Author Topic: MechWarrior: Destiny  (Read 132888 times)

kinwolf

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #660 on: 27 September 2019, 19:57:07 »
You don't need to process "every post" for the "forum" to be heard.  There are a few issues here that have been debated at length and in detail by multiple users, with participation from apparent powers that be.  Again, I've submitted several issues by the requested form.  I'm just saying that establishing the form shouldn't give TPTB a free pass from reading their official forum.

I am obviously not a dev, but after reading the pdf in the last 3 days I came back to this thread to see if such and such point were discussed.  It's simply painful to do so(and the search feature of SMF is seriously lacking) and it's kinda tiring trying to follow a conversation as it's too broken up by other comments in btw.  And then someone will post a relevant post 3 pages later than the rest of the main conversation because he was late to the discussion.

My suggestion?  Fill out the form with one subject in it, and put a link to the relevant posts.

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #661 on: 27 September 2019, 19:59:45 »
actually, it does, at least in this specifc context.
*snip*
That's your opinion, and you're as welcome to it as I am to mine.

Being that TPTB actually comment here from time to time, that indicates they DO read the forums, and they shouldn't ignore the threads about new products.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #662 on: 27 September 2019, 20:07:14 »
And for the record, I just tried to submit the range issue via the form, and the comment section literally isn't long enough to explain all the implications.  It's simply too complex an issue to fit in 500 characters...

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #663 on: 27 September 2019, 20:09:02 »
Fix rng pls
Kthxbye

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Asgo

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #664 on: 27 September 2019, 20:17:55 »
That's your opinion, and you're as welcome to it as I am to mine.
sure, and so is CG. :)

Quote
Being that TPTB actually comment here from time to time, that indicates they DO read the forums, and they shouldn't ignore the threads about new products.
there is a difference between ignoring and not using it as a structured/guaranteed way of input.
there is a reason why the feedback form contains categories and references.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #665 on: 27 September 2019, 20:24:47 »
I'm just saying that establishing the form shouldn't give TPTB a free pass from reading their official forum.

It absolutely does. Your position is unreasonable in the extreme. You think these forums being official means Ray or Randall need to read the thousands of posts personally? How else would they know which handful matter.

Ridiculous.
But I dont think I can change your mind.
The solution is just ignore Paul.

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #666 on: 27 September 2019, 20:29:10 »
Fix rng pls
Kthxbye
Which explains exactly none of the implications.

*snip*
there is a difference between ignoring and not using it as a structured/guaranteed way of input.
there is a reason why the feedback form contains categories and references.
And there's also a difference between reading these forums and ignoring them.
The "categories and references" also don't provide enough space to explain all the implications of poor design...

It absolutely does. Your position is unreasonable in the extreme. You think these forums being official means Ray or Randall need to read the thousands of posts personally? How else would they know which handful matter.

Ridiculous.
But I dont think I can change your mind.
That's pretty much the exact opposite of what I just said.  They do NOT need to read every post.  But the range issue (as one example) has been discussed at length and in detail by numerous posters.  Even a quick skim of the this thread would be unlikely to miss it.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #667 on: 27 September 2019, 20:32:23 »
That's pretty much the exact opposite of what I just said.  They do NOT need to read every post.
In order to determine which posts are important, wouldn't they have to read them all?

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #668 on: 27 September 2019, 20:34:43 »
Shouting down the hallways at City Hall isn't going to renew your car registration Daryk.  TPTB are under no obligation to take this thread seriously.  This being the "official" forum does absolutely nothing to change that.
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kinwolf

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #669 on: 27 September 2019, 20:37:42 »
That's pretty much the exact opposite of what I just said.  They do NOT need to read every post.  But the range issue (as one example) has been discussed at length and in detail by numerous posters.  Even a quick skim of the this thread would be unlikely to miss it.

A quick skim of 23 pages...?   

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #670 on: 27 September 2019, 20:41:32 »
As I have said repeatedly in this very thread, I have posted the issues I've brought up here via the official form.  The trouble is, the official form doesn't have enough space to explain things in the detail they've been discussed here, which should bear on the eventual resolution (or non-resolution) of the issues in question.

A quick skim of 23 pages...?   
Yes, a "quick" skim of 23 pages, which is quite a bit less work if you're scanning your "official" forums regularly.

Asgo

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #671 on: 27 September 2019, 20:45:37 »
Shouting down the hallways at City Hall isn't going to renew your car registration Daryk.  TPTB are under no obligation to take this thread seriously.  This being the "official" forum does absolutely nothing to change that.
nice way of sneaking in a car comparison. :thumbsup:


general point, ironically every post on this meta discussion is degrading the usefulness of this thread as a direct feedback source - highlighting the advantage of one way feedback forms, they tend not to drift into tangential discussions. ;)

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #672 on: 27 September 2019, 22:49:03 »
Which explains exactly none of the implications.

No shit? I figured using 2005 era text talk would appropriately parody the difficulty of the tiny character limit
« Last Edit: 27 September 2019, 22:50:59 by Sartris »

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Dahmin_Toran

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #673 on: 27 September 2019, 22:49:11 »
You can explain the range issue in less than 500 words.

Mendou

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #674 on: 27 September 2019, 23:00:29 »
You can explain the range issue in less than 500 words.
Quite simply, in fact: "Some players are unable to alter their perception of BattleTech to fit within the structure of a narrative system".

Orin J.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #675 on: 28 September 2019, 01:21:34 »
As I have said repeatedly in this very thread, I have posted the issues I've brought up here via the official form.  The trouble is, the official form doesn't have enough space to explain things in the detail they've been discussed here, which should bear on the eventual resolution (or non-resolution) of the issues in question.

if you can't fit your explaination of the problem in the form, there's a fair chance the problem is less mechanical and more preferential. they're looking for the former, so try to cut it down to what's not working and if you can't, either look at it from another angle or drop the matter entirely. i've done my fair share of betas, and while it might feel right to tell them what you don't like about it in a 12-page essay*, they can't get much use out of it and you'll get ignored.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #676 on: 28 September 2019, 01:28:51 »
I read this forum.
That said:
Please send feedback where it was requested. We have a process, please follow it. We’d really appreciate it.
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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #677 on: 28 September 2019, 04:04:36 »
Sir: I have, and I'm glad to hear you're following the more detailed discussion here.

Paul

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #678 on: 28 September 2019, 05:53:15 »
Sir: I have, and I'm glad to hear you're following the more detailed discussion here.

 ;D
Your Mech at the next game will have 3 arms and 1 leg. :p
The solution is just ignore Paul.

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #679 on: 28 September 2019, 06:20:34 »
Oohh, a quad!   :D

Cubby

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #680 on: 28 September 2019, 07:30:47 »
Edit: nevermind
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skiltao

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #681 on: 28 September 2019, 12:55:55 »
Question from someone who hasn't read the beta and whose contact with narrative systems has been limited:

The term "narrative play" is pretty broad, and encompasses a variety of narrative styles, of which Kung Fu Dynamite is but one. Does Destiny favor one style of narrative in particular, whether mechanically or in its assumptions or mood or advice? Should it?
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victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #682 on: 28 September 2019, 13:24:27 »
Question from someone who hasn't read the beta and whose contact with narrative systems has been limited:

The term "narrative play" is pretty broad, and encompasses a variety of narrative styles, of which Kung Fu Dynamite is but one. Does Destiny favor one style of narrative in particular, whether mechanically or in its assumptions or mood or advice? Should it?

Easiest way ti describe it is "pass the baton role playing".

Pat Payne

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #683 on: 28 September 2019, 14:04:37 »
Question from someone who hasn't read the beta and whose contact with narrative systems has been limited:

The term "narrative play" is pretty broad, and encompasses a variety of narrative styles, of which Kung Fu Dynamite is but one. Does Destiny favor one style of narrative in particular, whether mechanically or in its assumptions or mood or advice? Should it?

(Pardon the potentially long post, and spoilers for a near-40-year-old movie below  ;D)

I think, reading it over that it is supposed to be cinematic in scope, like the players and GM are making a collaborative movie almost. From what I can see, this would be a typical scene if The Wrath Of Khan were played with this system:

Nicholas, the GM: From the screen, Khan smiles triumphantly. "I give you sixty seconds," he sneers, "for you and your valiant crew." Bill, what does Kirk do?
Bill (playing Kirk): Kirk crosses over to Saavik at her control station. He ponders for a moment, and tries to recall starship operations.
Nicholas: OK, make a Knowledge roll. (Nicholas rolls for difficulty, Bill's knowledge roll beats his). OK. Tell me what Kirk finds out.
Bill: Sure. He remembers that each starship has a prefix code meant to stop hijackings like this. We're going to try to hack into his ship and bring his shields down. "Saavik, punch up the records for Reliant's command console. Hurry. Keep nodding like I'm giving orders." And I pass the mic over to Kirstie.
Kirstie (playing Saavik): I'm punching up the data now. Do I need to make a roll?
Nicholas: I'm gonna say yes, just as you're under a time crunch. BTW, Khan says "45 seconds."
Kirstie: All right. (Both make their rolls, and Kirstie's fails.) Drat. Can I spend a point of Edge?
Nicholas: Go for it.
Kirstie: OK, I'm going to make you reroll that difficulty. (Nicholas rerolls, and is lower than Kirstie's roll.)
Nicholas: Nicely played. The info for Reliant's command console appears on your console.
Kirstie: And I'll pass the mic to Leonard.
Leonard (Playing Spock): As they're doing that, Spock is pulling up the prefix number for Reliant at the Science station. (Both Leonard and Nicholas make their rolls, and Leonard wins.) He walks back down to the helm console where Kirk and Saavik are. Standing stoically with his back to the screen, he whispers to Saavik. "Reliant's prefix code is 16309." He says to Kirk "He's quite intelligent. How do we know he hasn't changed it?" Nick, you can have the mic back.
Bill: I'm going to spend a plot point to take the narration.
Nicholas: Sure.
Bill: As he's keying in information, he asks Khan "How do we know you'll keep your word?"
Nicholas: We'll go into Talk Time briefly. Khan says "Oh, I've given you no word to keep. In my judgement, you simply have no alternative."
Bill: "I see your point. Stand by to receive our transmission." He cuts the sound, and whispers to the weapons officer to lock weapons.
Nicholas: You're going to have to make a roll, remember that Khan isn't a dummy.
Bill: OK. (Makes a Perform roll, against Khan's Perception. Bill wins.)
Nicholas: Looks like you got one over on him. He says "Time's up, Admiral."
Bill: Kirk says, in as defeated a manner as he can, "Here it comes. Now, Spock."  I turn the mic over to Kirstie.
Kirstie: I'm going to pass to see what Leonard does.
Leonard: Spock keys in the prefix code and transmits it. And I'm passing the mic back to you, Nicholas.
Nicholas: You see utter pandemonium on the Reliant's bridge, as one of Khan's crewmembers yells that the shields are going down. Khan screams in rage "Override! Where's the override!?" before the signal cuts.
 

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #684 on: 28 September 2019, 14:42:16 »
I read Cosmic Patrol when that RPG came out, and I've seen a number of the HyperRPG/Harebrained shows, so the concepts of "passing the baton" and decentralized scene control are not unfamiliar to me.

Would you say the system leans more towards TOS Star Trek cinema for kinds of actions and style of action, as opposed to other kinds of cinema? Or did you mean that the system favors episodic "Wrath of Khan" scale incidents?
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #685 on: 28 September 2019, 14:54:56 »
(Pardon the potentially long post, and spoilers for a near-40-year-old movie below  ;D)

I think, reading it over that it is supposed to be cinematic in scope, like the players and GM are making a collaborative movie almost. From what I can see, this would be a typical scene if The Wrath Of Khan were played with this system:

Nicholas, the GM: From the screen, Khan smiles triumphantly. "I give you sixty seconds," he sneers, "for you and your valiant crew." Bill, what does Kirk do?
Bill (playing Kirk): Kirk crosses over to Saavik at her control station. He ponders for a moment, and tries to recall starship operations.
Nicholas: OK, make a Knowledge roll. (Nicholas rolls for difficulty, Bill's knowledge roll beats his). OK. Tell me what Kirk finds out.
Bill: Sure. He remembers that each starship has a prefix code meant to stop hijackings like this. We're going to try to hack into his ship and bring his shields down. "Saavik, punch up the records for Reliant's command console. Hurry. Keep nodding like I'm giving orders." And I pass the mic over to Kirstie.
Kirstie (playing Saavik): I'm punching up the data now. Do I need to make a roll?
Nicholas: I'm gonna say yes, just as you're under a time crunch. BTW, Khan says "45 seconds."
Kirstie: All right. (Both make their rolls, and Kirstie's fails.) Drat. Can I spend a point of Edge?
Nicholas: Go for it.
Kirstie: OK, I'm going to make you reroll that difficulty. (Nicholas rerolls, and is lower than Kirstie's roll.)
Nicholas: Nicely played. The info for Reliant's command console appears on your console.
Kirstie: And I'll pass the mic to Leonard.
Leonard (Playing Spock): As they're doing that, Spock is pulling up the prefix number for Reliant at the Science station. (Both Leonard and Nicholas make their rolls, and Leonard wins.) He walks back down to the helm console where Kirk and Saavik are. Standing stoically with his back to the screen, he whispers to Saavik. "Reliant's prefix code is 16309." He says to Kirk "He's quite intelligent. How do we know he hasn't changed it?" Nick, you can have the mic back.
Bill: I'm going to spend a plot point to take the narration.
Nicholas: Sure.
Bill: As he's keying in information, he asks Khan "How do we know you'll keep your word?"
Nicholas: We'll go into Talk Time briefly. Khan says "Oh, I've given you no word to keep. In my judgement, you simply have no alternative."
Bill: "I see your point. Stand by to receive our transmission." He cuts the sound, and whispers to the weapons officer to lock weapons.
Nicholas: You're going to have to make a roll, remember that Khan isn't a dummy.
Bill: OK. (Makes a Perform roll, against Khan's Perception. Bill wins.)
Nicholas: Looks like you got one over on him. He says "Time's up, Admiral."
Bill: Kirk says, in as defeated a manner as he can, "Here it comes. Now, Spock."  I turn the mic over to Kirstie.
Kirstie: I'm going to pass to see what Leonard does.
Leonard: Spock keys in the prefix code and transmits it. And I'm passing the mic back to you, Nicholas.
Nicholas: You see utter pandemonium on the Reliant's bridge, as one of Khan's crewmembers yells that the shields are going down. Khan screams in rage "Override! Where's the override!?" before the signal cuts.

Put that in the rulebook.

Word.
For.
Word.
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Giorgio76

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #686 on: 28 September 2019, 18:28:15 »
Feedback #3
The section on Traits and Life Modules (ps.79-151) are useful to have in the Character Creation section (ps.88-76), not in the Gear section, as it requires flipping back and forth (or printing out two pages) when creating military or combat focused PCs.
.
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Mendou

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #687 on: 28 September 2019, 22:19:31 »
Feedback #3
The section on Traits and Life Modules (ps.79-151) are useful to have in the Character Creation section (ps.88-76), not in the Gear section, as it requires flipping back and forth (or printing out two pages) when creating military or combat focused PCs.
.
(Feedback already submitted via survey link, posted here for conversation purposes.)
You may want to double-check those page numbers, especially the set which appears to be numbered backwards ^_-

Traits and Life Modules are on pp. 151-152, and Character Creation is on pp. 68-74.

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #688 on: 29 September 2019, 06:21:56 »
I reported that issue early on (with the correct page numbers).

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #689 on: 29 September 2019, 07:25:28 »
Put that in the rulebook.

Word.
For.
Word.
Yes! :bow:
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