MechWarrior: Destiny

[Thorvidar]

Well in some cases you can point out balancing issues or bottle necks. Give feedback on a new mechanic and give some fine adjustments. But your right, your not changing the system from the ground up if you hate the system.

[Pat Payne]

The problem with Monopoly is that it was originally designed to not be fun - it was meant to be an indictment of the concepts of real estate and renting, but it was sold to Parker Brothers by an opportunist who claimed he had invented it and omitted the moralistic elements.  They also bought the original version and released it, but it was not as popular as the Monopoly branding.

So if you don't enjoy playing the game?  Well, that's the point.

IIRC, the original version of The Landlord's Game included what we'd call the classic Monopoly rules as a variant meant to be didactic also ("see? we told you that the fat cats would just screw you over. Maybe next time you'll listen to us.") However, people actually enjoyed that version, and to the creators' dismay, that seems the have been the one that got played the most, and that was the one that got sold to Parker Bros.

[DarkSpade]

BETA testing isn't development.  It's to have fresh eyes on it to see if something obvious was overlooked.  I see this in software BETAs as well; people sign up expecting to be like a project manager, directing where the program goes, then are disappointed/angry when all of their suggestions are "ignored".

Yes, but if the game is coming out in 4 months and the beta hasn't even been released yet, I don't see any kind of feed back making a difference unless someone finds something like, "hey, you forgot the entire chapter on tanks."

Pretty much what happened with riggers in Anarchy if I remember correctly.

[Chrisbfisher]

I just hope this thing goes back to it's roots of 2nd Edition. That was simple, fast paced, and integrated PERFECTLY with Battletech and Aerotech. I am NOT a fan of them making a new system that's completely different from Battletech and won't seemlessly integrate with it. They need to use the character creation from Shadowrun and the mechanics of second ed. That would work and work awesome.

[nckestrel]

Yes, but if the game is coming out in 4 months and the beta hasn't even been released yet, I don't see any kind of feed back making a difference unless someone finds something like, "hey, you forgot the entire chapter on tanks."

Pretty much what happened with riggers in Anarchy if I remember correctly.

Beta testing won't change the product into something it's not. If there's a mechanic that isn't working, or something is missing, or something isn't stated clearly, those can all be fixed.
It won't change an action RPG into a turn-based RPG.

But lots of things can change in beta.

[dgorsman]

And anything duh-stupid that's missing is more often than not "out of scope".

[DarkSpade]

Beta testing won't change the product into something it's not. If there's a mechanic that isn't working, or something is missing, or something isn't stated clearly, those can all be fixed.
It won't change an action RPG into a turn-based RPG.

But lots of things can change in beta.

I'm not talking about a complete rewrite of a system from beta feed back.  I'm saying that with the amount of time left, I don't expect anything more complicated than a spelling error to get changed.

I'm under the impression they're releasing the beta as a preview and not for testing.

[nckestrel]

Ha, I’m usually given a week to make changes on books I’m the (assistant) developer on.  Four months is forever.  It’s a book, not a video game.  The part that takes the most time is actually getting people to give feedback (and giving them enough time to actually play with it).  The changes themselves don’t take that long.

[Ursus Maior]

I'm under the impression they're releasing the beta as a preview and not for testing.

In the second AMA CGL specifically stated, they want our input for the Beta.

[Sharpnel]

During the last AMA, Randall said many times that the Beta is a true Beta. They want and expect feedback so that they can make changes and fix as many bugs, if/when necessary.

[Charistoph]

Beta testing won't change the product into something it's not. If there's a mechanic that isn't working, or something is missing, or something isn't stated clearly, those can all be fixed.
It won't change an action RPG into a turn-based RPG.

But lots of things can change in beta.

You'd be surprised how often that has happened, at least in the video game front.  A lot of mechanics will get completely rewritten or even removed if they are proving to be a hindrance to the desired flow of the game.  Those changes can affect the character of a game.  Admittedly, it is easier to patch software than it is to patch a printed book these days, though.

[DarkSpade]

is there a summery of the last AMA anywhere?

[General308]

is there a summery of the last AMA anywhere?

I don't think so.  But you can still watch it if you want.

[victor_shaw]

I don't think so.  But you can still watch it if you want.

They stated that they would post the answers after they had time to organizes them and try to answer question that they missed from the comments.

[BiggRigg42]

Is there any word on when or how Kickstarter backers will get access to the beta?

[Teulisch]

Is there any word on when or how Kickstarter backers will get access to the beta?

a couple weeks, or september at the latest, is what was said in the AMA.

[Crimson Dawn]

The real question is, have you ever played Monopoly without any house rules(like collecting cash in the free parking spot)?  It's those rules that make the game so awful.  Everyone always blows off the bidding rules too, and those can cut the game time in half.

I do wonder who it's going to appeal to.  Anarchy made sense in theory since there's people out there that love the shadowrun world, but felt 5th ed was way too over complicated.  In my opinion it went way too far, but it still made sense.   For battletech though, I'm not so sure.  Isn't battletech's real draw its mechs, and not it's potential for roleplaying?

Here's a thought, what if instead of being designed to integrate easily into Battletech, Destiny is designed to integrate with Alpha Strike?

I was about to mention this I have never seen anybody ever play Monopoly by the actual rules (how many people have money given on free parking?) and I bet that is true for many people here.  It actually makes a good cautionary tale for anyone talking modifying a game without any concept of the consequences of the changes.  In Monopoly's case almost every common houserule (that many people think are actual rules) makes the game slower and take longer (bringing up the previous example giving money on free parking increases player money thus keeping them in the game longer while also not forcing auto bidding causes properties to sit longer both of these extend the game).

At least so far in Battletech everything I see at least looks like it speeds up the game rather than slowing it down.

[Daryk]

Is there any word on when or how Kickstarter backers will get access to the beta?

I believe they'll post a pdf to the dropbox.

[Cubby]

a couple weeks, or september at the latest, is what was said in the AMA.

I'm still editing the thing, layout is working on the chapters that I've finished and were approved by the dev. It'll be a couple weeks yet.

[CommanerVibral]

I'm still editing the thing, layout is working on the chapters that I've finished and were approved by the dev. It'll be a couple weeks yet.

I have a group of four players waiting for the Beta to drop so we can start up a game of Destiny/Total Warfare. We are all very excited.

[mbear]

Did Brent happen to mention anything about AToW continuing in parallel?  ???

I don't think it came up, but it didn't sound like he was thinking of it as a replacement.

An RPG for people who have never played an RPG before was the basic pitch, which sounds like it would have it's own niche snip

Based on this statement (and nothing else) it sounds like MW:D has the same relationship to ATOW that the BT:Beginner's Box has to BattleMech Manual or Total Warfare. It's a simplified, streamlined version of the rules to hook new addicts gain new players. Then once they're familiar with the rules for movement, combat, etc. they can add more options from the other products.

As for tabletop integration (which I agree would be a great idea) didn't FASA do something like that with the Renegade Legion series? Maybe I'm mistaken.

[Ursus Maior]

I don't see, where this analogy of MW:D being the Beginner Box to AToW could hold up. MW:D is a separate rule system, called the Cue System, and not a dumbed down version of AToW. Also, we can expect future products for MW:D, while the Beginner Box is a stand alone box. There won't be a Clan Invasion versions of it or something like that.

MW:D will in fact be a separate product line and it will speak to a very different audience than AToW. If an analogy needs to be drawn, MW:D will be to role-paying gamers what Alpha Strike is for miniature gamers.

[Istal_Devalis]

As someone who got tired of having to pull up spreadsheets, and having to write down numbers on scratch paper, to figure out modifiers: I'm all for trying out streamlined, narrative based systems. Let's get the beta going, already :D.

Most of the recent systems I've invested in have been more on the narrative end as is. Why not one more?

[Cubby]

Based on this statement (and nothing else) it sounds like MW:D has the same relationship to ATOW that the BT:Beginner's Box has to BattleMech Manual or Total Warfare.

Not correct. They're separate rules systems. The analogy is Shadowrun to SR Anarchy.

[Tiger1833]

I’m guessing that it’s to late to back/get the pdf

[nckestrel]

They just opened the pledge manager for people that missed the KS to make a pledge.  I think that means you would get it, but I’m not certain.

[NutritiousSlop]

So has the beta been released yet? I backed the Kickstarter in the run-up to $2 million. I have a group of mostly novices who are interested.

[General308]

So has the beta been released yet? I backed the Kickstarter in the run-up to $2 million. I have a group of mostly novices who are interested.

No

[victor_shaw]

So has the beta been released yet? I backed the Kickstarter in the run-up to $2 million. I have a group of mostly novices who are interested.

No

Its getting kind of tight to the deadline on this one.
CGL needs to watch out this doesn't become their first slip in the Kickstarter.
I understand that they underestimated the time needed for the Pins, Shirts, Etc.
But not being able to hit this will send a bad sign for the rest of this or any future Kickstarter(s).

[DarkSpade]

I don't remember the beta being a stretch goal though.  Thought it was just something they tossed in for free.