Author Topic: Star Trek Discovery (Read 165594 times)

gyedid · « **Reply #1200 on:** 07 April 2019, 22:55:04 »

Quote from: monbvol on 07 April 2019, 00:52:34

Which means that is exactly what they are going to do.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid you're right. Control's takeover of Leland sure LOOKED a heck of a lot like Borg assimilation, especially as it was shown in _First Contact_. I feel like this move is similar to what they did with the origin of the Cybermen in Peter Capaldi's last season of Doctor Who.

cheers,

Gabe

Wrangler · « **Reply #1201 on:** 08 April 2019, 05:57:31 »

There reasons why i don't like it when prequels, there high chance they will radically change canon past.

gyedid · « **Reply #1202 on:** 08 April 2019, 06:35:33 »

Thing is though, the origin of the Borg is completely open. If this is going to be it, the main thing to be explained is how that technology ends up in the Delta Quadrant nearly a millennium prior.

It would certainly be a most delicious irony if it's a couple of Section 31 projects end up being the ultimate origin of the 24th Century
Federation's most implacable enemy.

Cheers, Gabe

Kentares · « **Reply #1203 on:** 08 April 2019, 07:47:30 »

Quote from: gyedid on 08 April 2019, 06:35:33

Thing is though, the origin of the Borg is completely open...

I wouldn't say completely open (there are some details but not enough to be a proper origin) but there are already some theories on youtube that's precisely what they're doing to Discovery... giving a origin story to the Borg... sort off... maybe...

Next season? Origin for Vger (which could be connected to the Borg according to a supposed interview with Roddenberry saying that one of the images seeing in the Spock "mind meld" with Vger through probe Ilia could be the Borg homeworld) or the whale probe...!?

FWIW... Ill just leave this... https://youtu.be/FMCDJoTexT4

Edit = Another FWIW... https://youtu.be/Gc1GvahkWCk

Wrangler · « **Reply #1204 on:** 08 April 2019, 07:56:57 »

Quote from: Kentares on 08 April 2019, 07:47:30

I wouldn't say completely open (there are some details but not enough to be a proper origin) but there are already some theories on youtube that's precisely what they're doing to Discovery... giving a origin story to the Borg... sort off... maybe...

Next season? Origin for Vger (which could be connected to the Borg according to a supposed interview with Roddenberry saying that one of the images seeing in the Spock "mind meld" with Vger through probe Ilia could be the Borg homeworld) or the whale probe...!?

FWIW... Ill just leave this... https://youtu.be/FMCDJoTexT4

Yes, the Vger was informally suggested this was home of the Borg, but i dont think so. Borg are cyborgs (half alive, half machine), they've never would treated a pure machine as one of their own and upgraded from all I've read and viewed about them. First Contract sort effectively was first retro-con of the Borg, since they never needed a Queen before, it was suppose to have been collective (one mind). They made their own spokesman when needed.

Vger pre-date that stuff, more online it was total AI world like not sound cartoonish, Cybertron. There was a Comic book mini-series, and i think novel as well that suggested that Borg and Vger's benefactors were related.

marauder648 · « **Reply #1205 on:** 08 April 2019, 08:23:08 »

I guess we're all sitting here thinking "they are going to reach for low hanging fruit..." and just go

"Oh noes! The borg were created by us!!!!" and then throw in some timey wimey wibbly wobbly or something that gets them lobbed into the Delta quadrant. It's just painfully obvious. But ya never know, they might surprise us.

I am Belch II · « **Reply #1206 on:** 08 April 2019, 08:25:40 »

V'Ger was way more advanced than the Borg ever were. I don't really like the Theory that V'ger and the Borg were linked.
I don't think the Borg have a "home" planet anymore.

Lorcan Nagle · « **Reply #1207 on:** 08 April 2019, 08:51:38 »

Quote from: marauder648 on 08 April 2019, 08:23:08

I guess we're all sitting here thinking "they are going to reach for low hanging fruit..." and just go

"Oh noes! The borg were created by us!!!!" and then throw in some timey wimey wibbly wobbly or something that gets them lobbed into the Delta quadrant. It's just painfully obvious. But ya never know, they might surprise us.

Yeah, we got an assimilating AI that says "struggle is pointless" and has a system that looks and feels like the FC/VOY era borg nanotubes, and Discovery can go anywhere, and Pike just got a fresh time crystal. Now, there's a few points where the show has swerved in a weird direction away from what we expected thus far - most notably the identity of the Red Angel (show me someone who didn't think it was going to be Michael or Spock), so I've got some hope.

ThePW · « **Reply #1208 on:** 08 April 2019, 09:04:51 »

Miecky Spock. Her name is Miecky Spock. :D (middle name: Mary Sue)

Ruger · « **Reply #1209 on:** 08 April 2019, 11:16:51 »

Quote from: gyedid on 08 April 2019, 06:35:33

Thing is though, the origin of the Borg is completely open. If this is going to be it, the main thing to be explained is how that technology ends up in the Delta Quadrant nearly a millennium prior.

It would certainly be a most delicious irony if it's a couple of Section 31 projects end up being the ultimate origin of the 24th Century
Federation's most implacable enemy.

Cheers, Gabe

Well, that would be somewhat similar to what happened in the Destiny trilogy of novels...kinda, sorta...just not Section 31 people, and humans from a few decades previous to Discovery.

Ruger

ThePW · « **Reply #1210 on:** 08 April 2019, 14:39:22 »

thing is, they cant even touch that (anything from Post TNG or Nemesis film books)… Not that books have been mostly treated as non-cannon anyway... They might not even be planning this CONTROL being a proto-borg deal, just something to lure old school viewers?

HobbesHurlbut · « **Reply #1211 on:** 08 April 2019, 15:17:02 »

Nevermind that First Contact and the Borg episode on Enterprise, you had the Borg attempting to send a signal to the Borg in the 22nd Century Delta Quadrant.

Ruger · « **Reply #1212 on:** 08 April 2019, 15:34:10 »

Quote from: HobbesHurlbut on 08 April 2019, 15:17:02

Nevermind that First Contact and the Borg episode on Enterprise, you had the Borg attempting to send a signal to the Borg in the 22nd Century Delta Quadrant.

Why would that matter? Both the current running theory and the Destiny trilogy of novels have the progenitors of the Borg traveling hundreds or thousands of years into the past.

Ruger

HobbesHurlbut · « **Reply #1213 on:** 08 April 2019, 16:34:20 »

Quote from: Ruger on 08 April 2019, 15:34:10

Why would that matter? Both the current running theory and the Destiny trilogy of novels have the progenitors of the Borg traveling hundreds or thousands of years into the past.

Ruger

So you're saying the Discovery Borg Origin Theory would also involve time travel?

Lorcan Nagle · « **Reply #1214 on:** 08 April 2019, 16:42:42 »

Quote from: ThePW on 08 April 2019, 14:39:22

thing is, they cant even touch that (anything from Post TNG or Nemesis film books)… Not that books have been mostly treated as non-cannon anyway... They might not even be planning this CONTROL being a proto-borg deal, just something to lure old school viewers?

Control is literally based on a plot from the post-Nemesis Section 31 novels

Ruger · « **Reply #1215 on:** 08 April 2019, 17:06:22 »

Quote from: HobbesHurlbut on 08 April 2019, 16:34:20

So you're saying the Discovery Borg Origin Theory would also involve time travel?

Why would it not?

Seriously, asking the question as I haven't watched this season yet, but I would assume that if Control is the origin of the Borg, then part of the reason for the time crystals would be to send it/them to the past.

Ruger

Kentares · « **Reply #1216 on:** 08 April 2019, 17:09:57 »

Quote from: Ruger on 08 April 2019, 17:06:22

Why would it not?

Seriously, asking the question as I haven't watched this season yet, but I would assume that if Control is the origin of the Borg, then part of the reason for the time crystals would be to send it/them to the past.

Ruger

And what were seeing are the "first" Borgs... we only need to figure out how theyre throw up into Delta Quadrant... ;D

Wrangler · « **Reply #1217 on:** 08 April 2019, 17:38:04 »

If their saying humans somehow created the Borg. I will be disappointed in the lack of creativity of the writers. Why can't there be new races we hadn't heard of before that were long gone?

YingJanshi · « **Reply #1218 on:** 08 April 2019, 19:05:12 »

Quote from: Wrangler on 08 April 2019, 17:38:04

If their saying humans somehow created the Borg. I will be disappointed in the lack of creativity of the writers. Why can't there be new races we hadn't heard of before that were long gone?

Because they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. They don't want to be constrained by anything that came before (not even going to get into the rights issue), but they want to throw in as many callbacks to the past series to keep hold of the older fans.

I am Belch II · « **Reply #1219 on:** 08 April 2019, 19:48:17 »

I hope section 31 didn't start the Borg. That would be annoying and lack of story arc telling. Just leave the Borg alone. Let section 31 have a great fall

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire · « **Reply #1220 on:** 08 April 2019, 20:52:40 »

Maybe Section 31 can be how the Borg originally became aware of the Alpha Quadrant.

Liam's Ghost · « **Reply #1221 on:** 08 April 2019, 21:03:03 »

Quote from: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 08 April 2019, 20:52:40

Maybe Section 31 can be how the Borg originally became aware of the Alpha Quadrant.

Wasn't that explained already when the Borg were first introduced, and then again in a different way in enterprise?

I can understand people wanting a coherent continuity to follow for Star Trek. I'm just not sure why people expect one.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire · « **Reply #1222 on:** 08 April 2019, 21:09:42 »

Q told Picard that the Borg were already aware of the Federation but it was never explicitly stated in TNG.

As for Enterprise, well, that show didn't exactly seem to have any idea what it was doing most of the time. If people actually notice that something contradicts Enterprise I doubt they'd actually care.

monbvol · « **Reply #1223 on:** 08 April 2019, 23:59:24 »

*nod*

I never argue against coherent consistent continuity but at the same time I don't get as bent out of shape over the lack of it as some fans obviously do. At least most of the time.

I am Belch II · « **Reply #1224 on:** 09 April 2019, 03:53:47 »

Discovery has thrown cannon way out the window more than Enterprise.
I wouldn't doubt that Michael Burnham created the borg by going back in time. Look at Ariam and Detmer they are cyborg enhanced its already there in the Disco-verse.

gyedid · « **Reply #1225 on:** 09 April 2019, 05:25:03 »

Quote from: gyedid on 07 April 2019, 22:55:04

Unfortunately, I'm afraid you're right. Control's takeover of Leland sure LOOKED a heck of a lot like Borg assimilation, especially as it was shown in _First Contact_. I feel like this move is similar to what they did with the origin of the Cybermen in Peter Capaldi's last season of Doctor Who.

cheers,

Gabe

Speaking of Doctor Who...I believe a case could be made that it was actually that show that pioneered the idea of assimilation through nanoprobes (at least for televised sci-fi), back in the mid-1960s. The story "The Moonbase" (from the Second Doctor's first season) featured a moonbase (duh) whose crew was struck by a mystery illness that caused dark veins to break out all over their bodies before apparently killing them. The "dead" crew members were then later seen re-animated zombie-style under control of the Cybermen, their veined bodies now augmented with technological add-ons, still able to perform technical tasks but with no free will of their own. Sound familiar? Although not called "nanoprobes" (I think they called it a "neurotopic virus"--was nanotech even a concept at the time?), the clear implication was that the infectious agent somehow facilitated Cyber-control.

And then TNG came along 20+ years later and introduced the Borg, who were Cybermen taken to the ultimate degree. Doctor Who itself seemed to forget about this angle where the Cybermen were concerned, only re-introducing it with the Eleventh and Twelfth Doctors (particularly the latter), opening it to criticism that they were just imitating the Borg--when in fact they had been there first!

cheers,

Gabe

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #1226 on:** 09 April 2019, 07:06:54 »

Quote from: I am Belch II on 07 April 2019, 06:55:37

The Pike stuff with seeing his future and the acting of Anson Mount has been the best part of the series so far. The fear and that "time crystal" breaking of him was so well acted and he really showed his fear. He has made the show so much better and is by far the best actor on the show with a second being Doug Jones.
Not that upset that Tilly wasn't in that episode.

Completely agree watched the episode today was really well done

gyedid · « **Reply #1227 on:** 09 April 2019, 09:08:27 »

Quote from: Dragon Cat on 09 April 2019, 07:06:54

Completely agree watched the episode today was really well done

Yeah, I'm really going to miss Pike too. Anson Mount really has done a great job with the character.

I was hoping we would see more of Number One. Just from the teeny bit we got, Rebecca Romijn has a very different take on the character from Majel Barrett, but as far as appearance goes, they sure nailed the period hairstyle and makeup. (Incidentally, Commander Nhan also has a bit of a "retro" look--anyone notice how even after she joins the DISCO crew, she continues to wear the TOS-style skirt and high boots, while all the other female crewmembers wear trousers?)

cheers,

Gabe

gyedid · « **Reply #1228 on:** 13 April 2019, 12:16:12 »

Hey Weirdo,

Would've thought you'd have had some comment about that aft-quarter shot of the "new" D7 over Boreth. Does that interpretation of the class meet with your approval? ;)

Also thought you might chime in on the look of Section 31's ships. Both retro and forward-looking. Something proto-Defiant (DS9) about them, but the lack of a secondary hull also brings the first-gen NX series to mind.

(And we get to see the Enterprise herself in action!)

Can anybody fathom why only the Enterprise crew has uniforms that differ from what the rest of Starfleet seems to be wearing at this point? Even the Admiralty has uniforms that are consistent with DISCO's.

Cheers, Gabe

Weirdo · « **Reply #1229 on:** 14 April 2019, 23:40:51 »

Quote from: gyedid on 13 April 2019, 12:16:12

Hey Weirdo,

Would've thought you'd have had some comment about that aft-quarter shot of the "new" D7 over Boreth. Does that interpretation of the class meet with your approval? ;)

Also thought you might chime in on the look of Section 31's ships. Both retro and forward-looking. Something proto-Defiant (DS9) about them, but the lack of a secondary hull also brings the first-gen NX series to mind.

(And we get to see the Enterprise herself in action!)

Can anybody fathom why only the Enterprise crew has uniforms that differ from what the rest of Starfleet seems to be wearing at this point? Even the Admiralty has uniforms that are consistent with DISCO's.

Cheers, Gabe

I'd have to actually see them, and your post has no pictures.