Author Topic: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads  (Read 310513 times)

Alfaryn

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1110 on: 21 September 2021, 22:08:43 »
Thanks for the answers. Looking forward to see the updated documents.

Xotl

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1111 on: 21 September 2021, 22:18:26 »
BMM and TM corrected copies are up.  TM didn't change the version number as I essentially just fixed a typo.

Also added new AGOAC errata to the website.
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Alfaryn

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1112 on: 21 September 2021, 22:31:20 »
There is a minor typo at the top of each page of the AGoAC document - the page numbers are written as "Page X of 5 PRE", instead of just "Page X of 5".

Xotl

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1113 on: 21 September 2021, 22:47:14 »
That's bizarre.  Fixed (thanks).
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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1114 on: 22 September 2021, 03:44:53 »
Thanks for the response Xotl.  The chances of the Swiss Guard doing one point of damage are sufficiently remote I don't think the current rules are broken, honestly (30 Heavy Crossbows could theoretically do 0.60 damage at TW scale, but in addition to a hit, you'd have to roll 11 or 12 on the cluster table, and even that only works until the platoon loses 6 troopers).  On the end of the scale the rule addresses, you're shaving at most 23 points of damage (off a platoon of 30 with Mauser IICs; though anyone using that much cheese will have thrown Bear Hunters in the mix, meaning the savings is less). I suppose going after the five weapons it applies to makes sense, though their extreme damage is due to under barrel grenade launchers rather than anything that would normally grant them the Heavy Burst special.  Curiously, none of the "Compact" grenade launchers used on these weapons are represented canonically as separate weapons (the "Compact" in the grenade launcher list is single shot).

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1115 on: 24 September 2021, 14:32:10 »
Hopalong mentioned in General Discussion that the Swift Wind is shown as being 7.5t in the MUL. TR 3039 has it at 8t, with the BV's matching those in MML - also at 8t. Probably need to change the 7.5t to 8t.

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1116 on: 24 September 2021, 15:33:23 »
I recon that’s true

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FenderSaxbey

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1117 on: 03 October 2021, 13:02:17 »
Whoops. Sorry for my forum faux-pas. Regarding the latest errata post for Alpha Strike: Commander's Edition:

p80, Notation and Tracking of C3 Networks
Add
"A unit may only belong to a single C3 network. While a unit may mount both a C3 Master and a C3 Slave, it may not use both at once. For units so equipped, at the start
of game designate which C3 system is operational."

Doesn't this preclude having company-wide C3? My C3 rules knowledge may be rusty but I thought you need both active in a single unit for one of the extended topologies to work.

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1118 on: 03 October 2021, 13:09:52 »
You can use multiple masters, just not a slave and a master. See the diagram in ASCE or TW

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FenderSaxbey

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1119 on: 03 October 2021, 13:43:35 »
You can use multiple masters, just not a slave and a master. See the diagram in ASCE or TW

Ah, thanks! I got back to my book and see that my C3 knowledge was indeed rusty.

Alfaryn

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1120 on: 04 October 2021, 14:35:01 »
I'm not sure if there is time for the following correction to make it before the newly ordered printing of BattleMech Manual, but in case there is still time to send this correction to the printer, I decided to post it here instead of the errata thread.

The problem is with the third sentence of the erratum for Laser-Reflective Armor (p. 114) on pp. 11 and 17 of the 5.0 PRE errata document for BMM:

Additionally, heat-causing effects are halved (to a minimum of 1 heat point).
It should be (assuming rules for Laser-Reflective Armor on p. 93 of TO:AUE are correct):
Additionally, heat-causing effects are halved (rounded down to a minimum of 1 heat point).
« Last Edit: 04 October 2021, 14:59:07 by Alfaryn »

Xotl

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1121 on: 04 October 2021, 15:45:21 »
Got it in time; thanks for the quick spot.
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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1122 on: 07 October 2021, 12:24:27 »
Quote
Wait - since when did Inner Sphere-based chassis be able to mount Clan-grade CASE with no tonnage or critical space requirement? TM p210 does not allow for this, thus the Atlas C described in the link here violates construction rules. As well as violating common sense - Clan-based mechs have CASE built-in to their frames but IS mechs do not: as a refit of an IS mech it would not magically gain the benefit of advanced Clan manufacturing techniques. Both BoT Supplemental and the RS:3050UU-IS errata are in error. If CASE is to be added it must follow the Inner Sphere construction rules, and that means one of the three heat sinks in the left torso must be lost to provide tonnage and critical space for it.

However, Battle of Twycross sourcebook page 49 describes the Atlas C changes (from AS7-D) as not having CASE of any kind. Thus, the RS:3055UU-IS errata and BoT Supplemental, if they should have CASE, are effectively introducing a second C model - with the Twycross model retroactively becoming C 2 unless errata is to be issued for that product as well to specify addition of CASE. I'm not sure that's the intent. Empyrus's "assumption" exactly matches to what FASA originally wrote 31 years ago. I don't believe his comments should be ignored/struck-through, but restored as valid errata, and the linked RS:3050UU errata is ignored/struck-through instead as its an illegal design.

Per Battle of Twycross, the only C model from that source that mounts CASE should be the Marauder C (page 48)

The TechManual errata regarding this is currently undergoing rewording. It will be published once finalized--however, for transparency's sake, this change was discussed and internally implemented a few months back.

Regarding the Twycross text and original record sheets, the decision was made to supersede them during production of the RecGuide/BoT:Supp products. The "C" variants were adjusted as to no longer be underweight, with certain other small tweaks simultaneously made.

This decision isn't up for debate or modification at this point in time.
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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1123 on: 07 October 2021, 14:11:40 »
I'm gathering from that comment that there will be a zero-ton and zero-critical CASE available to IS-based mechs soon, presumably so long as they mount Clan weaponry. Oh-kay... I wouldn't have kicked that hornet's nest. Instead of two designs (Marauder C and Atlas C, which FASA had explained sufficiently enough 31 years ago in Battle of Twycross sourcebook) we're going to subject hundreds of existing mixed-tech mechs to new rules. :thumbsup:

What's the holdup on that errata? I just checked the publicly-known errata (on website and forum threads) prior to my post to be sure there wasn't something new added to account for it so I made my post with the understanding that the current legal construction rules are violated. I'm not clear why, if the decision was made at least by November 16, 2020 to change construction rules regarding CASE, they still are not shared nearly 11 months later.

Does this ruling affect examples I just identified from TRO:GC that say they mount CASE as well but provide no tonnage or critical space for them? (CTS-6Y-EC) Or "illegally" mount such CASE in the arms? (Devastator DVS-2-EC)

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1124 on: 07 October 2021, 14:28:22 »
I'm gathering from that comment that there will be a zero-ton and zero-critical CASE available to IS-based mechs soon

It's already happened, and is marked as such on the record sheets and in the TRO entry.

Quote
presumably so long as they mount Clan weaponry.

Negative. It's treated as technology just like any other. A unit could only use Clan CASE as its sole piece of Clan hardware, for example.

Quote
What's the holdup on that errata?

It should be published in the near future.

Quote
Does this ruling affect examples I just identified from TRO:GC that say they mount CASE as well but provide no tonnage or critical space for them? (CTS-6Y-EC) Or "illegally" mount such CASE in the arms? (Devastator DVS-2-EC)

Yes.

In addition, torso headings are only listed when CASE is not in a record sheet crit location--put clearly, it's only listed as a header when it's Clan CASE. We are aware that certain sheets might have both a header and a crit location, but this is a limitation of the software used to generate the sheets and isn't something that needs to be remarked on for errata.
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KhanWick

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1125 on: 07 October 2021, 20:08:01 »
Negative. It's treated as technology just like any other. A unit could only use Clan CASE as its sole piece of Clan hardware, for example.
But this is where the explanation falls apart. Clan-grade CASE isn't plug-in technology like a weapon - at least, its never been described as such. Its part of the chassis construction. Its like omnitech. You can't just take a mech, and decide it can now be an omni on the basis that its "cool". Omnimechs are designed from the ground-up to support pod technology. Likewise, Clan-tech mech chassis are specifically designed to support CASE - or at least they incorporate the significant parts of the technology to redirect explosions that erupt in an ammo bin or gauss weapon away from other components and out the side or rear, though not the blow-away panel on the back armor - which is why they get it for free and can mount it in the arms and legs (and head, though I don't know any mech that does this.) I can also buy the idea of factory-level refits that rebuild mechs by stripping them down to chassis and rebuilding them can gain the ability to mount Clan CASE. However, Inner Sphere chassis, and mixed-tech field refits based upon them, are not designed in such a way and have always had to pay for that investment. Maybe by the 3150s Inner Sphere factories finally get around to designing mech chassis with CASE in mind if this rule change is meant to prop up ilClan era technology trickle-down. I could even accept it as early as Civil War or Jihad era as a parallel to IS reverse engineering of omnitech. But you're telling me, that in the year 3050 Clan Jade Falcon salvages a FedCom Atlas built at say, Hesperus II in 3025 or so, and with a chassis not suited to it, can add in CASE at no cost to either tonnage or criticals? This is a dangerous path to walk. Are we about to see any mech be able to adopt Omnipod technology by a similar fashion? Can Clan Endo Steel (or even Inner Sphere) similarly be simply "bolted on" to an existing Inner Sphere standard chassis to give it all the same advantages without having to pay for it in criticals or undergo an expensive rebuild?

In a real-world comparison, its like adding a rollcage to a vehicle not designed with a rollcage frame, and having it weigh nothing or not obstruct the driver in anyway - when it truth it weighs a few hundred pounds, makes getting in and out harder, and may obstruct some of the drivers vision. NASCAR stock cars, some military vehicles, dune buggies - they can get that rollcage functionality for "free" because they were built that way. But if I want to add it to a basic civilian vehicle, I'm going to have to pay for it in weight and space. The rules have always supported the same and Battletech doesn't need to resort to a weightless, formless new technology just to give Inner Sphere mechs the same advantage as a designed-with-CASE-in-mind Clan chassis.

Really, I'm souring on Ray's commitment at Sarna to not make "massive changes" (his words) that turn off long-time players. The only thing I can even think that is even close to this significant of a change to rules is when aerospace fighters were allowed to mount XL engines, but at least that was explained away as ComStar's obfuscation of the facts surrounding Royal division technologies. I can't think of any explanation that gives a massless (read: anti-gravity device) CASE to Inner Sphere-built chassis without completely upsetting the designs of hundreds of mixed-tech mechs going as far back as the early 2800s. And all just to save face on two designs that FASA never said had Clan-grade CASE to start with.


In addition, torso headings are only listed when CASE is not in a record sheet crit location--put clearly, it's only listed as a header when it's Clan CASE. We are aware that certain sheets might have both a header and a crit location, but this is a limitation of the software used to generate the sheets and isn't something that needs to be remarked on for errata.
Does this mean the Excalibur EXC-B2b-EC has both IS and Clan-grade CASE in the Left Torso or is this one of the mechs published in error? Is there no PDF editing software at CGL to fix the mechs that come out wrong by the software before publication? Until dev-level errata says so or these new rules published, there is absolutely no way for players to know which Inner Sphere refits with CASE from either TRO:GC or BoT:Supplemental are valid and which ones aren't.

(Ignoring the obvious fact that Excalibur EC, Cestus EC, and Devastator EC all get this free CASE prior to 2825 when Clan-grade CASE is introduced per ED:GC p6. TRO:GC is just a hot mess of temporal inconsistency and scarcity of EC and C refits beyond the few years following Klondike.)

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1126 on: 07 October 2021, 21:54:14 »
I was under the impression that ALL Clan ammo-based weapons includes CASE as part of their weapon loadout.

And that it was built into said weapon as a countermeasure against accidental explosions. Clan based weapons weigh in at X-amount in tons, but the CASE was pre-built-in...

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1127 on: 07 October 2021, 22:39:40 »
That is never how it has worked.
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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1128 on: 09 October 2021, 19:41:47 »
That is never how it has worked.

Then before CGL goes any further with this new CASE errata, you absolutely and immediately need to provide a workable description of how Clan CASE functions if my explanation isn't it. You are currently publishing units that can only be explained through unscientific principles. If we want magic, we can invest in Shadowrun.

Based strictly on the rules as currently published, any description for CASE needs to do each of the following:
1. Adhere to all explanations for how CASE is strictly described (ferro-fibrous plates that redirect explosions out of a blow-away panel) and functions (ie, even when shutdown)
2. Scientifically explain why Inner Sphere CASE has actual mass and bulk (as all real things do) but why Clan-grade CASE is effectively zero tons and zero critical spaces in construction rules.
3. Explain why Clan mechs (including Battlemechs, not just Omnimechs) can use CASE in any location, but Inner Sphere mechs may only use it in the Torsos.
4. Explain why Clan-grade CASE is either a non-salvageable piece of equipment, or is salvageable but is identical rules-wise to Inner Sphere-grade CASE when installed on Inner Sphere mechs.

A Clan-tech chassis that incorporates CASE principles in its construction satisfies all four conditions. The redirection plates are built into the frame, eliminating the later tonnage and space requirements, while simultaneously providing coverage to all locations. Nor can parts of it be salvaged and reused in other mechs, much in the same fashion that its impossible to strip off segments of endo steel and plug them into your mech to make it lighter. Per rules, the mech must still identify which locations have "functional" CASE (rather than an "inert" CASE) so as to identify which locations have blowout armor panels in order to cover the record sheet requirements and cost factors (the cost for Clan CASE then is basically just for the blowout panel, not the redirection-panels.) Furthermore, the fact that Clan equipment is routinely described as lighter weight and less bulky already provides an explanation for why adding the ferro-fibrous redirection panels to the mech's structure would bring it back into line with Inner Sphere weights (i.e. 10% of total mech for standard, or 5% for Endo Steel.) Inner Sphere-grade CASE remains a plug-in piece of equipment, requiring both mass and volume, with limitations on where it can be installed (Torsos.) CASE II remains plug-in for both groups.

I would certainly welcome any other description of how CASE works that can successfully account for all four points.


"Add-on technology" doesn't. I do not dispute that it is exactly what Inner Sphere CASE is: it has mass (half a ton) and substance (it takes up space). But Clan CASE must be something different for it to be effectively zero tons and zero critical spaces. I'm not saying that the technology is weightless or has no substance: physics says that's impossible. What I'm saying is that the weight and volume has to be accounted for elsewhere. The MechWarrior clearly has mass and takes up space, but they don't count against the mech's weight or critical spaces either because there's a component on the mech (the cockpit) that does account for the added mass and volume of a human body such that neither the rules nor laws of physics are violated. By extension the weight and substance for anything that goes on a mech must be accounted for somewhere. If its external, it can be handled by carrying rules. But if internal, it falls under the domain of construction rules. If Clan CASE were a quarter ton and still took up a critical space, in the same fashion as Clan machine guns to their Inner Sphere counterparts, I'd have no issue with it being add-on technology because it accounts for itself. But if its going to be zero tons and zero criticals, then we need to know where the mass and volume actually go. Its perfectly fine to explain how better construction techniques can cause something to be reduced 50% in weight and/or volume - even more than 50%. But there is no valid explanation for how something can be fully reduced 100% in either. The weight and volume of those ferro-fibrous panels has to go somewhere. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

I remember my group having several discussions about salvaging Clan CASE in the early 1990s, which led to us seeking a higher power who provided the description I now supply. (This "higher power" was someone who either ran tournaments or was an experienced tournament player, I forget which; I wasn't the one who personally knew him. Nowadays we can ask CGL directly by email or forum; but back then, getting a direct answer from FASA was improbable.) At the time I even remember being in support of salvaging plug-in Clan CASE, but upon the explanation given above I realized I was wrong: a plug-in Clan CASE certainly doesn't meet the second or fourth points and has trouble with the third.

This isn't the first time since then that I've seen somebody else make a claim about CASE that fails to meet at least one of the four tenets. Every few years, I feel like this discussion comes up and I have to point out these four facts and burst someone's bubble with why their description doesn't work. I'm not trying to embarrass anyone here. I'm reminding you guys of the rules that have been published for 30 years on the subject and why a simple plug-in description for zero-ton, zero-critical Clan CASE does not fit those rules, does not appeal to common sense, or violates scientific principles.


Clan CASE that is entirely add-on, 'plug-and-fight' type, technology only properly satisfies the first condition, which is the easiest. Now this one is pretty straightforward but I've seen an explanation that Clan CASE incorporates Star League-era Steiner Stadium-style force-fields to explain its apparent lack of weight and bulk, yet force-fields would require online power and would not operate when the mech is shutdown, so that's not a valid alternative. If you find fault that my description doesn't look anything like the image labeled as CASE in canon material, I don't dispute that Inner Sphere-grade CASE might look like that. But in no source where CASE has been described that I checked (TRO:2750, TRO:3050, BTC, BMR, Total Warfare, and TechManual) is CASE explicitly defined as anything like a "device" - its always named as "damage-control technology", which means it could take many different forms, including the one I described. My explanation does not violate the first point on the basis that it doesn't match the image of what one representation of this technology may be. (Frankly, the image itself is rather poor because it doesn't show the ferro-fibrous plates nor the blowout panel. Its basically just the picture of what could easily be a standard ammo bin.) In any event, images have never taken precedence over written descriptions.

For the second point, nothing has yet been offered to explain how anything, CASE or otherwise, can weigh nothing and take up no space on a mech short of being accounted for as a part of another component of the mech. I've also seen it explained that Clan CASE could be part of the armor, but this doesn't explain why Inner Sphere-grade CASE is not, nor does a mech actually require armor in the protected location for CASE to function. (The blow-away panel is certainly part of the armor though, even if none is mounted or its all been destroyed. TROs have long listed mechs with armor types following the form of "Such-and-such Armor with CASE". But the targeting systems also often say "Such-and-such system with Artemis IV FCS", and we know the Artemis units are not installed in the cockpit; it only means the two pieces work together to form a solution. For CASE, the ferro-fibrous redirection panels and the blow-away panel of the armor together comprise the whole, both in my explanation above and canon descriptions.) Engines, cockpits, life support and sensors don't cover the whole mech so they're not viable sources to cover CASE tonnage and volume. Myomer bundles and actuators don't make any sense, and aren't present on non-mechs anyway. Internal structure really is the only suitable component in which to gain any weight and space savings to justify Clan-grade CASE effectively weighing nothing and taking up no additional space later in the construction steps. Any significant piece of technology internal to the mech that doesn't account for itself and is not accounted for by another component is very problematic. If it has no weight it is effectively an anti-gravity device. If it takes up no physical space but somehow surrounds something else, it is a ghost. BattleTech shouldn't need anti-gravity or access to the ethereal plane anymore than it needs time travel or future-sight to explain things.

For the third, some of the TRO:GC refits of Star League chassis violate long-standing rules by mounting CASE in the arms. Rather than fix these mechs to fit the rule, your errata is trying to change the rule to fit the mechs. I can't really deny that CGL has the right to do this. But if Inner Sphere and Clan CASE are the same type of equipment but different mass and volumes, why should a chassis that doesn't allow Inner Sphere-grade CASE in the arms even if the tonnage and critical space were paid for, allow Clan-grade at no cost to tonnage or critical space? This is backwards from common sense but exactly what the new errata is apparently saying. If Clan CASE is effectively just a leaner form of IS Case, what magical property does it possess that allows it to be placed in the arms or legs of Inner Sphere chassis? Is it only because its lighter and less bulky? Pretty weak argument when you've got much heavier multi-ton, and much bulkier multi-critical equipment that can be mounted in arms and legs as well.

For the fourth, the definition of add-on technology demands it to be salvageable equipment but which the Atlas C errata indicates is most certainly not identical. The Atlas could easily lose a heat sink to provide IS-grade CASE without violating this rule, but if you go forward with it then you're subjecting ALL mixed-tech mechs to be able to use salvaged Clan CASE. This is a massive retcon covering 31 years of real-time and 151 years of in-universe time and many dozens of published products. If its not salvageable, why not? Self-destruct mechanisms? (Why not on the weapons then?) Or does it magically disintegrate as soon as barbarian Inner Sphere hands touch it?


So, if you're intent on introducing the new CASE rules, beyond the in-universe ramifications, CGL is in real-world trouble, too. Without going into every single scenario, let's look at one pair of mechs: the Nightstars of Shelly Brubaker and George Holt. Each mounts salvaged Clan Gauss rifles in their arms. Neither mounts IS CASE but there isn't the tonnage or room to allow it. However, by your new rules of how CASE works, salvageable Clan Gauss Rifles effectively come wrapped in a "jacket" of undamaged, salvageable Clan CASE. (Which was previously either unsalvageable, or no different to IS CASE when applied to IS mechs.) Ergo, both mechs should naturally mount Clan CASE. To not do so demands believing that both pilots willing turned down potentially life-saving equipment. That's illogical. Additionally, the technicians would have to spend valuable time removing the CASE jacket from the weapons when they could have just left it in place before mounting it on the Nightstars. That's also illogical. Therefore, to maintain believable storytelling, both of these Nightstars *must* mount the Clan-grade CASE system in their arms and therefore CGL must spend time issuing errata for any product they appear in.

Now, CGL has to commit to reviewing each and every other Inner Sphere faction or mercenary owned mixed-tech mech with a record sheet or Alpha Strike card to determine which ones do and which ones don't have Clan CASE. (Best guess is 150-200 of them.) This is not something players can look at a record sheet and figure out on their own. CGL themselves must dedicate resources to answering questions, issuing errata, and recalculating the BV of each and every affected unit. If CGL is so far behind on ilClan stuff, is it all that wise to spend time doing that? Why would CGL commit to wasting their time (and that that of the players) fixing a mess that didn't exist for 30 years? All over the issue of just five or six mechs that violate the existing rules and are all easily correctable?

What is so wrong with the rule today that it needs to be changed? And why the hell would we ignore a perfectly good explanation that's worked (for those of us that have known about it) for 28 or 29 years for one that requires a huge retcon, illogical conditions, and magical properties? When I say this is the most massive rule change ever implemented, I'm not saying that lightly. All the retcon work aside, introducing magic should NEVER be the answer. Please CGL, do not cross that line. Just leave the rule alone, fix the mechs you've published (or errata'd) that violate it, and save everyone's time to focus on more important issues.

Or, you can explain how else an apparently weightless, volumeless add-in Clan CASE meets the four objectives above without resort to unscientific principles. If you can supply a better explanation than I have, I will happily stand down. If you can't, then you should do what your predecessors did and flip those jumpships over so the sails point in the logical direction. With exception to some faster-than-light technologies and perhaps a few more isolated examples, BattleTech has always been grounded in scientific fact. Any proposed rule that changes something from being scientifically explainable (even if you don't like the explanation) to something that can not has no business being implemented.

Xotl

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1129 on: 09 October 2021, 19:56:21 »
Then before CGL goes any further with this new CASE errata, you absolutely and immediately need to provide a workable description of how Clan CASE functions if my explanation isn't it. You are currently publishing units that can only be explained through unscientific principles. If we want magic, we can invest in Shadowrun.

Let us halt right there.  No elaborate explanation of non-existent 31st-century engineering principles is required to make this game ruling work, because it is a game ruling first and foremost.  While sometimes we make an effort to provide in-game justifications for such, this does not always occur; lore-based explanations are a bonus rather than a necessity, and the ruling stands.

Thank you for your time.  The matter is closed.
« Last Edit: 09 October 2021, 19:57:57 by Xotl »
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Xotl

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1130 on: 11 October 2021, 15:02:11 »
Official errata has been updated on the main site for:

A Game of Armored Combat
Alpha Strike CE
BattleMech Manual
Total Warfare
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Alfaryn

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1131 on: 14 October 2021, 11:23:46 »
The BattleMech Manual errata document linked in the errata section of the main site is labeled as pre-release, both in the page headers, and right beneath the document title on the first page.

On top of it the links to AS:CE, BMM and TW errata documents in their respective errata threads need to be updated, since they still point to the last pre-release versions.

Xotl

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1132 on: 14 October 2021, 12:14:08 »
Will fix, thanks.
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Com Guard Precentor

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1133 on: 15 October 2021, 10:35:13 »
I have a quick question regarding how errata and reprints affect the PDF documents in our CGL Store accounts. Are these PDFs updated when new printings are sent off to the print shops?

Sartris

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1134 on: 15 October 2021, 10:42:23 »
Yes. You should receive an email notification. If not, you can go into your file library and check to see if there is a new file

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Com Guard Precentor

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1135 on: 15 October 2021, 10:48:59 »
Yes. You should receive an email notification. If not, you can go into your file library and check to see if there is a new file

Odd as I haven't received the emails and my files in the CGL store are still the 4th printing for the BMM (current is 5th) and 7th printing for TW (Current is 9th). I'm sorry if this is not the correct thread for this, but is there anyone I can reach out to for assistance with this issue?

Thanks in advance!

Xotl

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1136 on: 15 October 2021, 10:59:07 »
You're up to date.  The issue here is that errata being finalized is just the first step in a new printing getting underway.  The updated book is then sent off to a printer in Lichtenstein or China or wherever when the bosses are ready, where it's then printed, then shipped over here, then distributed.  Sure, the PDF is ready before that, but Catalyst always delays a new PDF for a while after it goes to print, usually to better match up its release with the physical printing arriving from the printer so there's not months separating the two (as that can create confusion amongst buyers).

The end result is that I know of a printing's corrections long before it actually appears anywhere.  I post errata publicly for an upcoming printing as soon as it is finalized, for errata tracking purposes (I don't want reports for different printings to get mixed up), but that can give a false idea as to a book's actual existence.  TW's 8th printing is just showing up in stores.  The 9th doesn't exist yet except as a set of digital proofs on various hard drives; the BMM 5th printing is the same.

The PDFs for the new printings will eventually be updated, rest assured.
« Last Edit: 15 October 2021, 18:09:51 by Xotl »
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Com Guard Precentor

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1137 on: 15 October 2021, 11:02:59 »
Ah I see - Thank you for the confirmation and consequent reduction in anxiety.  ;D

Empyrus

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1138 on: 17 October 2021, 16:04:29 »
Wondering if the Devastator DVS-2-EC from TRO Golden Century has correct battle value?
MUL and MML 0.48 give the BV as 2,699, while SSW 0.7.6 give it as 2844.

Checking BV breakdowns, MML doesn't seem to have explosive penalty for the improved Gauss rifles, and claims ammo total BV is 0 (iGauss ammo is 40 BV per ton). As such, sub-totals for offensive and defensive BVs end up slightly different.

Inclined to believe SSW in this case. Maybe worth double-checking?

GreekFire

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Re: Errata Discussion Thread - Questions HERE, not in Errata Threads
« Reply #1139 on: 18 October 2021, 08:15:42 »
Wondering if the Devastator DVS-2-EC from TRO Golden Century has correct battle value?
MUL and MML 0.48 give the BV as 2,699, while SSW 0.7.6 give it as 2844.

Neither is correct, actually. 2859 would be the correct BV here--the SSW value isn't accounting for Clan CASE.
Fixed!
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