Battletech 2300 (Update Vehicles, Infantry, Mechs, Space craft/Jumpships TRO)

[DevianID]

Battletech 2300

Battletech has a rich history, but one era in particular is ripe for gameplay not yet covered by an established Battletech Era.  The years between the Outer Reach Rebellion in 2236 and James Mckenna's death in 2338 held wide spread conflict in the known galaxy.  Beginning as scattered wars for independence from Terra, the roughly 100 year period is marked by conflict as fledgling colonies organize and expand their territory in the absence of Terran authority.  These colonies violently consolidate their power while Terra faces wave after wave of citizens leaving for the stars in the great exodus migration—further fueling conflicts as new colonies are formed, then band together and fight to increase their influence.  In 2300, with several years of stability brought by Admiral James Mckenna, the Terran sphere of influence is ready to reassert itself, triggering a new wave of hostilities radiating from Terra outward.  In 2300 many brand new technologies culminate in new fighting vehicles being invented, from the first modern space Warship to the first industrial grade mech.  Weapons technologies also receive a breakthrough, with miniaturized missile and laser weapons being coupled with advanced targeting systems, allowing a significant jump in lethality for ground forces.

Forces of war:  There are 3 general classes of war material in Battletech 2300.  These are ranked by their Tech Availability, with Tech B roughly corresponding to old but rugged year ~2100 technology, Tech C corresponding to mass produced year ~2200 technology, and Tech D corresponding to the cutting edge year 2300+ technology of the resurgent Terran Alliance, as well as the space forces (fighters, dropshuttles, and jumpships) of all factions.

Rough tech breakdown by faction—my best guess:
   Independent colony world: 90% Tech B, 9% Tech C, 1% Tech D 2200 space force.
   Proto-States and Houses: 60% Tech B, 36% Tech C, 4% Tech D 2200 space force.
   Terran Alliance: 25% Tech B, 36% Tech C, 14/25% Tech D 2300/2200 ground/space forces.

While the conflict in the era was often brutal, the period is noted for mostly a lack of non-conventional weapons used.  These conflicts were often fought for homes and for resources, and wide-scale nuclear attacks would make the fighting pointless—it is not until after the 2300 era ends and the great houses are formed when nuclear weapons are used en mass.  For example, proto-capella fought with itself with the Capellan Holdfast, the Sarna Supremecy, St Ives Mercantile League, Ingersoll Concordium, and whatever nearby independant worlds they could take over.

Most Common Infantry Equipment by Tech Rating
   2100: Sniper primary and Heavy Mortar Secondary, No Armor
   2200: Tech C Modern Autorifle/Autogrenade Launcher, Xenoplanetary Equipment, Flak Armor
   2300: Tech D Blazer Rifles, Jump Packs, Hostile Environment Suit, Heavy Armor

Most Common Fighting Support Units
   10 ton attack VTOL (2100/2200/2300) OT-12 Bird of Prey Mentioned in Strike Falcon
   10 ton APC series (Precursor to Canon 2390 Primitive APC)
   15 ton LRRP/Exploration Vehicle –Precursor mentioned in Canon Stoat Scout Car (2250)
   20 ton Heavy APC series precursors –Thanks for pointing out the heavy APCs Daryk
   25 ton Wheeled IFV (2100/2200/2300) –Canon 22 ton Chi-ha (2284)
   30 ton Transport VTOL –Canon Cobra (2317)
   30 ton Jamming/Communications/Command Truck –Canon Dunning (2317)
   35 ton Towing/Transport combat Vehicle –Canon Randolph (2301)
   45 ton Heavy Hovercraft Transport –Mentioned in Canon Hovertank Asher (2298)
   50 ton Medium Tank (2100/2200/2300) –Precursor KVN-1? from Korvin KVN-2 (2367)
   65 ton Main Battle Tank (2100/2200/2300) --Precursor mentioned in Marsden (2396)
   60 ton Tracked Weapons Carrier (2100/2200/2300) *** Fan guess based on APC to Weapons carrier similarities + Apostle (2321)
   75 ton Heavy Tank –Precursors Mentioned in Sturmblitz Assault Gun, Merkava
   80-100 ton Assault Tank (Demolisher/Alacorn/Partisan Precursors)  --Canon Estevez, Apostle (2310, 2321)
   30 ton Wheeled Artillery (2100/2200/2300) –Precursor mentioned in Canon Reaper (2321)
   25 ton Light Attack and Strike Fighter (2100/2200/2300)
      --Canon Hurricane 25t (2297) Mosquito 20t (2302)
   40 ton Heavy Fighter (2100/2200/2300) --Precursor to Colt (2354)
   ~60 ton Heavy Bomber –Precursor mentioned in Canon Vendetta (2328)
   25 ton AC/5 Tank (2255) *** Fan Guess for AC5 vehicle based on Scorpion
   50 ton AC/5 Tank (2255) *** Fan Guess for AC5 vehicle based on Vedette

Most Common Space Forces
   25 ton Light Attack and Strike Space Fighter (2200, 2300) --Canon Sabre (2314)
   40-45 ton Superiority Fighter (2200, 2300)  --Precursor to Firebird (2400)
   50+ ton Nuclear Torpedo Bomber (2200, 2300)  --based on existence of Alamo being used by aerospace fighter.
75 ton Heavy Aerospace Fighter --precursor to Eagle (2324, may be the Nuclear bomber above)
   ~60 ton Aerospace Short Range AWACS (2200) --based on all the spyplane equipment
   100-200 ton Assault Shuttle –Precursor mentioned in Intrepid Assault Craft
   100-200 ton Escort Craft –Precursor mentioned in Intrepid Assault Craft
   100-200 ton Militarized Merchant Cargo Craft –mentioned in Ares Landing Craft
   200 ton Aerodyne Long Range AWACS (2200)  --based on all the spyplane equipment
   1200 ton Canon Saturn Patrol Ship, thousands built
3500 ton Assault Lander --Precursor to Vulture (2312)
   4500-5000 ton Converted Civilian Aerodyne Dropshuttle (2200) –Mentioned in Black Eagle, precursor to Drost I? (2400s).  Mingo?
   100,000 ton Aquilla and similar Primitive Jump/Warship (2200) 
      --mentioned as being used as high as 40 at a time in attack waves

2300 Terran Alliance New Weapons of War
   20 Ton Military/Industrial Mech  ***Fan Guess
   30 Ton Military/Industrial Mech ***Fan Guess
   40 Ton Military/Industrial Mech ***Fan Guess
   70 Ton Military/Industrial Mech ***Fan Guess
   30-50 Ton Hovertank (HTV or LTV-1?) ***Fan Guess based on Asher Hovertank
   960,000 Ton Dreadnaught (2300), starts Warship line with Dart and others to follow
   Exo Jump Armored Infantry
Some sort of Robotic weapons --Canon Buffalo Drone Bomb (2300)

[DevianID]

Almost zero cannon units exist covering this time period, so the suggested tonnage for the various combat units is based on close real world analogs as well as what fits using the primitive unit construction rules.

For example, a Thumper+ammo takes up 8 slots on a support vehicle, meaning it must be at least 30 tons.  A Sniper+ammo takes up 11 slots, meaning it must be at least 60 tons.  A 10 ton VTOL has 6 slots, so mgun+ammo and 4 rocket pods fills all the space available for an 'Apache' style attack vtol.  25 ton light fighters are close enough analogs to F18/A10s, while 40 ton heavy fighters are closer to fully loaded F22/F35s.  The 50 ton Torpedo bomber is the smallest space fighter capable of carrying the 10 bomb slot Alamo fighter launched capital missile as external ordinance.

As for mech sizes, 20 tons is the smallest primitive industrial mech, 30 tons with a lift hoist can lift a 15 ton thumper cannon, 40 tons with a lift hoist can lift the 20 ton sniper, and 70 tons can do pretty much everything at once.  Military armed Industrial mechs make sense to be built off a frame that has value in the civilian sector, hence why I went with these 4 weight classes.

[Daryk]

I believe APCs and Heavy APCs are available in one form or another in this era.

[DevianID]

I believe APCs and Heavy APCs are available in one form or another in this era.

Yeah APCs and Heavy APCs would exist, just needing Tech B/C support vehicle versions that would predate even the tracked primitive APC that came out in 2390 for the proper start of the age of war.  Ill add that to the list.

[DevianID]

Infantry:
Year 2100 tech level:

Militia Platoon:  Colonial militias formed the backbone of local rebellion ground forces.  Using non-automatic rifles that could be legally civilian owned and locally produced, militias could form in the far off colonies at a moments notice even while under Terran Alliance blockade.

Sniper Squad:  Using a single squad of infantry to act as a sniper team has a long tradition in warfare, as well as in civilian law enforcement.  Lightly armed with Sniper Rifles and Revolvers, sniper teams range from elite special operations rangers, police units, or simple sport hunters.

Mortar Platoon:  Modern vehicle sensors have been able to detect and destroy mortars since before mankind left the solar system.  Despite this limitation, against infantry based forces a mortar platoon is a premier long ranged fire support unit when the massive collateral damage of field guns is a concern.  Mortars against military vehicles are only effective at less than 300 meters, as the standard countermeasures take at least that long to defeat an incoming round.

Technical Squad:  Little more than a converted truck, the 3 ton Wheeled Technical mounts an improvised incendiary mortar and a couple of rifles.  While not much of a threat, the agile technical is often used in large numbers.  The high cost of a technical is somewhat offset by the damage a rapidly moving wheeled vehicle can cause in an urban environment as it created fires with the inferno mortar.

Superheavy Howitzer: This militia squad makes use of the Stabilized Near Impervious Penetrating Explosive Round (SNIPER) Artillery system.  An unguided shell is immune to ECM interference, and by using a tungsten outer casing the incoming round has a high heat resistance to the automated energy intercept sensor systems that all vehicles use to detonate mortars and missiles.  The tungsten outer casing also serves as a good penetrative material, giving the SNIPER anti armor capabilities that can even pierce low tech BAR 4 armor when the round explodes and sends heavy tungsten molten shrapnel across a 90 meter area.  The damage of this heavy tungsten shrapnel is much higher than traditional explosives of an equal amount—the SNIPER round of 100kg is rated as twice as lethal as a simple1000kg HE bomb.  Like a tiny shaped charge can make a copper cone into a deadly anti tank molten spear, the SNIPER round is 20 times more effective at damaging infantry and vehicles of an equal weight in just explosives.  The main weakness of the SNIPER is that the range is slightly reduced compared to the THUMPER—intercept systems can deliver more energy to the larger round and knock it from the sky a few kilometers closer than the smaller THUMPER; the SNIPER is near impervious to intercept systems, not totally impervious after all.  All told, the SNIPER round is fairly low tech if you have access to the materials and know the shaped charge science, so even colonists using 1950 traincar superheavy howitzer guns can make use of the phenominal round.

Year 2200 tech level:

Modern Rifle Platoon: The modern assault rifle fires caseless high stopping power rounds, accurately at a terrifying rate.  A common round is the low velocity 16 gram .45 cal caseless, which trades the long range and high velocity of a traditionally brass jacketed round for devastating stopping power.  A single squad of modern rifles have the stopping power of an entire platoon of older lower tech rifles.  Against armor, Modern Rifle Platoons use very light rocket launchers/under-slung grenade launchers.

Modern Heavy Platoon: A variation on Rifle Platoons, Modern Heavy Platoons upgrade the very light rocket launchers/under-slung grenade launchers for twice as many light rocket launchers/ rocket propelled grenade launchers.  This greatly impacts the units mobility, but for defending entrenched positions or setting up ambushes, the Modern Heavy Platoon can engage from twice the distance thanks to the heavier weaponry.

Modern Mobile Platoon: Another variation on the Modern Rifle Platoon, the Modern Mobile infantry carry the same weapons as the Rifle Platoon, but are equipped with Roll frame All Terrain vehicles (RATvee).  At only 100kg per soldier, the RATvee incorporates a small roll cage to protect the user if the ATV tips over, while also allowing a single soldier to right the vehicle after a crash.

Humvee Squad: A standard wheeled 6 person vehicle, the Humvee mounts a support machine gun to support the embarked rifle infantry.  At 6 tons fully loaded, the main advantage of the Humvee is more protection from small arms compared to a RATvee, though keeping 6 soldiers in close proximity means that more are injured when taking anti vehicle weapons fire.  A Humvee is sometimes more survivable against a cannon round than an APC, as cannon rounds over-penetrate the Humvee only injuring a few crew, while the same cannon round can critically fragment and spalls if it penetrates an armor plate, maiming everyone inside.

LanSe Team:  A Land and Sea (LanSe) vehicle is a 5 ton rigid hull inflatable craft that is light enough to double as a hovercraft on land, carrying a team of 5 soldiers at a time.  Originally designed as beaching craft for wet navy commandos, the LanSe is a very popular craft for any military unit that needs to fight in the water from the land or vice versa.  The most common LanSe Team configuration mounts a 40mm automatic grenade launcher to support the teams rifles.

Light Attack Vtol squad (LAV):  The last dedicated missile platform before the cutting edge LRM makes all prior missiles systems obsolete, the 7.5 ton Light Attack Vtol suffers from just how powerful integrated missile countermeasures have become in the 23rd century.  With laser designation defeated back in the 21st century via laser spoofing systems, and radar guided missiles defeated by battlefield wide jamming, only wire guided missile technology remained 'unhackable' on the modern battlefield--for the 240 meters it took before vehicle sensor systems detected and defeated the large missile.  Purpose built as a Wire Guided Missile delivery system, the Light Attack Vtol can literally crawl along the ground before popping up to shoot a missile, unlike larger helicopters which cant be moved safely along the ground closer than 5 meters or so.  The Light Attack Vtol carries 10 of the large wire guided missiles, and the 8.5 million price tag is offset by the large surplus of missiles from generations past.  A 3 barrel sniper cannon acts as a backup weapon, for supporting friendly infantry with low collateral danger close fire support while remaining outside the range of the modern auto rifle.  A popular variant mounts an Automatic Grenade Launcher in place of the missiles--affectionately known as Air Wolf, this grenade toting Vtol is certainly the future of the LAV design once the free surplus of Wire Guided Missiles is expended.  Despite all it's flaws, the LAV is a very accurate and reliable design when compared to contemporary military support vehicles.  Only the experimental advanced fire support being tested on the 2300+ Terran Alliance support vehicles can match the visually guided missile accuracy on the ecm jammed modern battlefield.

Infantry Fighting Vehicle:  A 13 ton tracked vehicle, the modern IFV mounts a medium rifled cannon, a pair of support machine guns, and carry a crew plus integrated rifle infantry capacity of 7 soldiers.  While not as fast as some other support vehicles, Infantry Fighting Vehicles have exceptional situational awareness, making them more agile, easier to hide, and harder to hit than heavier, better armored tanks.   The IFV pays for this by having to stop to shoot the main gun and only carrying limited ammunition.  In addition, the light armor only protects against small arms, so any anti tank attack is likely to take out the main gun and wound several crew.

Colonial Marine Platoon:  After several colonies and jump ships were lost, the Terran Alliance was forced to provide escort and support for all colonies and their ships during the great exodus.  With hundreds and hundreds of colonies and the Terran economy already straining to support building the thousands of jump ships required, the Colonial Guard was formed with almost no budget but expected to perform as a space-based version of a Terran coast guard.  With funding low, the Colonial Guard forces of the 23rd century had a non-standard force organization using smaller units and squads.  While Terran leadership justified this by saying that the Colonial Guard was not designed as a military fighting force but a civilian support force, the Colonial Guards themselves constantly struggle to make due with shoestring budgets and critical manpower shortages.  The Colonial Marine Platoon is the standard rapid response force of the Colonial Guard.  At only 16 members, the Colonial Marine Platoon is armed with the standard caseless autorifles, and each of the 4 squads is supported by either a flamethrower or automatic grenade launcher.  As xenoplanetary trained forces issued space suits, Colonial Marines can operate in vacuum, trace, tainted and toxic atmospheres.  All the specialized training and combat spacesuits the Marines need to carry for xeno operations have exorbitant price tags of over 5 million per 16 man platoon—10 times higher than the larger 28 man Modern Rifle Platoon.  Due to this, Colonial Marines are stretched thin in their mission to support colonist forces, but are often the only line of defense on many low hospitality worlds, asteroids, and civilian ships suffering depressurization after jump accidents.

Year 2300 tech level:

Terran Shocktroops:  The so-called elite Terran Shocktroops make use of the personal (and extremely expensive) jump packs, along with miniature laser rifles and automatic grenade launchers.  While these troops are very mobile and have increased lethal range thanks to the high tech laser rifles, the cost of outfitting a single Shocktroop platoon could equip an entire regiment of Modern Rifle infantry.  The use of high cost elite troops like their Shocktroops combined with the Terran Alliance needing to transport their military across interstellar voyages is a major factor in the political battles of expansionist versus isolationist ideology on Terra.

Terran Exomarines:  The hostile environment 4 man Exomarine squad make the Terran Shocktroops look absolutely affordable.  Exomarines are outfitted with the finest and most expensive gear possible: Experimental Blazer rifles favored in Free Worlds space, automatic grenade launchers, vacuum zero-g Marine training, and Hostile Environment armored exosuits with integrated jump packs (Further upgraded in 2315 to experimental Marine Environment suits); even the soldiers themselves are cybernetic modified with pain shunts to feel no pain.  The goal of a Terran Marine Exosquad is to instill terror with an implacable, almost inhuman boarding force that makes surrender seem preferable to fighting—several encounters with pirates have demonstrated the Exomarines time and again, a fact spread widely in propaganda pieces.

[DevianID]

Military/Industrial Mechanized Soldier (Mech):  Unveiled in 2300 in closed door showrooms under the shadow of the 960,000 ton Dreadnaught, the Mech was a marriage of the military/industrial complex wrought by the forward thinking of Admiral James Mckenna.  With 4 chassis on display, the military/industrial mechanized soldier (Mech) was envisioned as the next step after the exosuit was unveiled in the 2100s.  While Exosuits are too small to armor, after 200 years instead making armor smaller engineers made the musculature systems of the Exosuit larger.  The Mech is tall for it's weight, taller than a combat vehicle, leading engineers in 2300 to focus industrial applications before military ones.  Modern armor, when stretched over such a large frame, is easier to penetrate than when on a squat armored chassis vehicle of equal tonnage; on the upside the large volume of a Mech allows for much more equipment to be mounted per tonnage compared to vehicles.  The 4 chassis chosen to demonstrate the possible potential of the Mech was a 20 ton, 30 ton, 40 ton, and 70 ton design.  The 20 ton frame is the smallest the designers could make an armored environmentally sealed exoskeleton using the limits of modern material science in 2300.  The 30 ton frame was chosen because it can service 15 ton THUMPER artillery guns.  Likewise, the 40 ton frame was chosen because it can service the 20 ton SNIPER artillery guns.  Since 30 and 40 ton vehicles must be used to counterbalance the lift hoists anyway, and these artillery guns form the backbone of all artillery divisions, making robust industrial mechs of these sizes made the most sense since they fill a need within the army.  Finally, engineers made a 70 ton heavy engineering mech to demonstrate the value of a mech's large volume over support vehicles.

20 ton Handy Industrial Mech.
The 20 ton Handy is the big brother to exoskeletons.  With a fuel cell engine, extended fuel tank, environmental sealing, and a searchlight, the Handy can lift 2 tons of equipment while also traveling over 60 kilometers an hour.  Showcasing the power of the newly invented hand actuators, Handy can work in any environment at any time of day for hours on end.  3 tons of commercial armor keep Handy safe from bumps and crashes as pilots learn how to operate the new type of vehicle.

20 ton Bug Military Mech.
Using a militarized version of Handy, the Bug Mech mounts an18 km telescopic Bug-eye Recon Camera in the head, along with military targeting systems.  In place of the environmental sealing, searchlight and extended fuel tank, the Bug mech uses a more powerful, lighter and longer ranged milspec Fusion engine capable of 90+kph.  With all the power generation, the Bug is able to mount an arm jettison-able state of the art Medium Laser.  Recon and light anti vehicle is the main envisioned job of the Bug Mech, where it can use its ammo independent laser to snipe at targets from range, harassing an enemy for hours if need be.

30 ton Lifter Industrial Mech
Built to service Thumper Cannons in rough counter-battery cratered terrain, the Lifter Industrial mech makes use of a Searchlight for all hours operations and 6 tons of lift equipment.  As an engineering mech, the lift equipment can be replaced if needed with bridgelayers, mine layers, chainsaws, fluid sprayers/suction systems, and cargo tanks rated to hold very voluminous hydrogen fuel.

30 ton Military Alpha Urban MilMech
Using a militarized version of Lifter, the Alpha Military Mech design was the first militarized concept mech produced.  Removing the paired lift hoists, a heavy cannon with a 6 round revolver magazine was paired with a cutting edge prototype small laser.  To give the weapons a 360 degree traverse, the industrial grade hands were removed to make room.  Finally, to help dissapate heat from the prototype small laser, a second heat sink was added to the heat sink in the fuel cell.  All the weight added from the heavy cannon slowed the Lifter from 64 kph to a mere 32; designers countered by branding the mech an Urban fighter.

40 ton Lifter S Industrial Mech
Like the Lifter was built to service the 15 ton THUMPER artillery system, the 40 ton Lifter S is rated to service the 20 ton SNIPER artillery system.  The Lifter S also uses 6 tons of Lift and load equipment with an all hour searchlight, but as the second, larger and more robust Lifter chassis the Lifter S is environmentally sealed to allow for all terrain/water/vacuum operation.  The Lifter S uses a larger Fuel Cell engine than the Lifter, but maintains the same speed as both Handy and Lifter.  The same alternate engineering packages from Lifter are usable on Lifter S, reducing the total number of components between the 2 mechs.

40 ton Military Sword Mech
A medium weight military version of Lifter S was the final prototype brought forth for combat trials, after the 20 ton Bug and 70 ton Calliope.  Making use of a milspec Fusion engine instead of a Fuel Cell, the Lifter Sword totes exclusive prototype experimental weapons, all designed to support the main fighting force in 2300, the infantry platoon.  A pair of prototype medium lasers, one in each arm, give the design some punch up close.  A prototype autocannon 2 paired with a searchlight give accurate support fire for friendly infantry out to the limit of the searchlight's visibility at any time of day.  A prototype LRM 5 volley launcher rounds out the weapons, giving the Sword the ability to support infantry forces with accurate indirect fire that, unlike the THUMPER or SNIPER rounds, wont cause collateral damage to friendlies.  Able to use Recon Camera image data for the LRM's image based ECM proof missile lock system, the Sword is the first in a hopefully long line of Military/Industrial Mechs primarily meant to support traditional infantry forces.

70 ton Hobart Engineering Mech
The 70 ton Hobart was designed to be the be all end all for engineering vehicles.  The large Fuel Cell engine moves the 70 ton Hobart slower than the other industrial or military mechs, but the Hobart can keep pace with the 60 ton tracked weapons carrier that was commonly used for engineering before.  With 4 medium lasers for point defense, 2 in a rear facing turret and one in each arm, the Hobart has a 360 degree threat projection to keep it safe while it lays a minefield covering 1400 by 30 meters.  A 60 ton Mine Carrier support vehicle can only lay a 650 by 30 meter minefield, mounts no defensive weapons, and much less armor.  The 12 tons of mines in the cavernous left and right torso holds can be swapped out for massive 6 ton bridge layers, lift hoists, fluid guns, and all manner of 'funny' combinations.  The massive hands of the Hobart are capable of lifting over 3 tons each without even mounting extra lift equipment.  With Lift Equipment, the Hobart can manually move light fighters and dropshuttles up to 35 tons in weight.

70 ton Calliope Military Mech
Requiring less modification compared to the other military upgrades to industrial mechs, the Calliope switches the fuel cell for the more efficient milspec Fusion engine, and replaces the 24 mine launchers with 40 LRM launchers.  This version keeps the 4 turreted medium lasers, but designers have noted that when the Calliope gets a service upgrade it would be worth while to switch the rear turreted lasers for more LRM ammo.  At only 2 tons of ammo, the Calliope can expend its 240 missiles in only one minute of sustained volley-fire.  Military apologists state this is a feature rather than flaw, as it will keep the Calliope from directly engaging with cannon armed tanks that can penetrate the mechs armor.

EDIT: Changed the 30 and 40 ton designs to be more iconic battlemech designs with prototype weapons, precursors to the Urbanmech and Swordsman/Shadowhawk 2D, based on feedback.  Now all 4 prototype MilMechs are precursor designs fitting with the YF-23 theme.

[Moonsword]

=== MODERATOR NOTICE ===

Do not post custom units in the Fan Campaigns area, and this wasn't a scenario or campaign to begin with.  Failure to follow rules can and will result in warnings.

[RifleMech]

Interesting but I think you're trying to pack too much into the mechs too soon. The Mechs and a lot of the other tech are still in the prototype or just being introduced phase in 2300. I think it'd be a while before they all found their way onto a mech. I'm also not sure a military mech would be created so soon but if it were it'd be using more common weapons. Mostly Machine Guns, Vehicle Flamers, Primitive Rocket Launchers and Rifle Cannons. Other things like Fluid Guns would work too. Everything else is still being tested.

I'd say Chemical Lasers and more primitive versions of LRMs and SRMs, and Rail Guns could also be used but we don't have any canon stats on those.  :'( I would also say Mech Mortars but current canon says they're not available. They were previously though.

The biggest things to remember are to not make them too good or the Mackie wouldn't be such a shock and the only armor available to Mechs at that time is Commercial (BAR-5) Armor.

Edit
Myomer itself wasn't introduced until 2350 so mechs produced before then would have had to use a different musculature. They'd probably be a lot slower than a Primitive Mech with the same engine. I would say that any armed versions would be for security or combat engineering.

[Daryk]

As I posted in the Tribble Emporium, I've come to think BA should have come before 'mechs after 2350.

[Sharpnel]

As I posted in the Tribble Emporium, I've come to think BA should have come before 'mechs after 2350.

That is a proper way to think.

[Daryk]

Well, then!  Perhaps we should get something in that vein going in Fan Fiction?  8)

[DevianID]

So on the idea of military mechs in 2300, as that is when they were invented these prototypes are the 'showroom' models.  Your fancy showcar isnt a cheap assembly line family sedan, its a hand built Ferrari--even if 99% of cars you sell will be family sedans.  So the industrial mechs have fancy 'sports car' fuel cell engines instead of ICE, and the military mech prototypes are like the 3 YF-23 fighters built decades ago for field testing--that fighter was 20 years ahead of it's time at least, but never made it to production.  The 20 ton Bug is clearly a stinger/wasp precursor, and the 70 ton Calliope is otherwise identical to the primitive Archer that came out 100+ years later.

As for weapons, the year 2100 lineup is rocket launchers as the only missile weapons, flamers as the only energy weapons, and ballistic weapons are rifles, machine guns, vehicle grenade launchers, and fluid guns.  After theorizing out all the vehicle and fighter combinations, this limited weapons selection actually is pretty awesome/balanced.  In 2240 the prototype AC5 comes out, so as long as you use FLAK ammo the AC5 is the premier anti aircraft weapon compared to what else is available, but this rapid fire cannon is terrible against tanks--I actually really like how the BAR system interacts with the 8 ton 1-5x2 cluster -2 to-hit AC5 versus the 8 ton 9 damage Heavy Rifle Cannon.

That said, in 2300, prototypes for the Medium Laser and LRM come out along with mechs and aerospace fighters, and these new weapons on a fusion powered mech or aerospace fighter will completely change warfare (thanks to the free 10 heatsinks those 2 units get that even fusion tanks of 2300 dont have yet).  We arnt there yet in 2300 since full production for both is a hundred years away, but the prototypes would and should be showcasing the new weapon systems that are being developed at the same time.

As for battle armor before mechs, I actually disagree.  True battle armor can only exist with the crazy unbelievable amounts of armor the little things get in a post BAR10 world.  You can actually make a pseudo battle armor with a Marine Environment Suit like I did, or with a tracked 1000kg support vehicle.   Its a battery powered, environmentally sealed, 3/5 armored tracked chassis that has a crew of 1 with an auto grenade launcher... it also has 6 points of BAR7 armor spread among 4 hit locations--thus 3 points in the front, one in the side and rear, or 2 in front/side and 1 in rear.  This is pretty much identical to PA(L), which has 2 points of armor but no location roll.  No one I know clamors for PA(L) or Exoskeleton battle armor, they want that crazy 10 points of ablative nonsense medium battle armor. 

In 2300, what I enjoy about the setting is that to survive 10 points of damage to the front or side, thanks to how total armor on armored support vehicles is logically tied to how big they are, you need a 15+ ton vehicle at least.  For vehicles smaller than 15 tons I found no Canon support for, so I used the Mechnized infantry construction rules above.  I made a 5 ton Hovercraft, 6 ton Humvee, 3 ton Technical, 13 ton Light Tank, and 7.5 ton Light Attack Vtol all using the squad Mechanized Infantry rules, as those rules are way less clunky than the 4999kg small support vehicle rules that all leave you with 2 points of armor no matter what.

[Daryk]

Well, I like PA(L), at least.  My thought was simply that lower BAR armor is available, still better than what you can carry with your own legs, and heavy enough that you need ab exoskeleton to do it.

[DevianID]

I am more or less fine with PA(L) armor, since it has only 2 points max, which is what the support rules give you for a ~1 ton support vehicle, and is fairly close to the Marine Combat suit with it's half damage armor divisor.  (which honestly is pretty close to PA(L) armor).  I just dont think PA(L) performs anything special enough to ignore the 2700 introduction date--the bulk of the first post was detailing all the quasi canon combat vees you could see in 2300 after all.

[Daryk]

PA(L) can be dropped from space...  ^-^

[DevianID]

Anything can be dropped from space... once...

But yeah, point taken.  HALO insertions are the best most infantry can do without an insertion vehicle.

[Daryk]

You can sort of get there with PRUs, but they're kind of expensive...

[RifleMech]

I'm still not sure about mechs being that good in 2300. That's a whole bunch of prototype technologies all being put together on the same unit at the same time.  It's a bit hard to believe. I'm also not sure the showroom example works for the time period either. Especially not for military units. It was the IndustrialMech that was first introduced. Not a BattleMech. Especially with so many other prototype technologies. How would the mech creators get a hold of all those other technologies?

I could see IndustrialMechs being showcased but I don't think they'd be for sale. They're more demonstrators of coming technology. Like Stark's hover car. being displayed in the World's Fair. It'd take a while for the techonolgy to be perfected enough to be sold on the open market.


As for Battle Armored Infantry, Exoskeletons date back to around 2100. They'd be available in 2300 and I could easily see them being militarized by that time. In fact I'm sure some infantry would have to be using exoskeletons of one type or another to carry their weapons and gear around. Plus operating in hostile environments besides combat. I would just be careful not to make them too good

[DevianID]

Yeah, the 2300 Terran Alliance Exomarines I put up are using the fairly high tech level, 2 armor divisor 'Hostile Environment' suits, blazer rifles, pain shunts and jump packs--upgraded to the more powerful 'Marine Environment' suit when it comes available in 2315. This is the highest tech most expensive exoskeleton infantry I could make possible in 2300, and there probably isn't much more than a few spec-op teams.  The 2 points of armor you slap on Exoskeletons to make PA(L) doesn't get invented for, like, 400 more years from what im seeing.

As for the primitive industrial mechs, yeah I agree you wont see these 'concept' cars on the battlefield... they are fan designs of possibilities after all; we have no canon support for almost any unit before 2300, as I try to show in the first post.  But they DID get introduced in 2300, same as warship technology; the 960,000 ton TAS Dreadnaught was fully deployed the same year, so we know the terran hegemony can field fully mature technology the same year it comes out.  So SOME industrial mech is running around in 2300, even if its only 1 like the TAS Dreadnaught.

[Daryk]

The trick is BAR 2 (or even 3 or more) armor is light enough (at TL B/C) to be supported by exoskeletons.  That should mean "armored" infantry would be possible, even in 2300.  Heck, we're looking at that now.  The obstacle at the moment is power density to keep an exoskeleton operating for long enough...

[DevianID]

While BAR2 armor would work for the 1000kg support vehicle rules (which have 2 front/2 side/1 rear armor max), BAR2 stuff isnt what power armor uses.  BAR2 makes sense for vehicles, because of the battle tech infantry abstraction making infantry weapons lose their AP, but once you bring the Exoskeleton with 2 points of BAR2/3 armor over to the infantry rules side of things, it gets MAULED--its basically got no armor protection there right?.  Since I cant see power armor working if it cant handle the infantry side of things too, I think the later introduction of BAR10 armor is required at minimum for battle armor to work right.

[Liam's Ghost]

An average person with a knife can consistently damage a BAR 2 armored vehicle at the RPG scale. An elemental has a good chance of just punching it to death.

Personally, I'm prepared to argue that anything below BAR 4 shouldn't have existed in the first place.

[Daryk]

The trick is that even BAR 2 armor is tactical armor, not personal.  It works differently.  In any case, up to BAR 7 armor should be available in 2300, and that also would take an exoskeleton to carry.

[Liam's Ghost]

The trick is that even BAR 2 armor is tactical armor, not personal. It works differently.

Yeah, BAR 2 personal armor might actually protect you from an unpowered knife.  ;D A guy stabs a simca ambulance with that same knife, the ambulance dies.

[Liam's Ghost]

In any case, up to BAR 7 armor should be available in 2300, and that also would take an exoskeleton to carry.

Funny thing, the A Time of War rules describe the two points of armor on an exoskeleton as basically BAR 5 (it actually varies based on type of damage, how many points you have, and whether it's inner sphere or clan(!) ) , but it's more high tech than normal support vehicle tactical armor of the same rating and thus too sophisticated to have. Yet another point where rulesets collide. I think that one goes back to A Time of War's predecessor system and is a leftover from when the RPG treated a battlesuit's protection like standard personal armor rather than giving it the benefit of all those battletech scale armor points.

[Daryk]

Agreed... that's definitely one of the problems.  I've maintained for a while now that the AP vs. BAR system has the potential to the be the E=mc² of the BT universe.  And this discussion has only reinforced that belief.

[DevianID]

Vehicles:
For vehicles in battletech 2300, we have numerous sources in the fluff from the earliest vehicles in each class that these primitive designs were themselves replacing an even older version of the same kind of vehicle.  So for each of these Canon vehicles, I went in and built a Tech B year 2100 version, a Tech C year 2200 version, and a Tech D year 2300 version.  The reason for 3 tech levels is because independent and periphery powers often have only tech B manufacturing, putting them at a 2100-2199 year levels.  The proto-houses and shipping conglomerates that all eventually merge to the great houses are better developed and can produce Tech C manufacturing and ship it to their lower tech worlds, putting them at year 2200-2299 year levels.  The Terran Alliance of course has the highest tech, but also suffered from infighting that left all but 20ish worlds (from 600+) supported.  So they have a mix of year 2300 tech, gradually getting worse the further outside the 'supported' 30 light year sphere you are.

10 ton APC.  Has a machine gun in a turret with basic fire control (2 tons) and 1 ton for infantry support, with max armor for the chassis.  Variants remove the weapon for a 3 ton cargo or MASH bay.
   Year 2100: Wheeled chassis, BAR 4 armor, 3/5 speed.
   Year 2200: Upgrades to Tracked chassis, BAR 5 armor, still 3/5 speed.
   Year 2300: Terran Alliance Hover chassis, BAR 5 armor, 7/11 speed
   Year 2390: Canon APC (all types) BAR6 armor, Tracked gets +1 mgun, Wheeled gets 4/6,          off road, and +1 mgun
   Colonial Marines: 15 tons, 4/6 Wheeled (Fuel Cell), 31 points BAR2, Light Cannon (18 Shots),       Mgun, Advanced FC, 2 Ton Infantry Bay

10 ton Attack Vtol.  Has a machine gun and 4 rocket pods.  Max armor for the size, basic fire control.
   Year 2100: 5/8 speed, BAR2 armor, 10.5 tons
   Year 2200: 8/12 speed (Fuel Cell)/ 6/9 (ICE), BAR4 armor
   Year 2300: 10/15 speed (Fuel Cell)/ 8/12 (ICE), BAR5 armor
   Year 2371: 7/11 (ICE) Strike Falcon, 30t, BAR7, 6t Infantry bay, replaces 'Bird of Prey'

55 ton AWACS.  Has all 3 types of Satellite Imagers, 7 tons of communication equipment
   Year 2100: 3/5 Support Vehicle (ICE), max BAR2 armor.
   Year 2200: 4/6 Primitive Aerospace fighter, 14 tons armor

40 ton Heavy Fighter.  Has mgun and 12 ton internal bomb bay, ICE engine for MACH2 supercruise
   Year 2100: 3/5, 40 points BAR2 armor
   Year 2200: 4/6, 41 points BAR3 armor
   Year 2300: 5/8, 44 points BAR3 armor, Advanced Fire Control
   Year 2354: Colt Medium Fighter.  5/8, 44 points BAR5 armor, 4 hardpoints, 2 LRM5, AFC
Year 2328: Vendetta 'Medium' Fighter. 60 tons, 5/8 Fusion (MACH3 Supercruise), Armored Chassis, 54 points BAR10! Armor, AFC, L Laser, 2 M Laser, S Laser, 6 External Stores

80 ton Heavy Tank. Armored Chassis, Advanced Fire Control, max armor.
   Year 2100: 2/3, BAR5 armor.  2 Mgun, 2 RL10, 2 VGL, Heavy Cannon with 24 shots
   Year 2200: 3/5, BAR7, same weapons
   Year 2310: Estevez MBT(Davion), drops 2 RL+Advanced FC for 42 shots instead of 24
   Year 2295: 3/5, BAR7, 2 Mgun, 2 VGL, Prototype AC5, Prototype LRM10 (Merkava IV?)
   Year 2384: Merkava VI, 75 tons, 80 points BAR7 armor, AC5/SRM4/LRM10/Mgun

30 ton Heavy Transport VTOL, max 34 points armor
   Year 2100: 6/9, BAR2, 9 tons Cargo or 3 Arresting Hoist (45 ton lift)
   Year 2317: Cobra Vtol Transport.  8/12, BAR6, 9 tons Cargo, 5 MGUN + Advanced FC

40 ton Hovertank.  7/11 (ICE) max armor (44 points)
   Year 2200: BAR6 armor, 8 tons cargo (Hover Vehicle Transport/HVT-1?)
   Year 2300: BAR7 armor, AC5, Primitive LRM5, Turret, Advanced Fire Control (LTV-1?)
   Year 2298: Ashur Hoverscout: 45 tons, 8/12, 49 points BAR7, 2 LRM5, 3 Mgun, Vflamer

25 ton Light Fighter/Attack.  MGUN+6 tons Internal Bomb Bay, ICE engine (MACH2 Supercruise)
   Year 2100: 3/5, 20 points BAR2
   Year 2200: 4/6, 29 points BAR2 armor
   Year 2300: 5/8, 26 points BAR3 armor
   Year 2297: Hurricane.  6/9, 29 points BAR5, Mgun+RL15, 2 External Hardpoints
   Year 2302: Mosquito.  6/9 Fusion (Supercruise MACH3), 24 points BAR6, LRM5 + 2          MGUN, 2 External Hardpoints

65 ton Main Battle Tank.  Armored Chassis, max armor, advanced fire control
   Year 2100: 2/3, BAR5, 3 VGL, Mgun, Heavy Rifle, 18 shots
   Year 2200: 3/5, BAR6, 3 VGL, Mgun, Heavy Rifle, 24 shots
   Year 2240: 3/5, BAR7, 3 VGL, Mgun, Prototype AC5, 30 shots
   Year 2396: Marsden I, 3/5, BAR7, SRM-6, Mgun, AC5, 3 tons ammo total
   Year 2384: Merkava VI, 75 tons, 80 points BAR7 armor, AC5/SRM4/LRM10/Mgun
   
50 ton Medium Tank.  Max armor, Advanced Fire Control
   Year 2100: 3/5, BAR3 Mgun, RL10, Medium Rifle, 12 shots
   Year 2200: 4/6, BAR5 Mgun, RL10, Medium Rifle, 12 shots
   Year 2300: 5/8 (Fuel Cell), BAR6, Mgun, RL10, Prototype MLAS, (KVN-1)
   Year 2367: Korvin KVN-2, 5/8 (Fusion), BAR6, Mgun, LRM-5, Large Laser

30 ton Mobile Tactical Command/Jamming.  Wheeled Chassis, Off Road, 7 Tons Communication
   Year 2100: 3/5.  3 Tons Infantry, 60 Points BAR2
   Year 2200: 4/6.  3 Tons Infantry, 64 Points BAR4
   Year 2317: Dunning Mobile Tactical Command Post.  5/8, 64 points BAR6, 3 Tons Infantry

Refueling Plane.  55 tons.  Fluid Suction, Refueling Drogue
   Year 2100: 3/5 ICE, 55 points BAR2, 17.5 ton Liquid Cargo
   Year 2200: 4/6 Primitive Aerospace, 69 armor, 25 ton Liquid Cargo, Improved Smart Robotic

Infantry Fighting Vehicle.  3 Ton Infantry Bay, Armored Chassis
   Year 2200: 3/5, 25 tons, 3 mgun, 54 points BAR6, Basic FC
   Year 2284: Chi-Ha Infantry Combat Vehicle, 22t, 3/5, 48 points BAR5, 3 mgun, B FC
   Year 2352: Chi-Ha Infantry Combat Vehicle, 22t, 4/6, 48 points BAR6, 3 mgun, A FC

Various Support Unit

   Year 2100 Support Truck 25 tons, 4/6 Wheeled, 54 points BAR4 armor, 5.5 tons equipment
   Ambulance: Mash Unit (1 Theater) Paramedic (4) 1 Ton Cargo
   Tractor: Tractor (1.5 tons) 4 Tons Cargo
   Crane: 54 points BAR3 armor, 2/3 speed, 4 Lift Hoist (50 ton lift capacity)
   Year 2341 Carter Medical Emergency Response Vehicle 25 tons 5/8 Wheeled Off-Road, 52          points BAR6, 4 Paramedic, MASH 2 theaters, 2 tons cargo
   Year 2300 Randolf Support Vehicle, 35 tons, 4/6, 62 points BAR5, 3 Mgun, Basic Fire          Support, Tractor, 9 tons cargo
   Year 2250 Stoat Scout Car, 15 tons, 5/8 (Fusion) Wheeled Off-Road Armored Chassis, 31          points    BAR7, 1 Mgun, Basic FC, 1t Communications

30 Ton Self Propelled Thumper, Wheeled, Thumper Cannon with 60 shots
   Year 2100: 1/ 2 speed, 40 points BAR2
   Year 2200: 2/3 speed, 62 points BAR2
   Year 2300: 3/5 speed, 64 points BAR2, Advanced Fire Control
   Year 2321: Reaper Self-Propelled Artillery, 3/5 Tracked, A FC, 72 points BAR6, Slas

60 Ton Weapons Carrier, Tracked
   Year 2100: 3/5 Armored Chassis, 79 points BAR5, B FC, (10xRL10) OR (11xMine Launchers)
   Year 2200: 3/5, 62 points BAR6, B FC, SNIPER with 40 shots, (2295 2 LRM-20 with 24 Shots)
   Year 2321: Apostle Self-Propelled Artillery.  80 Tons, 3/5 Tracked, 104 points BAR6, Slas,          Sniper with 30 shots, A FC
   Year 2300: 3/5, 78 points BAR6, A FC, 4 Primitive AC2 with 4 tons ammo
   Year 2440: Primitive AC/2 Carrier, 4 AC/2, 2 tons ammo, A FC, 78 point BAR6, 55 tons

[RifleMech]

As for the primitive industrial mechs, yeah I agree you wont see these 'concept' cars on the battlefield... they are fan designs of possibilities after all; we have no canon support for almost any unit before 2300, as I try to show in the first post.  But they DID get introduced in 2300, same as warship technology; the 960,000 ton TAS Dreadnaught was fully deployed the same year, so we know the terran hegemony can field fully mature technology the same year it comes out.  So SOME industrial mech is running around in 2300, even if its only 1 like the TAS Dreadnaught.

I do think it's a shame that there isn't more support for this and earlier eras. I get that they don't want to play in earlier time periods. However, that equipment is what would have been prevalent in 2300. And with how long it can take tech to go extinct some could still be in use a century or more later. It could even still be in use really on some planet or far flung jumpship.

I also agree that if the Terran Alliance had wanted they could mass produce early IndustrialMechs. Unfortunately, we don't know how to build them.  :( I wish we did. I wish we didn't have any tech gaps.

The vehicles look pretty good. I wish we had more variety in weapons though.

[DevianID]

Yeah the lack of weapons hurts, but I actually enjoy seeing how "modern" designs would look scaled back to 2300.  Rifle(cannons) replace all direct energy and autocannon 10+ guns, and 9 damage for 8 tons at 18 hexes in 2300 bar7 time is pretty cool.  Ac5s and ac2s are dedicated anti aircraft rapid fire guns in 2300 since rifle cannons exist.  I replace each 2 srms with 1 vgl, which delivers frag, smoke, or inferno rounds (making the comparison fair) and each 5 lrms is a rocket launcher 10.  I haven't done much with flamers, but honestly the flamer is downright deadly considering how much infantry is running around in 2300.

As for early industrial mechs, not having a canon design hurts considering the possibilities.  In 2300 they have bar5 armor and +4 to crit rolls, but have engines with all the free heat sinks and mobility/physical attacks, so mech versus tank combat would be really interesting.

[Daryk]

*snip*
I haven't done much with flamers, but honestly the flamer is downright deadly considering how much infantry is running around in 2300.
*snip*

This probably explains the alleged terror 'mechs bring to the battlefield... the memory of all that plasma scarred generations...  ^-^