Author Topic: Clan Protectorate  (Read 227246 times)

Colt Ward

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1350 on: 29 October 2024, 13:16:38 »
His Firestarter was demolished in Hunting Season.  RecGuides had him step into a Firestorm, sort of an upgrade- bit more survivable.
Colt Ward
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Spirit Cat Refugee

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1351 on: 29 October 2024, 14:05:38 »
His Firestarter was demolished in Hunting Season.  RecGuides had him step into a Firestorm, sort of an upgrade- bit more survivable.

Which Rec Guide did that?
Clan Protectorate

Colt Ward

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1352 on: 29 October 2024, 14:25:34 »
RecGuide 13, would have been easy to look up.  Discussion was here about why he went back to a Firestarter when the RecGuides came out.  The Shadow Hawk IIc was at least more survivable.

I do wonder if we will ever see that Fox/Wolf 50t Omni.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Spirit Cat Refugee

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1353 on: 29 October 2024, 14:57:59 »
RecGuide 13, would have been easy to look up.  Discussion was here about why he went back to a Firestarter when the RecGuides came out.  The Shadow Hawk IIc was at least more survivable.

I do wonder if we will ever see that Fox/Wolf 50t Omni.

I'm looking at RC13 right now and it doesn't mention Rikkard at all in the Firestorm entry.
Clan Protectorate

Colt Ward

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1354 on: 29 October 2024, 15:45:06 »
Then maybe it was the Firestarter, I would swear it was a discussion here a few pages back.  His Firestarter which I assume is the named MWDA mech is blown to slagged debris.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."


Rainbow 6

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1356 on: 03 November 2024, 08:54:20 »
Sounds interesting.

Spirit Cat Refugee

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1357 on: 10 November 2024, 13:44:49 »
So with "Letter of the Law" released, we know a little more about the Clan Protectorate government and military.

There is some form of Clan Council in place, which seemingly has both Spirit Cat and Sea Fox warriors present in deliberations.

I wonder if the Spirit Cats maintain their own Clan council as well for internal matters, or if they see the Clan Protectorate and Spirit Cat Clan as one in the same. Man, I really wish we could get a sourcebook to explain all this.
Clan Protectorate

Geg

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1358 on: 10 November 2024, 17:55:06 »
The book clearly paints the picture of the Protectorate being setup as a hybrid society. Beta Strike Cluster is operating not under Clan Law, Freeborn Mechwarriors expected to eventually take over the Star Commander and Star Captain roles.  All while the Sea Foxes are still Sea Foxes.  We also clearly still have Sea Foxes, Spirit Cats, and Nova Cats as separate minority groups living in the state.  The whole thing sorta feels like a Clan version of the Republic under the FWL.

I would have spoilered this, but the tags seam to be gone.
« Last Edit: 10 November 2024, 18:03:14 by Geg »

Spirit Cat Refugee

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1359 on: 11 November 2024, 12:52:41 »
The book clearly paints the picture of the Protectorate being setup as a hybrid society. Beta Strike Cluster is operating not under Clan Law, Freeborn Mechwarriors expected to eventually take over the Star Commander and Star Captain roles.  All while the Sea Foxes are still Sea Foxes.  We also clearly still have Sea Foxes, Spirit Cats, and Nova Cats as separate minority groups living in the state.  The whole thing sorta feels like a Clan version of the Republic under the FWL.

I would have spoilered this, but the tags seam to be gone.

Unfortunately Letter of the Law doesn't really go into Clan Protectorate society, just its military. Are the Nova Cats living in their own separate neighborhoods from the Spirit Cats? Are they trying to maintain their own separate civilian castes? They're clearly militarily taking order from Rikkard Nova Cat, since his pilot card in the kickstarter says the Nova Cats respect him.

Or are the Nova Cats integrated with the Spirit Cats but just wary of them and keep to themselves?

I really hope Randall Bill's novel delves into this.
Clan Protectorate

Colt Ward

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1360 on: 11 November 2024, 14:17:39 »
While it may not be sourcebook level, it does tell us a few key things-

1)  No longer just Rikkard's cult of personality running the show

2)  Sea Fox contributed warriors are not absolute dregs.  Was the Star Colonel on the downside of her career b/c ageism?  Possibly.  She could have also been selected b/c of the known Cat acceptance of older warriors.  The Star Commander POV could be considered a ristar.

3)  The Protectorate has a Council LIKE a Clan Council but has some major differences- unBlooded participate (Rikard) but must have higher rank even voting, both Fox & Cat warriors are involved, freeborns can participate if sponsored by a warrior, freeborns can observe w/o a sponsor (?), and finally- no Khan or SaKhan running the Council though a loremaster has been set.

4)  Regularly meet to handle Protectorate business w/o being called as needed
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

cmerwin

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1361 on: 11 November 2024, 16:49:06 »
While it may not be sourcebook level, it does tell us a few key things-

1)  No longer just Rikkard's cult of personality running the show

2)  Sea Fox contributed warriors are not absolute dregs.  Was the Star Colonel on the downside of her career b/c ageism?  Possibly.  She could have also been selected b/c of the known Cat acceptance of older warriors.  The Star Commander POV could be considered a ristar.

3)  The Protectorate has a Council LIKE a Clan Council but has some major differences- unBlooded participate (Rikard) but must have higher rank even voting, both Fox & Cat warriors are involved, freeborns can participate if sponsored by a warrior, freeborns can observe w/o a sponsor (?), and finally- no Khan or SaKhan running the Council though a loremaster has been set.

4)  Regularly meet to handle Protectorate business w/o being called as needed
True, although it did seem like Rikkard was instrumental in charting a "third" way.

It was noticeable that none of the Cats nor Sea Foxes - unless I missed something - were Blooded. The trueborns were aware of their bloodhouses, but I don't recall seeing a single Bloodnamed warrior.

The current relationship between the Spirit and the Nova Cats was unclear to me and similarly confusing was everyone acting as if any of the Cats could/must just go to Alaric and swear fealty according to Clan law - as if the Nova Cat (and with it the Spirit Cat) Abjuration had never happened.

The consistent hammering home that the Protectorate is a hybrid society - and a relatively well functioning one - of Clan and IS, was noticeable (and one I liked).

I agree with @Spirit Cat Refugee, I really would love to see sourcebook material clearing this up.
« Last Edit: 11 November 2024, 22:28:51 by cmerwin »
"But the nova cat paced steadily on,
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its heart and mind devoted to
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-- The Remembrance (Nova Cat), 50.5.26-32.


Alan Grant

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1362 on: 12 November 2024, 06:44:08 »
I haven't read the book, just reacting to some of what you all are saying about what it says and most specifically the point about the Cats being abjured.

The Wolves-in-Exile were also abjured, but were welcomed back into the fold during the ilClan Trial. And look what happened with the Smoke Jaguars. Also the remaining Falcons could have easily been absorbed into the Wolves as isorla but weren't.

If there were a sourcebook that covered the Protectorate, I'm guessing what it would tell us is that Clanners all over are looking at these recent events and thinking this is a new era. This ilClan is willing to do things differently. To turn the page and start something anew. Abjured Clan, destroyed Clan. All past precedents and legal actions by the Grand Council or Council of Seven aren't necessarily the law of the Clans anymore. At least in the eyes of the government now ruling Terra, led by Alaric.

The Wolves alive today have a lot more reason to hate the Falcons than they do the Cats, and yet Alaric made a place for them and preserve them as a Clan. Sought to mend the wounds and look past the history.

I'm guessing the mood is one of "all things are possible now, we aren't necessarily restricted by historical judgements."

That's the only way it makes sense to me. It isn't necessarily what I would have assumed would happen within the Protectorate. But I can see how/why the Cats within the Protectorate might land on that viewpoint.

Keep in mind too, we're talking about the Cats. Insert appropriate "one of our people had a vision that could be interpreted to mean we should join the ilClan" and boom, it's done, in no time flat that becomes the majority viewpoint with people clamoring to do it.

No one else does historical pivots like the Cats. They have demonstrated a willingness to upend their entire society because they've decided that's their path now.

Metallgewitter

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1363 on: 12 November 2024, 07:23:13 »
The main problem in this case though is that they already pledged their support to the Free Worlds League who graciously have given them shelter on one of their ancestral planets (never mind that the Cats took the planet themselves). The Falcons on Terra had no choice as they were clearly in the minority. Plus the Wolves are actually badly bruised so they are desperate to take whatever they can get. To me it's desperation clad in pragmatism. Of course discarding the Dragoons runs counter to that. And in effect has cost Alaric already more then he probably anticipated.
That what does not kill us has made it's last mistake!

We are eternal! We are etheral! We will fight you until the skies fall and the heavens burn!

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Alan Grant

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1364 on: 12 November 2024, 08:00:57 »
The main problem in this case though is that they already pledged their support to the Free Worlds League who graciously have given them shelter on one of their ancestral planets (never mind that the Cats took the planet themselves). The Falcons on Terra had no choice as they were clearly in the minority. Plus the Wolves are actually badly bruised so they are desperate to take whatever they can get. To me it's desperation clad in pragmatism. Of course discarding the Dragoons runs counter to that. And in effect has cost Alaric already more then he probably anticipated.

I think we all recognize that. Yet it wouldn't be the first time Nova Cats said peace out and left, took drastic action based on a half-baked idea of a new path. Complete with a lot of hurt feelings, turning their back on someone, and doing a lot of self-harm.

Not saying that's definitely what's going to happen. Just seems like that's on the table as a possibility.

cmerwin

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1365 on: 12 November 2024, 10:19:56 »
I think we all recognize that. Yet it wouldn't be the first time Nova Cats said peace out and left, took drastic action based on a half-baked idea of a new path. Complete with a lot of hurt feelings, turning their back on someone, and doing a lot of self-harm.


Wow. That...that...that's not wrong.

TBF, the Nova Cats joining the Second Star League may have been half-baked, but it was baked for a LONG time...
"But the nova cat paced steadily on,
Undisturbed by the petty battles...
its heart and mind devoted to
The Ways of Seeing, devoted to a more perfect life.”
-- The Remembrance (Nova Cat), 50.5.26-32.


Alan Grant

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1366 on: 12 November 2024, 11:04:49 »
Ahh but maybe I wasn't talking about that one. Maybe I was talking about the Nova Cat defections to the Republic after the Jihad that left their brethren back in the Combine in a weakened and depleted state that made them especially vulnerable to the Ghost Bears in a war and to a subsequent takeover, lockdown and complete domination by the Combine.

Or maybe I was indeed talking about the defection to the Second Star League..... all those poor Cats practically left to die in the Homeworlds with no alert about what the Clan was about to do and no warning that the other Clans were about to unleash hell upon them...

Or Option C, all of the above.

I think I made my point. There's a pattern here. I genuinely hope they don't do that again. But there's definitely an established pattern. It wouldn't be THAT out of character for them to undo all of their hard work, break their oaths and chart a completely new path based on the universe shaking events of this new era.

However I think there is enough cat love (and a feeling among the fans and some writers that the Cats have already experienced rock bottom and deserve better now) that I'm actually optimistic that they won't engage in too much of this kind of thing now.... maybe...
« Last Edit: 12 November 2024, 11:13:31 by Alan Grant »

Metallgewitter

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1367 on: 13 November 2024, 07:41:37 »
Somehow I think a complete shift of the Cats sound rather far fetched. The spirit Cats so far have been described as hating the Wolves with a passion and they also fought (and lost) a trial to help the wolf Empire. For the foxes it was more of a business opportunity (taking all of the Empire's HPG's for just a bit of fighting) but the question will be how this action is seen now that the League leadership has decided to refuse the Foxes deal and go to all out war. Might trigger either a sundering of the Clan Protectorate (Cats vs Foxes) or a new war within the entire League. Poor Cats just like to jump from one laserpointer called disaster to the next it seems
That what does not kill us has made it's last mistake!

We are eternal! We are etheral! We will fight you until the skies fall and the heavens burn!

Remember: retreat hell!

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1368 on: 13 November 2024, 07:47:00 »
Clan Disaster Cat.  I like that.

Istal_Devalis

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1369 on: 13 November 2024, 09:50:03 »
If it's all good to everyone else, I'd like it if they could pick someone else to hold the idiot ball for once. Thank you.

cmerwin

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1370 on: 13 November 2024, 10:40:08 »
If it's all good to everyone else, I'd like it if they could pick someone else to hold the idiot ball for once. Thank you.
Seconded.
"But the nova cat paced steadily on,
Undisturbed by the petty battles...
its heart and mind devoted to
The Ways of Seeing, devoted to a more perfect life.”
-- The Remembrance (Nova Cat), 50.5.26-32.


Alan Grant

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1371 on: 13 November 2024, 14:50:04 »
laserpointed called disaster....Clan disaster cat...idiot ball.

I have to admit, these sound hilarious.

Maybe if we cast enough ridiculous words around we can trigger an enchantment that will see things go in a favorable way. Roast the Nova Cats to save the Nova Cats...


Geg

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1372 on: 13 November 2024, 15:03:59 »
The main problem in this case though is that they already pledged their support to the Free Worlds League who graciously have given them shelter on one of their ancestral planets (never mind that the Cats took the planet themselves). The Falcons on Terra had no choice as they were clearly in the minority. Plus the Wolves are actually badly bruised so they are desperate to take whatever they can get. To me it's desperation clad in pragmatism. Of course discarding the Dragoons runs counter to that. And in effect has cost Alaric already more then he probably anticipated.

Knowing clanners, and honor codes.  Having FWL troops on Marik as an implied threat is probably doing more to undermine loyalty to the league than keep it.  While at the same time.  I think the loyalty to the league is based more on uncertainty:
  • Will Alaric Accept a non-Clan Clan?
  • Will Alaric accept a abjured / Dead Clan?
  • Will Alaric accept free-born warriors?
  • Is the ilClan strong enough to survive and thrive?

If Alaric showed up and said:  Yeah you guys are cool!  Want to join my 3rd League?  Me, my League and my Empire have your backs if the FWL isn't cool about this.  I don't think there would be any hesitation about joining.  Even without knowing what Alaric did to the Bears, the uncertainty about acceptance has to be a strong pull towards keeping the Protectorate in the Leagues orbit.

I read Rikkard's primary motivator is the safety and survival of the pure Nova Cat, as realized in the Spirit Cats.  Right now that is the League as demonstrated by Jessica of Marik.  If the Wolves were powerful that might change.  Now, given that the theme of IKEO being... "What if somebody founded a Star League and Nobody came."   I don't see that calculus changing, or at least completely changing.

Metallgewitter

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1373 on: 13 November 2024, 15:24:39 »
I guess the main issue will be if Alaric can defend his Empire. After all what good is a leader when he losses what he has conquered (especially for a Clanner) He already paid for scorning the Dragoons and now at least the League has a huge opportunity to retake everything nearly uncontested. And who knows what hte Lyrans will do. The Cats might then go "well look at that. The Ilkhan isn't omnipotent after all. We stay here and watch"
That what does not kill us has made it's last mistake!

We are eternal! We are etheral! We will fight you until the skies fall and the heavens burn!

Remember: retreat hell!

cmerwin

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1374 on: 13 November 2024, 15:29:37 »
laserpointed called disaster....Clan disaster cat...idiot ball.

I have to admit, these sound hilarious.

Maybe if we cast enough ridiculous words around we can trigger an enchantment that will see things go in a favorable way. Roast the Nova Cats to save the Nova Cats...
:grin:  Why do I feel like that has already happened? Either way, I'm on board. Seyla.

Knowing clanners, and honor codes.  Having FWL troops on Marik as an implied threat is probably doing more to undermine loyalty to the league than keep it.  While at the same time.  I think the loyalty to the league is based more on uncertainty:
  • Will Alaric Accept a non-Clan Clan?
  • Will Alaric accept a abjured / Dead Clan?
  • Will Alaric accept free-born warriors?
  • Is the ilClan strong enough to survive and thrive? [/l]

I mean, Letter of the Law (and recent source books) kinda sorta gave us answers to three of these. A) Unknown, B) yes (Smoke Jaguar), C) Yes - Wolf Empire has free-born Warriors, D) Seems uncertain at the moment.

But LotL has a lot of Clanner hand-wringing about whether every Clanner isn't *legally* obliged to run to the IlKhan if called, and will Alaric be angry if they do it kinda slowly while trying to play both sides (FWL & Clan) or waiting for the IlClan to fail due to weakness.

That said, IlKhan's Eyes Only will probably give us the inside scoop. If I understand the timeline though, around the same time the FWL is poaching Wolf Empire planets, if rumors and leaked images from the content of IlKhan's Eyes Only are correct, Alaric is going to be too busy dealing with the Capellans to worry about the Protectorate.
« Last Edit: 13 November 2024, 15:53:27 by cmerwin »
"But the nova cat paced steadily on,
Undisturbed by the petty battles...
its heart and mind devoted to
The Ways of Seeing, devoted to a more perfect life.”
-- The Remembrance (Nova Cat), 50.5.26-32.


Metallgewitter

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1375 on: 14 November 2024, 05:43:58 »
That said, IlKhan's Eyes Only will probably give us the inside scoop. If I understand the timeline though, around the same time the FWL is poaching Wolf Empire planets, if rumors and leaked images from the content of IlKhan's Eyes Only are correct, Alaric is going to be too busy dealing with the Capellans to worry about the Protectorate. [/size]

I think IKEO will probably also cover the year right after the capture of Terra unless they gloss it over with "and then everybody bowed to the Khan and it was happy ever after" We know there will be a message send around the entire IS with Alaric gloating "You're mine" which is probably laughed at heavily in most parts of the IS. The more interesting parts will probably be if the book touches on how far the League has come to retaking their old territory and if Marotta Kerensky manages to deliver his message from the Dragoons. Also interesting should be what the Ravens are doing (there have been hints in previous books) and how the 3rd Dominion-Combine war is going as Dominion Divided make it sound like the quick campaign will be anything but quick
That what does not kill us has made it's last mistake!

We are eternal! We are etheral! We will fight you until the skies fall and the heavens burn!

Remember: retreat hell!

cmerwin

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1376 on: 14 November 2024, 09:44:40 »
I think IKEO will probably also cover the year right after the capture of Terra unless they gloss it over with "and then everybody bowed to the Khan and it was happy ever after" We know there will be a message send around the entire IS with Alaric gloating "You're mine" which is probably laughed at heavily in most parts of the IS. The more interesting parts will probably be if the book touches on how far the League has come to retaking their old territory and if Marotta Kerensky manages to deliver his message from the Dragoons. Also interesting should be what the Ravens are doing (there have been hints in previous books) and how the 3rd Dominion-Combine war is going as Dominion Divided make it sound like the quick campaign will be anything but quick
Table of Contents seems to suggest that the Ravens, Smoke Jaguars, and Jade Falcons all have longer entries. Artwork shows the Ravens apparently attacking Liao. There are a couple pages devoted to Sea Fox and the "Remnants", whatever that means. The Dragoons (or Marotta) don't appear to have their own entries, but that doesn't mean they aren't mentioned.

As I understand it, IKEO runs through mid-3152, which is the same timeframe as Redemption Rites, so I'm not sure if we will actually get anything beyond Alaric's 12 June announcement of claiming everything as his and then silence.
"But the nova cat paced steadily on,
Undisturbed by the petty battles...
its heart and mind devoted to
The Ways of Seeing, devoted to a more perfect life.”
-- The Remembrance (Nova Cat), 50.5.26-32.


Church14

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1377 on: 14 November 2024, 11:01:31 »
I think IKEO will probably also cover the year right after the capture of Terra unless they gloss it over with "and then everybody bowed to the Khan and it was happy ever after" We know there will be a message send around the entire IS with Alaric gloating "You're mine" which is probably laughed at heavily in most parts of the IS. The more interesting parts will probably be if the book touches on how far the League has come to retaking their old territory and if Marotta Kerensky manages to deliver his message from the Dragoons. Also interesting should be what the Ravens are doing (there have been hints in previous books) and how the 3rd Dominion-Combine war is going as Dominion Divided make it sound like the quick campaign will be anything but quick

- iKEO should be up to June 3152 (which is what you said).
- I do expect some explanation of why Alaric never reached out to Othar.
- That leaked/teases Table of Contents looks like Ravens get a good chunk of love.
- Marotta is sent after Battle of Geinah, which is in June 3152. So We shouldn't see Alaric blow a gasket over that until whatever follows iKEO. Marotta won't be back in time.
- Third Combine-Dominion war is just starting in mid-3152, so that would fall under a follow-up after iKEO's release.


Table of Contents seems to suggest that the Ravens, Smoke Jaguars, and Jade Falcons all have longer entries. Artwork shows the Ravens apparently attacking Liao. There are a couple pages devoted to Sea Fox and the "Remnants", whatever that means. The Dragoons (or Marotta) don't appear to have their own entries, but that doesn't mean they aren't mentioned.

As I understand it, IKEO runs through mid-3152, which is the same timeframe as Redemption Rites, so I'm not sure if we will actually get anything beyond Alaric's 12 June announcement of claiming everything as his and then silence.
ToC has something about State of the System, so I imagine a quick namecheck of Dragoons and maybe Marotta leaving in a hurry early in iKEO. Not really worth it for iKEO to say anything more since EA covers them.

Metallgewitter

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1378 on: 14 November 2024, 13:00:08 »
So basically every sourcebook ends at more or less the same time spot known as June 3152?And you are right Marotta was send back to Gienah at the end of July 3152. One month into the full assault of the League into the Wolf Empire. This will then most likely become a hot topic in the next book. Too bad. Though to be honest I doubt a say more field Manual-ish book will actually cover such a secret matter except perhaps "Alaric shot a messenger in a fit of rage"
That what does not kill us has made it's last mistake!

We are eternal! We are etheral! We will fight you until the skies fall and the heavens burn!

Remember: retreat hell!

Geg

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Re: Clan Protectorate
« Reply #1379 on: 14 November 2024, 15:21:37 »
Based on the TOC, I think IKEO goes about 6 months further.

More of a guess than facts.  But based on the glimpses of Caph and New Earth, and the end of an Era, we could be seeing just a tiny bit more into the future.