The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!

[Colt Ward]

Not sure who all they descend from but . . . yeah, you have a few of the real Marik bloodline floating around.  Fontaine in Tamarind, Kenyon as sort-of heir to the Marik-Stewart remains, Thad's brother out in the Rim Commonality or maybe back in Oriente as he was placed as a economic trouble-shooter and marrying Nikol's cousin from the Rim, and a think a few more distant types under different names.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Fontaine is directly descended from Janos, as is Kenyon II, I believe.  The problem is that Fontaine is a childless widower and Kenyon was disinherited, so neither one of them is exactly in great position.

[Colt Ward]

Yeah, Fontaine was at least in the fiction and seemed to have adopted Christopher while Kenyon is a SB show up.  Thad's little brother, I do not even remember his name, was also written as a less than viable choice- schemer/manipulator rather than leader.

[MarauderD]

Are Fontaine and Kenyon featured in any fiction?  I wouldn't mind learning more about them. 

[Colt Ward]

Kenyon is not but Fontaine is in the MWO fiction- in fact Trillian meets him to try to get Tamarind to surrender.  Roderick gets abandoned on the world by good old Brewer . . . basically read the last of the MWDA books to get the FWL arc.

[Arkansas Warrior]

IIRC there’s a meeting between Christopher HHM and Fontaine in one of the novels.

[Colt Ward]

A couple actually . . . he meets Fontaine on his tour and gives his mother's pitch.  Then when Hammerfall kicks off, he takes aid to Fontaine and sneaks in . . . spends some time locked up b/c he tried to sneak onto the palace grounds.  He is in the audience when Trillian gives him the ultimatium, tries to hide from the officer at her heals.  Then this is where it sorts of splits between two books . . . he is involved in the planning against a Lyran landing, Fontaine thinks of this when they are standing around a map and mentally says he will not let the boy take a light hover out again- but props for the courage, his doing so without fanfare, and knowing when to get out- those who did not follow his orders were lost.  In the Lyran POV book where Trillian goes to Tamarind, Roderick lands and is beset outside the LZ by some hovers- J Edgars or Savannah Masters, I cannot remember which.  Implication is that was Chris action.

Later Fontaine gives him a modern Cronus to participate in the re-taking of Tamarind from the Lyran garrison.

Finally, when the League is reforming Fontaine takes his place on the stage with Christopher by his side- based on various hints its implied that Fontaine will have Christopher as his heir . . .

Makes you wonder if he was involved in the push against the Marians . . . would he be a company or battalion commander among the Tamarind Regulars units involved?

[Minemech]

 He needs to get Christopher a wife. One of Illyrian heritage might be a good start.

[Colt Ward]

Might be . . . or one of those independent worlds between Hegemony territory & League . . . or say a wife off Bolan or other conquered Lyran world.

Hell, NIKOL needs to pop out some offspring- though at least her sister Elise is married and was working on her own brood.

[The Eagle]

Kenyon being disinherited from Marik-Stewart makes little difference.  The MSC is gone, eaten by the Wolves, and he married the heir of the Duchy of Graham-Marik so he does at least have a claim to nobility through his in-laws (though they are a cadet line way out of the line of succession).  Curious point: Kenyon's Juliano, Roman, is painted in Marik Militia/Protector colors rather than the Loyalty Defenders, based out of his new in Graham-Marik.

Also, Marauder, just to clarify.  Fontaine is the son of Photon Brett-Marik, whose mother Therese was disinherited by Janos when she eloped with Jeremy Brett.  Legally, he has no standing to claim the Captain-Generalcy.  Kenyon II is the son of Anson, who is either Corrine Marik's son or grandson (I don't recall if he was Giselle's brother or son).  Corrine of course was the last legal Captain-General of the original League, though she was tarred by the action of her father, Paul, another of Janos' brood, who sided with the Master and the Blakists.

[GespenstM]

Since it's a slow weekend, I'll toss up some idle thoughts and see if they get anywhere for interesting discussions.


 - The Grand Titan N10M actually is acceptable from 3055 to 3057. During this span of time, none of its rivals are massively better (except the tdk-7x, but that thing's so much better than any other assault of its time that it's not worth factoring in). The BRZ-A3 Berserker is only slightly better than the N10M is, and the Atlases of the time fill a completely different mission role than the traditional Atlas did. I'm not saying the N10M is GOOD, because it's not, but it's at least playable in that specific window of time. It becomes awful around 3058, but that's the same time the N11M upgrade becomes available. By the time the N11M is no longer worth playing, the MAD-6M arrives to take over its role. Then the Juliano appears to beat all of them at the role.

With this in mind, I would some day love to see a N10M refit that converts it to a more generalized design, akin to how most contemporary Atlases work. The N13M is not this. It is a good commander-survivability unit, but it is not a generalist.


 - The lack of CASE on units with Gauss Rifles bothers me. It's not a problem in one-off game play where you can just disable auto eject, but in campaigns where protecting your pilot matters... units like the Tempest suffer due to it. You either have to disable it and risk the SRM ammo bin killing the pilot, or leave it on and risk super-early ejection from a lucky crit to the Gauss. The TDR-10M fixes this to some degree by simply omitting CASE and ensuring all its explosive bits are things you want to auto-eject from.

The Anzu, despite my growing displeasure with it, also fixes this by including CASE II. I think in a true 'campaign environment', both the TDR-10M and the Anzu would actually be better than the Tempest for these reasons.


 - After studying a variety of Mechs, I have come to the conclusion that the ones that demonstrate the best game design are ones whose strategy notably changes based on range to the target. The Mad Cat Mk II 4 is a poor example; it uses the same weapon bracket at every range in virtually all situations, so the player does not have to think or make trade-offs. The Mad Cat III on the other hand significantly changes based on which range band it's in; at range it's a LRM boat. At medium distance, it's that plus a few lasers. Up close, it's a ton of tiny lasers backing some medium ones. The player thus has lots of decisions to make, depending on what their current priority is. This makes the Mad Cat III (Standard) a fun design.

[Cavalier]

Kenyon is not but Fontaine is in the MWO fiction- in fact Trillian meets him to try to get Tamarind to surrender.  Roderick gets abandoned on the world by good old Brewer . . . basically read the last of the MWDA books to get the FWL arc.

Kenyon was re-introduced after being briefly mentioned in the Touring the Stars articles and the Fortress Republic novel in the BCorps novella "The Eagle's Plunge." Given that BCorps has been down for a very long time I basically have no idea how you would go about accessing that fiction, though.

[truetanker]

Heck I've run a mixed unit of 10th Marik Militia using a lance of Grand Titan's, Co using N11M and 3 N10M's supporting. Also run the " classic " tank formation five, two of Lt. Gauss Ontos and three of supporting MML Ontos variants. I also love the Badger and Galleon combo, use them as often as I can!

TT

[Minemech]

Kenyon was re-introduced after being briefly mentioned in the Touring the Stars articles and the Fortress Republic novel in the BCorps novella "The Eagle's Plunge." Given that BCorps has been down for a very long time I basically have no idea how you would go about accessing that fiction, though.

It is good to see you again, Cavalier.

[GespenstM]

I'm curious, how did that Grand Titan lance work out? On paper it seems like it would struggle against gauss-wall formations, but maybe it has just enough speed and armor to get in and go all Zangief on the opposing team?

[truetanker]

N11M sniped while The 3 just swatting anything that got into the way as all four moved in tandem.

The Ontos cruised and helped lay down firepower while the Badgers and Galleons provided BA support.

I want to mix it up with Bulldog Cell and Goblin Upgrade / Goblin II. Maybe 2 Cell and 2 Upgrade with a single II? or Double II and a single Upgrade?

Anyway I can carry 3 full Platoons of these guys!
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Heavy_Foot_LRM_Infantry

TT

[GespenstM]

I would like someone to change my mind on something. I know, that sounds like the meme, but I'm serious; I have a strong opinion on something that stands in strong contrast to most of the other people in this thread and I'm hoping one of you can convince me.

I'd like to talk about the ZU-G60 Anzu. not the J70, which is clearly a specialized urban/mountain combat unit (and is fantastic at the job, incidentally), but the standard G60 model.

My initial opinion of it was favorable. It has meaningful weapons of at least two damage types, so it doesn't particularly care about variant armor like Reflective/Reactive/etc. I like this a lot. 4/6/4 movement is also fast enough to outmaneuver the typical steiner player, getting behind them and outputting decent damage. It does all this while still having a ton left over for TAG, which I consider a bonus (I don't use Semi-Guided LRMs much, but appreciate that many of us do and am glad the Anzu carries TAG as a result). All told, it's a decent equivalent to the Tempest in this matchup and outright superior to said TMP in campaign style play where pilot survival matters. Add in some awesome art and you have a machine I want to love... and for a short time, did love.

However, every time I have fielded it against the Klingon Empire Wolf Empire, it gets absolutely crushed. I'm not expecting a 60 ton pure IS-tech 4/6/4 gun platform to beat clan mechs, that's not realistic. I'm having trouble getting it to put up a meaningful fight against them, though. I struggle to get into effective gun range since clan mechs are so much faster than steiner ones, and the Anzu's best combat weapons max out at 18 hexes following the usual 6-12-18 range bands. In a few matches, I had both main guns disable themselves for the entire game; the UAC jammed and the LPPC (with capacitor) melted. I was left with the odd feeling that I would have been better off fielding an Anvil or even an oldtech Thunderbolt. This is after a good dozen or so tries to get good use out of it against one of our most common opponents.

I've gone from loving the Anzu G60 to despising it as a result, and this seems odd since a lot of us clearly love the Mech and even feature it as our user image.

Someone please explain to me how you get good results with this thing in realistic conditions against clan opponents. I don't mean 'how the Anzu solos a clan mech', that's not a fair metric, but I do mean "how do you get your BV's worth out of it?" and would love to hear of better success with it in current-era play against clan opponents.

[Colt Ward]

I think the question will come down to what you are teaming it up with?  And how much you fall back on the Ultra mode.

[GespenstM]

A mix of things, usually in 4 to 8 mech teams. Most common allies include things like the Avalanche (LRMs plus ERML or the LPPC plus TBolt Missile config typically), Mad Cat Mk. IV, Thunderbolt 10M, Orion 2M, Griffin 3M, and so on. Most of them have the range to meaningfully engage the wolf mechs (usually things like warwolf, mad cat original model, various Mechs rocking Hyper Assault Gauss, and so on), but the 6-12-18 range band on the Anzu has hurt.

The TDR-10M has been struggling for the same reason, though its better armor and use of a Snubnose PPC has made it slightly less bad. That said, it's still starting to fall behind and as I expect Reflective Armor to become more common I find its almost all-energy loadout to be of concern; it's why I've had such a keen interest in the Anzu with the Anzu's more balanced weapon loadout.

As for the Ultra part of the AC... I virtually never use it unless I have an extremely good BTH (6s or so), as the stupid thing jams for me almost every game I use it in. The only other time I go to Ultra mode is if the Anzu is about to die anyway.

Edit: Have also teamed it up with Wraiths and Bloodhounds on the lighter end of things, in hopes of driving enemies toward the Anzu. Only modestly successful.

[Weirdo]

Your rolling of 2s seems to be far in excess of the statistical average. My advice is to melt your dice, they are hobbling you.

I'm serious. Dice that roll 2s that often are not balanced. For all intents and purposes, they are loaded.

[GespenstM]

I can't melt Megamek. I've tried. Reinstalled Java and Megamek, behavior continues. I mean, Kojak has witnessed some of this stuff happening to my Anzus; I'm not even making it up.

[Colt Ward]

I have only used the RAC version on TT (RAC jammed on Needs 5, sigh) and was faced with a Ice Ferret D that kept trying to race in behind me . . .

Honestly, I am not sure it sounds like its not just jinxed for you- I never run the Timberwolf A (you might have been on the servers when it has), the SSRM ammo always gets hit early on by TAC or that torso just gets beat on.  With having lighter or faster long range units in your force, its not like it stands out as the weak or most dangerous unit- say you were putting it with 3 Stalker IIs or as lance leader for UrbanMechs.

[Weirdo]

How about not actually using a mech you hate that much? Not all mechs work for all players, and at this point every single person on this forum is intimately aware of how bad a match the G60 is with you. We genuinely don't need to be reminded of it constantly.

[GespenstM]

How about not actually using a mech you hate that much?

Because I'm trying to see where this is going awry. Colt's replies have been useful.

and at this point every single person on this forum

Stop exaggerating.

Edit: Actually, let's revisit the 'when are you using Ultra' thing. Maybe I'm playing the odds wrong. Has anyone gone through the Ultra AC math to figure out when you should be using it in which mode? I'd love to hear about this if so.

Edit 2, responding to Kidd below so I don't multi-post so close together: It's not even a "love to hate", this is a "want to love it again" deal. The J70 I'm already sold on, it's genuinely good at being a mountain combat unit and well above average in urban combat against assault mechs. The G60 however I need to improve with, since it's clear this thing is meant to be a main-issue heavy that facilitates major parts of our play style.

[Kidd]

Well, I guess we all have Mechs we love to hate.

But that's the thing about the Anzu. Unlike say a PPC-ML bracket-boat like the Warhammer (for example) that delivers damage in fixed packets, you live or die by that Ultra AC, Ultra Light PPC and LRM-10, the latter which you have to figure on outputting a regular 6 points on average. The only other thing you've got is an ERML.

Roll badly and the UAC and PPC are gone for good, never to return. What do the engineers call it? "Points of failure". You have two on that Mech affecting 1/2 to 2/3 of your firepower, and hardly any backup guns.

That's why *I* don't run the Anzu G60. if I did I'd rip out the UAC and TAG for an LBX and another LPPC.

[GespenstM]

Well, let's talk about that. Has anyone run the math on Ultra AC use, finding out what the optimal ways to fire it in which mode are? Who knows, maybe improving efficiency in its use will be enough to compensate for the occasional jam. We know the optimal uses for RAC/5s and RAC/2s based on math, so I'm hoping similar math was done for the Ultras.

[Kidd]

Well, let's talk about that. Has anyone run the math

Well, how long is a typical match, and how often in a match do you fire the UAC and LPPC? An example of how probabilities may add up for you:

A match is 20 turns. You fire the UAC on Ultra half the time, ie for 10 turns out of 20, and you alternately charge and fire the LPPC+Cap constantly, ie fired 10 turns out of 20. Probability dictates that you will experience one weapon jam during the game, either the Ultra or the LPPC.

Okay so maybe your matches aren't that long or you don't fire that much. Even if your firing pattern is half that, you're jamming at least one weapon every other game and that can really sink your perceptions of that Mech. I play enough JM7-Fs and RFL-8Ds that I know how having two jammable weapons on one Mech (or Davion companies bearing multiple RACs) feels like.... but Rotaries are at least clearable.

And that's assuming you play enough games to start experiencing the probability curve, which is something like 30 to 300 twenty-turn games (sorry my statistics is shit) whereas you could just be experiencing a brief spate of really extreme-case numbers (like my n00b friend who won a Settlers of Cataan game last Saturday on 2s and 12s...)

[GespenstM]

Those are true, but not quite what I'm looking at. I'm more curious if anyone has done the math to show the right ways to use the Ultra and/or Capacitor Charge modes to get the proper use out of them regardless of jamming. Rather, "by the time they jam/melt they have done enough good that it's okay that they're not working now."

[nckestrel]

RACs don't have a "jammed until end of game" condition.  It's one turn to unjam.  So length of game doesn't matter, the same pattern applies.

Ultras jam until the end of game.  Therefore you need to know how long a game is in order to do the math.
We can do the math of how long it will take an ultra to jam.  We can't do the math on how many turns you will then not have the ultra ac able to fire without knowing how long the game is.

Hmm. I guess we can do the math with X amount of ammo.  Then we would have an end limit, assuming the ammo amount is one that you would normally run of ammo with.  So with 10 rounds, how often should you double-tap.  Hmm.  It's going to depend on target numbers isn't it?

[Kidd]

RACs don't have a "jammed until end of game" condition.

I did mention that...

We can do the math of how long it will take an ultra to jam.  We can't do the math on how many turns you will then not have the ultra ac able to fire without knowing how long the game is.
...
It's going to depend on target numbers isn't it?

1 in 37 rounds, probabilistically. The potential loss is then dictated by how much longer the Anzu is expected to survive.

On a G60 blessed with an abundance of ammunition, we can take ammo out of the picture, thankfully. That leaves us with 3 factors in play - THN, jam probability, and potential damage lost from a jammed weapon for the rest of the Mech's expected lifespan.

It'll take some time to work out the risk-reward, but in principle this means - double-tap when the THNs are low and when the end is near (for the Anzu).... which is kind of obvious really.