Author Topic: MechWarrior: Destiny  (Read 132033 times)

Wrangler

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #180 on: 06 August 2019, 16:17:58 »
Is SR6's system based on cue system?
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DarkSpade

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #181 on: 06 August 2019, 17:03:33 »
I just don't see how it can mesh with Total Warfare.


Is SR6's system based on cue system?

EDIT:  Ignore what I said before.  it is NOT the cue system.   From what I've read, it's a more streamline version of 5th with some big tweaks to edge.
« Last Edit: 06 August 2019, 17:14:12 by DarkSpade »
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #182 on: 06 August 2019, 17:04:53 »
I just don't see how it can mesh with Total Warfare.


Yeah.  It's just modified to have a GM and to insure that you're still rolling wads of d6s.


Are you 100% sure?  I am under the impression that Shadowrun: Anarchy uses the Cue system and that SR6 does not.

DarkSpade

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #183 on: 06 August 2019, 17:13:13 »

Are you 100% sure?  I am under the impression that Shadowrun: Anarchy uses the Cue system and that SR6 does not.

Bah!  Sorry, misread it.  >.<  Post fixed.

I'm actually looking forward to giving 6th ed a try.  Sounds like they simplified it a lot without going overboard like anarchy.
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #184 on: 06 August 2019, 17:40:30 »
Don't think there is any one system that makes everyone happy, may as well try something new and see what happens.

Certainly true and if this brings new fans into the fold so much the better.

I for one am willing to say from what I've seen of Cue systems, and I have looked at more than one version of it, it isn't for me but that doesn't make it bad.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #185 on: 06 August 2019, 18:16:39 »
I can see a possible market for a simple RPG add-on product to enhance the boardgame experience. Something filling the gap between Warchest campaign rules and full-on AToW roleplaying.
However, I'd expect such a product to connect to one or both of these rulesets, to give groups the option to scale their play detail level by switching between rules. From what's been said here so far, Destiny will be a standalone, completely unrelated and incompatible ruleset.
If true, that would be a surprising design decision.

Yeah, unless they make it an overlay for TW/AS  l can’t see it working out well.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #186 on: 10 August 2019, 06:33:31 »
All right... this coming weekend, I'll try to post a "streamlined" (or rather, fully explained) version of AToW character creation.  It may be a lot of bookkeeping (which spreadsheets vastly simplify), but it's really not that hard.  Really.
OK, here goes...

First, before doing any math, get an idea of the kind of character you want.  This should suggest age, Affiliation, and at least the kind of Higher Education (Stage 3) you should be looking at.  The Stage 3 you're considering will likely drive some choices for Stages 1 and 2 (e.g., the pre-requisites for Military Academy).  Age will suggest how many and what kinds of Stage 4 modules you take.  Try to avoid repeating Stage 4 modules other than those that don't grant Attributes (e.g., Civilian Job).

Second, do a first approximation by simply adding up the top line costs of the modules you're considering.  You should compare this to 5,000 (or whatever your GM gives you) plus 100 XP per year over 21 if you're IS, or 18 if you're clan (or -100 XP per year under).  Add any particularly expensive Traits you want to take (say, 800 XP for that Assault 'mech).  If the two numbers are within about 1,000 XP of each other, your concept is probably doable, though you may need to take some negative traits to balance things out.

Now you come to the bookkeeping.  There are several spreadsheets posted on the boards here that can help with this (not just mine).  BiggRigg42 has also done a few YouTube videos on the process.  If you insist on doing it by hand, the best way to keep track of things is to group them by Attributes, Traits and Skills per module.

Rules of thumb:
1) Shoot for minimum Attributes of 4 (except EDG).  This is "average", and also the minimum score that won't inflict skill penalties.
2) If you have a minimum requirement above 4, consider taking an Attribute to 7 (where you get a +1 to related skills).
3) As others have noted, Fast Learner will pay for itself if you invest in enough skills.  Similarly, if you have few enough skills, and don't plan to play long term, Slow Learner may be worth it.
4) Don't forget the aging effects on Attributes on page 333.
5) Also don't forget that you must purchase 20 XP in an Affiliation Primary or Secondary Language, 20 XP in Language/English, and 10 XP in Perception (per page 52, under Universal Fixed Experience Points; this section also ensures you have at least 100 XP in each Attribute).
6) The Skill Field/Rebate rules are on pages 70-71.  The gist of these is that you pay 30 XP to get 30 XP in each skill listed in the field (Fields are chosen from the options presented in the Master Schools List on pages 72-73; the Master Fields List is on pages 82-85), and THEN get 6 XP per skill back as Flexible XP to spend during optimization.  Basically, you're only paying 24 XP per skill for 30 XP in those skills.
7) If optimizing without a spreadsheet, the table on page 85 is your guide for skills.  Attributes and Traits mostly cost XP evenly divisible by 100, so optimizing those should be even simpler.
8) Optimization is simply the harvesting of "excess" points that don't get you to the next level of Attribute, Trait or Skill, and you can spend them anyway you like.
9) Remember that negative Traits acquired via Life Modules don't count toward the maximum 10% of starting XP limit on negative Traits.  The limit only applies to negative Traits you take above and beyond those.  This is one of the reasons the "first approximation" works.
10) Don't forget Attribute minimums and pre-requisites for Modules or Skill Fields.

DarkSpade

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #187 on: 10 August 2019, 08:09:32 »
...plus 100 XP per year over 21 if you're IS, or 18 if you're clan (or -100 XP per year under).

Where is this in the rule book?
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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #188 on: 10 August 2019, 08:13:43 »
Page 49, under "Starting Allotments".

DarkSpade

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #189 on: 10 August 2019, 08:26:02 »
Only affirms my belief that the character creation rules aren't difficult, it's just how poorly they're written/organized.
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #190 on: 10 August 2019, 08:34:30 »
Organization could use some work, sure.  Of course, that applies across ALL the rule books...

Teulisch

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #191 on: 10 August 2019, 08:44:47 »
rules complexity, especially front-loaded complexity, is a problem for some rules systems. While i do enjoy system complexity, its better when the complexity isnt as front-loaded. layout is also important, the core rules need to be easy to find. if it takes too long to make a character, then you lose players.

AToW had too much front-loaded complexity, combined with a lack of any clear example of how it should be done. I had one look at it, and gave up on the edition entirely. never played it, never finished reading it. its just collecting dust next to my copy of Cyborg Commando.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #192 on: 10 August 2019, 08:49:41 »
Well, if you ever decide to give it another chance, there are a few of us here who are more than willing to help.  When I have players do character creation for me, I have them tell me what they want, then develop a strawman for the both of us to tweak.

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #193 on: 10 August 2019, 12:46:17 »
Bah!  Sorry, misread it.  >.<  Post fixed.

I'm actually looking forward to giving 6th ed a try.  Sounds like they simplified it a lot without going overboard like anarchy.

The issues with 6th is that they did little streamlining and much more simplifying to the point where logic was thrown out the window for ease of use.
examples;
1. Armor does little to nothing in the game.
Armor added to body gives you a DR (defense rating) and that is compared to the weapons AR (attack rating) if DR is 4 more then AR you get +1 edge, if AR is 4 more then DR the attacker gets +1 edge, if neither is 4 higher its a wash. Armor does nothing but that and if your AR/DR is more then 4+ you get nothing more. By the way there really is nothing all that great about +1 edge you need much more for it to truly be effective. Also armor doesn't make you any harder to hit or provide any damage reduction.

2. Modifiers are mostly gone.
The edge system is the core of the game and tries and fails to handle all modifiers in the game. Edge gain is also limited to gaining only max 2 per turn/round (there is currently a fight on this one) so any gain after that is lost, you are also limited to carrying only 7 edge at any one time, and edge gains have some logic defying rules behind it.
Like the example most used on the Shadowrun forum: A sniper in a hurricane fires at a NPC also in the hurricane, since both combatants are suffering the same effects neither gains edge or suffers any modifiers, so its a wash and the sniper attacks as if he was unaffected and it was a bright and shiny day.

overall the system is a mess and needs a complete rewrite to be playable.

hf22

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #194 on: 12 August 2019, 04:23:56 »
There is an interview with Brent Evan's at GenCon which provides some new information regarding Destiny.

Apparently a Clan companion book is planned, GMs are optional and there will be some material designed to add a light role-playing touch to a traditional BT tabletop game.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq30RWzIXaU&feature=youtu.be

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #195 on: 12 August 2019, 06:39:30 »
The issues with 6th is that they did little streamlining and much more simplifying to the point where logic was thrown out the window for ease of use.
examples;
1. Armor does little to nothing in the game.
Armor added to body gives you a DR (defense rating) and that is compared to the weapons AR (attack rating) if DR is 4 more then AR you get +1 edge, if AR is 4 more then DR the attacker gets +1 edge, if neither is 4 higher its a wash. Armor does nothing but that and if your AR/DR is more then 4+ you get nothing more. By the way there really is nothing all that great about +1 edge you need much more for it to truly be effective. Also armor doesn't make you any harder to hit or provide any damage reduction.

2. Modifiers are mostly gone.
The edge system is the core of the game and tries and fails to handle all modifiers in the game. Edge gain is also limited to gaining only max 2 per turn/round (there is currently a fight on this one) so any gain after that is lost, you are also limited to carrying only 7 edge at any one time, and edge gains have some logic defying rules behind it.
Like the example most used on the Shadowrun forum: A sniper in a hurricane fires at a NPC also in the hurricane, since both combatants are suffering the same effects neither gains edge or suffers any modifiers, so its a wash and the sniper attacks as if he was unaffected and it was a bright and shiny day.

overall the system is a mess and needs a complete rewrite to be playable.
Gotcha, stick with SR5.
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Thorvidar

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #196 on: 12 August 2019, 07:38:46 »
The issues with 6th is that they did little streamlining and much more simplifying to the point where logic was thrown out the window for ease of use.
examples;
1. Armor does little to nothing in the game.
Armor added to body gives you a DR (defense rating) and that is compared to the weapons AR (attack rating) if DR is 4 more then AR you get +1 edge, if AR is 4 more then DR the attacker gets +1 edge, if neither is 4 higher its a wash. Armor does nothing but that and if your AR/DR is more then 4+ you get nothing more. By the way there really is nothing all that great about +1 edge you need much more for it to truly be effective. Also armor doesn't make you any harder to hit or provide any damage reduction.

2. Modifiers are mostly gone.
The edge system is the core of the game and tries and fails to handle all modifiers in the game. Edge gain is also limited to gaining only max 2 per turn/round (there is currently a fight on this one) so any gain after that is lost, you are also limited to carrying only 7 edge at any one time, and edge gains have some logic defying rules behind it.
Like the example most used on the Shadowrun forum: A sniper in a hurricane fires at a NPC also in the hurricane, since both combatants are suffering the same effects neither gains edge or suffers any modifiers, so its a wash and the sniper attacks as if he was unaffected and it was a bright and shiny day.

overall the system is a mess and needs a complete rewrite to be playable.

I dont think its an unplayable mess. I can make a character relatively easily. I can also go through combat as a mage and not be nuking every group of enemy combatants with one or two spells. I love magic users and the system can be broken in that I can push hard, one shot a boss, and have a bloody nose from doing so, but be fine overall in SR5. Magic is more balanced in SR6, now am I happy with how edge is implemented? No not really, but to say the game is unplayable is a bit hyperbolic. Its like me saying Atow is unplayable because the combat system sucks. In reality the game is unplayable  because how many people can get past making a character.....

Am I happy with how the soaking of damage works now, nope. The thing is damage values are lowered by quite a bit, instead of doing 6 DV before adding hits, now Its 3 before adding hits. most pistols do 2 DV maybe 3 DV. AP is not a thing, so now I just roll body. Dodging is now more of a thing and blocking with your blade is now a thing in close combat.





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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #197 on: 12 August 2019, 07:53:56 »
Too much Shadowrun in the BattleTech thread...
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Sartris

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #198 on: 12 August 2019, 07:56:34 »
There is an interview with Brent Evan's at GenCon which provides some new information regarding Destiny.

Apparently a Clan companion book is planned, GMs are optional and there will be some material designed to add a light role-playing touch to a traditional BT tabletop game.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq30RWzIXaU&feature=youtu.be

The last bit is what I’m mostly interested getting from the system though a How to Clan supplement would not be unwelcome

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #199 on: 12 August 2019, 11:15:49 »
There is an interview with Brent Evan's at GenCon which provides some new information regarding Destiny.

Apparently a Clan companion book is planned, GMs are optional and there will be some material designed to add a light role-playing touch to a traditional BT tabletop game.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq30RWzIXaU&feature=youtu.be

I like companion books and supplements. Any BT-based RPG doesn't need the supplements as much since we already have a wealth of table top resources, but The MechWarrior's Guide to... series for MW3rd are still some of my most-read books.
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #200 on: 12 August 2019, 15:43:27 »
Did Brent happen to mention anything about AToW continuing in parallel?  ???

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #201 on: 12 August 2019, 21:39:44 »
Did Brent happen to mention anything about AToW continuing in parallel?  ???

I don't think it came up, but it didn't sound like he was thinking of it as a replacement.

An RPG for people who have never played an RPG before was the basic pitch, which sounds like it would have it's own niche (consistent with how this system has been used for Shadowrun I suppose).

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #202 on: 13 August 2019, 01:42:49 »
Did Brent happen to mention anything about AToW continuing in parallel?  ???
He didn't (tp my knowledge).
But AToW and Destiny seem to be so inherently different that I reckon they can co-exist without much overlap; and perhaps the latter may yet serve as an entryway to RPing in the BT universe, thus promoting the former at least indirectly.
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #203 on: 13 August 2019, 02:53:30 »
He didn't (tp my knowledge).
But AToW and Destiny seem to be so inherently different that I reckon they can co-exist without much overlap; and perhaps the latter may yet serve as an entryway to RPing in the BT universe, thus promoting the former at least indirectly.

I don't know about that, I see AToW as a pretty much dead/abandoned game in the support it gets.
There have been many books that where great places for AToW info, but the most we got was a small regional cost list or here's the affiliations of this time list that was rarely more the one or two pages. Overall I'm not sure if CGL is planning a AToW revised/MechWarrior 5th edition RPG to come out after MechWarrior: Destiny or just going to drop the idea of a full RPG and push MechWarrior: Destiny as a replacement.
It strikes me as far fetched to think that CGL will do anything to support AToW with MechWarrior: Destiny coming out as they did little to support it without another RPG to promote.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #204 on: 13 August 2019, 03:55:39 »
Thanks hf22 and Frabby!  :thumbsup:

I think Frabby's point is as long as AToW remains available, Destiny might encourage more people to try it.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #205 on: 13 August 2019, 04:07:59 »
Well, best us RPG-fans can hope for, is a permanent RPG-section in the new magazine with scenarios and such. And for these, double stats for AToW and MW:D should be doable.
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #206 on: 13 August 2019, 04:15:57 »
Thanks hf22 and Frabby!  :thumbsup:

I think Frabby's point is as long as AToW remains available, Destiny might encourage more people to try it.

Not sure about your preferences, but most of the players I know and I normally will not run a RPG game where we can't get a dead tree copy.
As AToW is not available in hard copy on DTRPG or the CGL store you would have to get it from Amazon or eBay
Cheapest on Amazon: $274 dollars
Cheapest on eBay: $150 dollars

As there doesn't seem to be any indication that CGL will be putting out a new or revised print of the game anytime soon, I can't see MechWarrior: Destiny encourage many player to switch to it, also keep in mind that AToW is a completely different type of game then MechWarrior: Destiny and players who would enjoy it are not really the type that would fined AToW appealing.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #207 on: 13 August 2019, 14:53:28 »
I kind of wished they would just use a d20 system like D&D, but with support for mech combat so you don't have to setup a Total warfare or Alpha Strike game. It is a system that most RPG players know which would bring more people on board. But I hope this new way to do role playing will work out.
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #208 on: 13 August 2019, 15:46:38 »
Personally I wouldn't want to see D20 used for a BT RPG, I find setting-specific rules so much better than generic or adapted systems. Our local gaming group has stayed with MW2E for simplicity and easy integration with tabletop BT. In fact I didn't realise they were considered separate things for a year or two!  ;D

I'll give MW:Destiny a look, but from what I'm hearing it it's unlikely to suit me. OTOH I think Shadowrun peaked with 3rd Ed so YMMV
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #209 on: 13 August 2019, 15:58:09 »
I like using the TT rules for mech combat in an RPG game as that is what most players are familiar with, and those players that are new can get into a pick up game with out being confused by a different set of rules for the same game.

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