Author Topic: Unnamed Patton/Rommel Tank variant (Plasma Rifle)  (Read 1242 times)

Black_Knyght

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Unnamed Patton/Rommel Tank variant (Plasma Rifle)
« on: 21 September 2018, 17:08:54 »
An as-yet-unnamed  3075 era variant of the Patton/Rommel Heavy Tank for thoughts, opinions, and constructive input.
Pootential Patton/Rommel appropriate/equivalent/related names suggestions welcomed too.



==========



Unnamed Patton/Rommel Tank variant


Code: [Select]
Unnamed Patton/Rommel Tank variant (Plasma Rifle)
-------------------
Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Level: 2  Era: Succession Wars
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced        - 
Standard      3075+
Tech Rating: E/X-X-E-D

Weight: 65 tons
BV: 1,029
Cost: 3,221,075 C-bills
Source: TRO- Black Knights

Movement: 4/6 (Tracked)
Engine: 260

Internal: 35
Armor: 198 (Heavy Ferro-Fibrous)
        Internal  Armor   
---------------------------
Front          7     50   
Right          7     40   
Left           7     40   
Rear           7     28   
Turret         7     40   

Weapons       Loc  Heat 
-------------------------
Plasma Rifle   TU   10   
Medium Laser   TU    3   
Machine Gun    TU    0   
Flamer         TU    3   
Machine Gun    FR    0   
Machine Gun    FR    0   
Flamer         RR    3   


Ammo                   Loc  Shots 
-----------------------------------
Half Machine Gun Ammo   BD    100 
Plasma Rifle Ammo       BD     10 
Plasma Rifle Ammo       BD     10 
Plasma Rifle Ammo       BD     10 

Equipment  Loc 
----------------
CASE        BD

Iron Grenadier

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Re: Unnamed Patton/Rommel Tank variant (Plasma Rifle)
« Reply #1 on: 21 September 2018, 17:51:43 »
Seems like a logical progression of the series.

For a name, I'd suggest Sherman; the WW2 M4 Sherman tank had a flamethrower variant, and it was also named after a general.

Ruger

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Re: Unnamed Patton/Rommel Tank variant (Plasma Rifle)
« Reply #2 on: 21 September 2018, 18:47:13 »
An as-yet-unnamed  3075 era variant of the Patton/Rommel Heavy Tank for thoughts, opinions, and constructive input.
Pootential Patton/Rommel appropriate/equivalent/related names suggestions welcomed too.



==========



Unnamed Patton/Rommel Tank variant


Code: [Select]
Unnamed Patton/Rommel Tank variant (Plasma Rifle)
-------------------
Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Level: 2  Era: Succession Wars
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced        - 
Standard      3075+
Tech Rating: E/X-X-E-D

Weight: 65 tons
BV: 1,029
Cost: 3,221,075 C-bills
Source: TRO- Black Knights

Movement: 4/6 (Tracked)
Engine: 260

Internal: 35
Armor: 198 (Heavy Ferro-Fibrous)
        Internal  Armor   
---------------------------
Front          7     50   
Right          7     40   
Left           7     40   
Rear           7     28   
Turret         7     40   

Weapons       Loc  Heat 
-------------------------
Plasma Rifle   TU   10   
Medium Laser   TU    3   
Machine Gun    TU    0   
Flamer         TU    3   
Machine Gun    FR    0   
Machine Gun    FR    0   
Flamer         RR    3   


Ammo                   Loc  Shots 
-----------------------------------
Half Machine Gun Ammo   BD    100 
Plasma Rifle Ammo       BD     10 
Plasma Rifle Ammo       BD     10 
Plasma Rifle Ammo       BD     10 

Equipment  Loc 
----------------
CASE        BD

Could continue with the whole WW2 tank general naming scheme, and call it the Montgomery...

As to the design itself, my biggest thing would be the use of 'Mech flamers rather than vehicle flamers when you already have the plasma rifle using up the engine's integral heat sinks (the medium laser does the same, but is less bothersome to me). By doing this, each flamer costs you four tons (1 for the flamer itself and 3 for the heat sinks)...I think I would rather replace one of the flamers with another medium laser, and then replace the other with 2 vehicle flamers, and 1 or two tons of ammo for them. The remaining 1 or 2 tons (depending on the amount of ammo used) could go for more armor...Or you could replace both flamers and their heat sinks with the paired vehicle flamers and ammo and a LRM-10 rack with a ton of ammo, or a SRM rack with a couple tons of ammo...

Also, I seem to be coming up a half-ton light when doing out the math vs. what I'm seeing of the design?

Ruger
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Black_Knyght

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Re: Unnamed Patton/Rommel Tank variant (Plasma Rifle)
« Reply #3 on: 21 September 2018, 21:16:47 »
Okay, based on your suggestions and input I came up with the following:


Sherman Heavy Tank (Patton/Rommel variant)


Code: [Select]
Sherman Heavy Tank (Patton/Rommel variant)
-------------------
Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Level: 2  Era: Succession Wars
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced        - 
Standard      3075+
Tech Rating: E/X-X-E-D

Weight: 65 tons
BV: 1,135
Cost: 3,334,925 C-bills
Source: TRO- Black Knights

Movement: 4/6 (Tracked)
Engine: 260

Internal: 35
Armor: 218 (Heavy Ferro-Fibrous)
        Internal  Armor   
---------------------------
Front          7     53   
Right          7     45   
Left           7     45   
Rear           7     30   
Turret         7     45   

Weapons           Loc  Heat 
-----------------------------
Plasma Rifle       TU   10   
Medium Laser       TU    3   
Medium Laser       TU    3   
Flamer (Vehicle)   TU    3
Machine Gun        TU    0     
Machine Gun        FR    0   
Machine Gun        FR    0   
Flamer (Vehicle)   RR    3   

Ammo                         Loc  Shots 
-----------------------------------------
Plasma Rifle Ammo             BD     10 
Plasma Rifle Ammo             BD     10 
Plasma Rifle Ammo             BD     10 
Vehicle Flamer Ammo           BD     20 
Coolant Vehicle Flamer Ammo   BD     20 
Half Machine Gun Ammo         BD    100 

Equipment  Loc 
----------------
CASE        BD

maxcarrion

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Re: Unnamed Patton/Rommel Tank variant (Plasma Rifle)
« Reply #4 on: 24 September 2018, 07:32:05 »
For me this gets lost terribly in the middle of better options

Too heavy to fit in a light vehicle bay, too light to be a serious line fighter

Too slow to be cavalry, slower than I like my general purpose tanks (unless I'm stuck with ICE).  Too slow to bring that PR to bear on the "right" targets.  Still fast enough to have spent significantly on the engine though.

Weapons are a bit of a mish-mash with lots of anti infantry, a bit of anti-tank but nothing that'll reach beyond 15 hexs, 4 ton medium lasers and its too slow to dictate the range

Too cheap and space inefficient for a dropship combat drop.  Too expensive and specialist for a militia

Personally I'd look for a 50T, 5/8 plasma rifle platform with less frills - just replace the PPC on a Myrm would work.

And maybe consider something around the 80T 3/5 mark for a line tank - like a zhukov and give it a bit more reach than a PR main gun restricts it to.  You can refit a Zhukov with a SFE and get a PPC, LRM15 and LB10-X on it which can really reach out and touch someone and give air assets serious reason to avoid the area

AngryButler with a KNIFE!

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Re: Unnamed Patton/Rommel Tank variant (Plasma Rifle)
« Reply #5 on: 26 September 2018, 06:24:41 »
Tried my hand at re-arranging things a bit.


Sherman Firefly Heavy Tank Patton/Rommel variant

Code: [Select]
Mass: 65 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 0
Cost: 3,760,625 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,117

Power Plant:  260 Fusion Engine
Cruise Speed: 43.2 km/h
Flanking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Armor:  Heavy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  Plasma Rifle
    1  Light PPC
    1  SRM-4
    2  Machine Guns
    1  Vehicle Flamer
    1 Unknown CASE
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      35 points                6.50
Engine:             Fusion Engine                260                      20.50
    Cruise MP:  4
    Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             15                        5.00
Control Equipment:                                                         3.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            0.00
Turret:                                                                    1.00
Armor:              Heavy Ferro-Fibrous          AV - 198                 10.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     50       
                                          Left/Right   40/40       
                                              Turret     40       
                                                Rear     28       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Machine Gun                                  FR        0         1         0.50
Vehicle Flamer                               FR        3         1         0.50
SRM-4                                        FR        3         1         2.00
Plasma Rifle                                 T         10        1         6.00
Machine Gun                                  T         0         1         0.50
Light PPC                                    T         5         1         3.00
CASE                                         BD        -         1         0.50
@MG (1/2) (100)                              BD        -         0         0.50
@Plasma Rifle (30)                           BD        -         0         3.00
@Vehicle Flamer (20)                         BD        -         0         1.00
@SRM-4 (25)                                  BD        -         0         1.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      7    Points: 11
4t         3       3       1       0      3     0   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: CASE, TUR(2/2/1)


Dropped to 2x Mguns (half ton ammo), pulled one Flamer and changed the other to a Vehicle Flamer (1 ton ammo). Dropped one ML entirely and then stuck a LPPC in place of the other one. To make up for the range gap the LPPC creates up close, I added an SRM4 into the nose with room for 1 ton of ammo of choice (Inferno, Normal, or other). Finally, since the SRM ammo does create a minor worry about a bad hit wiping your unit, to say nothing of the Mgun ammo, I used CASE to protect everything.

Only being able to do 5 at 18 is meh at best, but at least it starts getting you into being to shoot something back at Clanners, and the range overlap works well with the Plasma Rifle's once you hit mid-range for both. On the other hand, only doing 5 damage at 18 means you'll actually get shot BACK at by Clanners that might normally ignore you. Your mileage may vary.

I'd have put the SRM4 in the turret, much like the Patton/Rommel's old LRM-5, but it would have gone a half ton overweight.

maxcarrion is still correct though, no matter how you cut it, if you want to have that Plasma Rifle AND have a substantial anti-infantry loadout together, you're looking at it just not being very combat efficient no matter what is added on, as there just isn't enough room to make it a viable anti-armor unit AND a viable anti-infantry unit. Just about the only way to get around this would be a LFE, but since you were going for low-cost, that isn't an option.
« Last Edit: 26 September 2018, 06:27:45 by AngryButler with a KNIFE! »
I love my Wiesel XII. Yes, yes I do.

maxcarrion

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Re: Unnamed Patton/Rommel Tank variant (Plasma Rifle)
« Reply #6 on: 26 September 2018, 07:51:14 »
Correct me if I'm wrong (I can't use SAW on this machine) but, accepting the chassis as is, there are 14 tons for payload after the Plasma Rifle and 30 shots are mounted, how about

3 MG - (front, left, right) - 1/2 ton of ammo - 2 tons
3 MML5 - all in turret - 9 tons
2 tons MML ammo (as standard LRM and Inferno)
That leaves 1 ton which I think may be needed to uprate the turret - if not a ton of standard SRM maybe - or a TAG

So now you have 15 tubes of LRM reaching out to range 21 - greatly reducing the movement/range issue and allowing the Sherman to get involved from any range, maybe even lawn dart an ASF
15 tubes of inferno to make sure infantry and vehicles up close have a really really bad day - enough even to warm up a mech respectably or toast some BA.
Close protection MGs, just in case anyone gets cheeky
Some ability to perform special mission using specialist ammo (mine laying, mine clear, flechette, fire support etc)
The PR and the Inferno's combine to make this one mean infantry hunter that can also handle enemy armour where required.

Black_Knyght

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Re: Unnamed Patton/Rommel Tank variant (Plasma Rifle)
« Reply #7 on: 26 September 2018, 12:17:15 »
Okay, took those suggestions and reworked things accordingly. While I'm not a fan of the too common trend of min/max optimizing to exploit the rules wherever possible, I do actually like the result here.

Kind of a Sherman Firefly/Calliope hybrid.  ;)




3 MG - (front, left, right) - 1/2 ton of ammo - 2 tons ( DONE )
3 MML5 - all in turret - 9 tons ( DONE )
2 tons MML ammo (as standard LRM and Inferno) ( DONE )
That leaves 1 ton which I think may be needed to up-rate the turret - if not a ton of standard SRM maybe - or a TAG ( NOPE, actually had to lose the CASE to accommodate this )




Sherman Heavy Tank (Patton/Rommel variant 2)

[/size]
Code: [Select]
Sherman Heavy Tank (v2)
-------------------
Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Level: 2  Era: Succession Wars
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced        - 
Standard      3075+
Tech Rating: E/X-X-E-D

Weight: 65 tons
BV: 1,186
Cost: 3,536,225 C-bills
Source: TRO- Black Knights

Movement: 4/6 (Tracked)
Engine: 260

Internal: 35
Armor: 218 (Heavy Ferro-Fibrous)
        Internal  Armor   
---------------------------
Front          7     55   
Right          7     43   
Left           7     43   
Rear           7     34   
Turret         7     43   

Weapons       Loc  Heat 
-------------------------
Plasma Rifle   TU   10   
MML 5          TU    3   
MML 5          TU    3   
MML 5          TU    3   
Machine Gun    FR    0   
Machine Gun    RS    0   
Machine Gun    LS    0   

Ammo                    Loc  Shots 
------------------------------------
Plasma Rifle Ammo        BD     10 
Plasma Rifle Ammo        BD     10 
Plasma Rifle Ammo        BD     10 
MML 5 LRM Ammo           BD     24 
MML 5 SRM Inferno Ammo   BD     20 
Half Machine Gun Ammo    BD    100

 

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