Author Topic: What data can be gathered off slavaged electronics?  (Read 12095 times)

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: What data can be gathered off slavaged electronics?
« Reply #90 on: 14 October 2019, 08:05:07 »
I don't recognize the "cigar order" reference.
  It refers to "Special Orders 191" written by General Lee during the Civil War, a copy of which was found by Union troops. The order entailed general movement of Confederate units and the data subsequently resulted in union victories in the battles of Antietam and South Mountain. The orders were found wrapped around an envelope containing three cigars. It is interesting to note that General McClellan, in his characteristic caution, believed it to be a trap, and failed to take full advantage of the information, even though Lee's offensive was stopped in the battle of Antietam.

Special Orders 191:

Quote
Special Orders, No. 191
Hdqrs. Army of Northern Virginia
September 9, 1862

The citizens of Fredericktown being unwilling while overrun by members of this army, to open their stores, to give them confidence, and to secure to officers and men purchasing supplies for benefit of this command, all officers and men of this army are strictly prohibited from visiting Fredericktown except on business, in which cases they will bear evidence of this in writing from division commanders. The provost-marshal in Fredericktown will see that his guard rigidly enforces this order.

Major Taylor will proceed to Leesburg, Virginia, and arrange for transportation of the sick and those unable to walk to Winchester, securing the transportation of the country for this purpose. The route between this and Culpepper Court-House east of the mountains being unsafe, will no longer be traveled. Those on the way to this army already across the river will move up promptly; all others will proceed to Winchester collectively and under command of officers, at which point, being the general depot of this army, its movements will be known and instructions given by commanding officer regulating further movements.

The army will resume its march tomorrow, taking the Hagerstown road. General Jackson's command will form the advance, and, after passing Middletown, with such portion as he may select, take the route toward Sharpsburg, cross the Potomac at the most convenient point, and by Friday morning take possession of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad, capture such of them as may be at Martinsburg, and intercept such as may attempt to escape from Harpers Ferry.

General Longstreet's command will pursue the same road as far as Boonsborough, where it will halt, with reserve, supply, and baggage trains of the army.

General McLaws, with his own division and that of General R. H. Anderson, will follow General Longstreet. On reaching Middletown will take the route to Harpers Ferry, and by Friday morning possess himself of the Maryland Heights and endeavor to capture the enemy at Harpers Ferry and vicinity.

General Walker, with his division, after accomplishing the object in which he is now engaged, will cross the Potomac at Cheek's Ford, ascend its right bank to Lovettsville, take possession of Loudoun Heights, if practicable, by Friday morning, Key's Ford on his left, and the road between the end of the mountain and the Potomac on his right. He will, as far as practicable, cooperate with General McLaws and Jackson, and intercept retreat of the enemy.

General D. H. Hill's division will form the rear guard of the army, pursuing the road taken by the main body. The reserve artillery, ordnance, and supply trains, &c., will precede General Hill.

General Stuart will detach a squadron of cavalry to accompany the commands of Generals Longstreet, Jackson, and McLaws, and, with the main body of the cavalry, will cover the route of the army, bringing up all stragglers that may have been left behind.
The commands of Generals Jackson, McLaws, and Walker, after accomplishing the objects for which they have been detached, will join the main body of the army at Boonsborough or Hagerstown.

Each regiment on the march will habitually carry its axes in the regimental ordnance—wagons, for use of the men at their encampments, to procure wood &c.

By command of General R. E. Lee
R.H. Chilton, Assistant Adjutant General
« Last Edit: 14 October 2019, 08:08:09 by Mohammed As`Zaman Bey »

Colt Ward

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Re: What data can be gathered off slavaged electronics?
« Reply #91 on: 14 October 2019, 09:15:56 »
What I have heard about it was that the orders were specifically found because the average grunts inspecting what they found in the wake of a Confederate movement felt/found the cigars first and seeing the writing passed them on to someone who was literate.

The orders were put around the cigars, presumably, b/c the courier valued both- yet still managed to lose them!  IF they had not been wrapped around the cigars, its unlikely they would have been noticed by the grunt (instead maybe collected for butt wipe) but due to the value of the cigars it signaled the writing had value.

I mention the memory stick b/c every fricking butterbar at the time, a bit over 10 years ago, were using them for EVERYTHING.  They were the vector for a really bad virus that got into DoD systems in Afghanistan (likely from somewhere from the N or NE) and b/c of that they were banned from use . . . really gimped the butterbars, who were sharing Power Points all over the place.
Colt Ward
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Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: What data can be gathered off slavaged electronics?
« Reply #92 on: 14 October 2019, 11:03:32 »
I mention the memory stick b/c every fricking butterbar at the time, a bit over 10 years ago, were using them for EVERYTHING.  They were the vector for a really bad virus that got into DoD systems in Afghanistan (likely from somewhere from the N or NE) and b/c of that they were banned from use . . . really gimped the butterbars, who were sharing Power Points all over the place.
  Sometimes security gaps are systemic. I retired from the FAA after 35 years. I consider of of the FAA's major failures is its catering to the Air Traffic Controllers' union (I had been a member from its conception) because the union convinced the FAA to give retired controllers, as well as failed developmentals (trainees) the first shot at any and all job openings, prior to the openings being published. The result of this practice has been people with minimal training working as programmers, IT, maintenance, etc.

  While the FAA has always displayed a mania for security, even to the point that all data lines were parallel phone lines, installed at great expense. Despite all of their theories of security, it has been my experience that most of the people in upper management looked at computers as mere word processors and overpriced typewriters. In practice, the FAA has an inordinate paranoia of the internet, and discourages employees from using FAA computers online.

  The above being said, back in the day of 3.5 disks, I was trying out a demo file management program and found a text file labelled "P@sswords" and opened it. It contained the computer access passwords of every employee in the facility. Fortunately, I wasn't a malevolent hacker at the time, but this is just one example of systemic practice...

  I used to write training material for the facility, and when I wanted to meet a deadline, I would take my work home to complete. The only time I have ever had a computer virus was when one was discovered on a MS Word file on my thumb drive. Literally, every computer in the facility was infected and the IT people were clueless, until I pointed it out.

  In 2009, I was on shift when the FAA comm system experienced a nation-wide outage that lasted several hours. Needless to say, there has been no explanation for the outage, and its effects minimized as a "glitch". For hours, we were at the phones, handwriting flight plans, weather data and other messages, until I took the time to take a break and check out the internet. By odd coincidence, I found an internet mirror site operated by the US Air Force, which contained ALL of the data we had been handwriting. I quickly put the word out and we soon got ahead of the game. I got a whole, letter of appreciation for that day, and months later, much to my consternation, the mirror site was taken down. 

  Back when our computers were using Windows 7, the primary communications program we used was written in-house by the FAA, USING Windows 3.1, because the FAA didn't have to pay Microsoft any fees for using an obsolete program. Training was given by the no-talent hack who wrote the program, who was rewarded a week in Hawaii, in order to train us in using a program any child could use, except for the many flaws and restrictions, such as pull-down menus for file templates limited to three lines, even though we used dozens of files. For the template files, which were all text files, the program was unable to edit or print them -Instead, we had to use Notepad, and the programmer would not train anyone for that. Needless to say, I raked him over the coals, and informed him that FAA programmers only work for the FAA because nobody would employ them anywhere else.
 
 

Colt Ward

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Re: What data can be gathered off slavaged electronics?
« Reply #93 on: 14 October 2019, 11:33:40 »
Anyone who knows ANYTHING about security who walks into most 'secured' facilities or accesses 'secure' systems can tell you all sorts of ways around what they find.  Fricking TSA'er back in '06 sees my National Guard 'been there, done that' shirt and starts talking about security procedures with me as I am dropping off my grandmother for her flight home.  I got a run down on a lot of their flags & procedures from the 60+ y/o lady who was inspecting my grandmother's bag.  Every time we go through absolutely useless airport security, I grind my teeth and when the wife hears it she stomps on my foot- shut up, she just wants to get through this right now.  For example, once through the screening at a airport, we went to a restaurant to get a bite & wait for the flight . . . we were served with metal utensils and real glasses.

My wife wonders why I hate wi-fi & mobile data, running lines in the house and shutting off data on the cell phone (there is a reason you can no longer remove your battery) unless absolutely needed (we are not paying for data, why do you turn it off?).

Getting intel is a funny game- you never know what little bit you give away as inconsequential that turns out to be the last piece someone needs to complete the picture.  Its why you try to never let someone know you were looking or learned anything- in intel or recon.  It leads to things like the Coventry/Ultra dilemma where you must decide if the piece of information you gain by whatever means is worth exposing those means after which you must assume the enemy knows how/what you did and so your source is compromised.  Additionally, practical use of information has a very finite shelf life as mentioned previously most units and groups will change their codes/frequencies/encryption at regular short intervals- basically they figure out a lifetime for it, in the previous examples we used 24 hours- but even old information can be used to improve your processes .  You can build up a profile on the opposing units.  Heck, I remember articles in 2008 analyzing the speaking patterns of President Obama and what they could tell our adversaries.
Colt Ward
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Orin J.

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Re: What data can be gathered off slavaged electronics?
« Reply #94 on: 14 October 2019, 11:34:03 »
ah yes, rule one of information security: if compromising security will streamline work for the organization, the security will be compromised when- and wherever said compromise can be kept out of sight of those charged with maintaining security.

(there is a reason you can no longer remove your battery)
The reason for that is actually cost. They can fit more battery in for less cost by using an integrated battery that's just a foil sack wired to the system instead of a removable casing that is actually safe to remove. i've picked up the habit of recovering discarded phones (why?) and removing the batteries to keep them from leeching into the soil/groundwater around here and most of them are baggies now.
« Last Edit: 14 October 2019, 11:39:20 by Orin J. »
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Ursus Maior

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Re: What data can be gathered off slavaged electronics?
« Reply #95 on: 14 October 2019, 13:56:15 »
My wife wonders why I hate wi-fi & mobile data, running lines in the house and shutting off data on the cell phone (there is a reason you can no longer remove your battery) unless absolutely needed (we are not paying for data, why do you turn it off?).
Yeah, I do that, too, lines it is for my desktop computer and whenever I'm in a wifi zone, data gets switched off.
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SCC

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Re: What data can be gathered off slavaged electronics?
« Reply #96 on: 21 October 2019, 03:33:59 »
I have to ask... what kind of IDIOT debarks an assault 'mech to "scout on foot"??  ???
It's not that bad, there's a reason people make jokes about Steiner and using assault 'Mechs to scout, and I'm pretty sure that some of the people in this thread can back me up when I say that the primary scout vehicle for the US army is the jeep, it's probably being replaced with drones but.

He made a lot of assumptions...the big error was that he forgot who he was facing, because I will surrender firepower for better scouting.
Only problem I can see with this is that it's very hard to set up a game where scouting can play a major factor

Sir Chaos

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Re: What data can be gathered off slavaged electronics?
« Reply #97 on: 21 October 2019, 08:43:16 »
It's not that bad, there's a reason people make jokes about Steiner and using assault 'Mechs to scout, and I'm pretty sure that some of the people in this thread can back me up when I say that the primary scout vehicle for the US army is the jeep, it's probably being replaced with drones but.

But somehow I don´t think that US Army main battle tank crews do the scouting by jeep in person, while leaving their tank unattended in the process.

Armies have scouts to do the scouting - that´s why they´re called scouts.
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Colt Ward

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Re: What data can be gathered off slavaged electronics?
« Reply #98 on: 21 October 2019, 09:15:52 »
Well . . . commanders, to include armor, will sometimes move ahead of the unit to inspect areas but they are not performing hostile scouting on foot typically.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: What data can be gathered off slavaged electronics?
« Reply #99 on: 21 October 2019, 11:20:02 »
Only problem I can see with this is that it's very hard to set up a game where scouting can play a major factor

  Yes, it takes a lot of work and considerable knowledge, which most players just don't have. My gaming group was founded in the mid-1970s around war gaming, so most of its members usually had a solid grasp of basic military operations, as well as history.
 
  The player who got out of his mech to scout on foot was in the US Army Infantry. Our group has its share of military veterans, mostly US Army, including myself, so we had a wealth of references, as well as people who valued cooperation (oddly, our worst opponents have been active duty officers, usually because each would try to win a battle on his own) and chain of command.

Quote
Well . . . commanders, to include armor, will sometimes move ahead of the unit to inspect areas but they are not performing hostile scouting on foot typically.
  The player lost almost all of his land-based scouts, due to my policy of hunting down scouting assets in order to deny the enemy of reliable intel. The local militia units were mostly small vehicle (jeep) mounted so I would lay mines in probable travel routes and on blind curves in roads and trails. When he used up the militia assets, the player sent out light mechs, which were picked off by my patrols or negated by mines; He then sent UAV-style drones to look for my artillery batteries, which I countered with dedicated ASF cover, even though the Clans on Luthien lost air superiority by the second day. His defense relied a lot on dug-in assets and a star of Clan Chaparrals would be a serious threat to them. The risk I took was that Luthien was surrounded by a massive ring of Long Tom batteries in hard positions, and my batteries were easily inside their reach, so it was a double-blind operation where I could not allow a single enemy unit locate my valuable artillery.

  When the GM told me that the ground crews watched a UAV destroyed by a CNC aero, I ordered the star to relocated to the next designated site. I could hear the player's forehead hit the desk in the next room...he rolled the UAV operator's perception and *snake eyes*...I called out, "That's what happens then they watch porn during shift...bom chikka wah wah!" I figure that's what prompted him to go scout for himself, with a lance of prototype mechs.

Daryk

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Re: What data can be gathered off slavaged electronics?
« Reply #100 on: 21 October 2019, 15:31:57 »
*snip*
the star to relocate
*snip*
Battery, you mean? ???

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: What data can be gathered off slavaged electronics?
« Reply #101 on: 21 October 2019, 18:27:50 »
Battery, you mean? ???
  It was a star of Clan vehicles, two vehicles per point. On paper, it was listed as a star. Potayto, potahto...

Daryk

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Re: What data can be gathered off slavaged electronics?
« Reply #102 on: 21 October 2019, 18:32:26 »
Ah, ok... that makes sense.  Thanks for the clarification!  :thumbsup:

Greatclub

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Re: What data can be gathered off slavaged electronics?
« Reply #103 on: 24 October 2019, 18:59:22 »
  Yes, it takes a lot of work and considerable knowledge, which most players just don't have. My gaming group was founded in the mid-1970s around war gaming, so most of its members usually had a solid grasp of basic military operations, as well as history.
 

I'd be interested in what chaos campaign scenarios written by you would look like, the objective and complications for each side, and what bonus/malus they'd give in subsequent scenarios.

Recon
Scout
Screen
Interdict
scout-hunting
Recon-in-force
harry
skirmish
Raid
Objective Raid
convoy escort


Hell, it would not surprise me if I didn't even know the proper military definition of half of what I just listed.
« Last Edit: 26 October 2019, 22:56:29 by Greatclub »

DOC_Agren

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Re: What data can be gathered off slavaged electronics?
« Reply #104 on: 28 October 2019, 03:55:12 »
Or a butterbar downloaded a upcoming Op Plan on a memory stick with their porn & pirated movies.

Eh, the last one is more likely.

No.. porn never... 8) ;D  really someone needs to provide  secure porn

You'd be somebody interesting to play against... it's a shame we're thousands of miles apart...
I have to agree with you on Mohammed As`Zaman Bey
« Last Edit: 28 October 2019, 04:02:52 by DOC_Agren »
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