Author Topic: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition  (Read 198420 times)

Elmoth

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1110 on: 29 November 2018, 03:37:16 »
Well, I am still reeling from the clans breaking a cool setting unnecessarily. :P Double heat sinks should not exist.


Icerose20

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1111 on: 29 November 2018, 03:59:33 »
(PSSS, Hate to break it to you.  It was Star League who made DHS.  )

Elmoth

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1112 on: 29 November 2018, 05:30:11 »
(PSSS, Hate to break it to you.  It was Star League who made DHS.  )
Revisionism, I tell you. DHS should not exist in their current format

pheonixstorm

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1113 on: 29 November 2018, 05:43:39 »
Yes yes, let us dance to the disco lights known as laser heat sinks! :thumbsup:

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1114 on: 29 November 2018, 06:55:48 »
Well, I am still reeling from the clans breaking a cool setting unnecessarily. :P Double heat sinks should not exist.

Man, Elmoth still reeling from 1990. That 28 year grudge. There are the Hatfield's and the Mccoys and the Elmoth's and the Kerensky's.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1115 on: 29 November 2018, 07:28:37 »
Revisionism, I tell you. DHS should not exist in their current format
It's true that DHS turned the BTU upside-down. Marauders and Warhammer became viable options if one just upgraded the heat sink.
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Elmoth

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1116 on: 29 November 2018, 07:40:48 »
xD

The funny thing is that I started looking into BT in 2017. :P

I just think that the DHS and the massive proliferation over introtech simply breaks the setting and makes it less interesting when ther eis no real differenciation between mech designs AND there is no real problems of heat management if you do not want them to be there.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1117 on: 29 November 2018, 08:15:18 »
You're forgetting the cult of '00, who remember just how rough the transition from FASA to Wizkids was, and the bodyblow the player base took from it.

I'm going to stick up for CGL here, because they've done a much better job of keeping things in line than Wizkids did. When the ClickTech stuff was released, no mention was made of how this would affect the existing setting. This pissed me off because I thought hundreds of dollars worth of stuff I'd bought was suddenly useless. CGL hasn't done that, and isn't doing it with this product. They're giving you more toppings for your burrito, that's all. If you don't like it, don't use those toppings.

I think poeple are afraid of things being done poorly. As for me, I'm fairly unlikely to get the PDF, but I'm all for letting the players of each group find out which timeline is true, and which is ridiculous comstar/government propaganda. 

100% agree!

As for moving the timeline forward, I wouldn't mind the focus of the setting moving away from the inner sphere and the charlie-foxtrot that is the dork ages.

The dork ages? Really? Come on man, you're better than that. :)



Let's all remember this is just a game. Canon exists to provide a common setting, not act as Holy Writ. Some of us (including me) are prone to getting our panties in a bunch and saying "not canon" when really what we're doing is setting the documents up as YOU MUST OBEY instead of USE TO HAVE FUN. That YOU MUST OBEY makes a fun game into some sort of dogma, and you know what happens when you make the game into dogma? You get Blakists. I like computers, but I'm not interested in ****** one the way the Manei Domini were. And you can't wear pants! It gets cold in Ohio during winter and I like to wear pants! Don't be a Blakist. If you like to wear pants, just say no to inflexibility. Eschew dogma. Remember that you don't have to buy or use the new product.

And you're overlooking the two main benefits to this product:
1. It could be a great tool for us to attract new targets players to the tabletop game, and
2. We get new writers for tabletop products

Honestly the only way this could be better for us is if someone locked Ray in a parallel dimension where he had more time and a staff of clones to produce the quality product we've been getting.

Speaking of quality product, did I miss the release of Holt's Hilltoppers? That looked kind of neat.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1118 on: 29 November 2018, 08:28:44 »
Mbear, 2020!
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1119 on: 29 November 2018, 08:40:32 »
Mbear speaks wise.
I'll add a third benefit:

3. It might be a good product.

I mean, one guy from my RPG group and another old pal I recently met again after many years both play and love the HBS game. Neither of them particularly cares about the lore in the way I do, but they both independently of each other raved about how HBS got the feeling across. So apparently, their writing isn't too bad. It stands to reason that they can put together a decent product for CGL; and Ray explicitly said it will be going through the usual CGL factchecking process, which as far as I can tell seems to be one of the best in the industry. (Seriously.)

(Myself, I've backed the kickstarter but found my old rig isn't powerful enough to run the game so I couldn't play the game myself yet. Embarrassing but true - I have no first hand experience with the HBS game.)
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abou

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1120 on: 29 November 2018, 08:47:00 »
If it helps, we do have a built-in reason for ComStar to edit the interstellar maps. Not just anyone finds an intact Star League base stocked with royal 'mechs. That alone is reason enough to let the Aurigan Coalition disappear. Throw in that it might cease to exist as a functioning state by the 4th War and it puts a neat little bow on everything.

But also... it is just a cool project. There have been dozens of little retcons here and there. I've seen less. It's not like they are bringing Hanse Davion back from the dead to right the ship of the Federated Suns. I mean... that would be cool...

*wink wink nudge nudge*

Empyrus

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1121 on: 29 November 2018, 10:26:20 »
If it helps, we do have a built-in reason for ComStar to edit the interstellar maps. Not just anyone finds an intact Star League base stocked with royal 'mechs. That alone is reason enough to let the Aurigan Coalition disappear. Throw in that it might cease to exist as a functioning state by the 4th War and it puts a neat little bow on everything.

Honestly, i never liked ComStar edits as justifications for retcons. That they do edit stuff is OK, but poor justification for retcons. (Just own up to them, like Paul said about Auriga, "it is better this way".)
And they would not remove an entire nations for one SL base, rather they either remove that world (or perhaps rename it or something else to make people ignore old maps if they have any), or they manipulate events so that the world goes mostly unexplored or something else.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1122 on: 29 November 2018, 10:28:42 »
Honestly the only way this could be better for us is if someone locked Ray in a parallel dimension where he had more time and a staff of clones to produce the quality product we've been getting.
Gosh, I could catch up on sleep.

Speaking of quality product, did I miss the release of Holt's Hilltoppers? That looked kind of neat.
There was an issue with the final product that delayed it (my fault), and then we decided to nudge it until Friday (tomorrow) to give Tuesday’s announcement some room.

It's not like they are bringing Hanse Davion back from the dead to right the ship of the Federated Suns. I mean... that would be cool...

*wink wink nudge nudge*
Think on this. Hanse Davion is Alaric’s grandfather on both sides. He likely has more of Hanse in him than any of Hanse’ children.
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Elmoth

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1123 on: 29 November 2018, 10:31:52 »
You mean the wolves will make the FS great again? Maybe he could marry Julian.  8)

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1124 on: 29 November 2018, 10:45:35 »
Agreed. I'd support a reboot of the game setting if it meant keeping the best of FASA and ditching the worst or wildly implausible. Like any fan I wouldn't like all the changes, but as long as the major players and characters remained in some form it would still be recognizably Battletech.

In some ways it seems like a good idea.  Not sure how it could be implemented without losing half the fanbase, though.  The name could remain close enough to be recognizable, or use another common term within the game setting (note that BattleTech and MechWarrior are both known throughout the gaming industry), so it doesn't need to be a complete loss of the name recognition aspect.

Streamlining the weapon selection, or making logically scaled versions of a somewhat reduced set of weapons, should make it easier for new players to pick up on it, rather than trying to learn each of the quirky and nonsensical weapons types in the present game (IS ML is 1 ton and 5 damage, Clan ERML is 1 ton and 7 damage, but an IS LL jumps all the way up to 5 tons yet only 8 damage?).  Range and damage of ACs should BOTH scale up with size, not up in one and down in the other, although there might be a separate "demolition gun" that fires heavy explosive rounds at a lower velocity.  Heatsinks could still include single and double versions, but the doubles would need to have other restrictions (like not mountable in the engine itself, so they chew up a lot of critical slots).  Reducing targeting range (as was done by HBS), on the other hand, or using gimmicky special abilities with a "cooldown" time, strikes me as moving in the wrong direction: advanced targeting systems and ECM to defeat those systems should play a bigger role, but if it's in clear line of sight, it should be targetable at ANY range, at least by energy weapons (whether you can hit it, or actually DAMAGE it at that range, would be the limiting factors).

A 2D6 system is too restrictive at the extremes; going to 3D6 or 2D10 would make a single modifier "pip" a little less powerful, and extend the usable range between "impossible to hit" and "can't miss".  When a match between light recon 'Mechs requires 12+ to hit, if you can hit at all, it's not fun.  When you've got brawling units firing a 3+ to hit (skilled gunners, pulse weapons, targeting computers, etc.), there's no tactical element to it, and it's not much fun after the first game or so.  The middle dice ranges are where it's interesting, but it's too easy to get out of that middle band on either end.

The game universe could be something entirely new, or else an "alternate timeline" branching off from the current BT universe at some point during the Succession Wars, leaving a lot of freedom for "retcons" without being labeled as retcons in the new game.

Not sure I'd buy it without knowing more about the details, but I'd certainly have to give it serious consideration.

The current game has gotten too bloated (are Heavy Snub-nosed ER Pulse weapons next?), and restricted by its own past (no, you can't field those warships, because the setting doesn't allow that many of them to be in existence, much less in one fleet) to be competitive in today's market, yet the finer level of detail is what brings me back to it, rather than to fast-play rules such as Alpha Strike.  Catalyst is not in the business of selling miniatures, so why are there somewhere around 1000 different figures, rather than 1000 variants of about 50 basic chassis types at the most?  Ideally, the RPG, tactical level game, aerospace rules, and strategic level game should all integrate, so you can run battles or campaigns at any scale, or bring in elements from one to the other without drastically changing the feel and flavor of those units.

Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1125 on: 29 November 2018, 10:53:14 »
You mean the wolves will make the FS great again? Maybe he could marry Julian.  8)

With Fertility Clinic IICs, they can even have children together to start an all-Davion dynasty.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1126 on: 29 November 2018, 11:01:27 »
To echo this: sometimes burning everything doesn't actually work...

deepest wishes are best left unfulfilled. but it remains my deepest wish all the same

You're forgetting the cult of '00
And the cult of '94

my intent was to be provocative and not water it down, but the 80s nostalgia is the most annoying to me

Quote
I think poeple are afraid of things being done poorly.

and they would rather have... nothing at all? anything crafted in the image of what they liked in the good ole days will never meet their expectations - being completely weighed down with the idyllic or false memory of a 12 year old that wasn't good at critical reading. catering to either of those audiences seems like a poor business decision

Revisionism, I tell you. DHS should not exist in their current format

...nope, didn't imagine it. and they're taking new members.

fwiw, i would have quit BT a long-ass time ago if the game ensconced itself in 3025 dulltech.

Honestly, i never liked ComStar edits as justifications for retcons. That they do edit stuff is OK, but poor justification for retcons. (Just own up to them, like Paul said about Auriga, "it is better this way".)
And they would not remove an entire nations for one SL base, rather they either remove that world (or perhaps rename it or something else to make people ignore old maps if they have any), or they manipulate events so that the world goes mostly unexplored or something else.

with the constant fanbase yelling olympics about justifying things in-universe on everything from AC calibers to the color of laser beams, the comstar edits are the retcon implementation curse we deserve. trying to logic too hard is like running full sprint through a maze of carnival mirrors: you're eventually just going to hurt yourself in confusion. "It was always this way" is the best way

The current game has gotten too bloated (are Heavy Snub-nosed ER Pulse weapons next?), and restricted by its own past (no, you can't field those warships, because the setting doesn't allow that many of them to be in existence, much less in one fleet) to be competitive in today's market, yet the finer level of detail is what brings me back to it, rather than to fast-play rules such as Alpha Strike. 

there was an equipment streamlining coming but y'all freaked out so hard that they canceled it.

Quote
Catalyst is not in the business of selling miniatures, so why are there somewhere around 1000 different figures, rather than 1000 variants of about 50 basic chassis types at the most?  Ideally, the RPG, tactical level game, aerospace rules, and strategic level game should all integrate, so you can run battles or campaigns at any scale, or bring in elements from one to the other without drastically changing the feel and flavor of those units.

the worst of the chassis bloat comes out of the clan invasion. the primary difference between those and 67-75-85-3145/50 (prototypes is largely a reskin job so I only factor it for minis lists) is that the former had a significant novel line to acclimate players to the machines.   

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Elmoth

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1127 on: 29 November 2018, 11:18:07 »
Weapons bloat, and the fact that any chassis can be morphed into any kind of mech is what drives me out of later eras. There is a lot of this bullshit in the official products. SWith mechs having options and weapon swaps that totally change them to another different mech.

I would have loved that weapon streamlining you are talking about. I am really only against DHS, since it destroys the heat management problem alltogether really at hardly any cost. :) Other changes are OK for me. But then, I would make all AC5 weapons act like AC10s, but hey.

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Valerius

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1128 on: 29 November 2018, 11:50:14 »
Just for the record I am not some grognard neckbeard that is foaming at the mouth that they changed my "precious 3025". I just gave my opinion and critique about this book/retcon.  To be honest its more of an annoyance really.  I am not part of a cult of 87, and just because I have not said anything about other retcons does not invalidate my opinion. I was not around for most of those. 

 I can assure you there are other retcons I am more annoyed about, one in particular I will not mention here.   xp 




       

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1129 on: 29 November 2018, 11:56:04 »
On that note, all good little cultists- whether '25, '50, '67, or otherwise- should probably get back on track here and stop bickering about this kind of stuff in here. Opinions about the new book are understandably split, but let's not mire ourselves in 'us vs. them' kind of stuff.

Thank you.
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VensersRevenge

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1130 on: 29 November 2018, 12:04:58 »
While I personally have never played the HBS game, and don't really care about the Periphery except when they serve as auxiliaries to invade my preferred state, I am extremely happy that their is a connection between the tabletop game and the video game. Anything that gets fans to look into the tabletop is a good thing. I hope this is cross-promoted properly by the video game though.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1131 on: 29 November 2018, 12:10:14 »
Yep. I'll put on my mod-hat here and underline Hellbie's directive. Fangs have not been bared enough to warrant pruning the thread, but I think the retcon discussion has been sufficiently run to ground that the discussion should shift at this point. VensersRevenge: Your post came up while I was writing. That discussion point is all good.
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Luciora

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1132 on: 29 November 2018, 12:16:32 »
I'm going to stare at Speck's icon until I hear about more mini releases.  I did pledge a bit to the Emperor (may he live forever) primitive as well.  Also I want Blazing Aces canonized.  😁

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1133 on: 29 November 2018, 12:45:00 »
I'm going to stare at Speck's icon until I hear about more mini releases.  I did pledge a bit to the Emperor (may he live forever) primitive as well.  Also I want Blazing Aces canonized.  😁

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1134 on: 29 November 2018, 13:26:32 »
I hope this is cross-promoted properly by the video game though.

So far, so good. A mention in their Kickstarter update took a little doing, but was a nice boost and good bridge-builder.

I've said this elsewhere, but Cubby's Standard Answer No. 3 - "Coordination between separate license-holders is a highly time-consuming effort with no guarantee of success."

That said, it's an iterative thing--the more we try to do it, and the further we get, the easier future attempts become. I now have a direct line to the person with HBS who does some/most of their marketing, social media and promotion efforts. I did not have that before reaching out three weeks ago to inquire about what became Tuesday's arrangement. So, progress.

But I need to continuously underline that they owe us nothing. To you, the average customer/fan, it makes total sense that every license holder across the splintered BattleTech IP should want to play nice and work together hand-in-glove to ensure everything stays as matchy-matchy and cross-promoted as possible. But each company possesses different goals, and faces different challenges and pressures in accomplishing those goals, which make collaboration an extra, not a given.
« Last Edit: 29 November 2018, 13:28:31 by Cubby »
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1135 on: 29 November 2018, 13:58:38 »
Aside from the Spotlight and Touring PDFs announced, are there any products due for the remainder of the year?
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1136 on: 29 November 2018, 13:58:45 »
So far, so good. A mention in their Kickstarter update took a little doing, but was a nice boost and good bridge-builder.

I've said this elsewhere, but Cubby's Standard Answer No. 3 - "Coordination between separate license-holders is a highly time-consuming effort with no guarantee of success."

That said, it's an iterative thing--the more we try to do it, and the further we get, the easier future attempts become. I now have a direct line to the person with HBS who does some/most of their marketing, social media and promotion efforts. I did not have that before reaching out three weeks ago to inquire about what became Tuesday's arrangement. So, progress.

But I need to continuously underline that they owe us nothing. To you, the average customer/fan, it makes total sense that every license holder across the splintered BattleTech IP should want to play nice and work together hand-in-glove to ensure everything stays as matchy-matchy and cross-promoted as possible. But each company possesses different goals, and faces different challenges and pressures in accomplishing those goals, which make collaboration an extra, not a given.
Well, I'm happy that there is something happening. And I totally understand that it is not a guarantee that companies will cross-promote for the same license. But the HBS game has reached a far greater number of people than the tabletop game, and anything that gets them to notice the tabletop game is something I want to happen. So thank you for putting in the effort to get cross-promotion happening. Your work on expanding the notice of what is happening in Battletech is great, and i for one greatly appreciate seeing Facebook updates on products and easier access to information than going to forums.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1137 on: 29 November 2018, 17:09:19 »
Seems to me that any new product that fleshes out the Periphery, if done right, can only be a good thing for the game overall.

Also any news on when the box sets and shattered fortress will hit the streets in the UK?

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1138 on: 29 November 2018, 23:19:31 »
Also any news on when the box sets and shattered fortress will hit the streets in the UK?

Hi, I've been working with Cubby and others on various announcements and distribution. My understanding is that we don't control international distribution, once it hits distribution through PSI it's available to anyone that orders the product. Unless I'm mistaken there aren't separate release dates for international markets, it's all dependent on when their orders are received.

That all being said, if I'm mistaken (definitely not out of the question, this is all inferring at this point) I'll gladly edit and make updates.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #1139 on: 30 November 2018, 09:02:09 »

Nihilism may not be an optimal outlook, but you certainly can't call it a surprising one...

"Nihilists! ****** me. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."


- edited slightly by mod for clarity
« Last Edit: 02 December 2018, 10:44:28 by Bedwyr »
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