Author Topic: MechWarrior: Destiny  (Read 128311 times)

Talen5000

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #840 on: 03 February 2020, 14:37:20 »
With the lifepath system you have random results included, what makes your character unique. But sometimes also an unwanted result. In my eyes the biggest improvement of a lifepath system is that you already have a basic story arc for your character when finished. I see too many players playing generic characters without any background story what is lame for other players and GM.

And some players like that.

But if the GM wants a more detailed background, then he can insist on it and require the players to come up with at least some basic background for himself. SRuns old 20 question system is as good as system as any, and better than some, to generate a character background. But my objection remains...as much as I like the lifepath system and the inherent degree of randomness, it is far too complex and requires far too many pages to produce a character and it doesn't really offer anything to make that investment in time and page count worthwhile. Other systems can and do provide rules for customisation even if it Palladium Books Secondary Skill system or D&D trained use.

Anyhoo - I've said my piece. I like the LifePath system, don't get me wrong...but with Five Great Houses, Four periphery States, Twenty Clans and a myriad of independent powers and ComStar, never mind all the various eras, sub regions, sub affiiations, castes and so on (and that is just step Zero), never mind the wide choice of careers to fit a wider choice of campaign types, the lifepath system is not well suited to  creating a BT character.

It is too complex, requires too much math, takes up too much time for many and is too intimidating towards newer players

I don't think Destiny is an improvement. I think, in many ways it is a step back not least because the last thing the BT RPG needs is further rules fragmentation. But while AToW and MW3E had the right tone, there probably isn't a single aspect of either game that didn't need improvement or rewriting in some way.

But that is just my opinion and I've explained it before
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Panthros

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #841 on: 03 February 2020, 15:30:17 »
And some players like that.

But how many people use it or like it is the question?  I play Dungeon and Dragons, Pathfinder and other RPG's.  People have a character in mind, let them build it.  It's just stats on the paper.  There is a renaissance of RPG's taking place right now as so many new people learn to play role playing games thanks to the success of Dungeon and Dragon's 5th edition.  Mechwarrior Destiny should be capitalizing on this.  All you have to do is look at the basic rules for DnD 5th edition.  Personality and background is used to help the player.  With Mechwarrior, I would argue your allegiances or perhaps you don't care, where you grew up and how you became a mechwarrior is much more interesting than a lifepath random system.  I would argue a majority of people do not want a character with random traits or the level of complexity of traits that exist today. 

If you cannot keep it simple, people will move to another system, like in my example Mechwarrior 2nd edition.  DnD 5th was a look to the past and a look to the future but simply a breath of fresh air which is some of the reason for the success.  They brought people who skipped 4th or played older versions and the amount of new people is ten fold.  Mechwarrior Destiny should be the same.  I thought Catalyst was headed in that direction with the release of the Battletech Manual so I had high hopes for Mechwarrior Destiny.  Catalyst should ask some people who work on the Shadowrun team to assist with Mechwarrior Destiny as I see Mechwarrior Destiny going in the wrong direction.
« Last Edit: 03 February 2020, 16:44:27 by Panthros »

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #842 on: 03 February 2020, 17:52:33 »
I'll take Pathfinder over 5e any day, but this isn't about that RPG genre.  I really like AToW, even if it could use some tweaking (see my sig block).  I thought it was a step back from the insane (near Traveler level, even) randomness in 3rd Edition (not to mention the absolute non-starter of different dice), and simultaneously an improvement on the cookie cutter of 2nd (aka, Attributes über alles).  As others (and I) have said, the AToW life path system gives you a ready made framework for your background in a way SR's 20 questions simply can't.  The 20 questions method has no link to your stats or skills.  The life path lays the foundation of everything your character is, and even can be.

Bedwyr

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #843 on: 03 February 2020, 18:01:09 »
I think I agree with the main thrust of Panthros's point which is that there's a potential market for both high granularity and low granularity. Destiny represents an attempt at filling the low granularity need aimed at people with limited time, are newer at RPG gameplay conventions, or just prefer a more freewheeling kind of RPG storytelling. For me, assuming I could get a group together, it would be preferable to have both as the time investment to do AToW right, might not be a good match.
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monbvol

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #844 on: 03 February 2020, 18:06:53 »
Ultimately no game system will ever be perfect and I hope Destiny finds a large audience even if I'm not a part of that audience.

I also agree as much of an improvement over 3rd and even in some ways 2nd editions of Mechwarrior it could use some work to make it less daunting/intimidating.

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #845 on: 03 February 2020, 18:14:55 »
As long as it doesn't steal audience from AToW, I'm ok with that...

Asgo

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #846 on: 03 February 2020, 18:19:43 »
As long as it doesn't steal audience from AToW, I'm ok with that...
hmm assuming that all customers for destiny are fresh rpgler seems ...optimistic. ;)

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #847 on: 03 February 2020, 18:20:21 »
I know, I know...  :-\

Bedwyr

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #848 on: 03 February 2020, 18:23:00 »
I know, I know...  :-\

It is a truth universally acknowledged that a tabletop game audience is in want of a split. :)
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Sartris

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #849 on: 03 February 2020, 18:40:29 »
after reading the destiny rules finally, i may some day try a modified version (not a fan of players taking the wheel either as a GM or a player). or i'll do a mod of the 3.0 D20 Future or Savage Worlds

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #850 on: 03 February 2020, 18:45:07 »
If you play, make sure to take an Assassin 'mech.  You'll be able to kill anything slower than you without a long range weapon, including the Hunchback, e.g. (FEAR the mighty LRM-5!).

wolfspider

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #851 on: 03 February 2020, 18:59:24 »
Daryk did that happen to you?
I may have a low amount of posts but I have a PHD in Battletech and mechs older then most people on this board!

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #852 on: 03 February 2020, 19:02:09 »
I just read the rules for 'mech combat under Destiny... it's one of the main reasons I'm no fan of that system.  And yes, I pointed it out in an official comment to the devs...

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #853 on: 03 February 2020, 20:13:58 »
SPAs scratch enough of the RPG-lite elements to the point where I’d only use the rpg for non mechjocks

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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #854 on: 03 February 2020, 20:41:12 »
SPAs?  They're pretty expensive in AToW...

nckestrel

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #855 on: 03 February 2020, 20:43:54 »
SPAs?  They're pretty expensive in AToW...

I think he means Campaign Operations (or AS). BattleTech with SPAs, no separate RPG system at all.
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #856 on: 03 February 2020, 20:49:43 »
Correct. I’ve never liked mixing the rpg with the board game


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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #857 on: 03 February 2020, 20:51:31 »
Ah, I see... game balance is out the window in that case then.

Panthros

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #858 on: 03 February 2020, 21:10:41 »
As long as it doesn't steal audience from AToW, I'm ok with that...

No offense but I doubt there are a lot of ATOW players so I doubt you have anything to worry about.  Even for my Mechwarrior 2nd edition that I like, its not many I am sure and likely less than ATOW as perhaps many moved on.  I will say I love that if my pilot or gunnery skill is 4 in Mechwarrior 2nd, its 4 in Total Warfare.  It should be that simple to move from RPG to tabletop and back.  The magical formula 18-(REF+INT)+Skill)

And that is the question, who is Mechwarrior Destiny for?  You can always go back to prior versions if you prefer but I was hoping Mechwarrior Destiny would focus on introducing new players to role playing in the Battletech universe.  So many people have come back to the genre either through MWO, Mechwarrior 5, Battletech the Game by HBS or perhaps even with the new fiction.  I want Mechwarrior Destiny to learn from past, bring the best into a new version or format to open up to new fans.


Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #859 on: 03 February 2020, 21:15:16 »
The problem is the distance between 'mech combat as presented in Destiny and table top... An Assassin should not be able to kill a Hunchback (or a Victor, for that matter) without taking any damage at all.

monbvol

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #860 on: 03 February 2020, 21:24:52 »
Kind of a bad example there Daryk as if the map is setup for it an Assassin has the potential to destroy a Hunchback without taking damage in Total Warfare and I've maintained for a while now 50 tons is where I start seriously questioning the value of any design that can only fight out to 9 hexes and is 4/6/x.

Paul

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #861 on: 03 February 2020, 22:55:15 »
Hunchbacks are UrbanMechs with better reputations.
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #862 on: 03 February 2020, 23:02:48 »
Hunchbacks are UrbanMechs with better reputations.

They can grab salvage and flip off people, Which means Hunchbacks have at least two vital functions Urbanmechs are unable to provide their pilots.
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #863 on: 03 February 2020, 23:14:20 »
I assure you, when the UrbanMech raises his cannon to 90 degrees, and torso twists to the left, you are being flipped off.
And salvage is a problem for people who don't buy AC ammo by the megaton.
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monbvol

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #864 on: 03 February 2020, 23:27:27 »
Well the issue Daryk is trying to illustrate is something worth looking at though as there does seem to be a somewhat fringe case where mechs of the same weight class can effectively 'kite' others because there is no explicit take cover or break line of sight action to get out of such a situation without withdrawing from combat completely.

Which actually makes the Victors of the introductory tech variants the most vulnerable to this tactic.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #865 on: 04 February 2020, 04:41:37 »
The kiting issue is made worse by not tracking ammo.  In TW, you'd be hard pressed to put down a Hunchback with a single ton of LRM-5 ammo (without a TAC or two).

monbvol

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #866 on: 04 February 2020, 12:15:54 »
*nod*

The main thing that seems to keep it from being too easy to exploit is that it does require a fairly specific set of circumstances to pull off from what I can tell.

Talen5000

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #867 on: 05 February 2020, 19:09:22 »
This is something like what I mean about a points based system. It is only rough, and needs a good deal of refining, but I think it shows how a points based system could work.

Yes - I know the game has one already, but it is kinda tacked on. I think you'd want and need a more refined system and one that does away with much of the math and XPs and complexity of the existing system.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #868 on: 05 February 2020, 19:12:53 »
The existing points based system is very straight forward...what do you mean by "more refined"?

Talen5000

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #869 on: 05 February 2020, 21:16:50 »
The existing points based system is very straight forward...what do you mean by "more refined"?

The existing points system is - IMO - hampered by some of the problems of the Lifepath system because it is built on top of that system, and therefore shares some of its flaws. It is still better but if CGL were to move to a Points based system, they should not carry over the existing system unchanged.

For example, there is no good reason to use 4000-5000 points to require a character build. That can be intimidating to new players. The system could use a simple 100 points to divide between skills, attributes and traits, or employ a Priority system. If the system were modified to encourage some degree of personal customisation, then so much the better.
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