Gladiator (Keller).

Also, the BV should be 1553
Quote
Defensive BV Calculation Breakdown
(Note: BV Calculations include defensive BV for armored components.)
________________________________________________________________________________
Total Armor Factor (185) * Armor Type Modifier (1.0) * 2.5                462.50
Total Structure Points (91) * Structure Type Modifier (1.0)
    * Engine Type Modifier (0.75) * 1.5                                   102.38
Mech Tonnage (55) * Gyro Type Modifer (0.5)                                27.50
Total Defensive BV of all Equipment                                         5.00
Excessive Ammunition Penalty                                                0.00
Explosive Ammunition Penalty                                              -30.00
Explosive Item Penalty                                                     -3.00
Subtotal                                                                  564.38
Defensive Speed Factor Breakdown:
    Maximum Ground Movement Modifier: 1.30
    Maximum Jump Movement Modifier:   1.30
    Defensive Speed Factor Bonus from Equipment: 0.00
    Minimum Defensive Speed Factor:   0.00
    (Max of Run or Jump) + DSF Bonus = 1.30
Total DBV (Subtotal * Defensive Speed Factor (1.30))                      733.69


Offensive BV Calculation Breakdown
________________________________________________________________________________
Heat Efficiency (6 + 22 - 3) = 25
Adjusted Weapon BV Total WBV                                              398.50
    -> Snub-Nose PPC + PPC Capacitor                                      252.00
    -> ER Medium Laser                                                     62.00
    -> ER Medium Laser                                                     62.00
    -> MML-5                                                               22.50
Non-Heat Equipment Total NHBV                                              12.00
    -> Improved C3 Computer                                                 0.00
    -> @ MML-5 (LRM)                                                        6.00
    -> @ MML-5 (SRM)                                                        6.00
Excessive Ammunition Penalty                                                0.00
Mech Tonnage Bonus                                                         55.00
Subtotal (WBV + NHBV - Excessive Ammo + Tonnage Bonus)                    465.50
Offensive Speed Factor Breakdown:
    Adjusted Running MP (8) + ( Adjusted Jumping MP (6) / 2 ) - 5 = 6.00
    6.00 / 10 + 1 = 1.600
    1.60 ^ 1.2 = 1.76 (rounded off to two digits)
Total OBV (Subtotal * Offensive Speed Factor (1.76))                      819.28


Total Battle Value (DBV + OBV, round off)                                  1,553

The record sheet says 1557, but I get 1553. The discrepancy between the MUL and the sheet is perhaps using a previous sheet, or an incorrect MM file (MM shows 1517, but the armor is incorrect).

edit
Fixed a number, oops. Like, the most important number. Smooth!
/edit
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 06 April 2016, 22:24:36
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1197/gladiator-keller

According to RS3075u-AoW, page 100, this should be called the GLD-1R Gladiator (Keller).

Also, the BV should be 1153
The record sheet says 1557, but I get 1553. The discrepancy between the MUL and the sheet is perhaps using a previous sheet, or an incorrect MM file (MM shows 1517, but the armor is incorrect).
1,553 is correct, entry updated. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Stinger on 07 April 2016, 06:51:55
Legionnaire 2D (And other variants) are using the art from 2X1 Muse Fire variant.

Should be using the art from TRO: 3075

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1863/legionnaire-lgn-2d
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 07 April 2016, 10:38:32
I see that the ASN-21 has IF0* and the ASN-101 doesn't, is there a reason for that?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/127/assassin-asn-21
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/126/assassin-asn-101

?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 07 April 2016, 11:16:50
Legionnaire images fixed. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 07 April 2016, 11:29:39
?

It needs to be changed, it hasn't yet. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 07 April 2016, 12:53:26
dunno if this is an intentional omission or not

the clan Battle Cobra omni has a <base> entry. The ComStar-adapted IS BTL-C-2O chassis does not.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 07 April 2016, 13:01:05
RFL-3N Rifleman "Legend Killer"
RFL-3N Rifleman "Legend Killer 2"
RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II "Legend Killer"

whose RS are  on pages 117-119 of the 3055U RS Print book are missing from the MUL
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 19 April 2016, 21:48:12
The MUL currently prints built forces with BVs in the force list, but no PVs.  Could we please have the force PV total back on the first page?  It was incredibly helpful. O:-)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 21 April 2016, 21:37:55
When searching for the sub unit 'LAM', only the following units show up

Pwwka
Yurei
Waneta
Screamer

the Wasp, Stinger, and Shadow Hawk LAMs do no appear.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 21 April 2016, 22:04:55
Uncheck the only show units with BV
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 21 April 2016, 22:38:44
Uncheck the only show units with BV

wow. nice work by me. sorry about that
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 24 April 2016, 17:23:44
The Mad Cat Mk II 4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6850/mad-cat-mk-ii-4) has a Light Active Probe on its record sheet, but the MUL card lacks both LRPB and RCN.  Recommend adding LPRB and RCN to the card, and recalculating PV as necessary.


Xotl: Done.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 25 April 2016, 14:42:47
The the Hi-Scout carrier has a drone bay to carry the drones before launching them into battle. It has the bay listed on it's card, but the drones do not have the cargo ability that allows them to technically be carried.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1530/hi-scout-drone-napfind

Needs CAR2

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1531/hi-scout-drone-pathtrak

Needs CAR3
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 25 April 2016, 15:27:29
DCC (Drone Carrier) can carry units with DRO (Drones).  CAR is for Infantry, to be carried with IT (infantry transport).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 26 April 2016, 13:57:42
Conventional SRM infantry are able to equip inferno munitions (TW Pg. 42).

Should they gain the HT special? Or should they have the SRM special?

And I still think conventional infantry needs art.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 April 2016, 18:51:04
Found a couple of issues with the AlphaStrike conversion of the Hellbringer (Loki)... possibly a discrepancy that wasn't "recomputed" from the recent errata regarding Heat Modified Damage (posted Here (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=40232.msg1117187#msg1117187))

Hellbringer (Loki) Prime (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1929/loki-hellbringer-prime):
OVL should be omitted (based on the following:)
Long Range Damage should be "4"
. Unmodified Base Damage = 3.3
. . 2x ERPPC = 3.0 damage
. . . x1.1 Targeting Computer = 3.3 Unmodified Base Damage
. Total Heat @ Long Range = 33
. . Weapon Heat = 30, AMS Heat = 1, Engine Heat = 2;
. 3.3 x 26 (DHS) / (33-4) = 29.5862
. . 3.3 - 2.95 = 0.341 ~ less than 1 -->  Use Unmodified Base Damage, round normal (Up)
PV should be adjusted accordingly (decrease in OVL cost, increase in Long Range Damage = roughly 41 PV)
Role: Currently "Striker" though I Recommend changing to "Sniper" due to damage profile and Defensive Equipment (ECM, AMS)

Hellbringer [Loki] A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1923/loki-hellbringer-a):
Long Range Damage should = 4
. 3.65 = Unmodified Base Damage @Long
. . 1x UAC5 (100% damage) = 0.75 damage, 2 Heat
. . 2x ERLarge = 2.0 damage, 24 Heat
. . 1x LRM20 (75% damage) = 0.9 damage, 6 Heat
. Total Heat @ Long Range = 34
. . Weapon Heat = 32, Engine Heat = 2
. 3.65 x 26 DHS / (34 - 4) = 3.1633
. . 3.65 - 3.163. = 0.48667 ~ less than 1 --> use Unmodified Base Damage, round normal (up)

Hellbringer (Loki) [E] (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1927/loki-hellbringer-e):
OVL should be omitted (based on the following:)
**ALL** Range Damage Values should be "4"
. Unmodified Base Damage = 3.8
. . HAG20 = 4 heat, 1.328/1.2/1.2
. . 2x ERLarge = 24 heat, 2.0/2.0/2.0
. . LRM10 = 4 heat, 0.6/0.6/0.6; IF1
. Total Heat @ Each Range = 39
. . Weapon Heat = 34, Jump Heat = 3 (minimum);
. 3.8 x 26 (DHS) / (39-4) = 2.9939
. . 3.8 - 2.9939 = 0.80606 ~ less than 1 -->  Use Unmodified Base Damage, round normal (Up)
PV should be adjust accordingly (I have around 36 PV)

Other variants may require attention.  These few were just what I've done to confirm a pattern. (sorry in advance for the headache)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 April 2016, 18:55:35
You round before doing the check for 1.  Without hear, the long range would be 4.  With heat, it would be 3.  Thus it gets OVL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 April 2016, 19:24:46
You round before doing the check for 1.  Without hear, the long range would be 4.  With heat, it would be 3.  Thus it gets OVL.

...That's not how I've been reading the errata.  Rounding has been done after determining final modified damage values, and the difference between the two values must exceed "1" in order to receive an Overheat Value [at any range].  Otherwise, no Overheat?

Plus-- the "Hellbringer (Loki) Prime" should not be getting an OVL value of 3 ...it only hits with the 2 ERPPCs at that range.  Max Damage at Long should be 4, and not 5.
***EDIT***(It *should* have an OV3 from its other weapon systems at Short and Medium Ranges; just not a different value and bonus damage at Long Range)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 April 2016, 19:41:31
I wrote the rule, so I know the intent.  If you think there's a better way to word it, I'm open to exceptions.  But as for the intent, I'm certain on that one.

OV is a single value.  It's based on medium range.  If a unit has OVL, it uses the OV value as calculated by the medium range.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 April 2016, 20:12:50
I wrote the rule, so I know the intent.  If you think there's a better way to word it, I'm open to exceptions.  But as for the intent, I'm certain on that one.

OV is a single value.  It's based on medium range.  If a unit has OVL, it uses the OV value as calculated by the medium range.

I apologize in advance if you felt offended - it was not my intent (nor will it ever be).

I believe the initial calculation on the MUL was done pre-errata as indicated, and that, now that we are calculating Long-Range Overheat differently and separately, the errata takes precedence and the values on the MUL should be changed.  (reasons posted in my initial post upthread).

As for how *I* would reword/calculate for Modified Heat? ...Where is the best place to post this (I know this is not the thread)  **edit: figured it out**
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 April 2016, 20:31:34
The stats are post errata.  Without heat, it would do 4 damage at long range.  With heat, it does 3.  This it gets long range 3 and OVL.  There is no OVL value.  There is only an OV.  It's calculated at medium range.  OV is 3.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 27 April 2016, 21:34:17
GoldBishop:  The part where you check for missing damage happens after all rounding.

Without heat: 4 damage at long range.
With heat: 3 damage at long range.

There is a difference between those numbers, therefore the unit gets OVL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 April 2016, 21:37:20
Currently, the Long Range value of my focus (Hellbringer-Prime)is "2"... which is 2 points below the potential/maximum damage value we have both just calculated (as "4")

Regardless of how we reached our values, with OV3 coming from Medium range affecting the OVL, the unit card is still sporting the wrong value:
Long Range: 2, +3 OV = 5 potential max damage.

The Hellbringer-Prime needs to be updated.  The question is: how?  I'll PM you my Heat Calc info instead of hashing things out here.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 April 2016, 21:50:30
I understand what your issue is, but the way you want it to work is not how it works, and not something I (or anybody else on the MUL team) can change.  OV is a single value based on medium range.  The long range damage values don't affect the OV value.  The decision was made that OV would be a single value, and the Hellbringer being able to get OV3 at long range with its OVL was deemed acceptable collateral damage. 
Your welcome to propose/discuss other opinions or house rules elsewhere in the forums, but this isn't a MUL issue.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 April 2016, 21:51:43
GoldBishop:  The part where you check for missing damage happens after all rounding.

Without heat: 4 damage at long range.
With heat: 3 damage at long range.

There is a difference between those numbers, therefore the unit gets OVL.

See, that's just it.  If I'm reading the Errata(s) right, there is No Rounding until the values are compared/attained.
Therefore, I get the following...
. Without Heat: Unmodified Damage = 3.3   [Do Not Round]
. With Heat: Modified Damage = 2.985  [Do Not Round]
. Difference = 0.314, which is < 1  [Disqualified from OVL]
. Long Range Damage = UnmodifiedDamage (Round Up), or 3.3 ~ 4

What makes the most sense to me is that "rounding" comes when determining final values... .  I'm really not trying to stir the pot here, guys... but there's no way my Loki Prime deals 5 damage at Long. 

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 27 April 2016, 21:53:10
See, that's just it.  If I'm reading the Errata(s) right

You're not.  nckestrel wrote it and has already said that in this thread.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 April 2016, 22:00:31
I'm taking it to PM.  Sorry for the fuss, fellas.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 27 April 2016, 22:10:38
I'm taking it to PM.  Sorry for the fuss, fellas.

Please don't.  It's my responsibility to ensure that errata is readily understood by readers.  If it's unclear, it needs to be clarified, regardless of original intent.

I'll take a look at the wording and see if we can sharpen it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 April 2016, 22:29:16
As Xotl said, no need to apologize.  We're just trying to clarify where the issue is.  It's not the Hellbringer, it's as intended.  If the wording of the OVL calculation isn't clear enough, that can be worked on.  (The conversion process is a pain to keep everything clear).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 28 April 2016, 00:13:29
I don't like stepping on toes - and it seemed like I was doing that (with the defensive posts countering and counter-countering).  I have full confidence we're all on the same side of trying to find balance and fairness.  I'm also seeing that this discussion doesn't belong on the errata thread, respectfully.
...

After writing a heap (still pending), I think I might have found something... so, please... forgive me for the long post

I have NOT been Rounding the "initial Unmodified Damage" 
I have not seen an instruction to perform such immediate rounding (as of 11pm CST, 27 April 2016). (posting for clarity, not trying to be snide) ...the values I have calculated (and saved) are as raw numbers.

The Errata says to "use the Unmodified Damage value" to find the Heat Modified Value. I believe this is where the errors are popping up on my end.

For my Example: the Hellbringer (Prime) has a Long-Range unmodified damage value of 3.3 (2 ERPPCs = 3.0 damage, x1.1 for Targeting Computer)  Its heat at this range is 33 (30 weapon, 1 AMS, 2 Movement)
With only 13 DHS to dissipate the heat, I have 26 Disp, or a Long Range Heat Modifier = 26/(33-4) or 0.89655~

Currently, the Hellbringer's Unmodified Long Range Damage is "3.3".  I have not rounded this value to 4 because it is not the Final Damage Value (...yet!).

The way it has been explained to me (in the previous posts), I should be Rounding the initial value (3.3), and then multiply the base un-rounded value (3.3) to find the Heat-Modified Value - then take the difference as the Overheat Value (if any):
3.3 -> 4  [new Unmodified Damage]
3.3 x 0.89655 = 2.95862~ (Heat Modified)
4 - 2.95862 = 1.04138
...in my eyes, this is what you guys are telling me.  "Long Range Damage" = 3 , "OVL" = Yes, (1) (for now at Long)

I believe the "error" I'm experiencing... is in clarity of the "un-Rounded"  Shouldn't we be using the same base number when applying the Heat Modifier?
In this example, the difference is a staggering 0.7...

Calculating as explained to me first, with a twist: Rounding all Values immediately, then multiplying and Round again the values at Range by the Heat Modifier:
3.3 -> 4                            [rounding Unmodified Damage Value]
4 x 0.89655 = 3.58262    [Multiplying Rounded Unmodified Damage Value by Heat Modifier]
4 - 3.58262 = 0.41738    [Difference from Unmodified and Modified]
...Since 0.41738 is less than 1, (per the errata)...
   "Long Range Damage" = 4
   "OVL" = "No"

Seems reasonable.  Still dealing 4 damage at long, so no real issue.

Now... if I were to go back to how I was doing it ...without rounding:
3.3 x 0.89655 = 2.95862~       [Unmodified Long Range Damage]
3.3 - 2.95862 = 0.341~           [Difference between the Unmodified and Modified]
...Again, this value is less than 1, (per the errata) so now that the "Unmodified" value becomes the Long Range Damage value, it's time to round up (nearest whole):
  "Long Range Damage" = 3.3 -> 4,
  "OVL = No"


...Granted, I have not tested this method on other units - just the Loki so far - I believe my method provides values "closer" to the feel of their Classic/TotalWarfare counterparts.  The Hellbringer Prime doesn't really overheat that much in Classic, so there's little reason (in my opinion) that it should get to deal a whooping 50 damage in AlphaStrike when it's only capable of 30; leaving it "as is" just felt wrong so I made it my mission to try and fix it. (and yes, this is an opinion.  Sorry.  Again.)

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 April 2016, 05:52:29
Unmodified in the OVL calculation is supposed to be meaning unmodified by heat.  But it should go through the entire rest of the process to come up with a final damage value, then compare to the results with heat modification.
So perhaps "non-heat modified final damage value" and "heat modified final damage value" should be the wording of what we are comparing to check for OVL?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 28 April 2016, 10:51:57
...
So perhaps "non-heat modified final damage value" and "heat modified final damage value" should be the wording of what we are comparing to check for OVL?

No.  "non-heat final damage value", sounds too ...final... to me.

I think it should instead be "Initial Damage Value" (after all, we just finished summing damage at a particular range bracket)

However... shouldn't we wait to round until after we modify for heat?

Otherwise, we are just comparing a rounded (up) value to it's non-rounded value... which seems awfully more abstract than normal.
{in my example above... the difference between 3.3 and 4 is 0.7... which is more than enough to "push" a smaller value over the threshold into Overheat territory}
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 April 2016, 11:00:48
final damage value is after rounding.  That's the point of using that term.  It's final.

Why final?  Because it's the results that matters.  If the hypothetical unit's long range damage is not reduced by heat (the one that it will actually use in the game), then it does not get OVL.  You can't not be penalized by heat and get the OVL.  The only way to know if it's penalized by its heat (at long range), is to do the entire calculation and arrive at the final values for long range, without heat modification and with heat modification.  If there is a difference in what the final value would be, then you get OVL. 

Hellbringer, ignoring heat, would be a 4 at long range.  Hellbringer, with heat, would be a 3.  So it is penalized by its heat, so it gets OVL. Intermediate steps are meaningless, only what the final damage values would be have any meaning. for example, if it were 4.0 without heat and rounding to the final damage value, and 3.1 with heat, that's a 0.9 difference.   It doesn't matter, because the actual result is 4 and 4.  My example, regardless of intermediate steps, does not have it's actual AS stats affected by the heat.  So it can't have OVL.

EDIT: And a reminder, we're trying to figure out how to make the wording more clear on what it is (the current intent), not change it to something else (different intent).  If you want to discuss your opinion on what it should be, that discussion should go elsewhere. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 28 April 2016, 13:00:13
Quote from: AlphaStrike Companion p.115, w/ Errata
Starting at the 3rd paragraph
To begin, find the unit’s maximum heat output. This is the heat generated by firing all weapons, including defensive equipment such as anti-missile systems, and the special-case heat rules described further below. ’Mech units must also add the maximum heat generation possible for their most heat-intensive movement mode. This added movement heat is +2 if the unit is a BattleMech that lacks jump jets, or +1 per 2 inches of jumping Move if the unit is a BattleMech or IndustrialMech that has jump jets (to a minimum of +3 heat for such jumping units). None of the other heat-tracking units covered by these rules (including nonjumping IndustrialMechs) add heat for their movement actions.
   Next, determine the unit’s heat dissipation rate by adding up all of the heat modifiers shown in the Heat Dissipation Table. Note that the heat modifiers for heat sinks and coolant pods are applied for each sink or pod the unit mounts, while the heat modifiers for other special equipment like the partial wing, radical heat sink system, and RISC the emergency coolant system apply only once. For example, a unit with 10 double heat sinks and a coolant pod would have a heat dissipation rate of –21 ([10 double heat sinks x –2] –1 [coolant pod] = –21).

No Rounding indicated.

Quote from: Current errata
**Long-Range Weapons: The above heat-modification process applies to all heat-generating units for attacks made in the Short and Medium range brackets. If the unit can deliver damage at Long range (or better), a separate Long-range heat output must also be calculated. This follows the standard rules for calculating a unit's heat output, except that the only weapons included are those with a Long-range damage value.
     Calculate the unit's Long-range damage value without modifying for heat, and then calculate its Long-range damage value modified using the above Long-range heat output.  If, after all rounding is applied, the heat-modified Long-range damage is lower than the unmodified Long-range damage by at least 1 point, then the unit receives the OVL (Overheat Long) special ability.  This calculation is used solely to check if the unit qualifies for the OVL special ability.  If it does qualify, the unit's actual Long-range damage value is calculated by modifying for heat using the exact same procedure and unit heat output as for the Short and Long range brackets, including weapon heat generated by weapons that cannot reach Long range.
     If the unit does not qualify for OVL, its Long-range damage value is unmodified by heat and the full damage value is used.**
[emphasis added for clarity]

Rounding indicated.

Which one is correct?  and should it apply to ALL ranges (not just Long).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 April 2016, 13:32:04
All OV and OVL checks should be using final values.  As final as final there is.  (I'm being silly, but I'm mocking the complexity of AS conversions and its use of "final" for various steps when its not really final).  The intent is you must do all the work to a final damage value.  You can't stop part way and do the comparison then.
 
p116, Determining Final Damage Values.
This defines what a Final Damage Value is.  It's after the rounding to a whole number. If you don't have a whole number, you don't have a final damage value.  That's why I suggested changing the wording to final damage values, because they have a definition, and it's after rounding.
so p115, starting at 3rd paragraph is talking pre-final damage values.  It doesn't say anything OV.  that's why it doesn't say anything about rounding. That comes later (p116).

the errata for p115 Long-Range Weapons, already specifies after all rounding, for the OVL check.  For OV and OVL checks, you need to have finished the entire calcuation(s).

p116, Calculating Overheat Value
"To find a unit’s Overheat Value, compare its maximum Alpha Strike damage at Medium range before and after it has been adjusted for heat using these rules."
This should also mention final damage values.

And then under that for Long-Range Weapons
"if this same comparison."  and then this would be referencing final damage values as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 28 April 2016, 16:09:59
This discussion makes me wonder whether or not you guys could talk to Rick Raisley about including Alpha Strike stats in his Heavy Metal programs?

The reason I ask is because he did make calculations for Battleforce 2 integral to the software, so the work might already be halfway completed.

Also, yay or nay on SRM infantry being able to carry inferno munitions in AS? If so, how do we note that on the card?

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 28 April 2016, 18:46:54
The MUL Force Builder doesn't seem to be taking into account skill increases.  All of my cards are printing as the default 4, regardless of how I alter the skills in the list.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 05 May 2016, 21:52:44
Scapha "I" Variant

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6667/scapha-hovertank-i
[TRO3145_RotS p.21]

This unit should also have the "TAG" Special (thanks to it's C3M)

However, as this equipment is listed to be mounted in a "Body" location, it should not be added to the turret "TUR" specials.


Xotl: corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 07 May 2016, 15:58:08
First of all I would like to say a big thank you to the MUL guys for publishing the availability lists for TR3145RoTS!

Now for the errata business .

The Quirinius and the Celerity 04-R and 05-X don't have  faction availability
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 07 May 2016, 18:18:06
That is intentional for the moment. They would be Comstar. I'm just trying to avoid break several internal processes until we are closer to having complete data in for the later eras.


Sorry for the inconvenience.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 07 May 2016, 20:07:56
The Galleon 200 (RL) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1180/galleon-light-tank-gal-200-rl) is listed as a Sniper despite doing exactly zero damage at Long range.  And... somehow has TUR1/0*/- despite having a flat 0 (without the star) at Medium.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 07 May 2016, 23:11:58
First of all I would like to say a big thank you to the MUL guys for publishing the availability lists for TR3145RoTS!

This makes me think I should ask, would it be possible for you to post an announcement on the page's news blurb whenever you add a new source to the MUL?

Now that I've gone and printed a card of every variant of every unit I own, I'd like to be informed when new variants are added, so that I can keep my cards current.

It would also help us errata checkers to know when there are a fresh bunch of files to go over.

Thanks

P.S. Still wondering about those inferno SRM infantry for AS.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 08 May 2016, 10:59:51
That depends upon what you want. Units get added in different stages. Lately I have been adding the base info when I finally get the book. Someone else has been doing the AS stats sometime later.

When we do faction data for a new era, we will make a big announcement. Minor updates for faction data probably aren't worth filling the new feed that the important stuff gets lost in a wall of words.

Wouldn't inferno infantry just be srm infantry that use alternative ammo?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 08 May 2016, 11:03:20
Wouldn't inferno infantry just be srm infantry that use alternative ammo?

No SRM special on SRM infantry :(
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 08 May 2016, 11:08:49
I guess it didn't make the threshold which means heat probably wouldn't make it either.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 08 May 2016, 11:18:10
I suppose you could create custom cards and give the HT1/1 ability.  Flamer infantry got the HT special afterall in the conversion process.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 08 May 2016, 15:49:01
That depends upon what you want. Units get added in different stages. Lately I have been adding the base info when I finally get the book. Someone else has been doing the AS stats sometime later.

What I would want would be once all the units from a new source are added, say Operational Turning Points: Alshain or Record Sheets 3175: Ununabridged, a simple notice is put up on the news blurb so that we see it when we go to the front page.

That way we can go to the "sources" tab, look at the units, and make cards or point out corrections.

And if the SRM infantry can do 1 damage, shouldn't they be able to do 1 HT? Doesn't make much sense otherwise.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 08 May 2016, 16:08:19
In Alpha Strike, the infantry do not use any alternative munitions, there's no exception given for Infernos and SRM infantry. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 08 May 2016, 22:51:26
The Galleon 200 (RL) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1180/galleon-light-tank-gal-200-rl) is listed as a Sniper despite doing exactly zero damage at Long range.  And... somehow has TUR1/0*/- despite having a flat 0 (without the star) at Medium.

I went through a did the weapon conversions on this one.  I came up with a damage profile of 1/0*/0*.  I also found out that the Companion does not have an entry for the Rocket Launcher (PP) found on the Galleon in question.  However, even if it does modify the damage values, none of the final values would change (they ended up being 0.88/0.48/0.24 before rounding).  The TUR values should not change.

Due to the nature of the weapon system in question and the vehicle mounting them, I suggest changing the role to "Brawler", and raising the PV by 3 points to accompany the change from 0 to 0* on the Medium and Long range entries.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 09 May 2016, 10:43:40
There was an issue when RS: Operation Klondike was entered where we couldn't set 0* as a damage value.  I just went through and edited a bunch of the combat vees and lighter 'mechs from that book to add the 0*s back.  PVs for those were also updated.
GAL-200 (RL) was set to Scout.
Griffin 2N (and 2N2) was set to Skirmisher.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 09 May 2016, 12:15:28
That is intentional for the moment. They would be Comstar. I'm just trying to avoid break several internal processes until we are closer to having complete data in for the later eras.


Sorry for the inconvenience.

Thank you for the answer but what about the Quirinius?
Unlike the Celerity it has no connection to Comstar and we can readily infer it's faction availability from the text:
"It was produced on Terra and found ready markets
in the former Free Worlds League territories.
Many mercenaries of the early thirty-second
century also accept Quirinus suits in lieu of
payment from its many users."
I guess it means Republic, former FWL states and mercenaries
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 09 May 2016, 15:21:58
Hmm. I seemed to have missed those. Repub, merc, and three of the fwl states. I'll get them in tonight. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 09 May 2016, 21:29:52
The Wolverine-7K  (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3575/wolverine-wvr-7k) doesn't have the Draconis Combine on its availability list.  The lore in TRO:3050 places this model's production at Marduk. It'd be rather strange, IMO, that the mech be built solely for export.

Is the availability for that model in the MUL in error, or correct?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 10 May 2016, 13:08:40
Phalanx D lists availability as former FWL. According to RS:3145NTNU "This support variant is immensely popular
in Republic forces, and is even surfacing in Oriente infantry formations."
I believe that the Republic of the Sphere should be added to the faction availability.

Spider 10K is listed as a RotS design but the ballistic reinforced and K designation make me believe it's a Kuritan design (and the design uses  RE lasers that the DC began salvaging as with the Nyx 110)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 10 May 2016, 19:30:16
Phalanx D and Spider 10K fixed. Data entry issue on my end. Sorry about that.

Wolverine 7K we will discuss internally. It wouldn't be the first mech to be made solely for export and it has been sans Kurita for a long time. We'll see what our internal discussion yields.

Edit: Wolverine is DC for clan invasion and civil war eras. The remainders were all converted by the Jihad.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 11 May 2016, 00:44:58
There are some entries that I can't be sure but I believe might be in error:
Vedette V9 is listed as Hell Horse, Wolf and Jade Falcon design but should be Lyran.
The reasoning is that it's an IS tech design and that the V7 is a Lyran design (used by the LC FS RotS). The text implies
that this design is a successor to the V7 "While swapping its bombast laser for a Gauss rifle
increased range and effectiveness,".

griffin 6S2 is listed as a LC and DC design but I think  FS should be added (perhaps instead of DC)
This design seems to be a modification of the Griffin 6S which was produced by the FS and LC, Unlike the DC which had produced the 1DS and later the  5K. Also this
mech uses a boosted C3 slave which seems to be rather common in FS designs of this era.

Gallant 10-0 should be added to the FS. This mech uses RE lasers that were debuted by the FS in 3130 and the mech was introduced in 3130.
Also the FS produces the chassis (along with the LC and the RotS). It's possible the technology has spread pretty quickly but it seems to me a bit odd

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 May 2016, 07:10:46
We'll take a look.

The key to the vedette is when arcturus fell to the wolves and if there was enough time to build up a sizeable quantity before production switched to the clans.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 11 May 2016, 12:04:43
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/mul-images/BattleMechs/Scorpion.jpg

Is blank?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 May 2016, 12:43:39
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/mul-images/BattleMechs/Scorpion.jpg

Is blank?

Case sensitivity....the Scorpions should be all fixed now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 May 2016, 21:23:22
Hussar2: fixed with some light tweaking.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 11 May 2016, 21:26:11
The Galleon 102, 103, and 104 do not have images.  They should use the image found in TRO3058U and RS3058Uu-I.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 May 2016, 21:38:09
Fixed. Sadly it only needed the extension to be changed from jpg to JPG. I hate to think how many other case sensitive issues we have.

Thanks for pointing it out.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 12 May 2016, 21:00:09
Looks like the Defiance DFN-3S has the same problem, though the DFN-3C and -3T are okay. Also, the three Defiance models have FLK0/0/1; is that correct? They can only make special FLK attacks at L range?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 12 May 2016, 21:01:47
That sounds like it might be a heat and/or minimum range issue, though it's... bizarre, to say the least, that they don't even get 0*.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 12 May 2016, 21:03:09
That sounds like it might be a heat and/or minimum range issue, though it's... bizarre, to say the least, that they don't even get 0*.

I can't get at my books to check right now, so that's why I'm dumping it in your lap. Enjoy!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 12 May 2016, 21:18:42
I can't get at my books to check right now, so that's why I'm dumping it in your lap. Enjoy!

I think that it's because FLK damage is dealt even on a standard attack if conditions are met, and subject to OV.  The normal LB-10X damage of 0.6 is reduced by heat to 0.3 (24 dissipation, 52 maximum heat).  It's possible that the conversion to 0* was simply missed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 13 May 2016, 14:47:59
I've been haunting this thread for awhile, ever since I printed up my AS cards, and the reason was that this is the only place I know of that I can find info on any changes made to the AS cards.

So rather than keep doing that (not that you guys aren't great) but I now know what I want for the MUL site.

An AS card change log.

I would like one of the tabs at the top of the page to be a list of whenever a card for AS has been updated in any way.

I'm not talking about things like fixing broken pictures, but I am talking about whenever a card is added or has anything updated or corrected.

I have almost 2000 AS cards printed now and I would like to be able to have an easy reference point for keeping them current.

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 21 May 2016, 09:45:09
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/590/chippewa-iic-standard

Image displayed for the Chippewa IIC is that of the Chippewa. Replace with correct image from Era Digest: Golden Century.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pheonixstorm on 27 May 2016, 00:34:55
Kanga Medium Hovertank (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1745/kanga-medium-hovertank-standard) should show 12"j on its AS card not 8"j

Per TRO 3050u (also on its RS) the TW movement for the Kanga is 8/12/6
Unless I missed something anyway...


Xotl: corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Question on 27 May 2016, 03:38:09
the Gnome BA is listed as being produced in 3056 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1216/), yet it's advanced SRM-2 launcher isn't available till 3058, making the unit illegal...does this need an errata to the dates?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pheonixstorm on 27 May 2016, 04:25:33
Its possible the intro for the srm has changed in errata or in IO. There were a lot of intro date changes in IO such as the Long Tom artillery. Do you have a copy of IO to double check that date?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 27 May 2016, 04:31:46
Not that I could find.

Edit: I checked the original source for the Gnome BA, Field Manual: Crusader Clans. That was back when battle armor was still being constructed by fiat, rather than a unified design system, and many suits included some piece of original equipment. Anyway, the FM says 3056 for the introduction of the Gnome with its special missile launcher. The MUL is correct, and errata should be issued for TechManual or anywhere else the Advanced SRM is listed as being introduced in 3058.

...I mean, that's my opinion from what I could find on the subject. I can't make the ruling, I'm not a MUL member or developer. :-[
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 29 May 2016, 23:04:18
Both Foot Ballistic Rifle Hastati V, 513th Infantry Regiment (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1141/foot-ballistic-rifle-hastati-v-513th-infantry-regiment) and Motorized MG Galatean Support Wheels (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2234/motorized-mg-galatean-support-wheels) are missing an AS card.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jymset on 30 May 2016, 00:48:00
Not that I could find.

Edit: I checked the original source for the Gnome BA, Field Manual: Crusader Clans. That was back when battle armor was still being constructed by fiat, rather than a unified design system, and many suits included some piece of original equipment. Anyway, the FM says 3056 for the introduction of the Gnome with its special missile launcher. The MUL is correct, and errata should be issued for TechManual or anywhere else the Advanced SRM is listed as being introduced in 3058.

...I mean, that's my opinion from what I could find on the subject. I can't make the ruling, I'm not a MUL member or developer. :-[

I, for one, am in full agreement. O0
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: RoundTop on 30 May 2016, 14:42:07
Case sensitivity on MUL is likely due to running Apache for the back-end. by default it uses the unix model of case sensitivity.

add this to httpd.conf to turn on case insensitivity (if that is the problem). Note: you must have the mod_speling module already, but it is included by default with apache.

<IfModule mod_speling.c>
CheckSpelling On
CheckCaseOnly On
</IfModule>
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Jim1701 on 31 May 2016, 02:06:02
I'd like to make an enhancement request.  I'd like to have the ability to export the results of a filtered unit search to a file in .csv format or something similar.  When I'm doing force building I'm not always online.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Jim1701 on 31 May 2016, 02:15:13
The HPPC and LRM variants of the Brutus Assault tank appear to have incorrect values for their TUR special on their AS cards. 

The Brutus Assault Tank (LRM) has a turret value of TUR(2/3/2) and should be (if I'm doing this right) of TUR(2/3/3).  The unit has 2 x LRM 20 in the turret each with more than 10 rounds of ammo.

The Brutus Assault Tank (HPPC) has a turret value of TUR(2/2/2) and should be TUR(2/3/3).  The unit has 1 x LRM 20 with more than 10 rounds of ammo and 1 x HPPC in the turret.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 31 May 2016, 06:36:54
I'd like to make an enhancement request.  I'd like to have the ability to export the results of a filtered unit search to a file in .csv format or something similar.

Copy - paste works. Just remember to grab the header so it brings along the columns. I do a fair amount of work that way.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 05 June 2016, 12:59:48
The Saroyan Jump Bomber's role seems wrong. http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6472/saroyan-jump-bomber-standard
It is listed as Fast Dogfighter, but given the unit's capabilities (well, lack of them), it doesn't seem fitting. Attack Fighter (despite its speed criteria being far lower) or Fire Support would be more fitting for its role as pure ground-attack aircraft.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pakishi on 11 June 2016, 18:44:23
MUL, AS Force Builder, and permission to print.

I print all my stuff at my local office depot, which I encounter no issues, but a friend is getting his AS Force Builder printouts rejected by the store manager since it does't have a permission to reproduce for personal use labelled on it.

Is there something he can point to to get past this issue?

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pheonixstorm on 11 June 2016, 20:39:30
Baleena Passenger Submarine (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3778/baleena-passenger-submarine-standard) listed as 0 tons, should be 200 tons
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 June 2016, 21:33:14
Baleena Passenger Submarine (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3778/baleena-passenger-submarine-standard) listed as 0 tons, should be 200 tons
Fixed. It was entered as 0.2 tons for some reason.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 14 June 2016, 18:46:35
It seems Loki Mk II has wrong structure value for its AS cards. Both Ebon Jaguar and Hellbringer have 4 but Loki II has only 3, even though they're all same weight and use Clan XL engine, and there should not be anything else that reduces the value in Loki II.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6277/loki-mk-ii-prime
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6278/loki-mk-ii-a
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6279/loki-mk-ii-b


Xotl: corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 19 June 2016, 22:33:53
I was looking at the entry for the Tiger T-12 and availability has it as extinct yet the written description suggests that it was put into limited production across the IS during the succession wars?

Which is correct?

Regards

Mutantsix
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: 00Dawg on 25 June 2016, 11:55:08
Marauder II, specifically the MAD-5A

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2059/marauder-ii-mad-5a (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2059/marauder-ii-mad-5a)

It's on the FedCom RAT in Era Report 3052 and Era Report 3062, so it looks like availability needs to be adjusted.
The fluff in the original TRO:3050 clearly indicates sales to at least one merc unit as well.

I'm not sure if the 5B or 5C models might be impacted.

ETA:  It's in the FM: Mercs RAT as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 25 June 2016, 12:07:27
Marauder II, specifically the MAD-5A

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2059/marauder-ii-mad-5a (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2059/marauder-ii-mad-5a)

It's on the FedCom RAT in Era Report 3052 and Era Report 3062, so it looks like availability needs to be adjusted.

That might be more of an error in the RATs, unless wider distribution was deliberately intended.

Quote
The fluff in the original TRO:3050 clearly indicates sales to at least one merc unit as well.

That would be covered by the newer Common Allies/Enemies rules in Combat Manual: Mercenaries; custom units can pay points to have the Dragoons as an Ally, giving them access to Dragoons-specific machines. The MUL takes into account that handfuls of specific units may be found outside of their original factions, but unless it's a substantial number or results in new variants, then the capturing faction is not listed. Otherwise, given how widely 'Mechs end up distributed (at least in tiny numbers), listing factions at all would be pointless.

For a very specific example, look at the Capellan Death Commandos. They have the special rule that they can use any Inner Sphere 'Mech, from any faction, by choice. Does that mean that every 'Mech should have "Liao" as a listed faction?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 27 June 2016, 01:21:48
Reporting a problem with the MUL:

When you hit the button to download a created force, the compiled .pdf does not include the last skill toggle you made unless it was not the last thing you did prior to hitting the download button.

In other words, if the last unit you add to your force is not a skill 4, the only way to make it show up as the skill you want on the compiled .pdf is to then add and remove a pointless extra unit before compiling.

EDIT: messing around with it further has revealed that it is ignoring ALL skill toggles after the last unit that was added or removed.  If you add every unit in your list, and then go in and put in all the skills, the pdf will still print everyone at skill 4 if you don't add and remove another unit just before compiling.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Frabby on 03 July 2016, 03:36:23
Problem/Question: The BLR-1C BattleMaster is mentioned in canon but does not show up in the MUL.

Explicitly named the BLR-1C twice, it features in the novel Heir to the Dragon as Theodore Kurita's ComStar-supplied command 'Mech in chapters 52 and 65, FASA edition pp. 251-251 & 306-311= Roc edition pp. 287-289 & 346-351.
It is explicitly said this 'Mech came unmodified and without downgrades, i.e. the one in the novel is a factory model in original configuration. In battle it is described to use one (implicitly single) arm-mounted Donal PPC, a Holly SRM-6 launcher, DHS, paired rear-defense lasers, and it explicitly does not have machine guns.

The BLR-2C may have been meant to be this 'Mech, but it bears a wrong alphanumerical designation (and its AMS and BAP aren't mentioned in the novel).

There is a BLR-1Gc variant with a "double cockpit" mentioned in TRO:3075 that seems to be identical to the BLR-1C as described in the novel, and Sarna posits these may be the same model.

Any new insights? I was looking for the BLR-1C's intro date for a story when I found this problem.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 03 July 2016, 09:27:52
We'll look at it, but Ask The Writers or (in this case) Ask the Lead Devs might give you a better chance at getting answers than here.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: JadedFalcon on 10 July 2016, 20:09:05
Reporting a problem with the MUL:

When you hit the button to download a created force, the compiled .pdf does not include the last skill toggle you made unless it was not the last thing you did prior to hitting the download button.

In other words, if the last unit you add to your force is not a skill 4, the only way to make it show up as the skill you want on the compiled .pdf is to then add and remove a pointless extra unit before compiling.

EDIT: messing around with it further has revealed that it is ignoring ALL skill toggles after the last unit that was added or removed.  If you add every unit in your list, and then go in and put in all the skills, the pdf will still print everyone at skill 4 if you don't add and remove another unit just before compiling.

Is this with or without clicking the Save button prior to clicking Print PDF? Using the Save button before exporting the PDF seems to prevent a number of issues. (At least when I've tried it.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 18 July 2016, 11:26:30
We now have rules in Campaign Operations for having large spacecraft in your forces, and availability rolls that rely on cost and number of docking collars.  Is there any chance we could have c-bill costs for dropships and jumpships (and dropship collars for jumpships in the notes?) prioritized for the MUL?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 20 July 2016, 00:42:11
The Tengu C3i currently has a minimum Short-range damage value.  It has no weapons: am I missing something, or should it have a 0 for damage?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 20 July 2016, 05:08:07
It can still carry an infantry rifle.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 21 July 2016, 15:01:28
The Aquila ASF (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6518/aquila-aqa-1m) lacks any URL that my computer is capable of displaying.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 21 July 2016, 21:51:15
Could you provide some more details? The link you posted works fine for me on both computers and mobiles. I did fix the image not appearing.

Does this link also not work?
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6518
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 22 July 2016, 16:09:34
I typed URL and meant image.  Not entirely sure what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 22 July 2016, 19:41:19
The image was fixed when I was poking around.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 28 July 2016, 11:38:27
Ares Medium Tank (Standard) - http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/109/ares-medium-tank-standard
Ares Medium Tank (Plasma)  - http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/108/ares-medium-tank-plasma

Both have Type "BM"... should be "CV"

I noticed this when I went to mark off Motive crits and it had the wrong boxes to check.  (I'm assuming fixing BM to CV will also rectify the Crit table on the card)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 July 2016, 11:41:18
Thanks, fixed the Ares.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 01 August 2016, 18:08:17
All variants of the Buster HaulerMech (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7220/buster-bc-xxi-haulermech) were given artwork in Record Sheets: Vehicle Annex, IndustrialMechs & Exoskeletons that is different from the Powerman HaulerMech. See attached.

I believe the Buster XXI (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3882/buster-xxi-haulermech) and Buster BC XXI (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7220/buster-bc-xxi-haulermech) refer to the same machine. Suggest deleting Buster XXI as it does not contain the reference to the RS book, nor much other information.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Jim1701 on 03 August 2016, 00:31:06
Bump.

The HPPC and LRM variants of the Brutus Assault tank appear to have incorrect values for their TUR special on their AS cards. 

The Brutus Assault Tank (LRM) has a turret value of TUR(2/3/2) and should be (if I'm doing this right) of TUR(2/3/3).  The unit has 2 x LRM 20 in the turret each with more than 10 rounds of ammo.

The Brutus Assault Tank (HPPC) has a turret value of TUR(2/2/2) and should be TUR(2/3/3).  The unit has 1 x LRM 20 with more than 10 rounds of ammo and 1 x HPPC in the turret.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Greyhind on 06 August 2016, 09:08:39
I like and use the BV Piloting/Gunnery charts but if I could request a feature, would it be possible to label the two axis as piloting and gunnery? At the moment they're useful but not user-friendly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 August 2016, 17:12:14
I like and use the BV Piloting/Gunnery charts but if I could request a feature, would it be possible to label the two axis as piloting and gunnery? At the moment they're useful but not user-friendly.

agreed, i forget which axis is which every time i reference the chart.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 08 August 2016, 18:34:10
I added it to the to do list. I'm not sure when it will be worked on.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 09 August 2016, 07:24:32
Brutus HPPC and LRM fixed, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 August 2016, 07:25:55
I added it to the to do list. I'm not sure when it will be worked on.

cool, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 10 August 2016, 16:41:40
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6636/sternensturm-stm-o-base
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6637/sternensturm-stm-o
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6638/sternensturm-stm-oa
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6639/sternensturm-stm-ob

All of these have unit types of "Aerospace-Aerospace Fighter" when they should have "Aerospace-OmniFighter"
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 10 August 2016, 17:12:22
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6636/sternensturm-stm-o-base
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6637/sternensturm-stm-o
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6638/sternensturm-stm-oa
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6639/sternensturm-stm-ob

All of these have unit types of "Aerospace-Aerospace Fighter" when they should have "Aerospace-OmniFighter"


I tried to update the first two and I received the following errors (the first for the base mode, the second for the -o):

Exception Details: System.Web.HttpRequestValidationException: A potentially dangerous Request.Form value was detected from the client (Model="STM-O <Base>").

Exception Details: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 10 August 2016, 18:12:28
Woohoo! Broke the MUL! :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 10 August 2016, 20:17:16
Woohoo! Broke the MUL! :)

Do you feel like a hero now?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 10 August 2016, 20:48:10
They are all changed to omnifighter. You successfully changed the first two. I did the last two.

Xtol: the error was for the log file.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: wantec on 11 August 2016, 07:15:17
The Ares superheavy 'Mechs are missing the OMNI special.


Also, if I do a search for units with the OMNI AS ability I get 747 'Mechs, but if I do a search adding the "OmniMech" subtype I only get 720 units. I know the Omni QuadVees don't show up under the OmniMech subtype, but that's only 9 'Mechs. I'm not sure which are the rest. And neither search returns the Ares SH Omnis.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: OpacusVenatori on 11 August 2016, 08:17:47
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6440/shun-transport-vtol-standard

The shun transport vtol (From tro 3145 cap conf) doesn't have the STL special. It mounts stealth armor.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 August 2016, 09:48:02
Wantec:
I see the units in question. I'll get them updated. It also looks like the Notos C is lacking the omni special.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 August 2016, 10:08:43
Ares, Notos C, and all BattleMechs with OMNI special but not with OmniMech subtype have been fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Dohon on 12 August 2016, 06:55:38
I don't know if this is the appropriate thread to ask, but, when will the new artwork for the Wolverine be added for the relevant MUL entries?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 12 August 2016, 21:40:48
Zeus ZEU-9S2 seems to have REAR 1/1/- ability in its AS card even though the 'Mech does not have any rear-facing weapons.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5459/zeus-zeu-9s2
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/5459?skill=4


On the other hand, Zeus ZEU-9S seems to be missing REAR 1/1/- ability. I believe single rear-mounted Medium Pulse Laser is enough for that.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3644/zeus-zeu-9s
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/3644?skill=4
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 13 August 2016, 17:38:32
The Highlander HGN-694 is lacking introduction date but has availability for Civil War Era.
Probably should have introduction date of 3062 or 3063, considering the 'Mech is available in MechWarrior IV and other 'Mechs based on that game have similar or earlier introduction dates.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5493/highlander-hgn-694
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 13 August 2016, 23:59:34
Fast Recon Cavalry Point, 67th Battlemech Cluster, Iota Galaxy (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1035/fast-recon-cavalry-point-67th-battlemech-cluster-iota-galaxy) 
...shows up in most Clan searches for infantry, has the word "Recon" in it... yet... their role is listed as "Ambusher".

Based on the role assignment found in the Companion, shouldn't they labeled either Scouts or Strikers?
They meet the speed, armor, and damage qualifiers (p.135-136), so I'm not sure if this is in error (needing update?) or that all Conventional Infantry units are forced to be "Ambusher" by default?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 August 2016, 15:43:52
Fast Recon Cavalry Point, 67th Battlemech Cluster, Iota Galaxy (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1035/fast-recon-cavalry-point-67th-battlemech-cluster-iota-galaxy) 
...shows up in most Clan searches for infantry, has the word "Recon" in it... yet... their role is listed as "Ambusher".

Based on the role assignment found in the Companion, shouldn't they labeled either Scouts or Strikers?
They meet the speed, armor, and damage qualifiers (p.135-136), so I'm not sure if this is in error (needing update?) or that all Conventional Infantry units are forced to be "Ambusher" by default?

Thanks, went through a bunch of MV10" listed as Ambushers and changed them (mostly to Strikers, some Scouts).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 14 August 2016, 18:28:45
Record sheet source for the Wolfhound IIC "Grinner" (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3570/) is listed as Record Sheets: 3050 Upgrade Unabridged, Clan and Star League.  Should be Record Sheets: 3050 Upgrade Unabridged, Inner Sphere.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 14 August 2016, 19:34:11
Thanks, went through a bunch of MV10" listed as Ambushers and changed them (mostly to Strikers, some Scouts).

Aww, you didn't upgrade the IS recon infantry (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2673/recon-infantry-recon-battalion-201st-pesht-assault-team-3rd-proserpina-hussars) even tho they have the 10" move.  With a short range damage value of 0* I'm not sure how they were ever classified as ambushers in the first place ;)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 14 August 2016, 20:53:15
Record sheet source for the Wolfhound IIC "Grinner" (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3570/) is listed as Record Sheets: 3050 Upgrade Unabridged, Clan and Star League.  Should be Record Sheets: 3050 Upgrade Unabridged, Inner Sphere.
Fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 August 2016, 20:56:19
Aww, you didn't upgrade the IS recon infantry (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2673/recon-infantry-recon-battalion-201st-pesht-assault-team-3rd-proserpina-hussars) even tho they have the 10" move.  With a short range damage value of 0* I'm not sure how they were ever classified as ambushers in the first place ;)

Ambushers just need to be slow and short range (and low armor).  They don't need to do lots of damage.
But yeah, the Recon infantry should be Scouts, I thought I had gotten them already..and clearly hadn't.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Taurianspy on 18 August 2016, 07:35:59
Is there a problem with the master unit list?


Server Error in '/' Application.

The cast to value type 'Int32' failed because the materialized value is null. Either the result type's generic parameter or the query must use a nullable type.
  Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

 Exception Details: System.InvalidOperationException: The cast to value type 'Int32' failed because the materialized value is null. Either the result type's generic parameter or the query must use a nullable type.

Source Error:



Line 258:   <div class="col-sm-8 col-lg-10">
Line 259:
Line 260:      @if (Model.Units().Count == 0)
Line 261:  {
Line 262:         <p>To find units, start by entering your search terms.  The more terms you enter, the smaller the list of matching units will be.</p>
 

 Source File:  d:\home\site\wwwroot\Views\Unit\Filter.cshtml    Line:  260

Stack Trace:



[InvalidOperationException: The cast to value type 'Int32' failed because the materialized value is null. Either the result type's generic parameter or the query must use a nullable type.]
   System.Data.Common.Internal.Materialization.ErrorHandlingValueReader`1.GetValue(DbDataReader reader, Int32 ordinal) +95
   System.Data.Common.Internal.Materialization.Shaper.GetColumnValueWithErrorHandling(Int32 ordinal) +39
   lambda_method(Closure , Shaper ) +1694
   System.Data.Common.Internal.Materialization.Coordinator`1.ReadNextElement(Shaper shaper) +163
   System.Data.Common.Internal.Materialization.SimpleEnumerator.MoveNext() +97
   System.Collections.Generic.List`1..ctor(IEnumerable`1 collection) +460
   System.Linq.Enumerable.ToList(IEnumerable`1 source) +58
   MUL2.Models.UnitSearch.Units() +8776
   ASP._Page_Views_Unit_Filter_cshtml.Execute() in d:\home\site\wwwroot\Views\Unit\Filter.cshtml:260
   System.Web.WebPages.WebPageBase.ExecutePageHierarchy() +197
   System.Web.Mvc.WebViewPage.ExecutePageHierarchy() +104
   System.Web.WebPages.StartPage.RunPage() +17
   System.Web.WebPages.StartPage.ExecutePageHierarchy() +64
   System.Web.WebPages.WebPageBase.ExecutePageHierarchy(WebPageContext pageContext, TextWriter writer, WebPageRenderingBase startPage) +78
   System.Web.Mvc.RazorView.RenderView(ViewContext viewContext, TextWriter writer, Object instance) +257
   System.Web.Mvc.BuildManagerCompiledView.Render(ViewContext viewContext, TextWriter writer) +107
   System.Web.Mvc.ViewResultBase.ExecuteResult(ControllerContext context) +291
   System.Web.Mvc.ControllerActionInvoker.InvokeActionResult(ControllerContext controllerContext, ActionResult actionResult) +13
   System.Web.Mvc.<>c__DisplayClass1a.<InvokeActionResultWithFilters>b__17() +23
   System.Web.Mvc.ControllerActionInvoker.InvokeActionResultFilter(IResultFilter filter, ResultExecutingContext preContext, Func`1 continuation) +245
   System.Web.Mvc.<>c__DisplayClass1c.<InvokeActionResultWithFilters>b__19() +22
   System.Web.Mvc.ControllerActionInvoker.InvokeActionResultFilter(IResultFilter filter, ResultExecutingContext preContext, Func`1 continuation) +245
   System.Web.Mvc.<>c__DisplayClass1c.<InvokeActionResultWithFilters>b__19() +22
   System.Web.Mvc.ControllerActionInvoker.InvokeActionResultWithFilters(ControllerContext controllerContext, IList`1 filters, ActionResult actionResult) +176
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.<>c__DisplayClass2a.<BeginInvokeAction>b__20() +75
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.<>c__DisplayClass25.<BeginInvokeAction>b__22(IAsyncResult asyncResult) +99
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.WrappedAsyncResult`1.End() +50
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.AsyncControllerActionInvoker.EndInvokeAction(IAsyncResult asyncResult) +27
   System.Web.Mvc.<>c__DisplayClass1d.<BeginExecuteCore>b__18(IAsyncResult asyncResult) +14
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.<>c__DisplayClass4.<MakeVoidDelegate>b__3(IAsyncResult ar) +16
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.WrappedAsyncResult`1.End() +50
   System.Web.Mvc.Controller.EndExecuteCore(IAsyncResult asyncResult) +36
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.<>c__DisplayClass4.<MakeVoidDelegate>b__3(IAsyncResult ar) +16
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.WrappedAsyncResult`1.End() +50
   System.Web.Mvc.Controller.EndExecute(IAsyncResult asyncResult) +26
   System.Web.Mvc.Controller.System.Web.Mvc.Async.IAsyncController.EndExecute(IAsyncResult asyncResult) +10
   System.Web.Mvc.<>c__DisplayClass8.<BeginProcessRequest>b__3(IAsyncResult asyncResult) +25
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.<>c__DisplayClass4.<MakeVoidDelegate>b__3(IAsyncResult ar) +16
   System.Web.Mvc.Async.WrappedAsyncResult`1.End() +50
   System.Web.Mvc.MvcHandler.EndProcessRequest(IAsyncResult asyncResult) +28
   System.Web.Mvc.MvcHandler.System.Web.IHttpAsyncHandler.EndProcessRequest(IAsyncResult result) +9
   System.Web.CallHandlerExecutionStep.System.Web.HttpApplication.IExecutionStep.Execute() +9644037
   System.Web.HttpApplication.ExecuteStep(IExecutionStep step, Boolean& completedSynchronously) +155

 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: El Kabong on 18 August 2016, 15:28:56
^^ Seconded.
MUL throwing script errors when I try to pull anything up.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 18 August 2016, 20:26:39
Huh, so it ain't just me?
By the way, i go similar error in Camospecs too.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 18 August 2016, 20:33:34
It's been passed up the chain.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 19 August 2016, 14:20:47
I found a work around for the MUL problem.

If you google: Master Unit List and then the name of the unit you want to view, the link will take you there with no problem.

This only works for units, not sources.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Silent Jester on 23 August 2016, 14:20:21
Was wondering if there was any update on this Error with the MUL?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 23 August 2016, 14:56:47
No.

You'll learn about it immediately if there is.  Promise. :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Punishermark on 26 August 2016, 09:56:07
Any update on fixing the MUL?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 26 August 2016, 10:05:03
Yes, it has been fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 26 August 2016, 11:39:36
The second issue was just fixed this morning. If you are still having problems please let us know.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 26 August 2016, 15:59:18
Regarding the MUL hiccup...

Glad to see it back up!  For the most part, I'm able to run the search just fine.  2 problems have occurred, so just putting it out there to see if others are getting the same results I am

(1) Random Search Fail.
Sometimes, after operating a search (general, era, or faction), I can view the unit in question, click secondary links to look at other variants, go back to the previous, and close.
Sometimes... when I click on an alternate variant, it spews back the same Search Error we previously suffered.

I've been unable to duplicate the error successfully.  It happens at random times for random units.  Sometimes it doesn't happen at all, and sometimes it happens right off the bat.  I am hoping its just my IP and lame-ass upload (while the kids are streaming NetFlix on 3 different devices) and not an actual problem for the MUL.  Still, if anyone else is having an error like that, I felt I should post it...

(2) Add Function Fails to add units into AlphaStrike Force Builder.
Tested this multiple times, clicking the "Add Unit" function on the line with a unit found using the Search functions (generic Search, Era, or Faction)
The "added" units are only added to the Standard Force list, but when I select "AS Builder" from the submenu under "Force" nothing appears in the roster.

Units may still be searched and added under the AS Force Builder normally; Skill ups and Print function remains normal (or at least, pre-hiccup normal; still spits out BV table for AlphaStrike Cards)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 28 August 2016, 20:37:28
The Dasher II 4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6919/dasher-ii-4) has Hardened Armor and a nominal walk speed of 7.  I think there might be an issue with the conversion here, since it probably shouldn't be able to maintain full ground speed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 01 September 2016, 16:07:43
The Koshi 3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6549/koshi-3) has MASC, but this is not reflected in its MV.  MV should be 18" (14" base x 1.25 = 17.5, rounds to nearest whole number).  TMM does not change, DIR does not change, adjusted PV should remain 19 (increase of 0.5 points for movement, previous total was 18.75 thanks to the 3.5 from movement and 0.25 from LTAG.  Total comes up to 19.25, rounds down to 19).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 01 September 2016, 16:23:59
Koshi 3 and Dasher II 4 corrected.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 10 September 2016, 16:00:57
The Orion 1C from XTRO:Primitives vol V is missing
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 10 September 2016, 16:54:12
Several are missing. I'm still trying to finish uploading them but a sick toddler is interrupting me. I'm hoping to finish tonight and get the images in place. The Orion 1C is being trouble. I think that record is messed up somehow. That one may take a little extra time.

Edit:
Toddler with croup is asleep and the rest are entered. They should all be there except the Orion 1C. We need to see why that record is frozen.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 12 September 2016, 12:08:56
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7322/thug-thg-11ecx-jose

The Star League era Faction availability lists "Star League Regular," "Star League Royal," "Terran Hegemony," and "Unique."

However, according to the fluff in XTRO Gunslinger, this design was used by a mercenary in the employ of Amaris (p. 7).

The Star League factions should be removed, and replaced with whatever is appropriate. The Terran Hegemony listing should also probably be removed, since according to the MUL, the Hegemony stopped existing in 2767, and the date on the design is 2772.

Not really sure the "Amaris Empire' or whatever he was elected to is part of the MUL :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 12 September 2016, 13:42:58
I'll get the Thug fixed. Thanks.

There really wasn't a great way of dealing with an occupied Terran Hegemony. The only reason the TH got a faction eentry is to account for some of the militia units that the Star League didn't use like the Mackie and some other items that are planet specific and really not Star League like some of the civilian stuff.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 12 September 2016, 16:12:59
There are eight introtech mechs that were formerly listed as TBD during the early republic and are now listed as Extinct AND TBD. Unsure if this was intentional or TBD the flag wasn't removed when the change was made. All nine are also flagged as Extinct in both the Late Republic and Dark Ages.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/910/dragon-drg-2y-yoriyoshi
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2052/marauder-mad-sd-douglass
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2349/ostroc-osr-2c-michi
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4787/panther-pnt-9r-tanaka
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3036/stalker-stk-3f-jagawen
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3242/thunderbolt-tdr-5s-t-tallman
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/141/atlas-as7-d-danielle
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/150/atlas-as7-wgs-samsonov

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 12 September 2016, 16:34:30
Jose fixed.
Sartis: those have been fixed. I was hoping they would get suppressed once regular data showed up. I'll have to get them deleted en-masse since there are about 1600 TBD entries still kicking around the system and I don't want to have to delete them all by hand.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maingunnery on 12 September 2016, 16:40:04

The primitive Archer has no intro date.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3721/archer-arc-1a
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 12 September 2016, 17:39:46
The primitive Archer has no intro date.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3721/archer-arc-1a

Fixed. Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 12 September 2016, 18:36:34
Emperor 5A (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/963/emperor-emp-5a)

TRO is erroneously listed as 3025. I don't know if it is mentioned in a TRO (I see nothing in 3058U), but it isn't TRO3025.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 12 September 2016, 19:22:42
I don't want to have to delete them all by hand.

yeah, that's fair
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 12 September 2016, 19:46:18
Emperor 5A (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/963/emperor-emp-5a)

TRO is erroneously listed as 3025. I don't know if it is mentioned in a TRO (I see nothing in 3058U), but it isn't TRO3025.

TR3025 p120 lists "EMP Emperor" as an early mech design of same era as BNC and MCK.  That's what that MUL entry was created to reference.  But yeah, now that XTRO Primitives vol 4 has more of the story, it will be the new TR reference.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Frabby on 13 September 2016, 07:54:02
The Cameron battlecruiser has an intro date of 2688 in the MUL and is named accordingly:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3890/cameron-battlecruiser-2688

Problem: TRO:3057 and TRO:2750 consistently give its intro date as 2668, twenty years earlier. TRO:3057r gives the date as 2688 in what seems to me may have been a typo.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 13 September 2016, 08:40:30
The Cameron battlecruiser has an intro date of 2688 in the MUL and is named accordingly:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3890/cameron-battlecruiser-2688

Problem: TRO:3057 and TRO:2750 consistently give its intro date as 2668, twenty years earlier. TRO:3057r gives the date as 2688 in what seems to me may have been a typo.

Newer sources trump old. It may be a typo, but errata is not being accepted for any of those sources at this time, and this is the wrong place to report such an error anyway.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MrKiasu on 13 September 2016, 11:06:06
RFL-3N availability seems very limited in the star league era. It's not even available to the SLDF or TH. Is that righ:t?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 13 September 2016, 20:32:51
How are these availability settings determined? Specific entries in a TRO or Source Book? RATs?

Also, does "availability" means it was available through whatever means? i.e.: manufacturing vs. legal sales from the SLDF or inter-House trade
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 13 September 2016, 20:40:36
Yes, and lots up filling in the blanks.
Available means we believe multiple regiments/clusters/etc have (or could have) multiple of that unit in its forces.  We don't care how they would have gotten there (new production, old production, absorbing star league forced, refit of other models, sold by clan merchants, doesn't matter).
Though unless a source specifically mentions large numbers available through salvage, we don't include salvage.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 14 September 2016, 00:03:28
This thread is for all error reports and suggestions for the MUL online database, as found at:


Homeworld Clan and Late Succession Wars data is now available.
Star League and Early Succession Wars data is now available.

In the Master Unit List, the introductory date for the CPLT-K2 variant is apparently retconned to 3033.

I find this a little disturbing, since it is a prominently noted variant, complete with record sheets in the original 1986 edition of the TRO 3025 and it's 1996 Revision. But at some point since CGL took over, it's intro has been retconned to 3033, throwing away 21 years of canon and gameplay.  So I guess what I am asking, is 3033 the official introduction date for the production model of the k2, with it existing as House Kurita's standard refit before that, or is it CGLs stance now that the TRO was just plain wrong, and no PPC Cats before 3033?  (I'd also note your own tables in House Kurita 3025 lists K2 as available)  And if so, when were they first available as a unit?

Any official ruling on that would be greatly appreciated by this long time player.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 14 September 2016, 00:32:42
We're going over the issue now, and we'll update here when it's been decided on.  Thanks for bringing it up.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 14 September 2016, 04:59:40
First of all thank you for your great work.
It seems to me that all of the BA from TRO3058U are missing dark age availability.
is this intentional?
 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 14 September 2016, 05:37:46
Most of 3058 is missing many eras. This is an artifact of how long it takes to compile this stuff. Only about 1/3 of the units in the MUL have faction data for the later eras.

Side note: 3058 is the current TRO of units I'm working on. I've been working on it and 3055 for a while now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Prussian Havoc on 14 September 2016, 10:18:49
We're going over the issue now, and we'll update here when it's been decided on.  Thanks for bringing it up.

A number of us over at HBS's BATTLETECH forum are quite interested in the Introduction Date of the K2: https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/3819/comments/67713

Some want a Retcon of a Retcon so as to put the Catapult K2 "in play" for HBS's 3025 BATTLETECH.

And some of support the original CGL 3033 Introduction Date of the K2, with HBS free to introduce the K2 in a future potential expansion to BATTLETECH.


We await your response, Good Sir! :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 14 September 2016, 10:42:15
Rim Worlds Republic
Field Report:2765 Periphery

Page 18: The Black Knight, Excalibur, Highlander, and King Crab are becoming "more common sights" in the Imperial Divisions.
Page 20: A full company of Atlas were purchased by Taborri Amaris for her Amaris Regulars.
Page 21: Land-Air 'Mechs are available in the Battalion size

- Atlas AS7-D
- Black Knight BL-6-KNT
- Excalibur EXC-B2
- Highlander HGN-732
- King Crab KGC-000

- Stinger LAM
- Wasp LAM
- Phoenix Hawk LAM

Liberation of Terra, Volumes I & II

Missing units from the RATs.

- Bombardier BMB-12D
- Cestus CTS-6Y
- Crab CRB-27
- Emperor EMP-6A
- Exterminator EXT-4D
- Firefly FFL-4A
- Flashman FLS-8K
- Galahad GLH-2D
- Griffin GRF-2N
- Hermes HER-1S
- Hussar HSR-200-D
- Kintaro KTO-19
- Kyudo KY2-D-02
- Lancelot LNC25-01
- Lynx LNX-9Q
- Mongoose MON-66
- Night Hawk NTK-2Q
- Panther PNT-9R
- Pillager PLG-3Z
- Rifleman RFL-2N
- Rifleman RFL-3N
- Sentinel STN-3L
- Shootist ST-8A
- Talon TLN-5V
- Whitworth WTH-1 (TRO:3039, p. 126) - A branch of the Whitworth company existed in the RWR.
- Whitworth WTH-1S (TRO:3039, p. 126) - A branch of the Whitworth company existed in the RWR.
- Wyvern WVE-5N
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 14 September 2016, 19:53:10
We typically don't use RATs as a basis for this unless other reliable information is completely lacking. We'll take a look at your list.

Only the Whitworth WTH-0 was produced in the RWR.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 14 September 2016, 20:00:59
"The WTH-0 design was fielded exclusively by the Amaris Dragoons and used more as a terror weapon. Only twenty-four were ever made by Whitworth’s Republic branch on some forgotten world."

Seems odd that they'd set up an entire factory for 24 units, since they were made in 2754 and in peacetime. But you guys probably have more info on it than I do.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 14 September 2016, 22:35:02
I'd hate to bring up more stuff to "add to the pile" ...but the MUL is not correctly displaying the BV for Clan Battle Armor.

I believe it has to do with the "generic" CAR4 profile which is likely using the "4" troop multiplier instead of "5" from the Tech Manual p.316

Gnome [Standard] http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1216/gnome-battle-armor-standard
. Individual Trooper BV = 83  [per TRO3058_Upgrade p.51 ]
. . with x5 Multiplier = 7.0 or 581  [matches RecordSheet_3058_Unabridged_Clan p.89]
. . with x4 Multiplier = 5.2, or 431.6 BV  [close to MUL error]

Elemental [MicroPulse]: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/962/elemental-battle-armor-micropl
. Individual Trooper BV = 69  [per TRO3058_Upgrade p.45 ]
. . with x5 Multiplier = 7.0 or 483  [closely resembles RecordSheet_3058_Unabridged_Clan p.82]
. . with x4 Multiplier = 5.2, or 358.8~ BV  [close to MUL error]

Only suggestion I have is to make "CAR5" the default card for these (and other) primarily Clan-fielded battle armor.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Pa Weasley on 14 September 2016, 22:54:45
Just to note, the individual BVs shown in the TROs are rounded. If you're calculating the BV for a squad/point/level I you take the unrounded individual BV, apply the multiplier, then round.

As for the suggestion, it can certainly be taken under consideration but no saying if or when something can come of it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 14 September 2016, 23:21:13
Just to note, the individual BVs shown in the TROs are rounded. If you're calculating the BV for a squad/point/level I you take the unrounded individual BV, apply the multiplier, then round.

As for the suggestion, it can certainly be taken under consideration but no saying if or when something can come of it.

Agreed, which is why i checked my numbers against the multipliers in the Tech Manual (table on p.316).  While I did not manually calculate each BA, I followed the TRO entries and then multiplied by the respective multipliers.  Anything within 10 BV didn't concern me... but when the difference between the MUL and the Record Sheets  is +100?  I decided to test the "Wrong Multiplier" theory and felt inclined to share my conclusions.

I don't have any reason to believe the Record Sheets, TRO, or TechManual to be in error; the current values on the MUL for [respective] Clan-fielded BA are misleading (undervalued).  Anyone with the Record Sheets will have the right of it; anyone using the Force Builder may have issues.

**Edit** italicized for clarity
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 September 2016, 23:36:15
It's a technical issue I believe.  The MUL is supposed to show BV for all three (4, 5 and 6).  It's currently showing PVs instead of  BVs on the "5 trooper squad" and "6 trooper squad" lines, and those are supposed to be BV.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 16 September 2016, 13:30:52
Methinks the card for the Leviathan JumpShip needs some work... :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 20 September 2016, 20:05:59
Vulture MkIII "D" variant:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6275/vulture-mk-iii-d

Sources:
TRO3145_Clans p.41
RS3145_Unabridged p.454
AlphaStrike Companion (conversion process p.90-142)

Damage is currently listed as "5/5/3" for 39 PV.  I believe this is in error and should instead be "6/6/4" and 43 PV

2x clan RAC5 damage = 4.0/4.0/4/.0       [ASC table values p.108]
...with 60 shots per weapon (120 shots, or 6 tons of ammo combined), the damage should not be reduced by the Insufficient Ammo multiplier  [ASC p.101]
2x clan Medium Pulse damage = 1.54/1.54/-

Total Heat = 12(6)+8(4)+2(engine) = 22 total heat
Total Heat Dissipation = 24 (12 double heat sinks)
...since "24 > 22" there is no need to check for Overheat.  The unit is efficient.

Final damage should be 5.54/5.54/4.0 ~ 6/6/4
I have calculated a +4 increase in OFV, which should directly affect the PV of the unit.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 24 September 2016, 12:10:34
I think the Firestarter availability is backward. The FS9-A (2550) was the earlier design. Shouldn't it be available to IS/Periphery General as well? The FS9-H (2703) and FS9-K also seems like they'd be "general", or in the case of the -K, Lyran exclusive. It was built by Argile Technologies and there were no Capellan Firestarter lines at the time. At least none I've seen.

TRO:3039, 'Variants'
Quote
"A companion model, the FS9-K, mounted two flamers, a large laser, and two small lasers. However, the -H model proved to be so popular that it was Argile’s dominant product after 2703."
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 24 September 2016, 13:43:48
We're going over the issue now, and we'll update here when it's been decided on.  Thanks for bringing it up.
guessing no decisions on the CPLT-K2's introductory date?  I'll keep checking back about once a week, either way, but won't bug ya about it again.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 24 September 2016, 14:37:26
Issue: MUL cards for ASFs describe Engine Hits as 1/4 thrust lost; Alpha Strike pg. 58 (second printing, PDF) describes an Engine Hit as 1/2 thrust lost (round down).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 24 September 2016, 16:01:47
guessing no decisions on the CPLT-K2's introductory date?  I'll keep checking back about once a week, either way, but won't bug ya about it again.

Most often when you file a report and don't get an immediate response, it's because there is a LOT of discussion going on behind the scenes. I will say that I support your error report; the CPLT-K2 is one of the units I definitely did the date on, and unless I made a mistake I am certain I submitted it as being from the 3020s or earlier.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 24 September 2016, 16:06:55
The Eagle (ASF)'s role in the MUL is currently "None".
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alexander Knight on 24 September 2016, 19:46:36
The Eagle (ASF)'s role in the MUL is currently "None".

He's on break.....
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Jim1701 on 25 September 2016, 22:41:51
The Vandal LI-O is listed as a standard tech unit but it has a Large VSP Laser which AFAIK is still advanced tech even in its native era. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 25 September 2016, 23:36:02
Most often when you file a report and don't get an immediate response, it's because there is a LOT of discussion going on behind the scenes. I will say that I support your error report; the CPLT-K2 is one of the units I definitely did the date on, and unless I made a mistake I am certain I submitted it as being from the 3020s or earlier.

Cool.  Well, as said, not trying to be a pain.  I always took 3033 as being when factory new versions of the K2 rolled off the first new CPLT line since Hollis stopped production way back when, and that the K2 in the TRO 3025 was a general refit, like the Shadow Hawk or Wolverine K.  But getting an actual "canon" answer, and possibly even clarification on when it first arrived as a Mod, would definitely my day. 

So again, I'll check in periodically.  Just because of the way this Forum works, wasn't realyl sure if my question had been seen (as the post following could have been directed to several people) or lost in the glut, as it were.

cheers!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 26 September 2016, 17:28:57
The Vandal LI-O is listed as a standard tech unit but it has a Large VSP Laser which AFAIK is still advanced tech even in its native era.

The VSPLs are listed as common (aka TL) in IntOps as of 3080.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Jim1701 on 27 September 2016, 01:46:49
The VSPLs are listed as common (aka TL) in IntOps as of 3080.

Christ, there is a THIRD source of tech translations!?!  This is getting stupid.    >:(  Whenever TPTB are done screwing around it would be nice to see a compiled tech change list available for download.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Moonsword on 27 September 2016, 19:45:33
You're right, all of the systems in non-core supplements and tech level transitions needed to be consolidated down into one spot.  That's why Interstellar Operations has a whole chapter devoted to that subject!  It's available for download from BattleCorps (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3485) and DriveThruRPG (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/153613).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Dante904 on 28 September 2016, 01:32:02
I was searching for the answer for a while, but can't find one.
The issue is with the Combat Manual availability lists don't match MUL. For example CM: Mercenary lost Jagermech JM6-A as available for mercs, while MUL don't. Its just an example, as some more mechs availabilities don't match.
I presume its just silly me not being able to find a simple answer, but still looking for clarifying.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Jim1701 on 28 September 2016, 01:50:29
You're right, all of the systems in non-core supplements and tech level transitions needed to be consolidated down into one spot.  That's why Interstellar Operations has a whole chapter devoted to that subject!  It's available for download from BattleCorps (http://www.battlecorps.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3485) and DriveThruRPG (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/153613).

If I had not already shelled out for two books already to get what I thought was the whole list then that would be ok but I did and so it's not.  I don't think I should have to shell more money for something I thought I already had.  There isn't anything else in IntOps that I would use.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 28 September 2016, 09:34:46
I was searching for the answer for a while, but can't find one.
The issue is with the Combat Manual availability lists don't match MUL. For example CM: Mercenary lost Jagermech JM6-A as available for mercs, while MUL don't. Its just an example, as some more mechs availabilities don't match.
I presume its just silly me not being able to find a simple answer, but still looking for clarifying.

The MUL and CM tables are not meant to match exactly. They'll be really close, but they are nonetheless two completely separate availability systems, and players can use whichever one they like.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Mendrugo on 06 October 2016, 18:53:52
Introduction date for the Transgressor fighter is incorrect. 

It is listed as 2890 in the MUL, but TRO:3025 (p. 150) indicates that the still living Harry S. Yoshita was one of the original designers of the Transgressor.  House Liao: The Capellan Confederation (p. 50) indicates that "the first of the Confederation's new Transgressor fighters became available" in 2987.  That date would be consistent with the TRO:3025 entry.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Freak on 10 October 2016, 12:17:56
While looking up some BV/PV points earlier I noticed the Raven 4Lr is listed on its AS card as a Missile Boat. I call shenannigans on this as apart from loss of the Narc beacon it has exactly the same electronics as the 4L and its single solitary missile rack is an MML-7. this should really be a Scout like its 4L predecessor.
Title: SUGGESTION for MUL Printouts
Post by: -Ice on 10 October 2016, 16:12:25
I have three suggestions for the MUL printouts for Alpha Strike.

1.  Can we please have the option to print out colored cards similar to the Lance pack cards shown here (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=54970.0)?  In this modern day and age, it's fairly easy to print out full-color items and doing so will make it easier to attract new/younger players to the game.  After all, if we are really content with black-and-white, we wouldn't need to paint our mechs, would we?  >:D

2.  Another option I would like to suggest is the inclusion of numbers on the Armor and Structure.  For example:
A: (10) 0000000000
S: (8 ) 00000000
The reason I'm asking for this is because I am planning to play WITHOUT having to mark the cards.  Instead, I will use counters like coins/beads/tokens to track damage and having this option would make it easier to determine how much armor/structure a mech has and how much is remaining.

3.  Third suggestion would be the option to automatically convert mech movement from inches to hexes.  I don't have the space in my house to play on a 6x4 table so we're playing on the mapsheets instead.


Thank you!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 16 October 2016, 19:15:20
When can I start posting corrections for cards again?  I seem to recall the arbiters of the MUL estate being on vacation or something.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 October 2016, 20:30:40
Post whenever you like.  We will respond when we get to it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 16 October 2016, 21:41:44
Can't argue with that.

Units missing pictures: Boomerang Spotter Plane (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3854/boomerang-spotter-plane-standard), Vulcan VLC-3N (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3460/vulcan-vlc-3n)

Units missing roles (or have role: "None"): Boeing Jump Bomber (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/409/boeing-jump-bomber-standard), Saber SB-26 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4958/sabre-sb-26), Sabre SB-28 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4960/sabre-sb-28), Saber SB-29 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4961/sabre-sb-29), Centurion CNT-1A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3924/centurion-cnt-1a), Centurion CNT-2D (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3926/centurion-cnt-2d), Centurion CNT-3S (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3927/centurion-cnt-3s), Blackwasp Mk. 30 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/390/blackwasp-mk-30), Planetlifter Air Transport (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2544/planetlifter-air-transport-standard), Planetlifter Tactical Support Aircraft (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4840/planetlifter-tactical-support-aircraft-standard)
Hellcat HCT-313 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4299/hellcat-hct-313), Eagle EGL-R1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4106/eagle-egl-r1), Eagle EGL-R11 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4108/eagle-egl-r11), Eagle EGL-R4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4109/eagle-egl-r4), Deathstalker F-77A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4056/deathstalker-f-77a)

Units with thrust printed in inches: Saber SB-27b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2762/sabre-sb-27b), Zero ZRO-116b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3637/zero-zro-116b), Corsair CSR-V12b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/694/corsair-csr-v12b), Hellcat II HCT-213c (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1470/hellcat-ii-hct-213c) (it was at this moment I realized most of these were in HS:OK) Lightning LTN-G15b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1878/lightning-ltn-g15b), Voidseeker Mk 39-004 Interceptor (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7144/voidseeker-mk-39-004-interceptor), Eagle EGL-R6b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/939/eagle-egl-r6b), Voidseeker Mk 39-007 Striker (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7145/voidseeker-mk-39-007-striker), Chippewa CHP-W5b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/585/chippewa-chp-w5b), Stuka STU-K5b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3111/stuka-stu-k5b), Thunderbird TRB-D36b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3227/thunderbird-trb-d36b)

Units missing entire cards: Cheetah II F-12A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5856/cheetah-ii-f-12a), Tabanid Light Drone Fighter (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3148/tabanid-light-drone-fighter-standard), Planetlifter Support Aircraft (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2545/planetlifter-support-aircraft-standard), Scarab Medium Drone Fighter (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2812/scarab-medium-drone-fighter-standard), Aeshna Heavy Drone Fighter (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/15/aeshna-heavy-drone-fighter-standard)

Units with incorrect RS sources: Lancer LX-1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4470/lancer-lx-1) (the record sheet does not exist; can't really be in RS3067U if it doesn't exist)

I think that's literally every fighter on the MUL with errors at present (obviously excepting the ones that don't have record sheets or anything else).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Dohon on 20 October 2016, 11:47:21
With the release of a few new products over the past few weeks, a few good and old classic `Mechs got a new facelift. The new faces are:

Griffin GRF-1N [Wireframe image + AS card] (Source: Spotlight On - Crescent Hawks)
Valkyrie VLK-QA [Wireframe image + AS card] (Source: Spotlight On - Crescent Hawks + Sourcebook - First Succession War)
Thunderbolt TDR-5S [Wireframe image + AS card] (Source: Spotlight On - Crescent Hawks)
Wolverine WVR-6R [Wireframe Image] (Source: Sourcebook - First Succession War)
Wasp WSP-1A [Wireframe Image] (Source: Sourcebook - First Succession War)

The entries in the relevant sources might refer to other variants, but the images themselves refer to the model and variant as described above.

Can the old "wireframes" on the MUL be replaced by these new appearances?

EDIT: Added reference for new WSP-1A image.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 20 October 2016, 12:20:21
Can't argue with that.

Units missing pictures: Boomerang Spotter Plane (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3854/boomerang-spotter-plane-standard), Vulcan VLC-3N (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3460/vulcan-vlc-3n)
Fixed.

Quote
Units with incorrect RS sources: Lancer LX-1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4470/lancer-lx-1) (the record sheet does not exist; can't really be in RS3067U if it doesn't exist)
Fixed.


Quote
Units with thrust printed in inches: Saber SB-27b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2762/sabre-sb-27b), Zero ZRO-116b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3637/zero-zro-116b), Corsair CSR-V12b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/694/corsair-csr-v12b), Hellcat II HCT-213c (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1470/hellcat-ii-hct-213c) (it was at this moment I realized most of these were in HS:OK) Lightning LTN-G15b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1878/lightning-ltn-g15b), Voidseeker Mk 39-004 Interceptor (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7144/voidseeker-mk-39-004-interceptor), Eagle EGL-R6b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/939/eagle-egl-r6b), Voidseeker Mk 39-007 Striker (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7145/voidseeker-mk-39-007-striker), Chippewa CHP-W5b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/585/chippewa-chp-w5b), Stuka STU-K5b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3111/stuka-stu-k5b), Thunderbird TRB-D36b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3227/thunderbird-trb-d36b)
Fixed.

Quote
Units missing roles (or have role: "None"): Boeing Jump Bomber (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/409/boeing-jump-bomber-standard), Saber SB-26 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4958/sabre-sb-26), Sabre SB-28 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4960/sabre-sb-28), Saber SB-29 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4961/sabre-sb-29), Centurion CNT-1A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3924/centurion-cnt-1a), Centurion CNT-2D (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3926/centurion-cnt-2d), Centurion CNT-3S (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3927/centurion-cnt-3s), Blackwasp Mk. 30 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/390/blackwasp-mk-30), Planetlifter Air Transport (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2544/planetlifter-air-transport-standard), Planetlifter Tactical Support Aircraft (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4840/planetlifter-tactical-support-aircraft-standard)
Hellcat HCT-313 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4299/hellcat-hct-313), Eagle EGL-R1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4106/eagle-egl-r1), Eagle EGL-R11 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4108/eagle-egl-r11), Eagle EGL-R4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4109/eagle-egl-r4), Deathstalker F-77A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4056/deathstalker-f-77a)
fixed.  Boomerang and Planetlifter Tactical are still none.

Quote
Units missing entire cards: Cheetah II F-12A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5856/cheetah-ii-f-12a), Tabanid Light Drone Fighter (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3148/tabanid-light-drone-fighter-standard), Planetlifter Support Aircraft (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2545/planetlifter-support-aircraft-standard), Scarab Medium Drone Fighter (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2812/scarab-medium-drone-fighter-standard), Aeshna Heavy Drone Fighter (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/15/aeshna-heavy-drone-fighter-standard)
and fixed.

thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 20 October 2016, 13:33:46
 Monitor Naval Vessel (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2219/monitor-naval-vessel-standard) has no role.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 20 October 2016, 20:09:38
Fixed.
Fixed.

Fixed.
fixed.  Boomerang and Planetlifter Tactical are still none.
and fixed.

thanks.

Thank you!  The Corsair V12b and V18, Sabre 27 and 27b, and Eagle R6 have all appeared in games of mine in the last two months, so these fixes will see immediate table time. O0
Title: Re: SUGGESTION for MUL Printouts
Post by: -Ice on 23 October 2016, 14:37:45
4.  I tried changing the MV values from inches to hexes but realized that doing so alters the TMM.  For instance, the Jenner JR7-D with a move of 14"/10"j has a TMM of 3 but changing it to 7/5j brings the TMM to 1.  Can we please have the option to enter the TMM manually instead of it being automatically calculated off the MV value?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adrian Gideon on 23 October 2016, 21:55:53
TMM should not change.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 24 October 2016, 09:42:55
He knows that, he's saying that the TMM is calculated automatically when you click "Customize" on a given unit's card and input a speed in hexes instead of inches.  Since the speed in hexes is 7/5j, the TMM is calculated as if the speed were seven inches instead, and displaying incorrectly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: -Ice on 24 October 2016, 12:34:13
Thanks for moving my suggestions!   8)

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: -Ice on 24 October 2016, 15:11:12
One issue I just came across.... when adding mechs via the "+Force" button, they print out with Skill: 0 instead of "4"
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ActionButler on 11 November 2016, 09:11:58
A poster pointed out to me in a PM that the Clan Mechanized Infantry Mimir/Watch Counter Insurgency Point http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/622/clan-mechanized-infantry-mimirwatch-counter-insurgency-point is currently listed as Inner Sphere technology.  Since the Bears have all but completely integrated with the FRR, I can see this go either way, but I wanted to pass it on just the same.   


NCKestrel: Fixed, thanks for you and anon poster for pointing it out :).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 11 November 2016, 23:19:59
**Bump**
Vulture MkIII "D" variant.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=47774.msg1259787#msg1259787



Also the Hata-moto Chi, HTM-28T (Shin) variant needs to have someone look it over.  (I don't have the TRO, but, from the Record Sheet, there's a few things needing corrected).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5457/hatamoto-chi-htm-28t-shin
Source: RS3050_Unabridged_ InnerSphere p.223

Movement: change 8" to 6"j
Damage
 . Short: change from 3 to 5
 . Medium: change from 3 to 5

Long Range Damage, Overheat, and listed Specials all appear fine as is.

PV will need to be recalculated accordingly (my numbers came back with 49.75, or 50 PV)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 20 November 2016, 21:06:12
I noticed the Whitworth WTH-1 isn't listed as available to the Star League during the Star League era even though TRO3039 (pg 126) description implies the variant was made at the request of Star League Defense Forces:

"Originally armed with dual Harpoon-6 SRM launch-
ers, Star League designers convinced the manufacturer to
switch to the longer reach of the Longbow LRM 10 series
after noting that..."

Of course, the text doesn't actually state that the SDLF ever used WTH-1. It mentions that Whitworths were absorbed by Great House armies but it doesn't specify any variants. But logically the Star League wouldn't have made the request unless they wanted to use WTH-1, i think, so i'd suggest WTH-1 is made available for the Star League in MUL.

Unless i'm missing another source, quote or something that clearly implies otherwise?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3538/whitworth-wth-1
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 02 December 2016, 18:28:44
Most often when you file a report and don't get an immediate response, it's because there is a LOT of discussion going on behind the scenes. I will say that I support your error report; the CPLT-K2 is one of the units I definitely did the date on, and unless I made a mistake I am certain I submitted it as being from the 3020s or earlier.

So at this point, I'm going to guess the K2 question is either deemed "correct" in date, or got buried?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 02 December 2016, 18:52:29
So at this point, I'm going to guess the K2 question is either deemed "correct" in date, or got buried?

Buried under a ton of other work at the moment, presumably.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 02 December 2016, 21:41:11
So at this point, I'm going to guess the K2 question is either deemed "correct" in date, or got buried?

We haven't decided what date to change it to.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 03 December 2016, 14:11:21
We haven't decided what date to change it to.

Ah, OK... didn't realize I was opening such a can of worms... (looks sheepish).  Always figured it was a Field Refit like the SHD-2K, etc, and probably a product of the Second Succession War, when they still had tech levels high enough for such an extreme conversion, of real late 3rd Succession War, 3020s, just before the TRO 3025, era, when the resurgence brought on the Grand Dragon, the ZEU-6T, Hatchetman, etc... but TBH, in all my years of playing, the only two "solid" dates I have ever seen associated with the K2 was that it existed in some form when the TRO 3025 was released, and that in 3033 Kurita started the first Catapult line in over 200 years, and produced the K2.  At this late date, I doubt I'll be able to plead and cajole Mitch into adding it to HBS's game, but as a long time fan of the chassis in TT, I would love to know, regardless.  I feel like I'm being a bad person running K2s in my 3025 campaign right now......... :(
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nahuris on 09 December 2016, 23:53:11
Need to first thank two mods -- ActionButler, and Bosefius --- I didn't find this thread in a search, and ActionButler happily passed on my request on the infantry without criticism, and Bosefius did the same with a question I had on the ML variant of the Scorpion Light Tank.

Which brings me back to this, again -----
The MUL entry for the Scorpion Light Tank, ML variant has been updated from 2/2/0 damage, to 2/1/0 --- but I am curious, as it is only armed with 2 medium lasers and a machine gun for a maximum of 12 damage, how it gets the 2 at short range? If I missed something in the calculations, I would appreciate having that information.
This also brings me to the Vedette Liao, which has the same 2 medium lasers and a machine gun in the turret, with 2 tons of ammo for the machine gun - has a 2/1/0 damage profile, but has a Turret of 1/1/0 listed, even though all the weapons are in that turret ... and it's exactly the same turret armament as the Scorpion Light Tank.

Thank You very much, in advance
Nahuris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 10 December 2016, 06:55:51
Base damage is rounded up.  So 1.2 becomes 2.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nahuris on 10 December 2016, 13:39:02
Base damage is rounded up.  So 1.2 becomes 2.
Does it always round up, because i have seen it round down, in other applications with 1.3 and 1.4 damage -- and that is with vehicles, where heat is not a factor.
I do appreciate the response, though, as I have been doing a lot of work with conventional forces, recently

Nahuris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 10 December 2016, 15:28:54
Yes, non-special ability damage values round up.  Special abilities damages round normal.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nahuris on 10 December 2016, 19:48:09
Yes, non-special ability damage values round up.  Special abilities damages round normal.
Again, thank you -- ok, this does then create a question for the Vedette (Liao), which has that same 2 medium lasers and machine gun in the turret, but is listed with turret 1/1/0.

Nahuris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 10 December 2016, 20:06:47
RS 3039u is showing me the Vedette Liao's machine gun as front mounted and not in the turret?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nahuris on 11 December 2016, 00:09:41
RS 3039u is showing me the Vedette Liao's machine gun as front mounted and not in the turret?

I tend to use SAW, as it's faster, and they have it in the turret, with 2 tons of ammo in the body ......

That works, though, and thank you

Nahuris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 12 December 2016, 16:55:27
RS 3039u is showing me the Vedette Liao's machine gun as front mounted and not in the turret?

TRO3039 p.66-67  **PDF version, "Corrected Second Printing"**
The weapons entry for the primary variant of the Vedette puts the MG in the turret; it doesn't mention where it should go for the others. (Intuitively, the MG is maintained throughout the other variants; only the primary weapon is weight-swapped).

Is it possible the [the Vedette's] Record Sheets were wrong?

**edit: source**
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 14 December 2016, 07:05:10
We haven't decided what date to change it to.

It's my belief the -K2 refit originated on Al'Nair, which TRO 3025 says explicitly manufactures the original AS7-D Atlas, as part of Takashi Kurita's program to create a series of more powerful BattleMechs.  It likely uses the same Lord's Thunder PPC found on the DRG-1G "Grand Dragon."  Furthermore, I think the core issue is the date of Yori 'Mech Works, which I believe was operational well before 3025.  The "atlas" portion in the back of the House Kurita handbook says Yori Mech Works is a joint venture between Luthien Armor Works and Alshain Weaponry and that it was damaged in 3010 but is "recently back to production."  Yori is also known to have later produced both the advanced -K and-K2 versions of the Atlas.
A conservative date for the -K2 is 3024 but I think there is sufficient indirect evidence to date it to 3004.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Vulp on 18 December 2016, 12:20:28
Thanks to the MUL team for all their work, the MUL is a great resource to have available.  Is there any way that fans can help volunteer to contribute to the MUL effort?

Specifically I have a question about the status of the Dark Age unit availabilities.  They are listed in "Draft" status - is there any way to help advance its status?  There is a statement at the top of the this thread that "This database does not include Dark Age availabilities for units published prior to TR 3085". Should be interpreted as a canonical limitation ("The likelihood of encountering a 100 year old Daishi on the battlefield in 3150 is about the same as encountering a century-old WW1 Landship in a present-day conflict")?  Or it is more to limit the scope of work involved providing availability for these eras?

My guess would be mostly the latter (though with a bit of the former) -- this question came up while putting together a Dark Age unit and noticing that Union dropships are on some RATs in 3145, but not tagged as available in the MUL.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 18 December 2016, 13:04:04
Scope of work. I wish it was something simple like this TRO isn't done because some are partially done. We have been working on data for TRO 3055 and later. I have 3039 and 3050 (clans are already done) on the docket next but it is a matter of carving out the time to compile and review.

For a quick answer if there is data available for a unit, it should give something for faction data for all eras after introduction with the exception of homeworld clan mechs. Compare these two examples:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2495/phoenix-hawk-pxh-1k
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4488/legacy-lgc-01

The legacy has full data while the phoenix hawk only has data covering Star League through Early Republic.

As of right now, Dark Age and Late Republic eras only have about 57% coverage. Early Republic era has about 82%. Clan Invasion to Jihad eras have over 99% coverage.

The clan omnis from 3050 all have faction data.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 18 December 2016, 13:24:58
If I may step in for a moment, as a former contributor to the MUL, I feel I should add that RATs should not be taken as "canon." They are a game aid meant to help players quickly create thematic forces; no more, no less.
Title: Lycomb-Davion IntroTech AWESOME Production
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 23 December 2016, 16:38:03
Just curious as I have been unable to find any details on when Lycomb-Davion IntroTech started building Awesomes on New Avalon. 

Am assuming it's one of the many retcons I missed over the years, as when I first played the game only Technicron produced the AWS series.  If there is a better resource for finding out this info, please can somebody direct me to it?
Title: Re: Lycomb-Davion IntroTech AWESOME Production
Post by: nckestrel on 23 December 2016, 17:25:29
Just curious as I have been unable to find any details on when Lycomb-Davion IntroTech started building Awesomes on New Avalon. 

Am assuming it's one of the many retcons I missed over the years, as when I first played the game only Technicron produced the AWS series.  If there is a better resource for finding out this info, please can somebody direct me to it?

Let's back up a sec, what makes you think Lycomb-Davion builds Awesomes on New Avalon?  The MUL doesn't have production information, only availability (and not system specific).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 23 December 2016, 17:36:40
possible lack of info, only world I found lycomb davion listed was for New Avalon.  Excuse me if I missed something. That's kind of the point of posting and asking here, yes?  If incorrect, cool, kindly source the correct info.  But it's rather secondary to the main point, being when lycomb davion started producing AWS on whatever planet.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 23 December 2016, 18:07:35
Field Report 2765: AFFS is the only source implying that Davion made any Awesomes. It is implied on Demeter. The factories were destroyed in the 1st SW. That is the last we hear about them making Awesomes.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 23 December 2016, 19:32:48
If I may step in for a moment, as a former contributor to the MUL, I feel I should add that RATs should not be taken as "canon." They are a game aid meant to help players quickly create thematic forces; no more, no less.

Except that many units have no sources, outside of RATs, for their faction availability. Yet they are listed as available for those factions in the MUL.

CHEVALIER

Is there a published source stating that the Chevalier Light Tank was sold to every state during the Star League era? It's under "General" for all factions during the 2750 era on the MUL.

MERCURY MCY-99
Mercury MCY-99. TRO:2750, p. 16 states that "none of these 'Mechs were allowed outside of the direct control of the Regular Army." Yet it appears on the RATs for CCAF and LCAF and, of course, in their MUL availability.

WARHAMMER WHM-6Rb
This variant is found only on the RATs in the 2765 series (during the Star League) and is replaced by the WHM-6Rk on the DC table. This corresponds directly with what's in the MUL data. FR:2750 states that these "Royals" also represent field upgrades to existing units. So while the Combine and Periphery states are easily capable of upgrading their WHM-6R with double heat sinks and CASE, the MUL doesn't have them as available for these factions. The only place they appear (or do not appear) is in the 2765 RATs.

GALAHAD GLH-1D
As per Herb, this was a discontinued design produced by the Hegemony, just prior to the Star League's existence. (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=38360.msg887231#msg887231 (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=38360.msg887231#msg887231)) It appears in the MUL as available to CCAF, LCAF, AFFS and in their corresponding RATs.

It seems as if the RATs were the initial source for the MUL data and, probably, the reason why there are so many oddities. It's hard to not come to that conclusion.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 23 December 2016, 21:41:46
I'm not sure what your points are here, because you show cases where the RATs and MUL don't agree, and cases where there may be errors with both. My point is that sometimes units appear on RATs just to fill them out, because despite the thousands of units published, there are still gaps. (For example, the Chevalier Light Tank: maybe nobody but the SLDF really used that exact model, but the other states used local designs with the same stats.) Beyond that, mistakes also happen. Sometimes they're corrected through errata, and sometimes they're allowed to stay because their actual impact is minor.

If you feel you have found a mistake, the proper procedure is to report it as errata for the appropriate product. Do note that certain products are considered obsolete and will neither have errata threads nor be corrected. If any newer source disagrees with them, then the older product is usually considered to have been retconned unless the newer book is outright incorrect. TR2750, as one of the earliest Technical Readouts, certainly falls under this guideline. If you are uncertain what fix should be made, then before posting in the errata thread, post a question in either Ask the Writers or Ask the Lead Developers, but understand that it will take some time to get an answer, and that the answer you receive might not be what you wanted.

If you feel that the Master Unit List has an error, then this is the proper thread to post in. A unit's appearance on a RAT can be a point of evidence, but it might not be enough for inclusion on the MUL. On the other hand, a unit not appearing on a RAT is not a point of evidence in either direction. On the gripping hand, there may be internal discussion that places or removes a unit from the MUL without corroborating evidence in print.

BattleTech is a hugely detailed and sprawling universe, covering about six centuries "on-screen" over a couple hundred sourcebooks and novels. No one person can remember it all. Mistakes happen, and it is very much appreciated when the fanbase brings them to the developers' attention, so they can be fixed. All that's asked in return is patience on answers, and a willingness to accept that reports might not be acted upon or result in changes that the reporter might not personally agree with. "Hoarding" mistakes - that is, not reporting them because they're in your favor - or rejecting direct developer input is generally considered poor form, and is just going to prolong arguments.

Whoof. Sorry for the long post, and my apologies if I stepped on any toes, but I worked hard to develop the current errata system at CGL, and I know how hard everyone works behind the scenes, especially the MUL guys.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 December 2016, 22:21:02
Long story made short, if you feel there is an error in the MUL, report it and whatever sources you have for believing it's an error. 
RAT, technical readout, scenario, novel, whatever. 
There are few rules, many guidelines, and mostly headaches from the resulting conflicts.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 26 December 2016, 22:39:39
Regarding the MUL introduction date for the Zeus BattleMech:

TRO: 3025 reports the Zeus was designed in 2407 with Defiance Industries beginning production in 2411.

TRO: 3039 does a massive about face on this and states the Zeus didn't began production until after the fall of the Star League, arriving just in time for the beginning of the First Succession War.  The MUL also uses 2787 as the introduction date with the familiar -6S finally arriving 2898.

This would infer that Defiance Industries, the sole producer of the Zeus, maintained the ability to produce the advanced weapons of the Star League until almost 2900, including extended range energy weapons, Ultra autocannons, the Artemis IV FCS, Ferro-Fibrous armor and most importantly, Double Heat Sinks.

The Tech Manual reports extended range lasers were extinct as of 2950, Ultra autocannons in 2915​, DHS in 2865, ​the ER PPC as of 2860, Artemis IV disappears in 2855, and Ferro-Fibrous armor in 2810. 

How was Defiance Industries making the -5S and 5T ​Zeus​ using reportedly "extinct" technology up until 2898?  Something seems very, very wrong here.  Please review and clarify.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 26 December 2016, 23:09:04
Or Defiance didn't make any Zeus for several decades. Or Defiance made an as of yet undescribed variant for that time.  There's nothing on the MUL that says when production stopped, only when it first started.  If Defiance couldn't produce the 5S and 5T for a time, then they weren't.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 27 December 2016, 10:05:11
Field Report 2765: AFFS is the only source implying that Davion made any Awesomes. It is implied on Demeter. The factories were destroyed in the 1st SW. That is the last we hear about them making Awesomes.

great, that clears that up.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 27 December 2016, 10:13:05
Regarding the MUL introduction date for the Zeus BattleMech:

TRO: 3025 reports the Zeus was designed in 2407 with Defiance Industries beginning production in 2411.

TRO: 3039 does a massive about face on this and states the Zeus didn't began production until after the fall of the Star League, arriving just in time for the beginning of the First Succession War.  The MUL also uses 2787 as the introduction date with the familiar -6S finally arriving 2898.

This would infer that Defiance Industries, the sole producer of the Zeus, maintained the ability to produce the advanced weapons of the Star League until almost 2900, including extended range energy weapons, Ultra autocannons, the Artemis IV FCS, Ferro-Fibrous armor and most importantly, Double Heat Sinks.

The Tech Manual reports extended range lasers were extinct as of 2950, Ultra autocannons in 2915​, DHS in 2865, ​the ER PPC as of 2860, Artemis IV disappears in 2855, and Ferro-Fibrous armor in 2810. 

How was Defiance Industries making the -5S and 5T ​Zeus​ using reportedly "extinct" technology up until 2898?  Something seems very, very wrong here.  Please review and clarify.

Or they were using existing stockpiles set aside for their Flagship, until they ran out? What we see in modern military ggear (admittedly usually with advancements, not downgrades) is a steady stream of modifications that get little or no official "designations" and then at various times, usually with a major change, a new model.  (M1A1 Abrams has had a ton of changes made that didn't really get noted by it's designation)

Out of Ferro Fibrous?  Switch the Line to standard.  Out of Artemis FCS (or more likely, the warheads)? Remove it, tuck another SHS in it's place.  Can't make an ER LLaser?  Use a std.  Few of those changes, individually would call for a new designation. I would say the DHS to SHS downgrade would be the most likely "change" point, from where the official 6S would step in.

Of course, all of that is counter to the original lore, which went from  PPC packing prototypes to production 6S, with no 5T or 5S in between.  But hey...why bother keeping continuity when we can retcon, instead!  (yes the sheer amount of unneeded retcons and variants added has me a bit salty)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 27 December 2016, 13:44:28
"Hoarding" mistakes - that is, not reporting them because they're in your favor - or rejecting direct developer input is generally considered poor form, and is just going to prolong arguments.

As I've no idea from where this information is taken, I cannot say what is/is not a mistake. There is no canon publication for many of them, outside of RATs. Which means that the data is either taken directly from a RAT, or from the developers'/authors' notes, or some other source which remains unpublished. Which is why I have not posted anything further. I'm not "hoarding" anything. Without more information on the MUL's sources, or feedback on the things I have posted, I cannot fact-check or post (possible) errors.

My follow-up question would then be, "what are the sources being used to determine availability?" Or, just narrowing it down for illustrative purposes; "what was the source of the Warhammer WHM-6Rb availability?" The answer to that would go a long way in helping me/others fact-check things and submit potential errors. :) If we don't know what sources are valid, how can we check them? 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 December 2016, 14:10:59
Quit the arguing before I start deleting posts.

This is for posting feedback about the MUL to the MUL team.  It's for a conversation between the MUL team and players, not players arguing with other players.  There's an entire forum outside of MUL feedback thread for that.

ColBosch, you're not on the MUL team any more.  I understand you had insight, but arguing with players is not something we want or need it.

TigerShark, 99% of the MUL information had to be made up.  There's often not a source, other than the MUL itself.  Feel free to point out if you think we missed a source that's contradictory, and ignore ColBosch. (And we'll get to your previous posts at some point, I'm just busy over the winter holidays so don't have the time to do the research yet that it deserves).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 27 December 2016, 14:36:22
TigerShark, 99% of the MUL information had to be made up. 

That helps a lot, actually. :) I've several I could post (Jihad-era) which make sense, based on that. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 December 2016, 20:53:50
TRO3039 p.66-67  **PDF version, "Corrected Second Printing"**
The weapons entry for the primary variant of the Vedette puts the MG in the turret; it doesn't mention where it should go for the others. (Intuitively, the MG is maintained throughout the other variants; only the primary weapon is weight-swapped).

Is it possible the [the Vedette's] Record Sheets were wrong?

**edit: source**

Yep, thanks.  Vedette AS card corrected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 December 2016, 21:00:44
I noticed the Whitworth WTH-1 isn't listed as available to the Star League during the Star League era even though TRO3039 (pg 126) description implies the variant was made at the request of Star League Defense Forces:

Star League Regular faction availability added for Star League era.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 December 2016, 21:03:25
Vulture MkIII "D" variant:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6275/vulture-mk-iii-d

Sources:
TRO3145_Clans p.41
RS3145_Unabridged p.454
AlphaStrike Companion (conversion process p.90-142)

Damage is currently listed as "5/5/3" for 39 PV.  I believe this is in error and should instead be "6/6/4" and 43 PV

2x clan RAC5 damage = 4.0/4.0/4/.0       [ASC table values p.108]
...with 60 shots per weapon (120 shots, or 6 tons of ammo combined), the damage should not be reduced by the Insufficient Ammo multiplier  [ASC p.101]
2x clan Medium Pulse damage = 1.54/1.54/-

Total Heat = 12(6)+8(4)+2(engine) = 22 total heat
Total Heat Dissipation = 24 (12 double heat sinks)
...since "24 > 22" there is no need to check for Overheat.  The unit is efficient.

Final damage should be 5.54/5.54/4.0 ~ 6/6/4
I have calculated a +4 increase in OFV, which should directly affect the PV of the unit.

Yep, I think they missed the ammo in the CT.  AS Card corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 December 2016, 21:08:10
Also the Hata-moto Chi, HTM-28T (Shin) variant needs to have someone look it over.  (I don't have the TRO, but, from the Record Sheet, there's a few things needing corrected).


Yeah, there's nothing in the TR saying what it has at all, so the RS is all there is.  AS Card corrected.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 December 2016, 21:10:49
The CPLT-K2 and ZEU-6S intro dates are still being reviewed.  If there's something else asked about that hasn't been responded to, feel free to bump, I may have lost it in the backlog.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maingunnery on 29 December 2016, 06:05:59
I found a mention of the 'HH-1 compact mobile shipyard' in Wars of Reaving (page 35).

Could this unit please be added to the MUL, with more details if possible?
Bump

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 30 December 2016, 00:05:05
Lynx LNX-9Q
This unit has the availability of "Lyran Commonwealth" during the Star League era. Their manufacturer (Blue Shot Weapons of Solaris VII), was under the control of the Free Worlds League at the time. (2765:FWLM, page 25) TRO:3058U gives the impression that Solaris was the only site for the LNX-9Q and that the chassis was not made on Loxley.

Suggestion
Free Worlds League, Lyran Commonwealth, Star League Regular, Star League Royal, Terran Hegemony

TRO:3058U, page 212
Quote
When Solaris VII factories were leveled during a House Marik raid in 2928, the surviving Lynx soon found themselves cannibalized for parts, and the line became extinct.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 03 January 2017, 00:06:04
Hellcat II HCT-212

Faction availability - the TRO states this ASF was available throughout the SW yet it does not have an entry for late SW (both). I would suggest it should have the same availability as for early SW.

I would also suggest an odd example here or there would be available to mercenary groups
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 03 January 2017, 08:57:58
The Dig King RCL-1M MiningMech MOD has in introduction date of 2573, the same year as the base model.  The Era is listed as "Early Succession War."

The Carbine CON-7M ConstructionMech MOD is listed but there is no entry for the original CON-1 Carbine released in 2691.  This information is clearly stated in the TRO Vehicle Annex.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 03 January 2017, 10:41:52
Hellcat II hasn't been reviewed at all for LSW era faction data. I don't think any of that TRO has to be honest. We are currently trying to finished up the post jihad eras before finishing up the LSW. We also need clan data to go with ESW and LSW. I think that era is about 25% done.

I suspect the dig king mod has a wrong date. ESW seems to be when the MODs started appearing in general.

There is an entry for the Carbine -1. It appears to have been in the original set of data from when the MUL was set up. A search for Carbine brings it up for me.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Savage Coyote on 13 January 2017, 08:40:07
I was digging around the Arctic Wolf II and noticed that it was only available to Wolves in Exile and Kell Hounds through three eras.  It does appear in the Sea Foxes RAT table in FM3145 (pg 219.)  I know RATs are the end-all-be-all on what a faction can field, but if it appears in a RAT, would a faction have enough of them to make the MUL as well?

I searched to see if this had come up with this unit but couldn't find anything.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 13 January 2017, 10:30:17
I was digging around the Arctic Wolf II and noticed that it was only available to Wolves in Exile and Kell Hounds through three eras.  It does appear in the Sea Foxes RAT table in FM3145 (pg 219.)  I know RATs are the end-all-be-all on what a faction can field, but if it appears in a RAT, would a faction have enough of them to make the MUL as well?

I searched to see if this had come up with this unit but couldn't find anything.  Thanks!
Added Lyrans and Clan Sea Fox for Late Republic and Dark Ages availabilities.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starbuck on 15 January 2017, 08:45:34
STINGER  STG-5G

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3062/stinger-stg-5g

should not have an OV 1

it has only one weapon, a light PPC with capacitor, and 10 DHS (according to RS3085 PP, and i checked the errata thread whether it are DHS or SHS).
even with single HS it could not overheat (11 heat build-up vs. 10 heat dissipation), so it should be corrected to OV 0 and PV 13 (it loses one point in the calculation for OV value).

(and btw, it would be impossible, even with AS conversion up-rounding all weapon damage, to deal 2 damage points with only a light PPC w/ capacitor.  ;) )

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bren on 25 January 2017, 16:12:15
I could easily be missing something here, but I was wondering about the Faction Availability of the Rifleman IIC 8 and 5;

Of the IIC 8 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2717/rifleman-iic-8 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2717/rifleman-iic-8)) TRO3085 says:
"This variant appeared in forces from all three Clans who soiled New Earth with their presence ... Though offered to all Inner Sphere factions, prior to 3080 the IIC 8 only appeared with the Sharks, Wolves, Falcons, Bears and AFFS. Since then, the DCMS and Duchy of Oriente have both aquired the design in small numbers."

This doesn't seem to agree with what's in the MUL for the Rifleman IIC 8.

Of the Rifleman IIC 5 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2714/rifleman-iic-5 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2714/rifleman-iic-5)), TRO3085 continues:
"In a futile attempt to confuse us, the putrid Falcons deployed a second variant of the Rifleman IIC ... The second variant identified by the Blakists is the IIC 5."

This is presumably the Rifleman IIC refit the Jade Falcons have coming out of Red Devil Industries on Pandora, but as per the MUL, it is not available to the Falcons but is available to a host of factions that the Falcons generally wouldn't trade with (trade of the merchant or warrior caste variety). I think the IIC 5 was mistakenly thought to have come from the Diamond Shark line on Twycross in the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 26 January 2017, 00:10:06
Constable Pacification Suit (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=constable)

The MUL restricts availability to the Rasalhague Dominion.   According to its source material:

Quote from: TRO:3145 The Clans
Despite its preliminary stigma as being
of Dominion manufacture, the suit went on to
see service in the Draconis Combine with ISF
agents and the occasional Civilian Guidance
Corps emergency response team.

The source goes on to give an example of a notable ISF operation making use of the suits, and one of the two notable pilots is a Combine agent.

According to the fluff, even though there's no evidence of its use by the actual military, the paramilitaries of the Combine seem to make notable use of suit, even if it may or may not be widespread use by those paramilitaries.  Should Draconis Combine availability be added?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 26 January 2017, 13:15:53
The CPLT-K2 and ZEU-6S intro dates are still being reviewed.  If there's something else asked about that hasn't been responded to, feel free to bump, I may have lost it in the backlog.
Thanks.

Any movement on this question?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 January 2017, 13:15:52
Karhu C - http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1750/karhu-c

Per AlphaStrike Companion Conversion p.90-142
Per TRO3085 p.163, "Weapon Configuration C"

"HT2/2/2" should not be available to this variant, as Clan Plasma Cannons are not present on the equipment list in the TRO.
All other stats appear accurate (Armor, Movement, Damage, and applicable Specials).

The omission of the HT special should reduce the OFV by 2.5 (I calculated the total PV to be 42.25, which rounds normally [down] to 42).



Upon consorting with the Record Sheets (3085_Cutting Edge p.229-233) the "C" configuration has replaced the "Prime" configuration found in the TRO.  Also, the allocation of some of the "fixed" Critical Slots do not conform to the TRO.  Information was made known in the individual Errata thread (3085) but the info is dated, and does not read like any adjustments were made [to either the TRO or Record Sheets].

I have a proposed "fix" for the Record Sheets, but am holding to see what transpires in the other errata threads.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 January 2017, 13:49:16
Karhu C fixed to match TRO as the RS 3085 errata says to use the TRO stats.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 January 2017, 14:23:41
Not to be rude, but the previous version (with the HT2/2/2) was 45 PV (44.75, rounded up)
The corrected version should be 42 PV (44.75 - 2.5 = 42.25). 

OFV = 17
. (4+4+4+3 damage + 1.5 size + 0 overheat + 0.5 MEL special)
DFV = 25.25
. DIR + MF
. . DIR = [(7*2) + 4] x [1+(3 tmm/10)] ~ 23.4, or 23.5 (round, nearest half)
. . MF = 10/8 + 0.5 jump = 1.25 + 0.5 = 1.75
GFB = +0
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 January 2017, 15:04:56
. . DIR = [(7*2) + 4] x [1+(3 tmm/10)] ~ 23.4, or 23.5 (round, nearest half)

TMM is 2, not 3? Only infantry include the +1 for jump now, as of v1.1 errata.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 January 2017, 15:20:11
My apologies-- I missed the v1.1 errata to the DIR calculation (40 would be correct).

Odd.  When (or rather, *why*) did that change?  (link discussion, if available to public?)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 27 January 2017, 20:08:08
It changed because when the PV system was first written jumping was a mandatory movement mode (i.e. it repalced ground movement completely) and only offered a +1 attack penalty.  In the process of Alpha Strike's development, jumping became an option but also the attack penalty rose to +2.  At that point I felt it was unfair for a guy to be charged as if they were jumping all the time when making attacks, because not only did they not have to, they probably weren't if they wanted to hit something.

Infantry still pay because they don't get the attack penalty when jumping.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 January 2017, 23:54:57
It changed because when the PV system was first written jumping was a mandatory movement mode (i.e. it replaced ground movement completely) and only offered a +1 attack penalty.

Small correction, jumping in the 1st printing had no attacker penalty.  They got a +1 target modifier for being jump capable (which led to errata clarifying that the unit had to actually use  jump movement to get the +1 for jumping), but there was no penalty to attacks by a jumping unit.  The ASC/2nd printing jumped (oops, sorry for the pun) directly to a +2 attacker modifier for jumping.

So the original PV was based on a "free" +1 target movement modifier with no penalty.  It was clearly beneficial.  A +2 to attacks penalty to get a +1 when targeted is much less clearly beneficial.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 28 January 2017, 23:19:25
I suppose I can see both your points...

Without meaning to discuss the matter, I'm concerned that the ability to jump was always held a distinctive tactical value over units incapable of jumping, (which is why I assumed it was in the Defense Factor calculations to begin with).

Is there some other way to pay for jump capability?

Jumping while suffering Overheat, for instance.  Those with heat levels 1-3 can still jump their full [jump] movement, while units that lack jump capability must hobble/standstill until they cool off [in this case, purely a defensive tactic]

And what about units equipped with Partial Wings and Improved Jump Jets whose [jump] movement often expands into the next bracket? (6"/10"j goes from +1 to +3 total TMM when jumping).  The movement modifiers usually offset the attack penalty (+2 TMM,+2 TN) while controlling/threatening more ground area [both offensive and defensive tactical].
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 29 January 2017, 00:30:38
Jumping does add a movement factor.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 31 January 2017, 07:56:11
TRO 3039 page 58 states the Machine Gun variant of the Goblin is a "rare Kurita variant".  The MUL lists no Draconis Combine availability for this variant after the Early Succession War era (where it's IS General, Mercenary, and Periphery General): http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1224/goblin-medium-tank-mg

Curiously, the SRM variant of the Goblin is listed with exclusive Draconis Combine (and Rasalhague, during its existence) availability after the Early Succession War era: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1225/goblin-medium-tank-srm

It appears the two variants were confused at some point with regard to their availability.  Recommend adding Draconis Combine/Rasalhague availability to the MG variant, and wider availability to the SRM variant (which isn't characterized as a "Kurita" variant).  The Combine already has access to the base and LRM variants.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 01 February 2017, 14:10:23
are the Trooper TP-1R from Primitives Vol 5 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7407/trooper-tp-1r) and the Trooper TRP-1 metioned in the Flea writeup in TRO 3039 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5301/trooper-trp-1) discrete designs, or does the new TP-1R make the TRP-1 a redudant entry?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: theagent on 03 February 2017, 02:10:21
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/748/crusader-crd-2r

Something I just noticed (& brought up in my post http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56239.0 (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56239.0)).  I'm not 100% sure about the Alpha Strike calculations for the CRD-2R.

It's possible that it's just because of a carryover from the BattleForce calculations (at least from what Solaris Skunk Werks says should be the BattleForce figures), or perhaps I'm just reading Alpha Strike Companion wrong, but I think the Attack Values and Overheat value might be off.

From what I can tell from the tables, Base damage (before adjusting for heat) should be:


Maximum heat should be 26 (5x2=10 for LRMs, 2x4=8 for Streaks, 3x2=6 for MLs, & 2 for Movement; 10 + 8 + 6 + 2 = 26).  Heat dissipation is 20 (10 double heat sinks).  The formula in ASC (p. 115) says Heat Modified Damage is Base Damage x Heat Dissipation / (Max Heat -4); or, in this case, Heat Modified Damage = Base Damage x 20 / 22.  When I plug that into the calculator, I get:

For the CRD-2R, the Defensive Points are 18.7 (6x2 = 12 for Armor, 5x1 = 5 for Structure, 12 + 5 = 17; TMM = 1; DIR = 1 + (1/10) = 1.1; 17 x 1.1 = 18.7).  The Offensive Points, however, are now 20.5:  4 (S) + 5x2 (M) + 3 (L) + 2 (IF2) + 1.5 (SZ 3, 3/2) = 4 + 10 + 3 + 2 + 1.5 = 20.5.  Added together, I get 20.5 + 18.7 = 39.2, rounded down to 39 (1 point higher than the 38 listed on the Alpha Strike card).

Did I miscalculate somewhere, or is this a real error on the card?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 February 2017, 06:50:19
The Crusader is penalized for only having 8 rounds of ammo per LDM launcherz
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: theagent on 03 February 2017, 15:47:50
The Crusader is penalized for only having 8 rounds of ammo per LDM launcherz

(Smacks self in head)

Right... I'd forgotten about that. And that's why they don't have the LRM special as well?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 February 2017, 16:09:35
(Smacks self in head)

Right... I'd forgotten about that. And that's why they don't have the LRM special as well?

That's due to the Artemis.  Artemis equipped units, in AS/BF, can only use Artemis rounds, so they don't get the LRM to use alternative munitions.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 05 February 2017, 08:26:31
Perhaps this has been addressed, but the MUL lists the BJ3 with a 3042 introductory date, but the mech itself was first debuted in the Fourth Succession War Battlepack?  I have not been able to obtain a copy of this Battlepack to confirm, though.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 February 2017, 12:49:05
Perhaps this has been addressed, but the MUL lists the BJ3 with a 3042 introductory date, but the mech itself was first debuted in the Fourth Succession War Battlepack?  I have not been able to obtain a copy of this Battlepack to confirm, though.

it was in the 4thSW Battlepack, yes (writeup on pg 38)

(http://puu.sh/tPGmM/b1a85db363.png)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 05 February 2017, 13:11:17
That variant is also mentioned in TRO 3039 (page 128) as being from the "3030's".
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 05 February 2017, 14:07:00
it was in the 4thSW Battlepack, yes (writeup on pg 38)
That variant is also mentioned in TRO 3039 (page 128) as being from the "3030's".

Those are prototypes, not production models.  Double heat sink production was not re-started until 3040 according to TechManual. This appears to be the limiting factor of the design.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 05 February 2017, 14:14:14
So the 3042 version has 10(20) heat sinks vice 10(13)?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 05 February 2017, 14:52:54
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3831/blackjack-bj-3x

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: skiltao on 05 February 2017, 15:42:46
Perhaps this has been addressed, but the MUL lists the BJ3 with a 3042 introductory date, but the mech itself was first debuted in the Fourth Succession War Battlepack?  I have not been able to obtain a copy of this Battlepack to confirm, though.

Actually, it first debuted in Objective Raids (page 149) as an evolution of the BJ-2.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 05 February 2017, 16:22:31
Actually, it first debuted in Objective Raids (page 149) as an evolution of the BJ-2.
Which makes sense from a nomenclature standpoint.. but since the BJ2 was produced in 3052, and the BJ3 was in various guises produced during the 4th Succession War and full production apparently in 3042... the designation doesn't really make sense... but what can you do?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 05 February 2017, 16:27:10
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3831/blackjack-bj-3x

thank you! Are there record sheets anywhere?  This is literally the only reference I have ever seen to a 3X.. the rest just list the BJ3 as being the first mech to enter production with DHS, apparently the corrosive ones, originally. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 February 2017, 16:39:11
i presume the BJ-3X is referenced obliquely in this paragraph from TRO:3039... though the intro date of 3029 on the MUL muddles things.

Quote from: TRO: 3039 pg. 128
In the 3030s, the St. Ives Compact experimented with
recovered technology on some of their Blackjacks. One prototype
that showed great promise replace the autocannon
and one heat sink with a pair of Ceres Arms Smasher PPCs.
Three of the remaining heat sinks were replaced with experimental
“freezer” double efficiency units.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 05 February 2017, 16:46:03
thank you! Are there record sheets anywhere?
He originally posted in the wrong thread. There's only a quote left.
Quote
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3831/blackjack-bj-3x
The BJ-3 with all double heat sinks could not have existed that early.  So we created a BJ-3X that was a step toward the 3. It has not received a record sheet yet.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55482.msg1293852#msg1293852
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 05 February 2017, 16:59:00
He originally posted in the wrong thread. There's only a quote left.http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55482.msg1293852#msg1293852

Ah, OK, so this is a "new canon" stopgap fix, basically?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 05 February 2017, 17:27:36
Yes, the "old" canon was contradictory.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: The_Livewire on 06 February 2017, 12:43:44
I apologize if I'm late or missed a comment.  If I did I couldn't find it.

Should Davion have access to the 3050 Clan omnis in the Jihad era?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 06 February 2017, 17:00:31
Not all of them but most of them. Davion is part of the IS General list.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 06 February 2017, 17:36:25
The availability trajectory makes sense if you imagine the 3050 omnis as battle salvage.  By the Jihad everyone has accumulated a good bit of Clan salvage thanks to Revival, Bulldog,  and Serpent.  But chronic borderjumping raids don't maintain that windall, and availability peters back out for the IS as time advances.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starbuck on 07 February 2017, 15:21:22
BEAR CUB (Standard)

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/314/bear-cub-standard

should not have long range damage value of 1

its only long range weapon is a lrm5, converts with 0.3 points of damage, which qualify for a long range damage of 0*

(sources: TRO3075 and SSW)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starbuck on 07 February 2017, 16:47:45
and again the KARHU.
the discussion and correction of the KARHU C (now PV 40) on the previous page made me wonder why the KARHU A costs 44 points.
compared to the C it lacks the melee weapon but adds 1 damage point at long range and an IF1. this should not be a 4 point difference.

KARHU A
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1748/karhu-a

offensive value
4+4+4+4 damage +1.5 size +1 IF1 = 18.5

defensive value
   MF = 10/8 + 0.5 jump = 1.25 + 0.5 = 1.75
   DIR = [(7*2) + 4] x [1+(2 tmm/10)] = 21.6, rounded to nearest half  = 21.5

   Defensive Value: 21.5 + 1.75 = 23.25

Final Point Value = 18.5 + 23.25 = 41.75

so the PV of the KARHU A should be 42.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 07 February 2017, 16:56:51
The Karhu A is jump-capable.  Using the current rules, that gives it a further +1 defence mod, for a 1.3 multiplier, not a 1.2.

The PV revision would remove that, but it's not finalized as of yet and so hasn't been implemented in the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starbuck on 07 February 2017, 17:18:52
The Karhu A is jump-capable.  Using the current rules, that gives it a further +1 defence mod, for a 1.3 multiplier, not a 1.2.

The PV revision would remove that, but it's not finalized as of yet and so hasn't been implemented in the MUL.

i dont think so.
according to errata v1.1 for ASC the additional +1 is for jump-capable infantry, so the multiplier of 1.2 should be correct.
see also GoldBishops math and Nckestrels answer/correction to it:


. . DIR = [(7*2) + 4] x [1+(3 tmm/10)] ~ 23.4, or 23.5 (round, nearest half)

TMM is 2, not 3? Only infantry include the +1 for jump now, as of v1.1 errata.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 09 February 2017, 21:28:24
@Starbuck - the ASC v1.1 Errata is found here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=40232.msg928691#msg928691

The change for calculating the Defensive Interaction Rating (DIR) is located on p.12 of the Errata, and reads as thus:
 
Quote from: ASC Errata v1.1
Defense Factor Modifiers Table (Ground Units) (p. 140)
1) Under “Unit’s Best Move Rate”
Unit is Jump-Capable
Change to:
Unit is Jump-Capable Infantry

...Since the Karhu is *not* Infantry, only its best movement is used to determine the multiplier (10", or +2).  I did not go back and correct my calculations; if I mislead you, please forgive me - mine are not official calculations.

Do note that it's my understanding that Jump-capable units still pay for Jump movement in the Movement Factor (MF)... but that's it.  (I sympathize if you feel this value is under-costed to jump-capable 'mechs, but this is not the thread to voice such a complaint).

Another note: the whole of the MUL is still in need of this (v1.1) update; many of the values, while unchecked, will be calculated slightly off (as of 9-Feb-2017, units are more expensive by about 1-2 PV depending on the unit).  One could assume that once the Heat Modification section is finalized, we'll see the "update" ripple through the MUL.  (I'm not privy to their time tables, so we can only guess).

**EDIT** I can confirm the reduced cost to the Karhu "A" (44 to 42) "B" (47 to 45) and G (48 to 46)... but again, these should come after the v.1.1 screens units off the MUL en masse.  (Mine are still unofficial calculations; I'm just a friendly calculating spectator)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starbuck on 10 February 2017, 14:20:50
@GoldBishop

you did not mislead me at all.

i have the errata, but haven't looked thoroughly into conversion and calculating PV changes.
if you hadn't brought up the Karhu issue i would not have noticed the change in calculating the DIR.

and as you stated, it seems that a lot - if not all - jump-capable mechs are still calculated using the old (and now obsolete) formula.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: FrozenIceman on 12 February 2017, 23:22:34
All MUL entries for Infantry (as well as all TRO)'s are now drastically different due to Tech Manual Errata 3.0 changing and replacing nearly all BV and Damage Calculations for infantry weapons.

See an example of change impact to Heavy Jump Infantry (TRO 3085)

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=5884.msg1296048#msg1296048

I did check the standard weapons as well.  Rifle, LRM, SRM, and Flamer have all been changed, meaning any units (nearly all of them) that use those weapons are now incorrect in both damage output and BV in the entire MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 14 February 2017, 09:35:13
TI-1A Titan has a MUL date of 2787.
TRO: 3075 pg. 94 gives a prototype date of 2765 and references General Aleksandr Kerensky.

FFL-4A Firefly has a MUL date of 2801 and even the oldest Firefly mode, the FFL-2SLE, has a date of 2790
Operation Klondike pg. 164 clearly states the Firefly was a mainstay of the SLDF and introduced in the "27th century."

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 14 February 2017, 09:37:23
The CPLT-K2 and ZEU-6S intro dates are still being reviewed.  If there's something else asked about that hasn't been responded to, feel free to bump, I may have lost it in the backlog.
Thanks.

Ping!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 24 February 2017, 17:34:27
This one seems tied into the introduction of the snub-nosed PPC, which may require errata in its own right. However, given the data we have:

Falcon FLC-4Nb
The current fluff states that the Falcon was put into production with the remaining factories of the Rim Worlds Republic, namely Roe Weapon Systems of Apollo. This would have to have been done during the SLDF occupation. This puts the date of the FLC-4Nb no earlier than 2770 (conquest of Apollo) and no later than 2772, when Kerensky's troops departed the Republic. (LoT, pp 109-110) My suggested date would be 2770, since it states these were "rushed into production." But in reality, it could have been any time up to the launch of ALMARIC.

This would mean that an FLC-4N production facility existed on Apollo prior to this date. Unless the unlikely scenario exists where General Kerensky has a Falcon factory built from scratch out of a Roe Weapons Systems aerospace plant. So the FLC-4N should probably be added to the RWR Home Guard availability. Also, seems like there was some kind of upgrade done to the plant, if it existed. Seems a little strange that an Endo Steel frame would be readily available for a rushed unit. Feels like there should be another unit here preceding the -4Nb, like the FLC-4Nb-PP2 config. (I know that's not canon--just my impression from the timeline and the logical chain of events).

Phoenix Hawk PXH-1c
Going off of the FLC-4Nb fluff, the PXH-1c is said to come first: "Equipped with the prototype Snub-Nosed PPC first deployed in
the PHX-1c Phoenix Hawk.." (Op:Klondike, p. 163) This suggests that the Phoenix Hawk's upgrade came first. Given that Kerensky's Orion custom came in at 2754, this should be much earlier than 2784, possibly just inserting the Kerensky date of 2754.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 25 February 2017, 02:11:35
Firestarter FS9-K
THE MUL has this mech extinct since the 1st SW (and then available to only Liao) yet the description seems to indicate it was in production by the Lyrans but not as prolific as the base model and would certainly be more numerous than the 'Mirage'.

Can this be reviewed for canonicity?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 25 February 2017, 13:33:31
The only data we were able to find on the FS9-K was that it was not produced for long in the LC; it was overshadowed by the FS9-H; and the only reference to it at all was in the Liao Field Report. We assumed that some were sold to all of the great houses but that they all turned them down with the run being dumped off on Liao for one reason or another.

Not exactly the best information to work with on that one.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 26 February 2017, 02:08:05
thanks cavingjan; it certainly sounds as though there is limited information. Could I suggest that its not unlike the Whitworth and therefore a lot of these machines went into the open market and given it had more than the one year of production versus the 'Mirage' it would be more common and you could have quite a few in private hands. Given the availability of parts it would be safe to assume these survived. I would also like to think that it's not unlike the Blackjack in that mech warriors figured out over time that the bad reputation was unjustified???
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 04 March 2017, 14:27:14
Sprite [Standard]
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5109/sprite-ultraheavy-protomech-standard

Conversion information and tables per AlphaStrike Companion p.90-141 {errata noted}
Stats from Wars of Reaving - Supplemental p.50

OFV = 9.5
DFV = 8.25 {8.75 pre-Jump errata}
GFB = 0

Total PV = 17.75 {18.25} or 18; currently listed as 20

Sprite [2]
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5636/sprite-ultraheavy-protomech-2

per Wars of Reaving - Supplemental p.51...
Units are missing "LTAG" among listed specials
{No apparent increase in cost when compiled with latest Jump-capable errata}

**disregard; I found the errata**
Title: Exterminator
Post by: TigerShark on 08 March 2017, 18:02:43
Exterminator EXT-4D

Current: SLDF, Royal Divisions, RWA/AEAF Terran Corps
Suggested: IS General, SLDF, Royal Divisions, RWA/AEAF Terran Corps

Why? The EXT-4D came out in 2620. 10 years later, the stealth version (EXT-4C) came out. The -4D has no restricted technologies whatsoever. The XLE and AMS were pieces of equipment on units which were sold as SLDF surplus to Member States (and the Periphery). It doesn't even have a Guardian ECM Suite or Active Probe.

Seems to me like the EXT-4D was the "consumer-grade" model, sold off to prospective buyers, while the EXT-4C and SPR-4F were kept as Royal-exclusive, fulfilling the mission of "seek-and-destroy". That would explain its appearance in Great House RATs and the sheer numbers surviving into the early Succession Wars. Had it been SLDF / HAF exclusive, most (if not all) of the advanced units (i.e: Devastator, Nightstar, Spector, etc.) would have been destroyed during the drive for Terra or evacuated on the Exodus. The standard models (EXT-4D) would probably be left behind; and they were.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alfaryn on 09 March 2017, 07:39:39
Trooper TRP-1 and Trooper TP-1R

Trooper (no exact designation) is mentioned in TRO 3039 (on p. 242) as an original name for a 'Mech, that later become known as Flea. The MUL lists Trooper TRP-1 as a 'Mech from TRO 3039, but lists no official record sheet for it. There is also Trooper TRP-1R in the MUL from XTRO Primitives V. Both TRP-1 and TRP-1R have the same introduction date (2475).

I don't own XTRO Primitives V, so I can't be 100% certain, but I suspect, that TRP-1 and TRP-1R are supposed to be the same 'Mech variant (XTRO Primitives V provides official stats for the 'Mech mentioned in TRO 3039) in which case one of the MUL entries needs to be removed.

Recommendation - remove the Trooper with designation not matching the XTRO (Trooper TRP-1 most likely) from the MUL, unless Trooper TRP-1 and Trooper TP-1R are indeed meant to be two different models.

EDIT: Strange thing... When I look for the Trooper in MUL by name, the TRP-1 variant is not listed, but when I list all TRO 3039 units by source - it is there. A leftover after removal somehow done incorrectly, perhaps?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 March 2017, 10:02:17
Per the TRO:3075 errata doc, the Von Rohrs (Hebis) should be changed to Von Rohrs (Hebi)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alfaryn on 09 March 2017, 19:55:37
The Trooper TRP-1 and Trooper TP-1R situation (described two posts above) seems to be mostly resolved, but they still link to each other as "Other Models". Other than that I must say I'm pleasantly surprised, that MUL maintainers react so quickly to errata reports. Good job guys.

Edit: Huh? I could swear, that when I wrote this post the TRP-1 was removed from the list of units in TRO 3039, but it appears to be back there again.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 March 2017, 23:46:11
I reported the same issue a month or so ago. They generally fix errors in fairly short order. If something isn't attended to, I suspect there is some internal conversation that takes place.

If you search for units and uncheck the 'Only units w/Battle Value' box, the mysterious TRP-1 reappears
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pheonixstorm on 10 March 2017, 02:41:45
Source: TRO 3050
Issue: Wrong Era icon
Affects:
Ripper Infantry Transport (Infantry) - shows Civil War, intro is Jihad
Puma Assault Tank PAT-007 - shows Civil War, intro is Jihad
Assassin ASN-30 - shows Clan Invasion, intro is Civil War
Ahab AHB-643 - shows Clan Invasion, intro is Civil War
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 10 March 2017, 15:22:27
Unit: the Dragon-5nr (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/912/dragon-drg-5nr).

Issue: It has a C3 slave but lacks the C3S and MQ1 specials.  I did not compute PV to see if it already reflects the C3.  I suspect it does not, though.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 11 March 2017, 18:05:47
Unit: the Dragon-5nr (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/912/dragon-drg-5nr).

Issue: It has a C3 slave but lacks the C3S and MQ1 specials.  I did not compute PV to see if it already reflects the C3.  I suspect it does not, though.

I did some fiddling with a builder program, and adding the C3Slave would put the Dragon -5Nr overweight by 1 ton.
However, it looks like the Record Sheet (RS3085_ONN p.88) is in error, as the TRO entry upgrade for the Dragon (3085, p.190) does not mention an Artemis upgrade to the LRMs.

Dropping Artemis for the C3 Slave would make up for that that 1-ton difference. (record sheet needs the errata).

As far as "PV" calcs?  No real change in damage, so once the Record Sheet Errata goes through, I suppose the following...
OFV = ~12.5
DFV = 19.25
GFB = 1.0
Total = 32.75 ~ 33 PV
Specials: CASE, C3S, MHQ1, IF1
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 13 March 2017, 23:43:10
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2033/marauder-mad-1r

Page 10 of the Field Report 2765 Periphery states that "Beginning in 2753, MMM also began production of the MAD-1R Marauder under a contract with the Free Worlds League that allows the MAF to receive twenty-five percent of each production runs. This has added hundreds of Marauders to the otherwise underweight MAF BattleMech forces."

So under the Star League era, the Magistracy of Canopus should be added to the list of users, and I'd suggest that since "hundreds" existed in the MAF, that even with the loses of the Periphery Uprising, it should still be around in noticeable numbers for part of the First Succession War. Thus it should be listed as available to the MoC during the First Succession War as well (the 1st Succession War RAT backs this up, though that's not the greatest source, I know).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: DarkJaguar on 23 March 2017, 00:02:50
According to TRO 3145, the Vulture MKIII should have the VRT (Variable Range Targeting) special ability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 25 March 2017, 08:48:03
Just checking in to rattle the cage around the CPLT-K2 Catapult intro date question/debate, figuring it has been some time, and hoping it was not lost in the shuffle.  It shan't be appearing in HBS's upcoming Battletech game, regardless, but for personal sanity, am hoping to see it restored to it's proper pre 3025 introduction date.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 25 March 2017, 10:59:13
It will be pre-3025: that's guaranteed.  It's just a matter of nailing down the exact date.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 25 March 2017, 20:27:13
It will be pre-3025: that's guaranteed.  It's just a matter of nailing down the exact date.

heck, just having that confirmed is a huge weight off. Lurf mah K2s!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 26 March 2017, 06:41:14
Any update on the Firefly?

FFL-4A Firefly has a MUL date of 2801 and even the oldest Firefly model, the FFL-2SLE, has a date of 2790

Operation Klondike pg. 164 clearly states the Firefly was a mainstay of the SLDF and introduced in the "27th century."
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 26 March 2017, 12:06:41
Any update on the Firefly?

FFL-4A Firefly has a MUL date of 2801 and even the oldest Firefly model, the FFL-2SLE, has a date of 2790

Operation Klondike pg. 164 clearly states the Firefly was a mainstay of the SLDF and introduced in the "27th century."

Look up the FFL-3A. It doesn't have a Battle Value listed in the MUL, but it's the first one introduced [2679]. The BV would be 797.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 28 March 2017, 09:40:00
Where's the record sheet on that one?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 March 2017, 12:03:51
Where's the record sheet on that one?

There isn't one.  It was described but no record sheet.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 31 March 2017, 15:09:15
What is the status of things like the Roughneck from MWO?  We keep hearing Randall Bills has declared them canon, was curious if that considered so, or only after/if they are actually added to a "paper" CGL supplement? Also how this affects the unique "hero" versions of mechs?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 07:52:38
DRG-5Nr fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 07:56:25
According to TRO 3145, the Vulture MKIII should have the VRT (Variable Range Targeting) special ability.

The MUL isn't showing quirks for any units, we're not going to just do one.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 07:58:26
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2033/marauder-mad-1r

Page 10 of the Field Report 2765 Periphery states that "Beginning in 2753, MMM also began production of the MAD-1R Marauder under a contract with the Free Worlds League that allows the MAF to receive twenty-five percent of each production runs. This has added hundreds of Marauders to the otherwise underweight MAF BattleMech forces."

So under the Star League era, the Magistracy of Canopus should be added to the list of users, and I'd suggest that since "hundreds" existed in the MAF, that even with the loses of the Periphery Uprising, it should still be around in noticeable numbers for part of the First Succession War. Thus it should be listed as available to the MoC during the First Succession War as well (the 1st Succession War RAT backs this up, though that's not the greatest source, I know).

MAD-1R adjusted, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 08:04:29
CPLT-K2 updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 08:07:01
Source: TRO 3050
Issue: Wrong Era icon
Affects:
Ripper Infantry Transport (Infantry) - shows Civil War, intro is Jihad
Puma Assault Tank PAT-007 - shows Civil War, intro is Jihad
Assassin ASN-30 - shows Clan Invasion, intro is Civil War
Ahab AHB-643 - shows Clan Invasion, intro is Civil War

Updated, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 08:09:09
Duplicate Trooper deleted.
The older entry didn't have a BV, so it didn't show up in some searches that automatically have "only units w/Battle Value" selected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 08:50:29
TI-1A Titan has a MUL date of 2787.
TRO: 3075 pg. 94 gives a prototype date of 2765 and references General Aleksandr Kerensky.
Updated, thanks.
Quote
FFL-4A Firefly has a MUL date of 2801 and even the oldest Firefly mode, the FFL-2SLE, has a date of 2790
Operation Klondike pg. 164 clearly states the Firefly was a mainstay of the SLDF and introduced in the "27th century."
FFL-3A was the SLDF model.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 08:55:10
BEAR CUB (Standard)

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/314/bear-cub-standard

should not have long range damage value of 1

its only long range weapon is a lrm5, converts with 0.3 points of damage, which qualify for a long range damage of 0*

(sources: TRO3075 and SSW)

Bear Cub updated, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 09:07:08
TRO 3039 page 58 states the Machine Gun variant of the Goblin is a "rare Kurita variant".  The MUL lists no Draconis Combine availability for this variant after the Early Succession War era (where it's IS General, Mercenary, and Periphery General): http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1224/goblin-medium-tank-mg

Curiously, the SRM variant of the Goblin is listed with exclusive Draconis Combine (and Rasalhague, during its existence) availability after the Early Succession War era: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1225/goblin-medium-tank-srm

It appears the two variants were confused at some point with regard to their availability.  Recommend adding Draconis Combine/Rasalhague availability to the MG variant, and wider availability to the SRM variant (which isn't characterized as a "Kurita" variant).  The Combine already has access to the base and LRM variants.

Goblin MG updated to being DC (and FRR), Goblin SRM updated to match Goblin LRM.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 09:11:23
Constable Pacification Suit (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=constable)

The MUL restricts availability to the Rasalhague Dominion.   According to its source material:

The source goes on to give an example of a notable ISF operation making use of the suits, and one of the two notable pilots is a Combine agent.

According to the fluff, even though there's no evidence of its use by the actual military, the paramilitaries of the Combine seem to make notable use of suit, even if it may or may not be widespread use by those paramilitaries.  Should Draconis Combine availability be added?
Yep, DC added for Constable suits. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 09:28:55
I could easily be missing something here, but I was wondering about the Faction Availability of the Rifleman IIC 8 and 5;

Of the IIC 8 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2717/rifleman-iic-8 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2717/rifleman-iic-8)) TRO3085 says:
"This variant appeared in forces from all three Clans who soiled New Earth with their presence ... Though offered to all Inner Sphere factions, prior to 3080 the IIC 8 only appeared with the Sharks, Wolves, Falcons, Bears and AFFS. Since then, the DCMS and Duchy of Oriente have both aquired the design in small numbers."

This doesn't seem to agree with what's in the MUL for the Rifleman IIC 8.
correct, adjusted.

Quote
Of the Rifleman IIC 5 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2714/rifleman-iic-5 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2714/rifleman-iic-5)), TRO3085 continues:
"In a futile attempt to confuse us, the putrid Falcons deployed a second variant of the Rifleman IIC ... The second variant identified by the Blakists is the IIC 5."

This is presumably the Rifleman IIC refit the Jade Falcons have coming out of Red Devil Industries on Pandora, but as per the MUL, it is not available to the Falcons but is available to a host of factions that the Falcons generally wouldn't trade with (trade of the merchant or warrior caste variety). I think the IIC 5 was mistakenly thought to have come from the Diamond Shark line on Twycross in the MUL.

http://www.battlecorps.com/BC2/news.html?article=258 specifically states the IIC 5 is Diamond Shark.  But you are correct that TR3085 makes it clear the Falcons used it as well, and our production notes have both CJF and CDS making it.  Adding CJF.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 09:31:04
STINGER  STG-5G

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3062/stinger-stg-5g

should not have an OV 1

it has only one weapon, a light PPC with capacitor, and 10 DHS (according to RS3085 PP, and i checked the errata thread whether it are DHS or SHS).
even with single HS it could not overheat (11 heat build-up vs. 10 heat dissipation), so it should be corrected to OV 0 and PV 13 (it loses one point in the calculation for OV value).

(and btw, it would be impossible, even with AS conversion up-rounding all weapon damage, to deal 2 damage points with only a light PPC w/ capacitor.  ;) )

Fixed, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 03 April 2017, 11:38:22
The MUL isn't showing quirks for any units, we're not going to just do one.

The problem with VRT is that it actually affects PV as a Special mentioned in the conversion rules.  This makes it unique among quirks, and probably warrants inclusion as an exception.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 03 April 2017, 12:06:58
Do you add the cost to the base unit with a note to reduce the cost if you aren't playing with the optional quirks rules or do you just add a note with the additional costs if you are playing with those additional quirk rules. There is no place other than notes to show quirks so it wouldn't be on the card as the MUL is currently designed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 03 April 2017, 12:17:01
Cost the unit appropriately.  The Special is defined in the usual place; I suggest the exception to be treat VRT as always in play.  That, or remove it from being a Special and the conversion rules entirely.  Given how much easier it is to edit the MUL than it is to issue errata for a book that most people might realize had changed, my preference is for the former.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 April 2017, 12:31:30
That, or remove it from being a Special and the conversion rules entirely. 

Bingo.  Same as all the other quirks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 04 April 2017, 09:50:33
CPLT-K2 updated.

Thank you for that.  Am curious about the extinct from 3020 to 3033 part, if that was based on some errata, or a bit of a salve to make conflicting info work a little more harmoniously?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 April 2017, 09:55:43
Thank you for that.  Am curious about the extinct from 3020 to 3033 part, if that was based on some errata, or a bit of a salve to make conflicting info work a little more harmoniously?

Opposite direction, it's ancient.
TR3025 Catapult entry says "One of House Kurita’s few Catapults was lost to Davion forces during the battle for the planet Hoff; the Draconis Combine has at least one other Catapult assigned to Brion’s Legion, but no others have been deployed with any regular Kurita unit.”  And that's for all Catapult's for Kurita.  Since Kurita has no Catapults from 3020 (Hoff was 3019) until some undefined later date that's at least post 3025, and only Kurita has K2s, there's no K2s after Hoff until Kurita starts new production of K2s in 3033.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 04 April 2017, 10:00:11
Opposite direction, it's ancient.
TR3025 Catapult entry says "One of House Kurita’s few Catapults was lost to Davion forces during the battle for the planet Hoff; the Draconis Combine has at least one other Catapult assigned to Brion’s Legion, but no others have been deployed with any regular Kurita unit.”  And that's for all Catapult's for Kurita.  Since Kurita has no Catapults from 3020 (Hoff was 3019) until some undefined later date that's at least post 3025, and only Kurita has K2s, there's no K2s after Hoff until Kurita starts new production of K2s in 3033.

Ah, that works well.  Good to know and makes sense.  Plus as the entire TRO 2750 knows... extinct is seldom as extinct as one thinks.  So I reckon it's not too far of a stretch for there to be another stray or three like the one in Brion's Legion, but none in any Kurita House Unit, etc......and yeah, rare enough to be for all intents and purposes, extinct. And let's be honest, even before Hoff... it was essentially extinct with that info.  Very interesting stuff. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 04 April 2017, 10:32:41
Opposite direction, it's ancient.
TR3025 Catapult entry says "One of House Kurita’s few Catapults was lost to Davion forces during the battle for the planet Hoff; the Draconis Combine has at least one other Catapult assigned to Brion’s Legion, but no others have been deployed with any regular Kurita unit.”  And that's for all Catapult's for Kurita.  Since Kurita has no Catapults from 3020 (Hoff was 3019) until some undefined later date that's at least post 3025, and only Kurita has K2s, there's no K2s after Hoff until Kurita starts new production of K2s in 3033.

Are there any other BattleMechs that have a similar "period of extinction" in the MUL?  I was under the impression the MUL only dealt with introduction dates specifically and steered clear of "extinction" dates.  Is this a change in policy?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 April 2017, 10:47:38
Are there any other BattleMechs that have a similar "period of extinction" in the MUL?  I was under the impression the MUL only dealt with introduction dates specifically and steered clear of "extinction" dates.  Is this a change in policy?

It's an interesting tidbit that I thought to include.  We put them in public notes every now and then.  There is no policy on the public notes. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 04 April 2017, 14:21:23
Zeus ZEU-9S2 seems to have REAR 1/1/- ability in its AS card even though the 'Mech does not have any rear-facing weapons.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5459/zeus-zeu-9s2
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/5459?skill=4


On the other hand, Zeus ZEU-9S seems to be missing REAR 1/1/- ability. I believe single rear-mounted Medium Pulse Laser is enough for that.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3644/zeus-zeu-9s
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/3644?skill=4

Posted this note long-ish time ago, seems these got missed. Not sure if point values and other stats are correct. Other Zeuses don't seem to have issues at cursory glance.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 April 2017, 14:31:15
Posted this note long-ish time ago, seems these got missed. Not sure if point values and other stats are correct. Other Zeuses don't seem to have issues at cursory glance.

Yep, thanks for the reminder, ZEU-9S and ZEU-9S2 updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 05 April 2017, 11:25:12
A few more Blackjack Issues:

Had someone point out the Blackjack Prototype, the BJ-1X, is listed as being produced in 2769.... 12 years after the later production model, the BJ-1 entered production (2757).  Not sure if this implies that the original Prototype BJ-1X was later released as a full production model, or just a fact check/typo issue?

Also noted that the BJ-3X http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3831/blackjack-bj-3x does not show on the base BJ entry? http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=blackjack
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 April 2017, 12:32:21
BJ-3X http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3831/blackjack-bj-3x does not show on the base BJ entry? http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=blackjack

it doesn't have a BV assigned so it will not appear by default. you have to click the "Only units w/Battle Value" checkbox off.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 05 April 2017, 13:03:00
BJ-1X intro date fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 05 April 2017, 16:35:05
Vedette Medium Tank (Standard) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3395/vedette-medium-tank-standard)
Vedette Medium Tank (AC2) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3388/vedette-medium-tank-ac2)
Vedette Medium Tank (Liao) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3391/vedette-medium-tank-liao)

Image for these three should be the older TRO:3039 version, not the updated TRO:3058 version.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 05 April 2017, 20:38:58
BJ-1X intro date fixed.
thx!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 16 April 2017, 13:05:35
is there a way to add RS: 3145u as a searchable source? it would be easier than having to add all eight 3145 faction TROs when looking at 3145/50 units.

thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 16 April 2017, 21:49:20
Very minor thing but... The Celerity CLR-02-X-D has wrong intro date (3052). Kinda, maybe.
The issue is the XL Gyro the Celerity uses. The XL Gyro is prototyped in about 3055 according to Interstellar Operations pg 48.
On the other hand, XTRO ComStar describes the Celerity project starting in 3052. Now, perhaps the project was indeed started then but assuming IO is correct, then the first functional Celerities can't have been produced before 3055 (indeed, perhaps XL gyro is basically a side-effect of the project). Seems to me that adjusting the 'Mech's intro date makes more sense than issuing errata for IO and XTRO ComStar so i figured i'd drop this here rather than somewhere else.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5553/celerity-clr-02-x-d

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 02 May 2017, 11:30:01
The update section on the front page of the MUL hasn't been updated in over a year.

I would like to know what new sources or units have been added in that time so that I can update my cards.

I follow this thread so I have all the errata listed here to try to keep my printed cards correct.

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 11 May 2017, 08:36:32
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/43/annihilator-c

This Annihilator lists its TRO as 3050U, but I can't find any mention of the C variant in the writeup in 3050U, and so its source should probably be set as Operation Klondike, where it is mentioned in the writeup Also, the Record Sheet Source says "RS3050Uu-C" but the C and C2 are in RS3050Uu-I. They're also in RSOK, but I'm not sure which one is newer at this point, but I would recommend RS3050Uu-I since its more mainstream.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/45/annihilator-c-2

The TRO for this is listed as "RS3050Uu-C" but obviously that's not a TRO, and should probably be set as Operation KLONDIKE, since that's where its mentioned. The Record Sheet source is technically correct, but it might be better to use RS3050Uu-I, since that's the more mainstream product.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1011/eyleuka-eyl-4a

Ths date is 3068, which is the Jihad Era, but the Era Symbol is the Civil War symbol. Since the design has Machine Gun Arrays, which debuted in 3068, the symbol should be changed to the Jihad Symbol. I suppose you could try to argue prototypes or something, but either way, the date and the Era Symbol should match.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 May 2017, 08:49:00
Thanks, Annihilators and Eyleuka fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 May 2017, 08:49:51
The update section on the front page of the MUL hasn't been updated in over a year.

I would like to know what new sources or units have been added in that time so that I can update my cards.

I follow this thread so I have all the errata listed here to try to keep my printed cards correct.

Thanks

I don't have such a list.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 13 May 2017, 22:44:22
Galahad GLH-1D
Current availability has this at several factions, along with the SLDF, HAF, and AEAF. As per an old post from Herb, it was a one-off production line and wasn't continuously produced. Suggesting a rating of "Extinct".

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=38360.msg898036#msg898036
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 13 May 2017, 23:29:31
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6522/gorgon-carrier-standard

Gorgon Carrier missing image

edit: also
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6520/caerleon-standard

Caerleon small craft missing image
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 14 May 2017, 12:11:26
I don't have such a list.

So, there's no information on what new sources or units have been added in the last year? No way to know what's new?

I have hundreds of different units, and there's no way to find out if new variants have been posted without going through each individual entry?

How hard would it be to post an update on the front page whenever a new source is added? "Hey guys, all the mechs from TRO: 3155 have finished being added."
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 May 2017, 13:22:34
If it's not listed in this thread, I haven't added or changed any units in years.  So it would be impossible for me to list anything else, I haven't done anything else to list.  I can't prove anybody else hasn't, I do t have such a list.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 14 May 2017, 14:57:53
Primitive V was the last set of units I've entered. Corrections have been done. Judging by the volume of the change log, adding a step of logging it manually here wouldn't be realistic. I know at one point in time I was averaging 10 changes a day if the log was any indication of work and I was only one person.

Sorry.

I'm in the habit of getting a fresh AS image each time just to make sure I'm up to date.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 May 2017, 14:59:16
Based on personal observations, the main coverage holes right now are:

*3039 and 3050 (IS/SL) units don't extend past the Early Republic
*Zero Clan tables exist for anything pre-Clan Invasion.
*There is no public data for the Age of War
*The status of TRO:3057 units remains in limbo

There is still some work to be done on non-TRO sources, but I suspect a good portion of that is marking dozens of units as extinct an era or two past when they debuted.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 14 May 2017, 15:06:27
Very good observations. I burned out before getting the 39/50 IS units. Warships aren't my strength. PreInvasion clan may appear when Golden Century comes out.

I doubt we will see Age of War unless we get better source materials. There were just too many holes to fill to make it worth the time. Star League was difficult enough and there are more books in that era to work with.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 May 2017, 10:11:34
Does Morgan Kell's personal Archer really have an intro date of 2474? Seems like it got the ARC-2R's by mistake. I would imagine the custom would have originated in the 3010s?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5809/archer-arc-2r-morgan


I doubt we will see Age of War unless we get better source materials. There were just too many holes to fill to make it worth the time. Star League was difficult enough and there are more books in that era to work with.

That's the impression I got from poking at the Age of War stuff for some personal use projects. About two-thirds of the mechs are pretty cut and dry. There are very few indications that many of the primitives or a number of the house designs (e.g. Hammerhands, Koschei, Crossbow) found their way out of the initial designers' hands with a few exceptions. The first wave of introtech designs largely pops up between the late 2400s and early 2500s that are already widely dispersed. You get hints of mass-proliferation of Hegemony designs from both the Talos' and Hector's writeups, but to where and how quickly is, at best, inference and guesswork.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 15 May 2017, 11:32:51
Morgan drove a stock 2R archer so yes it does share the same dates. I think it has the same faction data too if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 May 2017, 15:18:14
a stock 2R archer

well i'll be damned.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: DarkJaguar on 17 May 2017, 22:27:15
According to TRO 3145, the Vulture MKIII should have the VRT (Variable Range Targeting) special ability.
The MUL isn't showing quirks for any units, we're not going to just do one.

I don't mean offense in questioning your decision, but VRT isn't solely a quirk.  It's a special Ability, defined on page 109 of the Alpha Strike Core Rule Book, it's usage is further explained on page 103 of the core rule book, where it is explicitly called out as a special ability, and it's conversion rules are listed in the Alpha Strike Companion on page 133 in the 'Battletech Conversions" rules, right after UMU and right before VTX#.  Additionally, while VRT may be listed in the quirks section, it is listed there right after Trailer Hitch and searchlight (Page 64 ASC).  Trailer hitch and searchlight are both a design quirk AND special ability (HTC or SRCH)  and have been added to cards (link to units with HTC special ability (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=true&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=HTC&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=))(link to units with SRCH special ability (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=true&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=SRCH&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=)), so to say that VRT can't be done because it's a "quirk" is insufficient in my opinion, with how well documented it is, and with the core book explicitly calling it a special ability, and providing rules for it as part of the core rules (which do not even include quirks).
In short, I ask you to reconsider, and having VRT added to the aforementioned unit's card, as well as any other unit that can be pointed at as meeting the criteria as per the conversion rules (I don't know of any other unit that has this, personally, but if I find one, I'll let you know).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 17 May 2017, 23:08:37
Cost the unit appropriately.  The Special is defined in the usual place; I suggest the exception to be treat VRT as always in play.  That, or remove it from being a Special and the conversion rules entirely.  Given how much easier it is to edit the MUL than it is to issue errata for a book that most people might realize had changed, my preference is for the former.
Bingo.  Same as all the other quirks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Azakael on 18 May 2017, 12:34:17
Faction Availability on the Bandit Hovercraft base and variants:

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3782/bandit-hovercraft-base

- List Wolf's Dragoons as the only one with access.

- Most if not all variants list Mercenaries, and later Kell Hounds from Fed Com Civil War as having access.

It stands to reason, that the same faction availability that applies to the variants should apply to the <Base> model.

Fix: Change FCCW and Jihad Faction Availability on the Base to match availability on variants.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 23 May 2017, 19:52:59
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2186/minotaur-standard

Errata had already been issued for the Record Sheet, but the Unit Card doesn't match the TRO entry (TRO3060 p.203)

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=4021.msg272449#msg272449

Per the ASC p.90-141
Weapon Values should be 2/2/0 [0.7x2 or 1.4/1.4/0 for 2 ERML]
PV should increase to 12 PV (a +3 increase from the change in damage)
...everything else looks good.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 24 May 2017, 01:59:16
Rim Worlds Republic
Missing the Aegis Cruiser from both lists. We know that at least one existed from Historical Turning Points: New Dallas. How do I remember this? The ship was named the RWS Tigershark.  ;D
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 24 May 2017, 08:27:19
Asshur Fast Reconnaissance Vehicle has TAG as an AS ability but does not have TAG
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/135/asshur-fast-reconnaissance-vehicle-standard

Asshur Artillery Spotter does not have TAG as an AS ability but does have TAG
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/133/asshur-artillery-spotter-standard

Solution: remove TAG from the former, add TAG to the latter


Xotl: Corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wrangler on 30 May 2017, 06:52:35
Colt Medium Fighter (From Experimental Technical Readout: Primitives V)
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7415/colt-medium-fighter (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7415/colt-medium-fighter)

ISSUE:
MUL entry for the Colt Medium Fighter (SRM) Variant is missing. The SRM variant is noted in the original entry in XTRO: P5, with no record sheet published. 

SOLUTION: Add missing page for fluff variant, only difference from the original Colt Medium Fighter is straight swap of LRM5s for SRM4 on either wing and LRM ammo is also straight switch for 1 ton of SRM ammo.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: sadlerbw on 19 June 2017, 16:12:41
ISSUE: Bear Cub and Bear Cub 3 PV Incorrect. The Bear Cub 2 is fine though.

Currently, the PV for the standard is showing as 22PV:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/314/bear-cub-standard

while the 3 is showing at 20PV:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/316/bear-cub-3

This makes no sense on its face because the 3 does MORE damage than the standard, and is identical in all other respects, but it costs LESS PV.

SOLUTION:

According to the Alpha Strike PV spreadsheet that Xotl provided for evaluating the upcoming PV revision, the current PV's for those units are 19PV for the Bear Cub Standard, and 20PV for the Bear Cub 3. I double-checked and those numbers seem correct.

Standard:
Offensive = Dmg 9 [3+3+0] + size 0.5 + Specials[IF0*] 0.5 = 10
Defensive = MV 2 + DIR 6.5 [(Armor 4 + Structure 1) * Defense 1.3] = 8.5
Total = 10 + 8.5 = 18.5 round normally to 19PV.

Standard:
Offensive = Dmg 10 [3+3+1] + size 0.5 + Specials[IF1] 1 = 11.5
Defensive = MV 2 + DIR 6.5 [(Armor 4 + Structure 1) * Defense 1.3] = 8.5
Total = 11.5 + 8.5 = 20PV
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 19 June 2017, 16:26:19
As best as I can tell, under the current (non-revised) PVs, both should have the same value (20).  However, the spreadsheet that uses the old formulas and which we derived all the current MUL PVs from has a rounding error compared to how the Companion lays things out, so that may explain why you're getting a 1-point difference.

I'll change the Standard to 20 PV, placing them closer together.  If/when the revision goes through, the rounding error will be fixed; I don't want to adjust it now, because that would be a bunch of work only to be thrown out when the revised values are implemented.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 19 June 2017, 17:19:05
WFT-2X "Bear Trap" (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3557/wolf-trap-tora-wft-2x-bear-trap)

Issue: The unit is armed with a Silver Bullet Gauss which according to the ASC conversion rules on pg 104 qualifies for the FLK special.  The Card lacks this special.

Solution: Add FLK 1/1/1 to the specials field.  PV should not be affected as this special is not invoked as an offensive special factor.

NCKestrel: updated, thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bosefius on 27 June 2017, 04:10:43
Hi, the MUL is missing the Stalker STK-3Fk. It's from Era Report:2750 (Page 129). I am not sure if there is a record sheet for it, I can't find one.

The only reason it's come up is that it's one of only two mechs specifically mentioned for Inner Sphere forces in the new World Wide Event.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 11 July 2017, 19:34:37
This was added during the Blackout! http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5870/stalker-stk-3fk

W.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CDAT on 13 July 2017, 16:07:23
A question came up and was posted here (lost with last hiccup), the question is about the LCT-1M according to the MUL is is listed as extinct (as of 2901) but several of us can find no sources other than the MUL that says it is/or should be extinct, on the other hand we can find sources that imply it is still active as late as 3039 at least.

According to TRO 3025 "The Model 1M Locust reduces its armor and carries two LRM 5-packs, 24 rounds of ammunition, and the popular Martell medium laser . This version is used mainly by House Davion's Ceti Hussars." It also goes on to say "Model 1E is the Locust variant least produced and least resembling the others . Reducing its armor in favor of more weaponry, the 1E carries two arm-mounted medium lasers as well as two small lasers." and then in TRO 3039 "The 1M variant, popular in Davion space, further reduces the Locust’s armor in order to mount two LRM-5 launchers." So if it is produced more than the 1E but the 1E is not extinct, and in 3039 it is popular in Davion space, also both TRO's talk about it in the present tense not past. So I guess the question is there a super special secret source that only the MUL folks have that says it is extinct as several of us have looked and can not find anything, or are we just missing the snake in front of our faces?

NCKestrel: LCT-1M's have been found not yet dead in the AFFS in later eras. They were just hiding to protect their thin armor. MUL updated. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 14 July 2017, 00:55:23
Question: Phoenix Hawk LAM PHX - in the MUL, all the records show it as size 1. At 50 tons, should be size 2.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4822/phoenix-hawk-lam-phx-hk2
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4822/phoenix-hawk-lam-phx-hk2m
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4821/phoenix-hawk-lam-phx-hk1rb
(no AS card for the C version).

For correction in the next pass, thanks.


Xotl: Corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alfaryn on 14 July 2017, 05:45:53
Here are some more 50-55 ton LAMs in the MUL with size 1 instead of 2:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4824/phoenix-hawk-lam-mk-i-phx-hk1
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4825/phoenix-hawk-lam-mk-i-phx-hk1r
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4823/phoenix-hawk-lam-phx-hk2m
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5039/shadow-hawk-lam-shd-x1
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5040/shadow-hawk-lam-shd-x2


Xotl: corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 14 July 2017, 06:03:50
Quote
Xotl: Corrected, thanks.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Phaedros on 15 July 2017, 21:50:47
I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but Clan Wolf appears to have somehow lost the Loki and all its alt. configs for the Dark Ages. If I recall correctly, it was available to them quite a few months back, as I made a purchase off the info.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 16 July 2017, 06:08:46
I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but Clan Wolf appears to have somehow lost the Loki and all its alt. configs for the Dark Ages. If I recall correctly, it was available to them quite a few months back, as I made a purchase off the info.

Any ideas?

I just dug out the original file used to import the Late Republic and Dark Age eras. The data that is there now appears to be the same as what was entered early last year. The Loki II has been available to them.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 16 July 2017, 15:18:03
I just dug out the original file used to import the Late Republic and Dark Age eras. The data that is there now appears to be the same as what was entered early last year. The Loki II has been available to them.

Objectives: The Clans (ca. 3079) has the Falcons as the only producers of the original Loki in the Inner Sphere. With all of the fighting, I could see the Wolves' stock running out by 3100 when they lose access on the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Phaedros on 20 July 2017, 14:42:53
Objectives: The Clans (ca. 3079) has the Falcons as the only producers of the original Loki in the Inner Sphere. With all of the fighting, I could see the Wolves' stock running out by 3100 when they lose access on the MUL.
I just dug out the original file used to import the Late Republic and Dark Age eras. The data that is there now appears to be the same as what was entered early last year. The Loki II has been available to them.

Alright, sounds like I may just have a poor memory then, haha.

It is pretty safe to assume the Wolf Empire could potentially maintain some that they already possessed (via salvage) or claim some as isorla from the Falcons, no?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 20 July 2017, 15:54:56
That's outside the purview of the MUL, but in general any major faction in BattleTech can field at least a few examples of most 'Mechs. The faction availability notes in the MUL (and other sources) should be treated as guidelines, not straitjackets.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bosefius on 26 July 2017, 03:43:41
Hi, I have a function request. Is there any way to add a function so that we can just click on an era and see everything available to every faction (essentially, am average lost of all units available in a specific era)? If this already exists I'm missing how to do it.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 26 July 2017, 05:11:02
You can do it with the regular filters. Just use the available era filter. Don't specify a faction in that filter.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 28 July 2017, 07:56:49
The following units are listed as 'Standard' tech. Looking at the record sheets, they should be classified as 'Introductory'

Darter Scout Car
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/836/darter-scout-car-standard
Korvin Tank KRV-3
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1817/korvin-tank-krv-3
Marsden MBT II
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2084/marsden-mbt-ii
Marsden MBT II-A
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2086/marsden-mbt-ii-a
Merkava Heavy Tank Mk VIII
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2176/merkava-heavy-tank-mk-viii
Sabaku Kaze Heavy Scout Hover Tank (Standard)
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2761/sabaku-kaze-heavy-scout-hover-tank-standard

The Cobra Transport VTOL (Original) has no rules level, but the record sheet classifies it as introtech
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3971/cobra-transport-vtol-original

The Darter Scout Car (SRM 2) lacks a BV (167) and a Rules Level (record sheet tags it as introtech)
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4050/darter-scout-car-srm2

NCKestrel: corrected, thanks.  random trivia... The MUL started with 3075 units, back when it was first a spreadsheet and handed to me when I joined the MUL team.  And at the time, Introductory was limited to 'Mechs only (as only 'Mechs were in the Intro Box Set). Eventually Intro tech was broadened to include vehicles, but it looks like these 3075 vehicles never got caught up....
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 01 August 2017, 16:28:25
After setting up a complete set of factories for our online campaign, I did notice that there was a notable lack of advanced tech in the RWA, despite the language of FR:2765:

Quote
Intelligence Command reports also show that, since the Twentieth Army left Republic space [2755], each of these divisions has been slowly cycling older BattleMechs out of its ranks, replacing them with models normally seen only from Hegemony sources.

This seems to indicate that, for 12 years, the Imperial Divisions were modernizing with SLDF equipment. Feels like some of the TRO:2750 designs would be listed in the "Rim Worlds Republic: Home Guard", such as those listed in 2765 on page 18 (Black Knight, Excalibur, Highlander, King Crab) and on page 19 (Atlas).

Surely, these advanced designs went with the Liberation Army to Terra, but for those 12 years, they were in the Republic proper. I'm sure it's come up before, but just asking if you guys can take a look. The list feels a bit "anemic" for a force capable of defeating the SLDF on its home ground. :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 03 August 2017, 22:31:51
The Titan TI-1Aj and Titan TI-1Ar have intro dates of 3023, but Late Republic Era badges. The -1Aj contains a number of advanced technologies that do not exist at the time. The -1Ar. while using strictly Star League tech, is quite out of place in the 3020s as well.

Solution: Was the intro date for these supposed to be 3123?

---------------

The Victor VTR-9B (Li) from OTP: Death to Mercenaries is listed as Standard tech. I can't see any advanced tech on the sheet.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3402/victor-vtr-9b-li

edit: Same with the Annihilator ANH-1E
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/36/annihilator-anh-1e

NCKestrel: Yep, both Titan's are supposed to be 3123.  That and the two intro tech units corrected. Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alexander Knight on 04 August 2017, 23:13:53
Hachiwara HCA-6P had incorrect Armor value (208 points of Hardened Armor is 14 AV, not 10).  Was missing CR from specials list (Hardened Armor), OV should have been 1, not 2.  (5 Medium Lasers + ER PPC w/Capacitor = 3.25 damage, adjusted by heat to 2.32), PV should have been 48.

Card adjusted.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alexander Knight on 14 August 2017, 21:57:56
Cauldron-Born X lacking long range damage value (The RAC is a Clan model, not Inner Sphere) and has CASE instead of CASEII special.  Both errors corrected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alexander Knight on 16 August 2017, 20:39:05
Sunder SD1-OR had an incorrect LR damage value of 1.  Changed it to a 3 (The Large Pulse Lasers are Clantech)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hayden. on 04 September 2017, 12:57:01
Panther PNT-9ALAG (from CM: Kurita, Pg. 54)  does not come in up in searches.  There is an entry in the clan invasion section for House Kurita for a PNT-10LAG (which seems to be the unit described in FM: Kurita, pg. 94), but this does not appear in searches either. 

Also, no card is provided for the extant PNT-10LAG (I'm assuming that this and the PNT-9ALAG are the same machine?)

Also, I wonder about the 3054 entry date on the PNT-10LAG's MUL entry.  The description on Pg. 54 (last paragraph of main body text) of CM: Kurita suggests that the modifications for the PNT-9ALAG are such that it would be possible to field the design during the Late Succession Wars (Renaissance).

NCKestrel: Adding PNT-9ALAG.  PNT-10ALAG is a different unit, but there has never been a record sheet or any other details for it.  It's not showing in searches because it has no BV (due to no details to calculate BV from).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 04 September 2017, 16:32:59
To my knowledge, none of the combat manual only entries have been added to the mul. Without a record sheet, it is unknown if the 10ALAG is based upon the 9R or the 10K.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Andy_in_Indy on 04 September 2017, 17:10:10
I was wondering:  Would it be possible to add an option to download Alpha Strike cards as "one card per page", with the the circles able to be filled in while being read in the pdf?  I would like to not have to print out all these cards every time I want to play, and adding a few simple things to a pdf will make it easy to use on a small screen like a phone or tablet.

Here is an example of what I mean:  https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8kqPO6A6VFgR0FtclY0Mm5qdGs (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8kqPO6A6VFgR0FtclY0Mm5qdGs)

The dots and heat scale can be manipulated in adobe reader for Linux, Windows, iOS, or Android but not the pdf viewer in the Google drive app.

It would also not be hard to program a pdf to recalculate the inches of movement based on the number of MP hits, the damage based on Weapons hits, or to alter the cost based on the base to hit target (skill level).  It might be better to put that on a legal size page instead of letter, since most screens are 16:9 instead of 4:3

NCKestrel: Thanks for the suggestion, but we do not have the resources at this time to make any new development on the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 05 September 2017, 11:21:02
Screamer LAM has availability of Star League Regular, Royal, Terran Hegemony, and Unique. Should also have "Rim Worlds Republic - Terran Corps", since no other faction actually fielded one.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 05 September 2017, 11:43:10
It also appears that several factions need to be updated for availability of Land-Air 'Mechs in the SL era.

Draconis Combine
Field Report: 2765 (DCMS), page 15
Quote
The First Rasalhague Regulars are the showpiece of the Rasalhague District. Based on the SLDF striker regiments, the First has light- to medium-weight BattleMechs, a dedicated aerospace fighter wing, and a company of Land-Air ’Mechs. It also contains a significant number of Star League-designed BattleMechs, produced both within the Combine or purchased from SLDF surplus. The First Rasalhague’s LAMs are thus one of the most advanced tools in the Combine’s arsenal, produced by LexaTech Industries on Irece.

Outworlds Alliance
Field Report: 2765 (Periphery), page 9
Quote
Positions in the WarShip training programs are the most highly sought after in the RSSCO, but the largest classes focus on aerospace fighter and small craft programs, which also includes training for the Alliance’s few Land-Air ’Mech pilots.

Rim Worlds Republic
Field Report: 2765 (Periphery), page 21
Quote
In addition to these assets, each division’s lighter weight ’Mech assets includes of a full battalion of Land-Air ’Mechs, spread out unevenly between each of the division’s nine regiments. These LAMs are used as highly effective scouts, to help direct larger Lancers formations towards their targets. Due to this tactical maneuverability, the Amaris Lancer brigades are often the first to be deployed against bandit forces on offensive missions.
...
The most common under-strength elements in the Lancers are their LAM formations. Intelligence Command shows evidence that the Republic is developing its own Land-Air ’Mech production lines somewhere within its territory, as the realm cannot presently secure enough of these flexible machines to keep up with the Lancers’ demand through Hegemony-source imports alone.


There are more in the other reports, but I don't have them in front of me ATM. :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 12 September 2017, 10:35:36
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2186/minotaur-standard

Errata had already been issued for the Record Sheet, but the Unit Card doesn't match the TRO entry (TRO3060 p.203)

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=4021.msg272449#msg272449

Per the ASC p.90-141
Weapon Values should be 2/2/0 [0.7x2 or 1.4/1.4/0 for 2 ERML]
PV should increase to 12 PV (a +3 increase from the change in damage)
...everything else looks good.

Is this a correct change that needs to be made?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 12 September 2017, 18:15:50
Is this a correct change that needs to be made?

Research into the Record Sheet confirmed the omission of the 2nd ERML on the Minotaur [Standard] that exists in TRO3060.

My calculation is unofficial, but it is based on the current methods.  Someone else with the proper authority is welcome to check against it and make the appropriate correction


**EDIT** I revisited my calculations...

Minotaur [Standard] with 2 ERML (per the TRO entry)
OFV = 6.5  (2+2+0+2 Damage + 0.5 Size)
DFV = 4.75
  DIR = 3.5 [(1 armor x 2 + 1 structure) x 1(1+ 1 TMM/10); Round to nearest half]
  MF = 1.25 (6 / 8 + 0.5 jump)
GFB = +0

Total PV = 11.25 ~ 11 (rounded down)

Proposed changes on the MUL:
Change PV to 11
Change Damage to 2/2/0
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wrangler on 14 September 2017, 08:54:43
The following entries are not in the MUL as of this posting.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Clavius1 on 17 September 2017, 06:14:13
Goblin Medium Tank (Standard) in  Civil War Era is available only for St. Ives Compact. Isn't it an error?

NCKestrel: yes, corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: neoancient on 20 September 2017, 09:38:03
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6631/zeus-x-zeu-x (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6631/zeus-x-zeu-x)
The Zeus-X ZEU-X is given an introduction date of 3054, though it has reactive armor which has a prototype date of 3063(DC), production ~3083(DC) (IO, p. 35; this date is unchanged from TO, 282).

NCKestrel: short answer, it's a mess but correct.  longer answer: The ZEU-X is a very complicated case, since it was introduced to the universe in MaxTech Which had an in-universe date of 3059, so it couldn't have been 3063 or later. And it was the cover of MaxTech (ie. not exactly easy to ignore).  And until RS 3085? (and/or MWDA) or so, it had no other existence in canon. So making it not exist in 3055 would mean removing it from it's only existence in canon to that point. Officially, the ZEU-X existed in 3054. There are many Solaris designs that have equipment prior to the TO/IO prototype date.  The general directive has been that Solaris prototypes doesn't always count toward IO/TO prototype dates, as those dates are when the major militaries, ie, not Solaris only, use them.  Above my pay grade to do anything about. But there was a ZEU-X in 3054.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Revanche on 24 September 2017, 07:47:18
GRF-2N Griffin (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1299/griffin-grf-2n)

MUL indicates this variant is in Record Sheets: Operation Klondike; there is actually no mention of the GRF-2N.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 25 September 2017, 19:01:09
GRF-2N Griffin (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1299/griffin-grf-2n)

MUL indicates this variant is in Record Sheets: Operation Klondike; there is actually no mention of the GRF-2N.

The -2N appears in my PDF copies:
Operation: Klondike page 159  (pdf page 161) right hand column between Sentinel and Shadow Hawk.
Record Sheets: Klondike page 37
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Thunder on 27 September 2017, 01:51:14
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4643/minotaur-p2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4643/minotaur-p2)

Alpha Strike damage is incorrect.

Short should be 2, Medium should be *

2 x iHeavy Small.  6 damage each.
SRM-4 with 8 ammo.   4.5 damage  (6 for SRM-4.  X .75 for less then 10 ammo)
Total is 16.5 at short and 4.5 at medium.

This will also reduce the PV by 2 making it 10.

NCKestrel: updated, thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Revanche on 27 September 2017, 15:58:38
The -2N appears in my PDF copies:
Operation: Klondike page 159  (pdf page 161) right hand column between Sentinel and Shadow Hawk.
Record Sheets: Klondike page 37

I've got the mention in the sourcebook, but, oddly, not the record sheet. Thanks for the exact page number: mine show's the HOP-4Bb. Fortunately, I bought that thru DriveThru, so I can check to see if there's an update available.

I appreciate the double-check, GoldBishop.

Edit: DriveThru shows it was last updated March 2010, so either CGL didn't decide to update DriveThru or they removed it the -2N. GoldBishop: would you please check p. 3 of the RS, under "Credits"? See if there is a version number I can report to DriveThru?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 27 September 2017, 21:09:46
I've got the mention in the sourcebook, but, oddly, not the record sheet. Thanks for the exact page number: mine show's the HOP-4Bb. Fortunately, I bought that thru DriveThru, so I can check to see if there's an update available.

...GoldBishop: would you please check p. 3 of the RS, under "Credits"? See if there is a version number I can report to DriveThru?

My copy of RS:OK appears to be the unmodified version (no update/revision number).
Under credits, I also have 2010, but no month.
Looking directly at the file, my copy was installed/downloaded in August 2016, but last modified in March [2016].

91 total pages, with the Griffin -2N in between the Sentinel STN-3Lb on page 36 and the Hoplite HOP-4Bb p.38
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 September 2017, 08:53:18
My RS OK is showing the GRF-4N, not 2N.  However I have in my MUL email "The KLONDIKE GRF RS should be labelled GRF-2N, not -4N, it was a typo in that RS volume."  Historical Operation Klondike calls it the 2N.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Revanche on 28 September 2017, 09:05:41
Looking directly at the file, my copy was installed/downloaded in August 2016, but last modified in March [2016].

91 total pages, with the Griffin -2N in between the Sentinel STN-3Lb on page 36 and the Hoplite HOP-4Bb p.38

My RS OK is showing the GRF-4N, not 2N.  However I have in my MUL email "The KLONDIKE GRF RS should be labelled GRF-2N, not -4N, it was a typo in that RS volume."  Historical Operation Klondike calls it the 2N.

Thank you, gentlemen. It looks like it was modified (GoldBishop) but possibly not submitted to DriveThru. I'll have to figure out how to make the note that nckestrel provided (so I don't lose it). I submitted the error to DriveThru, and their publisher relations team will be attempting to reach CGL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kit deSummersville on 10 October 2017, 09:53:18
XTRO RetroTech tells us that the Star Dagger was an obsolete fighter from the Terran Hegemony brought back into production in the Jihad. Clearly the intro date of 3077 in the MUL needs to be updated, though to exactly when I'm not totally sure.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 10 October 2017, 17:29:01
I’m not where I can check, but the 3077 is for the S-2, and the presumed S-1 was the origanal Terran model that we have listed as unknown intro date (and no model number).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 12 October 2017, 06:51:36
The MUL lists both the FS9-K and FS9-A as extinct from the early SW yet TRO3039 states that -H was the main production model not the only production model and it further clarifies it by stating the -M version was done just before the factory was destroyed.

Given the -A and -K were produced and are simple weapon swaps I think the MUL should reflect that it would be available.

The -K model looks like the inspiration for the omni model that came out later on.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 12 October 2017, 10:36:07
*bump*

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=47774.msg1325687#msg1325687

NCKestrel: minotaur has been updated, thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 25 October 2017, 00:57:22
The MUL lists both the FS9-K and FS9-A as extinct from the early SW yet TRO3039 states that -H was the main production model not the only production model and it further clarifies it by stating the -M version was done just before the factory was destroyed.

Given the -A and -K were produced and are simple weapon swaps I think the MUL should reflect that it would be available.

The -K model looks like the inspiration for the omni model that came out later on.

I just read TRO Succession Wars and it stated the only model that ceased production was the -A variant. So the -K model should still have limited availability as the -H model was the dominant production model not sole.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Project Dark Fox on 03 November 2017, 18:25:39
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2065/marauder-iic-standard

The Marauder IIC is listed in the MUL as being worth 29,469,333 C-Bills.
As the MAD-IIC does not carry an XL engine, the cost should not be so overly inflated.

According to Record Sheets 3055-3058, the cost of the MAD-IIC Standard is supposed to be 9,913,534 C-Bills.

NCKestrel: cost updated, thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: The Eagle on 11 November 2017, 14:47:39
I'd like to request that the Goblin Infantry Support Vehicle (Standard) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1222/goblin-infantry-support-vehicle-standard) be made available to the Free Worlds League beginning in the Clan Invasion period.  This is based entirely on the following lines from Field Manual: Free Worlds League:


Page 64.  20th Marik Militia's infantry component, 23rd Andurien Heavy Infantry, states:

Quote
The mechanized battalions use modern infantry vehicles like the Goblin, providing the unit with mobility and firepower.

Page 82.  Protectorate Steel Guard's infantry component, 67th Independent Infantry Brigade, states:

Quote
The 381st [regiment of the brigade] makes extensive use of Maxim and Goblin infantry fighting vehicles.

NCKestrel: Added FWL to Civil War and Jihad availabilities for Goblin IFV
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 November 2017, 17:49:14
The tank that you linked to does not make sense to be sold from the FC to the FLW at that time when the arms were flowing in the other direction. The case could be made for the older Goblin Medium Tank to still have FWL availability. Those still carried infantry too.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: The Eagle on 11 November 2017, 21:27:25
Two points: first, the old Goblin's nomenclature is as a medium tank, meaning it would appear in armor formations rather than as an infantry fighting vehicle (being the nomenclature for the upgraded version that appeared in 3053).  Second, the first quote from the 20th Marik Militia specifies modern IFVs.  The original Goblin is of First Star League vintage which certainly doesn't make it modern.

Edit: Also note that the flow of arms wasn't one-way out of the Free Worlds.  FedSuns-produced vehicles like the Yellow Jacket, as an example, are available to the FWL; the League also shipped arms to the Combine, yet the FWLM includes Combine-produced tanks like the Pegasus and Maxim as well as the the full range of first-generation OmniMechs (the Firestarter and Blackjack actually being licensed to FWL manufacturers).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Stallion12 on 12 November 2017, 16:14:51
Demolisher ii heavy tank (standard) should be 1619 bv, not 1397.

NCKestrel: Corrected, thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 12 November 2017, 18:00:25
Demolisher ii heavy tank (standard) should be 1619 bv, not 1397.

It appears the Demolisher II (MML)'s BV is 1397. Copy/Paste error?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wrangler on 14 November 2017, 08:35:52
MARSDEN I MAIN BATTLE TANK
Issue: Missing
Details: This was published in Era Digest : Age of War. It has not been published on the MUL as of yet.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 November 2017, 10:01:12
This one? http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4602/marsden-mbt-i

Its a primitive so it's classified as a support vee
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wrangler on 14 November 2017, 10:15:02
This one? http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4602/marsden-mbt-i

Its a primitive so it's classified as a support vee
Shouldn't it populate anyways?
For some reason when you go to enter name, only the Marsden II MBT and Marsden III MBT only populate.  That's not good...unless it suppose do that.

I've noticed that in the past.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 November 2017, 10:25:45
Ah, I see what you're saying. It gives a generic "Marsden MBT" for all versions, but the marsden I doesn't get its own. Strange.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 November 2017, 12:02:01
Names in the MUL are actually split by name and model.  Warhammer is name, WHM-6R is model.  The search field autopopulates on name only, not model.
The Marsden MBT I has a name of Marsden MBT, and a Model of I.  The Marsden MBT (Standard) has a name of Marsden MBT, and a model of (Standard). 
The Other Models list on a unit also goes by name.  Thus all the Marsden MBT's show as Other Models to one another, because they all have the same name (Marsden MBT), just different models.
The reason Marsden MBT II is showing up, is because there is a a date entry...inconsistency. The primitive Marsden II is listed as Marsden II MBT II (Primitive), while the other Marsden IIs are listed as Marsden MBT II. So that needs to be cleaned up. And the same with the III.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wrangler on 21 November 2017, 13:21:46
Triton-class Missile Submarine (Standard)
Issue: Missing Variant
Comment: The variant is from TRO:VA (Revised), p. 231  - The Piranha variant of the Triton Class Missile Submarine. There nothing posted on MUL regarding it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wrangler on 22 November 2017, 13:57:24

Lee (2756)  (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6785/lee-2756)
Issues: Missing Variants, availability is incorrect, and Role missing
Comment: The variant is from Liberation of Terra V2 (Revised), p. 148-149 - Fluff explains there are 3 variants, CV (aerospace carrier version), Combat Vehicle Transport, and Cargo Transport. None have entries on the MUL. I know it's lacking of record sheets, but they should have entries.  The Ship is suppose to be extinct beyond the Succession War era.  No notes have ever said the ship is back in production beyond that era.   There no role in the article, which is a Mech Carrier (main variant)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hellraiser on 26 November 2017, 23:32:18
Trident-3U
Issue:  Incorrect Speed - Listed as 8
Comment:  Shouldn't the speed of this version be 12?   The fluff mentions switching from FAA to Standard but no reduction of 4MP.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 27 November 2017, 08:35:07
Trident-3U
Issue:  Incorrect Speed - Listed as 8
Comment:  Shouldn't the speed of this version be 12?   The fluff mentions switching from FAA to Standard but no reduction of 4MP.

RS3050U - Clan/Star League has a record sheet for the Trident 3U showing it with 8 safe thrust,  but it looks like that was an error. checking...Yep, errata was posted.   Thrust and Role updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Thunder on 28 November 2017, 23:23:35
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6396/avalanche-avl-1o

Avalanche and it's configurations should only have 4 structure.  (50 ton mech, standard engine)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 01 December 2017, 21:14:31
I just read TRO Succession Wars and it stated the only model that ceased production was the -A variant. So the -K model should still have limited availability as the -H model was the dominant production model not sole.

bump - any opinion on modified availability for the -K?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alexander Knight on 07 December 2017, 21:37:10
Grigori C-GRG-OS Caelestis has CASEII according to the 3075 RS.  Updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hellraiser on 16 December 2017, 16:39:12
LRM Carrier (3055)
Issue:  IDF value includes Artemis?
Comment:  Shouldn't the IDF value only be 4?  (12 x 3 = 36)   The Artemis Bonus would only be included in the Direct Fire value, not IDF.


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hellraiser on 16 December 2017, 16:42:33
LRM Carrier (Standard)
Issue:  Damage Value too low.
Comment:  Shouldn't the base Damage value be 4 at Medium/Long?   (12 x 3 = 36 /10 = 3.6 rounded to 4)

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 December 2017, 16:49:09
Did you check the ammo? Needs 10 rounds+ per launcher.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hellraiser on 16 December 2017, 17:55:21
Did you check the ammo? Needs 10 rounds+ per launcher.
Doh!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Ironclad82 on 16 December 2017, 20:49:54
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7145/voidseeker-mk-39-007-striker
The Voidseeker striker is listed as 14 points. I calculate that it should be 31 points
If I take the VoidSeeker Striker ship from the MUL; 3+4+4 for weapons=11, 8*1.5 for armor=12, 4 for structure =4; speed 6*0.25=1.5; ECM=2; Threshold 1*0.25=0.25 11+12+4+1.5+2=31
ASC pp. 142

[NCKestrel] Voidseeker Striker updated. Threshold should be 3 instead of 1, and the medium damage value counts twice, so the PV was higher.

Also
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7144/voidseeker-mk-39-004-interceptor
If I take the VoidSeeker Interceptor ship from the MUL; 4+4+1 for weapons=9, 7*1.5 for armor=10.5, 4 for structure =4; speed 7*0.25=1.75; PRB & RCN=4; Threshold 1*0.25=0.25 9+11+4+2+4=30

[NCKestrel] Voidseeker Interceptor updated. Threshold should be 3 instead of 1, and the medium damage value counts twice, so the PV was higher.
Thanks for pointing these out, definitely missed updating those PVs!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: fuzbuckle on 29 December 2017, 21:11:28
Timber Wolf Pryde alpha strike Short and Medium damage values are incorrect.  Correct values are 4/4/4 not 6/6/4.

calc:
ER LL x 2 = 2/2/2 & 24 heat
ER ML x 2 = 1.4/1.4/- & 10 heat
ER SL x 1 = .5/.5/- & 2 heat
LRM 20 x2 = 1.8/1.8/1.8 & 12 heat

Total damage 5.7/5.7/3.8
Total Heat Short = 52 (48 weapon + 4 move)
Total heat Medium = 52 (48 weapon + 4 move)
Total heat Long = 28 (24 weapon + 4 move)
Heat Dissipation = 32
Heat Modified Damage
Short: (5.7 × 32) ÷ (52 – 4) = 3.8 (round up to 4)
Medium: (5.7 × 32) ÷ (52 – 4) = 3.8 (round up to 4)
Long = 4 as total heat is less than dissipation at long range

[NCKestrel] Fixed. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 January 2018, 13:01:22
The FS & IS General in the Jihad timeframe does not have the IS Standard BA, GDL Scout, Clan Medium 'Rabid' available to them according to the MUL while FM3085 lists the BA in the RAT respectively at the #3, #5 and #18 positions per p218 of the PDF.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jshdncn on 11 January 2018, 17:14:09
Why does the Strider B get LRM1/1/1 when it has damage values 1/2/2? It’s entire armament is 2 LRM10s. Shouldn’t the damage and special values match?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 January 2018, 17:41:22
Damage values round but where values for specials do not round.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 January 2018, 18:02:30
Standard damage values round up. Special abilities round normal. So a 1.2 (two LRM-10s) would be 2 for standard M/L but a 1 for LRM.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 11 January 2018, 19:11:20
The FS & IS General in the Jihad timeframe does not have the IS Standard BA, GDL Scout, Clan Medium 'Rabid' available to them according to the MUL while FM3085 lists the BA in the RAT respectively at the #3, #5 and #18 positions per p218 of the PDF.

We would have to look at them but I suspect the field manual is incorrect. With that said, 3085 is the tail end of the Jihad era.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 January 2018, 19:20:22
For comparison . . .

IS Std BA is 3/5 on DC, 3/5/7 on CC, 7 on FWL, 4 on LC, 5/12 on merc and 7 on Republic
GDL Scout is 5 on LC, 7 on Merc, not on DC, CC, FWL or Republic
Rabid is 17 on DC, 21 on Republic and not on others

Since there is not a IS General RAT its hard IMO to say what that component would be for the MUL.  I am not saying they are widely available, but the MUL has the Fire Moth available to the FS or IS General for that period as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 04 February 2018, 12:54:52
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/590/chippewa-iic-standard

Correct Chippewa IIC image is available in Era Digest: Golden Century, p. 36.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 18 February 2018, 18:46:55

Revisiting an old question, so by this part " the Draconis Combine has at least one other Catapult assigned to Brion’s Legion, but no others have been deployed with any regular Kurita unit." is the assumption then that the Catapult in Brion's Legion is not a K2 series?  Also one other Catapult is listed in use by House Kurita, in the Shaw District, Barlow's End on 29 September 3026, piloted by Chu-i Isabella Armstrong of the Ryuken, (first line of pg 171 of chp 19 of Wolves on the Border)

So I guess I am question the totality of the extinction between 3020 and 3033 of the CPLT-K2.. or if it's just for all intents and purposes that the Catapult as a whole i extinct in House Kurita (or in such low numbers ass to be functionally extinct).  Mostly due to the various comments about how CGL and HBS are trying to work in lockstep with Canon, but HBS did recently announce the addition of the K2 to the game, (though admittedly in the forgotten reaches of the periphery, and so as such maybe has no bearing on it's "official" status in the Inner Sphere?)

I think I confused myself.  Sorry about that.



Opposite direction, it's ancient.
TR3025 Catapult entry says "One of House Kurita’s few Catapults was lost to Davion forces during the battle for the planet Hoff; the Draconis Combine has at least one other Catapult assigned to Brion’s Legion, but no others have been deployed with any regular Kurita unit.”  And that's for all Catapult's for Kurita.  Since Kurita has no Catapults from 3020 (Hoff was 3019) until some undefined later date that's at least post 3025, and only Kurita has K2s, there's no K2s after Hoff until Kurita starts new production of K2s in 3033.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 18 February 2018, 18:48:34
TR3025 also says the Zeus predates the Mackie.

It'd take anything and everything it says with a giant grain of salt.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Colt Ward on 18 February 2018, 22:12:09
I think the Lyran and maybe IS General armor column for the Jihad needs work- for instance FM3085 RAT has the Heimdall, Fensalir (HAG), Gurti, Fensalir, Demo II (Tbolt), DI Morgan, DI Morgan (LRM), Demo II, Demo II (MML), Alacorn Mk VII, Sturmfuer (HG), Behemoth, Fortune, Alacorn Mk VI and others are missing from the MUL.  I was just skimming the assault column in that and then comparing.  I would assume tanks were also left out in the other weight groups.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 February 2018, 22:50:56
I started checking on those, and several are already listed for Lyran Alliance.  The Demolisher IIs, DI Morgans, Alacorn Mk VII..
Perhaps you missed the Lyran Alliance being listed as a separate faction versus Lyran Commonwealth?
There's also a couple that looks like got missed when the Jihad era got extended later (intro year 3081-3085).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Colt Ward on 18 February 2018, 22:56:12
You are right, I did not check off Alliance since they had returned to being Commonwealth during the Jihad.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 19 February 2018, 00:58:49
citation?


TR3025 also says the Zeus predates the Mackie.

It'd take anything and everything it says with a giant grain of salt.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 19 February 2018, 01:16:16
citation?

TRO 3025 cites the Zeus's debut as either 2407 or 2410 depending on how you read the context of the date given (page 112).  The Mackie's introductory date is 2439.

What I'm getting at here is that TRO 3025 is not particularly well known for its accuracy.  I'd definitely try to find more supporting information and sources for anything it says.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 19 February 2018, 13:10:48
Other way around, Scotty. In this case TR3025 is being used as the authoritative source by NCKestrel. Bishop Steiner is under the impression that if the mentioned Catapults are K2s, then the design shouldn't be listed as extinct. This is incorrect. If a faction does not have a unit listed on the MUL for a given time period, it does not mean that literally none of them exist, only that they are vanishingly rare. The Shadow Hawk LAM, for example, was basically Extinct from its creation, but one was in a Steiner museum.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 20 February 2018, 00:04:09
Other way around, Scotty. In this case TR3025 is being used as the authoritative source by NCKestrel. Bishop Steiner is under the impression that if the mentioned Catapults are K2s, then the design shouldn't be listed as extinct. This is incorrect. If a faction does not have a unit listed on the MUL for a given time period, it does not mean that literally none of them exist, only that they are vanishingly rare. The Shadow Hawk LAM, for example, was basically Extinct from its creation, but one was in a Steiner museum.

I am under no such impression.  I am looking for what the "official" take is on said matters specifically for dealing with the fact that there seems to be no consensus as to what extinct means.  If there is, and I have missed it, that citation itself would work wonders.   

That said, since the citation in TRO 3025 (part A) was used in part to determine it's "extinction" then the same citation (pt b) should be just as "authoritative.

But I also admit, as someone who has used K2s in his 3025 era canon unit, for decades, only to get told at a con... "bruh those aren't legal" one year.... (because apparently someone had decided that suddenly they didn't exist AT ALL until 3033... wtf?), and being the guy who instigated the last MUL related update to them...

Yeah I probably have an agenda. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 20 February 2018, 00:35:30
Other way around, Scotty. In this case TR3025 is being used as the authoritative source by NCKestrel.

TR3025 Revised says the same.
TR3039 doesn't say anything specific about Catapults in Kurita until 3033, but states the Catapult was "completely ignored and it's numbers were dwindling" overall until Kurita started production in 3033. It also implies all of Kurita's Catapults came from taking Dieron.  IE. Kurita had one source from one time in the 1st SW. It definitely does not sound like it's attempting to retcon 3025's statements on Kurita's extremely limited numbers of Catapults in 3025.

(On the other hand, Battlepack: 4SW has three Kuritan forces each with a CPLT-C1 in 3028-3029.)

No CPLT-K2s post 3025 is perhaps a little strong.  Maybe one or two Kuritan's acquired Catapults and converted them to K2s on their own.  It's always possible. "Practically extinct" as you described should always be assumed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ColBosch on 20 February 2018, 00:37:15
But I also admit, as someone who has used K2s in his 3025 era canon unit, for decades, only to get told at a con... "bruh those aren't legal" one year.... (because apparently someone had decided that suddenly they didn't exist AT ALL until 3033... wtf?)

I understand that. I am deeply annoyed that someone would declare that you can't use a CPLT-K2 in a game simply because it doesn't appear as available to Kuritans in that time period. That is a misuse of the Master Unit List. It was never meant to be the be-all, end-all of what a player can and cannot use in games. Even if the K2 is rare enough to not warrant MUL availability in those 13 years, it is certainly a thematically-appropriate unit for 3025ish Kuritan forces. Telling you that you couldn't use it was petty, and I am very sorry that it happened.

While I am no longer a BattleTech or MUL contributor, I can say that the use of the Master Unit List to dictate unit availability by faction is strictly optional. There are few - if any - formal, printed rules for using the MUL, and players, GMs, and event organizers should be certain that everyone involved in a game or tournament is in agreement as to any restrictions they feel it imposes. I strongly urge that people running tournaments retain the utmost flexibility in interpreting the Master Unit List. The Alpha Strike Combat Manuals give rules specifically tailored to allow factions to use rare or captured units; I would highly recommend using a variant of those.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 20 February 2018, 07:07:59
And as for HBS using the K2, we know why they’ve added it. Sometimes there are forces beyond canon, and you do the best you can with what you have. Harassing them over canon when they’re just trying to give you a fun option when legally they can’t put in the preferred option doesn’t help.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 March 2018, 02:15:02
Notice the Katya is missing off the CapCon list for the Jihad- produced in '67 and IIRC exclusive to the Confederation.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 06 March 2018, 06:21:43
All four Katya are already on the CapCon list for the Jihad.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 March 2018, 08:01:55
Maybe for production, but I was looking for just availability and the only 30t airframe on that list is Sparrowhawk H5.  When I looked up on Sarna and MM, I only found 3 Katyas, -904, -905, -906.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 06 March 2018, 08:30:09
Maybe for production, but I was looking for just availability and the only 30t airframe on that list is Sparrowhawk H5.  When I looked up on Sarna and MM, I only found 3 Katyas, -904, -905, -906.

We don't have production on the MUL, so I'm not sure what you are refering to.
Katya C-904 is Capellan Confederation for Civil War and Jihad, and CC, FW, Merc, Periphery and Republic for Early Republic
RL15, RL10 and Fuel variants are exactly the same.

When I go the faction tab, select Capellan Confederation, Civil War (or Jihad) and then Aerospace, all four Katyas show up.

Are you using the unit search and select Capellan Confederation as faction?  If so, make sure to uncheck the box that only shows units with BV.  The Katyas don't have BVs entered, so won't show up in the default unit search that has BV required checked.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Colt Ward on 06 March 2018, 08:32:05
Then that sounds likely, what I was referring two was the 2 buttons at the bottom of the selection 'Production Era' and 'Availability Era'
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 06 March 2018, 18:46:51
production era refers only to the initial era that it was produced and not all eras that it was produced.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 12 March 2018, 11:48:51
A note about some changes to AS unit cards in the MUL.  Dak created some new templates, including some additional unit types. Skyhigh has finished implementing them on the site, so we now have separate templates for BattleMechs, Aerospace,  Vehicles, ProtoMechs and Infantry.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 12 March 2018, 22:42:26
I feel like the Ahab AHB-443's availability during the Star League should be flip-flopped with the AHB-X. The AHB-443, with its NARC technology, is NOT available to the SLDF. The AHB-X is a more primitive version, mounting no special tech, and is not available to the Great Houses?

It seems far more likely that the Star League would have allowed the AHB-X to be sold to the Member States and the AHB-443 reserved for its own military.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nahuris on 13 March 2018, 16:40:27
The entry for the Assassin Skaret Assassins, Jarnfolk is listed as one squad, and one ton on the list, but the card has a CAR2 in the specials ... just a quick heads up.

Thanks in Advance
Nahuris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alexander Knight on 13 March 2018, 23:10:30
The entry for the Assassin Skaret Assassins, Jarnfolk is listed as one squad, and one ton on the list, but the card has a CAR2 in the specials ... just a quick heads up.

Thanks in Advance
Nahuris

Weight should be 1.5 tons for one squad, they're Paratroopers.  AS card is correct.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: atlask on 15 March 2018, 19:25:57
Correction.. looks like all vehicles are missing skills
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/860/demolisher-heavy-tank-defensive

The Mobile Long Tom Artillery Cards are missing skills on their cards.
Mobile Long Tom Artillery Ammunition Carriage LT-MOB-25
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2203/mobile-long-tom-artillery-ammunition-carriage-lt-mob-25

Mobile Long Tom Artillery LT-MOB-25
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2202/mobile-long-tom-artillery-lt-mob-25

Mobile Long Tom Artillery Support Carriage LT-MOB-25
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2204/mobile-long-tom-artillery-support-carriage-lt-mob-25
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 16 March 2018, 00:40:48
When will the FLE-16 be added from TRO succession Wars?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 16 March 2018, 01:10:29
I just read TRO Succession Wars and it stated the only Firestarter model that ceased production was the -A variant. So the -K model should still have limited availability as the -H model was the dominant production model not sole.

Bump - any thoughts on this mods?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 March 2018, 09:25:26
When will the FLE-16 be added from TRO succession Wars?

When we do it.  We're overworked, unpaid volunteers (ok, probably redundant), we get to it when we get to it. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 March 2018, 09:26:53
Weight should be 1.5 tons for one squad, they're Paratroopers.  AS card is correct.

I have now corrected the MUL's tonnage listing for them to 1.5.  It displays as 2 though because the site rounds up tonnage...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 March 2018, 09:28:26
I feel like the Ahab AHB-443's availability during the Star League should be flip-flopped with the AHB-X. The AHB-443, with its NARC technology, is NOT available to the SLDF. The AHB-X is a more primitive version, mounting no special tech, and is not available to the Great Houses?

It seems far more likely that the Star League would have allowed the AHB-X to be sold to the Member States and the AHB-443 reserved for its own military.

The AHB-X was a prototype, regardless of technology, it was never widespread. Thus it never got a non-X designation.  The spread it does have likely has more to do with us being unsure where the prototype served, if anything it should be more restricted.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 16 March 2018, 17:31:49
When we do it.  We're overworked, unpaid volunteers (ok, probably redundant), we get to it when we get to it.

@nckestrel - understood mate and no offence intended. all the volunteers do a great job!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 17 March 2018, 13:04:29
The AHB-X was a prototype, regardless of technology, it was never widespread. Thus it never got a non-X designation.  The spread it does have likely has more to do with us being unsure where the prototype served, if anything it should be more restricted.
Would this then mean that NARC missile beacon ammo was sold to every House? As well as NARC-compatible munitions?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sigil on 17 March 2018, 19:55:24
The MUL lists the Tokugawa Heavy Tank (Standard) with a introduction date of 3053 and gives the downgraded -150 version with a date of 2792.

TRO: 3058 Upgrade pg. 102, says the first Tokugawa's were released during the First Succession War.  The downgraded -150 came *after* the release of the original design.  There was a period of time between its introduction and the later downgrade in which the standard version was available. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 March 2018, 23:17:08
The MUL lists the Tokugawa Heavy Tank (Standard) with a introduction date of 3053 and gives the downgraded -150 version with a date of 2792.

TRO: 3058 Upgrade pg. 102, says the first Tokugawa's were released during the First Succession War.  The downgraded -150 came *after* the release of the original design.  There was a period of time between its introduction and the later downgrade in which the standard version was available.

 "in the wake of that (Luthien) action..produced an improved Tokugawa that entered service in 3053."
"in the decade and a half since the upgraded version entered service"
The -150 was the original 2792 and the 3046 returned model, the upgrade (standard) didn't exist until 3053.
The text about the Tokugawa being released during the First Succession War is not specific to the medium pulse laser/lbx model, it's referring to the initial service date for the overall Tokugawa chassis.
 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nahuris on 18 March 2018, 03:47:23
Weight should be 1.5 tons for one squad, they're Paratroopers.  AS card is correct.

Cool, so paratroopers are 1.5 tons, then... does that include Tau Wraiths, as they have PARA... in addition, in the list part, where it shows all of the infantry, both are listed at 1 ton, there.

Nahuris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: DarkJaguar on 21 March 2018, 15:37:34
I don't own a copy of TRO 3085, so I'm not able to verify with an official source, but Sarna states that the armament of an LGB-8V Longbow (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1938/longbow-lgb-8v) is two Arrow IV's with 8 tons of ammo and a single pulse laser, while the MUL Entry (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1938/longbow-lgb-8v) gives it the ARTAIS-2 special and far more firepower (and an OV value) than could be gained by a single pulse laser of any type could grant.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 21 March 2018, 15:50:53
Sarna is incorrect.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wrangler on 23 March 2018, 21:55:28
Sarna entry has been corrected now stating that the Longbow 8V has 2 Medium Pulse Lasers, 1 ER Large, 10 rounds of missiles per launcher for the two Arrow IVs.  Battle value is from Record Sheet, which matches MUL entry.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 03 April 2018, 00:50:36
These IndustrialMechs exist in the Reunification War book, but the MUL dates have them as being made after the war's conclusion. They are anachronisms.

BC Buster XV (Standard)
BC Buster XV (AC)
BC Buster XV (PPC)

Crosscut ED-X2 (Standard)
Crosscut ED-X2 (Rocket)
Crosscut ED-X2 (Flamer)

Daedalus GTX-2
Daedalus GTX-2 (Militarized)

Harvester Ant
Harvester Ant (LRM)
Harvester Ant (MG)

Powerman LoaderMech (Standard)
Powerman LoaderMech (Laser)
Powerman LoaderMech (SRM)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: DarkJaguar on 05 April 2018, 16:33:03
Genadier II D battle armor lists the Tube Artillery special as ART-BA
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7393/grenadier-ii-battle-armor-d

while the Centaur Battle Armor lists the ability as ARTBA-1
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6651/centaur-battle-armor-standard

Also, I don't believe Battle Armor Tube artillery is experimental tech any longer, so both units should be advanced and not experimental tech base if I'm correct? (Ref, Tac Ops pg. 284 lists them as Advanced, not experimental).


Xotl: Corrected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mbear on 04 May 2018, 16:15:27
All Revenant variants have wrong identifier. The core model is correctly listed as UBM-2R. All the other variants are listed as UM-2R*. According to TRO:3145 and RS:3145 Unabridged, this is incorrect. Variants should be listed as UBM-2R*.


Xotl: Corrected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 09 May 2018, 06:57:29
page 102 of '3039 unabridged record sheets' has the BV for the Condor (Davion) at 577 but the MUL has 592, which one is correct?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 09 May 2018, 10:57:03
BV rules have had errata since 3039 Unabridged was released.  The MUL is much easier to update than the record sheet PDFs.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 24 June 2018, 19:47:20
bump - any opinion on modified availability for the -K?

Any thoughts on the availability of the -K model fire starter for SW era?

Given the 'Mirage' had only one year of production and is available to Steiner in Late SW plus the TRO has the only model not in production is the -A variant. The -H variant was described as the dominant production model.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 24 June 2018, 23:21:56
Any thoughts on the availability of the -K model fire starter for SW era?

Given the 'Mirage' had only one year of production and is available to Steiner in Late SW plus the TRO has the only model not in production is the -A variant. The -H variant was described as the dominant production model.

The statement that "one variant that has ceased production" is not meant to imply it is the only variant that has ceased production.  It also says "a number of variants..were built during the period Argile still operated on Skye.."  Argile was destroyed on Skye during the 3rd Succession War, so all the Firestarters from Argile ceased production.  The later statement that one variant ceased production "during hte period Argile still operated on Skye" can't possibly mean Argile was still producing any Firestarter variant after the factory was destroyed. So it also can't mean the -K was still in production.
The -K was never made by Coventry, and Argile only produced a very few post-2703. Perhaps there's still a handful somewhere, but it's questionable. Extinct is a better answer than saying any specific faction has any.  IE. It would be less misleading to continue saying extinct than to change the answer.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Mendrugo on 25 June 2018, 09:30:04
Question on the availability of the DRG-1G Grand Dragon - listed in the MUL as introduced in 3024.  Were those just field refits, or did LAW start making the design at that point?  I ask because, in "Warrior: Riposte," Yorinaga Kurita's son recounts using a freshly manufactured Grand Dragon he was taking out for a shakedown run at an Alshain 'Mech factory to drive off bandits who had come to the factory to steal Panthers.

Did Alshain Weapons manufacture the Grand Dragon in the 3020s, then close the line before 3054 (when Objective Raids was published)?  (Per Objective Raids, their ER PPC line on Tok Do supplies that component to LAW on Luthien for construction.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 26 June 2018, 01:17:48
The statement that "one variant that has ceased production" is not meant to imply it is the only variant that has ceased production.  It also says "a number of variants..were built during the period Argile still operated on Skye.."  Argile was destroyed on Skye during the 3rd Succession War, so all the Firestarters from Argile ceased production.  The later statement that one variant ceased production "during hte period Argile still operated on Skye" can't possibly mean Argile was still producing any Firestarter variant after the factory was destroyed. So it also can't mean the -K was still in production.
The -K was never made by Coventry, and Argile only produced a very few post-2703. Perhaps there's still a handful somewhere, but it's questionable. Extinct is a better answer than saying any specific faction has any.  IE. It would be less misleading to continue saying extinct than to change the answer.

Hello, I appreciate your response and all the volunteers on here are awesome.

The only thing I would add is that based on your thoughts above, then the 'Mirage' variant would also be considered extinct. From 2703 to 2893 approximately 7790 -H Firestarters (190 years multiplied by 41 mechs* per year) were built at Argyle prior to factory destruction then the 41 Mirage models produced account for 0.5%.....by definition extinct.

If it is not considered extinct then the -K model would have had 190 years of potentially sporadic production and also maintains the same armour profile as the -H model.

Anyway....just thoughts.

*You can work out mechs per year as TRO3025 states 3000 Firestarters were produced between 2703 and 2776
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Zanzanar on 30 June 2018, 17:16:05
The Warhammer IIC 10 and 11 and the Marauder IIC 8 have clearly too early intro dates.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6859/warhammer-iic-10 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6859/warhammer-iic-10) 2938
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6858/warhammer-iic-11 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6858/warhammer-iic-11) 2938
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2072/marauder-iic-8 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2072/marauder-iic-8) 3025
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 01 July 2018, 08:44:03
The Warhammer IIC 10 and 11 and the Marauder IIC 8 have clearly too early intro dates.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6859/warhammer-iic-10 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6859/warhammer-iic-10) 2938
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6858/warhammer-iic-11 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6858/warhammer-iic-11) 2938
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2072/marauder-iic-8 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2072/marauder-iic-8) 3025

They are old models that the IS didn’t learn of till much later.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Zanzanar on 02 July 2018, 10:55:57
They are old models that the IS didn’t learn of till much later.

The Warhammer IIC 11 uses heavy lasers though.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: BLOODWOLF on 03 July 2018, 18:03:41
The Centurion CNT-1A fighter from Record Sheets: 3075 Unabridged - Age of War pg. 131 is overweight by 2 tons and Megamek is rejecting it as an illegal design.  Hammer may have brought this unit up already?

Code: [Select]
23:04:21,882 ERROR [megamek.server.Server] {Packet Pump}
Chassis: Centurion CNT-1A (BLOODWOLF) - IS_Experimental (2430)
Movement: 8/12
Weight: 32.0 is greater than 30.0
Engine: 220 Fusion 10.00
Primitive Cockpit: 5.00
Fuel: 5.00
Heat Sinks: 10 0.00
Armor: 96 (Primitive Fighter) 9.00
Equipment:
Medium Laser NOS 1.00
Medium Laser RWG 1.00
Medium Laser LWG 1.00
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 July 2018, 20:16:29
That should go to the Record Sheets 3075 errata thread.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 July 2018, 07:26:21
The Warhammer IIC 11 uses heavy lasers though.

Excellent point, and RS 3145 lists both as Dark Age.  Kicking this to the team to see what needs to be fixed. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xiwo Xerase on 04 July 2018, 14:21:05
The Ursa URA-2A (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6627/ursa-ura-2a) and Ursa URA-2C (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6628/ursa-ura-2c) have faction availabilities listed for the Early Republic era.  However, the 'Mechs were introduced in the Late Republic era (3122 and 3125 respectively) and did not exist during the Early Republic era.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 July 2018, 17:10:45
The Ursa URA-2A (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6627/ursa-ura-2a) and Ursa URA-2C (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6628/ursa-ura-2c) have faction availabilities listed for the Early Republic era.  However, the 'Mechs were introduced in the Late Republic era (3122 and 3125 respectively) and did not exist during the Early Republic era.

Thanks, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xiwo Xerase on 13 July 2018, 13:39:44
The Puma Assault Tank PAT-007 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2601/puma-assault-tank-pat-007) has faction availabilities listed for the Civil War era.  However, the tank was not introduced until 3069 and did not exist during the Civil War era.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 13 July 2018, 13:41:10
The Puma Assault Tank PAT-007 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2601/puma-assault-tank-pat-007) has faction availabilities listed for the Civil War era.  However, the tank was not introduced until 3069 and did not exist during the Civil War era.

Fixed, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 21 July 2018, 08:55:06
MUL has the introduction date for the Blackjack BJ-3 as 3042 yet the description in the TRO says it was produced during the 4th SW by the St Ives Compact which would put the latest production date as 3030.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 21 July 2018, 10:10:17
MUL has the introduction date for the Blackjack BJ-3 as 3042 yet the description in the TRO says it was produced during the 4th SW by the St Ives Compact which would put the latest production date as 3030.
The blackjack history was a mess of conflicting information. We put a different blackjack as the experiment during the 4th sw, it is intentionally not the -3.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: DarkJaguar on 22 July 2018, 18:46:35
Corsair CSR-V12b (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/694/corsair-csr-v12b)
Is listed with the BOMB1 special, it should have the BOMB2 special (as per conversion rules on page 121 of the Alpha Strike Companion).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starbuck on 29 July 2018, 06:35:18
i think both AS cards for the Anzu are incorrect.

ZU-G60 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6510/anzu-zu-g60)

should not have OV2.
heat dissipation is 20, maximum heat is 26*
running the math for OV calculation gives OV0 for short range and OV1 for medium range

unmodified damage is 2.675 / 3.1 / 2.6

OV1 would make this 2 / 3 / 3 final damage

*
8   (2x4 [Ultra10]
4   (LRM10)
5   (Er Med)
5   (LightPPC w/capacitor)
4   (jump)

--------------------------------------

ZU-J70 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6511/anzu-zu-j70)

is statted with damage 4 / 3 / 1 with OV1

only long range weapon is a MML7, which deals 0.4 damage at long range, which should translate to 0* long range damage.

heat dissipation is 20, max heat is 31*
running the math for OV calculation gives OV1 for short range and OV2 for medium range

unmodified damage is 4.6 / 4.05 / 0.4

OV2 would make this 3 / 3 / 0* final damage

*
6   (RAC/5)
4   (MML7)
2   (ER Small)
5   (ER Med)
10   (Snubnose PPC)
4   (jump)

--------------------------------------

note: i do not have the record sheets, so maybe i missed something. it would be great if someone could check my calculations.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 29 July 2018, 15:11:12
 I'm almost certain that the capacitor on the LPPC is to blame for the first variant (whether there's an error or not that's where it's going to be) because there's a fair chance it's going to contribute 10 heat instead of 5.

I'll check the J70 in a bit.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 29 July 2018, 16:36:05
Alright, had a chance to review the conversions.  You're entirely correct on the G60.  It should have OV1 instead of OV2.

On the J70 there is a problem, but not exactly the way you describe.  The unmodified damage is correct, but OV2 doesn't mean "reduce short range damage by 2", it still uses the heat-modified damage and rounds normally.  A short range value or 4.6 with that heat level will be reduced to 3.407, which rounds up to 4.  The long range damage will definitely end up as 0* though, for the reasons you cited.

Final damage value should be 4 / 3 / 0* with OV2.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xiwo Xerase on 31 July 2018, 18:13:07
Basilisk 3 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3799/basilisk-3) is listed as having a MV of 8"j/10"j.  This should probably be 8"/10"j.

Waneta S-WN-2LAM (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5380/waneta-s-wn-2lam) is listed as having an MV of 8"12"j.  This should probably be 8"/12"j.

Pollux II ADA Heavy Tank (Standard) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7401/pollux-ii-ada-heavy-tank-standard) has a special listed as ART-AIS1 (also listed in the turret).  This should probably be changed to ARTAIS-1 to match other units.

Apostle Self-Propelled Artillery (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7414/apostle-self-propelled-artillery) has a special listed as ART-S1.  This should probably be changed to ARTS-1 to match other units.

Reaper Self-Propelled Artillery (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7413/reaper-self-propelled-artillery) has a special listed as ART-T1.  This should probably be changed to ARTT-1 to match other units.


Xotl: Updated, thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starbuck on 01 August 2018, 07:36:54
hey Scotty,
thanks for checking.

. . .  The unmodified damage is correct, but OV2 doesn't mean "reduce short range damage by 2", it still uses the heat-modified damage and rounds normally.  A short range value or 4.6 with that heat level will be reduced to 3.407, which rounds up to 4.  . . .

Final damage value should be 4 / 3 / 0* with OV2.

ah, okay, got it.

so in this case the Anzu - and i suppose there are more mechs out there -, with a (unmodified) maximum short range damage of 5, gains one potential extra damage point by OV calculation. nice cheat  :D  ;D
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 10 August 2018, 11:35:02
The Warhammer IIC 10 and 11 and the Marauder IIC 8 have clearly too early intro dates.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6859/warhammer-iic-10 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6859/warhammer-iic-10) 2938
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6858/warhammer-iic-11 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6858/warhammer-iic-11) 2938
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2072/marauder-iic-8 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2072/marauder-iic-8) 3025

Warhammer IIC 10 and 11 have intro dates moved to Late Republic.  Thanks for pointing those out.

I misplaced/lost some of the conversation, so this is being reviewed again. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 25 August 2018, 00:29:53
In case people didn't see the relevant thread in the Alpha Strike forums, the AS PV update has been rolled out onto the MUL.  Please ensure that you're using the updated PV calculation formula as found in the ASC errata if you're reporting any PV errors.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starbuck on 15 September 2018, 11:52:19
Ballista Self Propelled Artillery Tank (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6775/ballista-self-propelled-artillery-tank-standard)

TRO entry and record sheet in Historical - Liberation of Terra Vol. 2

Ballista has three MGs - two in the front, one in the rear - so it should have a damage output of 0*/0/0 not 1/0/0.

and a question:
several units, who have their artillery weapons in a turret (Ballista, Regulator Hover, ...), do not have the TUR(ARTxx) special. is there a reason for this? i could not find an explanation . . .
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GespenstM on 16 September 2018, 08:34:11
Mad Cat Mk. IV C Alpha Strike Calculations Error

Unit: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6573/mad-cat-mk-iv-savage-wolf-c

Error: The Alpha Strike damage values for this unit appear to be incorrect. My math below (Scotty ran identical calculations in another thread) reveals what seems to be a case of 'left out the XXL Engine heat'.

Long Range Damage Calculation (2x LRM-15 with Artemis V, 2x Clan ER Large Laser, 30 heat dissipation, XXL Engine): 1.26 + 1.26 + 1 + 1 = 4.52. Then (4.52 * 30) / (38 - 4) = 3.988 = Round to 4.

The stat card says 5.

Similar behavior exists in the Short and Mid range calculations, where I wind up with 4.3 damage after rounding. It appears like the XXL engine heat was instead calculated as standard engine heat (2 heat instead of the proper 4), resulting in damage values a bit higher than they should be. I think the correct damage for the Mad Cat Mk. IV C is 4 across all ranges.

(I also suspect, but have not checked in detail, that the other Mad Cat Mk IVs have the same issue. Eyeballing the damage on them makes me think 'aren't most of those 1 point higher than they should be?')
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 September 2018, 08:51:15
The Long range on the Mad Cat Mk IV C should be 4 (and reducing PV to 57).
The Medium and Short range 4.3 rounds up to 5 (non special damage always rounds up).  So no change there.

Thanks. I'll go through the other Mad Cat Mk IV's as I have time.

Prime dropped at S and M and added OV (PV adjusted as well).  A and B were fine.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 September 2018, 09:09:38
Ballista Self Propelled Artillery Tank (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6775/ballista-self-propelled-artillery-tank-standard)
Thanks, corrected.
Quote
and a question:
several units, who have their artillery weapons in a turret (Ballista, Regulator Hover, ...), do not have the TUR(ARTxx) special. is there a reason for this? i could not find an explanation . . .
The artillery rules in the first/second printing don't have firing arcs, so there was no need to specify they are in a turret.
With the new standard rules artillery in the errata, they do have firing arcs, so yeah we will need to go through and update those.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GespenstM on 16 September 2018, 10:00:42
Thanks! Just to confirm before I go reporting any other units for Alpha Strike math... any unit with a decimal damage value (other than the 0 to 0.5 'minimum damage rule' situation) always rounds up to the next integer? Even if the decimal is #.01 to #.49?

For example, I'm checking out the Mad Cat Mk. II ( http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4565/mad-cat-mk-ii-standard ) and I wind up with...

Close Calculation: 1.245 (Gauss) + 1.245 (Gauss) + 0.6 (LRM-10) + 0.6 (LRM-10) + 0.7 (ERML) + 0.7 (ERML) + 0.7 (ERML) + 0.7 (ERML) = 6.49 base damage before heat modifiers.
Close modified by heat: (6.49 * 28 HeatDissipation) / (32 MaxHeat - 4 ) = 6.49
Close Rounded to Final: 7

Mid Calculation: 1.5 (Gauss) + 1.5 (Gauss) + 2.8 (4x ERML) + 1.2 (2x LRM-10) = 7.0
Modified by heat: Works out to 7.0, skipping further calculations on Mid

Long Calculation: 3.0 (2x Gauss) + 1.2 (2x LRM-10) = 4.2
No long modification for heat required in this case, so 4.2 rounds up to 5.

Resulting in the 7/7/5 we see on the MUL. Is this right? If so, I'll take a look at a few others to make sure my calculations are right before making any further reports.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 September 2018, 10:08:06
Yes, round up. Unless it’s a special ability (lrm, srm, flk, if, etc), special abilities are round normal.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 16 September 2018, 14:14:47
That's correct, and why the Bombast Laser (1.02 damage) is hilarious in Alpha Strike conversions.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: LordVanquish on 18 September 2018, 07:00:15
I think the PV of this unit is wrong:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3457/vtol-infantry-hachiman-taro-enterprise-extraction-force (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3457/vtol-infantry-hachiman-taro-enterprise-extraction-force)

calculated by hand:

offensive = 1

movement = 1.25
DIR = ((2*1 + 2*2) * 1.2) = 7.2 => 7
total defensive = 1.25 + 7 = 8.25

total PV = 1 + 8.25 = 9.25 => 9
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wrangler on 21 September 2018, 10:47:24
None of the Units listed Handbook House Kurita are in the MUL.
I did double checked the MUL, they are still not there.

Are they still going be still added?  Do you guys need me give you page numbers etc?

• Heavy Riot Infantry
• Dragonstar Passenger Transport
• Hoshiryokou
• Gaajian System Patrol Boat
• Obuzaabaa Tactical Vehicle & Sasayaku Control Transport
• Gossamer Surveillance Drone
• Wakamiya Salvage Destroyer


 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 25 September 2018, 07:03:38
I was looking at the Marksman Artillery Vehicle (Standard) and it is listed as general IS availability in the late SW yet it comes with ferro armor?

I thought Ferro would make it not available in this era?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 25 September 2018, 20:38:20
I think that one should be extinct in renaissance.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 15 October 2018, 18:10:50
Suggestion: Add the "Royal" variants to the Member States and Associate Member States from Era Report: 2750, which were available as per page 143:
Quote
To reflect Star League designs and technology creeping into the rest of the Inner Sphere, any unit on the Random Assignment Table that is noted with an asterisk (*) also has a “Royal” model available for play that is normally only found in Star League divisions, but may appear outside of SLDF ranks due to field modifications or other sources. To determine which model may be used, the controlling player must make a special 2D6 roll after the unit is selected. If this “Royal Check” equals or exceeds 10, the “Royal” model may be used. Otherwise, the player must choose the standard model. These Royal designs may be found in Record Sheets: Operation Klondike (RSOK) unless otherwise noted.


Below is a list of all those with Royal variants available, some of which have already been added to the MUL as-described, while some have not.

Inner Sphere General
CRD-3R Crusader
HER-1Sb Hermes
LCT-1Vb Locust
OTT-7Jb Ostscout
STK-3Fb Stalker
STG-3Gb Stinger
THE-N Thorn
WHM-6Rb Warhammer

Periphery General
CRD-3R Crusader
LCT-1Vb Locust
OTT-7Jb Ostscout
STK-3Fb Stalker
STG-3Gb Stinger
THE-N Thorn
TDR-5Sb2 Thunderbolt

Capellan Confederation
CHP-2N Champion
OSR-2Cb Ostroc
 
Draconis Combine
ARC-2Rb Archer
STN-3Lb Sentinel
TDR-5Sb2 Thunderbolt
WHM-6Rb Warhammer

Federated Suns
ARC-2Rb Archer
TDR-5Sb2 Thunderbolt

Free Worlds League
OSR-2Cb Ostroc
TDR-5Sb2 Thunderbolt

Lyran Commonwealth
OSR-2Cb Ostroc
FLC-4Nb Falcon

Rim Worlds Republic
HER-1Sb Hermes
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 17 October 2018, 21:29:38
After setting up a complete set of factories for our online campaign, I did notice that there was a notable lack of advanced tech in the RWA, despite the language of FR:2765:

This seems to indicate that, for 12 years, the Imperial Divisions were modernizing with SLDF equipment. Feels like some of the TRO:2750 designs would be listed in the "Rim Worlds Republic: Home Guard", such as those listed in 2765 on page 18 (Black Knight, Excalibur, Highlander, King Crab) and on page 19 (Atlas).

Surely, these advanced designs went with the Liberation Army to Terra, but for those 12 years, they were in the Republic proper. I'm sure it's come up before, but just asking if you guys can take a look. The list feels a bit "anemic" for a force capable of defeating the SLDF on its home ground. :)
Bump on this one. Any word on it? And if "no," what would the reasoning be? I ask because factories are a part of an ongoing campaign, so it'd be helpful :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 20 October 2018, 18:46:04
Add card for Thrush TR-5 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5227/thrush-tr-5): Identical to TR-7 but with Ferro Aluminum armor
Add Transit TR-9 (entry and card): Identical to TR-10 but with Ferro Aluminum armor--2 additional armor points aft and 15 rounds of AC ammo
(Both fighter's variants described in Second Succession War, p. 110, and Field Report 2765: CCAF, p. 18.)


Replace Star Dagger (Unknown) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5122/star-dagger-unknown) with Star Dagger S-2B:  Same as S-2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5123/star-dagger-s-2) but with standard components. Replace engine with 240 rating. Replace small laser with medium laser. Armor layout is 34/22/18
Described in Second Succession War, p. 110, and I found an old post about it from nckestrel (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=10373.msg842345#msg842345).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GespenstM on 04 November 2018, 09:49:42
Mad Cat III Standard might be Missing a Faction

Unit: Mad Cat III Standard

Link: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4561/mad-cat-iii-standard (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4561/mad-cat-iii-standard)

Overview: I believe the Mad Cat III Standard should be added to the Mercenary unit list for Early Republic, Late Republic, and Dark Ages.

Reasoning and Evidence: The other models of Mad Cat III are listed as Mercenary units, and no special lore exists to establish why they wouldn't buy the Standard model as well. Additionally, page 148 of TRO: Experimental states "the Diamond Sharks are readily selling the Mad Cat III to every interested buyer." It lists several Houses in particular, but I imagine mercenaries would want this machine too.

Additionally, Mercenaries are listed as buyers for most other 'for Inner Sphere purchasers' Mad Cats, such as Mad Cat Mk. II and Mad Cat Mk. IV.

Edit: Further, the Kell Hounds and Wolf's Dragoons are also listed as users for the Standard model.

Suggested Change: Add Mad Cat III (Standard) to Mercenary listings for those three eras (Early Republic, Late Republic, Dark Ages).

Thank you for your time!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Stinger on 06 December 2018, 12:06:01
Thor II E is missing from the MUL

The variant appeared only in the 3150 book and not in the original 3145 rendition. It has a full stat line, not just a description, and should be easy to include with a proper BV and AS card.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hellraiser on 09 December 2018, 19:20:23
Fast Recon Cavalry Point, 67th BattleMech Cluster, Iota Galaxy
 
Unit Type Infantry - Conventional Infantry - Wheeled



Hi,  this should be listed as Hover infantry, not wheeled.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 18 December 2018, 11:44:32
The Eagle EGL-R6 aerospace fighter does not have a star to indicate it was featured in a TRO - it is found in TRO:3075 (pg 264)

edit: Add the Lightning LTN-G15 (pg 251). I suspect there are more 3075 units lurking as well

edit2: by more I mean every fighter except the Hellcat

The List:
Shade S-HA-O (98)
Rusalka S-RSL-O (100)
Striga S-STR-O (102)
Sabre SB-27 (212)
Centurion CNT-1D (230)
Lightning LTN-G15 (250)
Eagle EGL-R6 (264)
Deathstalker F-77 (266)
Typhoon TFN-2A (284)
Thunderbird TRB-D36 (286)
Vulcan VLC-5N (302)

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: martian on 23 December 2018, 14:34:56
* VERSION: MUL Online
* LOCATION: GOL-6M Goliath (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1238/goliath-gol-6m)
* THE ERROR: MUL Online shows BV of 2006, but Record Sheets: 3085 - Project Phoenix lists the BV of the 'Mech as 1742.
Perhaps when the BV of GOL-5W Goliath was changed from 2030 to 2006 points in October 2015, somebody has changed the BV of GOL-6M by mistake too?
* THE CORRECTION: Return the BV of GOL-6M Goliath back to 1742.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rom Precentor on 28 January 2019, 15:01:15
Any chance that there could be a quick start record sheet generator on the MUL as well?  I ask because while it would help me with con/demo games but I think it would also help draw in more players yet not compete with the existing record sheet line. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 February 2019, 13:49:25
Would it be possible to get some sort of FAQ-style answer for the definition of "Extinct"? I feel like I've gotten different answers from different people on the team over the years (this may be because the official answer actually changed over time)

Is it:
A) All Dead: Definitely totally 100% gone excepting potentially unknown examples forgotten by the sands of time (e.g. a Star League Vault uncovered by a plucky mercenary outfit)
B) Mostly Dead: Gone from essentially every military (and possibly public memory), but a few working examples continue to be put into service in secret/out of sight (e.g. the ComGuards or a home clan dezgra garrison)
C) Not quite dead: some, but not enough to make it on any faction's availability lists
D) Some combination or variation of the above
E) none of the above
F) The rules are made up and the points don't matter

thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 02 February 2019, 14:18:31
If it actually says Extinct, then there are no known (in universe) examples of that unit in a military force and it is believed by everyone to no longer be in service anywhere.
The MUL is about combat deployment, and informing players what is in use. It could be in a museum, or hidden in a star league cache, or maybe somebody has one and the rest of the Inner Sphere doesn't know about.  None of those count.

The MUL isn't interested in being a straight-jacket.  We're a tool to assist, not to beat people with.  If a player wants an extinct mech, it's their (local) game.  If a writer wants one in a story, it's an exception.  We move on.  We informed and people did what they wanted and good for them.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Elmoth on 11 February 2019, 17:41:24
Hello there,

I am not fully sure this should go here, but I will shot anyway to see what I get from you :)

I am sure I am a moron, but I do not know how to

1. Search the MUL from my phone. I can search for specific units normally (type "Karnov" in the search field) but I do not know how to use filters.

2. I do not know how to search for features or characteristics like mechs with 10"+ inch move, or transports with IT3 in their characteristics.

Are those 2 things possible? I m sure they are but I do not know how to do it, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a lot!
Xavi
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 February 2019, 18:17:44
Filters are not available on the mobile site.
There is no move search on either site unfortunately.
The desktop site has a search for AS abilities under the Alpha Strike section.  You'd just type IT3 into the text box for AS Abilities.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jshdncn on 23 February 2019, 08:58:20
The Gladiator(Executioner) I should have a movement of 12”/8”j since it has a supercharger and MASC system, not 10”/8”j.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hayden. on 26 February 2019, 01:43:57
Swift Wind Scout Car should be available to the St. Ives faction for the duration of that faction's existence per TRO 3039, Pg. 12:
"Only a few dozen Swift Winds can be found outside the Capellan Confederation (or the short-lived St. Ives Compact), with most of those “foreign” Swift Winds operated by mercenary units that served House Liao well. With the secession of St. Ives, Swift Winds actually competed against one another as the Confederation mounts raids against its former state."

***

Apollo APL-1M should not be available to the Fed Com/Fed Suns/Lyrans/St. Ives/Rasalhauge in the Clan Invasion or Civil War era per TRO 3055, Pg. 57
"Earthwerks has been instructed to refuse any Federated Commonwealth, St. Ives Compact, or Rasalhague Orders for the new Mech."

However, it seems that sales to the LAAF, AFFS in the Jihad era per TRO 3055U, Pg. 42:
"The recent* removal of the LAAF and AFFS from the “banned sales list” has led to speculation about new exports; sales to ComStar, the Free Rasalhague Republic and the CCAF remain embargoed." (*The forward of the book states that TRO 3055U is written in 3067, which suggests that these would have been for sale in the Jihad era.)

TRO 3055U also states that the design is embargoed in the CCAF (unclear if this applied in the original TRO 3055). 3050U states the Apollo is also sold to the WOB Militia, but no timeline is given for when it was made available to them.
Title: masterunitlist.info is missing FLE-16
Post by: pascal on 11 March 2019, 14:03:56
Of all the mechs listed in the new TRO: Succession Wars, the FLE-16 is the only mech not represented for Alpha Strike.

Would someone be so kind to add it?



On a very minor sidenote: CN9-A lists REAR1/1/0 while most other units would list it as REAR1/1/-
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Phaedros on 12 March 2019, 06:12:04
Cannot find the Battlemaster C 2 on the MUL, wondering if this is an oversight or it just hasn't been added yet.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 12 March 2019, 06:30:26
hasn't been added yet.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Phaedros on 12 March 2019, 07:12:26
hasn't been added yet.

Alright, thanks! Do you by chance know if it has a different PV or the same as the Battlemaster (Red Corsair)? Sarna states the C 2 is a production version, dunno if that means carbon copy or not..

Sorry for slightly OT chatter.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 13 March 2019, 17:42:49
These two seem to be missing availability with the listed factions during the Star League era.

Von Rohrs VON 4RH-6
Draconis Combine

Hermes HER-1Sb

Rim Worlds Republic - Terran Corps

The Dual-Cockpit description in the MechWarrior Companion (FASA 1671) states that the BattleMaster was the earliest design to see use of the DC system (Cockpit Command Console). But the MUL has the Warhammer WHM-6R-DC as over 100 years earlier than the BattleMaster. Since the Cockpit Command Console is in production in 2631, it seems logical the BLR- would come about the same year.

BattleMaster BLR-1G-DC
Inner Sphere General
Star League Era
2631
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 14 March 2019, 22:39:44
Panther PNT-9R
Star League Royal
Star League Regular

This is in reference to TRO:3039 page 114, which states that the Star League solved the problems with the Large Laser and began production of the -9R. The MUL has the -9R as being introduced as 2759, so it should have been in Star League Regular and Star League Royal hands.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 19 March 2019, 17:47:25
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1319/grigori-c-grg-o-tamiel

this Grigori config is showing up when I search by source for Record Sheets: 3075 Unabridged - Age of War
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pascal on 20 March 2019, 13:29:38
I'd like to expand:

Of all the mechs listed in the new TRO: Succession Wars, the FLE-16 is the only mech not represented for Alpha Strike. While I understand the MUL is an eternal work-in-progress, it might be worth prioritizing addings mechs that have been featured in recently released products over adding others, where time allows...

And here's small list of odd cases I found:

This mech has typo, where a dot was used instead of a comma to seperate abilities:
(Lucian Finn) Wolfhound .Multi-Tasker -> ,Multi-Tasker

These mechs used a zero where a dash should have been used:

STM-R1 Storm Raider AC1/1/0 -> AC1/1/-
AVL-1OC Avalanche AC1/1/0 -> AC/1/1/-
CN9-A Centurion REAR1/1/0 -> REAR/1/1/-

I did find a bunch a cases where it seems parentheses were unnecessarily and inconsistently used, "wasting" the tiny amount of space we have on the unit cards :)

AS7-D (Danielle) Atlas AC(2/2/-) -> AC2/2/-

WVE-5UX Wyvern City SRM(2/2) -> SRM2/2
THG-11ECX (Jose) Thug SRM(2/2) -> SRM2/2

ARC-1A Archer LRM(1/2/2) -> LRM1/2/2

HCT-3F (Austin) Hatchetman FLK(1/1/1) -> FLK1/1/1
ENF-7D Enforcer III FLK(1/1/1) -> FLK1/1/1
A Boreas FLK(1/1/1) -> FLK1/1/1
HMH-3D (Kessem) Hammerhands FLK(1/1/1) -> FLK1/1/1
AS7-D-H (Kerensky) Atlas II FLK(1/1/1) -> FLK1/1/1
MSH-9HKR "Kill-Roy's Little Buddy" Mackie FLK(1/1/1) -> FLK1/1/1

HRC-LS-9000 (Julius) Hercules FLK(1/1/-) -> FLK1/1/-
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Phaedros on 24 March 2019, 21:10:22
Availability for EXT-4D Exterminator is listed as ComStar only in Late Succession War - Renaissance. It should be ComStar and Draconis Combine as per pg. 112 of Combat Manual: Kurita.

MON-67 Mongoose should also be available to Kurita in Late Succession War - Renaissance as per pg. 111 of Combat Manual: Kurita.

KTO-18 Kintaro is also not listed as available for Kurita in Late Succession War - Renaissance, but should be as per pg. 111 of Combat Manual: Kurita.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 07 April 2019, 05:41:42
I just noticed the cost of the Heavy Battlemech Recovery Vehicle (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1429/heavy-battlemech-recovery-vehicle-standard) (618,750) appears to assume use of Ferro Fibrous armor.  Using Solaris Armor Werks, the price for a Standard armor version would only be 585,000 (618,750 appears when I switch the armor to Ferro).  As the entry lists "Age of War" for introduction, availability in all eras, and "Introductory" rules level, I recommend changing the listed price to 585,000.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 07 April 2019, 08:02:20
No need to assume, it has a TR and RS.  They say what it has.
We put an earlier era because it has so little armor that it’s nearly insignificant to remove it, and unlikely to get an earlier version, so we went ahead and suggested using it earlier.  But the RS and cost are based on it ha jog ferro.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: VhenRa on 13 April 2019, 22:06:21
Is there any particular reason why the Merkava Mark II is listed as 2325 in the MUL when TRO 3075 and XTRO Primitives Vol I say it was introduced in 2294?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 06 May 2019, 15:33:52
Ferret Light Scout VTOL (Cargo) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1059/ferret-light-scout-vtol-cargo)

Record Sheets 3039 has this unit equipped with 2.5 tons of cargo, while the Alpha Strike card on the MUL lists CT4. Recommend changing the AS card to read CT2.5.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 18 May 2019, 17:04:55
"Dates Introduced" for Epona Pursuit Tank <Base> and configurations, 5/7 total listings

Links:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4130/epona-pursuit-tank-base
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/996/epona-pursuit-tank-prime
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/991/epona-pursuit-tank-a
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/992/epona-pursuit-tank-b
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/993/epona-pursuit-tank-c

Technical Readout: 3060, p. 54 (FASA and CGL printings) have this line in "Overview":
"Other Clans consider the pod technology wasted on conventional vehicles, but the Horses, who regularly use vehicles in front-line roles, have enjoyed the benefits of the flexibility of this design for more than seventy years."

The current MUL date listed in all the links above is 2884. While this is technically more than 70 years before the in-universe publication date (2884 is 176 years before 1 November, 3060), the dates would correspond better with either 1 of 2 changes, but not both:

A. Change the "Overview" in TRO:3060, p. 54 to say "...for more than one hundred seventy years." (I prefer this option!!!).

or

B. Change the "Dates Introduced" on all 5 linked pages to 2984, and remove Epona from the RATs in "Turning Points: Tokasha"

If TRO:3060 should be changed, please let us know so we can report the errata. Thank you!

S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 20 May 2019, 15:26:01
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/182/axel-heavy-tank-iic-standard

Problem: The Axel IIC is listed as "Technology: Inner Sphere"
Solution: Chnage "Technology: Inner Sphere" to "Technology: Clan"
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 22 May 2019, 20:18:53
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6487/thang-ta-apc-standard

Problem: Date Introduced for the Thang-Ta is 3093. TRO:3145 FWL "Thang-Ta" p. 10 says, "Earthwerks quietly premiered the Thang-Ta before the Jihad."
Solution A: Change the Date Introduced for the Thang-Ta on the MUL.
or
Solution B: Change the description from the Thang-Ta entry in TRO:3145 FWL to say, "Earthwerks quietly premiered the Thang-Ta after the Jihad." (This is likely the more difficult change - the way the article is written, more changes will be required to avoid any implicit earlier introduction dates in the writing.)




http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6313/marten-scout-vtol-standard

Problem: Date Introduced for the Marten Scout VTOL is 3021. TRO:3145 FS "Marten Scout VTOL" p. 12, "Deployment" begins, "In active service for more than a century,..." This places the introduction before the Clan Invasion.
Solution A: Change the Date Introduced for the Marten on the MUL.
or
Solution B: Change "Deployment: In active service for more than twenty years,..."

Please respond and let us know which changes should be made. If TRO:3145 FWL and FS should be changed, I can post the errata on the pages. Thank you!
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 06:47:51
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6487/thang-ta-apc-standard

Problem: Date Introduced for the Thang-Ta is 3093. TRO:3145 FWL "Thang-Ta" p. 10 says, "Earthwerks quietly premiered the Thang-Ta before the Jihad."
Solution A: Change the Date Introduced for the Thang-Ta on the MUL.
or
Solution B: Change the description from the Thang-Ta entry in TRO:3145 FWL to say, "Earthwerks quietly premiered the Thang-Ta after the Jihad." (This is likely the more difficult change - the way the article is written, more changes will be required to avoid any implicit earlier introduction dates in the writing.)




http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6313/marten-scout-vtol-standard

Problem: Date Introduced for the Marten Scout VTOL is 3021. TRO:3145 FS "Marten Scout VTOL" p. 12, "Deployment" begins, "In active service for more than a century,..." This places the introduction before the Clan Invasion.
Solution A: Change the Date Introduced for the Marten on the MUL.
or
Solution B: Change "Deployment: In active service for more than twenty years,..."

Please respond and let us know which changes should be made. If TRO:3145 FWL and FS should be changed, I can post the errata on the pages. Thank you!
S.gage

Thang-Ta changed to 3079.  Marten Scout VTOL, 3021 is 124 years before 3145. So that is "more than a century".
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 06:48:44
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/182/axel-heavy-tank-iic-standard

Problem: The Axel IIC is listed as "Technology: Inner Sphere"
Solution: Chnage "Technology: Inner Sphere" to "Technology: Clan"

Yep, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 07:01:58
"Dates Introduced" for Epona Pursuit Tank <Base> and configurations, 5/7 total listings

Links:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4130/epona-pursuit-tank-base
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/996/epona-pursuit-tank-prime
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/991/epona-pursuit-tank-a
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/992/epona-pursuit-tank-b
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/993/epona-pursuit-tank-c

Technical Readout: 3060, p. 54 (FASA and CGL printings) have this line in "Overview":
"Other Clans consider the pod technology wasted on conventional vehicles, but the Horses, who regularly use vehicles in front-line roles, have enjoyed the benefits of the flexibility of this design for more than seventy years."

The current MUL date listed in all the links above is 2884. While this is technically more than 70 years before the in-universe publication date (2884 is 176 years before 1 November, 3060), the dates would correspond better with either 1 of 2 changes, but not both:

A. Change the "Overview" in TRO:3060, p. 54 to say "...for more than one hundred seventy years." (I prefer this option!!!).

or

B. Change the "Dates Introduced" on all 5 linked pages to 2984, and remove Epona from the RATs in "Turning Points: Tokasha"

If TRO:3060 should be changed, please let us know so we can report the errata. Thank you!

S.gage

Yeah, Comstar goofed there.  It also says the Bandit is likely an offshot of the Epona.  Meanwhile the Bandit is stated to be from the Golden Century (which ended more than 70 years before 3060).  So I'm going to leave the Epona as earlier.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 07:03:43
Ferret Light Scout VTOL (Cargo) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1059/ferret-light-scout-vtol-cargo)

Record Sheets 3039 has this unit equipped with 2.5 tons of cargo, while the Alpha Strike card on the MUL lists CT4. Recommend changing the AS card to read CT2.5.

Thanks, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 07:10:19
Is there any particular reason why the Merkava Mark II is listed as 2325 in the MUL when TRO 3075 and XTRO Primitives Vol I say it was introduced in 2294?

When we created the entry in the MUL based on 3075, we had the Merkava Heavy Tank as 2294 and the Merkava Heavy Tank Mk. II coming later (2325).  (The real world Merkava already has a Mk II, Mk III, Mk IV). We didn't notice the later Primitives Vol I went with the "mk I" being the real world tank and the BT Mk II being the 2294.
Updated the Mk II to 2294.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 07:12:38
Alright, thanks! Do you by chance know if it has a different PV or the same as the Battlemaster (Red Corsair)? Sarna states the C 2 is a production version, dunno if that means carbon copy or not..

Sorry for slightly OT chatter.

There's no Record Sheet yet, so I don't know what AS stats it will have and therefore what PV it will have.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 09:21:44
Availability for EXT-4D Exterminator is listed as ComStar only in Late Succession War - Renaissance. It should be ComStar and Draconis Combine as per pg. 112 of Combat Manual: Kurita.

MON-67 Mongoose should also be available to Kurita in Late Succession War - Renaissance as per pg. 111 of Combat Manual: Kurita.

KTO-18 Kintaro is also not listed as available for Kurita in Late Succession War - Renaissance, but should be as per pg. 111 of Combat Manual: Kurita.

MON-67 and KTO-18 have been updated.   The Kurita Special list that the EXT-4D is on in CM:K is not going to be necessarily added to the MUL for DC. They are not generally available to the DC.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 09:39:30
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1319/grigori-c-grg-o-tamiel

this Grigori config is showing up when I search by source for Record Sheets: 3075 Unabridged - Age of War

It actually took me a while to figure out what you meant the problem was.  I was about to reply "it is in RS:3075u, p160!" before I noticed it was labeled as the age of war instead of cutting edge....

thanks, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 09:42:24
Panther PNT-9R
Star League Royal
Star League Regular

This is in reference to TRO:3039 page 114, which states that the Star League solved the problems with the Large Laser and began production of the -9R. The MUL has the -9R as being introduced as 2759, so it should have been in Star League Regular and Star League Royal hands.

Fixed, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 09:46:13
These two seem to be missing availability with the listed factions during the Star League era.

Von Rohrs VON 4RH-6
Draconis Combine

The 6 was never made.  "It is unknown if any made it past the planning stages before Kankoku was permanently shut down."
Quote
Hermes HER-1Sb[/b]
Rim Worlds Republic - Terran Corps


Sure.

Quote
The Dual-Cockpit description in the MechWarrior Companion (FASA 1671) states that the BattleMaster was the earliest design to see use of the DC system (Cockpit Command Console). But the MUL has the Warhammer WHM-6R-DC as over 100 years earlier than the BattleMaster. Since the Cockpit Command Console is in production in 2631, it seems logical the BLR- would come about the same year.

BattleMaster BLR-1G-DC
Inner Sphere General
Star League Era
2631

Used 2633 as that's the date we have for the BLR-1G, non-DC.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 10:00:49
Swift Wind Scout Car should be available to the St. Ives faction for the duration of that faction's existence per TRO 3039, Pg. 12:
"Only a few dozen Swift Winds can be found outside the Capellan Confederation (or the short-lived St. Ives Compact), with most of those “foreign” Swift Winds operated by mercenary units that served House Liao well. With the secession of St. Ives, Swift Winds actually competed against one another as the Confederation mounts raids against its former state."

Added, thanks.

Quote
***

Apollo APL-1M should not be available to the Fed Com/Fed Suns/Lyrans/St. Ives/Rasalhauge in the Clan Invasion or Civil War era per TRO 3055, Pg. 57
"Earthwerks has been instructed to refuse any Federated Commonwealth, St. Ives Compact, or Rasalhague Orders for the new Mech."

However, it seems that sales to the LAAF, AFFS in the Jihad era per TRO 3055U, Pg. 42:
"The recent* removal of the LAAF and AFFS from the “banned sales list” has led to speculation about new exports; sales to ComStar, the Free Rasalhague Republic and the CCAF remain embargoed." (*The forward of the book states that TRO 3055U is written in 3067, which suggests that these would have been for sale in the Jihad era.)

TRO 3055U also states that the design is embargoed in the CCAF (unclear if this applied in the original TRO 3055). 3050U states the Apollo is also sold to the WOB Militia, but no timeline is given for when it was made available to them.
The AFFC purchased some ("small quantities") before the embargo went in to effect. I did remove St. Ives, Kell Hounds and WD. I left CC, I have to assume that embargo went in to effect later, I'm fairly certain we have Apollos in CCAF hands in other canon products. Added WoB for Jihad era.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 10:06:24
The Gladiator(Executioner) I should have a movement of 12”/8”j since it has a supercharger and MASC system, not 10”/8”j.

Fixed, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 10:11:03
The Eagle EGL-R6 aerospace fighter does not have a star to indicate it was featured in a TRO - it is found in TRO:3075 (pg 264)

edit: Add the Lightning LTN-G15 (pg 251). I suspect there are more 3075 units lurking as well

edit2: by more I mean every fighter except the Hellcat

The List:
Shade S-HA-O (98)
Rusalka S-RSL-O (100)
Striga S-STR-O (102)
Sabre SB-27 (212)
Centurion CNT-1D (230)
Lightning LTN-G15 (250)
Eagle EGL-R6 (264)
Deathstalker F-77 (266)
Typhoon TFN-2A (284)
Thunderbird TRB-D36 (286)
Vulcan VLC-5N (302)

Yep, thanks, fixed all those.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 10:12:28
Any chance that there could be a quick start record sheet generator on the MUL as well?  I ask because while it would help me with con/demo games but I think it would also help draw in more players yet not compete with the existing record sheet line.

It would be awesome, but it's been beyond our ability to implement.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 10:13:45
Fast Recon Cavalry Point, 67th BattleMech Cluster, Iota Galaxy
 
Unit Type Infantry - Conventional Infantry - Wheeled



Hi,  this should be listed as Hover infantry, not wheeled.

Fixed, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 10:15:20
Mad Cat III Standard might be Missing a Faction

Unit: Mad Cat III Standard

Link: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4561/mad-cat-iii-standard (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4561/mad-cat-iii-standard)

Overview: I believe the Mad Cat III Standard should be added to the Mercenary unit list for Early Republic, Late Republic, and Dark Ages.

Reasoning and Evidence: The other models of Mad Cat III are listed as Mercenary units, and no special lore exists to establish why they wouldn't buy the Standard model as well. Additionally, page 148 of TRO: Experimental states "the Diamond Sharks are readily selling the Mad Cat III to every interested buyer." It lists several Houses in particular, but I imagine mercenaries would want this machine too.

Additionally, Mercenaries are listed as buyers for most other 'for Inner Sphere purchasers' Mad Cats, such as Mad Cat Mk. II and Mad Cat Mk. IV.

Edit: Further, the Kell Hounds and Wolf's Dragoons are also listed as users for the Standard model.

Suggested Change: Add Mad Cat III (Standard) to Mercenary listings for those three eras (Early Republic, Late Republic, Dark Ages).

Thank you for your time!

done.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 10:18:22
I was looking at the Marksman Artillery Vehicle (Standard) and it is listed as general IS availability in the late SW yet it comes with ferro armor?

I thought Ferro would make it not available in this era?

Removed from Late Succession Wars.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 10:26:48
Thor II E is missing from the MUL

The variant appeared only in the 3150 book and not in the original 3145 rendition. It has a full stat line, not just a description, and should be easy to include with a proper BV and AS card.

Done.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 23 May 2019, 11:21:43
Thang-Ta changed to 3079.  Marten Scout VTOL, 3021 is 124 years before 3145. So that is "more than a century".

Oops, sorry for wasting your time, I was tired and I read that as 3121.

A couple more small catches:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6595/di-multipurpose-light-vtol-standard
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6596/di-multipurpose-light-vtol-gunship

Problem: Both entries use "DI Multipurpose Light VTOL ..." in the unit name. TRO:3145 LC pp. 12-13, the unit is only referred to as "DI Multipurpose VTOL ...". Personally I think it is clear, but I just thought I would mention it.



http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6488/red-kite-attack-vtol-standard

Problem: Date Introduced is 3121. From TRO:3145 FWL, the first line of the description states, "Imstar introduced the Red Kite in 3093,..."

If errata should be reported for TRO:3145 FWL, let me know. Thank you!
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 May 2019, 12:59:04
Oops, sorry for wasting your time, I was tired and I read that as 3121.

A couple more small catches:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6595/di-multipurpose-light-vtol-standard
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6596/di-multipurpose-light-vtol-gunship

Problem: Both entries use "DI Multipurpose Light VTOL ..." in the unit name. TRO:3145 LC pp. 12-13, the unit is only referred to as "DI Multipurpose VTOL ...". Personally I think it is clear, but I just thought I would mention it.

There never was a standard for naming vehicles like there has been for 'mechs, so the MUL created one.  In particular, giving the "type" of vehicle in the name. This is throughout vehicles.  It doesn't mean it's more correct (or less), just that we have a standard we use that is often more than what the TRs have had.

Quote

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6488/red-kite-attack-vtol-standard

Problem: Date Introduced is 3121. From TRO:3145 FWL, the first line of the description states, "Imstar introduced the Red Kite in 3093,..."

If errata should be reported for TRO:3145 FWL, let me know. Thank you!
S.gage

Fixed, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Azakael on 23 May 2019, 22:45:40
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3782/bandit-hovercraft-base (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3782/bandit-hovercraft-base)

Problem: Base variant of the Bandit Hovercraft is listed as only available to Wolf's Dragoons until its extinction after the Jihad. All other variants list the Bandit with Mercenary and Wolf's Dragoons availability until their extinction.

Considering that the Base variant is any variant sans pod-mounted equipment -
Solution: Add Mercenary to the Civil War and Jihad availability for the Bandit Hovercraft Base. (Would also check the Badger availability too.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 24 May 2019, 17:44:51
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6374/saracen-mk-ii-hcv-bc3

Problem: The "Date Introduced" for the Saracen Mk II (BC3) is currently 3138. TRO: 3145 DC, p. 12, Saracen Mk II, Variants, first sentence, states "Scarborough began producing a C3 variant in 3140 at the DCMS’ request"

Solution: Either adjust the date on the MUL, or in TRO: 3145 DC. If errata is for the TRO is preferable, let me know and I can take care of reporting it. Thanks!

S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Frabby on 25 May 2019, 02:06:01
I randomly browsed the MUL for aerospace units with "None" as TRO or RS sourcing. I'm not sure if I agree with all those entries:

- The "Manassas Heavy Cruiser" is a misnomer, imho. It's a one-off modified Aegis. There is no "Manassas" class, not even in spirit.

- The Dragoons' "Hephaestus Station" is a unique, one-off FrankenStation based off or at least including parts of the Olympus and Alliance class stations.

- The "Peregrine class JumpShip" - are you sure you're not referring to the ustatted Peregrine WarShip here?

- What's the difference between a "Newgrange" and a "Newgrange III"?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 25 May 2019, 02:15:15
If it’s modified, then it has different stats and is a doffferent unit.
We note them as a reminder they exist Incase somebody wants to use time again.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: surfimp on 25 May 2019, 09:51:24
It appears the Flea FLE-16, listed in the new Succession Wars record sheets, is missing from the MUL.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 26 May 2019, 11:52:00
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6387/sm2-heavy-artillery-vehicle-ltc

Note: This might not be errata, since the original article is a little ambiguous.

Problem: The SM2 (Long Tom Cannon) shares the same Date Introduced with the standard SM2, 3093. There are a few lines in TRO:3145 DC that seem to imply it was introduced 20+ years later:

P. 26:
"After the Second Combine-Dominion War, the Combine removed the LAW-Barcella factory from the Clan."
"...few within the Clan wept at the loss of the SM2. The military bureaucrats within the Dragon felt differently, as the production facility was meticulously rebuilt within twenty years of its dismantling."
"The Combine experimented with a Long Tom cannon version of the SM2, and produces a limited quantity of the tank."

Since LAW was involved in the design of CNC's original SM2, did they also prod the Cats to make the Long Tom version in 3093, or did LAW introduce this new variant after rebuilding the factory on Hyner?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 28 May 2019, 14:01:55
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1060/ferret-light-scout-vtol-standard

Problem: Ferret Light Scout VTOL lists 2901 as its "Date Introduced". Both TRO:3026 (original FASA) and TRO:3039 (print) say the Ferret was introduced in 2904.

From TRO:3026, p. 4, last sentence of the first paragraph:
"First issued to Davion troops in 2904, the Ferret is now also in service with Steiner, Marik, and some worlds of the Periphery."
From TRO: 3039, p. 8, first sentence:
"The Ferret Light Scout VTOL is a Federated Suns reconnaissance rotor craft introduced in 2904."

Solution: either change the MUL listing to 2904, or I can write errata for both technical readouts. Thanks!
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 May 2019, 14:21:15
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1060/ferret-light-scout-vtol-standard

Problem: Ferret Light Scout VTOL lists 2901 as its "Date Introduced". Both TRO:3026 (original FASA) and TRO:3039 (print) say the Ferret was introduced in 2904.

From TRO:3026, p. 4, last sentence of the first paragraph:
"First issued to Davion troops in 2904, the Ferret is now also in service with Steiner, Marik, and some worlds of the Periphery."
From TRO: 3039, p. 8, first sentence:
"The Ferret Light Scout VTOL is a Federated Suns reconnaissance rotor craft introduced in 2904."

Solution: either change the MUL listing to 2904, or I can write errata for both technical readouts. Thanks!
S.gage

Changed MUL date to 2904.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 May 2019, 14:24:52
It appears the Flea FLE-16, listed in the new Succession Wars record sheets, is missing from the MUL.

Yes, haven’t gotten to it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 May 2019, 14:36:44
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6387/sm2-heavy-artillery-vehicle-ltc

Note: This might not be errata, since the original article is a little ambiguous.

Problem: The SM2 (Long Tom Cannon) shares the same Date Introduced with the standard SM2, 3093. There are a few lines in TRO:3145 DC that seem to imply it was introduced 20+ years later:

P. 26:
"After the Second Combine-Dominion War, the Combine removed the LAW-Barcella factory from the Clan."
"...few within the Clan wept at the loss of the SM2. The military bureaucrats within the Dragon felt differently, as the production facility was meticulously rebuilt within twenty years of its dismantling."
"The Combine experimented with a Long Tom cannon version of the SM2, and produces a limited quantity of the tank."

Since LAW was involved in the design of CNC's original SM2, did they also prod the Cats to make the Long Tom version in 3093, or did LAW introduce this new variant after rebuilding the factory on Hyner?

The Combine had some LTC SM2s before they took over the factory.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 May 2019, 14:37:58
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6374/saracen-mk-ii-hcv-bc3

Problem: The "Date Introduced" for the Saracen Mk II (BC3) is currently 3138. TRO: 3145 DC, p. 12, Saracen Mk II, Variants, first sentence, states "Scarborough began producing a C3 variant in 3140 at the DCMS’ request"

Solution: Either adjust the date on the MUL, or in TRO: 3145 DC. If errata is for the TRO is preferable, let me know and I can take care of reporting it. Thanks!

S.gage

Changed to 3140, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 29 May 2019, 13:41:30
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1390/harasser-missile-platform-standard
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1386/harasser-missile-platform-leaping-lisa
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1389/harasser-missile-platform-lrm

Problem: Dates Introduced. According to the text of TRO:3026 (original FASA), p. 18, the Harasser was introduced in 2829 (2nd sentence):
"In 2829, House Marik commissioned the Harasser as a companion vehicle to the Galleon."

The three entries above list "Date Introduced" as 2811, 2815, and 2821.

TRO:3039, p. 28, makes no direct mention of the introduction date, but it does reference the same story re: the Harasser's role accompanying Galleons, and losses incurred during the Second Succession War forcing Harasser deployment as a replacement for 2nd line and garrison formations being pressed into front-line service. The later date also fits better with this story - if the Harasser was introduced in 2811 (vs. 2829), it would have 19 years to be deployed with Galleons (vs. just months to deploy in its intended role).

Solution: change these "Date Introduced" entries to dates starting with 2829.
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 04 June 2019, 21:36:11
The data for the Scavenger (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4987/scavenger-sc-v-salvagemech), the Scavenger MilitiaMech (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7174/scavenger-sc-v-m-militiamech) and the Vampyr  (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5334/vampyr-sc-v-1-salvagemech) are all missing data. I'd suggest just expanding and cut and pasting what's already there for the most part, though I would probably make the MilitiaMech Canopian only, since the fluff states that its rare.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 05 June 2019, 15:37:26
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2154/mechbuster-standard
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2153/mechbuster-srm

Problem:
Without any explicit dates in TRO:3039, TRO:3026, p. 46, 'MechBuster, states that the "Date Introduced" is 3023. Quote from 2nd sentence-
"Designed in 3023, the 'MechBuster is assigned to replace AeroSpace Fighters in providing air support for garrison forces."
Both links for the 'MechBuster from the MUL list "Date Introduced" before, in 3002 and 3022, respectively.

Solution: Adjust the dates in MUL, or write errata for TRO:3026. If errata for TRO:3026 is preferred, I can post if there is a thread for it. Thank you!
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 06 June 2019, 15:57:23
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2935/sholagar-sl-21
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5227/thrush-tr-5
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3201/thrush-tr-7

Problem: From TRO:3039, p. 198, Sholagar, Overview-
"Later used as the base for the Capellan Thrush, the airframe was small and fit well into transports, but its circular wings were unstable in atmospheric flight, resulting in many crashes."
Both the TR-5 and TR-7 Thrush predate the Sholagar on the MUL.

Solutions:
Revise the passage in TRO:3039 to read, "Based on the earlier Capellan Thrush, the airframe was small and fit well into transports, but its circular wings were unstable in atmospheric flight, resulting in many crashes." (best option)
or
Change the "Date Introduced" for the Sholagar to between the TR-5 and TR-7, or to before both the TR-5 and TR-7. This is a much worse option because errata for several publications would be required (for TRO:3025, 3039, etc.)

If errata is required for TRO:3039, I can post it in the thread.
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 06 June 2019, 16:31:20
That following 3 report unpublished variants missing from the MUL. Since other unpublished variants are at least listed in the MUL, I thought I would bring them to your attention. Additionally, unpublished earlier variants (of the Corsair, especially) may warrant adjusting some of the "Date Introduced" for published variants:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Sparrowhawk

Problem: There are no entries for unpublished versions of the Sparrowhawk, SPR-H1, SPR-H2, SPR-H3, SPR-H4, mentioned in the first paragraph of TRO:3025 (FASA, July 1994 printing), p. 134, SPR-H5 Sparrowhawk.

==========

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Corsair

Problem: There are no entries for unpublished versions of the Corsair, CSR-V1, CSR-V2, CSR-V3, CSR-V4, CSR-V5, CSR-V6, CSR-V7, CSR-V8, mentioned in the third paragraph of TRO:3025 (FASA, July 1994 printing), p. 136, CSR-V12 Corsair.

==========

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Stuka

Problem: There are no entries for unpublished versions of the Stuka, STU-K1 and STU-K2,  mentioned in the 2nd-3rd paragraph of TRO:3025 (FASA, July 1994 printing), p. 138, STU-K5 Stuka. STU-K1 is described as having "difficulties with heat dissipation" and "structural instability". The first Stukas were introduced in 2530, according to TRO:3039, p. 220. This matches the first sentence from the second paragraph from TRO:3025, p. 138-
"The K1 prototype of this fighter rolled off the assembly line in the Lycomb plant on the planet Demeter in 2530."

S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 07 June 2019, 15:10:38
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Transgressor

Potential Problem: The oldest "Date Introduced" for the Transgressor is 2890. From TRO:3025, p. 150 "Transgressor", "Notable Fighters and Pilots", the bio of Colonel Harry S. Yoshita explains Col. Yoshita helped design the original Transgressor. While the bio may have been published years after his design work, it is improbable Yoshita could have helped design the Transgressor in 2890, piloted it, recorded 22 kills, and still be attempting to return to front-line duty in 3025.

Solution: 1. Ignore the discrepancy, the bio could have been written in the 30th century.
2. Adjust the MUL "Date Introduced" closer to 3025.
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 07 June 2019, 15:31:40
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2959/slayer-sl-15

Problem: the "Date Introduced" for the SL-15 Slayer (the original production model) is 2657. TRO: 3039, p. 214, "Slayer", "Capabilities", 1st sentence starts with-
"With the Amaris Crisis raging, the Slayer’s designers had little time to craft a fi ghter’s typically complicated air frame." TRO:3025, p. 144, "SL-15 Slayer", does not heavily suggest an introduction date, simply "...before the collapse of the Star League."

Solution: Adjust the "Date Introduced" to some time during the Amaris Crisis, for instance, 2770.
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 09 June 2019, 11:44:38
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5147/striga-s-str-o-base
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5148/striga-s-str-o-invictus
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5149/striga-s-str-oa-dominus
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5150/striga-s-str-ob-infernus
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5151/striga-s-str-oc-comminus
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5152/striga-s-str-od-luminos
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5153/striga-s-str-oe-eminus

Problem: "Date Introduced" from all of the above Striga pages is 3072. From TRO:3075, p. 102, "S-STR-O Striga", Overview, 3rd sentence-
"The Rusalka and Shade fighters that followed [the Striga's] late-3071 debut would further refine the unique silhouette-changing features that have become the Spectrals’ hallmark,..."

=========

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4170/firebird-fr-1

Problem: MUL lists the "Date Introduced" for the FR-1 Firebird as 2400. Strategic Operations, p. 15, says "Firebird (2390)".
Additionally, ED:AoW, p. 28, "Firebird", says-
"The Firebird did not survive long once aerospace technologies matured. Obsolescent from its birth, after a mere twenty years this fighter was hopelessly obsolete. The Capellan Confederation scrapped the last of its Firebirds by 2420.

While this could imply 2400, it does not preclude the CC using the "hopelessly obsolete" Firebird for an additional decade (honestly, it seems like something the old CC might do  ;) ).

Solution: Write errata for Strategic Operations
or
Adjust the "Date Introduced" for the FR-1 Firebird to 2390.

If you need errata written for Strategic Operations, I can post it, it is currently on the first Errata page.

S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 10 June 2019, 20:54:35
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7193/hammerhead-hmr-ha

Problem: The "Date Introduced" for the HMR-HA Hammerhead is 2402. XTRO:Primitives Vol IV, p. 13, HMR-HA Hammerhead says-
"Prototype Introduction Date: 2402"
and
"While the fighter lacked the ability to engage enemies at range, the Hegemony Armed Forces were duly impressed with the Hammerhead and ordered it into production, with the first fighters reaching HAF squadrons in 2407."
Additionally, TRO:2750 (FASA), p. 76, HMR-HD Hammerhead, "Capabilities", 2nd paragraph starts, "Engineers added the Ferro-Aluminum armor more than a century after the Hammerhead entered service in 2407."

Solution: Change "Date Introduced" to 2407.
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 10 June 2019, 21:05:51
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Colt

Problem: There is a variant of the Colt Medium Fighter described in the text, mounting SRMs. Searching the MUL for Colt, only 1 entry is found. Here is the quote from XTRO:Primitives, Vol V, p. 13, "Colt Medium Fighter", 3rd paragraph, 2nd sentence-
"(A short-range variant, which swapped the LRMs for quad-SRM launchers also fed by a single one-ton magazine, was introduced by EAC in 2375.)"

Thank you!
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 16 June 2019, 14:05:24
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2682/rhino-fire-support-tank-mg

Problem: "Date Introduced" for the Rhino (MG) variant is 2653.
According to TRO:2750, p. 116, "Rhino", "Capabilities, 1st sentence- "When it appeared in 2669 to anchor defensive lines,..."
According to TRO:3050U, p. 180, "Rhino", "Overview", 1st sentence- "Introduced in 2669,..." Additionally, "Variants", 1st sentence- "There are no factory-produced variants of the Rhino.", therefore MG variant of the Rhino is a later modification of the original.

Solution: Change the "Date Introduced" for the Rhino (MG) variant to some time after 2669.
or
Write errata for the other variants of the Rhino, as well as TROs 3050U and 2750.
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 16 June 2019, 14:31:07
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4879/puma-assault-tank-pat-001
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4880/puma-assault-tank-pat-002
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2599/puma-assault-tank-pat-005
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2600/puma-assault-tank-pat-005b
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2601/puma-assault-tank-pat-007
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2602/puma-assault-tank-pat-008

Problem: Each of these 6 Puma Assault Tank entries includes the unit type, "PAT-n". Upon reading the initial entry from TRO:2750, p. 118, "Puma", the Pumas described in this TRO have a different type-
"Overview", 1st paragraph, 4th sentence- "The modifications in the latest model of the Puma, the PMA 005 BP..."
2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence- "The first model, produced in 2650, was the PMA 001,..."
"Capabilities", 2nd paragraph- "The Puma PMA-005 BP has long-range striking power..."
4th paragraph, 2nd sentence- "This is true of the Puma, but the PMA 005 BP protects itself with a Skylight Model 5 flamer..."

Solution: replace "PAT-n" in the names on the 6 entries with "PMA-n"
or
Write errata for TRO:2750

S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 June 2019, 14:39:29
The Pumas were changed in RS3050.  The current TR with the Puma (3059 Upgrsde) doesn’t give the designation.  We don’t errata 2750 as errata is only collected for CGL created products.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 June 2019, 14:42:13
Solution: Change the "Date Introduced" for the Rhino (MG) variant to some time after 2669.

Rhino (MG) changed to 2725. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 June 2019, 14:44:12
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Colt

Problem: There is a variant of the Colt Medium Fighter described in the text, mounting SRMs. Searching the MUL for Colt, only 1 entry is found. Here is the quote from XTRO:Primitives, Vol V, p. 13, "Colt Medium Fighter", 3rd paragraph, 2nd sentence-
"(A short-range variant, which swapped the LRMs for quad-SRM launchers also fed by a single one-ton magazine, was introduced by EAC in 2375.)"

Thank you!
S.gage

Thanks, entry added.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 June 2019, 14:45:12
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7193/hammerhead-hmr-ha

Problem: The "Date Introduced" for the HMR-HA Hammerhead is 2402. XTRO:Primitives Vol IV, p. 13, HMR-HA Hammerhead says-
Solution: Change "Date Introduced" to 2407.
S.gage

Done, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 June 2019, 14:48:56
Problem: "Date Introduced" from all of the above Striga pages is 3072. From TRO:3075, p. 102, "S-STR-O Striga", Overview, 3rd sentence-
"The Rusalka and Shade fighters that followed [the Striga's] late-3071 debut would further refine the unique silhouette-changing features that have become the Spectrals’ hallmark,..."

TR3075 Shade entry (p98) makes it clear the Striga "rolled off the refurbished assembly lines" in late 3071.  So we ruled they didn't actually see deployment till 3072.

Quote
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4170/firebird-fr-1

Problem: MUL lists the "Date Introduced" for the FR-1 Firebird as 2400. Strategic Operations, p. 15, says "Firebird (2390)".
Additionally, ED:AoW, p. 28, "Firebird", says-
"The Firebird did not survive long once aerospace technologies matured. Obsolescent from its birth, after a mere twenty years this fighter was hopelessly obsolete. The Capellan Confederation scrapped the last of its Firebirds by 2420.

While this could imply 2400, it does not preclude the CC using the "hopelessly obsolete" Firebird for an additional decade (honestly, it seems like something the old CC might do  ;) ).

Solution: Write errata for Strategic Operations
or
Adjust the "Date Introduced" for the FR-1 Firebird to 2390.

If you need errata written for Strategic Operations, I can post it, it is currently on the first Errata page.

S.gage
Agree with your reasoning here, changed to 2390.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 June 2019, 14:54:30
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2959/slayer-sl-15

Problem: the "Date Introduced" for the SL-15 Slayer (the original production model) is 2657. TRO: 3039, p. 214, "Slayer", "Capabilities", 1st sentence starts with-
"With the Amaris Crisis raging, the Slayer’s designers had little time to craft a fi ghter’s typically complicated air frame." TRO:3025, p. 144, "SL-15 Slayer", does not heavily suggest an introduction date, simply "...before the collapse of the Star League."

Solution: Adjust the "Date Introduced" to some time during the Amaris Crisis, for instance, 2770.
S.gage

Though it pains me to do so, changed.  (TR3057 gave exact date, but 3039 generally overrules.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 June 2019, 15:01:41
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Transgressor

Potential Problem: The oldest "Date Introduced" for the Transgressor is 2890. From TRO:3025, p. 150 "Transgressor", "Notable Fighters and Pilots", the bio of Colonel Harry S. Yoshita explains Col. Yoshita helped design the original Transgressor. While the bio may have been published years after his design work, it is improbable Yoshita could have helped design the Transgressor in 2890, piloted it, recorded 22 kills, and still be attempting to return to front-line duty in 3025.

Solution: 1. Ignore the discrepancy, the bio could have been written in the 30th century.
2. Adjust the MUL "Date Introduced" closer to 3025.
S.gage

Ignoring.  It's also the standard heavy aerospace fighter of the CC, and moving it that late causes issues as well. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 June 2019, 15:05:52
That following 3 report unpublished variants missing from the MUL. Since other unpublished variants are at least listed in the MUL, I thought I would bring them to your attention.
To preserve my sanity, I'm no longer worrying about variant that have no information but a name.  Maybe at a later time.  Gotta prioritize..

Quote
Additionally, unpublished earlier variants (of the Corsair, especially) may warrant adjusting some of the "Date Introduced" for published variants:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Sparrowhawk

Problem: There are no entries for unpublished versions of the Sparrowhawk, SPR-H1, SPR-H2, SPR-H3, SPR-H4, mentioned in the first paragraph of TRO:3025 (FASA, July 1994 printing), p. 134, SPR-H5 Sparrowhawk.

==========

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Corsair

Problem: There are no entries for unpublished versions of the Corsair, CSR-V1, CSR-V2, CSR-V3, CSR-V4, CSR-V5, CSR-V6, CSR-V7, CSR-V8, mentioned in the third paragraph of TRO:3025 (FASA, July 1994 printing), p. 136, CSR-V12 Corsair.

==========

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Stuka

Problem: There are no entries for unpublished versions of the Stuka, STU-K1 and STU-K2,  mentioned in the 2nd-3rd paragraph of TRO:3025 (FASA, July 1994 printing), p. 138, STU-K5 Stuka. STU-K1 is described as having "difficulties with heat dissipation" and "structural instability". The first Stukas were introduced in 2530, according to TRO:3039, p. 220. This matches the first sentence from the second paragraph from TRO:3025, p. 138-
"The K1 prototype of this fighter rolled off the assembly line in the Lycomb plant on the planet Demeter in 2530."

S.gage

The K1 and K2 are listed. K1 didn't have an intro date, so I'll add that.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5155/stuka-stu-k1
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 June 2019, 15:10:19
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2935/sholagar-sl-21
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5227/thrush-tr-5
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3201/thrush-tr-7

Problem: From TRO:3039, p. 198, Sholagar, Overview-
"Later used as the base for the Capellan Thrush, the airframe was small and fit well into transports, but its circular wings were unstable in atmospheric flight, resulting in many crashes."
Both the TR-5 and TR-7 Thrush predate the Sholagar on the MUL.

Solutions:
Revise the passage in TRO:3039 to read, "Based on the earlier Capellan Thrush, the airframe was small and fit well into transports, but its circular wings were unstable in atmospheric flight, resulting in many crashes." (best option)
or
Change the "Date Introduced" for the Sholagar to between the TR-5 and TR-7, or to before both the TR-5 and TR-7. This is a much worse option because errata for several publications would be required (for TRO:3025, 3039, etc.)

If errata is required for TRO:3039, I can post it in the thread.
S.gage

House Liao p42 has Normann Aris designing the Thrush.   Yeah, go with errata to TR3039.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 June 2019, 15:14:28
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2154/mechbuster-standard
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2153/mechbuster-srm

Problem:
Without any explicit dates in TRO:3039, TRO:3026, p. 46, 'MechBuster, states that the "Date Introduced" is 3023. Quote from 2nd sentence-
"Designed in 3023, the 'MechBuster is assigned to replace AeroSpace Fighters in providing air support for garrison forces."
Both links for the 'MechBuster from the MUL list "Date Introduced" before, in 3002 and 3022, respectively.

Solution: Adjust the dates in MUL, or write errata for TRO:3026. If errata for TRO:3026 is preferred, I can post if there is a thread for it. Thank you!
S.gage

Mechbuster changed to 3023, SRM to 3024. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 June 2019, 15:20:21
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1390/harasser-missile-platform-standard
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1386/harasser-missile-platform-leaping-lisa
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1389/harasser-missile-platform-lrm

Problem: Dates Introduced. According to the text of TRO:3026 (original FASA), p. 18, the Harasser was introduced in 2829 (2nd sentence):
"In 2829, House Marik commissioned the Harasser as a companion vehicle to the Galleon."

The three entries above list "Date Introduced" as 2811, 2815, and 2821.

TRO:3039, p. 28, makes no direct mention of the introduction date, but it does reference the same story re: the Harasser's role accompanying Galleons, and losses incurred during the Second Succession War forcing Harasser deployment as a replacement for 2nd line and garrison formations being pressed into front-line service. The later date also fits better with this story - if the Harasser was introduced in 2811 (vs. 2829), it would have 19 years to be deployed with Galleons (vs. just months to deploy in its intended role).

Solution: change these "Date Introduced" entries to dates starting with 2829.
S.gage

3039 says Marik acquired a bunch of Galleons at the fall of the Star League and this prompted the commissioning of the Harasser. It was viewed that 2829 was way too later to be commissioning something they acquired in the 2780s-2790s.  This was an intentional change from the 2829 data in 3026.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 16 June 2019, 19:48:44
House Liao p42 has Normann Aris designing the Thrush.   Yeah, go with errata to TR3039.

Thank you! I saw "HLSB" as the source for the TR-5 Thrush, and could not determine what source this was. Should these FASA sourcebooks be added to the "Sources" page? Also, I noticed there was no Handbook: House Kurita in the source list.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Source/Index
Thanks!

S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 16 June 2019, 22:20:54
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=heavy+wheeled+apc
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1432/heavy-hover-apc-mg

Problem: The "Date Introduced" results for Heavy APCs are a bit messy.

All of the Heavy Wheeled APCs in this chart mount standard armor, as well as the Heavy Hover APC (MG). With an introductory date 2460-2470 for standard armor (IO, p. 35), many of these entries probably should have their "Date Introduced" adjusted.

Heavy Tracked APC appears to have been fixed. All entries start at 2470, but there are no "primitive" models listed, either.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Heavy+Tracked+APC

The "primitive" models of the Heavy Hover APC (without cited record sheets) are listed with "Date Introduced" with dates "0", "2370", and "2400".
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Heavy+Hover+APC

Solutions: Adjust all "introductory" technology Heavy Hover and Heavy Wheeled APCs to become available no earlier than 2470.

(Please note: primitive versions of these vehicles would definitely be available beforehand. I look at these vehicles as the "latest iteration".)

S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 June 2019, 22:33:04
The APCs have so little armor that we were willing to fudge using the same RS earlier. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 17 June 2019, 09:21:24
The APCs have so little armor that we were willing to fudge using the same RS earlier.

I understand.

=====

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6378/shillelagh-missile-tank-standard

Problem: The Shillelagh (original) is listed as tech Standard. The record sheet in TRO:3145DC says Intro.

Solution: Change the tech to Introductory.

======

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6655/crane-heavy-transport-standard

Problem: Technology Level of the Crane Heavy Transport on MUL is Standard. Unless I am missing something, the Crane should be Introductory (it has 4 MGs and infantry capacity). The record sheet in TR:3145RS was not helpful here, as it has errata, too.

Solution: Change tech level to Introductory.

======

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2811/saxon-apc-standard

Problem: The Saxon APC gives a tech base as Standard. From reading TR:3075, pp. 48-49, "Saxon APC", there appears to be no advanced equipment or construction materials used in the Saxon

Solution: Change the MUL tech rating for the Saxon APC (standard) to Introductory.

=======

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4602/marsden-mbt-i

Problem: The Marsden I MBT is listed under "Unit Type" as Support Vehicle - Tracked. It should be a combat vehicle.

Solution: Change "Unit Type" to Combat Vehicle - Tracked.


Never mind, support here is unit type, my fault

S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 17 June 2019, 16:03:20
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1817/korvin-tank-krv-3
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=5936.0

Problem: Errata thread from TR:3075, p. 238, says the "Date Introduced" for the Korvis KRV-3 (Intro tech) should be 2530. MUL "Date Introduced" is 2544. Additionally, XTR:Primitives Vol III, p. 10 (no errata yet) still has the pre-errata date, 2430.

I prefer 2544 (simply because I read MUL before the errata thread), which one should be used?

Of course, whatever the decision, I can write the errata thread posts. Thanks!
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 17 June 2019, 23:37:57
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6766/thunderbolt-tdr-5sb2

Problem: I can find no reference to TDR-5Sb2 Thunderbolt in Historical: Operation Klondike. Also, with a "Date Introduced" of 2680, appears to have been introduced before the TDR-5Sb Thunderbolt (2753).

Solution: Fix the source if one exists. If not, remove from the MUL.
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 17 June 2019, 23:56:24
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6766/thunderbolt-tdr-5sb2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6766/thunderbolt-tdr-5sb2)

Problem: I can find no reference to TDR-5Sb2 Thunderbolt in Historical: Operation Klondike. Also, with a "Date Introduced" of 2680, appears to have been introduced before the TDR-5Sb Thunderbolt (2753).

Solution: Fix the source if one exists. If not, remove from the MUL.
S.gage
The TDR-5Sb2 is the exact same unit as the -5Sb, except with a standard PPC since the ER- version had yet to be invented. It's a bit backward, as you expect the second version to be the -2, but the ER-PPC variant becomes the -Sb and the PPC version becomes the -Sb2 when the later one comes in.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 17 June 2019, 23:58:47
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6766/thunderbolt-tdr-5sb2

Problem: I can find no reference to TDR-5Sb2 Thunderbolt in Historical: Operation Klondike. Also, with a "Date Introduced" of 2680, appears to have been introduced before the TDR-5Sb Thunderbolt (2753).

Solution: Fix the source if one exists. If not, remove from the MUL.
S.gage

Check the notes on this entry.  The TDR-5Sb2 is the original model to the 5Sb that replaced the standard PPC with an ER PPC when available.  The intro date supports that.  The change on the record sheets is a simple enough one that an Alpha Strike card was made for it without an actual record sheet being published.

It might be one of maybe two or three other designs in the entire game to have that distinction.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 18 June 2019, 11:48:09
Check the notes on this entry.  The TDR-5Sb2 is the original model to the 5Sb that replaced the standard PPC with an ER PPC when available.  The intro date supports that.  The change on the record sheets is a simple enough one that an Alpha Strike card was made for it without an actual record sheet being published.

It might be one of maybe two or three other designs in the entire game to have that distinction.

Thank you, I did not know there was a canon Thud published as an alpha strike card. It still might make sense adjusting the introductory date for the -5Sb2 to after the -5Sb, a lower-heat Royal version of the Thud. My reasoning: At the (almost) ideal range for combining short- and long-range brackets, 180 m, a stationary TDR-5Sb overheats by 3 (ERPPC, LRM, 3 ML, 1 successful Streak). The -5Sb2 can have the same weapons strike can run an remain cool, which is advantageous for a 4/6/0 BattleMech.
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 June 2019, 11:55:08
Thank you, I did not know there was a canon Thud published as an alpha strike card. It still might make sense adjusting the introductory date for the -5Sb2 to after the -5Sb, a lower-heat Royal version of the Thud. My reasoning: At the (almost) ideal range for combining short- and long-range brackets, 180 m, a stationary TDR-5Sb overheats by 3 (ERPPC, LRM, 3 ML, 1 successful Streak). The -5Sb2 can have the same weapons strike can run an remain cool, which is advantageous for a 4/6/0 BattleMech.
S.gage

Beyond the MUL's purpose.  We had to do something about the 'Mechs that existed despite having ER PPCs that didn't exist yet.  TPTB were firm that we couldn't change the intro date of the ER PPC.  That left either errata all those 'Mechs to introduce very late in the Star League (with several causing other issues), or there was a short-term version without the ER PPC.  We went with the last option there.  The 2 'mechs are versions that got their ER PPCs after their introduction.  We can't make further changes.
Moving the 2s after the "true" versions would defeat the point. We needed a version that exists at the intro date they were stated to have, before the existence of their ER PPCs.  That was the limit of our purpose.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 18 June 2019, 13:25:39
House Liao p42 has Normann Aris designing the Thrush.   Yeah, go with errata to TR3039.

Ok, so reading this reference, I realized there are a few entries that may need adjusting to remove temporal conflicts for the TDR-5S, the WHM-6L, and the TR-5. I'm putting all 3 in the same post because they reference many of the same sources:

Timeframe
1. House Liao, the Capellan Confederation, pp. 41-42: Normann Aris, Chancellor 2599-2611. Before, he is a weapons designer, worked on modern Thunderbolt, Capellan variant of the Warhammer, and later improved Thrush. (written in this order)
2. IO, p. 35: Ferro Aluminum Armor standard production in Terran Hegemony after 2571
3. ED:AoW, p. 11, Capellan Confederation introduces "modern" battlefield technology in 2524.

For frame of reference, I will refer to the points above with the same numbers below

========
TDR-5S Thunderbolt http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3238/thunderbolt-tdr-5s

Problem: The "Date Introduced" for the TDR-5S is 2505. If designed by CC and Norman Aris, it is 1) 106 years before the death of its designer, 3) 19 years before CC introduces modern battlefield technology.

Solution: Adjust the "Date Introduced" for the TDR-5S Thunderbolt to ~2530. means 1) a very young Normann Aris (say, 20 years old) works on the Thud, dies ~100 years old. 3) CC has introduced "modern" technology. This also gives it more than 40 years to become a standard 'Mech for the FWL, TH, SL in time for the Reunification War.

========
WHM-6L Warhammer http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3487/warhammer-whm-6l

Problem: The "Date Introduced" for the WHM-6L Warhammer is 2825. 1) If this is the variant designed by Normann Aris, this is ~214 years after his death. (While the design could have sat un-produced for centuries, the reference from House Liao: The Capellan Confederation also says the improvement to the Thrush came afterwards.)

Making things more complicated,TR:3025, p. 96, "Variants" says, 1st paragraph- "Several variants on the Warhammer have appeared since the fall of the Star League, and usually involve additional heat sinks and altered weaponry."
3rd paragraph- "Also known as the ‘Hot Hammer’, the WHM-6L is a House Liao variant that replaces the machine guns with two flamers."
There may be more references to the WHM-6L I have not found.

Solution: It looks like FASA did the retcon here in 1988. House Liao may have already modified their Warhammer to be more terrifying to infantry during the Age of War. Adjust this variant's "Date Introduced" to between the TDR-5S Thunderbolt and the TR-5 Thrush.

=========
TR-5 Thrush http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5227/thrush-tr-5

Problem: The "Date Introduced" for the TR-5 Thrush is 2510. First Succession War, p. 150, says the TR-5 has Ferro-Aluminum armor. The TR-5 Thrush also appears in time for the Reunification War, according to RAT, p. 173, even though Ursula Liao stayed out of this war directly.
1) Normann Aris would therefore die 101 years after working on the Thrush. 2) IO, p. 35, says Ferro-Aluminum was standard production in 61 years later in Terran Hegemony. Maybe Ursula Liao got this technology for her war vote (Reunification War, p. 50). 3) This is also 14 years before "modern" battlefield tech.

Solution: Adjust the TR-5 Thrush "Date Introduced" to ~2575, early enough to be available for the CC for the RW.

Sorry for this crazy long post, I hope it helps!
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 18 June 2019, 13:37:08
Beyond the MUL's purpose.  We had to do something about the 'Mechs that existed despite having ER PPCs that didn't exist yet.  TPTB were firm that we couldn't change the intro date of the ER PPC.  That left either errata all those 'Mechs to introduce very late in the Star League (with several causing other issues), or there was a short-term version without the ER PPC.  We went with the last option there.  The 2 'mechs are versions that got their ER PPCs after their introduction.  We can't make further changes.
Moving the 2s after the "true" versions would defeat the point. We needed a version that exists at the intro date they were stated to have, before the existence of their ER PPCs.  That was the limit of our purpose.

Ok. I just provided a rationale, but it does not need to be used. Thank you for the clarification!
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 18 June 2019, 14:26:16
s.gage out here doing the lord's work

question: does adding a trailer hitch to a vee automatically make it standard rules rather than intro?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 June 2019, 14:31:29
Ok, so reading this reference, I realized there are a few entries that may need adjusting to remove temporal conflicts for the TDR-5S, the WHM-6L, and the TR-5. I'm putting all 3 in the same post because they reference many of the same sources:

S.gage

Short answer, ignore that reference, it doesn't make sense. Also ignore my post mentioning it.  There's no making sense of that line.  Capellan propoganda.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 18 June 2019, 15:15:57
Short answer, ignore that reference, it doesn't make sense. Also ignore my post mentioning it.  There's no making sense of that line.  Capellan propoganda.

Lol makes sense for Normann Aris. Like Gen Kerensky inventing the 100-ton assault sewing machine lol.
The timeline in ED:AoW really gives headaches, too. 2524 is after some more early Capellan production.

My current exercise, I was considering ED:AoW with the LTN-G15, and TR-10 (and/or TR-9). My best guess without changing the ED was LTN-G15 2525 (and book ref to 2 years unused lines, then 2527 short production run), followed by TR-10 in 2529, followed again by a lower designation TR-9 after in the 27th-28th century. But disregarding the F-A armor and "modern" constraints, I got nothing.
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 18 June 2019, 16:01:48
S. gage, don't forget human lifespan was up to around 120 years by the time of the Star League, so that might give you a little more wiggle room when looking at dates.  This is one of the things that makes Terrans (and especially Belters) "weird" in 3025.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 18 June 2019, 16:07:52
S. gage, don't forget human lifespan was up to around 120 years by the time of the Star League, so that might give you a little more wiggle room when looking at dates.  This is one of the things that makes Terrans (and especially Belters) "weird" in 3025.

Agreed completely, that’s what I initially told myself. Part of reconciling dates here was also with “modern” battlefield tech and ferro-aluminum intro dates.
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 20 June 2019, 15:27:05
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=alacorn

Problem: The "Date Introduced" for the Mk III, IV, and VI do not quite match those in XTR:Prim III, p. 11. Here are quotes from the text-

"Prototype Introduction Date (Mk I, II): 2561"
1st paragraph- "The evaluators put the Mk I through a full series of combat trials,... over the course of three years of evaluations."
2nd paragraph- "The HAF passed on the Alacorn, but the company revisited the design a decade later, this time investing in the use of an extralight fusion engine. It took Corben’s engineering team almost five years to properly integrate the new engine, debuting the Mk. III and IV for approval. ..." (= total of 15 years or 18 years)
"...Mk VI—mounting three of the still-experimental, but massively powerful Gauss rifles—in 2587."

Solution: Adjust the "Date Introduced" for the Alacorn Mk III, IV, and VI to match XTR:Prim III. Still may require additional errata for TR:3058 and TR:3058U. (not recommended)
Mk III - c. 2576 or c. 2579 (depending if that decade started after the rejection of the Mk I or after design submission)
Mk IV - c. 2576 or c. 2579 (depending if that decade started after the rejection of the Mk II or after design submission)
Mk VI - 2587

or

Write errata adjusting the introductory dates in XTR:Prim Vol. III. Something like "two decades" vs. "a decade" later, and adjust the Mk VI date to the MUL (recommended, cleanest solution)

=========

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1952/lrm-carrier-standard
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5589/lrm-carrier-primitive

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3030/srm-carrier-standard
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5590/srm-carrier-primitive

Problem: The LRM and SRM Carriers from TR:3039, TR:3026 both have "Date Introduced" of 2407. These are 33 years before the "Date Introduced" for their primitive counterparts (2440), and ~60 years before standard 'Mech-grade armor. No hard references in TR:3039 and TR:3026 here, either.

Solution: Looks like a simple typo, swapping the "0" and "7". I suggest changing the "Date Introduced" to 2470.

If errata is required, I can write the post
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 20 June 2019, 15:55:24
Gauss Rifles didn’t go into production until 2590.  TM p219. We lost production, not prototype, dates (unless the unit was only ever a prototype). So the Alacorn VI has to be 2590.  Have to check on the III and IV. Those will likely change.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 20 June 2019, 17:25:02
Gauss Rifles didn’t go into production until 2590.  TM p219. We lost production, not prototype, dates (unless the unit was only ever a prototype). So the Alacorn VI has to be 2590.  Have to check on the III and IV. Those will likely change.

No need, they mount standard ACs, XL, and FF armor

I can write the errata. Thanks!
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 21 June 2019, 18:16:44
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1648/j-37-ordnance-transport-original

Problem: The "Date Introduced" for the J-37 (original) is currently 2824. TR:3085, p. 54, "J-Series Support Vehicles", 3rd paragraph ends- "In response the company developed the J-37, supplementing their J-27 production starting in the late 28th Century."

Solution: Adjust the MUL "Date Introduced" to a year in the late 28th Century (for example, 2795).
or
change the text from TR:3085 to say- "In response the company developed the J-37, supplementing their J-27 production starting in the early 29th Century."

I can write errata for TR:3085 if necessary. Thanks!
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 27 June 2019, 15:02:19
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6924/owens-ow-1g
The Owens G is listed as mixed tech unit even though it does not have any Clan tech. The Supercharger and TSEMP are both IS tech.

This error seems to be stemming from RS3145NTNU which has the 'Mech listed as "mixed" for some reason.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wrangler on 29 June 2019, 13:20:06
Subject: Carrier Fighter Carrier

Problem: Variant Not listed on MUL
References: First Succession War, p. 58, "Fallout" - Pair of Free World League converted Carracks noted as Aerospace or Fighter Carriers. First Succession War, p. 76, "Once More, With Feeling", FedSuns converted Carrack Transport named FSS Pretoria Castle being used as also a Fighter Carrier.

Solution: New Entry in MUL for Fighter Carrier Variant of Carrack Transport.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maingunnery on 29 June 2019, 14:04:15
Solution: New Entry in MUL for Fighter Carrier Variant of Carrack Transport.
Carrack CV or Carrack CVE would more closely match the naming-system (such as the Leopard CV).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: VhenRa on 01 July 2019, 01:30:32
I've got a question...

Why is this (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2761/sabaku-kaze-heavy-scout-hover-tank-standard) listed as RWR/Terran/SLDF in SL-era?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 03 July 2019, 10:23:48
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Prairie+Schooner

Problem: There appear to be 4 entries for 2 support units. Should these be consolidated into 2 entries?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7335/prairie-schooner-module
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4856/prairie-schooner-module-standard

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7334/prairie-schooner-land-train
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4855/prairie-schooner-land-train-standard

Thanks!
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wrangler on 05 July 2019, 12:19:07
Problem: Missing units yet posted from Turning Points: Tokasha.

Solution: Add new entries into MUL
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: OpacusVenatori on 05 July 2019, 14:11:23
I searched quickly but couldn't find anything about this:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7430/wolverine-wvr-6d

Problem: AS card for the wolverine 6D doesn't have the Jumping movement type.

Solution: add the "J" after the movement value and calculate the new PV accordingly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 05 July 2019, 14:15:50
I searched quickly but couldn't find anything about this:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7430/wolverine-wvr-6d

Problem: AS card for the wolverine 6D doesn't have the Jumping movement type.

Solution: add the "J" after the movement value and calculate the new PV accordingly.

yep, typo on my part, fixed. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nahuris on 14 July 2019, 15:36:52
Hi, I have a question on the Clint 6S -- it notes, in it's description that it was put in production, in 3068, after the fall of Hesperus II to the Word of Blake. We know that the 16th battle of Hesperus II notes that the coalition did not retake it, until 3074. And the Clint 6S uses heavy ferro armor, and a small cockpit, which tends to make it resemble a Word of Blake unit, but it is not on the WOB Mul list, and is only shown as Lyran Alliance availability.

The design seems to be very strongly implied as a Blake variant, especially with the small cockpit, and 6 years of production, at a time when they control that factory, but is not available to them...

Just finding it curious, and thank you.

Nahuris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Insaniac99 on 17 July 2019, 19:47:39
As asked by Xotl, here are some mismatched battlevalues we have found between MML and the Master Unit List.  Some of these line up with pre errata numbers for certain peices of equipment.

Archer 9W at MML's 1662 and MUL's 2004
Gestalt G at MML's 2392 and MUL's 2491
Pariah (Septicemia) US at MML's 2308 and MUL's 2,298
Turkina U at MML's 2,478 and MUL's 2,520

Additionally I have found that this mech is missing in the MUL
Stealth 5X, found in XTRO Steiner, Page 4
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 July 2019, 19:53:11
As asked by Xotl, here are some mismatched battlevalues we have found between MML and the Master Unit List.  Some of these line up with pre errata numbers for certain peices of equipment.

Archer 9W at MML's 1662 and MUL's 2004
Gestalt G at MML's 2392 and MUL's 2491
Pariah (Septicemia) US at MML's 2308 and MUL's 2,298
Turkina U at MML's 2,478 and MUL's 2,520
Thanks, updated!
Quote
Additionally I have found that this mech is missing in the MUL
Stealth 5X, found in XTRO Steiner, Page 4
it's there:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5130/stealth-sth-5x
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 July 2019, 19:54:14
Hi, I have a question on the Clint 6S -- it notes, in it's description that it was put in production, in 3068, after the fall of Hesperus II to the Word of Blake. We know that the 16th battle of Hesperus II notes that the coalition did not retake it, until 3074. And the Clint 6S uses heavy ferro armor, and a small cockpit, which tends to make it resemble a Word of Blake unit, but it is not on the WOB Mul list, and is only shown as Lyran Alliance availability.

The design seems to be very strongly implied as a Blake variant, especially with the small cockpit, and 6 years of production, at a time when they control that factory, but is not available to them...

Just finding it curious, and thank you.

Nahuris

Yeah, I can't find any reason for it, WoB added to Jihad. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Insaniac99 on 17 July 2019, 20:42:17
Thanks, updated!it's there:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5130/stealth-sth-5x

Thanks, I'm not sure how I missed it!

 However, it's BV is also incorrect, MML has it as 2240 in version 0.45.4  instead of the MUL's 2155
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 July 2019, 20:43:19
Thanks, I'm not sure how I missed it!

 However, it's BV is also incorrect, MML has it as 2240 in version 0.45.4  instead of the MUL's 2155

Good thing I put the link, so I could go straight there and fix it...
Thanks, udpated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Thunder on 31 July 2019, 12:17:37
PV Correction for

Squad size 4   Grenadier Battle Armor   (Hunter-Killer) [SRM/MagShot]
Squad size 4   Grenadier Battle Armor   [SRM/LRR]
Squad size 4   Grenadier Battle Armor   [SRM/MagShot]
Squad size 6   Phalanx Battle Armor   A

These units have the same Alpha Strike Stats
The MUL reported PV is 13.  The Correct PV is 12.

Offense = 9
3 Short + 3x2 Medium damage :: 9

Defense = 7.5
(4/2)*.25 Movement :: .5
1x2 armor 2x2 structure :: 6  Defense factor is 1.2 (1 +.1 BA +.1STL) :: 6*1.2 = 7.2 Round normally to .5's, DIR is 7.

PV Subtotal is 16.5.
move less then 6, does Medium Range.  Brawler Multiplier is .75
16.5*.75 = 12.375.  PV Rounds Normally to 12.`

Not 100% sure, but I think your spreadsheet is calculating brawler separately as .25*Subtotal.  Rounding, and then subtracting that number from the subtotal.


Next Problem.
4   Grenadier Battle Armor   [Heavy Flamer/Heavy Flamer]
The Heat special ability is not being included properly.  PV should be 14.
Problem looks like the Heat special was abbreviated to H2/-/- and the spreadsheet ignored it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: theagent on 07 August 2019, 03:43:27
Annihilator ANH-1A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3700/annihilator-anh-1a (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3700/annihilator-anh-1a)):

PV seems way low, especially when compared to the ANH-2A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/39/annihilator-anh-2a (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/39/annihilator-anh-2a)).  I only came across it while working on a custom variant for the -1A that I wanted to compare it to.

Per MUL, PV is 31.

Per my calculations (based on the 1st printing of Alpha Strike Companion & v1.2 of the Errata), PV should be :

That's a major gap in PV there, & I can't figure out where the issue is.  When I look at the ANH-2A model, it's right on target (has the same Defensive Value because those stats are identical; the damage values by range are different, but even with the shift from 5/5/-- to 4/4/3 the Attack Damage Factor is still identical; the only difference is the higher OV -- -1A has OV1, -2A has OV2 -- which increases its Offensive Value to 18.5 & the Final Point Value to 41.0 even).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 07 August 2019, 11:27:18
The -1A triggers the Brawler point discount because it's slow as dirt and has no long range damage.  That saves it 10 points.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: theagent on 07 August 2019, 12:43:01
I thought that was only if they were limited to 2” or less of movement, but I’ll check my errata tonight...

EDIT:  And...there it is, in the original book (as the sole modifier to the subtotal) & in the Errata (now labeled as the "Brawler" adjustment).

Given the choice between me making a mistake & the MUL editors making a mistake, though, I'll pick me making a mistake any day, if for no other reason than the learning experience.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nahuris on 11 August 2019, 16:20:12
Just wanted to ask about the PV Value of the Pal P12 "Hurricane" Battle Armor. It has the squad of 4 listed at 4PV, the squad of 0 listed at 4PV, but then the squad of 6 listed at 13PV

Just wanting to get that clarified, if possible, and thank you.

Nahuris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xiwo Xerase on 16 August 2019, 15:20:32
Unit: Predator (Standard) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2567/predator-standard)

Issue:
The Predator has no faction availability for Clan Fire Mandrill.  However, as per Technical Readout: 3060, the 'Mech was developed and produced by Clan Fire Mandrill.

Recommendation:
Add availability for Clan Fire Mandrill in the Clan Invasion and Civil War eras.


Unit: Cecerops 3 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3913/cecerops-3)

Issue:
The Cecerops 3 has no availability for Clan Blood Spirit.  Technical Readout 3075 (PDF, 2nd printing corrected, page 152) lists this as one of two variants in use by Clan Blood Spirit.

Recommendation:
Add availability for Clan Blood Spirit in the Jihad era.  (Note: I do not know if the Society availability for this version is erroneous.)


Unit: Cecerops 4 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3914/cecerops-4)

Issue:
The Cecerops 4 has no availability for Society.  Technical Readout 3075 (PDF, 2nd printing corrected, page 152) implies this is used by Society forces (or another similar raiding group).

Recommendation:
Add availability for Society in the Jihad era.  (Note: I do not know if the Clan Blood Spirit availability for this version is erroneous.  TRO 3075 says this variant was only seen with (presumed) Society forces but it does not definitively say the Blood Spirits do not use this version.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Gruber on 25 August 2019, 03:34:32
Potential conversion issue LRM ability.
CPLT-C1 Catapult.

Hey there I think there is a potential issue on the LRM ability conversion for the Catapult C1

Based on

ASC Page 126
Conversion: A unit receives this special if it carries any number of standard or enhanced LRM and/or MML launchers that, when combined, are capable of delivering 1 or more points of damage
at Medium range after heat-modification and before final damage rounding.

June 2018 errata page 9 ASC Page 101
Damage Subtotal: A unit’s total damage at a given range bracket modified by everything except heat (such as ammunition or targeting computers). No rounding is applied.

• Heat-Modified Damage: Any unit whose heat production is significantly greater than its dissipation will have to reduce its damage. This process is covered in Converting Heat (see p. 115). However, even if the unit does not reduce its damage due to heat, or even if the unit does not track heat at all, the damage subtotals are rounded to the nearest tenth and the results are still referred to as the unit’s heat-modified damage.

Ammunition page 101
For each ballistic or missile weapon, divide the number of shots for that weapon the unit carries by the number of such weapons on the unit. If the result is less than 10, the damage value for each such weapon must be multiplied by 0.75, with the following additional conditions.

Calculations

Base damage LRM medium range 2 x 0.9 = 1.8

Ammunition modifier 16 reloads / 2 launchers = 8 shots per launcher < 10 ammo modifier applies

Ammo modified damage 1.8 × 0.75 = 1.35

To verify if the minimum damage threshold (1) for the LRM ability is reached, we need to apply modification by heat to the non rounded damage value (1.35).

Heat modified damage (1.35×15)÷(26-4)
=0.9204545455

As the LRM conversion rule states
after heat-modification and before final damage rounding 0.9204545455<1

We do not reach the threshold therefore no LRM ability should be assigned to the Catapult unless there is some rounding hidden somewhere :)

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Thunder on 27 August 2019, 03:23:44
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7346/hunchback-hbk-7s (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7346/hunchback-hbk-7s)

Movement needs to be rounded up to 16.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Gruber on 28 August 2019, 09:08:55
Annihilator ANH-1A

Per MUL, PV is 31.

Per my calculations (based on the 1st printing of Alpha Strike Companion & v1.2 of the Errata), PV should be :
  • Offensive Value:
    • Attack Damage Factor:  Short + Medium + Long + Medium = 5 + 5 + 0 + 5 = 15
    • Unit Size Factor:  SZ 4, 4 / 2 = 2
    • Overheat Factor:  OV1 = +1
    • Offensive Special Abilities:  none
    • Subtotal:  15 + 2 + 1 = 18
    • Modifier:  Base 1.0 + 0 = 1.0
    • Final Offensive Value:  18 x 1.0 = 18.0
  • defensive Value:
    • Movement Factor:  4" / 8 = 0.5
    • Defensive Special Abilities:  none
    • Defensive Interaction Raring/DIR
      • Armor Rating:  7 points x 2.0 (non-Vehicle) = 14.0
      • Structure Rating:  8 points x 1.0 (BattleMech) = 8.0
      • Defense Factor:  4" = +0 modifier; 0/10 = 0.0, 1.0 + 0.0 = 1.0
      • Total DIR:  (14 + 8) x 1.0 = 22 x 1.0 = 22.0; rounding to nearest 0.5 is still 22.0
    • Final Defensive Value:  0.5 + 0 + 22 = 22.5
  • Final Point Value:  18 + 22.5 = 40.5, rounding down to 40


Actually the PV of the Annihilator ANH-1A if we apply the Brawler modifier is 30 not 31

40×0.75=30

Did we miss some rounding somewhere?
Or it is actually 30 instead of 31
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 August 2019, 09:47:02
The final rounding is done after all modifiers. 
ANH-1A's Point Value Subtotal is 40.5.  Brawler is -10 for a 30.5.  Round normal to 31.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 August 2019, 09:53:10
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7346/hunchback-hbk-7s (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7346/hunchback-hbk-7s)

Movement needs to be rounded up to 16.

Thanks, done.
PV also adjusted to 52.  This was not because of the MV change, it was just an error I noticed while fixing the MV.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 August 2019, 10:03:10
Potential conversion issue LRM ability.
CPLT-C1 Catapult.

Hey there I think there is a potential issue on the LRM ability conversion for the Catapult C1

Based on

ASC Page 126
Conversion: A unit receives this special if it carries any number of standard or enhanced LRM and/or MML launchers that, when combined, are capable of delivering 1 or more points of damage
at Medium range after heat-modification and before final damage rounding.

June 2018 errata page 9 ASC Page 101
Damage Subtotal: A unit’s total damage at a given range bracket modified by everything except heat (such as ammunition or targeting computers). No rounding is applied.

• Heat-Modified Damage: Any unit whose heat production is significantly greater than its dissipation will have to reduce its damage. This process is covered in Converting Heat (see p. 115). However, even if the unit does not reduce its damage due to heat, or even if the unit does not track heat at all, the damage subtotals are rounded to the nearest tenth and the results are still referred to as the unit’s heat-modified damage.

Ammunition page 101
For each ballistic or missile weapon, divide the number of shots for that weapon the unit carries by the number of such weapons on the unit. If the result is less than 10, the damage value for each such weapon must be multiplied by 0.75, with the following additional conditions.

Calculations

Base damage LRM medium range 2 x 0.9 = 1.8

Ammunition modifier 16 reloads / 2 launchers = 8 shots per launcher < 10 ammo modifier applies

Ammo modified damage 1.8 × 0.75 = 1.35

To verify if the minimum damage threshold (1) for the LRM ability is reached, we need to apply modification by heat to the non rounded damage value (1.35).

Heat modified damage (1.35×15)÷(26-4)
=0.9204545455

As the LRM conversion rule states
after heat-modification and before final damage rounding 0.9204545455<1

We do not reach the threshold therefore no LRM ability should be assigned to the Catapult unless there is some rounding hidden somewhere :)

Thanks

Converting Heat Errata v1.1 for Heat-modified damage says "The result is rounded up to the nearest tenth place, then rounded up again to the nearest whole number".

9.205 gets rounded to the nearest tenth place 9.2, then rounded up to the nearest whole number, 10.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wraithcannon on 28 August 2019, 10:19:53
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2788/salamander-battle-armor-laser

Battle Value for 5 man squad is off, possibly more.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 August 2019, 10:49:02
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2788/salamander-battle-armor-laser

Battle Value for 5 man squad is off, possibly more.

The 5 Trooper Squad BV looks correct. It's the 4 Trooper Squad BV that's off.  Corrected that to 292.



Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Thunder on 28 August 2019, 23:01:52
The final rounding is done after all modifiers. 
ANH-1A's Point Value Subtotal is 40.5.  Brawler is -10 for a 30.5.  Round normal to 31.

Brawler for 40.5 isnt -10.  Its -10.125.  And this is the backwards way of looking at it.  Brawler in this case is supposed to be a .75 multiplier applied to the pv subtotal.  40.5 x .75= 30.375.  Which rounds down to 30.  This is the same issue noted with that cluster of battle armor designs a few posts ago.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 August 2019, 23:04:05
The brawler adjustment is being looked at, we got another similar question about rounding that made it clear we need something changed.  I don’t know what that change is yet.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 29 August 2019, 00:09:41
The rounding rules for Agile, C3, and Brawler say "round each modifier to the nearest 0.5".  I've since tweaked that wording, but I'd welcome any wording change you think would make that clearer.  The problem is that Brawler isn't a distinct modifier per se unless you work it out by multiplying by 0.25 and then subtracting that; the way Brawler is worded in the text just directly modifies the Subtotal (i.e. it hides the "modifier" part somewhat).

For the Annihilator, you have a PV Subtotal of 40.5.  The result after applying Brawler is 30.375.  Rounding the modifier's results to the nearest 0.5 gets us 30.5, and rounded a final time to 31.

The Grenadier is the same sort of situation.  PV Subtotal of 16.5, multiplied by 0.75 is 12.375, rounded to 12.5, final round to 13.

There's a rounding step here only because everything in the PV formula always rounds itself off to at least a quarter, for overall ease of math.

Also:
I've corrected the HT values on the Grenadier for the base 4-suit squad, but I don't actually know how to modify the 5 and 6-suit entries, so someone else will have to do that (they should be 16 and 18 PV, respectively).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Gruber on 29 August 2019, 03:38:44
Regarding brawler adding a simple note after the different brawler multipliers are described would do the trick.

Something along the lines:
Round the modified PV subtotal to the nearest 0.5.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Thunder on 29 August 2019, 04:01:08
Converting Heat Errata v1.1 for Heat-modified damage says "The result is rounded up to the nearest tenth place, then rounded up again to the nearest whole number".

9.205 gets rounded to the nearest tenth place 9.2, then rounded up to the nearest whole number, 10.

But he's talking about Special ability damage (Which is rounded normally).  The test to see if the unit has that special ability (Medium range damage of just that weapon system of >=1) happens before any final damage rounding.  Thus.  .92 rounds to .9, which is less then 1.  Thus that Catapult gets no LRM ability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 29 August 2019, 06:43:11
Heat-modified damage has it's own round up to the tenth place.
This round up to the nearest tenth is for heat-modified step and applies to all damage.
0.34 would round up to 0.4.
0.9205 rounds up to 1.0.
Final damage rounding is a separate step, and rounds to a whole number.  That step has different rounding for base damage (round up) and special ability damage (round normal). 
For the two examples above, final damage rounding would then be
0.4 for base rounds up to 1, 0.4 for special ability rounds normal to 0.
1.0 for base and special ability is 1.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Thunder on 31 August 2019, 06:43:11
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2850/scytha-b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2850/scytha-b)

Mounts an AMS.  It should have the AMS special ability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 31 August 2019, 16:12:49
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2850/scytha-b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2850/scytha-b)

Mounts an AMS.  It should have the AMS special ability.

Aerospace fighters get PNT, not AMS. That’s why it doesn’t have AMS, it would be redudnadmat.
I do see the ASC is confusing this, so will be posting errata.  But aero fighters can’t subtract 1 with AMS and then subtract 1 again with PNT..
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Thunder on 31 August 2019, 16:36:05
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5756/tatsu-mik-oe (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5756/tatsu-mik-oe)

Has AMS and PNT.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 31 August 2019, 16:39:55
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5756/tatsu-mik-oe (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5756/tatsu-mik-oe)

Has AMS and PNT.

Thanks, will be fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: VhenRa on 05 September 2019, 23:59:08
I've got a question for MUL team.

What is with the introduction date of the Manticore? Says saw solid service in the Reunification War... introduced in 2660s.

Edit: I didn't check anything else for this, too much effort.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 06 September 2019, 07:46:25
I've got a question for MUL team.

What is with the introduction date of the Manticore? Says saw solid service in the Reunification War... introduced in 2660s.

Edit: I didn't check anything else for this, too much effort.

An error, intro date changed to 2575.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Dragon41673 on 07 September 2019, 20:16:34
Just an FYI to you guys, wasn't sure where to post this...the MUL has been VERY slow to load pages all day long today.

EDIT: And just like that...it's working quickly again. Ugh, should have waited just 20 minutes longer before posting.

Second EDIT I take that back...it's back to being super slow again.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Colt Ward on 11 September 2019, 10:50:28
When looking at Wolf Clan for Invasion Era it shows the Black Knight 6 but not the Royal . . . and the line right above is the Warhammer 6Rb, but no -7A either.  Since it includes IS Clan General, I think both would be added to that list.  It also lacks the Marauder 3R (C).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 14 September 2019, 15:04:38
Looking at the Alpha Strike cards for all the Boreas units (e.g., http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7352/boreas-a), they list the movement as 12"qt. I believe this may be a mistake as they all have a Walk MP of 4 as well as a Cruise MP of 4 (while in vehicle mode). Since movement is based off Walk for BattleMechs, I believe these should all be changed to 8"qt.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Henning on 24 September 2019, 04:05:28
Short question on the skill conversion tables per Mech etc:
Is this table still correct or is this in need of updates after some errata in the tech manual regarding modifiers for skill conversion?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 24 September 2019, 09:53:24
The TechManual table errata is years-old and so the MUL is fully up to date in that regard.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 28 September 2019, 18:06:59
I'm getting different damage values and Overheat for the Malice MAL-YZ (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6727/malice-mal-yz).

The MUL lists the damage values of 3/3/3 with an OV of 2.
But my calculations are yielding damage values of 2/2/2 with an OV of 3.

Since the calculations are effectively the same at each range, I'll show mine for medium (since it shows OV). It shows the normal damage value would be 5, and after all the heat it should be 2, thus an OV of 3. Am I doing something wrong or is the MUL wrong?

Code: [Select]
======================================================================================================================
Determine Medium Range Damage Value
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:            Unit is inefficient                                                                     
     4 (Base) + 24 (Heat Sinks) + 2 (Coolant Pods)                                                          =       30
     6 (Movement) + 44 (Weapons) + 10 (Anti-Missile)                                           (-)      60  =      -30
                                                                                                                     
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                      =    0.000
     ER Large Laser                                                                            (+)   1.000  =    1.000
     ER Large Laser                                                                            (+)   1.000  =    2.000
     Large Pulse Laser                                                                         (+)   1.100  =    3.100
     Large Pulse Laser                                                                         (+)   1.100  =    4.200
                                                                                                                     
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                                         
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                                   (*)      26  =  109.200
     Divided by the maximum heat output - 4                                                    (/)      56  =    1.950
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                                        =      2.0
     Unit receives Overheat (OV) value of 3                                                                           
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Medium Range Damage Value:                                                                                     2
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 28 September 2019, 18:15:47
Think I figured it out. The old heat rules doubled movement heat for units with an XXL. The errata'd version has heat for units with an XXL at a minimum of 6. That makes the entire difference with this unit, because the heat-modified damage with 4 movement heat would be 2.022 (whereas it is 1.950 with 6 movement heat); rounded ultimately to 3.

So, I believe more firmly now that the MUL needs to be updated. :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 September 2019, 18:34:56
Yeah, and that means AS Companion needs errata and every single XXL engine unit needs to be rechecked.  Remind me not to check who is responsible for that errata :).

EDIT: actually the AS Companion already has the errata...still have to recheck all the XXL engine units..
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 28 September 2019, 19:11:33
...still have to recheck all the XXL engine units..

You're welcome!!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 28 September 2019, 19:16:51
If you'd like, I can run through units with XXL engines and verify the stats for you. I count 79 canon units with an XXL engine. Will be simple enough for me to cross-check my data and flag any that are different. You can then verify my math. Or you can do it yourself if you'd like. Let me know as I'm happy to lend a hand. :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 September 2019, 19:31:18
That would be awesome.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 28 September 2019, 19:33:25
That would be awesome.

OK, give me a few days and I'll let you know what I find!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 29 September 2019, 20:10:27
Done! I've looked through all 79 designs with XXL engines. I found 15 had issues with Short, Medium, or Long range damage values, or the Overheat value. Of those 15, I could only attribute 3 being due to the XXL change.

I want to review my work on the other 12 to make sure I didn't screw up, but what's the best way to communicate those to you? Want me to just place them here along with my work? Don't want to SPAM the MUL thread. :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 29 September 2019, 20:25:06
That's what this thread is for.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 29 September 2019, 20:55:51
Hellstar (Matt Houan) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7418/hellstar-matt-houan)

Not sure if this is a canon variant. The naming convention is unusual, plus I don't see anything in TRO:3085 or RS:3085. If it is legit, "Sniper" is listed in the specials. That isn't a special to my knowledge.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 29 September 2019, 21:23:07
It's from the first Alpha Strike Unit Card deck.  It's a unique pilot/mech, Sniper is a Special Pilot Ability.  We list those on the same block.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 30 September 2019, 15:43:06
The following three units appear to have slightly wrong stats due to the errata with the XXL engine (what the values should be and my calculations are shown for each):

Dark Crow 3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/825/dark-crow-3)
Short-range damage should be 2; Medium-range damage should be 2; OV should be 2
Code: [Select]
===========================================================================================================
Determine Short Range Damage Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:                Unit is inefficient                                                     
     4 (Base) + 20 (Heat Sinks) + 3 (Partial Wing)                                                =      27
     16 (Movement) + 26 (Weapons)                                                    (-)      42  =     -15
                                                                                                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                            =   0.000
     Rotary AC/2                  [Insufficient Ammo]                                (+)   0.600  =   0.600
     Rotary AC/2                  [Insufficient Ammo]                                (+)   0.600  =   1.200
     Improved Heavy Medium Laser                                                     (+)   1.000  =   2.200
     Improved Heavy Medium Laser                                                     (+)   1.000  =   3.200
                                                                                                           
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                             
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                         (*)      23  =  73.600
     Divided by the maximum heat output - 4                                          (/)      38  =   1.937
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                              =     2.0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Short Range Damage Value:                                                                           2

===========================================================================================================
Determine Medium Range Damage Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:                Unit is inefficient                                                     
     4 (Base) + 20 (Heat Sinks) + 3 (Partial Wing)                                                =      27
     16 (Movement) + 26 (Weapons)                                                    (-)      42  =     -15
                                                                                                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                            =   0.000
     Rotary AC/2                  [Insufficient Ammo]                                (+)   0.600  =   0.600
     Rotary AC/2                  [Insufficient Ammo]                                (+)   0.600  =   1.200
     Improved Heavy Medium Laser                                                     (+)   1.000  =   2.200
     Improved Heavy Medium Laser                                                     (+)   1.000  =   3.200
                                                                                                           
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                             
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                         (*)      23  =  73.600
     Divided by the maximum heat output - 4                                          (/)      38  =   1.937
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                              =     2.0
     Unit receives Overheat (OV) value of 2                                                               
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Medium Range Damage Value:                                                                          2

Warhammer IIC 12 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6857/warhammer-iic-12)
Short-range damage should be 5; Medium-range damage should be 5; OV should be 2
Code: [Select]
=====================================================================================================================
Determine Short Range Damage Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:            Unit is inefficient                                                                   
     4 (Base) + 40 (Heat Sinks)                                                                            =       44
     6 (Movement) + 48 (Weapons)                                                              (-)      54  =      -10
                                                                                                                     
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                     =    0.000
     ER Small Laser                                                                           (+)   0.500  =    0.500
     ER Small Laser                                                                           (+)   0.500  =    1.000
     ER Medium Laser                                                                          (+)   0.700  =    1.700
     ER Medium Laser                                                                          (+)   0.700  =    2.400
     SRM 6                                                                                    (+)   0.800  =    3.200
     ER PPC                                                                                   (+)   1.500  =    4.700
     ER PPC                                                                                   (+)   1.500  =    6.200
                                                                                                                     
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                                       
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                                  (*)      40  =  248.000
     Divided by the maximum heat output - 4                                                   (/)      50  =    4.960
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                                       =      5.0
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Short Range Damage Value:                                                                                     5

=====================================================================================================================
Determine Medium Range Damage Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:            Unit is inefficient                                                                   
     4 (Base) + 40 (Heat Sinks)                                                                            =       44
     6 (Movement) + 48 (Weapons)                                                              (-)      54  =      -10
                                                                                                                     
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                     =    0.000
     ER Small Laser                                                                           (+)   0.500  =    0.500
     ER Small Laser                                                                           (+)   0.500  =    1.000
     ER Medium Laser                                                                          (+)   0.700  =    1.700
     ER Medium Laser                                                                          (+)   0.700  =    2.400
     SRM 6                                                                                    (+)   0.800  =    3.200
     ER PPC                                                                                   (+)   1.500  =    4.700
     ER PPC                                                                                   (+)   1.500  =    6.200
                                                                                                                     
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                                       
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                                  (*)      40  =  248.000
     Divided by the maximum heat output - 4                                                   (/)      50  =    4.960
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                                       =      5.0
     Unit receives Overheat (OV) value of 2                                                                         
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Medium Range Damage Value:                                                                                    5

Zeus-X ZEU-X4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6630/zeus-x-zeu-x4)
Medium-range damage should be 3; OV should be 1
Code: [Select]
====================================================================================================================
Determine Medium Range Damage Value
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:            Unit is inefficient                                                                   
     4 (Base) + 22 (Heat Sinks)                                                                            =      26
     6 (Movement) + 25 (Weapons)                                                              (-)      31  =      -5
                                                                                                                   
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                     =   0.000
     Medium X-Pulse Laser                                                                     (+)   0.660  =   0.660
     Light Gauss Rifle                                                                        (+)   0.800  =   1.460
     ER Large Laser                                                                           (+)   0.800  =   2.260
     LRM 20                                                                                   (+)   1.200  =   3.460
                                                                                                                   
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                                       
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                                  (*)      22  =  76.120
     Divided by the maximum heat output - 4                                                   (/)      27  =   2.819
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                                       =     2.9
     Unit receives Overheat (OV) value of 1                                                                         
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Medium Range Damage Value:                                                                                   3
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Thunder on 30 September 2019, 23:31:25
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/269/battle-cobra-btl-c-2of (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/269/battle-cobra-btl-c-2of)

The HT1/1/1 should be HT1/1/0.
Plasma Rifles don't produce heat past medium range.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/1470?skill=4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/1470?skill=4)

Bomb Special ability should be BOMB2
Fighters bomb special is equal to it's size.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 01 October 2019, 20:21:54
A couple more...

Ostscout IIC (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5844/ostscout-iic-standard)
There doesn't seem to be an Alpha Strike card at all for this unit.

Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf) C (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6573/mad-cat-mk-iv-savage-wolf-c)
Long-range damage should be 3 (currently listed as 4). I believe the long-range weapon heat was used instead of the full weapon heat when calculating heat-modified damage (per the errata). My calculation is below.
Code: [Select]
========================================================================================================
Determine Long Range Damage Value
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:            Unit is inefficient                                                       
     4 (Base) + 30 (Heat Sinks)                                                               =       34
     6 (Movement) + 34 (Weapons)                                                 (-)      40  =       -6
                                                                                                       
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                        =    0.000
     ER Large Laser                                                              (+)   1.000  =    1.000
     ER Large Laser                                                              (+)   1.000  =    2.000
     LRM 15 w/ Artemis V FCS                                                     (+)   1.260  =    3.260
     LRM 15 w/ Artemis V FCS                                                     (+)   1.260  =    4.520
                                                                                                       
  Determine Overheat Long:                                                                             
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                     (*)      30  =  135.600
     Divided by the maximum long-range heat output - 4                           (/)      36  =    3.767
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                          =      3.8
     Unit receives the Overheat Long (OVL) special ability                                             
                                                                                                       
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                           
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                     (*)      30  =  135.600
     Divided by the maximum heat output - 4                                      (/)      54  =    2.511
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                          =      2.6
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Long Range Damage Value:                                                                         3
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Thunder on 02 October 2019, 13:53:31
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6998/foot-level-i-laser-x2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6998/foot-level-i-laser-x2)

The armor on these guys seems off. (And by extention the other Comstar split platoons)  The Card is supposed to represent 18 men (Half a level 1).  In order to have 3 points of armor, they would need an armor divisor of 3.  So unless Comstar's infantry are either cyborgs or belters with heavy armor...

I'd be able to give better math, but I can't find a record sheet or TRO for them.  I would assume that comstar forces tend to have heavy armor for a armor divisor of 2.  (Based on the TRO 3085 entries.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 October 2019, 20:53:58
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6998/foot-level-i-laser-x2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6998/foot-level-i-laser-x2)

The armor on these guys seems off. (And by extention the other Comstar split platoons)  The Card is supposed to represent 18 men (Half a level 1).  In order to have 3 points of armor, they would need an armor divisor of 3.  So unless Comstar's infantry are either cyborgs or belters with heavy armor...

I'd be able to give better math, but I can't find a record sheet or TRO for them.  I would assume that comstar forces tend to have heavy armor for a armor divisor of 2.  (Based on the TRO 3085 entries.)

Having to check, I've heard both 36 and 28 for Comstar platoons.  So first I have to find the correct answer there.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 October 2019, 20:55:48
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/269/battle-cobra-btl-c-2of (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/269/battle-cobra-btl-c-2of)

The HT1/1/1 should be HT1/1/0.
Plasma Rifles don't produce heat past medium range.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/1470?skill=4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/1470?skill=4)

Bomb Special ability should be BOMB2
Fighters bomb special is equal to it's size.
Thanks Thunder!
PS. When linking (very helpful, thanks again), please link to the unit page, not the card image.  That leaves me stuck in no man's land. I've still got to go find it myself so it kind of wastes the effort you did. :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 04 October 2019, 21:08:16
Having to check, I've heard both 36 and 28 for Comstar platoons.  So first I have to find the correct answer there.

For this one it should be fairly easy, at least; the notes on the unit entry and the unit's name say it's a split platoon, so the card should be for half of a 36-trooper platoon.

If it's a 28-trooper platoon then the (x2) and note should be removed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 October 2019, 21:17:19
FM:ComStar says CS infantry are 28 trooper platoons. Therefore the entire card is wrong if it’s based on 36, unless I’m missing a source for 36 trooper CS infantry platoons.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 04 October 2019, 21:37:34
FM:ComStar says CS infantry are 28 trooper platoons. Therefore the entire card is wrong if it’s based on 36, unless I’m missing a source for 36 trooper CS infantry platoons.

Tech Manual is the source for 36 trooper CS platoons with 6 squads of 6 forming a Level I; they're mentioned repeatedly as an example of a platoon large enough to be split along with the Marians.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 05 October 2019, 06:38:41
Per TechManual, their Jump Platoons are 30 as well (the "-1 squad" model).
Title: Agrotera AGT-1A Alpha Strike Stats Discrepancy
Post by: mordel on 14 October 2019, 18:00:55
I've finally finished my conversion script for calculating Alpha Strike stats, and I've reviewed the stats for a handful of designs against what was listed in the MUL. While many are correct, quite a few are wrong. I'm going to double-check my conversion to verify I think it's right, and will post my findings here to have the MUL updated (or my conversion corrected). I realize many may be wrong due to errata issued. Consider this fair warning! :)

Agrotera AGT-1A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6459/agrotera-agt-1a)
Issue: The Long-Range Damage value is listed as 2, but it should be 1. The only weapon that does Long-Range damage is the ER PPC, and that has a damage value of 1. The only thing I can possibly think of is, the unit as an AES in the arm with the ER PPC. If that's considered, it may bump it's value to 2 as it does add a small amount of additional damage in game play. However, there's no mention of the AES having any impact on damage values. Below is the basic Long-Range damage value calculation. Note that this also changes the PV to 30.

Code: [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Long Range Damage Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is efficient                                                         
     4 (Base) + 20 (Heat Sinks) + 3 (Partial Wing)                                                =       27
     8 (Movement) + 15 (Weapons)                                                    (-)       23  =        4
                                                                                                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                            =    0.000
     ER PPC                                                                         (+)    1.000  =    1.000
                                                                                                           
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                               
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                              =      1.0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Long Range Damage Value:                                                                             1
Title: Akuma AKU-2XK Alpha Strike Stats Discrepancy
Post by: mordel on 14 October 2019, 18:11:39
Akuma AKU-2XK (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5714/akuma-aku-2xk)
Issue: The unit does not list ECM as a Special. It should since it is equipped with a Guardian ECM. Adding this also has the effect of increasing the PV to 54. I've included the PV calculation for reference.

Code: [Select]
=========================================================================================================================
Determine Point Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit's Offensive Value:                                                                                               
     Attack Damage Factor        4 (Short) + 4 (Medium) + 4 (Medium) + 3 (Long)                                =   15.000
     Unit Size Factor            4 (Weight/Size Class) / 2                                       (+)    2.000  =   17.000
     Overheat Factor             1 (Base OV) + 1 (0.5 per OV > 1)                                (+)    2.000  =   19.000
     Special Ability Factor      [IF1] 1 (Ability Rating)                                        (+)    1.000  =   20.000
     Blanket Offensive Modifier  1 (Base)                                                        (*)    1.000  =   20.000
                                                                                                                         
  Defensive Interaction Rating:                                                                                         
     Armor Factor                9 (Armor) x 2.0 (Non-Vehicle Unit)                                            =   18.000
     Structure Factor            7 (Structure) x 1.0 (Other Unit)                                (+)    7.000  =   25.000
     Defense Factor              1 + {[1 (6" Move)] x 0.1}                                       (*)    1.100  =   27.500
     Final DIR                   Round to nearest half point                                                   =   27.500
                                                                                                                         
  Unit's Defensive Value:                                                                                               
     Movement Factor             0.75 (0.25 per 2")                                                            =    0.750
     Final DIR                   Defensive Interaction Rating                                    (+)   27.500  =   28.250
                                                                                                                         
  Unit's Final Point Value:                                                                                             
     Offensive Value                                                                                           =   20.000
     Defensive Value                                                                             (+)   28.250  =   48.250
     C3                          48.25 (Subtotal) * 0.05                                         (+)    2.500  =   50.750
     Force Bonus                 [ECM] Electronic Countermeasures                                (+)    2.000  =   52.750
     Force Bonus                 [MHQ1] Mobile Headquarters                                      (+)    1.000  =   53.750
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Point Value:                                                                                                     54
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 October 2019, 19:06:02
AES in the arm gives a -1 to hit with weapons in that arm.  That does bump up the damage.

EDIT: Does indeed look like ASC left that out when it tried to simplify things.  There is a general 1.05x multiplier for -1 to-hit effects.  Most are already included in specific weapons, targeting computers get 1.1 (for -1 to hit and the aimed shot ability).  AES would apply a 1.05x modifier to any weapons mounted in the arm with AES.
Title: Re: Akuma AKU-2XK Alpha Strike Stats Discrepancy
Post by: nckestrel on 14 October 2019, 19:20:35
Akuma AKU-2XK (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5714/akuma-aku-2xk)
Issue: The unit does not list ECM as a Special. It should since it is equipped with a Guardian ECM. Adding this also has the effect of increasing the PV to 54. I've included the PV calculation for reference.

Yep, we missed the ECM.  Card updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 14 October 2019, 20:43:11
AES in the arm gives a -1 to hit with weapons in that arm.  That does bump up the damage.

EDIT: Does indeed look like ASC left that out when it tried to simplify things.  There is a general 1.05x multiplier for -1 to-hit effects.  Most are already included in specific weapons, targeting computers get 1.1 (for -1 to hit and the aimed shot ability).  AES would apply a 1.05x modifier to any weapons mounted in the arm with AES.

That makes sense. I've tweaked my script to modify the damage for a weapon in an arm with AES by 1.05, and as expected, everything looks correct now. That'll likely clear-up a few of the mismatches I saw. Onto the next one...

Albatross ALB-5W (Dantalion) (http://)
Issue: The OV value is listed as 3 while in actuality it is 2. Not really sure where the 3 would be coming from as the unmodified medium range damage is 5, heat-modified is 3, and the card lists the 3 damage correctly. In addition, this unit is likewise missing ECM as it is equipped with a Guardian ECM. Both of these will have a minor impact on PV. I've included my calculations for both the Medium-Range Damage (including OV) and PV for reference.

Code: [Select]
=========================================================================================================================
Determine Medium Range Damage Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is inefficient                                                                     
     4 (Base) + 26 (Heat Sinks)                                                                                =       30
     2 (Movement) + 49 (Weapons) + 7 (Anti-Missile)                                              (-)       58  =      -28
                                                                                                                         
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                         =    0.000
     ER Small Laser                                                                              (+)    0.300  =    0.300
     ER Medium Laser                                                                             (+)    0.500  =    0.800
     ER Medium Laser                                                                             (+)    0.500  =    1.300
     Medium Pulse Laser                                                                          (+)    0.660  =    1.960
     Medium Pulse Laser                                                                          (+)    0.660  =    2.620
     ER PPC w/ Capacitor                                                                         (+)    0.750  =    3.370
     Large VSP Laser                                                                             (+)    0.863  =    4.233
                                                                                                                         
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                                           
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                                     (*)       26  =  110.058
     Divided by the maximum heat output - 4                                                      (/)       54  =    2.038
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                                           =      2.1
     Unit receives Overheat (OV) value of 2                                                                             
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Medium Range Damage Value:                                                                                        3

=========================================================================================================================
Determine Point Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit's Offensive Value:                                                                                               
     Attack Damage Factor        3 (Short) + 3 (Medium) + 3 (Medium) + 1 (Long)                                =   10.000
     Unit Size Factor            4 (Weight/Size Class) / 2                                       (+)    2.000  =   12.000
     Overheat Factor             1 (Base OV) + 0.5 (0.5 per OV > 1)                              (+)    1.500  =   13.500
     Special Ability Factor      [TSM] Triple-Strength Myomer                                    (+)    1.000  =   14.500
     Blanket Offensive Modifier  1 (Base)                                                        (*)    1.000  =   14.500
                                                                                                                         
  Defensive Interaction Rating:                                                                                         
     Armor Factor                10 (Armor) x 2.0 (Non-Vehicle Unit)                                           =   20.000
     Structure Factor            5 (Structure) x 1.0 (Other Unit)                                (+)    5.000  =   25.000
     Defense Factor              1 + {[1 (8" Move)] x 0.1}                                       (*)    1.100  =   27.500
     Final DIR                   Round to nearest half point                                                   =   27.500
                                                                                                                         
  Unit's Defensive Value:                                                                                               
     Movement Factor             1 (0.25 per 2")                                                               =    1.000
     Special Ability Factor      [AMS] Anti-Missile System                                       (+)    1.000  =    2.000
     Final DIR                   Defensive Interaction Rating                                    (+)   27.500  =   29.500
                                                                                                                         
  Unit's Final Point Value:                                                                                             
     Offensive Value                                                                                           =   14.500
     Defensive Value                                                                             (+)   29.500  =   44.000
     Force Bonus                 [ECM] Electronic Countermeasures                                (+)    2.000  =   46.000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Point Value:                                                                                                     46
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 15 October 2019, 08:23:32
albratross Dantalion updated.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 15 October 2019, 14:06:21
Annihilator ANH-1X (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/38/annihilator-anh-1x)
Issue: The FLK value in MUL is listed as FLK3/3/3, but it should be FLK2/2/3. I don't have the calculation breakdown, but I think it's due to heat errata. FLK damage at short and medium is 0.630 x 4 LB 10-X ACs, which equals 2.52. Heat modified it becomes 2.52 * 20 / 23 which equals 2.191 (or rounded up to 2.2). This is then rounded normally to the nearest whole number, so becomes 2. PV is unchanged.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 15 October 2019, 14:22:21
Antlion LK-3D (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6338/antlion-lk-3d)
Issue: Structure is listed as 4, but it should be 2 per the 'Mech structure conversion table (ASC, p.98) as the unit is 45 tons with an Inner Sphere XL. This has a downstream impact on the PV as it should be 31 (calculation included below). Also, the specials list RSD whereas it should be RSD1 (many other designs properly list it as RSD1); the specials where you don't list the number specifically call it out not to do so in the conversion rules (e.g., "If a unit carries only one C3 Boosted Slave, it receives the C3BSS special, with no number.").

Code: [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Point Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit's Offensive Value:                                                                                   
     Attack Damage Factor        1 (Short) + 2 (Medium) + 2 (Medium) + 2 (Long)                   =    7.000
     Unit Size Factor            2 (Weight/Size Class) / 2                          (+)    1.000  =    8.000
     Overheat Factor             0 (Overheat)                                       (+)    0.000  =    8.000
     Special Ability Factor      [IF1] 1 (Ability Rating)                           (+)    1.000  =    9.000
     Blanket Offensive Modifier  1 (Base)                                           (*)    1.000  =    9.000
                                                                                                           
  Defensive Interaction Rating:                                                                             
     Armor Factor                5 (Armor) x 2.0 (Non-Vehicle Unit)                               =   10.000
     Structure Factor            2 (Structure) x 1.0 (Other Unit)                   (+)    2.000  =   12.000
     Defense Factor              1 + {[2 (10" Move)] x 0.1}                         (*)    1.200  =   14.400
     Final DIR                   Round to nearest half point                                      =   14.500
                                                                                                           
  Unit's Defensive Value:                                                                                   
     Movement Factor             1.25 (0.25 per 2")                                               =    1.250
     Final DIR                   Defensive Interaction Rating                       (+)   14.500  =   15.750
                                                                                                           
  Unit's Final Point Value:                                                                                 
     Offensive Value                                                                              =    9.000
     Defensive Value                                                                (+)   15.750  =   24.750
     Agile                       2 (TMM) - 1 * 2 (Medium)                           (+)    2.000  =   26.750
     Force Bonus                 [BH] Bloodhound Active Probe                       (+)    2.000  =   28.750
     Force Bonus                 [RCN] Recon                                        (+)    2.000  =   30.750
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Point Value:                                                                                        31
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 15 October 2019, 14:53:13
The Antlion has reinforced structure, which doubles its Structure value.  RSD value corrected though; thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 15 October 2019, 16:35:39
The Antlion has reinforced structure, which doubles its Structure value.  RSD value corrected though; thanks.

It's as if I intentionally ignored that entire section labeled Special Structure Types!  I've accounted for that now, and all is good with the Antlion. Thank you...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: AwesomeJLee on 16 October 2019, 03:36:01
The Wyvern 5N (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3597/wyvern-wve-5n) should, according to the Tukayyid book, be available to Comstar during the renaissance era (presumably all the way back to comstar's formation).

The Wyvern 9N (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3600/wyvern-wve-9n) should, again, according to the Tukayyid book, be available to Comstar during the Clan Invasion era, and presumably after.

Both units are listed as available in the Comstar force selection chart on, I think, page 21 of the Tukayyid book.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 16 October 2019, 15:14:12
Anvil ANV-3M (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/48/anvil-anv-3m)
Issue: Unit lists the movement as 10"/8"j. However, the unit is equipped with 3 standard jump jets and no other equipment which impacts jump movement, so should only receive a 6" jump. So final movement would be listed as 10"/6"j. All other stats are fine as is as the change in jump does not impact anything.

Code: [Select]
============================================================================================================
Convert Movement and Movement Modes
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ground Movement:               5 (Walk)                                                         =      10"
     Ground Target Movement Modifier at 10" is 2                                                           
                                                                                                           
  Jumping Movement:              3 (Jump)                                                         =      6"j
     Jumping Target Movement Modifier at 6" is 1                                                           
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Movement and Movement Modes:                                                                   10"/6"j
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 16 October 2019, 15:20:31
Anvil ANV-3M (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/48/anvil-anv-3m)
Issue: Unit lists the movement as 10"/8"j. However, the unit is equipped with 3 standard jump jets and no other equipment which impacts jump movement, so should only receive a 6" jump. So final movement would be listed as 10"/6"j. All other stats are fine as is as the change in jump does not impact anything.

Looking through all the Anvil's, the Anvil ANV-5Q (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/51/anvil-anv-5q) and Anvil ANV-6M (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/52/anvil-anv-6m) also have a movement incorrectly listed at 10"/8"j when it should be 10"/6"j because both also only have 3 jump jets.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 18 October 2019, 10:16:54
I take it the name changes from the Record Sheets in the MUL are deliberate choices and should be considered "Correct" ?

In this case, I'm talking about the

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4793/patron-i-loadermech

This used to be the PTN Patron LoaderMech

and

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4792/patron-standard-loadermech

This one used to be the PTN-1 Patron LoaderMech

What's strange about the change is that the later variants keep the PTN tag.




Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 18 October 2019, 10:44:36
Aquagladius AQS-3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/58/aquagladius-aqs-3)
Issue: I believe there's are several things wrong on this unit...

First, the short-range damage is listed as 0*, but the unit contains no weapons that deliver damage as it only has a Flail and a Taser, both of which add to special abilities. So I believe the short-range damage should be 0.

Second, the unit is listed as having the ENE special, but both the Taser and the ammo explodes for 6 points of damage in TacOps. I know there was some errata needed around what's considered explosive or not, so this is likely one of those things.

Third, the MTAS special ability should have a # after it to indicate the quantity carried, as per the MTAS# wording (ASC p.132).

Fourth, the PV is incorrectly calculated as 19 when it should be 20. I've included my PV calculation below.

Code: [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Point Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit's Offensive Value:                                                                                   
     Attack Damage Factor        0 (Short) + 0 (Medium) + 0 (Medium) + 0 (Long)                   =    0.000
     Unit Size Factor            2 (Weight/Size Class) / 2                          (+)    1.000  =    1.000
     Overheat Factor             0 (Overheat)                                       (+)    0.000  =    1.000
     Special Ability Factor      [MEL] Melee Weapon                                 (+)    0.500  =    1.500
     Special Ability Factor      [MTAS1] 1 (Ability Rating)                         (+)    1.000  =    2.500
     Blanket Offensive Modifier  1 (Base)                                           (*)    1.000  =    2.500
                                                                                                           
  Defensive Interaction Rating:                                                                             
     Armor Factor                5 (Armor) x 2.0 (Non-Vehicle Unit)                               =   10.000
     Structure Factor            3 (Structure) x 1.0 (Other Unit)                   (+)    3.000  =   13.000
     Defense Factor              1 + {[2 (12" Move)] x 0.1}                         (*)    1.200  =   15.600
     Final DIR                   Round to nearest half point                                      =   15.500
                                                                                                           
  Unit's Defensive Value:                                                                                   
     Movement Factor             1.5 (0.25 per 2")                                                =    1.500
     Final DIR                   Defensive Interaction Rating                       (+)   15.500  =   17.000
                                                                                                           
  Unit's Final Point Value:                                                                                 
     Offensive Value                                                                              =    2.500
     Defensive Value                                                                (+)   17.000  =   19.500
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Point Value:                                                                                        20
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 October 2019, 12:40:06
Taser does 1 damage (in BT), so it's 0.1 in AS conversion.
Yeah, I think the explosive is part of the awaiting errata.  It should eventually be not ENE.
MTAS, yep.
and that MTAS missing the number was the reason the PV was off.  You are correct with 20.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 October 2019, 12:42:20
anvils' jump fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 October 2019, 12:46:14
The Wyvern 5N (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3597/wyvern-wve-5n) should, according to the Tukayyid book, be available to Comstar during the renaissance era (presumably all the way back to comstar's formation).

The Wyvern 9N (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3600/wyvern-wve-9n) should, again, according to the Tukayyid book, be available to Comstar during the Clan Invasion era, and presumably after.

Both units are listed as available in the Comstar force selection chart on, I think, page 21 of the Tukayyid book.

Comstar upgraded all of its Wyverns to the 9N prior to Tukayyid.  TR3050U p196. "Prior to the battle of Tukayyid, ComStar upgraded its Wyverns to the WVE-9N variant."
The 9N does have Comstar availability listed.

EDIT: WVE-5N added to Comstar for Clan Invasion era.   
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 October 2019, 13:57:29
ComStar Foot Level Is have been updated to 2 Armor (and losing 1 PV for the lowered armor).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 October 2019, 14:00:33
Annihilator ANH-1X (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/38/annihilator-anh-1x)
Issue: The FLK value in MUL is listed as FLK3/3/3, but it should be FLK2/2/3. I don't have the calculation breakdown, but I think it's due to heat errata. FLK damage at short and medium is 0.630 x 4 LB 10-X ACs, which equals 2.52. Heat modified it becomes 2.52 * 20 / 23 which equals 2.191 (or rounded up to 2.2). This is then rounded normally to the nearest whole number, so becomes 2. PV is unchanged.

Yep, should be 2/2/3. Corrected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 October 2019, 14:02:18
A couple more...

Ostscout IIC (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5844/ostscout-iic-standard)
There doesn't seem to be an Alpha Strike card at all for this unit.

None of the Boondoggles get AS cards.  There's no boondoggle rule in AS, so they can't be used in AS. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 October 2019, 14:05:50
Mad Cat Mk IV (Savage Wolf) C (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6573/mad-cat-mk-iv-savage-wolf-c)
Long-range damage should be 3 (currently listed as 4).

Yep, long range 3, and added OVL. PV dropped 1.  Congrats, you can do 6 at long range now (and only _almost_ shutdown).

Dark Crow 3 and Warhammer IIC 12 also adjusted for XXL engines.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 18 October 2019, 16:13:22
Taser does 1 damage (in BT), so it's 0.1 in AS conversion.

Thanks for all the updates and confirmations! Two final questions (I hope) on the Taser.

1) It's currently not listed in the 'ALPHA STRIKE WEAPON CONVERSION TABLE', so am assuming Errata would need to add the 0.1 at short range?
2) The part that makes it confusing (and why I initially thought it was intentionally left out for damage purposes) is that ASCE p.90 states "All Taser attacks are resolved separately,..." This led me to believe that the ability itself was what the taser granted, and thus why no damage was allocated for it. Does it get the Taser damage AND the special attack?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 18 October 2019, 17:10:08
So...

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7152/harvester-ant-kic-3m-agromech-mod

is exactly the same as

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1396/harvester-ant-kic-3-agromech-mg

and

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7153/harvester-ant-kic-3m-b-agromech-mod

is exacly the same as

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1395/harvester-ant-kic-3-agromech-lrm

The most recent is the "MOD" variants from TRVA compared to KLONDIKE. Though the KLONDIKE ones might have more data on the availability (extra extinction stages). Should these continue to be considered separate units as one is Pirates in the IS and technically the other is pirates in the Clan Homeworlds, or should they be combined? If so, what's the correct nomenclature?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 18 October 2019, 18:48:00
Arbalest 2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/60/arbalest-2)
Issue: Movement is listed as 10" but it should be 12" since the unit is equipped with MASC. Subsequently the PV is 24 due to the speed increase. Calculations below.

Code: (Movement Calculation) [Select]
=======================================================================================================
Convert Movement and Movement Modes
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ground Movement:               5 (Walk)                                                     =     10"
     Equipped with MASC                                                          (*)    1.25  =     12"
     Ground Target Movement Modifier at 12" is 2                                                       
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Movement and Movement Modes:                                                                  12"

Code: (Point Value Calculation) [Select]
=======================================================================================================
Determine Point Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit's Offensive Value:                                                                             
     Attack Damage Factor        2 (Short) + 2 (Medium) + 2 (Medium) + 1 (Long)               =   7.000
     Unit Size Factor            1 (Weight/Size Class) / 2                       (+)   0.500  =   7.500
     Overheat Factor             0 (Overheat)                                    (+)   0.000  =   7.500
     Special Ability Factor      [IF1] 1 (Ability Rating)                        (+)   1.000  =   8.500
     Blanket Offensive Modifier  1 (Base)                                        (*)   1.000  =   8.500
                                                                                                       
  Defensive Interaction Rating:                                                                       
     Armor Factor                3 (Armor) x 2.0 (Non-Vehicle Unit)                           =   6.000
     Structure Factor            2 (Structure) x 1.0 (Other Unit)                (+)   2.000  =   8.000
     Defense Factor              1 + {[2 (12" Move)] x 0.1}                      (*)   1.200  =   9.600
     Final DIR                   Round to nearest half point                                  =   9.500
                                                                                                       
  Unit's Defensive Value:                                                                             
     Movement Factor             1.5 (0.25 per 2")                                            =   1.500
     Final DIR                   Defensive Interaction Rating                    (+)   9.500  =  11.000
                                                                                                       
  Unit's Final Point Value:                                                                           
     Offensive Value                                                                          =   8.500
     Defensive Value                                                             (+)  11.000  =  19.500
     Agile                       2 (TMM) - 1 x 2 (Medium)                        (+)   2.000  =  21.500
     Force Bonus                 [ECM] Electronic Countermeasures                (+)   2.000  =  23.500
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Point Value:                                                                                   24
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 18 October 2019, 19:12:47
Dark Age Turning Points Liao had a RA-4 Cattlemaster HerderMech that is exactly the same as the CTL-3R Cattlemaster HerderMech from RS:VA.

I take it since its not in the MUL that its was supposed to be the 3R and thus the RA-4 doesn't exist?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 20 October 2019, 00:04:28
I guess I should ask, but what takes precedence, the Record Sheet name or the MUL name?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 20 October 2019, 13:05:21
Arcas 3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5686/arcas-3)
Issue: Both the short-range damage and medium-range damage is listed as 4 with an overheat of 1. They should both, however, be 5 with an overheat of 0. I think the issue may have been that the unit was calculated as if it had standard jump jets, but it has improved, so movement heat is halved, making the unit heat efficient. As a result of the change, PV is impacted as well. I've included the short, medium, and PV calculations below for reference.

Code: (Short-Range Damage) [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Short Range Damage Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is efficient                                                         
     30 (Heat Sinks)                                                                              =       30
     3.5 (Movement) + 29 (Weapons) - 4 (Base)                                       (-)     28.5  =      1.5
                                                                                                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                            =    0.000
     Streak SRM 4                                                                   (+)    0.800  =    0.800
     Medium Pulse Laser          [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    0.847  =    1.647
     Medium Pulse Laser          [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    0.847  =    2.494
     Heavy Large Laser           [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    1.672  =    4.166
                                                                                                           
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                               
     Damage subtotal rounded up to the nearest tenth                                              =      4.2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Short Range Damage Value:                                                                            5

Code: (Medium-Range Damage) [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Medium Range Damage Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is efficient                                                         
     30 (Heat Sinks)                                                                              =       30
     3.5 (Movement) + 29 (Weapons) - 4 (Base)                                       (-)     28.5  =      1.5
                                                                                                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                            =    0.000
     Streak SRM 4                                                                   (+)    0.800  =    0.800
     Medium Pulse Laser          [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    0.847  =    1.647
     Medium Pulse Laser          [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    0.847  =    2.494
     Heavy Large Laser           [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    1.672  =    4.166
                                                                                                           
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                               
     Damage subtotal rounded up to the nearest tenth                                              =      4.2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Medium Range Damage Value:                                                                           5

Code: (Point Value) [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Point Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit's Offensive Value:                                                                                   
     Attack Damage Factor        5 (Short) + 5 (Medium) + 5 (Medium) + 0 (Long)                   =   15.000
     Unit Size Factor            3 (Weight/Size Class) / 2                          (+)    1.500  =   16.500
     Overheat Factor             0 (Overheat)                                       (+)    0.000  =   16.500
     Blanket Offensive Modifier  1 (Base)                                           (*)    1.000  =   16.500
                                                                                                           
  Defensive Interaction Rating:                                                                             
     Armor Factor                7 (Armor) x 2.0 (Non-Vehicle Unit)                               =   14.000
     Structure Factor            4 (Structure) x 1.0 (Other Unit)                   (+)    4.000  =   18.000
     Defense Factor              1 + {[2 (10" Move)] x 0.1}                         (*)    1.200  =   21.600
     Final DIR                   Round to nearest half point                                      =   21.500
                                                                                                           
  Unit's Defensive Value:                                                                                   
     Movement Factor             1.75 (0.25 per 2") + 0.5 (Jump-capable)                          =    2.250
     Final DIR                   Defensive Interaction Rating                       (+)   21.500  =   23.750
                                                                                                           
  Unit's Final Point Value:                                                                                 
     Offensive Value                                                                              =   16.500
     Defensive Value                                                                (+)   23.750  =   40.250
     Agile                       2 (TMM) - 1 x 5 (Medium)                           (+)    5.000  =   45.250
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Point Value:                                                                                        45
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 21 October 2019, 15:49:17
Archangel C-ANG-O (Berith) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/64/archangel-c-ang-o-berith)
Issue: The unit lists an Overheat of 2, but I'm not sure where it's getting that from. The unit overheats only a little (1 point) so the heat-modified damage reduction is small, and should result in an OV of 0. I've included the calculation for med-range damage (which would include OV) as well as PV since this is likewise impacted and should be 54.

Code: (Medium Range Damage) [Select]
==========================================================================================================================
Determine Medium Range Damage Value
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is inefficient                                                                     
     38 (Heat Sinks)                                                                                            =       38
     2 (Movement) + 41 (Weapons) - 4 (Base)                                                       (-)       39  =       -1
                                                                                                                         
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                          =    0.000
     Light PPC w/ Capacitor                                                                       (+)    0.500  =    0.500
     Light PPC w/ Capacitor                                                                       (+)    0.500  =    1.000
     Medium VSP Laser                                                                             (+)    0.648  =    1.648
     Snub-Nose PPC                                                                                (+)    0.650  =    2.298
     Heavy PPC w/ Capacitor                                                                       (+)    1.000  =    3.298
                                                                                                                         
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                                             
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                                      (*)       38  =  125.324
     Divided by the maximum heat output - 4                                                       (/)       39  =    3.213
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                                            =      3.3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Medium Range Damage Value:                                                                                         4

Code: (Point Value) [Select]
==========================================================================================================================
Determine Point Value
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit's Offensive Value:                                                                                                 
     Attack Damage Factor        4 (Short) + 4 (Medium) + 4 (Medium) + 2 (Long)                                 =   14.000
     Unit Size Factor            4 (Weight/Size Class) / 2                                        (+)    2.000  =   16.000
     Overheat Factor             0 (Overheat)                                                     (+)    0.000  =   16.000
     Blanket Offensive Modifier  1 (Base)                                                         (*)    1.000  =   16.000
                                                                                                                         
  Defensive Interaction Rating:                                                                                           
     Armor Factor                10 (Armor) x 2.0 (Non-Vehicle Unit)                                            =   20.000
     Structure Factor            10 (Structure) x 1.0 (Other Unit)                                (+)   10.000  =   30.000
     Defense Factor              1 + {[1 (6" Move)] x 0.1}                                        (*)    1.100  =   33.000
     Final DIR                   Round to nearest half point                                                    =   33.000
                                                                                                                         
  Unit's Defensive Value:                                                                                                 
     Movement Factor             0.75 (0.25 per 2")                                                             =    0.750
     Final DIR                   Defensive Interaction Rating                                     (+)   33.000  =   33.750
                                                                                                                         
  Unit's Final Point Value:                                                                                               
     Offensive Value                                                                                            =   16.000
     Defensive Value                                                                              (+)   33.750  =   49.750
     C3                          49.75 (Subtotal) x 0.05                                          (+)    2.500  =   52.250
     Force Bonus                 [MHQ2] Mobile Headquarters                                       (+)    2.000  =   54.250
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Point Value:                                                                                                      54
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Ask Eklund on 21 October 2019, 18:41:04
Is there a means of using the customize feature on the MUL website with the Squad 5 or Squad 6 Alpha Strike Cards of Battle Armor? It appears to only work with the base Squad 4 cards.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 21 October 2019, 19:15:52
Is there a means of using the customize feature on the MUL website with the Squad 5 or Squad 6 Alpha Strike Cards of Battle Armor? It appears to only work with the base Squad 4 cards.

Unfortunately no. That (along with adding 5 and 6 suit squad to force builder) would definitely useful. But we don't have the people/expertise needed to add features to the MUL at this time.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 21 October 2019, 19:21:29
I guess I should ask, but what takes precedence, the Record Sheet name or the MUL name?

I can't answer for anything outside the MUL.  Above my pay grade.  In general, I'd say MUL, but I'm clearly biased. 
Some things are just because the MUL has standards that don't necessarily apply outside the MUL.  Like putting (Standard) after vehicle variants that don't have anything specifying the common variant.
But if the designation is changed, or something that is clearly changed, not just a different standard, that usually is an intentional change. 
With the usual disclaimer that, with however many thousand entrees, sometimes mistakes creep in.

Dark Age Turning Points Liao had a RA-4 Cattlemaster HerderMech that is exactly the same as the CTL-3R Cattlemaster HerderMech from RS:VA.

I take it since its not in the MUL that its was supposed to be the 3R and thus the RA-4 doesn't exist?

So...

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7152/harvester-ant-kic-3m-agromech-mod

is exactly the same as

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1396/harvester-ant-kic-3-agromech-mg

and

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7153/harvester-ant-kic-3m-b-agromech-mod

is exacly the same as

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1395/harvester-ant-kic-3-agromech-lrm

The most recent is the "MOD" variants from TRVA compared to KLONDIKE. Though the KLONDIKE ones might have more data on the availability (extra extinction stages). Should these continue to be considered separate units as one is Pirates in the IS and technically the other is pirates in the Clan Homeworlds, or should they be combined? If so, what's the correct nomenclature?

I'll need to ping our industrialmech expert, but I vaguely recall that many industrialmechs have different designations that are different models/"manufacturers" in universe but have the same stats.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 21 October 2019, 20:45:50
That is my recollection too. I thought we had added the additional names down in the comments but I guess not.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 22 October 2019, 07:18:21
I can't answer for anything outside the MUL.  Above my pay grade.  In general, I'd say MUL, but I'm clearly biased. 
Some things are just because the MUL has standards that don't necessarily apply outside the MUL.  Like putting (Standard) after vehicle variants that don't have anything specifying the common variant.
But if the designation is changed, or something that is clearly changed, not just a different standard, that usually is an intentional change. 
With the usual disclaimer that, with however many thousand entrees, sometimes mistakes creep in.

A good example is the http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1960/lumberjack-lm4c . On the RS it has "LoggerMech" as part of its name (to be fair, I don't think the TRO entry is, so perhaps its not that simple). The Crosscut does the same I think, but I'd have to check when I have more time.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 23 October 2019, 11:41:38
Archer ARC-2R (Morgan) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5809/archer-arc-2r-morgan)
Issue: The AS card is not available for this unit and should be added. Below is the breakdown for all stats.

Code: [Select]
==============================================================================================================
Determine Unit Type
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ground Units:                  BattleMech                                                       =         BM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Unit Type:                                                                                            BM

==============================================================================================================
Determine Weight/Size Class
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Tonnage:                       70 (greater than or equal to 60 and less than 80)                =          3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Weight/Size Class:                                                                                     3

==============================================================================================================
Convert Movement and Movement Modes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ground Movement:               4 (Walk)                                                         =         8"
     Ground Target Movement Modifier at 8" is 1                                                               
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Movement and Movement Modes:                                                                          8"

==============================================================================================================
Determine Short Range Damage Value
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is inefficient                                                         
     10 (Heat Sinks)                                                                              =         10
     2 (Movement) + 18 (Weapons) - 4 (Base)                                         (-)       16  =         -6
                                                                                                             
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                            =      0.000
     Medium Laser                                                                   (+)    0.500  =      0.500
     Medium Laser                                                                   (+)    0.500  =      1.000
     LRM 20                                                                         (+)    0.600  =      1.600
     LRM 20                                                                         (+)    0.600  =      2.200
                                                                                                             
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                                 
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                        (*)       10  =     22.000
     Divided by the maximum heat output - 4                                         (/)       16  =      1.375
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                              =        1.4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Short Range Damage Value:                                                                              2

==============================================================================================================
Determine Medium Range Damage Value
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is inefficient                                                         
     10 (Heat Sinks)                                                                              =         10
     2 (Movement) + 18 (Weapons) - 4 (Base)                                         (-)       16  =         -6
                                                                                                             
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                            =      0.000
     Medium Laser                                                                   (+)    0.500  =      0.500
     Medium Laser                                                                   (+)    0.500  =      1.000
     LRM 20                                                                         (+)    1.200  =      2.200
     LRM 20                                                                         (+)    1.200  =      3.400
                                                                                                             
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                                 
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                        (*)       10  =     34.000
     Divided by the maximum heat output - 4                                         (/)       16  =      2.125
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                              =        2.2
     Unit receives Overheat (OV) value of 1                                                                   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Medium Range Damage Value:                                                                             3

==============================================================================================================
Determine Long Range Damage Value
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is efficient                                                           
     10 (Heat Sinks)                                                                              =         10
     2 (Movement) + 12 (Weapons) - 4 (Base)                                         (-)       10  =          0
                                                                                                             
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                            =      0.000
     LRM 20                                                                         (+)    1.200  =      1.200
     LRM 20                                                                         (+)    1.200  =      2.400
                                                                                                             
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                                 
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                              =        2.4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Long Range Damage Value:                                                                               3

==============================================================================================================
Convert Armor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Standard:                      208 armor points x 1                                    208.000  =    208.000
     Armor Factor Conversion                                                        (/)       30  =      6.933
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Armor Value:                                                                                           7

==============================================================================================================
Convert Structure
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Engine:                        Inner Sphere Fusion on a 70 ton BattleMech                       =        6.0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Structure Value:                                                                                       6

==============================================================================================================
Determine Special Abilities
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit is equipped with forward facing weapons capable of firing indirectly                       =        IF2
  Unit is equipped with forward facing LRMs                                                       =   LRM1/2/2
  Unit is equipped with rearward facing weapons                                                   =  REAR1/1/-

==============================================================================================================
Determine Point Value
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit's Offensive Value:                                                                                     
     Attack Damage Factor        2 (Short) + 3 (Medium) + 3 (Medium) + 3 (Long)                   =     11.000
     Unit Size Factor            3 (Weight/Size Class) / 2                          (+)    1.500  =     12.500
     Overheat Factor             1 (Overheat)                                       (+)    1.000  =     13.500
     Special Ability Factor      [IF2] 2 (Ability Rating)                           (+)    2.000  =     15.500
     Blanket Offensive Modifier  1 (Base)                                           (*)    1.000  =     15.500
                                                                                                             
  Defensive Interaction Rating:                                                                               
     Armor Factor                7 (Armor) x 2.0 (Non-Vehicle Unit)                               =     14.000
     Structure Factor            6 (Structure) x 1.0 (Other Unit)                   (+)    6.000  =     20.000
     Defense Factor              1 + {[1 (8" Move)] x 0.1}                          (*)    1.100  =     22.000
     Final DIR                   Round to nearest half point                                      =     22.000
                                                                                                             
  Unit's Defensive Value:                                                                                     
     Movement Factor             1 (0.25 per 2")                                                  =      1.000
     Final DIR                   Defensive Interaction Rating                       (+)   22.000  =     23.000
                                                                                                             
  Unit's Final Point Value:                                                                                   
     Offensive Value                                                                              =     15.500
     Defensive Value                                                                (+)   23.000  =     38.500
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Point Value:                                                                                          39
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 23 October 2019, 20:13:50
That one was intentionally not added since it is a stock mech.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 24 October 2019, 11:25:46
I'll need to ping our industrialmech expert, but I vaguely recall that many industrialmechs have different designations that are different models/"manufacturers" in universe but have the same stats.

I was curious, because while the Harvester Ant has separate listings for its TRVA/RSOK sheets, the Buster BC (LRM) and (AC) do not.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 24 October 2019, 20:37:26
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2454/peacemaker-pm6

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7173/peacemaker-pm-6-policemech

As far as I can tell, these are the same unit, with the PM6 based on the incorrect record sheet from JTP: Atreus. It can probably be removed since the PM-6 is there, though I do notice you have different dates and BVs on it, so maybe you know something I don't.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 24 October 2019, 22:14:05
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3714/arbiter-securitymech-arb-001

This actually has two record sheets.

The first is in XTRO Corporations, and the other is in the RS Prototypes (Print).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 28 October 2019, 14:11:34
So..Crosscuts.

I assume that
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6972/crosscut-ed-x2-flamer
is
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/742/crosscut-ed-x2m-forestrymech
Which is also
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7167/crosscut-ed-x2m-loggermech-mod

?

And that

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6973/crosscut-ed-x2-rl
is
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/743/crosscut-ed-x2m2-forestrymech
?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 30 October 2019, 12:17:23
Archer ARC-6W (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/83/archer-arc-6w)
Issue: The unit is missing the ENE ability. It does not contain any explosive components as it replaces all standard missiles with Rocket Launchers, which are not explosive.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 30 October 2019, 12:27:54
Archer ARC-9M (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/88/archer-arc-9m)
Issue: The damage values for this unit are listed as 2/3/4 with an OV of 2. In actuality, these should be 3/4/4 with an OV of 1. I believe the discrepancy is due to the errata with heat modified damage values. This change also impacts the final PV, which should now be 39. For reference, I've included the short and medium (which includes OV) damage value calculations as well as the PV calculation.

Code: (Short Range Damage) [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Short Range Damage Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is inefficient                                                       
     20 (Heat Sinks)                                                                              =       20
     3 (Movement) + 30 (Weapons) - 4 (Base)                                         (-)       29  =       -9
                                                                                                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                            =    0.000
     Light PPC                                                                      (+)    0.375  =    0.375
     Light PPC                                                                      (+)    0.375  =    0.750
     ER Medium Laser                                                                (+)    0.500  =    1.250
     ER Medium Laser                                                                (+)    0.500  =    1.750
     LRM 15 w/ Artemis IV FCS                                                       (+)    0.600  =    2.350
     LRM 15 w/ Artemis IV FCS                                                       (+)    0.600  =    2.950
                                                                                                           
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                               
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                        (*)       20  =   59.000
     Divided by the maximum heat output - 4                                         (/)       29  =    2.034
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                              =      2.1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Short Range Damage Value:                                                                            3

Code: (Medium Range Damage) [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Medium Range Damage Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is inefficient                                                       
     20 (Heat Sinks)                                                                              =       20
     3 (Movement) + 30 (Weapons) - 4 (Base)                                         (-)       29  =       -9
                                                                                                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                            =    0.000
     Light PPC                                                                      (+)    0.500  =    0.500
     Light PPC                                                                      (+)    0.500  =    1.000
     ER Medium Laser                                                                (+)    0.500  =    1.500
     ER Medium Laser                                                                (+)    0.500  =    2.000
     LRM 15 w/ Artemis IV FCS                                                       (+)    1.200  =    3.200
     LRM 15 w/ Artemis IV FCS                                                       (+)    1.200  =    4.400
                                                                                                           
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                               
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                        (*)       20  =   88.000
     Divided by the maximum heat output - 4                                         (/)       29  =    3.034
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                              =      3.1
     Unit receives Overheat (OV) value of 1                                                                 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Medium Range Damage Value:                                                                           4

Code: (Point Value) [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Point Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit's Offensive Value:                                                                                   
     Attack Damage Factor        3 (Short) + 4 (Medium) + 4 (Medium) + 4 (Long)                   =   15.000
     Unit Size Factor            3 (Weight/Size Class) / 2                          (+)    1.500  =   16.500
     Overheat Factor             1 (Overheat)                                       (+)    1.000  =   17.500
     Special Ability Factor      [IF2] 2 (Ability Rating)                           (+)    2.000  =   19.500
     Blanket Offensive Modifier  1 (Base)                                           (*)    1.000  =   19.500
                                                                                                           
  Defensive Interaction Rating:                                                                             
     Armor Factor                6 (Armor) x 2.0 (Non-Vehicle Unit)                               =   12.000
     Structure Factor            4 (Structure) x 1.0 (Other Unit)                   (+)    4.000  =   16.000
     Defense Factor              1 + {[1 (6" Move)] x 0.1}                          (*)    1.100  =   17.600
     Final DIR                   Round to nearest half point                                      =   17.500
                                                                                                           
  Unit's Defensive Value:                                                                                   
     Movement Factor             1.25 (0.25 per 2") + 0.5 (Jump-capable)                          =    1.750
     Final DIR                   Defensive Interaction Rating                       (+)   17.500  =   19.250
                                                                                                           
  Unit's Final Point Value:                                                                                 
     Offensive Value                                                                              =   19.500
     Defensive Value                                                                (+)   19.250  =   38.750
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Point Value:                                                                                        39
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 30 October 2019, 14:02:59
ARC-9M fixed.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 30 October 2019, 14:06:36
Archer ARC-6W (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/83/archer-arc-6w)
Issue: The unit is missing the ENE ability. It does not contain any explosive components as it replaces all standard missiles with Rocket Launchers, which are not explosive.

We do count them as using ammunition, one shot of ammunition.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Insaniac99 on 30 October 2019, 14:53:30
We do count them as using ammunition, one shot of ammunition.

Could you provide some clarification here?  I want to make sure I understand the AS rules, and in the Commander's Edition it says that

Quote from: AS:CE pg.77
ENERGY (ENE) A unit with this ability has little to no ammo to explode, and ignores Ammo Hit critical hits (see Ammo Hit, p. 50).

So since Rocket launchers can't explode, and the ENE ability denotes "little to no ammo to explode, and ignores Ammo Hit" -- why does it not apply here?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 30 October 2019, 15:15:10
Because it's also used for interaction with armor types and reloading in chaos campaign.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Insaniac99 on 30 October 2019, 15:32:23
Because it's also used for interaction with armor types and reloading in chaos campaign.

Thank you for that clarification, should I submit an errata to the ENE ability that it should instead state something along the lines of "This unit does not have ammo based weapons and so ignores Ammo Hits" or something along those lines?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 30 October 2019, 15:43:10
No.
Fluff if fluff, it's giving a reasoning, it doesn't have to cover every possible reasoning, just the main one.
The game effect is that it ignores ammo hit critical hits.  Which it does, always. 
the conversion rules give the specific rules for what qualifies or not, once it has ENE and you're in game, all that matters is that it has ENE (or not).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 30 October 2019, 18:10:25
We do count them as using ammunition, one shot of ammunition.

Thanks. That's good enough for me, though I do still hope that there is some errata in the works that more succinctly defines what is considered explosive. I do remember you said that you weren't looking forward to the errata for ENE. :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 30 October 2019, 18:29:28
Archer ARC-9W (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/89/archer-arc-9w)
Issue: I see two issues here. The first is that it lists IF2 as a special, but I believe this should be IF1 due to heat modification and normal rounding (2.4 [damage] * 24 [heat dissipation] / 42 [heat output - 4] = 1.371; rounded to nearest tenth = 1.4; rounded normally = 1). The other is it is listed with a PV of 50, whereas I calculate it with a PV of 40. So I've no idea where the 10 extra PV is coming from. I've included the long-range damage calculation, since that's where the IF can be determined from, as well as the PV calculation.

Code: (Long Range Damage) [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Long Range Damage Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is inefficient                                                       
     24 (Heat Sinks)                                                                              =       24
     2 (Movement) + 34 (Weapons) + 10 (Void-Signature) - 4 (Base)                   (-)       42  =      -18
                                                                                                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                            =    0.000
     ER Large Laser                                                                 (+)    0.800  =    0.800
     ER Large Laser                                                                 (+)    0.800  =    1.600
     LRM 15 w/ Artemis IV FCS                                                       (+)    1.200  =    2.800
     LRM 15 w/ Artemis IV FCS                                                       (+)    1.200  =    4.000
                                                                                                           
  Determine Overheat Long:                                                                                 
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                        (*)       24  =   96.000
     Divided by the maximum long-range heat output - 4                              (/)       42  =    2.286
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                              =      2.3
     Unit receives the Overheat Long (OVL) special ability                                                 
                                                                                                           
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                               
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                        (*)       24  =   96.000
     Divided by the maximum heat output - 4                                         (/)       42  =    2.286
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                              =      2.3
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Long Range Damage Value:                                                                             3

Code: [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Point Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit's Offensive Value:                                                                                   
     Attack Damage Factor        2 (Short) + 3 (Medium) + 3 (Medium) + 3 (Long)                   =   11.000
     Unit Size Factor            3 (Weight/Size Class) / 2                          (+)    1.500  =   12.500
     Overheat Factor             1 (Overheat)                                       (+)    1.000  =   13.500
     Special Ability Factor      [IF1] 1 (Ability Rating)                           (+)    1.000  =   14.500
     Special Ability Factor      [OVL] 1 (Overheat) x 0.25                          (+)    0.250  =   14.750
     Blanket Offensive Modifier  1 (Base)                                           (*)    1.000  =   14.750
                                                                                                           
  Defensive Interaction Rating:                                                                             
     Armor Factor                6 (Armor) x 2.0 (Non-Vehicle Unit)                               =   12.000
     Structure Factor            3 (Structure) x 1.0 (Other Unit)                   (+)    3.000  =   15.000
     Defense Factor              1 + {[2 (10" Move)] x 0.1}                         (*)    1.200  =   18.000
     Final DIR                   Round to nearest half point                                      =   18.000
                                                                                                           
  Unit's Defensive Value:                                                                                   
     Movement Factor             1.25 (0.25 per 2")                                               =    1.250
     Final DIR                   Defensive Interaction Rating                       (+)   18.000  =   19.250
                                                                                                           
  Unit's Final Point Value:                                                                                 
     Offensive Value                                                                              =   14.750
     Defensive Value                                                                (+)   19.250  =   34.000
     Agile                       2 (TMM) - 1 x 3 (Medium)                           (+)    3.000  =   37.000
     Force Bonus                 [AECM] Angel ECM Suite                             (+)    3.000  =   40.000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Point Value:                                                                                        40
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 01 November 2019, 21:36:45
Arctic Wolf II Prime (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/107/arctic-wolf-ii-prime) and Arctic Wolf II A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/104/arctic-wolf-ii-a)
Issue: The listed Alpha Strike stats for both units are correct, but they are flipped. What is listed for the A belongs to the PRIME, and vice-versa.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Son of Kerenski on 04 November 2019, 00:00:17
About to play an AS game up to the Jihad era and was planning on taking a 9W2 as one of my units.

It's header stat's are as follows

Tonnage
55
Battle Value
1,480
Cost
12,616,819
Rules Level
Standard
Technology
Inner Sphere
Unit Type
BattleMech
Unit Role
Striker
Date Introduced
3084
Era
Jihad
( 3068 - 3085 )

Yet it doesn't seem to be in the Faction availability area for the Jihad as its only in Early Republic onwards.

Is this because of the late introduction? Technically it has 2 years in the Jihad era. Its just a bit confusing...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alexander Knight on 04 November 2019, 02:15:07
The -9W2 is a post-Jihad conversion of a WoB model (which would be the -9W).  The standard conversion was replacing c3i with c3 slave and ECM.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 10 November 2019, 22:24:49
Argus AGS-6F (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5684/argus-ags-6f)
Issue: Structure is listed as 4, but it should be 3 (ASC pg. 98, a 60 ton Inner Sphere light fusion engine gets 3; 65 tons gets 4). Additionally, as a result, the PV is miscalculated as 40 when it should be 39. PV Calculation listed below for reference.

Code: (Point Value) [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Point Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit's Offensive Value:                                                                                   
     Attack Damage Factor        4 (Short) + 4 (Medium) + 4 (Medium) + 0 (Long)                   =   12.000
     Unit Size Factor            3 (Weight/Size Class) / 2                          (+)    1.500  =   13.500
     Overheat Factor             0 (Overheat)                                       (+)    0.000  =   13.500
     Blanket Offensive Modifier  1 (Base)                                           (*)    1.000  =   13.500
                                                                                                           
  Defensive Interaction Rating:                                                                             
     Armor Factor                7 (Armor) x 2.0 (Non-Vehicle Unit)                               =   14.000
     Structure Factor            3 (Structure) x 1.0 (Other Unit)                   (+)    3.000  =   17.000
     Defense Factor              1 + {[2 (10" Move)] x 0.1}                         (*)    1.200  =   20.400
     Final DIR                   Round to nearest half point                                      =   20.500
                                                                                                           
  Unit's Defensive Value:                                                                                   
     Movement Factor             1.25 (0.25 per 2")                                               =    1.250
     Final DIR                   Defensive Interaction Rating                       (+)   20.500  =   21.750
                                                                                                           
  Unit's Final Point Value:                                                                                 
     Offensive Value                                                                              =   13.500
     Defensive Value                                                                (+)   21.750  =   35.250
     Agile                       2 (TMM) - 1 x 4 (Medium)                           (+)    4.000  =   39.250
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Point Value:                                                                                        39
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 November 2019, 08:54:52
Argus AGS-6F fixed. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 November 2019, 09:03:12
Arctic Wolf II Prime (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/107/arctic-wolf-ii-prime) and Arctic Wolf II A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/104/arctic-wolf-ii-a)
Issue: The listed Alpha Strike stats for both units are correct, but they are flipped. What is listed for the A belongs to the PRIME, and vice-versa.

Fixed. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 November 2019, 09:06:26
About to play an AS game up to the Jihad era and was planning on taking a 9W2 as one of my units.

Next time, could you actually mention the full designation instead of just "9W2"? :)

Added DC for Jihad era to WVR-9W2.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 November 2019, 09:14:02
The other is it is listed with a PV of 50, whereas I calculate it with a PV of 40. So I've no idea where the 10 extra PV is coming from.
The MAS special gives a minimum Defense Factor of 3?

IF fixed (and PV adjusted).  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 11 November 2019, 11:53:37
The MAS special gives a minimum Defense Factor of 3?

IF fixed (and PV adjusted).  Thanks.

Ignore my previous response if you read it already. I realized my error in multiplying 3 * 0.1 instead of 0.25. Final PV of 49 is indeed correct!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 11 November 2019, 16:16:07
Assassin ASN-30 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/129/assassin-asn-30)
Issue: The unit is listed as having the FLK0*/0*/0* special. However, it only contains a single LB 5-X AC, which does 0.236 damage (Short) or 0.315 damage (Medium and Long). Rounded up to the nearest tenth and then rounded normally makes each range bracket 0. The FLK special does not indicate damage values between 0 and 0.5 should be listed as 0* (as it does for IF). As such, the unit should not have the FLK special.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 November 2019, 16:25:23
The ASN-30 is correct.  There's no requirement for 1 damage, minimal damage applies to all damage. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 11 November 2019, 17:58:23
The ASN-30 is correct.  There's no requirement for 1 damage, minimal damage applies to all damage.

Thanks. I think the FLK special is the only one that doesn't specifically reference minimal damage or minimum damage. The other specials which do not have a minimum specifically call it out in their descriptions.

REAR states "...rounding normally, with pre-rounded damage values between 0 and 0.5 represented as a Minimal Damage (0*) value." (ASC, pg. 129)
IF states "(If the unit’s Indirect Fire attack value, after heat-modification and before final damage rounding, is greater than 0, but less than 0.5, the unit receives an IF0* special..." (ASC, pg. 125)

All other specials have a minimum damage requirement, but they also state it. So I think with FLK, the way it's written, you're left guessing. Can we add some errata so it is clearly defined, and keep it inline with the other specials? 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 16 November 2019, 15:30:20
Atlas AS7-00 (Jurn) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5564/atlas-as7-00-jurn)
Issue: The long-range damage should be 4; not 3 as listed (conversion breakdown below). Additionally, the unit does not contain any equipment that adds to the MHQ ability, so it shouldn't have the MHQ1 it currently has. The PV value is correct.

Code: (Long Range Damage) [Select]
====================================================================================================================================
Determine Long Range Damage Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is efficient                                                                                 
     32 (Heat Sinks)                                                                                                      =       32
     2 (Movement) + 24 (Weapons) - 4 (Base)                                                                 (-)       22  =       10
                                                                                                                                   
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                                    =    0.000
     Light PPC                                                                                              (+)    0.500  =    0.500
     Light PPC                                                                                              (+)    0.500  =    1.000
     Hyper-Velocity AC/10                                                                                   (+)    1.000  =    2.000
     Thunderbolt 15              [Insufficient Ammo]                                                        (+)    1.125  =    3.125
                                                                                                                                   
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                                                       
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                                                      =      3.2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Long Range Damage Value:                                                                                                     4
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 16 November 2019, 15:38:45
Atlas AS7-A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7433/atlas-as7-a)
Issue: The short range damage should be 4; not the 5 that's listed. It's right on that line because of heat between being 4 and 5, so perhaps the initial calculations were off. This also impacted the PV as it lowers it to 52. I've included both conversion breakdowns below for reference.

Code: (Short Range Damage) [Select]
=====================================================================================================================================
Determine Short Range Damage Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is inefficient                                                                                 
     20 (Heat Sinks)                                                                                                      =        20
     2 (Movement) + 31 (Weapons) - 4 (Base)                                                                 (-)       29  =        -9
                                                                                                                                     
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                                    =     0.000
     LRM 10                                                                                                 (+)    0.300  =     0.300
     Autocannon/5                                                                                           (+)    0.375  =     0.675
     Medium Laser                                                                                           (+)    0.500  =     1.175
     Medium Laser                                                                                           (+)    0.500  =     1.675
     SRM 6                                                                                                  (+)    0.800  =     2.475
     SRM 6                                                                                                  (+)    0.800  =     3.275
     SRM 6                                                                                                  (+)    0.800  =     4.075
     SRM 6                                                                                                  (+)    0.800  =     4.875
     SRM 6                                                                                                  (+)    0.800  =     5.675
                                                                                                                                     
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                                                       
     Damage subtotal multipled by the total heat dissipation                                                (*)       20  =   113.500
     Divided by the maximum heat output - 4                                                                 (/)       29  =     3.914
     Rounded up to the nearest tenth                                                                                      =       4.0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Short Range Damage Value:                                                                                                     4


Code: (Point Value) [Select]
=====================================================================================================================================
Determine Point Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit's Offensive Value:                                                                                                           
     Attack Damage Factor        4 (Short) + 5 (Medium) + 5 (Medium) + 2 (Long)                                           =    16.000
     Unit Size Factor            4 (Weight/Size Class) / 2                                                  (+)    2.000  =    18.000
     Overheat Factor             1 (Base OV) + 0.5 (0.5 per OV > 1)                                         (+)    1.500  =    19.500
     Special Ability Factor      [IF1] 1 (Ability Rating)                                                   (+)    1.000  =    20.500
     Blanket Offensive Modifier  1 (Base)                                                                   (*)    1.000  =    20.500
                                                                                                                                     
  Defensive Interaction Rating:                                                                                                     
     Armor Factor                10 (Armor) x 2.0 (Non-Vehicle Unit)                                                      =    20.000
     Structure Factor            8 (Structure) x 1.0 (Other Unit)                                           (+)    8.000  =    28.000
     Defense Factor              1 + {[1 (6" Move)] x 0.1}                                                  (*)    1.100  =    30.800
     Final DIR                   Round to nearest half point                                                              =    31.000
                                                                                                                                     
  Unit's Defensive Value:                                                                                                           
     Movement Factor             0.75 (0.25 per 2")                                                                       =     0.750
     Final DIR                   Defensive Interaction Rating                                               (+)   31.000  =    31.750
                                                                                                                                     
  Unit's Final Point Value:                                                                                                         
     Offensive Value                                                                                                      =    20.500
     Defensive Value                                                                                        (+)   31.750  =    52.250
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Point Value:                                                                                                                 52
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 16 November 2019, 15:51:44
Regarding the Atlas AS7-00 (Jurn), I happened across another MHQ1 on a different Atlas where I didn't think it should be. I noticed that Atlas also had a Command Console so figured I'd search the forums, and found THIS (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=6620.msg982360#msg982360) post from 2014. Looks like there was a question around it, and perhaps the ultimate decision should be that the Command Console indeed does add to the MHQ ability. But this was never added to the errata thread or subsequent updates. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 22 November 2019, 22:30:54
Re-posting as this was from over a month ago without a response, and want to make sure it wasn't missed or forgotten about.

Arbalest 2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/60/arbalest-2)
Issue: Movement is listed as 10" but it should be 12" since the unit is equipped with MASC. Subsequently the PV is 24 due to the speed increase. Calculations below.

Code: (Movement Calculation) [Select]
=======================================================================================================
Convert Movement and Movement Modes
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ground Movement:               5 (Walk)                                                     =     10"
     Equipped with MASC                                                          (*)    1.25  =     12"
     Ground Target Movement Modifier at 12" is 2                                                       
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Movement and Movement Modes:                                                                  12"

Code: (Point Value Calculation) [Select]
=======================================================================================================
Determine Point Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit's Offensive Value:                                                                             
     Attack Damage Factor        2 (Short) + 2 (Medium) + 2 (Medium) + 1 (Long)               =   7.000
     Unit Size Factor            1 (Weight/Size Class) / 2                       (+)   0.500  =   7.500
     Overheat Factor             0 (Overheat)                                    (+)   0.000  =   7.500
     Special Ability Factor      [IF1] 1 (Ability Rating)                        (+)   1.000  =   8.500
     Blanket Offensive Modifier  1 (Base)                                        (*)   1.000  =   8.500
                                                                                                       
  Defensive Interaction Rating:                                                                       
     Armor Factor                3 (Armor) x 2.0 (Non-Vehicle Unit)                           =   6.000
     Structure Factor            2 (Structure) x 1.0 (Other Unit)                (+)   2.000  =   8.000
     Defense Factor              1 + {[2 (12" Move)] x 0.1}                      (*)   1.200  =   9.600
     Final DIR                   Round to nearest half point                                  =   9.500
                                                                                                       
  Unit's Defensive Value:                                                                             
     Movement Factor             1.5 (0.25 per 2")                                            =   1.500
     Final DIR                   Defensive Interaction Rating                    (+)   9.500  =  11.000
                                                                                                       
  Unit's Final Point Value:                                                                           
     Offensive Value                                                                          =   8.500
     Defensive Value                                                             (+)  11.000  =  19.500
     Agile                       2 (TMM) - 1 x 2 (Medium)                        (+)   2.000  =  21.500
     Force Bonus                 [ECM] Electronic Countermeasures                (+)   2.000  =  23.500
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Point Value:                                                                                   24
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 22 November 2019, 22:32:14
Another one from over a month ago with no response, so re-posting.

Arcas 3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5686/arcas-3)
Issue: Both the short-range damage and medium-range damage is listed as 4 with an overheat of 1. They should both, however, be 5 with an overheat of 0. I think the issue may have been that the unit was calculated as if it had standard jump jets, but it has improved, so movement heat is halved, making the unit heat efficient. As a result of the change, PV is impacted as well. I've included the short, medium, and PV calculations below for reference.

Code: (Short-Range Damage) [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Short Range Damage Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is efficient                                                         
     30 (Heat Sinks)                                                                              =       30
     3.5 (Movement) + 29 (Weapons) - 4 (Base)                                       (-)     28.5  =      1.5
                                                                                                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                            =    0.000
     Streak SRM 4                                                                   (+)    0.800  =    0.800
     Medium Pulse Laser          [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    0.847  =    1.647
     Medium Pulse Laser          [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    0.847  =    2.494
     Heavy Large Laser           [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    1.672  =    4.166
                                                                                                           
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                               
     Damage subtotal rounded up to the nearest tenth                                              =      4.2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Short Range Damage Value:                                                                            5

Code: (Medium-Range Damage) [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Medium Range Damage Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is efficient                                                         
     30 (Heat Sinks)                                                                              =       30
     3.5 (Movement) + 29 (Weapons) - 4 (Base)                                       (-)     28.5  =      1.5
                                                                                                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                            =    0.000
     Streak SRM 4                                                                   (+)    0.800  =    0.800
     Medium Pulse Laser          [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    0.847  =    1.647
     Medium Pulse Laser          [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    0.847  =    2.494
     Heavy Large Laser           [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    1.672  =    4.166
                                                                                                           
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                               
     Damage subtotal rounded up to the nearest tenth                                              =      4.2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Medium Range Damage Value:                                                                           5

Code: (Point Value) [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Point Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit's Offensive Value:                                                                                   
     Attack Damage Factor        5 (Short) + 5 (Medium) + 5 (Medium) + 0 (Long)                   =   15.000
     Unit Size Factor            3 (Weight/Size Class) / 2                          (+)    1.500  =   16.500
     Overheat Factor             0 (Overheat)                                       (+)    0.000  =   16.500
     Blanket Offensive Modifier  1 (Base)                                           (*)    1.000  =   16.500
                                                                                                           
  Defensive Interaction Rating:                                                                             
     Armor Factor                7 (Armor) x 2.0 (Non-Vehicle Unit)                               =   14.000
     Structure Factor            4 (Structure) x 1.0 (Other Unit)                   (+)    4.000  =   18.000
     Defense Factor              1 + {[2 (10" Move)] x 0.1}                         (*)    1.200  =   21.600
     Final DIR                   Round to nearest half point                                      =   21.500
                                                                                                           
  Unit's Defensive Value:                                                                                   
     Movement Factor             1.75 (0.25 per 2") + 0.5 (Jump-capable)                          =    2.250
     Final DIR                   Defensive Interaction Rating                       (+)   21.500  =   23.750
                                                                                                           
  Unit's Final Point Value:                                                                                 
     Offensive Value                                                                              =   16.500
     Defensive Value                                                                (+)   23.750  =   40.250
     Agile                       2 (TMM) - 1 x 5 (Medium)                           (+)    5.000  =   45.250
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Point Value:                                                                                        45
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 22 November 2019, 22:41:23
Thanks for all the updates and confirmations! Two final questions (I hope) on the Taser.

1) It's currently not listed in the 'ALPHA STRIKE WEAPON CONVERSION TABLE', so am assuming Errata would need to add the 0.1 at short range?
2) The part that makes it confusing (and why I initially thought it was intentionally left out for damage purposes) is that ASCE p.90 states "All Taser attacks are resolved separately,..." This led me to believe that the ability itself was what the taser granted, and thus why no damage was allocated for it. Does it get the Taser damage AND the special attack?

Bringing this back up again as it's been over a month, as more clarification/consideration is needed. The way everything is in ASC currently is that the taser does no damage. The MTAS special even states "The Taser attack itself delivers no damage,..." So I believe there are really two options here:

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 22 November 2019, 22:58:37
The answer is 2.  I’m buried in class work right now, errata will have to wait.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 23 November 2019, 19:52:01
The answer is 2.  I’m buried in class work right now, errata will have to wait.

You mean you don't have unlimited volunteer hours to answer forum questions?!?! :D

Just kidding. Thanks for the quick answer on the taser. Now go get good grades!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Andrew_Cluetain on 08 December 2019, 21:32:47
From a completely random look, I found a minor MUL error on http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1283/great-wyrm-aemelia
The mech in question is a 45 toner, but is listed as SZ:1, probably an old typo but should be SZ: 2.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Mendrugo on 01 January 2020, 01:28:55
It's nice that the MUL lists which sourcebooks the units may be found in, but the links point to the defunct BattleCorps site.  Any chance of getting the links reset to the Catalyst store entries?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Valkerie on 08 January 2020, 14:25:00
Not a big issue, but noticed the new artwork for the Timber Wolf does not appear on the Prime version.  Seems to be correct on all the other variants.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 January 2020, 15:12:47
the prime is still the art from 3050U where the others have the plogafied version
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Valkerie on 08 January 2020, 23:44:30
That was what I was trying to say.  Apologies for not making that clear. :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 January 2020, 00:03:01
nope, you did. i read it wrong on my phone  :))
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 09 January 2020, 21:03:38
Is there any particular reason the MUL Eras don't match up with the eras and sub eras presented in IO on page 14? For instance, the MUL has the late succession Wars split into Lostech and Renaissance, while IO just has Early and Late, and the MUL has the Dark Ages split into Early Republic, Late Republic, Dage Ages, while IO has it split into two (Republic Era and Late Dark Ages)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 09 January 2020, 22:27:00
The MUL has divided the IO eras into sub eras to have more granularity.  Individual years was too much work for little use, while the eras weren’t enough information.  So we spit the eras into sub eras.  They still match up, there shouldn’t be a sub era that belongs to multiple eras.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Insaniac99 on 10 January 2020, 11:01:22
The MUL has divided the IO eras into sub eras to have more granularity.  Individual years was too much work for little use, while the eras weren’t enough information.  So we spit the eras into sub eras.  They still match up, there shouldn’t be a sub era that belongs to multiple eras.

Is one list more official than the other, or more correct?  In the process of Updating SSW we noticed it is missing eras and there seems to be no consistency in the direction of the "correct" era listing. For example:

  Megamek has been told to use one set to support the canon record sheets (Age of War, Star League, Succession Wars, Clan Invasion, Civil War, Jihad, Dark Age).

 The Master Unit List uses another (Age of War, Star League, Early Succession War, Late Succession War - LosTech, Late Succession War - Renaissance, Clan Invasion, Civil War, Jihad, Early Republic, Late Republic, Dark Ages)

And Interstellar Operations uses a third (Age of War, Star League, Early Succession Wars, Late Succession Wars, Clan Invasion, Civil War, Jihad, The Republic Age, Late Dark Ages)

Now, even ignoring MegaMek, while there is no overlap in the eras for MUL and IO, the naming convention between them changes a little (e.g. "Early/Late Republic" vs "The Republic Age"; "Dark Ages" vs "Late Dark Ages"; singular vs plural on "Succession War") and, to throw another monkey wrench in, the beginning of The Age of War and end of the Dark age is different by a few hundred years (2005 in MUL vs 2300 in IO and 3999 in MUL vs 3150 in IO respectively)

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 10 January 2020, 12:18:03
I can't answer for anything but the MUL.

3999 versus 3150 is just us (the MUL) saying we don't know the future.  3999 is a random number.  3150 is just IO saying it's not currently saying anyting past 3150. Neither are actually saying anything about post 3150.

Succession Wars versus Succession War, probably should be Wars, as it wasn't just one.  I don't care enough to change it at this time.  It will go on the list to get to someday.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 20 January 2020, 15:25:30
a units mounting ERPPCs with an intro date before 2751:

Pueblo (2673) http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6784/pueblo-2673
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 27 January 2020, 03:25:25
Jaguar:

Has availability rating for Early Republic Era, mech was not available until 3121 (Late Republic Era)

Jaguar 2:

Has availability rating for Early Republic Era, mech was not available until 3123 (Late Republic Era)

Early Republic Era availability should be removed from both mechs.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Valkerie on 01 February 2020, 10:43:09
Defiance DFN-3S is missing it's image.  DFN-3C and DFN-3T have their images.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jdk201 on 16 February 2020, 13:18:54
I want to create cards for a hex based game instead of inches, but when i try to modify the movement value it changes the TMM and there is no way to override it. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: FrozenIceman on 17 February 2020, 10:42:17
Heavy Tracked APC (Standard) availability seems to be in error (as well as LRM, SRM, MG variants).

Rasalhague Dominion and Raven Alliance receive the following in the Early Republic Era

1.  Armored Personnel Carrier (Tracked) (Only for RD)
2.  Heavy Wheeled APC
3.  Heavy Hover APC

Heavy Tracked APC appears missing from the list.

Also Armored Personnel Carrier (Wheeled) was not tagged in Late Republic and Dark Age Era.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 21 February 2020, 18:20:06
The Quirinus [MG]'s intro date is 3138 for some reason. Since the MG is in modular mount, and the other Quirinus options date from 3093, the MG variant probably should have same introduction date.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6646/quirinus-battle-armor-mg
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Onion2112 on 26 February 2020, 08:53:53
Should the TR-1-A Toro have movement 8” (MP4) as per XTRO:Prim IV?

Also the Sovetskii Soyuz (2742) Heavy Cruiser should be available to the Draconis Combine in the early Succession Wars era (as per page 42 Hist:1SW the DCS Sahand).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 07 March 2020, 12:45:10
Do the mobile version and the desktop site round thing differently?  The Tenshi A on mobile is 2011 BV at 4/4, but on desktop it's 2012.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Thunder on 07 March 2020, 15:14:31
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7386/padilla-anti-missile-tank-standard (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7386/padilla-anti-missile-tank-standard)

the RAMS ability should be included under the TUR ability as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 March 2020, 21:36:53
cross-posting here because it's applicable in both places

In Dossiers: Bounty Hunter
Pg 9: Alexander Romanov's Shadow Hawk is referred to as the SHD-2H (Romanov)
Pg 24: The record sheet refers to the same mech as the SHD-5H Sandy

The MUL designates it the SHD-5D (Sandy)

Which is correct?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Thunder on 16 March 2020, 15:50:34
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/609/clan-heavy-jump-infantry-heavy-infantry-point-91st-mechanized-assault-epsilon-galaxy (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/609/clan-heavy-jump-infantry-heavy-infantry-point-91st-mechanized-assault-epsilon-galaxy)

BV is wrong.  Should be 327.  Using Megameklab 47.1 for the calculations.

This has implications for TRO 3085 errata as well.

And of course there is always the worry that there is systemic BV inaccuracies in MUL infantry now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 23 March 2020, 08:35:21
some FWL units (like the royal crab) have separate availability for all six of the sub-states, but not the FWL main list. this causes those units to not show up in a search unless accounting for substates. perhaps in those cases either general FWL availability might be added or replace the MiniMarik partitions altogether.

i'll be happy to make a list if it's something you'll (eventually) act on
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 23 March 2020, 10:31:37
Can you give some examples and which eras? The subfactions should be completely independent of FWL in the eras that they exist.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 23 March 2020, 13:54:19
Can you give some examples and which eras? The subfactions should be completely independent of FWL in the eras that they exist.

my brain had the reunification happening about a decade earlier (~3130) than it actually was in 3139, which changes the question - mainly, how do you deal with added availability in the middle of an era?

Take the royal Crab for example http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/717/crab-crb-27b. It's listed as available to all six former FWL constituencies during the Dark Age years. In 3139/40, the nuFWL theoretically gains access via the amalgamation of the reformed member state militaries, but is not listed.

On the other hand, there are a small number of units that suddenly pop up as pan-FWL during this time (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&Factions=30&AvailableEras=16).

I'm not advocating a specific position here, I'm really just being nosy about the internal logic.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 26 March 2020, 16:39:23
The Sarath-A has wrong picture, using the Sarath-B's pic.
A's pic is available though:
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/mul-images/BattleMechs/3145/Sarath-A.jpg

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6507/sarath-srth-1oa
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 27 March 2020, 16:43:11
I don't think we considered the nuFWL at all when we add that faction data. The couple I checked were all IS General. I could be wrong on that as it has been many years since I worked on that portion.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 27 March 2020, 17:12:38
The Phoenix Hawk L, for example, has DA availability for the FWL (as opposed to some of the sub factions in the late republic).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 31 March 2020, 18:41:54
The Malice's TRO entry says it (presumably MAL-XT) entered service just before the Blackout, which happened in 3132, but MUL gives its introdate as 3134. Based on TRO, it probably should be 3132 or 3131.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6683/malice-mal-xt
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hellraiser on 01 April 2020, 22:34:42
The Wolverine-II is listed as an Intro Date of 2770.

But it was in use in the Periphery with General Kerensky during the New Vandenberg uprising in 2765.

For that matter the Atlas-II that was also in use has 2765 as its intro year.

It seems like both should be a bit earlier to make it out to a Periphery warehouse by 2765 (or earlier)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 03 April 2020, 23:40:31
-Kruger Combat Car (original):
Early and Late Republic availability listed as Extinct and Calderon Protectorate, Federated Suns, Filtvelt Coalition and The Taurian Concordant.
It was extinct before 3091 but now the extinct tag is in error.
-Strix Stealth VTOL
This VTOL is listed as listed RotS only availability and this is correct according to the original write up from XTRO:Republic vol 1 However The newer write up
in TRO 3150 changes things "Prior to the Blackout, the Republic maintained
strict export controls on the Strix, with
only the Federated Suns permitted by treaty
to purchase the vehicle. Post-crash, however,
this exclusivity was shattered as the RAF collapsed.
With enemies both internal and external
snatching up RAF equipment, availability of the
Strix rapidly spread."
So it seems the FS should get added to the early republic era and even more factions (DC/CC/Clan Wolf for example) to the late republic era.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 04 April 2020, 09:28:43
Cave Lion:
According to TRO:3150 page 170 Dark Age Availability should include mercenaries, FWL (Clan Protectorate) and perhaps RotS.
"Their biggest customers
were mid-sized mercenary units and
Nova Cat militia clusters within the Republic."
"The Spirit Cats of the Clan
Protectorate field the largest concentration of
these ‘Mechs"
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 09 April 2020, 12:09:41
The Arctic Wolf II Prime is listed as available for Sea Foxes and Lyran Commonwealth from Late Republic onward. This does not apply to its configurations. I'd assume all configs should be available to Sea Foxes and Lyran Commonwealth, if the 'Mech is even intended to be available to those two factions.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/107/arctic-wolf-ii-prime
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 09 April 2020, 12:59:21
Another availability weirdness. The Akuma 2XC is listed as available to the Republic of the Sphere, but the RotS isn't big on boosted C3 systems. This is also the sole Akuma available to the RotS. I'd say the AKU-2X would be a better fit for the RotS, instead or in addition to the 2XC.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/22/akuma-aku-2xc
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 09 April 2020, 19:33:20
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6865/prefect-prf-3r

The Prefect 3R seems to have too early introductory date, since the RHS is developed in 3122.
Indeed, RS3145NTNU notes that it is a "very recent overhaul", and further notes the Lament (introduced in 3126) as an inspiration.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 11 April 2020, 10:16:02
This is just a heads up, and if you need more info, I can provide it when I'm a bit more awake, but as far as I'm aware, I don't think any of the designs from Handbook House Kurita have made it into the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: timepanini on 11 April 2020, 23:02:46
Hello there, is there an API to query units programmatically rather than through the web interface? I noticed that there is a force builder for Alpha Strike, but not for classic battle tech and I would like to build one that is web based, rather than built in Java like SSW and MM. Sorry if this has already been answered, there are 37 pages of replies to this thread.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hammer on 16 April 2020, 21:07:03
The Tatsu MIK-OF  (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6811/tatsu-mik-of) is showing an Intro date of 3100. It mounts Large Re-engineered lasers which both the Tech tables in RS NTNU pg 10, and IO pg 44) show a development date of Approx 3120. Re-Engineered lasers wouldn't hit Standard tech until 3130. 

A couple of options - Have the intro date at 3120 and the unit would become Advanced (per NTNU table) or the date at 3130 and leave it at Standard. 

Given the age of the original Tatsu platform I think the advanced option seems to make the most sense. 

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 17 April 2020, 09:28:49
forgive me if these are Working As Intended™,  but i've noticed some minor discrepancies

BattleMaster BLR-1G-DC
Debut date: 2633
Filters Under: Early Succession Wars (2781-2900)
Should Filter Under: Star League (2571-2780)
Solution: Change the production era to Star League or the intro date to 2781 or later

Thunderbolt TDR-5D
Debut date: 2821
Filters Under: Late Succession Wars - LosTech (2901-3019)
Should Filter Under: Early Succession Wars (2781-2900)
Solution: Change the production era to Early Succession Wars or the intro date to 2901 or later

Wolverine WVR-6D
Debut date: 2834
Filters Under: Late Succession Wars - LosTech (2901-3019)
Should Filter Under: Early Succession Wars (2781-2900)
Solution: Change the production era to Early Succession Wars or the intro date to 2901 or later

Talon TLN-5Z
Debut date: 3062
Filters Under: Clan Invasion (3049-3061)
Should Filter Under: Civil War (3062-3067)
Solution: Change the production era to Civil War or intro date to before 3062

Argus AGS-4D
Debut date: 3062
Filters Under: Clan Invasion (3049-3061)
Should Filter Under: Civil War (3062-3067)
Solution: Change the production era to Civil War or intro date to before 3062

Blade BLD-XR
Debut date: 3125
Filters Under: Early Republic (3086-3100)
Should Filter Under: Late Republic (3101-3130)
Solution: Change the production era to Late Republic or intro date to before 3101

War Dog WR-DG-01
Debut Date: None
Filters Under: Early Republic (3086-3100)
Should Filter Under: Clan Invasion (3049-3061)?
Solution: I imagine this was the prototype War Dog so its intro date should be before the intro date for the -02FC in 3052

Thor II B
Debut Date: 3093
Filters Under: Late Republic (3101-3130)
Should Filter Under: Early Republic (3086-3100)
Solution: Change the production era to Early Republic or the intro date to after 3100

Blackjack BJ-2r
Debut Date: 3131
Filters Under: Late Republic (3101-3130)
Should Filter Under: Dark Ages (3131-3999)
Solution: Change the production era to Dark Ages  or the intro date to before 3131

Nobori-nin (Huntsman) F
Debut Date: 3132
Filters Under: Late Republic (3101-3130)
Should Filter Under: Dark Ages (3131-3999)
Solution: Change the production era to Dark Ages  or the intro date to before 3131

Titan TI-1Ar
Debut Date: 3132
Filters Under: Late Republic (3101-3130)
Should Filter Under: Dark Ages (3131-3999)
Solution: Change the production era to Dark Ages  or the intro date to before 3131
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 18 April 2020, 20:01:05
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7296/enforcer-iii-enf-7d
The Enforcer III 7D is specifically noted as being widely used by the Republic of the Sphere in XTRO Republic I (pg 7), but the Master Unit List availability lists only the Federated Suns.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starbuck on 25 April 2020, 07:13:53
Arbalest 2

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/60/arbalest-2

has MASC (see TRO 3085 and Errata thread for RS 3085).
Move should therefore be 12"
(5/8 movement plus MASC is 6.25, rounded to 6, converted to 12")
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 29 April 2020, 12:47:31
The Fire Scorpion currently has an introductory date of 2834.
As per Interstellar Ops page 40, Clan A-Pods have a prototype date of 2845 and a production date of 2850.

Either the Fire Scorpion should have a later introductory date, or the cA-Pods need to have their production date pushed earlier.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 29 April 2020, 12:51:58
Marauder II MAD-6S (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7331/marauder-ii-mad-6s) and Inquisitor II ITW-200 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7332/inquisitor-ii-itw-200) are both lacking availability data.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 30 April 2020, 22:07:57
This could be a bit of a tedious request here, but currently all Heavy Battle Armor is listed as weighing 2 tons.

Heavy BA should weight 1.5 tons, and listing them as such would allow players to differentiate between the two on the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 30 April 2020, 22:53:50
This could be a bit of a tedious request here, but currently all Heavy Battle Armor is listed as weighing 2 tons.

Heavy BA should weight 1.5 tons, and listing them as such would allow players to differentiate between the two on the MUL.

Unfortunately that's a technical issue rather than a data issue.  It is 1.5 tons in the database, but the website is set to only show 0 decimal places and rounds up.  I don't know when that will be able to be fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 01 May 2020, 21:38:26
Any thoughts of putting in an "OmniVehicle" subtype? There's an OmniMech and OmniFighter subtype.

It's possible to filter it now if you put 'omni" in the AlphaStrike abilities, but its certainly not userfriendly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 07 May 2020, 13:25:19
i noticed a lot of the TRO 3075 Age of War mechs (Toro, Jackrabbit, Icarus II, etc) have a gap in availability status for the Late Succession Wars eras.

some seem like no brainers to intuit like the Toro, which was extinct both in the early succession wars and clan invasion (a resurrection during the late succession wars seems unlikely). Others like the Icarus II or Koschei survived into the early succession wars. are those also extinct by ~2900 or is it possible enough of some remained intact into the 31st century?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 07 May 2020, 17:09:11
Those eras were on my todo list before I had to focus on RL but we really needed Golden Age TRO to come out so we could handle the clan side at the same time.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 07 May 2020, 19:05:54
Ah sure that makes sense
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 08 May 2020, 16:44:52
Black Hawk U uses the old artwork (unlike all other configurations)

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/344/black-hawk-nova-u
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 May 2020, 10:18:02
Is the disappearance of G1 clan omnis from the IS General list (and from IS armies in general) after the jihad an intentional move or a case or data not yet entered?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 10 May 2020, 19:35:05
The Crusader -1R, -2R, -3D, -3K, -3L, -3R (Crael), -4BR, -4D, -4K, and -4L all use the art for the CRD-8L variant instead of the Unseen silhouette.

The Goliath -6M and -6H variants should have their art swapped; the -6M should have the TRO art, while the -6H should have the Unseen silhouette.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Wotan on 11 May 2020, 07:28:10
The Bug-Eye is listed in the MUL as having 61,000t. It only should have 6,100t.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 11 May 2020, 07:53:00
here's a weird one. under Units i searched for mechs that debuted between 2571-2780. when sorting by intro date, the SWD-2 Swordsman showed up at the top. its intro date is 2482. at the other end, the Highlander HGN-732 (Jorgensson) was at the end of the list with an out-of-range intro of  2829.

(http://puu.sh/FJ0xO/f1d3eebb4f.png)

(http://puu.sh/FJ0yh/d12881e474.png)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 11 May 2020, 09:24:44
The Longbow LGB-14C and LGB-14C2 should share the same art; at the moment, the LGB-14C has the unseen silhouette, while the -14C2 has the art from TRO:3085.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 11 May 2020, 09:33:16
The Marauder MAD-6L currently has no art; I would recommend reusing the art from the MAD-5L.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 11 May 2020, 09:44:12
For the Marauder IIC:
-The Marauder IIC (Standard) and Marauder IIC 8 should both have the Unseen Silhouette.
-The Marauder IIC 3 is missing its art from the variant art section of TRO: Project Phoenix.
-The Marauder IIC 7 is missing its art from TRO:3085.

The Phoenix Hawk IIC 6 and Phoenix Hawk IIC 8 are both lacking art; I'd recommend reusing the Phoenix Hawk IIC 7 art in both cases.

The Rifleman RFL-6D and Rifleman RFL-9T are both lacking art; I'd recommend reusing the Rifleman RFL-6X art for the RFL-6D, and the new Rifleman redesign art for the RFL-9T.

The Stinger STG-5G, STG-5M, STG-5T, and STG-5Gb are all missing art. They should all use the new Stinger redesigned art.

The Valkyrie VLK-QD4 is missing art; I'd recommend using the TRO:3085 VLK-QT2 art.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 11 May 2020, 17:07:28
The Wolverine WVR-9M still uses the unseen silhouette, it should be changed for the new Wolverine reimagined art.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 12 May 2020, 01:13:27
clan invasion is listed as starting in 3050 but all mechs with a 3049 intro date are grouped with the clan invasion. there are 56 so it's not an insignificant number

... though it may be an insignificant problem

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 12 May 2020, 04:36:34
That is intentional.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 12 May 2020, 08:12:14
built in '49 but not in significant enough numbers to matter until the clans show up?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 12 May 2020, 08:46:52
Acknowledging that events are split between before and after the clans invade, but production of what we consider clan invasion era units actually started a little earlier.
Ie, we bent the rules for usability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 May 2020, 10:18:59
question about the Unique faction tag

what's the difference between something like this - just unique
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/40/annihilator-anh-2ax

unique with a faction
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1696/jenner-jr7-k-grace

unique with multiple factions
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5562/anubis-abs-3mc
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 15 May 2020, 10:46:45
Last one is just wrong.  Difference in first two was likely a change in outlook.  The strict definition of faction availability means the faction in general should have it (multiple of the unit in multiple different commands).  A unique couldn’t possibly qualify for that (unique being not multiple).
Then we decided, like intro dates versus prototype dates for units that were only ever prototypes, that uniques could have an exception.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 17 May 2020, 12:37:53
the clan burrock emblem graphic link is broken
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ArchonDan on 18 May 2020, 10:58:39
Hello,

Has there been any discussion of creating a REST api for accessing the data of the MUL? It contains a vast sea of knowledge and getting at and understanding the data can be challenging for new and returning people. Not that a REST api would help them immediately but it would allow others a more low level access to the data for analysis and force creation apps. As a proof of concept I've created a simple REST api to access all the unit data from Megamek, and it got me thinking about accessing the MUL. I know it's not a simple wave of the magic wand for it to happen and was interested in finding out if there had been thoughts on something like this?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 May 2020, 12:22:12
We have thought about it and for multiple reasons we can’t do it.  The MUL is what it is now.  The only additions would be adding or correcting data only. No functionality changes.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ArchonDan on 18 May 2020, 12:27:13
Got it! Thank you.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 19 May 2020, 12:58:19
A general question. Many designs don't have Late Republic and Dark Age availability listed. Most TRO 3050 and Project Phoenix 3050 era variants for example, are missing this data.
Should we report it or is it a known issue?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 19 May 2020, 13:53:37
it's a thing for about 1100 mechs so i doubt it's an oversight. here's my list of mechs missing LR and DA availability. you can see it's a mix of 2750/3025/3050 machines plus jihad and before-era custom jobs along with exclusively HW clan stuff (including society shenanigans)

Code: [Select]
BattleMaster BLR-1Gbc
Albatross ALB-5W (Dantalion)
Alfar AL-A1
Alfar AL-D1 "Dokkalfar"
Annihilator ANH-1A
Annihilator ANH-1G
Annihilator ANH-1X
Annihilator ANH-2A
Annihilator ANH-2AX
Annihilator ANH-3A
Annihilator ANH-4A
Annihilator C
Annihilator C "Gausszilla"
Annihilator C 2
Anubis ABS-3MC
Archangel C-ANG-O (Berith)
Archer ARC-1A
Archer ARC-2K
Archer ARC-2R
Archer ARC-2R (Morgan)
Archer ARC-2R (Rubinsky)
Archer ARC-2Rb
Archer ARC-2S
Archer ARC-2W
Archer ARC-4M
Archer ARC-5R
Archer ARC-5S
Archer ARC-5W
Archer ARC-7S
Archer ARC-9K
Assassin "Servitor"
Assassin ASN-101
Assassin ASN-21
Assassin ASN-23
Assassin ASN-30
Assassin ASN-30 (Alice)
Assassin ASN-99
Atlas AS7-00 (Jurn)
Atlas AS7-A
Atlas AS7-C
Atlas AS7-CM
Atlas AS7-D
Atlas AS7-D-DC
Atlas AS7-K
Atlas AS7-K-DC
Atlas AS7-RS
Atlas AS7-S
Atlas AS7-S2
Atlas AS7-S3
Atlas C
Awesome (Jeff X. Mink)
Awesome AWS-10KM
Awesome AWS-11M
Awesome AWS-8Q
Awesome AWS-8Q (Buck)
Awesome AWS-8Q (Smith)
Awesome AWS-8R
Awesome AWS-8T
Awesome AWS-8V
Awesome AWS-9M
Awesome AWS-9Ma
Awesome AWS-9Q
Awesome AWS-9Q (Klatt)
Axman AXM-1N
Axman AXM-2N
Axman AXM-3S
Axman AXM-4D
Axman AXM-6X
Bandersnatch BNDR-01A (Horus)
Banshee (John Bauer)
Banshee BNC-11X
Banshee BNC-1E
Banshee BNC-3E
Banshee BNC-3M
Banshee BNC-3MC
Banshee BNC-3Q
Banshee BNC-3S
Banshee BNC-3S (Reinesblatt)
Banshee BNC-5S
Banshee BNC-5S (Sawyer)
Banshee BNC-5S (Vandergriff)
Banshee BNC-6S
Banshee BNC-7S
Banshee BNC-8S
Banshee BNC-9S
Banzai BNZ-X
Barghest BGS-4X
Battle Cobra X
BattleAxe BKX-1X
BattleMaster (Raymond Aristorkhov)
BattleMaster BLR-1D
BattleMaster BLR-1G
BattleMaster BLR-1G-DC
BattleMaster BLR-1S
BattleMaster BLR-2C
BattleMaster BLR-3M
BattleMaster BLR-3M-DC
BattleMaster BLR-3S
BattleMaster BLR-4S (Calvin II)
BattleMaster BLR-4S (Calvin)
BattleMaster BLR-M3
BattleMaster C
Behemoth (Stone Rhino) 2
Behemoth (Stone Rhino) 4
Behemoth (Stone Rhino) 5
Behemoth (Stone Rhino) 6
Beowulf BEO-X-7A
Black Hawk (Nova) (Phelan 2)
Black Hawk (Nova) (Phelan)
Black Hawk-KU BHKU-O (Albert)
Black Knight BL-10-KNT (Ross)
Black Knight BL-12-KNT
Black Knight BL-6b-KNT
Black Knight BL-6-KNT
Black Knight BL-6-KNT (Ian)
Black Knight BL-7-KNT
Black Knight BL-7-KNT-L
Black Knight BL-9-KNT
Black Knight BL-X-KNT “Red Reaper”
Blackjack BJ-1
Blackjack BJ-1DB
Blackjack BJ-1DC
Blackjack BJ-1X
Blackjack BJ-2
Blackjack BJ-3
Blackjack BJ-3X
Blackjack BJ-4
Blood Kite (Standard)
Blood Kite 2
Bombardier BMB-05A
Bombardier BMB-10D
Bombardier BMB-12D
Bombardier BMB-14C
Bombardier BMB-14K
Buccaneer BCN-5W
Burrock (Standard)
Burrock 2
Caesar CES-3R
Caesar CES-3R "Archangel"
Caesar CES-3R "Gertrude"
Caesar CES-3S
Caesar CES-4R
Caesar CES-4S
Canis (Standard)
Canis 2
Cataphract CTF-0X
Cataphract CTF-1X
Cataphract CTF-2X
Cataphract CTF-2X (George)
Cataphract CTF-3D
Cataphract CTF-3L
Cataphract CTF-3LL
Cataphract CTF-3X (Sara)
Cataphract CTF-4L
Cataphract CTF-4X
Cataphract CTF-5D
Cataphract CTF-5MOC (Naomi)
Catapult CPLT-A1
Catapult CPLT-C1
Catapult CPLT-C1 "Butterbee 2"
Catapult CPLT-C1b
Catapult CPLT-C2
Catapult CPLT-C3
Catapult CPLT-C4
Catapult CPLT-C4C
Catapult CPLT-C5
Catapult CPLT-C6
Catapult CPLT-H2
Catapult CPLT-K2
Catapult CPLT-K2K
Catapult CPLT-K3
Catapult CPLT-K4
Catapult CPLT-K5
Celerity CLR-02-X-D
Centurion CN10-B
Centurion CN9-A
Centurion CN9-AH
Centurion CN9-AL
Centurion CN9-D
Centurion CN9-D3
Centurion CN9-D3D
Centurion CN9-D4D
Centurion CN9-D5
Centurion CN9-D9
Centurion CN9-Da
Centurion CN9-H
Centurion CN9-YLW "Yen Lo Wang"
Cephalus A
Cephalus B
Cephalus C
Cephalus D
Cephalus E
Cephalus Prime
Cephalus U
Cestus (Allard-Liao)
Chameleon CLN-7VQ "Q-'Mech"
Champion C
Champion CHP-1N
Champion CHP-1N (Irin)
Champion CHP-1N2
Champion CHP-1Nb
Champion CHP-2N
Champion CHP-3N
Champion CHP-3P
Champion LAM 01-04 CPN-1X1
Charger CGR-1A1
Charger CGR-1A5
Charger CGR-1A9
Charger CGR-1L
Charger CGR-1X1
Charger CGR-2A2
Charger CGR-3K
Charger CGR-C
Charger CGR-KMZ
Charger CGR-SA5
Charger CGR-SB "Challenger"
Cicada CDA-2A
Cicada CDA-2B
Cicada CDA-3C
Cicada CDA-3F
Cicada CDA-3G
Cicada CDA-3M
Cicada CDA-3MA
Cicada CDA-3P
Clint CLNT-1-2R
Clint CLNT-2-3T
Clint CLNT-2-3T (Denton)
Clint CLNT-2-3U
Clint CLNT-2-3UL
Clint CLNT-3-3T
Clint CLNT-5U
Clint CLNT-6S
Commando COM-1A
Commando COM-1B
Commando COM-1C
Commando COM-1D
Commando COM-2D
Commando COM-3A
Commando COM-4H
Commando COM-5S
Commando COM-7B
Commando COM-7S
Commando COM-7S2 (Freyr)
Commando COM-7X
Commando IIC (Standard)
Cougar-XR (Standard)
Coyotl <base>
Coyotl A
Coyotl Prime
Crab CRB-20
Crab CRB-27
Crab CRB-30
Crab CRB-45
Crab CRB-C
Crockett CRK-5003-0
Crockett CRK-5003-1
Crockett CRK-5003-3
Crockett CRK-5004-1
Crockett CRK-5005-1
Crossbow CRS-X
Crusader CRD-1R
Crusader CRD-3D
Crusader CRD-3K
Crusader CRD-3L
Crusader CRD-3R
Crusader CRD-4D
Crusader CRD-4K
Crusader CRD-4L
Crusader CRD-5M
Crusader CRD-5S
Crusader CRD-7W
Cyclops CP-10-HQ
Cyclops CP-10-Q
Cyclops CP-10-Z
Cyclops CP-10-Z-DC
Cyclops CP-11-A
Cyclops CP-11-A-DC
Cyclops CP-11-C
Cyclops CP-11-G
Cyclops CP-11-H
Cyclops CP-12-K
Daboku DCMS-MX90-D
Daedalus "Grimjet"
Daikyu DAI-01 (Tabitha)
Daimyo DMO-1K2 (al-Shahab)
Daimyo DMO-2KA
Daimyo DMO-3K
Daishi (Dire Wolf) "Prometheus"
Daishi (Dire Wolf) "Widowmaker"
Daishi (Dire Wolf) S
Daishi (Dire Wolf) W
Dasher (Fire Moth) (Aletha)
Dervish DV-1S
Dervish DV-6M
Dervish DV-6M (Mauck)
Dervish DV-7D
Dervish DV-8D
Dervish DV-8D2 "Lightbringer"
Dervish DV-9D
Deva C-DVA-O (Achillius)
Devastator DVS-X10 MUSE EARTH
Dola DOL-1A
Dragon DRG-1C
Dragon DRG-1N
Dragon DRG-5N
Dragon DRG-7N
Dragon Fire DGR-3F (Searcy II)
Dragon Fire DGR-3F (Searcy)
Dragon Fire DGR-6FC2 (Gregory)
Dragonfly (Viper) Z
Duan Gung (Vaughn)
Emperor EMP-5A
Emperor EMP-6A (Nerran)
Emperor EMP-6ME "Mercury Elite"
Enforcer ENF-4R
Enforcer ENF-4R (Daniel)
Enforcer ENF-5D
Enforcer ENF-5D (Daniel)
Enforcer III ENF-6G
Enforcer III ENF-6H
Enforcer III ENF-6T
Enforcer III ENF-7X MUSE COMPACT
Excalibur EXC-B1
Excalibur EXC-C1 (Cernunnos)
Exterminator EXT-4A
Exterminator EXT-4C
Exterminator EXT-4D
Exterminator EXT-4Db
Exterminator EXT-5E
Exterminator EXT-5F
Exterminator EXT-6CS
Fafnir FNR-4A (Peter)
Fafnir FNR-5WB
Falcon FLC-4N
Falcon FLC-4Nb
Falcon FLC-4Nb (Saho)
Falcon FLC-4Nb-PP
Falcon FLC-4Nb-PP2
Falcon FLC-4P
Falcon FLC-5P
Falcon FLC-6C
Fire Scorpion (Standard)
Fire Scorpion 2
Fire Scorpion 3
Fireball ALM-XF
Firebee FRB-1E (WAM-B)
Firefly C
Firefly FFL-3A
Firefly FFL-3PP
Firefly FFL-3PP2
Firefly FFL-3PP3
Firefly FFL-3SLE
Firefly FFL-4A
Firefly FFL-4B
Firefly FFL-4C
Firefly FFL-4D
Firefly FFL-4DA
Firestarter FS9-81X
Firestarter FS9-A
Firestarter FS9-B
Firestarter FS9-C
Firestarter FS9-H
Firestarter FS9-K
Firestarter FS9-M "Mirage"
Firestarter FS9-P
Firestarter FS9-S
Firestarter FS9-S1
Firestarter FS9-S2
Firestarter FS9-S3
Flashman FLS-7K
Flashman FLS-8K
Flashman FLS-9B
Flashman FLS-9C
Flashman FLS-9M
Flashman FLS-C
Flea "Fire Ant"
Flea FLE-14
Flea FLE-15
Flea FLE-16
Flea FLE-17
Flea FLE-19
Flea FLE-20
Flea FLE-4
Fox (Standard)
Galahad (Glass Spider) 3
Gallowglas GAL-4GLSA
Gestalt D2X-G
Gladiator GLD-1R
Goliath GOL-1H
Goliath GOL-3M
Goliath GOL-5W
Goshawk (Vapor Eagle) (Standard)
Goshawk (Vapor Eagle) 2
Goshawk (Vapor Eagle) 3
Goshawk (Vapor Eagle) 4
Grand Dragon DRG-1G
Grand Dragon DRG-1G (Douglas)
Grand Dragon DRG-5K
Grand Dragon DRG-5K (Emory)
Grand Dragon DRG-5K-DC
Grand Dragon DRG-7K
Grand Dragon DRG-7K (Mark)
Grand Dragon DRG-9KC
Grand Dragon DRG-C
Grand Titan T-IT-N14R "Vengeance"
Grand Titan T-IT-N16M (Al-Hawad)
Grasshopper GHR-4R
Grasshopper GHR-5H
Grasshopper GHR-5J
Grasshopper GHR-5N
Grasshopper GHR-6K
Grasshopper GHR-7K
Grasshopper GHR-7K "Gravedigger"
Grasshopper GHR-7X
Grasshopper GHR-C
Great Wyrm (Aemelia)
Great Wyrm (Standard)
Griffin GRF-1A
Griffin GRF-1DS
Griffin GRF-1E "Sparky"
Griffin GRF-1E2 "Sparky 2.0"
Griffin GRF-1N
Griffin GRF-1S
Griffin GRF-2N
Griffin GRF-3M
Griffin GRF-5K
Griffin GRF-5L
Griffin GRF-6S (Francine II)
Griffin GRF-6S (Francine)
Griffin IIC 2
Griffin IIC 5
Griffin IIC 6
Grigori C-GRG-O (Rufus)
Grim Reaper GRM-R-PR62A
Grizzly (Standard)
Guillotine GLT-3N
Guillotine GLT-4L
Guillotine GLT-4P
Guillotine GLT-5M
Guillotine GLT-6WB
Guillotine GLT-6WB2
Guillotine GLT-6WB3
Guillotine GLT-8D
Gunslinger GUN-1ERD (Jared)
Ha Otoko-HR (Refit)
Ha Otoko-HR (Standard)
Hatamoto-Chi HTM-26T
Hatamoto-Chi HTM-27T
Hatamoto-Chi HTM-27T (Daniel II)
Hatamoto-Chi HTM-27T (Daniel)
Hatamoto-Chi HTM-28T
Hatamoto-Chi HTM-28T (Shin)
Hatamoto-Hi HTM-27U
Hatamoto-Hi HTM-C
Hatamoto-Hi HTM-CM
Hatamoto-Kaeru HTM-35X
Hatamoto-Kaze HTM-27V
Hatamoto-Ku HTM-27W
Hatamoto-Mizo HTM-27Y
Hatchetman HCT-3F
Hatchetman HCT-3F (Austin)
Hatchetman HCT-5D
Hatchetman HCT-5DD
Hatchetman HCT-5K
Hatchetman HCT-5S
Hatchetman HCT-5S (Austin)
Hatchetman HCT-6D
Hatchetman HCT-6S
HawkWolf HWK-3F
Helepolis HEP-1H
Hellfire (Standard)
Hellfire 2
Hellspawn HSN-7D2 (Halperin)
Hellstar (Matt Houan)
Hercules HRC-LS-9000 (Julius)
Hermes HER-1A
Hermes HER-1B
Hermes HER-1S
Hermes HER-1Sb
Hermes HER-3S
Hermes HER-3S1
Hermes HER-3S2
Hermes HER-4K
Hermes HER-4M
Hermes HER-4S
Hermes HER-4WB
Hermes II HER-2K "Hermes III"
Hermes II HER-2M "Mercury"
Hermes II HER-2S
Hermes II HER-4K "Hermes III"
Hermes II HER-5C
Hermes II HER-5ME "Mercury Elite"
Hermes II HER-5S
Hermes II HER-5SA
Hermes II HER-6D
Hermes II HER-7S
Highlander HGN-641-X-2
Highlander HGN-694
Highlander HGN-732
Highlander HGN-732 (Colleen)
Highlander HGN-733
Highlander HGN-733C
Highlander HGN-733P
Highlander HGN-734
Highlander HGN-734r
Highlander HGN-736
Highlander HGN-738
Hoplite C
Hoplite HOP-4A
Hoplite HOP-4B
Hoplite HOP-4Bb
Hoplite HOP-4C
Hoplite HOP-4Cb
Hoplite HOP-4D
Hoplite HOP-4X
Hornet HNT-151
Hornet HNT-152
Hornet HNT-161
Hornet HNT-171
Hunchback HBK-4G
Hunchback HBK-4G (Hohiro)
Hunchback HBK-4G (Shakir)
Hunchback HBK-4H
Hunchback HBK-4J
Hunchback HBK-4N
Hunchback HBK-4P
Hunchback HBK-4SP
Hunchback HBK-5H
Hunchback HBK-5M
Hunchback HBK-5N
Hunchback HBK-5P
Hunchback HBK-5S
Hunchback HBK-5SG
Hunchback HBK-6N
Hunchback HBK-6S
Hunchback HBK-7X-4
Hunchback IIC 2
Hunchback IIC 3
Huron Warrior HUR-WO-R4X
Hussar HSR-200-D
Hussar HSR-300-D
Hussar HSR-350-D
Hussar HSR-400-D
Hussar HSR-500-D
Hussar HSR-900-D
Hussar HSR-950-D
Icarus ICR-1X
Imp C
Imp IMP-1A
Imp IMP-1B
Imp IMP-1C
Imp IMP-2E
Imp IMP-3E
Imp IMP-4E
Jackal JA-KL-1578
Jackal JA-KL-1579
JagerMech JM6-A
JagerMech JM6-B
JagerMech JM6-DD
JagerMech JM6-DDa
JagerMech JM6-DG
JagerMech JM6-DGr
JagerMech JM6-H
JagerMech JM7-D
JagerMech JM7-F
JagerMech JM7-G
Javelin JVN-10A
Javelin JVN-10F "Fire Javelin"
Javelin JVN-10N
Javelin JVN-10P
Javelin JVN-11A "Fire Javelin"
Javelin JVN-11B
Javelin JVN-11D
Javelin JVN-11D (Farrell)
Javelin JVN-11F
Jenner JR10-X
Jenner JR7-A
Jenner JR7-C
Jenner JR7-C2
Jenner JR7-C3
Jenner JR7-D
Jenner JR7-F
Jenner JR7-K
Jenner JR7-K (Grace II)
Jenner JR7-K (Grace)
Jenner JR7-K (Samuli)
Jinggau JN-G8BX (Rush)
Juggernaut JG-R9TX1 "Leapin' Lil"
Katana (Crockett) CRK-5003-2
Katana (Crockett) CRK-5003-C
Katana (Crockett) CRK-5003-CJ
Katana (Crockett) CRK-5003-CM
King Crab KGC-000
King Crab KGC-0000
King Crab KGC-001
King Crab KGC-005
King Crab KGC-007
King Crab KGC-008
King Crab KGC-008B
Kintaro KTO-18
Kintaro KTO-19
Kintaro KTO-20
Kintaro KTO-21
Kintaro KTO-C
Kintaro KTO-K
Kodiak (Cale)
Koshi (Mist Lynx) Z
Kraken (Bane) 2
Kraken-XR (Standard)
Kyudo KY2-D-01
Lancelot LNC25-01
Lancelot LNC25-01X
Lancelot LNC25-02
Lancelot LNC25-03
Lancelot LNC25-04
Lancelot LNC25-05
Lancelot LNC25-06
Lancelot LNC25-08
Legionnaire LGN-2X1 MUSE FIRE
Liberator LIB-4T
Lightray LGH-6W
Locust IIC 3
Locust LCT-1E
Locust LCT-1L
Locust LCT-1M
Locust LCT-1S
Locust LCT-1V
Locust LCT-1Vb
Locust LCT-3D
Locust LCT-3M
Locust LCT-3S
Locust LCT-3V
Locust LCT-5T
Locust LCT-6M
Longbow LGB-0W
Longbow LGB-13C
Longbow LGB-13NAIS
Longbow LGB-14C
Lupus <Base>
Lupus A
Lupus B
Lupus Prime
Mackie MSK-5S
Mackie MSK-7A
Mad Cat (Timber Wolf) (Bounty Hunter 2)
Mad Cat (Timber Wolf) (Bounty Hunter)
Mad Cat (Timber Wolf) (Pryde)
Mad Cat (Timber Wolf) Z
Mad Cat III X
Malak C-MK-O (Mi)
Mandrill (Standard)
Marauder (Bounty Hunter-3015)
Marauder (Bounty Hunter-3044)
Marauder II (Bounty Hunter)
Marauder II MAD-4A
Marauder II MAD-4K
Marauder II MAD-4S
Marauder II MAD-5A
Marauder IIC 4
Marauder IIC 5
Marauder MAD-3D
Marauder MAD-3L
Marauder MAD-3M
Marauder MAD-3M-DC
Marauder MAD-3R
Marauder MAD-4X
Marauder MAD-5D
Marauder MAD-5D-DC
Marauder MAD-5M
Marauder MAD-5S
Marauder MAD-6L
Marauder MAD-9M2
Masakari (Warhawk) (Tara)
Matador (Standard)
Matar SAM-RS2
Mauler MAL-1K
Mauler MAL-1R
Mauler MAL-2R
Mauler MAL-3R
Mauler MAL-4X “Todesbote”
Mauler MAL-C
Men Shen (Li)
Mercury II MCY-100
Mercury MCY-102
Mercury MCY-104
Mercury MCY-97
Mercury MCY-98
Mercury MCY-99
Merlin MLN-SX
Minsk (Standard)
Mongoose MON-66
Mongoose MON-67
Mongoose MON-68
Mongoose MON-69
Mongoose MON-70
Mongoose MON-76
Nightstar (Joshua Franco)
Nobori-nin (Huntsman) <Base>
Nobori-nin (Huntsman) A
Nobori-nin (Huntsman) B
Nobori-nin (Huntsman) C
Nobori-nin (Huntsman) Prime
No-Dachi NDA-3X
Omega SHP-X4
Orion ON1-C
Orion ON1-H
Orion ON1-K
Orion ON1-K (Kerensky)
Orion ON1-M
Orion ON1-MA
Orion ON1-MB
Orion ON1-MC
Orion ON1-MD
Orion ON1-M-DC
Orion ON1-V
Orion ON1-VA
Orion ON1-V-DC
Orion ON2-M
Orion ON3-MX
Osteon (Jaguar)
Osteon <Base>
Osteon A
Osteon B
Osteon C
Osteon D
Osteon E
Osteon F
Osteon G
Osteon Prime
Osteon U
Ostroc OSR-2C
Ostroc OSR-2D
Ostroc OSR-2L
Ostroc OSR-2M
Ostroc OSR-3C
Ostscout IIC (Standard)
Ostscout OTT-10CS
Ostscout OTT-7J
Ostscout OTT-7K
Ostsol OTL-4D
Ostsol OTL-4F
Ostsol OTL-5M
Ostsol OTL-8D
Pandarus LFA-1X
Panther PNT-10K
Panther PNT-10KA
Panther PNT-12A
Panther PNT-14S
Panther PNT-16K
Panther PNT-8Z
Panther PNT-9ALAG
Panther PNT-9R
Panther PNT-C
Panther PNT-CA
Pariah (Septicemia) <Base>
Pariah (Septicemia) A
Pariah (Septicemia) A-Z
Pariah (Septicemia) B
Pariah (Septicemia) B-Z
Pariah (Septicemia) C
Pariah (Septicemia) C-Z
Pariah (Septicemia) D
Pariah (Septicemia) D-Z
Pariah (Septicemia) E
Pariah (Septicemia) F
Pariah (Septicemia) Prime
Pariah (Septicemia) US
Pariah (Septicemia) UW
Pariah (Septicemia) Z
Pathfinder PFF-2
Pathfinder PFF-2T
Pendragon PDG-1X MUSE RED
Peregrine (Horned Owl) (Standard)
Peregrine (Horned Owl) 2
Peregrine (Horned Owl) 4
Peregrine (Horned Owl) 5
Phoenix Hawk IIC 5
Phoenix Hawk IIC 6
Phoenix Hawk LAM C
Phoenix Hawk PXH-1
Phoenix Hawk PXH-1D
Phoenix Hawk PXH-1K
Phoenix Hawk PXH-2
Phoenix Hawk PXH-3D
Phoenix Hawk PXH-3K
Phoenix Hawk PXH-3M
Phoenix Hawk PXH-3S
Phoenix Hawk PXH-4L (Sante)
Phoenix Hawk PXH-7K
Pillager PLG-4X "Anvil"
Predator (Standard)
Preta C-PRT-O (Kendali)
Pulverizer PUL-2V
Pwwka S-PW-1LAM
Quickdraw QKD-4G
Quickdraw QKD-4H
Quickdraw QKD-5A
Quickdraw QKD-5K
Quickdraw QKD-5K2
Quickdraw QKD-5M
Quickdraw QKD-8K
Quickdraw QKD-8X
Quickdraw QKD-C
Rabid Coyote (Standard)
Rampage RMP-2G
Rampage RMP-4G
Rampage RMP-5G
Raven RVN-1X
Raven RVN-2X
Raven RVN-3L
Raven RVN-3M
Raven RVN-3X
Raven RVN-4L
Raven RVN-4LC
Raven RVN-4X
Raven RVN-SR "Shattered Raven"
Raven RVN-SS "Shattered Raven"
Raven X RVN-3X
Revenant UBM-1A
Rifleman (Loren Jaffray)
Rifleman IIC 5
Rifleman IIC 6
Rifleman RFL-1N
Rifleman RFL-2N
Rifleman RFL-3C
Rifleman RFL-3Cr
Rifleman RFL-3M
Rifleman RFL-3N
Rifleman RFL-3N (Rubinsky 1)
Rifleman RFL-3N (Rubinsky 2)
Rifleman RFL-3N (Sneed)
Rifleman RFL-4D
Rifleman RFL-5D
Rifleman RFL-5M
Rifleman RFL-6D
Rifleman RFL-9T
Rifleman RFL-X3 MUSE WIND
Rook NH-1A
Rook NH-1B
Rook NH-1X "Rook-X"
Rook NH-2A
Ryoken (Stormcrow) Z
Sarissa MN1-D
Savage Coyote Z
Schwerer Gustav (Standard)
Scorpion LAM SCP-X1
Scorpion SCP-12K
Scorpion SCP-1N
Scorpion SCP-1N (Rubinsky)
Scorpion SCP-1N (Wendall)
Scorpion SCP-1O
Scylla (Standard)
Sentinel STN-1S
Sentinel STN-3K
Sentinel STN-3KA
Sentinel STN-3KB
Sentinel STN-3L
Sentinel STN-3Lb
Sentinel STN-3M
Sentinel STN-4D
Sentinel STN-5WB
Sentinel STN-C
Seraph C-SRP-O (Havalah)
Seraph C-SRP-OR (Ravana)
Sha Yu (Bulldog)
Shadow Hawk IIC (Standard)
Shadow Hawk IIC 5
Shadow Hawk IIC 6
Shadow Hawk SHD-11CS
Shadow Hawk SHD-1R
Shadow Hawk SHD-2D
Shadow Hawk SHD-2D2
Shadow Hawk SHD-2H
Shadow Hawk SHD-2Hb
Shadow Hawk SHD-2K
Shadow Hawk SHD-3H
Shadow Hawk SHD-5D (Sandy)
Shadow Hawk SHD-5M
Shadow Hawk SHD-9D
Shogun C
Shogun SHG-2E
Shogun SHG-2F
Shogun SHG-2F (Trisha)
Shogun SHG-2H
Slagmaiden SLG-X
Sling SL-1G
Sling SL-1H
Snake (Arthur)
Snake SNK-1V (Alexi)
Snow Fox (Standard)
Spartan SPT-N1
Spatha SP2-X "Warlord"
Spider SDR-5D
Spider SDR-5K
Spider SDR-5V
Spider SDR-7K
Spider SDR-7K2
Spider SDR-7KC
Spider SDR-7M
Spider SDR-8M
Spider SDR-C
Stag II ST-24G
Stag ST-14G
Stalker STK-3F
Stalker STK-3F (Jamison)
Stalker STK-3Fb
Stalker STK-3H
Stalker STK-4N
Stalker STK-4P
Stalker STK-5M
Stalker STK-5S
Stalker STK-6M
Stalker STK-7D
Stalker STK-8S
Stalking Spider (Standard)
Stalking Spider 2
Stalking Spider 3
Stealth STH-1D (Anna)
Stealth STH-5X
Stiletto STO-6X
Stinger LAM C
Stinger STG-3G
Stinger STG-3Gb
Stinger STG-3R
Stinger STG-5M
Stinger STG-5T
Stinger STG-6S
Stooping Hawk <Base>
Stooping Hawk A
Stooping Hawk B
Stooping Hawk C
Stooping Hawk D
Stooping Hawk F
Stooping Hawk G
Stooping Hawk Prime
Super-Griffin GRF-2N-X
Super-Wasp WSP-2A-X
Talos TLS-1B
Temax Cat Ninjabolt TMC-NB
Tessen TSN-X-4
Thanatos TNS-4S (Felix)
Thor (Summoner) Q
Thor (Summoner) Z
Thorn THE-F
Thorn THE-N
Thorn THE-N1
Thorn THE-N2
Thorn THE-Nb
Thorn THE-S
Thorn THE-T
Thresher (Edward)
Thug THG-10E
Thug THG-11E
Thug THG-11ECX (Jose)
Thug THG-12E
Thug THG-12K
Thug THG-13K
Thunderbolt TDR-11SE
Thunderbolt TDR-17S
Thunderbolt TDR-1C
Thunderbolt TDR-5D
Thunderbolt TDR-5S
Thunderbolt TDR-5Sb
Thunderbolt TDR-5SE
Thunderbolt TDR-5SS
Thunderbolt TDR-60-RLA
Thunderbolt TDR-7M
Thunderbolt TDR-9S
Thunderbolt TDR-9SE
Ti Ts'ang "China Doll"
Ti Ts'ang TSG-9H (Jason)
Toro TR-A-1
Toyama TYM-1B
Trebuchet TBT-3C
Trebuchet TBT-5J
Trebuchet TBT-5N
Trebuchet TBT-5S
Trebuchet TBT-7K
Trebuchet TBT-7M
Trebuchet TBT-8B
Trebuchet TBT-9K
Trebuchet TBT-XK7
Trooper TP-1R
Tundra Wolf (Standard)
Turkina Z
Uller (Kit Fox) (Rood)
UrbanMech UM-R50
UrbanMech UM-R60
UrbanMech UM-R60L
UrbanMech UM-R63
UrbanMech UM-R68
UrbanMech UM-R69
UrbanMech UM-R70
Ursus PR
Uziel UZL-2S (Jacob II)
Uziel UZL-2S (Jacob)
Valiant VAL-NT-JX "Hot Knife"
Valkyrie VLK-QA
Valkyrie VLK-QD
Valkyrie VLK-QD2
Valkyrie VLK-QF
Valkyrie VLK-QS5
Venom SDR-9K
Victor C
Victor VTR-10D
Victor VTR-10L
Victor VTR-10S
Victor VTR-11D
Victor VTR-9A
Victor VTR-9A1
Victor VTR-9B
Victor VTR-9D
Victor VTR-9K
Victor VTR-9K2 (St.James)
Victor VTR-9Ka
Victor VTR-9S
Victor VTR-C
Viking VKG-3W
Vindicator VND-1AA "Avenging Angel"
Vindicator VND-1R
Vindicator VND-1R (Vong)
Vindicator VND-1SIC
Vindicator VND-1X
Vindicator VND-3L
Vindicator VND-3LD (Dao)
Vindicator VND-4L
Vindicator VND-5L
Vindicator VND-6L
Viper (Black Python) 2
Viper (Black Python) 3
Vision Quest (Standard)
Vixen (Incubus) 2
Vixen (Incubus) 3
Vulcan VL-2T
Vulcan VL-5T
Vulcan VT-5M
Vulcan VT-5S
Vulcan VT-6C
Vulcan VT-6M
Wakazashi (Standard)
Waneta S-WN-1LAM
Waneta S-WN-2LAM
Warhammer IIC (Standard)
Warhammer IIC 5
Warhammer IIC 6
Warhammer WHM-10T
Warhammer WHM-6D
Warhammer WHM-6K
Warhammer WHM-6L
Warhammer WHM-6L-DC
Warhammer WHM-6R
Warhammer WHM-6R-DC
Warhammer WHM-7A
Warhammer WHM-7M
Warhammer WHM-7M-DC
Warhammer WHM-7S
Warhammer WHM-8K
Warhammer WHM-8M
Warhammer WHM-X7 "The Lich"
Warlord BLR-2XC
Wasp WSP-1
Wasp WSP-1A
Wasp WSP-1D
Wasp WSP-1K
Wasp WSP-1L
Wasp WSP-1S
Wasp WSP-1W
Wasp WSP-3M
Wasp WSP-3W
Wasp WSP-7MAF
Whitworth WTH-0
Whitworth WTH-1
Whitworth WTH-1H
Whitworth WTH-1S
Whitworth WTH-2
Whitworth WTH-2A
Whitworth WTH-3
Whitworth WTH-5S
Whitworth WTH-K
Wight WGT-4NC "Dezgra"
Wolf Trap (Tora) WFT-1
Wolf Trap (Tora) WFT-1 (Daitama)
Wolf Trap (Tora) WFT-2
Wolf Trap (Tora) WFT-2X "Bear Trap"
Wolf Trap (Tora) WFT-B
Wolf Trap (Tora) WFT-C
Wolfhound (Lucian Finn)
Wolfhound IIC "Grinner"
Wolfhound WLF-1
Wolfhound WLF-1 (Allard)
Wolfhound WLF-1A
Wolfhound WLF-1B
Wolfhound WLF-2
Wolfhound WLF-2X
Wolfhound WLF-3S
Wolfhound WLF-4W
Wolfhound WLF-4WA
Wolverine II WVR-7H
Wolverine WVR-1R
Wolverine WVR-3R
Wolverine WVR-6D
Wolverine WVR-6K
Wolverine WVR-6M
Wolverine WVR-6R
Wolverine WVR-7D
Wolverine WVR-7K
Wolverine WVR-7M
Wolverine WVR-9K
Wolverine WVR-9M
Woodsman <Base>
Woodsman A
Woodsman Prime
Wraith TR2-X "Alexander"
Wyvern WVE-10N
Wyvern WVE-5N
Wyvern WVE-6N
Wyvern WVE-9N
Xanthos XNT-2O
Yurei S-YR-1LAM
Zeus (Herbert Baldric)
Zeus ZEU-10WB
Zeus ZEU-5S
Zeus ZEU-5T
Zeus ZEU-6A
Zeus ZEU-6S
Zeus ZEU-6S1
Zeus ZEU-6S-DC
Zeus ZEU-6T
Zeus ZEU-6Y
Zeus ZEU-9S
Zeus ZEU-9S2
Zeus ZEU-9S-DC
Zeus ZEU-9T
Zeus-X ZEU-9WD
Zeus-X ZEU-9WD (Stacy)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 20 May 2020, 00:06:43
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4713/newgrange-iii-yardship-eyrines

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4714/newgrange-iii-yardship-standard

Both of these are listed under "Advanced Aerospace - JumpShip" and should be "Advanced Aerospace - WarShip" instead.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 20 May 2020, 20:37:21
I think the faction availabilities for the Cecerops 3 and Cecerops 4 are backwards. The fluff in TRO:3075 and the Wars of Reaving RATs suggest that the 3 should be the Blood Spirit variant, while the 4 should be the Society variant.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Frabby on 24 May 2020, 14:19:06
Does the MUL account for DropShuttles (the proto-DropShips which were carried internally and could mass no more than 5000 tons) as such?
I'm aware of only four such ship types that were introduced pre-2470 which named in canon, but none of them is called a DropShuttle. Instead, they are listed as DropShips in the MUL in what I presume is an error (or not at all):

Saturn Patrol Ship: Aerospace - DropShip
Black Eagle: Aerospace - DropShip
DroST IIa/b: Aerospace - DropShip (special case, it's already been acknowledged that the original pre-2470 DroST needs errata because it is too heavy at 5300 tons and the stats are actually for a post-2470 DropShip variant)
Clippership IV: not listed in MUL

Can you confirm that the MUL doesn't distinguish between DropShuttles and DropShips, and that designs predating ~2462 (introduction of the Czar DropShip) should automatically be assumed to be DropShuttle designs?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: XanKortal on 31 May 2020, 20:39:25
Fire Falcon A is listed as a 'Homeworld Clan' during the Jihad era, while all other variants list which specific factions they belong to.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1063/fire-falcon-a#
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1063/fire-falcon-b#

Wouldn't access to one omnimech variant for a faction also grant access to other versions of that mech? (Where technology used in that variant was available to the faction)
(Alternatively: was the Fire Falcon A too broadly applied?)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Dukeroyal on 12 June 2020, 22:35:17
Shouldn't the Wolverine II be removed from being available to the Clans since they would not use it because of the name or do they have a different name for it?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 12 June 2020, 23:20:00
Shouldn't the Wolverine II be removed from being available to the Clans since they would not use it because of the name or do they have a different name for it?

Yes, removed. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Dukeroyal on 12 June 2020, 23:46:50
Yes, removed. Thanks.

You're welcome.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Dukeroyal on 21 June 2020, 18:39:59
Based on the cover of Field Manual: Crusader Clans and also that the Clan Jade Falcon held part of York should the Black Lanner be added to the 'Mechs available to Clan Blood Spirit?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 23 June 2020, 19:27:32
Been awhile since I brought these up (half a year+), so maybe it's time to try to get some of these fixed, if possible.

Arbalest 2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/60/arbalest-2)
Issue: Movement is listed as 10" but it should be 12" since the unit is equipped with MASC. Subsequently the PV is 24 due to the speed increase. Calculations below.

Code: (Movement Calculation) [Select]
=======================================================================================================
Convert Movement and Movement Modes
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ground Movement:               5 (Walk)                                                     =     10"
     Equipped with MASC                                                          (*)    1.25  =     12"
     Ground Target Movement Modifier at 12" is 2                                                       
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Movement and Movement Modes:                                                                  12"

Code: (Point Value Calculation) [Select]
=======================================================================================================
Determine Point Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit's Offensive Value:                                                                             
     Attack Damage Factor        2 (Short) + 2 (Medium) + 2 (Medium) + 1 (Long)               =   7.000
     Unit Size Factor            1 (Weight/Size Class) / 2                       (+)   0.500  =   7.500
     Overheat Factor             0 (Overheat)                                    (+)   0.000  =   7.500
     Special Ability Factor      [IF1] 1 (Ability Rating)                        (+)   1.000  =   8.500
     Blanket Offensive Modifier  1 (Base)                                        (*)   1.000  =   8.500
                                                                                                       
  Defensive Interaction Rating:                                                                       
     Armor Factor                3 (Armor) x 2.0 (Non-Vehicle Unit)                           =   6.000
     Structure Factor            2 (Structure) x 1.0 (Other Unit)                (+)   2.000  =   8.000
     Defense Factor              1 + {[2 (12" Move)] x 0.1}                      (*)   1.200  =   9.600
     Final DIR                   Round to nearest half point                                  =   9.500
                                                                                                       
  Unit's Defensive Value:                                                                             
     Movement Factor             1.5 (0.25 per 2")                                            =   1.500
     Final DIR                   Defensive Interaction Rating                    (+)   9.500  =  11.000
                                                                                                       
  Unit's Final Point Value:                                                                           
     Offensive Value                                                                          =   8.500
     Defensive Value                                                             (+)  11.000  =  19.500
     Agile                       2 (TMM) - 1 x 2 (Medium)                        (+)   2.000  =  21.500
     Force Bonus                 [ECM] Electronic Countermeasures                (+)   2.000  =  23.500
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Point Value:                                                                                   24
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Renard on 23 June 2020, 22:30:10
Is the database downloadable anywhere? I'd like to load it into R or python and play with it if possible.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 24 June 2020, 06:07:41
It isn't
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Zeruel on 05 July 2020, 14:18:59
the Isegrim Assault Dropship is in use by the Rasalhague Dominion as per FM:3145, p.164, in the write-up for the Dominion fleet

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4376/isegrim-assault-dropship-standard (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4376/isegrim-assault-dropship-standard)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nahuris on 05 July 2020, 19:33:40
Just a question about the Locust 5M .... here is the Sarna Entry:

LCT-5M
The 5M was a straightforward enhancement of the 3M model, upgrading all of the lasers to extended range models, giving it one Magna Mk VI ER Medium Laser and four Magna Mk IV ER Small Lasers. In addition, the use of a Hermes 240 XL Engine allowed engineers to upgrade the Locust's top speed to 194.4 km/h. Designed by the Word of Blake, each of their Level III units had at least one 5M Locust after its introduction in 3066.[11][42] BV (1.0) = 516,[33] BV (2.0) = 719[43]

And, yes, it does show under WOB for the Civil War era, but does not show in the Jihad era, when clicked on... just wanted to follow up, as if they had this many, one in every level III, then were they ALL changed over to another, or do they still exist in the Militias?


Thanks in Advance,

Nahuris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 20 July 2020, 07:55:04
the Isegrim Assault Dropship is in use by the Rasalhague Dominion as per FM:3145, p.164, in the write-up for the Dominion fleet

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4376/isegrim-assault-dropship-standard (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4376/isegrim-assault-dropship-standard)

Thanks. added to Hell's Horses and Jade Falcons as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 20 July 2020, 08:01:03
Arbalest 2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/60/arbalest-2)
Issue: Movement is listed as 10" but it should be 12" since the unit is equipped with MASC. Subsequently the PV is 24 due to the speed increase. Calculations below.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 21 July 2020, 14:51:04
Thanks for confirming and updating the Arbalest 2. Here's the next one that was reported a while back. I'll go as slow or as fast as you want. But I'll only report one-at-a-time so as not to overwhelm.

Arcas 3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5686/arcas-3)
Issue: Both the short-range damage and medium-range damage is listed as 4 with an overheat of 1. They should both, however, be 5 with an overheat of 0. I think the issue may have been that the unit was calculated as if it had standard jump jets, but it has improved, so movement heat is halved, making the unit heat efficient. As a result of the change, PV is impacted as well. I've included the short, medium, and PV calculations below for reference.

Code: (Short-Range Damage) [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Short Range Damage Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is efficient                                                         
     30 (Heat Sinks)                                                                              =       30
     3.5 (Movement) + 29 (Weapons) - 4 (Base)                                       (-)     28.5  =      1.5
                                                                                                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                            =    0.000
     Streak SRM 4                                                                   (+)    0.800  =    0.800
     Medium Pulse Laser          [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    0.847  =    1.647
     Medium Pulse Laser          [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    0.847  =    2.494
     Heavy Large Laser           [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    1.672  =    4.166
                                                                                                           
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                               
     Damage subtotal rounded up to the nearest tenth                                              =      4.2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Short Range Damage Value:                                                                            5

Code: (Medium-Range Damage) [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Medium Range Damage Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency:               Unit is efficient                                                         
     30 (Heat Sinks)                                                                              =       30
     3.5 (Movement) + 29 (Weapons) - 4 (Base)                                       (-)     28.5  =      1.5
                                                                                                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                            =    0.000
     Streak SRM 4                                                                   (+)    0.800  =    0.800
     Medium Pulse Laser          [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    0.847  =    1.647
     Medium Pulse Laser          [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    0.847  =    2.494
     Heavy Large Laser           [Targeting Computer]                               (+)    1.672  =    4.166
                                                                                                           
  Heat-modified damage value:                                                                               
     Damage subtotal rounded up to the nearest tenth                                              =      4.2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Medium Range Damage Value:                                                                           5

Code: (Point Value) [Select]
============================================================================================================
Determine Point Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Unit's Offensive Value:                                                                                   
     Attack Damage Factor        5 (Short) + 5 (Medium) + 5 (Medium) + 0 (Long)                   =   15.000
     Unit Size Factor            3 (Weight/Size Class) / 2                          (+)    1.500  =   16.500
     Overheat Factor             0 (Overheat)                                       (+)    0.000  =   16.500
     Blanket Offensive Modifier  1 (Base)                                           (*)    1.000  =   16.500
                                                                                                           
  Defensive Interaction Rating:                                                                             
     Armor Factor                7 (Armor) x 2.0 (Non-Vehicle Unit)                               =   14.000
     Structure Factor            4 (Structure) x 1.0 (Other Unit)                   (+)    4.000  =   18.000
     Defense Factor              1 + {[2 (10" Move)] x 0.1}                         (*)    1.200  =   21.600
     Final DIR                   Round to nearest half point                                      =   21.500
                                                                                                           
  Unit's Defensive Value:                                                                                   
     Movement Factor             1.75 (0.25 per 2") + 0.5 (Jump-capable)                          =    2.250
     Final DIR                   Defensive Interaction Rating                       (+)   21.500  =   23.750
                                                                                                           
  Unit's Final Point Value:                                                                                 
     Offensive Value                                                                              =   16.500
     Defensive Value                                                                (+)   23.750  =   40.250
     Agile                       2 (TMM) - 1 x 5 (Medium)                           (+)    5.000  =   45.250
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Point Value:                                                                                        45
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 26 July 2020, 14:02:28
unsure if this qualifies but i'll throw it out there anyway

the ZEU-6A is officially listed as a Sniper, but per His Dudeness, Arbiter of Roles™:

Ha, the ZEU-6A looks like it was just an error.

Problem: ZEU-6A is listed as a sniper (in apparent c/p error)

Solution: Reclassify as a Brawler per precedent of other 4/6 assault brawlers with a long range option and a short range weapons suite such as the BLR-1D, BLR-1G, and, BLR-1S


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: IronLichRich31 on 28 July 2020, 10:42:57
Apologies if this is the wrong place to post this. Does the BV listed on MUL for the Ryoken-III include the interface cockpit?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 30 July 2020, 22:20:34
Cronus CNS-3M - introduces 3031.

It has availability as FWL yet the manufacturing site became part of federated commonwealth in the same year it was introduced; 3031

I think availability should also include Davion/Steiner and more than likely mercenary.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 07 August 2020, 11:20:01
Grasshopper:

All entries except the 7P and 7X:  wrong art.

The MUL was updated with Recognition Guide 1 today, so theoretically all of the old models of Grasshopper and the new 8K should feature the new art from the Rec Guide.  All the grasshoppers have the original art and the 8K is currently blank.

The art from the 7P and 7X Grasshoppers is a judgment call that I'm not qualified to make--maybe they should get the new art and maybe they shouldn't.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 07 August 2020, 12:16:42
Grasshopper:

All entries except the 7P and 7X:  wrong art.

The MUL was updated with Recognition Guide 1 today, so theoretically all of the old models of Grasshopper and the new 8K should feature the new art from the Rec Guide.  All the grasshoppers have the original art and the 8K is currently blank.

The art from the 7P and 7X Grasshoppers is a judgment call that I'm not qualified to make--maybe they should get the new art and maybe they shouldn't.

We will likely update the art for old units at some point, but this is incorrect to call the old Grasshopper art wrong.  It's still the Grasshopper art.  Thanks. we really don't need a bunch of these listing every KS 'mech.  We'll switch over when we can.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 07 August 2020, 12:24:44
We will likely update the art for old units at some point, but this is incorrect to call the old Grasshopper art wrong.  It's still the Grasshopper art.  Thanks. we really don't need a bunch of these listing every KS 'mech.  We'll switch over when we can.

Understood, lets just chalk it up to being excited for the new art.  I looked up the other two entries, the 7P and 7X, and since they have a Torso mounted cockpit is it fair to say they won't be switched over when the time comes?

Cheers,

Mad.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 07 August 2020, 12:56:23
Understood, lets just chalk it up to being excited for the new art.  I looked up the other two entries, the 7P and 7X, and since they have a Torso mounted cockpit is it fair to say they won't be switched over when the time comes?

Cheers,

Mad.

Not anywhere near a "final answer" but yes.  I suspect anything that has specific art for it, as being substantially different from other models, will remain with their own art.  Project Phoenix designs will stay with Project Phoenix, TR Prototypes will stay with their unique art.  I'm sure there will be discussions/arguments over specifics :).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 11 August 2020, 23:58:17
Will you be adding the desert scorpion (tank) featured in the touring the stars stotzing?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: TigerShark on 16 August 2020, 19:59:27
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2176/merkava-heavy-tank-mk-viii (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2176/merkava-heavy-tank-mk-viii)

Merkava Heavy Tank Mk VII
Availability: SLDF, HAF, AEAF

Should this not be IS General and Periphery General? This tank, while build by the Hegemony in the 25th century, is described in the TRO as an analog for the copies made by other states.

TRO:3075, page 174
Quote
The Merkava is a typical heavy tank from the Age of War.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 22 August 2020, 05:22:15
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5755/tatsu-mik-od

The Tatsu D is for some reason listed as being available to the Capellan Confederation during Late Republic. None of the other configurations are this, and in the other eras availability is "Dracs, RotS, Nova Cats", which makes me think the CapCon is a mistake and should be actually the Draconis Combine.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 22 August 2020, 09:04:46
Master Unit List error - Dominator 2 stat card error.

Ref: Recognition Guide Vol.1 p7-8, 24-25
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7435/dominator-2

Just a minor clerical error: the stat card gives the Dominator 2 six (6) Structure boxes when it should only have four (4), matching the Standard variant (no apparent change to equipment; retains the clan XL Engine and Supercharger does not decrease Structure value in the ASC).
BV/PV look otherwise accurate.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 22 August 2020, 18:13:24
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/318/behemoth-stone-rhino-standard

 After the Jihad the design according to the MUL is a Snow Raven exclusive.
According to RG vol 2 page 10 the Stone Rhino is manufactured by the Hell Horses on Csesztreg.
I think there is  a confusion with the 7 which is more likely to be a Raven design.
 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 22 August 2020, 18:20:36
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7451/ostscout-ott-8j

More of a question. According to RG vol 2 the ostscout 8J is manufactured on Robinson a world recaptured by the Federated Suns (by RotS forces) in 3149.
Should it be added to the FS list as well?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 23 August 2020, 05:12:44
None of the availability have been changed to incorporate the recognition guides. We will go through and change them after we get another project done.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 23 August 2020, 05:19:22
None of the availability have been changed to incorporate the recognition guides. We will go through and change them after we get another project done.

I am sorry I don't understand. The MUL has been updated (and I am very happy for that!) with the units from the first two volumes of the Recognition Guides. We have availability for the Dominator and the Sojourner for example.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 24 August 2020, 06:27:23
I am sorry I don't understand. The MUL has been updated (and I am very happy for that!) with the units from the first two volumes of the Recognition Guides. We have availability for the Dominator and the Sojourner for example.

Brand new units: sometimes. Existing units like the Coyotl and still listed as Extinct. We need to go through all of the old units and look for the changes.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 24 August 2020, 14:44:23
Units like the Coyotl weren't resurrected in the Recognition Guides, they were in TRO: Golden Century, which has not been incorporated into the MUL yet.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 24 August 2020, 15:17:53
Brand new units: sometimes. Existing units like the Coyotl and still listed as Extinct. We need to go through all of the old units and look for the changes.

The Ostscout 8J is a brand new unit. I don't want to argue or bother. I just want to support the project. If the Recognition Guide units availability in the MUL is not
yet open to review just say so and I will wait until the MUL team is ready. It's a great resource and I just want to contribute.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 24 August 2020, 16:13:25
The Behemoth was already changed.
Jan is taking about longer term projects, they need to be done but don’t mean we are not dealing with any issues with the Recognition Guides now.

Ostscout I need to check with the RG developer and haven’t even reached out to him about it yet. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 28 August 2020, 15:37:32
Thank you, Wierdo. Wrong book on my part.

Nckestrel is correct.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 29 August 2020, 14:09:22
Regarding the Shadow Cat III, the fluff suggests that the 'Mech is used by Clan Sea Fox.
Should they be added as one of the Dark Age factions the unit is available to?

EDIT: also, a small thing I noticed, if it matters: the new BattleMaster variants introduced in RecGuide 3 (EG: -6C, -6G, etc) appear to use a version of the art without any shadowing, while older classic variants that were up before the RecGuide came out (eg: -1G, -3S, etc) use the same art with shadowing.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 29 August 2020, 14:31:42
Speaking of BattleMasters, the new BattleMaster C 3 is listed as available to Nova Cats, who are dead by the 'Mech's introduction date.
Unless the intent is that Nova Cat faction also represents those remnants who joined the Clan Protectorate? Or perhaps the Beemer's introduction date should be considerably earlier?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7477/battlemaster-c-3
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MagnaMorbius on 31 August 2020, 04:31:45
The image for the Bushwacker from Recognition Guide 2 has not been updated yet; can one of the MUL administrators please update it so that I can generate Alpha Strike cards with the gorgeous new artwork, please?

Thanky!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 04 September 2020, 17:35:41
The Zeus ZEU-11S is showing a BV of 1957 on the MUL.  The Recognition Guide Volume 2 record sheet shows that it should be 2280.  Building it in MML also gets me to 2280.


Xotl: fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 08 September 2020, 21:03:21
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7453/urbanmech-um-r96

Listed as 35 tons when it should be 30

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2368/ostscout-ott-7k
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1291/grendel-mongrel-f

Should get the RG 2 source tag
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 10 September 2020, 20:14:26
The MUL has been updated to properly return .5 tonnage values, for units such as Heavy Battle Armor.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: BaldDen on 25 September 2020, 15:56:07
When to wait in MUL data from Recognition Guide: ilClan Vol. Five and Six?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 01 October 2020, 14:26:24
When to wait in MUL data from Recognition Guide: ilClan Vol. Five and Six?

I'm sure the MUL team is working on Rec Guides 5 and 6.  I don't know if the moratorium period needs to pass before they post those two volumes.  Moratorium on Vol 5 has passed, but Vol 6 wont be out of the blackout period until October 9th.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: BaldDen on 01 October 2020, 14:31:35
I'm sure the MUL team is working on Rec Guides 5 and 6.  I don't know if the moratorium period needs to pass before they post those two volumes.  Moratorium on Vol 5 has passed, but Vol 6 wont be out of the blackout period until October 9th.
Other volumes did not have a moratorium period. why 5 and 6 have it?
MUL an official product? No?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 01 October 2020, 15:06:29
The other volumes did indeed have a moratorium.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 01 October 2020, 15:27:26
There is no moratorium.  It's purely a matter of I'm busy elsewhere.

There was briefly a motatorium when the first volume or two was released, and then the decision was made to not have one.  5 and 6 are not up because the work hasn't been done.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 01 October 2020, 17:29:54
I sit corrected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 02 October 2020, 10:09:14
I sit corrected.

I too sit corrected, in a wonky office chair that is killing my lower back.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: BaldDen on 02 October 2020, 14:14:01
nckestrel, Weirdo

thanks for your works :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: DelevanGuardsCO on 04 October 2020, 17:39:38
There is no moratorium.  It's purely a matter of I'm busy elsewhere.

There was briefly a motatorium when the first volume or two was released, and then the decision was made to not have one.  5 and 6 are not up because the work hasn't been done.

While not related to new stuff coming out. Any chance we can get prices on the MUL for Aerospace units (Fighters, Dropships, Jumpships etc.)?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: XanKortal on 05 October 2020, 16:52:36
I'm aware that the RATs are not hard canon, and are more game aids, but I also know it's been said they were good estimations for what an average force would typically look like.
Therefore: would units appearing on a faction's RAT table from a Field Manual justify including that unit in a factions availability list in the MUL?


A few examples from FM:3145 :
Wusun (Fed Suns pg234, Hell's Horses pg236, Jade Falcon pg236, Sea Fox pg237, Wolf pg237, Rasalhague pg238)
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5423/wusun-base
Night Wolf (Hell's Horses pg218, Jade Falcon pg218)
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2273/night-wolf-standard
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 06 October 2020, 15:04:20
PROBLEM: The Prefect -3R currently has an introductory date of 3110, but the design carried a radical heat sink, which has an introductory date of 3122 (p.42, IntOps)

FIX: Move introductory date for the Prefect to 3122.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 09 October 2020, 22:05:26
Just spotted this—the four BattleMechs from OTP:Fronc Reaches are missing from the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Dragon41673 on 17 October 2020, 22:00:25
Wild question...

What would it take to get the Fidelis listed as a selectable Faction, and their units listed?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 October 2020, 22:16:14
If my kickstarter rewards arrive tommorrow, I will add the Fidelis.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Dragon41673 on 17 October 2020, 22:17:59
If my kickstarter rewards arrive tommorrow, I will add the Fidelis.

Dude...tell me where it is and I'll intercept it...drive it up to you, and go back home so you can work! LOL

Thanks nckestrel. Hopefully they get added, it would be nice to see them in there as well as a couple other units, but definitely the Fidelis.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Frabby on 30 October 2020, 04:30:30
Trojan class DropShip (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5300/trojan-blockade-runner)

Problem 1: This arguably shouldn't be a class unto its own given that Trojan basically means "up-gunned Danais", to the point where there are no hard stats for the Trojan. The stats given are merely those of a "typical" Trojan refit.

Problem 2: The introduction date is given in the MUL as 2720. That can't be right: The Trojan derives from the Danais, and the Danais has an intro date of 2728 according to the MUL (which seems to be correct; the fluff in Jihad Secrets p. 153 states it was designed in the late 2720s). It follows that the intro date for the Trojan must be after 2728.
(The record sheets for both vessels in Jihad Secrets p. 167, 168 state "Tech Base: Inner Sphere 2720")
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 12 November 2020, 12:24:52
Question regarding the Introductory date for the Nova (Black Hawk): http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/342/black-hawk-nova-prime

The TRO gives it an introductory date of 2870, and states that it "...made its battlefield debut during the assault on Kindraa Smythe-Jewel on Foster."

The battle on Foster, however, occurred in 2872. Should its introductory date be moved forward by two years?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Frantic Pryde on 19 November 2020, 22:59:16
Thor II D has the “JMPS1” ability on it’s AS card and Thor II E does not. Pretty sure that’s mixed up :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 19 November 2020, 23:03:10
Question regarding the Introductory date for the Nova (Black Hawk): http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/342/black-hawk-nova-prime

The TRO gives it an introductory date of 2870, and states that it "...made its battlefield debut during the assault on Kindraa Smythe-Jewel on Foster."

The battle on Foster, however, occurred in 2872. Should its introductory date be moved forward by two years?

The same TRO page, in the overview, says it was produced in 2870.  Apparently it managed to go two years without being in a battle.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 20 November 2020, 00:34:38
The same TRO page, in the overview, says it was produced in 2870.  Apparently it managed to go two years without being in a battle.

Yeah, that's the reason I brought it up. I was wondering if there had been any internal thought about changing its intro date to 2872, or if the consensus was that the Horses were hoarding them for two years. It's fine by me either way, but it is something that jumped out at me as being a bit unusual and worth bringing up.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: rjhancock on 25 November 2020, 09:27:34
Images for the following units are missing as of Nov 25, 2020

Archer   ARC-7S
Archer   ARC-9K
Archer   ARC-9W
Marauder   MAD-6L
Marauder IIC   3
Marauder IIC   7
Rifleman   RFL-6D
Rifleman   RFL-9T
Rifleman II   RFL-3N-2
Stinger   STG-3Gb
Stinger   STG-5G
Stinger   STG-5M
Stinger   STG-5T
Valkyrie   VLK-QD4
Aquilla Transport Jumpship   (Standard)
Ibex RV   (Militarized; Gauss)
Ibex RV   (Militarized; MG)
Ibex RV   (Standard)
Standard Infantry Outpost   (All Eras)
Fortified Infantry Bunker   (Age of War)
Fortified Infantry Bunker   (Clan Invasion)
Fortified Infantry Outpost   (FedCom Civil War)
Shikra   SKR-4M
Caerleon   (Standard)
Gorgon Carrier   (Standard)
Rifleman II   RFL-3N-2 (Kataga)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 05 December 2020, 13:08:31
Since I know people have been patiently waiting for them, RecGuides 5 and 6 are now live on the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 06 December 2020, 18:16:42
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1985/mad-cat-timber-wolf-prime

Mad Cat (Timberwolf) should be added to clan Hell's Horse in the Dark age Since according to Ilclan RG 5 they produce it on Weingarten( Taken when the Wolves relocated).

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1473/hellhound-conjurer-standard

The vanilla Conjurer should be added to the Wolves in the Dark age since they produce it on Thermopolis. This  variant is specifically mentioned ("The Wolves Chose to focus on the original layout as well as...")
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 07 December 2020, 11:46:03
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1985/mad-cat-timber-wolf-prime

Mad Cat (Timberwolf) should be added to clan Hell's Horse in the Dark age Since according to Ilclan RG 5 they produce it on Weingarten( Taken when the Wolves relocated).

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1473/hellhound-conjurer-standard

The vanilla Conjurer should be added to the Wolves in the Dark age since they produce it on Thermopolis. This  variant is specifically mentioned ("The Wolves Chose to focus on the original layout as well as...")

Thanks, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 07 December 2020, 13:26:54
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4182/fox-standard

The Fox battlemech entry should be updated with info from Technical Readout: Golden Century
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 07 December 2020, 13:57:06
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4182/fox-standard

The Fox battlemech entry should be updated with info from Technical Readout: Golden Century

TR:Golden Century is currently in process, but thanks for keeping your eyes peeled for missing info!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pixelgeek on 07 December 2020, 14:02:44
Would it be possible to get some more AS friendly data presented when you are looking at mech variants?

For instance, this list of Banshees

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=banshee&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=

has an option to add a unit to a force but I personally find that none of the info presented makes it useful for me to determine which variant I want to add.

So things like Role, TMM, Size etc would be great

Ditto with the list on the Force Builder page
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pixelgeek on 07 December 2020, 14:03:15
Are there any plans to add some more data to the Force PDF page?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 07 December 2020, 14:07:36
Since I know people have been patiently waiting for them, RecGuides 5 and 6 are now live on the MUL.

Hurrah!  Thank you sir for the tip!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Valkerie on 11 December 2020, 10:50:56
Pretty sure the Locust C has a typo on its card.  That, or it had steroids for breakfast.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7601/locust-c (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7601/locust-c)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 December 2020, 11:35:29
Pretty sure the Locust C has a typo on its card.  That, or it had steroids for breakfast.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7601/locust-c (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7601/locust-c)

Could you be a little more specific please?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 11 December 2020, 12:03:07
Could you be a little more specific please?

it's been fixed. it had a short range damage of 20  :D
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Valkerie on 11 December 2020, 13:55:08
it's been fixed. it had a short range damage of 20  :D
Apologies for not stating that.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 14 December 2020, 11:55:33
I see that the MUL was updated with Recognition Guides 7 and 8! Thanks for the great work!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 December 2020, 12:54:52
Speaking of which, Sartris and Greekfire have joined the Master Unit List team.  They are getting things done faster than we can acknowledge their status.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 December 2020, 14:05:47
i promise to almost never use my powers for evil
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 14 December 2020, 15:45:36
According to Rec Guide 1 there are still Griffin -3M, -1DS and -2N models around in the current era but not according to the MUL?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 December 2020, 15:54:15
They’re part of a very large pool of units (1100+ mechs alone) that have not been assigned any late republic or dark age availability. Very large undertaking
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 14 December 2020, 16:16:41
They’re part of a very large pool of units (1100+ mechs alone) that have not been assigned any late republic or dark age availability. Very large undertaking

Cheers for the quick answer only wondered as the only Griffin using the new plastic mechs from the rec guide for mercenary's seems to be the -3M (at least from reading it) as we don't get access to the C or -3N.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nahuris on 14 December 2020, 17:31:01
Was wondering if we can get some IS General generic infantry with field guns added to the MUL?
I try to stay faction specific, and right now, the ONLY field gun unit is the Taurian one with the 6 light AC/5's... but every faction should have something.
So, is it possible to get some generic units added with AC/2's, AC/5's, AC/10's and maybe available LBX or Ultra Variants?

Nahuris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 14 December 2020, 17:51:45
Remember, the MUL only lists units that are already found elsewhere. You want field gun units(or literally anything else), you gotta push for them to show up in a book first.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 December 2020, 21:56:00
Cheers for the quick answer only wondered as the only Griffin using the new plastic mechs from the rec guide for mercenary's seems to be the -3M (at least from reading it) as we don't get access to the C or -3N.

quick general rule - if an era doesn't appear, we just haven't gotten to entering the data yet
(http://puu.sh/GXDoT/648a74df26.png)

something that's genuinely extinct and unavailable looks like this
(http://puu.sh/GXDrB/5a80a237fe.png)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nahuris on 15 December 2020, 00:15:50
Remember, the MUL only lists units that are already found elsewhere. You want field gun units(or literally anything else), you gotta push for them to show up in a book first.

On that note, when can we get the BLO units from Spotlight on Unending Faith?

Nahuris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 December 2020, 00:45:46
data entered pending alpha strike stats
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kharn01 on 17 December 2020, 05:31:24
Hi,

I see you integrated the BoT Mechs but please look at the Hellbringer M statline. They differ in Damagevalue and Pointcosts.


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 December 2020, 07:00:00
Hi,

I see you integrated the BoT Mechs but please look at the Hellbringer M statline. They differ in Damagevalue and Pointcosts.

The MUL is showing the correct stats. I made an error converting for the book.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 17 December 2020, 21:06:15
TR:Golden Century is now up on the MUL!

In addition, Sartris has done a ton of fantastic work cleaning up and standardizing the images for each product and unit. Keep in mind that it's still a work in progress, though, so hold back before reporting any image changes that you feel might be incorrect (unless you see something that's blatantly broken, of course).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 17 December 2020, 21:16:54
blatantly wrong units, yes please report. pretty sure during whatever manic state i entered, there were at least a few minutes where the vulture iii and iv were flip-flopped. after 3500+ edits and 20k+ mouse clicks, at least a few mistakes were made.

if you feel i have the wrong version of a unit up (project phoenix vs 3085 phoenix, for example), PM me and i'll take it under advisement. keep in mind that i literally answer to a higher power on these choices so while i may crash around my enclosure like a chimp on too many fermented berries, i do have to follow the rules and clean up after myself
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 18 December 2020, 02:08:50
The Lupus D has an availability listing for all eras from the Clan Invasion to the Dark Age.

Problem: The Lupus D was only introduced in the Dark Age (3147)

Solution: Remove all availability listings prior to the Dark Age
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 18 December 2020, 02:13:22
Fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 18 December 2020, 05:58:54
Great work in TRO: GC!
Kokou and Kokou XL: The pages do not exist
Some of the designs don't have availability after the Jihad era. Should we report it?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 18 December 2020, 06:50:53
If they’re strictly available home clans, we don’t plot out past the jihad
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 20 December 2020, 05:15:53
Howler (Standard) MUL lists it as only available to Clan Jade Falcon post Jihad, but rec guide 8 has the following - The Jade Falcons remain the most prominent Howler users in the Inner Sphere, but the Raven Alliance also makes extensive use of them for garrison duty.

The entry then goes on to give the most recent combat to feature the Howler as a Garrison Star of them destroying a DCMS Medium Lance involved in a Company sized intelligence raid on an Alliance world.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 20 December 2020, 16:46:57
could have sworn that made my notes... will look into it

Edit: It was determined in the assignment process that the RecGuide also references the phoenix versions - the ravens are the exclusive users of the 2 and 3.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 20 December 2020, 17:56:47
To offer my take on things, why would the Ravens spend their limited funds importing the Howler when their natively-produced ProtoMechs (or even older Alliance BattleMechs/vehicles) could already largely fill the same roles.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 21 December 2020, 13:04:39
Blackjack BJ-4:  Old art

I noticed all the other Blackjacks are using the new line art from the kickstarter:  thank you for updating the art on the MUL!

However, I believe that the BJ-4 was just an upgrade of older Blackjacks.  It is still using the old art.  If all the 'older' Blackjacks are using the new art, the BJ-4 should probably be using it as well?  Not 100% sure on this, but think it holds true.

Best,

Mad
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 21 December 2020, 13:23:31
Definitely falls under “I did all 3500 at once and missed a few”  :))

Thanks for finding that one. I assume there are some others
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 21 December 2020, 13:31:57
Definitely falls under “I did all 3500 at once and missed a few”  :))

Thanks for finding that one. I assume there are some others

Just checked all the mechs from the '3 mech panel page' on the Rec Guides.  That was the lone hold out that I found.  Good work sirs!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 21 December 2020, 17:00:25
All the BLO omni configurations from Spotlight On: Unending Faith are listed as unique. These are Blesses Order exclusive bit I don't
think they are really one of a kind.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 21 December 2020, 17:10:49
All the BLO omni configurations from Spotlight On: Unending Faith are listed as unique. These are Blesses Order exclusive bit I don't
think they are really one of a kind.

The Blessed Order is really small.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 22 December 2020, 13:58:39
Based off of:
-The Raven's heavy use of Omni units in their second-line formations,
-The Raven's use of Triads for said formations (leaving only 25 BattleMechs per Cluster), and
-The losses suffered immediately after their exodus from the Homeworlds as detailed in Field Report: The Clans,

Not sure about the thoughts there, as of FM:3145 the Ravens six second line clusters have a combined omni rating of 0%

Of the twelve front line cluster only one is 100% omni, two are in the 60's and three are in the 50's percentage wise, with the other six being in the 40's or 30's.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 22 December 2020, 14:22:08
Not sure about the thoughts there, as of FM:3145 the Ravens six second line clusters have a combined omni rating of 0%

Of the twelve front line cluster only one is 100% omni, two are in the 60's and three are in the 50's percentage wise, with the other six being in the 40's or 30's.

This isn't really MUL talk, so I'll bring it over to the Raven thread if you want to keep talking about this.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 22 December 2020, 14:43:57
Isn't the entire point of the MUL that we aren't theoretically building entire faction militaries to determine exact numbers of units? ???
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 22 December 2020, 15:14:56
I'm simply using it as guidance and not hard and inviolable fact.
But I can see that it's distracted from the purpose of the thread. I'll remove it from my post and ask for a refocus towards feedback for the MUL itself.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 23 December 2020, 15:35:57
Rec Guide 1, Hellbringer (Loki), combat example of the design being used by the CCAF against Davion mercs during the dark age era, design not present on the Capellan section of the MUL for that era.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 24 December 2020, 08:55:02
Rec Guide 1, Hellbringer (Loki), combat example of the design being used by the CCAF against Davion mercs during the dark age era, design not present on the Capellan section of the MUL for that era.

This is under investigation
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 24 December 2020, 18:06:25
Looking for Rec Guide 9 in the sources section of the MUL but not showing on the list of sources.

Although searching for individual units EG the Valkyrie does show the RG9 units and the book as the source.

Rec Guide 9 Vapor Eagle 6 according to pdf is built on Dante in the Raven Alliance for the Alliance but is listed on the MUL as Jade Falcon exclusive.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 24 December 2020, 20:31:35
Rec Guide 9 Vapor Eagle 6 according to pdf is built on Dante in the Raven Alliance for the Alliance but is listed on the MUL as Jade Falcon exclusive.

I see a reference to the Ravens building a "version capable of providing indirect fire support for the Alliance’s conventional forces". Based off of the record sheets in my version of the product, that would be the 5 (equipped with an LRM-20). The 6 is the version with twin UAC/2s instead.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Mendrugo on 24 December 2020, 21:29:09
The Ravens make both the 5 and 6.  What the Falcons have is left over isorla from the Steel Vipers.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 25 December 2020, 07:23:17
We had initially set the Thunder Stallion 4 from Shrapnel #3 as an Arc Royal production variant with the first runs coming off the line in 3148-3149 for Wolf in Exile, the Kell Hounds, Lyrans, and Mercs. Post-review, GreekFire noted the unpleasant fact that the Falcons had taken control of the planet in 3146 while the line was still under construction. Since Shattered Fortress makes no mention of Wolf in Exile sabotage of their facilities during the retreat nor the Falcons targeting them, it was determined that the Falcon tech caste would have put the finishing touches on the line in time for its production debut. The CHH line on Csesztreg remains unchanged.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 25 December 2020, 09:41:00
Inferno OR config lacks availability.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7719/inferno-inf-nor
Should be Davion
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 26 December 2020, 13:26:23
The Ravens make both the 5 and 6.  What the Falcons have is left over isorla from the Steel Vipers.

Thanks for the authorial input! I've adjusted things accordingly.

Inferno OR config lacks availability.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7719/inferno-inf-nor
Should be Davion

Good catch, fixed!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 02 January 2021, 19:25:25
ICRG vol 10
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/72/archer-wolf

Archer (Wolf) is available to Wolfs Dragoons Kell Hounds and Wolves in exile but as far as I know it's a unique design, Jaime Wolf personal customized design.

Another question is  the Highlander 740. It's a design produced in the near Lyran periphery yet it's available to the Capellan Confederation. is it a mistake or are they buying it from StarCorps?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 January 2021, 20:57:17
Sometimes people’s custom rides get adopted as either production variants or common refit

Re: the highlander - son hoa gains independence around the turn of the 32nd century and sells to anyone with cash
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 02 January 2021, 23:53:33
Vulture (Mad Dog) V:

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7729/vulture-mad-dog-v

Just a little thing, the introduction date for the Vulture (Mad Dog) V reads "309". Thanks!

S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 03 January 2021, 00:39:48
Vulture (Mad Dog) V:

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7729/vulture-mad-dog-v

Just a little thing, the introduction date for the Vulture (Mad Dog) V reads "309". Thanks!

S.gage

Thanks for the catch! It's been fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 10 January 2021, 12:21:37
Shouldn't the Phoenix Hawk PXH-1 be listed as intro tech like the -1D and -1K instead of Standard which it currently is?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 10 January 2021, 12:28:46
That is an odd one... will confer
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 10 January 2021, 12:29:33
Shouldn't the Phoenix Hawk PXH-1 be listed as intro tech like the -1D and -1K instead of Standard which it currently is?

It should, yeah. Fixed!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 15 January 2021, 12:49:05
Hi guys, I've been going down the rabbit hole of TROs and the like for fun, and think I've come across some errata. Here are the ones I am most sure about:

1. These units are introduced after 3061 so should not be available in Clan Invasion era:
Wasp 4W (3065): http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7497/wasp-wsp-4w
Commando 4H (3062): http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/673/commando-com-4h
Assassin 30 (3062): http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/129/assassin-asn-30

2. I think the intro year for the ENF-6Ma Enforcer III variant might be a typo (should be 3067 instead of 3076?) Record Sheets-3085 list it as introduced in Civil War era:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/983/enforcer-iii-enf-6ma

3. PXH-HK2 P-Hawk LAM: delete "Extinct" from Civil War era? (has both "Extinct" available to WoB during era)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4822/phoenix-hawk-lam-phx-hk2

4. Maybe you haven't gotten to it yet, but the SHD-2Ht Shadow Hawk variant from BoT doesn't have an entry yet.

5. Don't know if this is a known issue, but Comstar and WoB use the "All-Inner Sphere" lists for Clan Invasion, Civil War, and Jihad eras. This ends up giving them availability to a bunch of Succession War-era variants they likely shouldn't have access to (i.e., Intro-level tech variants introduced after the fall of the Star League, and therefore not in Comstar's stockpile). For an example, you can compare the older Locusts Comstar has in Late SW (renaissance) vs. Clan Invasion:
Late SW, only has the LCT-1V: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=18&EraId=256
Clan Invasion, has the upgraded LCT-3M, but also now the older LCT-1E and LCT-3V: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=18&EraId=13

6. I went down a long rabbit hole researching when the Clan's Advanced Tac Missiles came online. They first appeared in FM: Warden Clans, so back when I was last playing (around 2000), I had thought of them as coming online around 3060, but all sources since cite them as online in 3054. From what I can figure out, the ATM's come online in 3054 but only a handful of Omni configs use them prior to the intro of the Savage Coyote (3059). These are the Ryoken E, Loki C, and Fire Falcon E (according to FM: Warden Clans). If I'm interpreting things correctly, that would mean the following Omni configurations should have an intro date of 3059/3060 instead of 3054:
Dasher E
Koshi E
Uller E
Dragonfly E
Fenris E
Black Hawk E
Vulture D
Thor E
Mad Cat E
Masakari D
Daishi C


I also found a bunch of others related to availability, but I am less sure about these (I have references suggesting they are errata, but there might be other sources I missed saying otherwise). I can list those in another post, but I didn't want to flood the thread with them unless you guys would find it useful. I think the majority are related to availabilities based on Historical: War of 3039 and the new Battle of Tukayyid supplement.


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 January 2021, 13:05:55
some of these will require more discussion than others

1. sometimes units are developed in other eras and don't really see the light of day until later. not saying that's true with these, but it's worth kicking up the line to be sure

2. likely a typo

3. definitely a mistake. fixed

4. seems like an accidental omission as it's not even in our view

5. they had other methods of acquisition besides star league stockpiles. wob, for example, could have found some used LCT-1Es for sale or picked them off dead mercs in the chaos march that gave them a more significant quantity than before. they were actively trying to build the protectorate militia at that point. ComStar had to adjust after losing terra and was getting a lot of equipment from all over

6. worth investigation

thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 15 January 2021, 13:38:37
I've fixed the 'Mechs mentioned in point one; all three of those were mistakes. I'll tackle point four in just a few minutes.

As for point six, the direct quote is "...it (the ATM) was employed on a number of existing chassis during the weapon's testing period. Three of the most successful configurations..." That quote gives enough wiggle room for more OmniMechs to have ATM configurations prior to the Savage Coyote's debut. Those configs could be considered testbeds that would later reach widespread acceptance.

As for the availability things you might have found, you can always PM one of us (or post it in this thread, both are fine) and we'll take a look at things from there. But don't be shy to post things that you're unsure about! It's always helpful.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 15 January 2021, 19:29:07
As for point six, the direct quote is "...it (the ATM) was employed on a number of existing chassis during the weapon's testing period. Three of the most successful configurations..." That quote gives enough wiggle room for more OmniMechs to have ATM configurations prior to the Savage Coyote's debut. Those configs could be considered testbeds that would later reach widespread acceptance.

That makes sense, thanks, especially since it's pretty much confined to the TR3050 models.
 

As for the availability things you might have found, you can always PM one of us (or post it in this thread, both are fine) and we'll take a look at things from there. But don't be shy to post things that you're unsure about! It's always helpful.

Ok, I'll try to organize what I have so it's easier to go through and post soon!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 17 January 2021, 18:17:14
Ok, so here are the most of the remaining potential errata I have for 'Mechs. It's all pretty much for Jihad-era and earlier availabilities. I've tried to group them based on similar issues.

Comstar/WOB stuff based on Battle of Tukayyid - Supplemental lists (pp. 12-13)
1. Based on this source, Comstar (and also WoB from Clan Invasion forward?) should have the following 'Mechs available in Late SW (renaissance), Clan Invasion, and likely Civil War and Jihad, too:
PNT-8Z Panther: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2424/panther-pnt-8z
SHD-2Hb Shadow Hawk: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2902/shadow-hawk-shd-2hb
WVR-7M Wolverine: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3576/wolverine-wvr-7m   [Clan Invasion, Civil War, and Jihad only, and WoB already has it available]
CPLT-C1b Catapult: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/480/catapult-cplt-c1b

2. JKR-8T Jackrabbit: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1656/jackrabbit-jkr-8t
TR3075 fluff suggests Comstar should have it for Late SW (renaissance) and Clan Invasion eras. ["ComStar inherited these when they captured Terra, but they used the Jackrabbit sparingly. The few that were deployed on Tukayyid fared poorly against the Clans,..."]

3. HSR-500-D Hussar: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1656/jackrabbit-jkr-8t
Pretty sure TR3050U has a typo and it is referring to the 500-D when it says the "600-D" (which doesn't exist) "has only been seen among WoB forces," Comstar should not have access to this variant (previous paragraph notes they use the 200-D and 400-D variants)


The next set of issues all relate to what's in the RAT tables in Historical: War of 3039 for the Draconis Combine. Not sure if any of this is still correct or was retcon'ed. I always remember the lore to be that Comstar gave Kurita mostly downgraded 'Mechs with a few accidental/overlooked exceptions, but the RATs in that book definitely have more than a few LosTech variants.
4. The following are available to the Draconis Combine in the Clan Invasion and Civil War eras but not the Late SW (renaissance) era (i.e. during the War of 3039). If the first two are correct, then Hist:Wo3039 suggests they should have them available in the Late SW (renaissance) era, too:
HSR-200-D Hussar: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1585/hussar-hsr-200-d
CHP-1N Champion: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/548/champion-chp-1n
LNC25-01 Lancelot: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1853/lancelot-lnc25-01
EXT-4D Exterminator: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1004/exterminator-ext-4d
GLT-3N Guillotine: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1338/guillotine-glt-3n
BL-6-KNT Black Knight: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/358/black-knight-bl-6-knt
BLR-2C Battlemaster: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/290/battlemaster-blr-2c
(this one actually comes from the Battlemaster fluff in RecGuide vol. 3 and in the original TR3050. Former lists it as Theodore Kurita's Wo3039 'Mech and latter list it as a Comstar logistical screw-up)

5. These two are not available to Kurita at all in the MUL, but based on Historical: War of 3039, they should have them at least in Late SW (renaissance), and likely in the next couple eras, too.
MCY-98 Mercury: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4624/mercury-mcy-98
MON-66 Mongoose: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2208/mongoose-mon-66

6. The WVN-5N Wyvern is also available to Kurita based on Historical: War of 3039, but is not available to them in either the Late SW (renaissance) or Clan Invasion eras. Based on this, it should be. It should probably also be available to Comstar in Early SW, Late SW (LosTech), and Late SW (renaissance) since it's the stock SLDF variant (and they're the ones who gave it to Kurita...)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3597/wyvern-wve-5n

7. HGN-732 Highlander: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1514/highlander-hgn-732
This one is available to Kurita in Late SW (renaissance), but not after. I didn't see anything to suggest that Kurita lost all of its Highlanders before the Clan Invasion, so it probably should be available in later eras like the other Comstar-supplied 'Mechs. Multiple sources suggest that the Late SW era availability is correct [Historical: War of 3039, TR3050U fluff, TR3039 fluff for Thug 10E]

8. STK-3K Sentinel: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2857/sentinel-stn-3k
Kurita has this variant available in the MUL from the end of the Star League throughout, but Historical: War of 3039 and Sentinel 3K fluff in TR3039 suggest that Kurita received both the -3K and -3M models as a new influx of the variant from Comstar, and only a handful existed in entire IS otherwise (presumably from Steiner production?)

9. I honestly cannot figure out if Kurita should have the CRB-27 Crab variant from 3035 forward (currently only has it from Clan Invasion forward): http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/716/crab-crb-27
It is not in the RAT tables in Historical: War of 3039, but... original TR3050 Crab fluff suggests the only difference between the SLDF CRB-27 and what was given to Kurita is comms equipment (so identical in game terms), and... TR3050U Crab fluff suggests that the Kurita variants (along with Clan, Comstar, and WoB) are from the original SLDF production runs. So maybe they should?

The next bunch are to give the St. Ives Compact availability some love. I'm wondering if a lot of these got lost because they only RAT I could find for them is merged into the RAT table for Liao in FM: Capellan Confederation, and they have no listing of their own in Combat Ops.
10. Based on the RAT table in FM: Capellan Confederation, SIC should have the following 'Mechs available in the Clan Invasion and Civil War eras:
CTX-3D Cataphract: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/469/cataphract-ctf-3d
STR-3C Striker: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3094/striker-stc-2c   [correctly has it available in Late SW (renaissance)]
STR-3D Striker: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3095/striker-stc-2d
AS7-S Atlas: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/148/atlas-as7-s
AS7-K Atlas: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/144/atlas-as7-k
DVS-2 Devastator: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/894/devastator-dvs-2  [might also want to remove availability for Liao in Clan Invasion era. Only DVS-2s they should have are the ones they inherit from SIC after 3063?]

11. CRD-4D Crusader: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/755/crusader-crd-4d  (or CRD-4L)
There isn't a source to justify this one, but the CRD-4D and CRD-4L are identical variants, but use field refit kits, and SIC is bordered by both factions, so it would make sense they'd have one of these available in the Clan Invasion and Civil War eras (most likely the CRD-4D variant given their trade relations with FedCom)

Ok, that's probably enough for now! I have one more (much smaller) batch, but I'll wait to see what you guys say for these before posting those, since they have some gray areas in availability like some of the Mechs above.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 17 January 2021, 20:04:46
That's a ton of stuff! Thanks for finding all of these things for us to mull over.
I'm going to offer my perspective on things in sections.


NOT AN ERROR/FIXED
1. -- see below.

2. -- the very sparse and brief usage of the design on Tukayyid isn't enough to warrant era availability. As there's no "cached" label on the MUL, extinct in this case simply represents them being in storage and not being in use.

3. -- Hussar 500-D availabilities have been adjusted.

4. -- The Exterminator, Guillotine, and BattleMaster have been adjusted. The others remain untouched. Kong Interstellar, though only restarting manufacturing of the Black Knight BL-6 in 3065, did provide refits to bring BL-7's back to their original Star League standards (as per HB:HM).

5. -- The Mercury hasn't had its LSW eras detailed yet, but it is on our to-do list. The Mongoose is fine as-is; its numbers at the time weren't high enough to warrant inclusion on the MUL.

6. -- The numbers of Wyvern 5N's within the DC weren't high enough to warrant inclusion on the MUL up until resumption of production on Errai (and the DC purchasing of said machines) during the Civil War era.

7. -- this is due to proportions, unfortunately. The Ghost Regiments fielded "relatively few" and "a handful", which then became an insignificant number due to the large numbers pumped out by StarCorps starting in 3057. The Combine, for whatever reason, apparently chose not to buy further models at that time.

8. -- As you noted, a handful did exist in the IS before the influx of ComStar Sentinels. This handful would have been split between the LC and the DC, which is why it is available to them before ComStar gifts their horde of machines.

9. -- Crab 27 should be available to the DC in the LSW-R era. Availabilities for the other eras are correct.

10. -- The SIC did even better than the Liaos and the Davions: they managed to get their hands on the vastly superior mass-produced CRD-5M.

11. -- These will not be adjusted. Devastators found in Capellan forces are largely the result of salvage, and from my research are likely a nod to the McCaron's Armored Cavalry sourcebook.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 18 January 2021, 01:13:46
I would note that units like the Wyvern 5N and others that completely lack Late Succession Wars Availabilities have not been given any because they will also be allocated to the Home Clans (or declared extinct if they either did not go along on EXODUS or were scrapped / upgraded during the Golden Century). This process is ongoing.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 18 January 2021, 09:53:10
Thanks guys, this helps clarify things. Just so I have the Wyvern 5N right...

1. Pre-Clan Invasion Comstar availability is on the to-do list
2. WVE-5N produced at Errai from 3064 forward, concurrent with WVE-10N from 3065 forward
3. DC received too few WVE-5Ns to matter pre-3064

Also, is it right that if a faction is the only one to have a unit, and they only have a "handful," "few," etc., they are listed with the "Unique" tag, but if they only have a "handful" and someone else has more, they are not listed?

Finally, since we're on the Wyvern, I had one more for it on my remaining list. Should WoB have access to the WVE-10-N during the Civil War era? TR3050U suggests it's exclusive to Comstar, and WoB didn't take Errai until 3069.
WVE-10N: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3596/wyvern-wve-10n


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 18 January 2021, 10:04:30
Also, is it right that if a faction is the only one to have a unit, and they only have a "handful," "few," etc., they are listed with the "Unique" tag, but if they only have a "handful" and someone else has more, they are not listed?

the unique tag is for units that exist in very small numbers like XTRO prototypes or custom rides. on rare occasions, they may later be produced in greater numbers like Jaime Wolf's Archer. no listing does not preclude a unit from appearing in a certain faction, but it does not meet the standard of multiple examples in multiple formations. if simply having one put a unit on a faction's roster, virtually everything on the MUL would be on the General lists.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 18 January 2021, 12:14:38
Update: the Enforcer III 6Ma was in error. Its introductory date has been changed to 3065.
The Centurion 9-Da was simultaneously given the same introductory date as well.

Additionally, the Panther 8Z has been made available to ComStar during the Clan Invasion era. It can be assumed that they brought them out of a cache or units or refit 9Rs to its standards. However, these 8Zs are considered to have all been destroyed or refit to other standards by the Civil War era. The other Star League-era variants (the SHD-2Hb, WVR-7M, etc) were not fielded in large enough numbers to warrant inclusion on the MUL.

The other points are still in discussion.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 18 January 2021, 12:25:31
Ok, thanks! This all helps clarify things a lot.

Going back my original list for the #4 (War of 3039 DC availabilities), based on your guys' responses, you can ignore the issues for:
HSR-200-D Hussar -- (SLDF version, likely given in too small numbers to DC in 3030s, then bought from Coventry MW)
CHP-1N Champion -- (SLDF version, likely given in too small numbers to DC in 3030s, then bought from Bergen Ind)
LNC25-01 -- (SLDF version, likely given in too small numbers to DC in 3030s, then bought from Krupp AW, or even produced at LAW?)

But then, it isn't clear if the following are ok, or if DC should *not* have them from the Clan Invasion era forward. All three are also the original SLDF variants (and presumably given in too small numbers in the 3030s), and all three did not have their production restarted (only as different variants):
EXT-4D Exterminator -- I can't find anything about new production (and it isn't clear if the EXT-5E variant was a new production line or just a refit). Nothing in the TROs suggests Kallon Ind restarted production, either
GLT-3N Guillotine -- From what I can tell, only new production was for the GLT-5M in 3049   
BL-6-KNT Black Knight -- From what I can tell, only new production was for the BL-12-KNT in 3063 (Robinson), 3065 (Kong)

I think the BLR-2C may still be legit, though.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 18 January 2021, 13:00:18
Philiosphy question: If they're not on the MUL, do they "exist" in a canon way?  ???

To be clear, I have no dog in this fight, but I know there is more than one poster on this forum who only plays with "canon" units...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 18 January 2021, 13:12:08
The first line of canonicity is existing in a canon source. The MUL simply exists as a centralized index of canon units.

In order to be used as a canon unit in a game, it requires a published record sheet. There are obviously gaps between those two realities (eg 3150 NTNU). Regardless, they exist even if you can’t technically play a game with them - but that isn’t our mandate.

If someone thinks there is a unit missing from the MUL, it should be reported. You’ll notice there are some very specific one-offs like support vehicles mentioned in one FASA novel so there is no threshold for “too obscure”
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 18 January 2021, 13:17:35
Why don't you have a Battlemaster in this forum, good sir?  You certainly deserve one!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 18 January 2021, 14:05:11
Why don't you have a Battlemaster in this forum, good sir?  You certainly deserve one!  :thumbsup:
Should be more like a roomba icon. :P
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 18 January 2021, 14:10:10
If someone thinks there is a unit missing from the MUL, it should be reported. You’ll notice there are some very specific one-offs like support vehicles mentioned in one FASA novel so there is no threshold for “too obscure”
This reminds me...
Necromo Nightmare drone/robot 'Mechs, the Raven RVN-3Ld, Vindicator VND-3Ld, Cataphract CTF-3Dd and Awesome AWS-9Md.
I believe the product, despite being a Halloween freebie, is actually canon* and Necromo events and stuff is referred to elsewhere (like Interstellar Operations).

* https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Necromo_Nightmare
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ask-the-lead-developers/necromo-nightmare-canonicity/
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 18 January 2021, 20:38:19
Should be more like a roomba icon. :P

A nova cat on a roomba
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 18 January 2021, 20:50:48
A nova cat on a roomba
I was thinking a roomba with the Urbie's legs...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 19 January 2021, 09:47:19
Ok, here's the last of what I have. It's all pretty random.

1. FLE-4 Flea: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1140/flea-fle-4
Should probably be available to Wolf's Dragoons in LSW-R and Clan Invasion, according to the Wolf's Dragoons sourcebook (it has stats for both FLE-4 and FLE-15).

2. I think the ASN-21 Assassin should just use the IS-General list for the LSW-LT, LSW-R, and Clan Invasion eras (I'm assuming the deletion of Liao from Civil War and later is legit). The only faction missing over that period is SIC, and they probably should inherit some from Liao from 3030. Plus, Combat Ops has the ASN-21 listed as available to all in the IS and Periphery. Similarly, ASN-23 should probably be available to the IS General list for the Clan Invasion era and maybe the Civil War era. It's listed as such in Combat Ops, and TR3050U states that "the majority" of the ASN-23s are in the Trinity Alliance (in 3070), implying at least some others have them in notable numbers. It also suggests they are more common than the ASN-21 from the Civil War era forward, and that they really didn't start becoming a rare sight until 3058. They're also listed in the Comstar availability list in the Battle of Tukayyid-Supplemental,. Finally, it's like one of the easiest LosTech field refits out there, so would make sense that it'd be available to any IS faction that had a decent number of ASN-21s.
ASN-21 Assassin: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/127/assassin-asn-21
ASN-23 Assassin: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/128/assassin-asn-23

3. It looks like the Apollo-1M has its faction availability switched for some factions, based on the TR3055U fluff. It should be available to WoB in Clan Invasion and Civil War eras (#2 user behind the FWL, and #2 buyer until 3057), and it is embargoed for the LAAF (until 3067), AFFS (until 3067), and CCAF (ongoing). Since it comes out in 3054, though, it could have theoretically been sold to the AFFC from 3054-57, and to the CCAF from 3054 to the FWL-CC cooling of relations (3063?). But adding WoB seems needed either way. And if WoB is added to the -1M, perhaps it should also be added to the three field refits mentioned in TR3055U, too?
APL-1M Apollo: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/54/apollo-apl-1m
APL-1R Apollo: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/55/apollo-apl-1r
APL-2S Apollo: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/56/apollo-apl-2s
APL-3T Apollo: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/57/apollo-apl-3t

4. Should Kurita have the JM6-S JagerMech in the LSW-R era? TR3039 seems to imply they stopped producing it, but TR3050U (in the JM6-DD fluff) implies they continue production of the JM6-S from 3040-50: "Following the Fourth Succession War, Kallon Weapon Industries negotiated a licensing agreement that allowed Independence Weaponry on Quentin to also build new JagerMechs for the AFFS. Unfortunately, that world was lost to the Draconis Combine during the War of 3039, sending JagerMechs flowing into the rapidly expanding Kurita military." Not to mention, it seems odd that they would just shut down a production line because they don't like a model, not replace it with anything even though they have to replace war losses, then start producing its upgraded variant 10 years later.
JM6-S JagerMech: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1670/jagermech-jm6-s

5. Should WoB have the GRM-R-PR29 Grim Reaper in the Clan Invasion and Civil War eras? TR3055U suggests that both Comstar and WoB field them, and that WOB doesn't phase out the -PR29 variant until 3067. They are also in the WoB RAT tables in FM: Comstar
GRM-R-PR29 Grim Reaper: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1328/grim-reaper-grm-r-pr29

6. Finally(!), is the Lyran Alliance accidentally listed instead of the FRR for the DRG-7N Dragon in the Civil War and Jihad eras? I couldn't find a source to confirm, but I think the DRG-7N is a field refit, and all other Dragon variants (Intro-tech and LosTech) are available to DC and FRR, so it seems more likely that someone clicked the wrong blue faction icon than that I missed some one-off Steiner-Kurita tech exchange from the 3060s.
DRG-7N Dragon: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5450/dragon-drg-7n

Hope that helps, and thanks for all your work maintaining this thing!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 19 January 2021, 09:51:31
The DRG-7N being LC is intentional. It is based an computer game variant that was o my in Lyran use.  No clue why, how, etc has bender been made, but it’s definitely Lyran. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 19 January 2021, 12:28:40
1. -- The Dragoons lost their limited number of Flea 4s before their first and second supply run. These were replenished with the Flea 15, 16, and 17 models.

2. -- The MUL is good for showing availability, not so good at showing rarity. The ASN-23 outnumbered the ASN-21 by 3071, but those were concentrated in the Trinity Alliance region due to the Capellan production of the design--while the few ASN-21s were scattered throughout the Sphere. As many of the ASN-21s were owned by MechWarrior families, these families didn't always have the funds or political clout to upgrade their designs before the end of the Jihad.

3. The Word of Blake should have it, definitely.

4. The fluff is clear on this matter as well. Fixed.

5. Ditto. The fluff supports significant Word of Blake usage. Fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 19 January 2021, 14:35:41
Very minor issue: Clan Burrock icon seems to have white background instead of transparent one.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 19 January 2021, 15:10:10
the wolverine logo was suffering from the same issue. both are now have transparent backgrounds exactly as the Great Father intended
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 19 January 2021, 16:37:52
1. -- The Dragoons lost their limited number of Flea 4s before their first and second supply run. These were replenished with the Flea 15, 16, and 17 models.

2. -- The MUL is good for showing availability, not so good at showing rarity. The ASN-23 outnumbered the ASN-21 by 3071, but those were concentrated in the Trinity Alliance region due to the Capellan production of the design--while the few ASN-21s were scattered throughout the Sphere. As many of the ASN-21s were owned by MechWarrior families, these families didn't always have the funds or political clout to upgrade their designs before the end of the Jihad.

3. The Word of Blake should have it, definitely.

4. The fluff is clear on this matter as well. Fixed.

5. Ditto. The fluff supports significant Word of Blake usage. Fixed.

Good to know!  :thumbsup:

The DRG-7N being LC is intentional. It is based an computer game variant that was o my in Lyran use.  No clue why, how, etc has bender been made, but it’s definitely Lyran.

I think I might call this one the "SturmDragon" variant from now on then.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 24 January 2021, 18:04:58
Julian's Templar III TLR2-J "Arthur" from Shattered Fortress is missing from MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 24 January 2021, 18:07:47
Does anyone have a page reference for it?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 24 January 2021, 18:16:58
Shattered Fortress has the record sheet on page 121 (PDF), ie the final page before cover. Doesn't have TRO-style entry.

EDIT Or is that 120? Don't think covers should count as pages.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 24 January 2021, 18:18:22
thanks. If it gives a description of any kind that distinguishes how it’s custom we copy the passage into the internal notes
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 24 January 2021, 18:21:48
thanks. If it gives a description of any kind that distinguishes how it’s custom we copy the passage into the internal notes
What, like that it is not an OmniMech (despite based on one) and sports cockpit command console among other stuff?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 24 January 2021, 18:31:05
Those count as important considerations, yes
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 25 January 2021, 10:42:08
all image links on the website (except 3085 infantry, which is on my list) should link to the MUL IMGBB account. please report any images you find that link to amazon aws.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 25 January 2021, 18:29:39
Horned Owl 6 and 7 have availability from early republic on. In the text blurb in the rec guide (pg6, rec guide 11) it says the 6 wasn’t put into production until 3132. I assume the 7 is similar as it mentions it being based on the same extra armor.

They both have proper introduction dates, just expanded availability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 25 January 2021, 18:33:51
Horned Owl 6 and 7 have availability from early republic on. In the text blurb in the rec guide (pg6, rec guide 11) it says the 6 wasn’t put into production until 3132. I assume the 7 is similar as it mentions it being based on the same extra armor.

They both have proper introduction dates, just expanded availability.

Thanks for pointing that out. Fixed!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 28 January 2021, 12:31:24
Missing 'Mechs report (unless this is already on your to-do list):
Thunderbolt TDR-5L, introduction date 2823.
Thunderbolt TDR-5LS, introduction date sometime before 2850.
Both are downgrades of the Royal Thunderbolt.
TRO-style entry in Second Succession War, page 116.
No record sheets exist.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 28 January 2021, 12:36:59
those were not on my list, at least. but they are now - along with some units from the house handbooks that still are missing

thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 28 January 2021, 12:54:21
Cheers!
Of course, i found more... again unless these are on your list.

Operation Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade 'Mechs, record sheets-only page 36 onward. And that book as a source.
Snow Fox Omni (Prime, A, B)
Cazador
Tolva
Rhino
Surtur SUR-T1
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 29 January 2021, 07:52:44
all image links on the website (except 3085 infantry, which is on my list) should link to the MUL IMGBB account. please report any images you find that link to amazon aws.
Rasalhague emblem is still amazon:
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/mul-images/Logos/Rasalhague_Dominion.png
EDIT Jade Falcon as well:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/cso-images/Faction/Clan-Jade-Falcon.gif
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 29 January 2021, 09:38:58
looks like the jade turkey icon didn't get uploaded with the rest. will have to remedy that later.

the thunderbolts are in. they're just going through the standard 48-72 waiting period to see if anyone catches any mistakes.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 30 January 2021, 15:39:03
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4123/elemental-ii-battle-armor-standard
The Elemental II has incorrect mass, it should be 1 ton. It got slimmed down from its prototype form, which does have correct mass in MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 30 January 2021, 16:01:03
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4123/elemental-ii-battle-armor-standard
The Elemental II has incorrect mass, it should be 1 ton. It got slimmed down from its prototype form, which does have correct mass in MUL.

Thanks, fixed!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 30 January 2021, 19:44:17
Bakeneko Doesn't have Dark Age era availability. Guess it should be DC and maybe Nova Cat as well.
Mongrel T2 I believe The Early Republic and Late Republic Availability  should be changed from Hell Horses to Ghost Bear who produce the design (WiE should remain unchanged)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 31 January 2021, 12:35:14
Bakeneko Doesn't have Dark Age era availability. Guess it should be DC and maybe Nova Cat as well.
Mongrel T2 I believe The Early Republic and Late Republic Availability  should be changed from Hell Horses to Ghost Bear who produce the design (WiE should remain unchanged)

The Bakeneko, along with any other 'Mechs missing Late Republic/Dark Age availabilities, is on our immediate to-do list.
It should gain those availabilities soon™.

The Mongrel is definitely in error. Fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 31 January 2021, 14:30:26
Bakeneko

*checks notes on Irece's condition after the second combine-dominion war*

uh oh
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 01 February 2021, 15:16:16
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2333/orion-on1-k-kerensky
Kerensky's Orion, has introduction date 2753 and sports a Snub-nose PPC. Which was developed in 2779 by the Star League.
BattleTech Legends does mention Kerensky kept tinkering with his Orion and changed loadouts, so it seems likely the Snubby-armed version appeared circa 2779 (or later).
So, should Kerensky's Orion have its introduction date altered? Seems easier than issuing errata regarding the Snub-nose PPC's introduction date (though i think the Star League sourcebook had it "appear" around mid-2700s rather than its current introduction date).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 02 February 2021, 09:17:35
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7730/archer-arc-4m2

The Archer 4M2 is somehow available to IS Clan General during Late Republic period, rather than to Inner Sphere General.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 February 2021, 09:36:07
i'm surprised that doesn't happen more since they're right next to each other on the assignment list

fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 02 February 2021, 09:46:06
It might be...
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/569/charger-cgr-sa5
IS Clan General Early Republic onward?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1272/grasshopper-ghr-c
Early Republic Clan, then goes extinct.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 February 2021, 10:09:54
what, you don't believe the clans got charger fever and seized all examples for themselves??

fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 02 February 2021, 11:37:08
Just went through the Clan General lists, and it looks like those were the extent of my fat fingering.
I apologize for trying to flood the Clan market with inferior IS designs, and beg for Surkairede.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 February 2021, 13:54:30
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2333/orion-on1-k-kerensky
Kerensky's Orion, has introduction date 2753 and sports a Snub-nose PPC. Which was developed in 2779 by the Star League.
BattleTech Legends does mention Kerensky kept tinkering with his Orion and changed loadouts, so it seems likely the Snubby-armed version appeared circa 2779 (or later).
So, should Kerensky's Orion have its introduction date altered? Seems easier than issuing errata regarding the Snub-nose PPC's introduction date (though i think the Star League sourcebook had it "appear" around mid-2700s rather than its current introduction date).

Update: this is under investigation and has revealed some additional issues that need to be sorted out. It actually affects several units. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 02 February 2021, 14:03:52
Huh. Didn't expect that. Err, have fun?

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 February 2021, 14:13:17
something about the snubnose currently violating the understood physics of time
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 02 February 2021, 14:17:00
something about the snubnose currently violating the understood physics of time
Figures. Off-hand, the old Star League sourcebook had it appearing earlier than current data suggests, but i guess altering its introduction date would lead to a question why it wasn't recovered from Helm memory core...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 02 February 2021, 17:56:15
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3041/stalker-stk-5s
Are the Clan users deliberate? The Steel Vipers during the Clan Invasion, the Jade Falcons and Diamond Sharks during the Civil war and Jihad.
Is there some particular source for these if they're deliberate? They just seem so weird, can't think of many non-Star League, non-C Spheroid 'Mechs used by the Clans.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 02 February 2021, 18:50:55
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3041/stalker-stk-5s
Are the Clan users deliberate? The Steel Vipers during the Clan Invasion, the Jade Falcons and Diamond Sharks during the Civil war and Jihad.
Is there some particular source for these if they're deliberate? They just seem so weird, can't think of many non-Star League, non-C Spheroid 'Mechs used by the Clans.

They were the factions that over time controlled Twycross, and in extension, the STK-5S line there.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 02 February 2021, 18:58:54
 Give that one another six months until we find out whatever Stalker C 2 monstrosity comes out of that factory when the RecGuides are done.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 02 February 2021, 22:38:51
Wulfen Bs card does not increase the speed for the installed supercharger. Should be 26”. Not sure how (if at all) it effects the PV.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 03 February 2021, 01:27:35
They were the factions that over time controlled Twycross, and in extension, the STK-5S line there.
Ah, i see. I suppose the factory got eventually converted to something else.
EDIT huh, didn't expect it to get destroyed afterwards...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 03 February 2021, 02:05:56
Wulfen Bs card does not increase the speed for the installed supercharger. Should be 26”. Not sure how (if at all) it effects the PV.

Thanks, fixed. PV has accordingly been adjusted to 31.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 03 February 2021, 18:03:32
Ilclan RG12:
Black Python 2 lacks post Jihad availability
Black Python 5 Clan Invasion Era is listed as Snow Raven design but in the text it's a Steel Viper refit
A question:
Are we certain the Shadow Hawk 5R should be available to Kurita? It's possible they buy it but it's a little odd I think
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 03 February 2021, 20:09:47
The Black Python 2 lacking post-Jihad availabilities is intentional. It can be considered to be extinct in the IS, but we cannot claim it to be fully extinct unit we know more about the Homeworld Clans.

Fixed the Black Python 5, thanks.

The Shadow Hawk 5R was not intentional: I got my 4H and 5R variants reversed. Fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 04 February 2021, 18:30:40
The Shadow Hawk 5R was not intentional: I got my 4H and 5R variants reversed. Fixed.

The Shadow Hawk is explicitly pointed out the Rec Guide text that the 4H is a result of the joint Rim Commonality/Canopian venture, just a heads up.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 04 February 2021, 18:36:08
The Shadow Hawk is explicitly pointed out the Rec Guide text that the 4H is a result of the joint Rim Commonality/Canopian venture, just a heads up.

Yep, fully aware! Still intentional. Thanks for the double-check, though.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 05 February 2021, 11:26:19
Oddity: The Avatar-Prime (and C and F picked randomly) are available to the Clan Nova Cat, but the Avatar-U is available to the Rasalhague Dominion but not the Nova Cat.
I would presume the latter should be for the Clan Nova Cat rather than Rasalhague. Would be kinda weird to field only one OmniMech configuration.

Also, should the Clans in general have C3-focused configurations available to them? The Avatar-C being available to the Clan Nova Cat made me wonder.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/160/avatar-av1-o
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/171/avatar-av1-ou
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 05 February 2021, 11:30:49
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7294/beowulf-iic-pr

The Beowulf IIC PR probably should be extinct post-Early Republic, and be Unique as well due to its prototype status. Not only does it use C3I system, and XTRO Republic I indicates it could not be manufactured further once RotS dismantled C3I manufacturing.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 February 2021, 11:34:04
there were a limited number of prototypes. at least one has survived into the DA
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 05 February 2021, 11:36:54
there were a limited number of prototypes (unique is used for very small numbers as well). at least one has survived into the DA
It did? Well then. Still reckon "unique" would be appropriate on the account of the variant's limited numbers.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 February 2021, 11:39:13
i thought that it was already flagged as unique - added that for the DA.

most jihad-era prototypes from the XTROs do disappear post-3085, but a few slip through
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 05 February 2021, 12:20:24
Oddity: The Avatar-Prime (and C and F picked randomly) are available to the Clan Nova Cat, but the Avatar-U is available to the Rasalhague Dominion but not the Nova Cat.
I would presume the latter should be for the Clan Nova Cat rather than Rasalhague. Would be kinda weird to field only one OmniMech configuration.

Based off of the availabilities of the base Avatar chassis, the AV1-OU's RD availability is definitely in error. Fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 06 February 2021, 17:24:44
A Raven question:
The -4L is not available to the CapCon by the Dark Age but the C3 version -4LC is. Is this an error or have the Cappies moved to the -5L except where C3 use required?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2666/raven-rvn-4l
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2667/raven-rvn-4lc
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 06 February 2021, 17:31:14
pretty much. they still make the 4L but that production largely goes to their underlings allies. you can still find the 4L in the CCAF, but not in large enough numbers to make the threshold 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 06 February 2021, 17:31:54
Makes sense, thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 08 February 2021, 12:07:28
Hi guys. I moved on to the rabbit hole of vehicle research. I have a handful of potential errata for them, though most are potential issues on availability. I put the ones that are almost certainly errata first.

1. Rhino FST (standard): source should be TR3050U not TR3039: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4913/rhino-fire-support-tank-standard

2. Zorya (ammo) variant: Has an intro date of 2841, but Zorya (standard) has an intro date of 2842, and the ammo variant is described as a field refit of the standard model in TR3060. So, should be introduced same year or after: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3652/zorya-light-tank-ammo

3. Badger (C) and Bandit (C) should likely have Clan availability now that pre-Clan Invasion availabilities are in the MUL. Both have intro dates of 2875, implying that at least Clan Wolf had access to them prior to the invasion. That said, I'm not sure that there is any canon that gives guidance on who else (or if they become extinct on some point, etc.) It affects all Omni variants, but I just listed the prime ones below.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/199/badger-c-tracked-transport-prime
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/228/bandit-c-hovercraft-prime

Here are a few availability issues that just need some filling in of missing eras:
4. Sabaku Kaze (standad): based on TR3075 fluff, should be available through Succession Wars to Draconis combine since they are available later and no additional units were produced then (so add availability to LSW-LT, LSW-R eras)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2761/sabaku-kaze-heavy-scout-hover-tank-standard

5. Swift Wind (standard): add SIC to Civil War era (is available to SIC in prior eras and doubt it was extinct for them 3062-63)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3145/swift-wind-scout-car-standard

6. Darter Scout Car (SRM) and (SRM2) variants: based on TR3075 fluff, should be available to Fed Suns in LSW-LT and LSW-R eras.
ALSO: pretty sure that (SRM) variant should also be Introductory technology (not Standard tech, which is why it should be available in LSWs)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4050/darter-scout-car-srm2
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/835/darter-scout-car-srm

And then these are availability issues that are a bit more fuzzy, but look to be errata based on the sources cited.
7. Nightshade (standard): ComStar should have availability during Clan Invasion and Civil War eras, based on TR3050U (fluff says they had them on Tukayyid through bombing by WoB, which was Jan-3068)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2278/nightshade-ecm-vtol-standard

8. And Nightshade (armor): also based on fluff from TR3050U, think this is the "2-passenger" downgraded SW-era variant, so I think there are two issues:
Technology should be Introductory (not Standard),
Availability should be IS-General instead of Comstar for all eras (or until they are extinct at some point given the tech level?)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2274/nightshade-ecm-vtol-armor

9. J Edgar (MG variant): based on TR3039 fluff, should be available to Taurians in all eras (i.e., should have same availability as Flamer variant since both are mentioned as "common refits" together)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1640/j-edgar-light-hover-tank-mg

10. Pegasus (3058 upgrade): should be available to Liao and Marik during Clan Invasion, Civil War, and Jihad eras (and maybe other factions who were exported to as well?). Earthwerks (FWL) and Hellespont (CC) is listed as a producer of the upgrade in TR3058U, and both are listed as producers of the standard model in TR3039
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2455/pegasus-scout-hover-tank-3058-upgrade

11. Prowler MTV (support variant): based on TR3085-Supp, this is an APC version of the downgraded SW-era variant ("most common variant of the SW-era"), so probably should be available to everyone (IS-General, Periph-General, Mercs) in LSW-LT and LSW-R eras.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2588/prowler-multi-terrain-vehicle-support

12. Prowler MTV (sealed variant): also based on TR3085-Supp, this is the environmentally sealed version that is exclusive to Explorer Corps, so probably only should be available to ComStar throughout (or at least available to them only in earlier eras)? Also looked at Explorer Corps fluff for it, which seems to describe the same variant, but it's not clear if the version produced throughout the IS that the EC SB fluff cites is the same one, mostly because this variant has LosTech and there exists a downgraded variant.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2585/prowler-multi-terrain-vehicle-sealed

13. Rommel (Gauss): If availability of standard model is retconned from the Taurians (Obj Raids vs. Rommel fluff in TR3039 stating that their production of the Rommel was just a rumor), then it's not clear how the Taurians have the upgraded Gauss variant.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2735/rommel-tank-gauss

14. Padilla HAT (LRM variant): according to the TR3058U fluff, this is the SW-era Liao downgrade, and they only had 20 of them as of the 1st SW. So, this should probably be available to Liao for LSW-LT and LSW-R eras. On top of that, since the standard (Arrow IV) version is available to Liao starting in the Clan Invasion era, perhaps this variant should also be extinct from either the Clan Invasion or Civil War eras forward? At the same time, it is Standard tech (is this correct?). If that's the case, maybe all are gone by 2SW (and Liao doesn't have the standard variant)? Either way, something is inconsistent here...
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2403/padilla-heavy-artillery-tank-lrm

15. Po (standard): original TR3058 suggests that Liao begins exporting the Po in 3038, especially to Mercs (and also Houses). TR3058 also cites Mercs as popular customers, but only cites FWL as customers as of 3060 ("over the last ten years"). So, I think at least Mercs (and maybe others?) should have availability in LSW-R era.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2549/po-heavy-tank-standard

 (And yes, I've also gone down the aerospace rabbit hole. I just need to verify a few things and will post what I found there soon, too...  ;) )
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 February 2021, 12:19:30
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2333/orion-on1-k-kerensky
Kerensky's Orion, has introduction date 2753 and sports a Snub-nose PPC. Which was developed in 2779 by the Star League.
BattleTech Legends does mention Kerensky kept tinkering with his Orion and changed loadouts, so it seems likely the Snubby-armed version appeared circa 2779 (or later).
So, should Kerensky's Orion have its introduction date altered? Seems easier than issuing errata regarding the Snub-nose PPC's introduction date (though i think the Star League sourcebook had it "appear" around mid-2700s rather than its current introduction date).

Update on the update: This has largely been tentatively resolved. It will require some errata if adopted.

The prototype date for the SNPPC will have to be moved up to 2695 due to the PHX-HK1R's entry stating explicitly in TR3085 that it was produced before the classic unseen Phoenix Hawk LAM that appeared in 2701. Kerensky's Orion and the Royal Falcon will stay where they are. The PXH-1c "Special" is being bumped up to 2765 so it agrees with the Falcon's fluff. The Falcon's Fluff in OP Klondike will have to be modified slightly as well to acknowledge the Phoenix Hawk LAM as the first user of the snub.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 08 February 2021, 12:28:08
Wow?
100 years more Snubbie... huh.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 February 2021, 12:37:51
our hands were tied by the Mk1 LAM. ultimately in canon it's not going to affect much... maybe a unit or two appearing down the road. it does give people some more wiggle room in home games to have fun with it
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 08 February 2021, 12:42:01
Yeah sure, it was an easy way to correct stuff, and pretty good one too considering that previous info placed the Snubbie earlier in timeline, not to mention it ties nicely to ERPPC development, maybe.
I'm just mildly amused a rather simple question results in stuff like this.

EDIT Checked The Star League, which gives the original date for the Snubbie as 2690s. So all this did was to restore canon basically :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 February 2021, 12:45:10
the other bit was that the original Star League book had the gun appearing during the reign of Jonathan Cameron so the LAM's intro date allowed us to not have to mess with that.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 08 February 2021, 13:32:14
snip
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 08 February 2021, 19:04:44
A victory for the OG Star Leauge book?  AWESOME!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 09 February 2021, 23:56:13
wall'o'words

Answers!

1. Rhino: error, fixed.
2. Zorya: error, supported by the intro to the Clan vehicle section as well. Fixed.
3. We're not there yet. The only Clan units to have availabilities in pre-CI eras so far are those introduced in the year 2900 or later, or those found in TR:Golden Century.
4. We're not there yet. We'll come to it in due time.
5. Fixed. Availability expanded to cover all Swift Wind variants.
6. See point 4. Tech level fixed.
7. Nighshade: error, fixed.
8. Nightshade (armor): Tech level fixed. Availabilities given to other factions in Early SW era.
9. J. Edgar (MG): Variant adjusted to follow base model's availabilities.
10. Pegasus: Error, fixed.
11. See point 4.
12. Prowler (sealed): Distribution will remain as-is.
13. Rommel: Availabilities massaged to better follow the standard model.
14. Padilla: Availabilities will remain as-is. Perhaps House Liao refit more of their Padillas to this standard.
15. Po: Po: Merc availability give. FWL will remain off of LSW-R due to conflicting information in 3058u.

Thanks for your time in finding these!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 10 February 2021, 07:05:15
Should the Hellbringer have wider availability? Recognition Guide 1 says that the Clan Sea Fox provides it to all buyers, which has lead to its appearance across the Inner Sphere, and details a case of Cappies vs mercs where the latter used the Hellbringer.

Or is this is a case of "yeah, anyone can have a Hellbringer but not to the extent it appears on MUL"?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1929/loki-hellbringer-prime
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 10 February 2021, 11:14:22
Answers!

*snip*

Thanks for your time in finding these!

My pleasure! You guys are MUL updating machines.

I'll post what I have for Aerospace soon (significantly smaller list, I think), and that might be it from me for a while.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 10 February 2021, 11:16:27
feel free. i've drafted late-era fighter and small craft stuff but it's still in the review queue. we can make adjustments behind the scenes if necessary and avoid later adjustments (in other words, good timing)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 10 February 2021, 12:03:21
Should the Hellbringer have wider availability? Recognition Guide 1 says that the Clan Sea Fox provides it to all buyers, which has lead to its appearance across the Inner Sphere, and details a case of Cappies vs mercs where the latter used the Hellbringer.

Or is this is a case of "yeah, anyone can have a Hellbringer but not to the extent it appears on MUL"?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1929/loki-hellbringer-prime

This was actually previously discussed, but it looks like we forgot to implement the changes. Making them now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 11 February 2021, 15:24:48
Alpha Strike issue. Maybe.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6413/hitotsume-kozo-hkz-1p

This Hitotsume sports jump jets, should it have that jump-weak ability? The 1F variant does have that.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 February 2021, 15:33:54
Alpha Strike issue. Maybe.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6413/hitotsume-kozo-hkz-1p

This Hitotsume sports jump jets, should it have that jump-weak ability? The 1F variant does have that.

No. A unit must at least have different movement profiles for ground and jump to have jump-weak.  Where a unit has weak or strong jump is relative to its ground movement.  The 1P has the same ground and jump movement.  The 1F has a higher ground than jump movement.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 11 February 2021, 15:45:18
Ah, i see. Will keep this in mind for future. (Not familiar with the AS changes.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 13 February 2021, 23:30:10
Enyo Strike Tank (LBX) “Sholef”

Movement is listed as 12”t, based on its record sheet from 3067:Unabridged it should be 10”. No change to TMM.

I looked at the errata thread for 3067U and there was no mention of 5/8 being wrong there
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 14 February 2021, 16:50:53
feel free. i've drafted late-era fighter and small craft stuff but it's still in the review queue. we can make adjustments behind the scenes if necessary and avoid later adjustments (in other words, good timing)

Ok, here's what I have for all aerospace! I actually didn't have too much for fighters themselves. Mostly dropships, jumpships, and warships.

Aerospace fighters:
1. Trident TRN-3U: TR3050U fluff suggests that this is the downgraded version that can still be found in the "periphery, backwater militias, and independent states" as of 3070, so probably not extinct? (I would guess available to Periphery-General for LSW-LT, LSW-R, and maybe Clan Invasion eras?)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5277/trident-trn-3u

2. Rogue RGU-133P: I think this is supposed to the the unsuccessful Lyran PPC variant referenced in its TR3050U fluff. So, a) probably not available to Comstar (Intro date is 2821), and instead available to Steiner from ESW on? (and maybe even extinct at some point, too?)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2734/rogue-rgu-133p

3. Hellcat-213D, Hellcat HCT-213S: According to TR3075 fluff, Steiner *and* Davion should have access to both of these variants. I'm pretty sure "S" references space-superiority, and "D" references DropShip, not the usual "Steiner" and "Davion" variants. (In other words, both should probably have the same availability as HCT-213R)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4296/hellcat-hct-213d
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5539/hellcat-hct-213s   

4. Chippewa CHP-W7: This is an SLDF LosTech variant that was reintroduced just prior to the Clan invasion [TR3039 fluff], so it should should either be: A) extinct prior to Clan Invasion era (then available as specified thereafter), or B) available only to Comstar prior to the Clan Invasion era, with Comstar, WoB also having availability from Clan Invasion thru Jihad (since it has a SF-era Intro year)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/586/chippewa-chp-w7

DropShips:
5. Fury (2638): Should also be available to Comstar in ESW, LSW-LT, and LSW-R eras? (no source but would be consistent with availabilities of all other SL-era DropShips)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4191/fury-2638

6. Leopard (PPC): This is the PPC variant produced by the Canopians [Objective Raids fluff for producer], but the availability shifts abruptly pre/post Clan Invasion. One of two fixes probably works: i.e., Canopians exported it widely and therefore available to all even after Clan invasion, or Canopians kept home-grown variant to themselves before and after Clan invasion. But the current available to all prior to the Clans and then only MoC afterwards seems weird.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4495/leopard-ppc

7. Gazelle (2531): Should also be available to Mercenaries in all eras it is available to IS-General and Periph-General? (no source but would be consistent with all other SL-era ships that are available to the general lists)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4204/gazelle-2531

8. Intruder (Liao): Should this only be available to Capellans and St Ives throughout? I didn't see any mention of export, outside producers, etc., in Dropships & Jumpships or TR3057R.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4370/intruder-liao

9. Vulture (2405), Vulture (Standard), Vulture (cargo): I think the three variants are switched around here based on the TR3075 fluff.
--Standard: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5369/vulture-standard  I think this is the primitive-tech era original model and should probably be extinct by the end of the Star League?
--2405: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7340/vulture-2405 I think this is the "standard" SL-era version and should likely be available to Mercs and Periph-General from LSW on according to TR3075?
--Cargo: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5368/vulture-cargo The "converted commercial shipping" version in the fluff? If so, should probably be available to Periph-General from LSW-LT era, too?

10. Condor (3054): I am pretty sure the availability should be FWL, not the Lyrans. The producer is Nimikachi Fusion on Dalton (TR3057R, with Dalton location inferred from DS&JS and Obj Raids).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3984/condor-3054

11. Vengeance (3056): I am pretty sure the availability should also be FWL, not Fed Suns. The Kallon plant referenced in the TR3057R fluff should refer to the one on Loyalty. I don't think Kallon made any DS, JS, or WS in the Fed Suns.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5343/vengeance-3056

12. Mammoth (2658), Behemoth (2658): These are both from a reference in the Star League SB about an earlier producer, presumably about the SL-era version of the Standard variant listed in TR3057R. As such, both should probably have the same availabilities throughout. Currently, Mammoth is available to all, but Behemoth is extinct by the Clan Invasion.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4575/mammoth-2658
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3811/behemoth-2658

JumpsShips and Warships:
11. Scout JumpShip (std):  Should also be available to Mercenaries in Clan Invasion and later eras (no source but would be consistent with earlier eras and all other SL-era ships that are available to the general lists)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4999/scout-jumpship-standard

12. Tramp JumpShip (std): This is actually an errata in TR3057R, so I don't know how to fix this. The fluff says it was "produced sporadically throughout the SWs" but this cannot be true because it has LosTech weapons. Ideally, it would go extinct by the LSW-LT era (and reappear in the Clan Invasion era),  and there would be some "Tramp (2835)" downgraded variant available, but I don't think anything like that exists in the canon.   So...  :-\
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5273/tramp-jumpship-standard

13. Whirlwind (2606): This is the original SL-era model, but the TR3057R fluff states that all of them left on the Exodus, and the only Whirlwind ever noted in the Comstar/WoB fleets was the captured CGB Fire Fang, which would presumably be the Lithium-Fusion "(Clan)" variant (and Comstar has it as available in its MUL entry to confirm). So, I think it should be extinct (in the IS) from ESW forward?
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5402/whirlwind-destroyer-2606

14. Finally, I think all 5 of these warships are duplicate entries. The intro years and the sources of their own and their duplicate entries suggest that they are in fact the same ship/variant just referenced in a different book.
a. Essex (2443) http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4135/essex-destroyer-2443 -- duplicate of Essex Destroyer I entry. It cites TR2750 as its source, but this only has a reference to "an earlier version active in the 25th and 26th centuries," which seems to fit the description of the Essex I.
b. Commonwealth (std) http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3980/commonwealth-standard -- duplicate of Commonwealth (Block I) entry. The SO book as the same intro year as the Block I variant, and its only mentioned in SO fluff.
c. Defender (std) [SO reference] http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4058/defender-standard -- duplicate of Defender (standard) entry [FR: 2765 FS reference]. The SO book as the same intro year as the other "standard" variant, and its only mentioned in SO fluff.
d. Riga (Carrier-Destroyer) http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4921/riga-destroyercarrier-standard -- duplicate of Riga II entry. York CV-DD fluff in TR3057 implies that the two are one and the same, including the same Intro date.
e. Newgrange Yardship (std) http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4135/essex-destroyer-2443 -- duplicate of Newgrange III Yardship (standard) entry. The Newgrange fluff in TR3085-Supp suggests that the two are one and the same (citing the earlier Jihad SB)

That's all I got! At some point I'll move on to the Jihad and Dark Ages, but I have a LOT of catching up to do before then...

         
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 16 February 2021, 00:50:06
these are under review
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Valkerie on 16 February 2021, 23:35:26
Got a question here.  The Stalker STK-3H has the special ability of SRM1/1.  The Stalker STK-3F does not, yet it has the same number of SRM 6 racks and ammo (based on Record Sheets: Succession Wars).  I don't know the conversion rules, so why is this?  Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 17 February 2021, 01:46:19
Got a question here.  The Stalker STK-3H has the special ability of SRM1/1.  The Stalker STK-3F does not, yet it has the same number of SRM 6 racks and ammo (based on Record Sheets: Succession Wars).  I don't know the conversion rules, so why is this?  Thanks in advance!
Most likely the Stalker has so much heat generation it removes the special ability. Not 100% on this though.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Valkerie on 17 February 2021, 12:00:19
Most likely the Stalker has so much heat generation it removes the special ability. Not 100% on this though.
Sounds reasonable.  That would explain a similar situation I found. The Centurion CN9-A has the AC special and the Orion ON1-K does not.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 17 February 2021, 12:23:41
Most likely the Stalker has so much heat generation it removes the special ability. Not 100% on this though.

Yep, that's exactly it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Valkerie on 17 February 2021, 12:34:30
Yep, that's exactly it.
Thanks for confirming that!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 17 February 2021, 14:37:32
Tomahawk II B
Movement code should be modified from 6” to 6”j

No idea on cost
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 17 February 2021, 14:47:55
The Tomahawk II B does not have jump jets. Only the C does. (And none of the Tomahawk Is jump.)

EDIT That said, the C is missing the jumpers. http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6306/tomahawk-ii-c


EDIT Correction, the B indeed has the Jump Jets and its AS card needs them. I had recorded the configurations in wrong order to my SSW database.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6305/tomahawk-ii-b

EDIT This explains why i kept thinking IWM had the miniatures mislabeled.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 17 February 2021, 15:23:37
Tomahawk II B
Movement code should be modified from 6” to 6”j

No idea on cost

Thanks, PV and movement adjusted both.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 February 2021, 15:42:29
Enyo Strike Tank (LBX) “Sholef”

Movement is listed as 12”t, based on its record sheet from 3067:Unabridged it should be 10”. No change to TMM.

I looked at the errata thread for 3067U and there was no mention of 5/8 being wrong there

Fixed to 10"t and 36 PV.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 19 February 2021, 15:30:33
Here's a (hopefully) easy one:

Uller V: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7746/uller-kit-fox-v  -- should have Tech = "Advanced" (has Arrow IV artillery, also listed as such in RG-11). Also, should era be LSW-LosTech? (Intro year is 2921)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 19 February 2021, 16:30:32
Here's a (hopefully) easy one:

Uller V: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7746/uller-kit-fox-v  -- should have Tech = "Advanced" (has Arrow IV artillery, also listed as such in RG-11). Also, should era be LSW-LosTech? (Intro year is 2921)

Thanks, fixed.
Your other post hasn't been forgotten, by the way. We're just working out some of the fine details.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 19 February 2021, 16:43:11
Sometimes one reference turns into a matryoshka doll of problems
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 19 February 2021, 18:59:20
Your other post hasn't been forgotten, by the way. We're just working out some of the fine details.

Sometimes one reference turns into a matryoshka doll of problems

No worries! I figured a couple of those might take a while to iron out.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nahuris on 22 February 2021, 22:02:19
Quick question, to my knowledge, omnis cannot change their armor -- and yet, the Badger Prime tank has 4 armor, and the rest of the configurations have 3.....

I checked the Badger C, and they all have 3, just in case there was a mix up..... is that correct? I checked the weapons weight, and all the others are the same for equipment totals, so am wondering if that was an error??

Nahuris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 23 February 2021, 09:57:08
looks like a data entry error
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 23 February 2021, 10:53:26
Aerospace fighters:
1. Trident TRN-3U: TR3050U fluff suggests that this is the downgraded version that can still be found in the "periphery, backwater militias, and independent states" as of 3070, so probably not extinct? (I would guess available to Periphery-General for LSW-LT, LSW-R, and maybe Clan Invasion eras?)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5277/trident-trn-3u

the 3050U fluff gives this guy one additional era of longevity. it's assumed that the Outworlds/Raven Alliance stock of tridents noted to be used as training aircraft will have been 100% upgraded to the 3T by 3085

Quote
2. Rogue RGU-133P: I think this is supposed to the the unsuccessful Lyran PPC variant referenced in its TR3050U fluff. So, a) probably not available to Comstar (Intro date is 2821), and instead available to Steiner from ESW on? (and maybe even extinct at some point, too?)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2734/rogue-rgu-133p

changed to lyran exclusive. extinct by 3060

Quote
3. Hellcat-213D, Hellcat HCT-213S: According to TR3075 fluff, Steiner *and* Davion should have access to both of these variants. I'm pretty sure "S" references space-superiority, and "D" references DropShip, not the usual "Steiner" and "Davion" variants. (In other words, both should probably have the same availability as HCT-213R)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4296/hellcat-hct-213d
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5539/hellcat-hct-213s   

while the observation about the meaning of the designations is correct, it's not considered enough to warrant a change. chalk it up to coincidence that the davions kept up the D variant and that the lyrans kept up the S variant.

Quote
4. Chippewa CHP-W7: This is an SLDF LosTech variant that was reintroduced just prior to the Clan invasion [TR3039 fluff], so it should should either be: A) extinct prior to Clan Invasion era (then available as specified thereafter), or B) available only to Comstar prior to the Clan Invasion era, with Comstar, WoB also having availability from Clan Invasion thru Jihad (since it has a SF-era Intro year)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/586/chippewa-chp-w7

The unauthorized and widespread distribution of lostech has been contained. this should only be available to comstar through the late succession wars. standard distribution remains beginning with the clan invasion       

discussion ongoing on the dropships
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 23 February 2021, 16:26:35
In Rec Guide 07 the Stormcrow P variant has the Republic Era symbol on its record sheet. In the MUL it has its ability listed as from 3049 onward. Which one of these is correct?

Ignore that. I just checked the errata threads for the reg guides and see that has been addressed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 24 February 2021, 13:43:27
Ok, here's what I have for all aerospace! I actually didn't have too much for fighters themselves. Mostly dropships, jumpships, and warships.

5. Fury - We concur.
6. Leopard (PPC) - Availabilities adjusted.
7. Gazelle (2531) - We concur.
8. Intruder (Liao) - Availabilities adjusted.
9. Vulture - Things we a bit mixed up here, for sure. Fixed.
10. Condor (3054) - We concur.
11. Vengeance (3056) - FWL added, FedSuns remain.
12. Mammoth (2658) - Fixed to respect tech extinction.
13. Scout JumpShip - We concur.
14. Tramp JumpShip - A new variant has been created to deal with this issue.
15. Whirlwind (2606) - We concur.
16. Duplicates - Totally right.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 24 February 2021, 23:22:38
Rogue Bear (Hybrid) is listed at 2 tons (an assault suit) when the other Rouge Bears are listed at 1.5 tons (Heavy).

TRO Prototypes also lists the suit as heavy (1.5t)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 25 February 2021, 11:53:54
Rogue Bear (Hybrid) is listed at 2 tons (an assault suit) when the other Rouge Bears are listed at 1.5 tons (Heavy).

TRO Prototypes also lists the suit as heavy (1.5t)

Thanks, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 25 February 2021, 11:56:40
The unauthorized and widespread distribution of lostech has been contained. this should only be available to comstar through the late succession wars. standard distribution remains beginning with the clan invasion       

I hope I didn't get any aerospace pilots or naval procurement guys fired on this one...  :-[

14. Tramp JumpShip - A new variant has been created to deal with this issue.

I didn't realize you guys had this power!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 25 February 2021, 12:34:43
it's our means of last resort when we get boxed in by an interaction of canon materials that don't give much for wiggle room. we recently added a mackie variant because the first non-primitive version had to appear before the AC/20 existed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 25 February 2021, 13:07:15
Chameleon TRC-4B (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/546/chameleon-trc-4b)
The MUL lists the TRC-4B only for the Capellan Confederation during the SL era. According to TRO Succession Wars p. 78, it was produced at the  Hesperus II facilities, a Terran Hegemony/Lyran Commonwealth joint production site "since the 2500s, with total production numbers running somewhere in the tens of thousands". Shouldn't at least the TH and LC have access added, maybe even "IS General" like from the early SW era on?


Cyclops CP-10-Z (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/772/cyclops-cp-10-z)
The MUL lists the CP-10-z during the SL era for the Draconis Combine, the Federated Suns, Rim Worlds and even the Taurian Concordat, but not for the SLDF and the other SL members. According to TRO SW p. 168, the Cyclops resulted from an SLDF request and was manufactured from the early 2700s on Caph, then a Terran Hegemony planet. Shouldn't the SLDF and the Terran Hegemony get access added, maybe even IS General?

Ostsol OTL-4D (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2371/ostsol-otl-4d)
The MUL lists the OTL-4D for the SL era for the Federated Suns, the Free Worlds League, Mercenaries and even Periphery General.
According to TRO39 p. 292, it was produced on Connaught, then a Terran Hegemony planet from 2694 when "Kong-manufactured Ostsols were entering service with SLDF Dragoon and Hussar regiments. More were sold to the League Member States after 2752". Shouldn't the OTL-4D also be available for the SLDF and IS General?


UrbanMech UM-R60 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3354/urbanmech-um-r60)
The MUL lists the UM-R60 for the SL era only for the Capellan Confederation. According to TRO SW p. 30, the "UrbanMech was used by the Star League to suppress urban guerrillas..." Edit: It was in production on Marcus, then a Terran Hegemony planet.
Shouldn't the UM-R60 be added as available to the SLDF?


Striker STC-2C (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3094/striker-stc-2c)
Should the availability for the STC-2c removed from the "Star League Royal" category? According to TRO3058U, p.222 it was "the  first assault ’Mech commissioned by the SLDF Quartermaster Command for specific use with non-Terran Hegemony SLDF forces", which should exclude Royal units.

Tramp JumpShip (SW Downgrade) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7799/tramp-jumpship-sw-downgrade)
Most units with unclear intro dates have been standardized to "Unknown" or a small selection of eras like "ES", "PS" "circa 2300" etc. (Thanks for that!) Only the newly created downgraded Tramp seems to have escaped this treatment and still lists intro date as "0". Should be changed to "Unknown".

Edit: added argument for UM-60R being available for the SLDF/TH
Edit2 for clarification
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Decoy on 25 February 2021, 13:50:43
IS General and Mercenary you mean. Mercenaries do not have access to the IS general list.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 25 February 2021, 13:55:40
IS General and Mercenary you mean. Mercenaries do not have access to the IS general list.
That seems like a matter of interpretation, perhaps depending on the era. During the Star League, before mercs rose to prominence? Sure.

At least i always figured there should be no reason why mercs wouldn't be able to use IS General list. Mercs list seems to exists because there's a bunch of House designs sold to mercs but not to other houses.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 25 February 2021, 14:22:29
That seems like a matter of interpretation, perhaps depending on the era. During the Star League, before mercs rose to prominence? Sure.

At least i always figured there should be no reason why mercs wouldn't be able to use IS General list. Mercs list seems to exists because there's a bunch of House designs sold to mercs but not to other houses.

mercs do not ever draw directly from the IS general list (their assigned general list is called "Blank General," which does not require imagination to guess the contents). much of the IS General list is copied over to the merc list, but not all. a missing merc tag from something otherwise on the IS General list simply means not enough mercs field one to make the cut of "several examples in several formations". such an addition wouldn't be unheard of, but it would be noted as unusual.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 25 February 2021, 14:24:43
That seems like a matter of interpretation, perhaps depending on the era. During the Star League, before mercs rose to prominence? Sure.

At least i always figured there should be no reason why mercs wouldn't be able to use IS General list. Mercs list seems to exists because there's a bunch of House designs sold to mercs but not to other houses.

The MUL has definitions for what IS General and Mercenaries mean, and they do not overlap. What you want to do with that information is up to you, but what the MUL means when it says something is not up to interpretation.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 25 February 2021, 18:55:23
Are these definitions posted somewhere?  i don't recall seeing them...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 25 February 2021, 19:32:02
On the factions page, everything under a main heading is what makes up that General list.
The Inner Sphere General list means all the factions listed under Inner Sphere have it (assuming that faction is in that era).
Mercenaries are not under Inner Sphere, so they are not included when something says Inner Sphere General, but not Mercenaries.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 25 February 2021, 20:18:05
Thanks for the clarification!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 25 February 2021, 20:27:08
It should be noted in practice, at least with mechs, that while mercs don’t use the IS general list, much of it is is copied to their own. The Venn diagram isn’t a perfect circle but there is far more in common than not. This allows for a certain level of separation, especially with non mech units like support vees or exotic units that end up on the general list like the old dual cockpit variants
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 25 February 2021, 20:33:15
That seems to be a disctinction driven by expense rather than availability...  ???
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 25 February 2021, 20:36:02
The granularity of the mul doesn't care about that. We’re only determining who has what in sufficient numbers to be representative. You can figure out the whys in your own applications of the universe

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 25 February 2021, 20:45:20
That worries me a bit... where is the line between expense and avaiability?   ???

I understand the former impacts the latter, but that line is imporant.  The former is player constrained, while the latter is constrained by TPTB...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 25 February 2021, 20:49:54
Availability isn’t “can have.” Its “has.” The whys are up to you. Any player creation automatically is non canon. However you decide to reconcile the existence of your non-canon unit is up to you
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 25 February 2021, 20:58:06
Up to me and my opponent... somewhat lessening the use of the MUL...  :-\
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 25 February 2021, 21:00:15
Here I thought we were avoiding dictating exactly what players could and could not use

This isn’t meant to be complicated. A unit with a listed availability means that using that unit within the context of that faction’s force is representative and not out of the ordinary. Using something like a MAD-3M in a Kurita company would not be representative. The MUL isn’t in the business of saying such an occurrence is strictly impossible (except in the case of extinct units, and even then... who knows what was stashed in that SLDF bunker), but instead very rare - and creates the opportunity for interesting storytelling. Whether something is in the possession of a certain faction is not our responsibility to explain. We make certain inferences based on printed and internal resources. Player-imagined discrepancies are outside of our purview
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 26 February 2021, 04:19:14
Any tool can be abused... I appreciate what you and the team are doing here!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: BaldDen on 28 February 2021, 15:29:50
Hi! Huntsman's new variants from RGIC12 have mass of 45 tons
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 28 February 2021, 15:46:14
Snip

OK, sorry for the delay here. The list of things you found are all valid and have been fixed.

Hi! Huntsman's new variants from RGIC12 have mass of 45 tons

Thank you, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 28 February 2021, 18:18:42
My campaign of carnage has largely wrapped itself up (I’ve run out of victims).

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=3&EraId=16

Overall we’re above 90% on units with complete era stats. This includes homeclan units that have had crime scene tape plastered over their post-3085 fates. The last big hole is Star League in exile and early Clan to 2900, which involves over 600 units (including those we have to make decisions on whether they were taken on EXODUS or not).

It’s been a very productive two and a half months. Keep the reports coming on any weirdness you find. The team is grateful for the assistance

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maingunnery on 28 February 2021, 19:02:14
It seems that in the MUL that Clan Mongoose managed to survive into the late succession wars era.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maingunnery on 28 February 2021, 19:17:57

An idea: What about an Late Age of War era? (2439-2570)
This would start with the introduction of the Mackie.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 28 February 2021, 19:28:11
It seems that in the MUL that Clan Mongoose managed to survive into the late succession wars era.

jaguars can't do anything right. i swear to god.

An idea: What about an Late Age of War era? (2439-2570)
This would start with the introduction of the Mackie.

that thud you heard was cavingjan having an aneurism and collapsing into a heap
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 28 February 2021, 20:03:08
that thud you heard was cavingjan having an aneurism and collapsing into a heap

I did a ton of research into the Age of War for a fan article series I was planning at one point.
Long story short, I'm right there with him.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 28 February 2021, 20:05:07
The last big hole is Star League in exile and early Clan to 2900, which involves over 600 units (including those we have to make decisions on whether they were taken on EXODUS or not).

This one feels easy, at least.  If it was SLDF availability, and there's not a source that says "none of these were taken" then it should be there.  Whether the actual numbers match up (i.e. there are 600 designs on here but the SLDF-in-Exile only had 500 BattleMechs left at the time of the Second Exodus in some obscure reference) is irrelevant, since the only reasonable thing availability should be trying to determine is whether or such and such design could have been included in whatever number of 'Mechs that ends up being.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 28 February 2021, 20:11:12
I agree. The biggest challenge is the clan mechs themselves.

The IS mechs that didn’t go will mostly get extincted out. The ones in clan space will likely be gone or end up on HW general by ~2900. The main task is deciding
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 28 February 2021, 20:56:58
This one feels easy, at least.  If it was SLDF availability, and there's not a source that says "none of these were taken" then it should be there.  Whether the actual numbers match up (i.e. there are 600 designs on here but the SLDF-in-Exile only had 500 BattleMechs left at the time of the Second Exodus in some obscure reference) is irrelevant, since the only reasonable thing availability should be trying to determine is whether or such and such design could have been included in whatever number of 'Mechs that ends up being.

Just because this is the MUL thread, not Scotty's opinion thread, none of the above is what the MUL does.

Specifically, it is our job to decide what is or is not available, as in what a faction actually has or doesn't have. If we decide the SLDF took Mackies on the Exodus, then they took Mackies.  If we decide the SLDF didn't take... Kyudos, then they didn't take Kyudos.  It's our job to fill in the gaps of availability, and we are no more limited in making that decision than any writer would be.  A major point of the MUL is to answer the question of what units are available to who and when, when other sources will never be able to cover all the questions.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 01 March 2021, 01:06:28
Stormcrow P has a damage value of 4/4/2*

What does the asterisk mean? Or just get rid of it
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 01 March 2021, 10:40:49
Stormcrow P has a damage value of 4/4/2*

What does the asterisk mean? Or just get rid of it

The asterisk is minimal damage for that range bracket; it looks like it got checked by accident.
Fixed!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 01 March 2021, 20:20:06
On the factions page, everything under a main heading is what makes up that General list.
The Inner Sphere General list means all the factions listed under Inner Sphere have it (assuming that faction is in that era).
Mercenaries are not under Inner Sphere, so they are not included when something says Inner Sphere General, but not Mercenaries.
I want to add to this a little. Sometimes factions do change their main group. Some of the clan factions have moved from IS Clan General to HW Clan General or the other way. I thought there was another but I don't remember who it was now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 02 March 2021, 12:55:47
The JES III Standard (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6669/jes-iii-missile-carrier-standard) and JES III C3 (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6700/jes-iii-missile-carrier-c3) get IF4, but not LRM2/4/4, in their stat lines, while the JES III Speed (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6702/jes-iii-missile-carrier-speed) does.

All have the same armament of four LRM-15s with no Artemis, etc.

Recommend adding LRM2/4/4 to the Standard and Speed versions - so

JES II Standard: IF4, LRM2/4/4, SRCH, TUR(2/4/4, IF4, LRM2/4/4)

JES II C3: C3S, IF4, LRM2/4/4, MHQ1, SRCH, TUR(2/4/4, IF4, LRM2/4/4)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 03 March 2021, 06:09:10
The Swift 606( http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3141/swift-swf-606 ) is marked as having Rear-mounted weapons on its Alpha Strike card.  I do not believe it does.  Recomended action: remove the special ability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 03 March 2021, 15:32:56
The Sarath-A should be labeled mixed
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6507/sarath-srth-1oa
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 03 March 2021, 16:00:23
yup. one of those copy/paste errors probably. fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 03 March 2021, 18:29:37
It may have avoided most people's notice, but we've made changes to how the Free Worlds League is listed in the Jihad through Dark Ages eras. The Free Worlds League tag represents the League prior to their breakup in 3079 and after the reunification in 3139. There were some inconsistencies in the way the tag was used.

We added a new sub-faction—Free Worlds League (Non-Aligned Worlds)—to represent a group that was previously unrepresented. Units that had been assigned to the general FWL faction were given availability to all seven sub-factions. Now one must simply look at one of the sub-factions and Inner Sphere General to get the entire spate of units used by them during these eras. [The faction links represent a search of both of these groups.] The pan-Free Worlds League faction was removed from both the Early and Late Republic Eras since all units had been unassigned from it.

The seven FWL sub-factions are:
Duchy of Andurien (http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/59)
Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey (http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/75)
Marik-Stewart Commonwealth (http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/74)
Oriente Protectorate (http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/67)
Regulan Fiefs (http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/72)
Rim Commonality (http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/76)
Non-Aligned Worlds (http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/89)

How exactly things are handled after 3150 will be decided once the shape of the Inner Sphere becomes more clear. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 04 March 2021, 17:36:13
It may have avoided most people's notice, but we've made changes to how the Free Worlds League is listed in the Jihad through Dark Ages eras. The Free Worlds League tag represents the League prior to their breakup in 3079 and after the reunification in 3139. There were some inconsistencies in the way the tag was used.

We added a new sub-faction—Free Worlds League (Non-Aligned Worlds)—to represent a group that was previously unrepresented. Units that had been assigned to the general FWL faction were given availability to all seven sub-factions. Now one must simply look at one of the sub-factions and Inner Sphere General to get the entire spate of units used by them during these eras. [The faction links represent a search of both of these groups.] The pan-Free Worlds League faction was removed from both the Early and Late Republic Eras since all units had been unassigned from it.

The seven FWL sub-factions are:
Duchy of Andurien (http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/59)
Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey (http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/75)
Marik-Stewart Commonwealth (http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/74)
Oriente Protectorate (http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/67)
Regulan Fiefs (http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/72)
Rim Commonality (http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/76)
Non-Aligned Worlds (http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/89)

How exactly things are handled after 3150 will be decided once the shape of the Inner Sphere becomes more clear.

Nice, but shouldn't the non-aligned worlds have access to the Wasp -3M in the Jihad era?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 04 March 2021, 18:14:51
we only fiddled with ER, LR, and DA. applications to the late 3070s remain spotty. the wasp 3M would be part of a much broader late jihad review
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 06 March 2021, 05:59:29
I’d really like to see quirks listed on the MUL. I heard they got an update in the new Campaign Ops, it would be the time.  ;)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 06 March 2021, 11:30:10
I’d really like to see quirks listed on the MUL. I heard they got an update in the new Campaign Ops, it would be the time.  ;)

Strongly seconded!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 06 March 2021, 20:30:27
Why does the Ras Dom only have 3 Adder variants? Seems kinda weird to limit Omni confit availability. If you got one you got them all (aside from the Society ones obvi)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sharpnel on 06 March 2021, 20:37:15
Probably a question of tactics that the Gjost Bear touman uses. Certain configs may not fit their tactical doctrine.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 06 March 2021, 20:52:18
This is worth investigating. Normally access to the Omni chassis gives access to all configs outside of specialized ones. We’ll look into it
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 06 March 2021, 21:10:28
Given that Recognition Guide 3 also says that it's being sold throughout the Inner Sphere, I must ask why it's not available to any of the Successor States during the Dark Age.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 06 March 2021, 21:39:39
Another valid question
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 07 March 2021, 16:11:56
I’d really like to see quirks listed on the MUL. I heard they got an update in the new Campaign Ops, it would be the time.  ;)

We have an interest in doing this but some technical hurdles will have to be cleared first (ie there currently is no field to add them to). Stay tuned
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 07 March 2021, 18:13:20
The Firefly FFL-3A shows TAG in RS:OK as well as in RS:SW. However, it can't be selected from the MUL by filtering for Alpha Strike ability "TAG". It's also missing its AS card.

Its MUL entry lists TRO:SW as the relevant TRO source. However, this TRO doesn't even mention the 3A variant, TRO:OK describes it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 07 March 2021, 18:24:52
The Firefly FFL-3A shows TAG in RS:OK as well as in RS:SW. However, it can't be selected from the MUL by filtering for Alpha Strike ability "TAG". It's also missing its AS card.

Its MUL entry lists TRO:SW as the relevant TRO source. However, this TRO doesn't even mention the 3A variant, TRO:OK describes it.

Everything should be good now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 07 March 2021, 19:05:46
That was FAST! :o  :thumbsup:
Can I hire you?  ;)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 07 March 2021, 19:56:04
That was FAST! :o  :thumbsup:
Can I hire you?  ;)

Gawd don't even joke..  xp
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 09 March 2021, 13:09:36
Galaport Ground Tug (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4195/galaport-ground-tug-standard) and Galaport Ground Tag Trailer (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4196/galaport-ground-tug-trailer-standard) should weigh 200t each, not 0.2t.


Xotl: Fixed, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Inspector2311 on 13 March 2021, 23:40:47
Hello,

I think I may have found an error in the PV calculation for the Thor (Summoner) Prime?  Unless I'm mistaken, it should be 44, not 43.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/3183?skill=4

I think the missing 1 point is that the listing does not seem to take into account the Offensive Special Ability Factor 1 for the IF1?

I'm showing:
Attack Damage Factor: 16
Unit Size Factor: 1.5
Overheat Factor: 0
Offensive Special Ability Factor: 1

Blanket Offensive Multipliers: 1

Offensive Value: 18.5

Movement Factor: 1.75
Defensive Special Abilities Factor: 0
Armor Factor: 12
Structure Factor: 4
Movement Defense Factor Modifier: 2
Defense Factor Type Modifier: 0
Defense Factor: 1.2
DIR: 19.2 (round up to the nearest half point=19.5)
Final Defensive Value: 21.25

"Agile" Modifier: 4
Total: 18.5+21.25+4=43.75, round to 44.

Again, unless I have missed a calculation? (In which case, please, do let me know)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 14 March 2021, 00:18:33
*snip*

Welcome to the forums!

Errata (which can be found in its final state here, if you are unaware: https://bg.battletech.com/errata/) changed the DIR from being round up to being round to the nearest whole number. The 19.2, as a result, rounds down to 19, which then changes the final defensive rating to 20.75. Final Point Value then becomes 43.25, which rounds down to 43.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Inspector2311 on 14 March 2021, 15:09:02
Welcome to the forums!

Errata (which can be found in its final state here, if you are unaware: https://bg.battletech.com/errata/) changed the DIR from being round up to being round to the nearest whole number. The 19.2, as a result, rounds down to 19, which then changes the final defensive rating to 20.75. Final Point Value then becomes 43.25, which rounds down to 43.

Ah, yes, I missed that in the errata.  Perfect, I can fix my calculations now.  Thank you so much!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 14 March 2021, 17:18:44
Since the Terran Hegemony units inherit from the SL General list, in the Star League Era Overview (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/Details/10) the TH should be shown together with "Star Regular" and "Star League Royal" in the relevant "Other" column instead of "Inner Sphere" column (Or there could even be an era-specific dedicated "SL" Column for "SL General", "SL Royal", "SL Regular and Terran Hegemony").

The following units have AS Ability "FLAK", should be "FLK":
Von Luckner Heavy Tank (Star League) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3450/von-luckner-heavy-tank-star-league)
Osteon E (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5826/osteon-e)
Savage Coyote Z (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5831/savage-coyote-z)

The following unit has AS Ability "MQ", should be "MHQ":
Marco MR-6 ExplorerMech (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4594/marco-mr-6-explorermech)

Edit: According to TRO:VA(rev), p. 216,  the Marco-6 and -7 were produced for the SLDF. Availabilty should be assigned accordingly. [/edit]

The comment field of the Champion CHP-1Nb2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6765/champion-chp-1nb2) should be changed to "Original model with standard PPC.. replaced by ER PPC when available." Add missing "r" and replace ".." with ","

The Clipper (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3963/clipper-jumpship-standard)'s source is HB:HM (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/269/handbook-house-marik), page 139,  not the old HMSB (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/292/house-marik)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 14 March 2021, 17:53:47
The following units have AS Ability "FLAK", should be "FLK":
Von Luckner Heavy Tank (Star League) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3450/von-luckner-heavy-tank-star-league)
Osteon E (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5826/osteon-e)
Savage Coyote Z (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5831/savage-coyote-z)

The following unit has AS Ability "MQ", should be "MHQ":
Marco MR-6 ExplorerMech (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4594/marco-mr-6-explorermech)

Edit: According to TRO:VA(rev), p. 216,  the Marco-6 and -7 were produced for the SLDF. Availabilty should be assigned accordingly. [/edit]

The comment field of the Champion CHP-1Nb2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6765/champion-chp-1nb2) should be changed to "Original model with standard PPC.. replaced by ER PPC when available." Add missing "r" and replace ".." with ","

The Clipper (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3963/clipper-jumpship-standard)'s source is HB:HM (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/269/handbook-house-marik), page 139,  not the old HMSB (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/292/house-marik)

Thank you for finding all of these, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 March 2021, 18:15:29
The TH is in a goofy spot because it existed as an inner sphere power long before the Star League. The League itself is a constructed amalgamation including both IS and Periphery nations so it’s classified as Other
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 14 March 2021, 18:21:53
Thank you for finding all of these, fixed.
Sorry for nitpicking, the Champion comment field has the missing "r" fixed, but still contains the double sentence mark instead of a single comma.
Also the Von Luckner still says "FLAK" instead of "FLK".
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maingunnery on 14 March 2021, 18:32:57
The TH is in a goofy spot because it existed as an inner sphere power long before the Star League. The League itself is a constructed amalgamation including both IS and Periphery nations so it’s classified as Other
Right now it only has the SL era, could adding the AoW era help make things clear.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 March 2021, 19:11:40
The age of war is blissfully blank and will likely remain so until more sources are published
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 14 March 2021, 19:34:12
Sorry for nitpicking, the Champion comment field has the missing "r" fixed, but still contains the double sentence mark instead of a single comma.
Also the Von Luckner still says "FLAK" instead of "FLK".

It's all good, I unironically love nitpicks. I gotta admit that I skimmed that bit. Should be fixed now!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 14 March 2021, 19:40:25
The TH is in a goofy spot because it existed as an inner sphere power long before the Star League. The League itself is a constructed amalgamation including both IS and Periphery nations so it’s classified as Other

Hm...
The faction description for StarLeague General (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/90) says "Units on this list are available to Terran Hegemony, Star League Regular, and Star League Royal formations between 2570 and 2781."

The Inner Sphere General (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/55) description says: "This is an abbreviation for the unit being available to all tracked Inner Sphere factions.
Star League [era]:
Capellan Confederation, Draconis Combine, Federated Suns, Free Worlds League, Lyran Commonwealth."

No mention of a connection between IS General and Terran Hegemony.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 March 2021, 19:47:50
The Star league (including the TH) was recently separated from IS general for a number of reasons. They’re discrete lists. By 2570 the TH was basically second line militia for those worlds. The best of their gear was stripped out to give to royal divisions and regular units coming from the hegemony.

If we ever were to do AoW, TH would probably be is general. As of now it’s what we can do with the infrastructure we have
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 14 March 2021, 19:52:38
It's all good, I unironically love nitpicks. I gotta admit that I skimmed that bit. Should be fixed now!

Thank you. Just want to make sure to disagree without becoming disagreeable ;)

Should I rather write more, smaller posts to avoid such walls of text?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 March 2021, 19:53:48
Nope. We’re good with walls of text. Indeed we specialize in them
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 14 March 2021, 19:59:11
The Star league (including the TH) was recently separated from IS general for a number of reasons. They’re discrete lists.

That confirms what I had deduced from the observed changes to the MUL. That's why I proposed to place the TH logo in the same column as the other SL logos. Anyway, I see it as WIBNI, not really important.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 15 March 2021, 02:16:13
Kokou Defense Tank and its (XL) version have a listed BV,  but no PV or card.

Fix: generate a card and PV
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 15 March 2021, 02:26:59
In fact every non-mech unit from TRO: Golden Century needs a PV and card generated for it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 March 2021, 06:41:05
Thanks. In this case they’re just in the work queue rather than overlooked
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 16 March 2021, 00:48:51
Thanks. In this case they’re just in the work queue rather than overlooked

That seems fair
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 17 March 2021, 12:34:34
Two new factions have been added to the MUL.

The Escorpión Imperio is active between 3080 and 3140 (or the Jihad to Dark Age eras) and is a continuation of Clan Goliath Scorpion. The second faction, the Scorpion Empire, is a Dark Age-era evolution of the Imperio. Do note that due to the isolated nature of both factions, neither are currently a part of any General lists.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 17 March 2021, 18:33:31
I think the MUL announcement should read "complement", not compliment.

Surprisingly large unit list.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 17 March 2021, 18:50:52
I think the MUL announcement should read "complement", not compliment.

Surprisingly large unit list.

Hah! For once it's not me making that mistake.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 17 March 2021, 19:12:51
Mistakes are my greatest proficiency
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 17 March 2021, 19:26:20
Sadly, that one is ALL too common (speaking as both an editor and Dean of Students)...  ::)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 18 March 2021, 01:32:41
At least someone effected that correction quickly. 8)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 18 March 2021, 20:41:18
This seems to be a mismatch between display and search fields in the database:
The Blackjack (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/373/blackjack-bj-1) is shown as "Date Introduced: 2757"
However, if you select by Basic Filters: Intro (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=blackjack&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=2771&MaxIntro=2771&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=), you will need to include the year 2771 in the MinIntro/MaxIntro range to display it.

In addition, TRO:SW, p. 68 states:
Quote
Deployment
The Blackjack saw little service with the Star League,
and production soon halted. Relegated to service with
Hegemony planetary militia or sold off to League member
states, the Blackjack can still be found on the battlefield
today.



During the SL era, the Tracker (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5270/tracker-surveillance-standard) is at the same time "Extinct" and available for the TH.
According to TRO3057rev, p.186 "several remained in service until the end of the Reunification War [...]", so reports of its demise may have been somewhat premature.

The Leviathan JS (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4502/leviathan-jumpship) is listed as "Extinct" by the Early Succession War and follow-on eras, but one is still in use by Hannibal's Hermits (Mercenaries Supplemental II, p. 44) in 3067. Maybe "Unique" would be a better fit.

The Prairie Schooner (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=prairie+schooner&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=) and its trailer are each listed twice, once in TRO:VA, once in TP:Irian. Since the two sets show different, but complementary information, they should be merged, not simply one of them deleted. The "Role: Scout" seems to be a strange one for a supersized delivery truck. ;)

The Von Rohrs/Hebis (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3455/von-rohrs-hebi-von-4rh-5) should be extinct in the SL era, the last one was dismantled in 2518 according to TRO3075, p. 208.

And a nitpick especially for GreekFire  ;)
The Thunderbolt TDR-5Sb2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6766/thunderbolt-tdr-5sb2) is missing 2 capitalizations in the "Notes" field.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 18 March 2021, 21:01:48
Blackjack: [an old source I did not have access to has contradicting data. Stay tuned]

Tracker: Likely TH was added but extinct was not removed by accident (or extinct was added by mistake). fixed.

Leviathan: not my account, pass

Prairie Schooner: Investigating to figure out which stats are the correct ones

Von Rohrs: That checks out. Extictified. Pretty sure there's a full-page art piece of two Von Rorhs in one of the 1/2 Succession Wars Books. Awkward.

Thunderbolt: Heinous crimes against punctuation have been resolved

Edit: Prairie Schooner records merged, duplicates hidden. Scout will stay on for now - nckestrel is the role master and will pass judgement.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 18 March 2021, 21:37:03
Blackjack: There are two fields for dates - one for a numeric, and one for alphanumeric in case we need to enter Unknown or somesuch.
That's what I meant by "Search" and "Display" fields.

Any comment on the BJ's availabilty during the SL era?

Quote
Leviathan: not my account, pass
Would it help the MUL team if I group my reports somehow?

Quote
Thunderbolt: Heinous crimes against punctuation have been resolved
Reminder to self: Don't drink coffee in front of the laptop ;D

Thanks for the quick fixes!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 18 March 2021, 21:40:50
The blackjack is more complicated than expect. Talking it over
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 18 March 2021, 21:48:15
Don't sweat it, I was just unsure if my little experiment with nested lists might have somehow gone awry as you replied to everything else.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 18 March 2021, 22:04:23
That's what I meant by "Search" and "Display" fields.

Any comment on the BJ's availabilty during the SL era?

the 1X prototype debuted in 2756. there is an old version of the BJ-1's record sheet that has the 2771 date - we're trying to figure out if that's in error or not.


Quote
Would it help the MUL team if I group my reports somehow?

nah. i passed it along to the more knowledgeable aero people
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 18 March 2021, 23:07:52
I posted a feedback a couple of weeks ago, here (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/master-unit-list-(mul)-feedback-thread-ii-read-the-first-post/msg1702096/#msg1702096). Does not seem to have been processed; did I do it wrong?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 19 March 2021, 07:43:06
I posted a feedback a couple of weeks ago, here (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/master-unit-list-(mul)-feedback-thread-ii-read-the-first-post/msg1702096/#msg1702096). Does not seem to have been processed; did I do it wrong?

Thanks for the reminder, the JES IIIs are corrected now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 19 March 2021, 11:36:54
Blackjack: Opted for 2757 as intro.

Leviathan JS: We'll assume Hannibal's Hermits found a repairable derelict craft (or were supplied one by the wobbies). It was then likely destroyed with the rest of the unit during the Jihad.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 19 March 2021, 16:36:07
Somebody should probably let Tex know about the Blackjack... he did a LONG video on that one...  ^-^
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 19 March 2021, 17:17:56
Somebody should probably let Tex know about the Blackjack... he did a LONG video on that one...  ^-^

There shouldn't be any issues, the date remains unchanged from what was previously displayed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 19 March 2021, 17:19:06
He might feel compelled to... ahem... "comment" on it...  ^-^
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 19 March 2021, 17:28:32
He might feel compelled to... ahem... "comment" on it...  ^-^

On what? I'm confused. Nothing changed, the public introduction date for the Blackjack is the same as it was before. We just reviewed it to make sure everything worked out the way we wanted it to.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 19 March 2021, 17:30:10
Have you watched his videos?  ???
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 19 March 2021, 17:44:26
Have you watched his videos?  ???

Continued in PMs as this is derailing the thread.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 20 March 2021, 00:36:12
Thanks for the reminder, the JES IIIs are corrected now.

Thank'ee kindly!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 20 March 2021, 00:58:12
Blackjack: Opted for 2757 as intro.

Leviathan JS: We'll assume Hannibal's Hermits found a repairable derelict craft (or were supplied one by the wobbies). It was then likely destroyed with the rest of the unit during the Jihad.
Thanks for the heads-up. Looks perfect now  :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 22 March 2021, 16:24:43
so when i said changes to the site's architecture weren't possible at this time... they became possible a few days after that  ;D.  Skyhigh is a gentleman and a scholar.

we've messed around with the organization of the faction pages. they now look like this
(http://puu.sh/Hry68/b5b058b7fb.png)

no more right-hand sidebar or icons up top. just click on the button and get the list.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: FenderSaxbey on 22 March 2021, 16:25:45
Wow! That is a huge usability improvement. Thanks, MUL team!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 22 March 2021, 16:35:30
That is nice.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 22 March 2021, 16:47:25
I love the fact we now live in the Age of War.  I'm only surprised it doesn't go back to the dawn of human history... 8)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 22 March 2021, 16:48:41
conveniently labeled as Pre-Spaceflight
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 22 March 2021, 16:53:57
Even if spaceflight started 50 years before that...  ^-^
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 23 March 2021, 08:48:57
so when i said changes to the site's architecture weren't possible at this time... they became possible a few days after that  ;D.  Skyhigh is a gentleman and a scholar.

we've messed around with the organization of the faction pages. they now look like this
(http://puu.sh/Hry68/b5b058b7fb.png)

no more right-hand sidebar or icons up top. just click on the button and get the list.

Does it go straight to the list now? When the Scorpion factions were added I noticed those buttons. However, clicking on them took me to the page for the overall era, and THEN I had to scroll down to find my faction of choice and clicking on that took me to the actual list.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 23 March 2021, 08:53:54
that has been fixed (or should have been). i was holding off on posting about it here until it worked correctly
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 23 March 2021, 08:59:46
Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 03 April 2021, 14:48:56
You may have said to yourself: Can I navigate between eras of a faction on that factions page? Previously the answer was no (unless you paid very close attention to the numeric codes for eras and manually altered the urls). We've made life easier for those of you who don't want to push the back button

(http://puu.sh/Hvum6/1cd91432d9.png)

Second - a backend solution for grouping tractors and trailers of trains like the Prairie Schooner turned out to have an unexpected benefit: unit groupings. Previously when you clicked on a unit, only the units with that specific name would appear with it. For example, going to the page for a specific Dragon would only list other Dragons and leave out Grand Dragons. A similar predicament occurred with the Hatamoto family. With unit groupings, all units of the same type now list together.

(http://puu.sh/Hvurx/2b72ad4101.png)

The Asshur Artillery Spotter was considered a separate unit from the Asshur Reconnaissance Vehicle. Now they all list together. This does not include units that are closely related like the Loki and Loki II. We are currently working internally to figure out which side of the line some groups of units fall on and will post a list of everything that has been linked so far once that work is completed.

Thanks should again be directed to Skyhigh for managing the MUL and implementing changes.

Note that as we wind this thread down and begin chapter 3 that this space really is the best way to get our attention in regard to changes. Sometimes we catch wind of things on other platforms like the big BattleTech discord groups or Facebook, but we're not able to see or field everything out there. Someone on Facebook found a problem with the Falcon's ComStar availability but it only got changed because Hammer saw the comment. We want to be responsive to community requests (even if the response is no) but we do not have enough coverage for all of the communities.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 05 April 2021, 11:28:18
The MUL lists both the Newgrange III (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4714/newgrange-iii-yardship-standard)  and the Eyrines (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4713/newgrange-iii-yardship-eyrines) variant as "Advanced Aerospace - JumpShip".

Use of compact K-F cores and (in the Eyrines' case) a mass driver marks them as Warships, according to Strategic Operations pp. 148f. (K-F) and Tactical Operations, p. 321 (mass driver).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 05 April 2021, 12:32:25
The MUL lists both the Newgrange III (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4714/newgrange-iii-yardship-standard)  and the Eyrines (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4713/newgrange-iii-yardship-eyrines) variant as "Advanced Aerospace - JumpShip".

Use of compact K-F cores and (in the Eyrines' case) a mass driver marks them as Warships, according to Strategic Operations pp. 148f. (K-F) and Tactical Operations, p. 321 (mass driver).

Thanks, fixed.
Also: Woohoo! Page 50!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 05 April 2021, 17:26:11
New thread:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/master-unit-list-mul-feedback-thread-iii-read-the-first-post/