’Mech of the Week: Sphinx

[Istal_Devalis]

They do?

Well I certainly think so, anyways. There's a few exceptions (there always are) but the majority of Clan Mechs rely on ERPPCs, ERLL's and LPL's for their long range firepower. You half the incoming damage from energy guns, and a lot of Clan mechs are suddenly at a pretty large deficit when it comes to exchanging volleys at range.

[va_wanderer]

Well I certainly think so, anyways. There's a few exceptions (there always are) but the majority of Clan Mechs rely on ERPPCs, ERLL's and LPL's for their long range firepower. You half the incoming damage from energy guns, and a lot of Clan mechs are suddenly at a pretty large deficit when it comes to exchanging volleys at range.

Honestly, one of those upgrades from hell would be the day they managed to intergrate reflective armor technology into a less-brittle form. Even if it only reduced damage by 25% (or 33%, which would mitigate Clan ER PPC fire to "no longer headcaps) or so instead. It's one of those armors I expect to see more of in the post-DA era as a "standard" technology.

Because, honestly. The scariest designs in the game are energy boats. People rightly fear the Awesome, Hellstar and others like it. And the Sphinx may not be quite up there, but it's a nasty-fast laser carrier.

[Kojak]

Well I certainly think so, anyways. There's a few exceptions (there always are) but the majority of Clan Mechs rely on ERPPCs, ERLL's and LPL's for their long range firepower. You half the incoming damage from energy guns, and a lot of Clan mechs are suddenly at a pretty large deficit when it comes to exchanging volleys at range.

It occurs to me that reflective armor is doubly useful against Clan 'Mechs because reflec's main vulnerabilities are to artillery and physical attacks, two things almost never encountered in combat with Clanners.

[chanman]

The proper place for reflective armour is on aerospace fighters, where they nullify the ability of many fighters to cause thresholding.

[Diablo48]

Honestly, one of those upgrades from hell would be the day they managed to intergrate reflective armor technology into a less-brittle form. Even if it only reduced damage by 25% (or 33%, which would mitigate Clan ER PPC fire to "no longer headcaps) or so instead. It's one of those armors I expect to see more of in the post-DA era as a "standard" technology.

While an improved reflective armor is possible, it would be sort of like a less capable version of Ferro-Lamellor armor in that it eats mass and crits to provide improved protection and thus could not fully replace standard armor even neglecting supply considerations.

Because, honestly. The scariest designs in the game are energy boats. People rightly fear the Awesome, Hellstar and others like it. And the Sphinx may not be quite up there, but it's a nasty-fast laser carrier.

Not really.  There are plenty of other designs like the Thunder Hawk and Bane 3 which offer overwhelming firepower without relying on energy weapons so it would not be a total win.

[Headshot]

The proper place for reflective armour is on aerospace fighters, where they nullify the ability of many fighters to cause thresholding.

I respectfully disagree.
Certain light Mechs. Like the Venom.
Reflective armor makes them competitive again.
Optimize a Venom KC style (endo, DHS, personally i also throw in a XL gyro on designs like this), but use reflective instead of ferro.
The result is simply scary. Especially in small scale engagements, where you rarely encounter things like arty.

[Diablo48]

I respectfully disagree.
Certain light Mechs. Like the Venom.
Reflective armor makes them competitive again.
Optimize a Venom KC style (endo, DHS, personally i also throw in a XL gyro on designs like this), but use reflective instead of ferro.
The result is simply scary. Especially in small scale engagements, where you rarely encounter things like arty.

Agreed, lights need the extra defense against Pulse Lasers and generally have the crits to spare for reflective armor.  They also have a strong dislike for melee combat because they generally take a lot worse than they can give even without the penalties of reflective armor and the speed to avoid it so that should not be a problem either.  The only real weakness that leaves is AE weapons like artillery cannons which become horrifically powerful, but they are relatively rare so you can probably hope not to run into them.

[Sabelkatten]

Not really.  There are plenty of other designs like the Thunder Hawk and Bane 3 which offer overwhelming firepower without relying on energy weapons so it would not be a total win.

It would certainly make AMS a lot more popular when fighting clanners. The only clan weapons that can really compete with their energy weapons are LRMs, packing reflec along with AMS will seriously nerf clan forces!

Against IS the problem is that the king of weapons isn't energy or missiles, it's the GR.

[Jellico]

It sounds good when you have the reflective armor, but what happens when both sides have it? Long drawn out games? Conversely what about a force with heavy energey weapons vs a reflective unit? Short unballanced games?

Sure, its all about picking mixed forces, but in many ways it increases the oportunities for unballanced games.

[Diablo48]

It would certainly make AMS a lot more popular when fighting clanners. The only clan weapons that can really compete with their energy weapons are LRMs, packing reflec along with AMS will seriously nerf clan forces!

That is a good point, and got me thinking about designing a true IS counter to Clan assaults which is posted here:

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,253.msg437933.html#msg437933

[Istal_Devalis]

It's one of those armors I expect to see more of in the post-DA era as a "standard" technology.

We do see a lot of it. That's why they switched its tech rating to Advanced. It's to 'complicated' for tournament use, but it's now in mass production.

If the TC+ERML Sphinx gets a record sheet, I think it'll be up there in terms of 'scary' too. 10 aimed ERML's can chew through a location ridiculously quick.

It sounds good when you have the reflective armor, but what happens when both sides have it? Long drawn out games? Conversely what about a force with heavy energey weapons vs a reflective unit? Short unballanced games?

Sure, its all about picking mixed forces, but in many ways it increases the oportunities for unballanced games.

Between Reflective and Reactive being in mass production now, people will be forced to use mixed units so they arent screwed if they face certain enemies. As a bonus, the good old AC doesnt have anything to 'counter' it, so we should be seeing it more often. Things are working as intended, I think. If, with the knowledge of this in your head, you still want to risk fielding a force of nothing but Clan ERPPC's, you cant really complain if your gamble fails when your opponent has a force of laser reflec+blue shielded mechs on his force.

[va_wanderer]

It sounds good when you have the reflective armor, but what happens when both sides have it? Long drawn out games? Conversely what about a force with heavy energey weapons vs a reflective unit? Short unballanced games?

Sure, its all about picking mixed forces, but in many ways it increases the oportunities for unballanced games.

Getting your head bashed in because you walked right into something like the aforementioned reflec armor force vs. Mr. Energy Boats is the perfect lesson for any BT player.

Don't overspecialize. Mix it up. Energy weapons have enough dominance that increased use of reflec wouldn't be a bad idea in the least, especially once it gets out of experimental use post-3080. Heck, reflec all by itself negates the most popular headcappers in the Clan arsenal, the Clan ER PPC and reduces it from a kill shot to simply melting most of the armor. That right there would save tons of pilots. Sure, Gauss Rifles still do the job, but that's universal.

Think about it. How many 'Mechs don't carry any energy weaponry whatsoever? :)

[Neufeld]

Think about it. How many 'Mechs don't carry any energy weaponry whatsoever? :)

Um, off the top of my head: standard SW Javelin, several Crossbow configs, the Mad Dog with dual HAG/30s, Hollander, WLF-3M, HER-5ME, Galahad (IS version) and Sun Cobra.
Some, but not really all that many.

[va_wanderer]

Um, off the top of my head: standard SW Javelin, several Crossbow configs, the Mad Dog with dual HAG/30s, Hollander, WLF-3M, HER-5ME, Galahad (IS version) and Sun Cobra.
Some, but not really all that many.

Now, compare that with all-energy loadouts (and energy-dominant ones, for that matter)...which seem to be far more common. Makes that reflec armor more attractive by the minute, although larger-scale use would likely make more mixed-type layouts popular.

[Fallen_Raven]

I'm noticing that the Sphinx bears some similarities to the Penetrator. Mainly that it has paired large energy weapons for long range, and a rather accurate short range energy battery at close range. In both cases it produces a powerful anti 'mech unit, but limits the effectiveness against other threats. In light of that, I would tend to use the Sphinx as solid the anchor of a force, and bring in other 'mechs to provide flexibility and responses to said other threats.

Um, off the top of my head: standard SW Javelin, several Crossbow configs, the Mad Dog with dual HAG/30s, Hollander, WLF-3M, HER-5ME, Galahad (IS version) and Sun Cobra.
Some, but not really all that many.

Add the Garm to that list.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Blitzkrieg and Legionnaire (RAC variant anyway) as well.

[LordChaos]

Someone's going to have to explain this short-ranged C/ERML thing to me because I didn't realize that standard Large Lasers and AC/10s were short-ranged guns now.

They aren't.  It's just that some people seem to think that games with clan mechs are played by parking at 20 hexes and taping down the firing button.

[Sabelkatten]

Someone's going to have to explain this short-ranged C/ERML thing to me because I didn't realize that standard Large Lasers and AC/10s were short-ranged guns now.

They aren't.  It's just that some people seem to think that games with clan mechs are played by parking at 20 hexes and taping down the firing button.

When fighting clanners LLs and AC/10s are short-ranged. cERLLs have a medium range longer than 15 hexes! But personally I perfer to call those weapons "medium-ranged", and that includes the cERML. After all they still outrange standard MLs and such by a comfortable margin!

However it's worth noting that a short-range weapon and a short-range weapon battery isn't the same thing, which may be causing some confusion in this thread. A cERML does have a pretty long range, but since it's the weapon the Sphinx uses at short range it's part of the "short-range battery". Heck, I once designed a clan mech with LB10s and LPLs as "short-range" guns! ;D

[TigerShark]

They aren't.  It's just that some people seem to think that games with clan mechs are played by parking at 20 hexes and taping down the firing button.

They do when your army comp is poor and can't deal with that tactic.

[Diablo48]

They do when your army comp is poor and can't deal with that tactic.

The other variant is to keep falling back to keep the enemy at around 20 hexes while you pound on them.

[Istal_Devalis]

In light of that, I would tend to use the Sphinx as solid the anchor of a force, and bring in other 'mechs to provide flexibility and responses to said other threats.

Considering how much the Cats seem to favor long range, I tend to think of it more as a 'bodyguard' unit. It's there to punish an opponent who's trying to close to short range and thus mitigate the LR gun advantage. The ERLL's are mostly there to 'keep up' with the other LR guns in the unit.

[Dragon Cat]

Considering how much the Cats seem to favor long range, I tend to think of it more as a 'bodyguard' unit. It's there to punish an opponent who's trying to close to short range and thus mitigate the LR gun advantage. The ERLL's are mostly there to 'keep up' with the other LR guns in the unit.

This is how I've seen and used the Sphinx from day one.  The Nova Cats are pretty much the poor Clan now especially with the Homeworlds Clans a distant memory, the Republic screwed them over royally when they invited forces to stay - the Cats that had fought with Stone were never going to go back to the hornets nest that is the Combine.  This leaves them short on forces and short on OmniMechs.  Since the Nova Cats have taken on more and more Inner Sphere practices and their two nearest enemies (the Combine and Dominion) do pretty much the same the Sphinx's role comes in far clearer.

It's a second-line Mech so I'm not hugely surprised it has drawbacks and a limited role.

Instead of having the Sphinx in your one on one traditional Clan battle put it into a team/Star fight.  The Sphinx is a nice bodyguard unit for the Nova Cats OmniMechs.  It has a movement profile to allow it to act as a flanking unit for the slower heavies and assault and it has plenty of close in firepower just in case someone gets too close.

Pairing a Nova Cat OmniMech with a pair of Sphinxes and a pair of Supernovas is an inexpensive way of making a very nasty Heavy/Assault Star and for a Clan that isn't able to field entire Stars of Omnis you start to see why the Sphinx is attractive it's solid, uses weapons other units use and is able to support other Elements of the Touman.

[Istal_Devalis]

We could do worse then adapting Blood Spirit design practices, honestly. Helps we actually like the ERLL to begin with.

[oldfart3025]

The Sphinx is an excellent "flashbulb" design. Anything my group uses an all-energy load-out 'Mech for, the Sphinx has a place.

The Sphinx 2 is a new favorite for special hunter-killer teams designated and equipped to hunt down advanced Special Forces stealth 'Mechs. In our campaigns, these units are a serious headache to any player team. Exterminators, Spectors, and Werewolves are the most common. But in recent times, the Raptor II and Stealth-5X have begun to make a name for themselves. We even have home-brewed Spec-Ops versions of the Chameleon and Morpheus using these systems. Normally, the HK 'Mechs assigned are all-energy weapons assault and heavy designs, since these targets are deadly in capability and pilots among the hyper-elite. The Sphinx 2 fits the bill to a tee, with it's targeting computer and MASC system as an added bonus to it's capabilities.

Just my two cents worth.

[Kotetsu]

Added the latest two variants to the write-up.

[Istal_Devalis]

Ah, the Sphinx 3. That's the variant we've been waiting for since the Dossier showed up.
Especially fun with 'Aim High' rules available.

[daeceg]

I want to point out something that I didn't see--the Sphinx is also an area-denial weapon.  No one is going to get within ten hexes of a Sphinx if they have any say in the matter.  Sort of like how having a Blitzkrieg on the field dictates your opponents' movement options...the sheer face-melting power of 10 ER Mediums will keep people far away if they can.   The Sphinx is also a great body-guard for Kraken and other long-range units.  Hammer and anvil...

[Kotetsu]

I want to point out something that I didn't see--the Sphinx is also an area-denial weapon.  No one is going to get within ten hexes of a Sphinx if they have any say in the matter.  Sort of like how having a Blitzkrieg on the field dictates your opponents' movement options...the sheer face-melting power of 10 ER Mediums will keep people far away if they can.   The Sphinx is also a great body-guard for Kraken and other long-range units.  Hammer and anvil...

You haven't played with our group before... That is called a challenge, not an area-denial... Then again, one of my fellow players has a liking for the Nova Prime...