Author Topic: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee  (Read 146757 times)

Kovax

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Like a Phoenix, but Purple
« Reply #60 on: 25 September 2018, 08:12:56 »
"The Free Worlds League - Thread Title Deadlocked In Committee"

I feel like I should argue with it, just out of principle, but it's just too FWL to turn down.  You've got yourself a winner, at least in my opinion.

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #61 on: 25 September 2018, 08:41:58 »
I'm looking forward to mixing Ogres into my BA forces. Sustained SRM fire...yum.
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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #62 on: 26 September 2018, 05:17:22 »
I'm looking forward to mixing Ogres into my BA forces. Sustained SRM fire...yum.

This.
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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #63 on: 26 September 2018, 09:07:00 »
I thought the Ogre was available general market-  IIRC it was a revenue stream with it being a widely available merc BA.

For me it goes something like . . .

Tufana, Marauder 9M2, Merkava Mk IX, Patriot series

The Merkava & Patriots trade places depending on how much I want a solid MBT style tank vs a LB-20X.  I just wish we had gotten a Merkava X with 3150 updates . . . MML & HFF!
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Drewbacca

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #64 on: 27 September 2018, 10:42:27 »
Quick! I need a League world that was once a Hegemony world or better yet a joint-owned world.

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #65 on: 27 September 2018, 10:46:26 »
El Giza
Colt Ward
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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #66 on: 27 September 2018, 13:21:26 »
So I was thinking of this for a upper end FWL theme'd Quick Reaction Force militia battalion.  Two armor companies mixing Gauss and LB-10X, mech company of two BA platoons & IFV transport, fire support company with artillery and a cav squadron of 12 attack VTOLs could be loaded on 24 Longhaul clone flights with about 80t of supplies to go with them to whatever zone.

16 Vedette V9
8 Vedette (Cell)
8 Main Gauche IFV/4 IS Std & 4 Longinus
4 Main Gauche/4 Ballista/4 Goblin (LRM)
12 attack VTOLs- Hawk Moths, Hawk Moth IIs, Aerons, etc- no Yellow Jackets, lol

This allows the militia to redeploy a decently effective blocking force against a company of mechs with support.  Their primary purpose of course would be to buy time in a blocking position to allow militia to mobilize and re-deploy into the combat zone.  Or to reinforce whatever is on site to protect assets.
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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #67 on: 27 September 2018, 14:07:24 »
Quick! I need a League world that was once a Hegemony world or better yet a joint-owned world.

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GespenstM

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #68 on: 30 September 2018, 10:39:16 »
So here's one I'm having trouble getting a good feel for in Alpha Strike: The Mad Cat III (Standard).

It does good damage for its speed, IF3 is obviously nice too, but... when I play around with it, it feels like it dies too easily. Speed 12" helps with getting it into favorable locations, certainly, but if something manages to hit it... yow. 5 Armor and 3 Structure feels like it might be a tad too fragile for the movement modifiers in question, nearly anything in its point range (or close to it) can deal 4 damage a hit, often more.

So I'd like to reach out and get thoughts from others. Have you used it before in Alpha Strike and if so how did it go? I'm conflicted, since it has lots of great features but some obvious problems too.

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #69 on: 30 September 2018, 10:55:39 »
You've already hit on the biggest obstacle to using one: it's a priority target that is not particularly durable.  More than most things it needs to use cover and terrain to avoid being the first head on the chopping block, and if you have the opportunity to use cheaper and less effective units as screens that's a good place to do it.  That means that you make sure the screening unit is a Medium range with a TMM of +3 or worse and the Mad Cat III is at long range so that the other unit is the more attractive target so your opponent can either risk wasting shots on a poorer shot to take out the Mad Cat III, or they take the easier shot at the less valuable unit.  Alternately, you can also screen with a heavily armored unit that's likewise worthy of attention.  In either case, reducing line of sight from as many enemy units as possible is still paramount.

In this way, the Mad Cat III is best used as a striker/skirmisher, avoiding committing to the main fight until a target of opportunity (isolated by terrain, within one-shot-kill territory, or with a good position out of multiple firing arcs of enemy units available) presents itself and then take the shot, overheating if necessary, then fade again.  Much like in Total Warfare, knowing when not to shoot is an important and difficult skill to learn.  IF3 really helps with this, because you can more easily justify keeping a prime damage dealer out of the fight contributing indirectly.

The Mad Cat III in such an engagement can frequently end up facing opposing skirmishers, especially the ones fast enough to force a confrontation.  In a pinch, the Mad Cat III also functions as a good scout hunter, because most of the things that can catch up to it are not going to survive more than one round of fire, and anything that ends up in Short range of it is probably going to just die to an 8 damage sledgehammer at low numbers, especially if you're supporting it with any smaller units that can contribute to finishing the target off.
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GespenstM

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #70 on: 30 September 2018, 13:27:43 »
Matches up with what I got in playing against myself, so... yeah. I get the feeling the Mad Cat III is paying a lot for Indirect Fire 3 and a little bit for the Overheat, as the Black Hawk 2 offers very similar performance for 6 points less if you ignore IF3 and such.

Another odd thing I've noticed: The Grand Titan N11M and the Juliano have their damage scores plunge based on the inclusion of the ERPPC and ERLLs in their calculations. Without them, you'd wind up with damage values like 7 short/mid for the Juliano, and 7 for the Grand Titan as well at those same ranges. It's weird.

Both are still clearly good machines in Alpha Strike, but the abstraction of damage definitely did some weird stuff to these two.

Edit: Though I guess you could say this reflects that SSRMs are very 'sandblast'-y and would take a while to truly do major damage, thus representing a dip in their AS rules damage. Hmm.
« Last Edit: 30 September 2018, 13:32:12 by GespenstM »

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #71 on: 30 September 2018, 13:36:54 »
Offensive PV calculations are very straightforward in Alpha Strike.  The Mad Cat III pays 3 points for IF3, and 1.5 points (1-2depending on rounding in other areas of the PV) for OV3, then another single point for the higher Long range damage.  That said OV IS something you shouldn't underestimate.  It's tempting to run everything heat neutral,  but intelligent use of OV tips scales.

The Juliano is one of maybe six units in the game with OV4.  In the right circumstance,  pumping up to 9 damage will wipe an entire medium mech or tank off the board in one go.

The JLN-5C by my calculations is going to be 7/7/3 with OV4, and that's going to [deleted] hurt.
« Last Edit: 30 September 2018, 13:49:33 by Scotty »
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GespenstM

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #72 on: 30 September 2018, 13:46:26 »
Those are about the numbers I got too.

It's a shame we don't have record sheets for a lot of the stuff mentioned in TRO 3145/3150. I'd like to see the Tempest 4M, Tempest C, and Juliano 5C. Still have no idea what happened to those...

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #73 on: 30 September 2018, 22:01:27 »
I really want the stats for the two new Tempests. It's a design that I have recently come to appreciate, and I do have a love for SNPPCs
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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #74 on: 01 October 2018, 21:21:55 »
Forgive me if I've asked about this before, but I'm curious how the 'Mercenary' MUL info interacts with FWL forces. Is it the sort of thing you'd be allowed to grab one or two machines from when building a FWL regiment, or is it strictly mercenaries only?

I ask due to a curiosity about a few machines such as the Rakshasa and Jade Hawk.

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #75 on: 01 October 2018, 21:23:11 »
Literally every list is "grab one or two machines when building a FWL regiment".

All of them.
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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #76 on: 01 October 2018, 21:34:53 »
Forgive me if I've asked about this before, but I'm curious how the 'Mercenary' MUL info interacts with FWL forces. Is it the sort of thing you'd be allowed to grab one or two machines from when building a FWL regiment, or is it strictly mercenaries only?

I ask due to a curiosity about a few machines such as the Rakshasa and Jade Hawk.

You're less likely to see those units in service with an FWL unit than a Merc unit.  That said, not impossible, either by salvage or by absorbing another unit.  Heck, it's not impossible that the Suns sold the FWL some at some point:  I remember vividly in one of the Comacho's Caballeros books a Kuritan unit having a Stealth, and Teddy K being really glad he bought it.  And while House Davion and House Marik aren't necessarily bosom chums, they DEFINITELY get along better historically than House Davion and House Kurita.
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GespenstM

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #77 on: 02 October 2018, 21:23:51 »
As I poke at Alpha Strike more, I notice that the Heat attack ability seems very strong. Reducing your enemy's movement and adding +1 to their attack to-hit value is impressive; you wind up doing more damage, and take less damage. I feel like this would make Liao a very strong foe in many ways due to their heavy use of Plasma.

Am I missing something here, or is Heat (HT#/#/#) as impressive as it looks?

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #78 on: 02 October 2018, 22:28:37 »
HT is very good.  It's not over the top ridiculous, because taking HT on everything isn't practical, since HT is capped at 2 external per turn.  Units sitting in water don't particularly mind much (sink an extra heat), units with RHS don't particularly mind much (same thing), units with TSM will come up and ask to shake your hand for helping them out, etc.

It's also fairly difficult to generate multiple HT# on a single unit.  In order to qualify, you have to get to a minimum of 1.0, while Plasma Rifles generate 0.3/0.3/- and Flamers 0.2/-/-.  Plasma Cannons generate 0.7/0.7/0.7 but most IS units don't mount those (and you still need two).
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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #79 on: 02 October 2018, 23:25:33 »
Yup, it's every bit as good as it sounds. Better, even - against non-heat units, HT is simply extra damage.

However, it is very difficult to achieve. A single Plasma Rifle isn't enough for HT1/1, and there simply aren't that many multi-plasma units out there. You can do it with flamers, but abilities that only work at short range aren't all that useful in Alpha Strike. The very large portion of most AS games take place at medium range, and short-range encounters are pretty rare in my experience. How many medium-range heat units are even out there, and how many of them are non-Clan?
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Scotty

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #80 on: 02 October 2018, 23:31:04 »
Off the top of my head, the non-clan HT units at medium range are:

Crusader 8L
Warhammer 5L
King Crab 009 (Dark Age version)
Hanse MBT

uh...

There's a Catapult that can do it

The Morgenstern A, but I only know that because I looked up HT on Aero units a while back

I'm sure there are more than that but I'm also pretty sure I hit like two thirds of them just now.  It's really not a common Special.

EDIT: and every single one of them is HT1/1/-, none of them are HT2 or have it at long range.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #81 on: 03 October 2018, 01:13:44 »
Clearly we need a Perseus configuration to do the job.
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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #82 on: 03 October 2018, 08:48:19 »
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=true&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=HT&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&Factions=55&Factions=30&Factions=59&Factions=74&Factions=67&Factions=72&Factions=76&Factions=75

Here's a list of all canon units any FWL faction gets access to that has HT. Unsurprisingly, a fair number of the mechs are Clan designs with plasma cannons. Take care with the vees, as the MUL also listed things with trailer hitches, or HTC.
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Kit deSummersville

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #83 on: 03 October 2018, 09:25:06 »
Mock the Loki all you want, it can unleash HT2 at long range!
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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #84 on: 03 October 2018, 09:56:01 »
Mmmmm...spend the points to give that Loki a good gunner, cook a target at long range, and on the next turn all your other guys that didn't get improved pilots get easy shots because there's little to no TMM to deal with. :)
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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #85 on: 03 October 2018, 12:12:01 »
Sarath has HT2/2.  But it’s FWL access has a big asterisk unless you’re playing a very current game.
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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #86 on: 03 October 2018, 21:36:34 »
Sarath has HT2/2.  But it’s FWL access has a big asterisk unless you’re playing a very current game.

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Like a Phoenix, but Purple
« Reply #87 on: 04 October 2018, 10:46:36 »
"The Free Worlds League - Thread Title Deadlocked In Committee"

I didn't know we coulkd change thread titles.


Old thread hit 50 pages, new thread is necessary.  I'm accepting alternate ideas for thread titles, but let's get this one started. :D
I kind of like the thread title, but it somehow lacks the true FWL attitude.  I'm thinking more like: The Free Worlds League Topic, but we couldn't agree on a thread title.

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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #88 on: 04 October 2018, 10:51:42 »
Quote
What Fontaine needs to address is the Wolf Empire, which sits one jump from Tamarind. The same goes for Captain-General Nikol.

 Nikol is tainted
As a descendant of the traitor Fake Thomas he will never be legitimate.

Fontaine is a fool
« Last Edit: 04 October 2018, 10:55:14 by Lord Cameron »
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Re: The New Free Worlds League: Thread Title Deadlocked in Committee
« Reply #89 on: 04 October 2018, 11:42:09 »
Nikol is tainted
As a descendant of the traitor Fake Thomas he will never be legitimate.

Fontaine is a fool
Yet both have more cojones than any true Marik that's still alive.
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