Author Topic: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise  (Read 203080 times)

kato

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #300 on: 02 January 2019, 09:50:03 »
Germany is buying three of those from Lürssen - for its police, not its navy.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #301 on: 02 January 2019, 17:40:31 »
Got keep'em trained.  Republic of Korea launches it's first auxiliary training ship, Hansando.
She a 4,500 ton Training ship, she has single 3inch forward and 40mm cannon aft above what i think is the hanger.
She reported to have anti-missile decoy system.

Aside equipped handle 400 crew and students, she can also act as hospital ship as well.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #302 on: 02 January 2019, 17:48:55 »
400 in that thing?  That sounds more than a little crowded...

kato

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #303 on: 02 January 2019, 19:00:06 »
French training ship slash helicopter cruiser Jeanne d'Arc.



Decommissioned in 2010, being dismantled since ca 2014 - the picture is from then. Current designation is "Hull Q860". Oddly she still carries both her remaining 100mm turrets and the launch containers for her six Exocets, guess the Navy sends those to the scrappers too nowadays.

In peacetime role she'd sail around Africa with 150 cadets onboard - on top of her crew of another 480. In wartime role she'd carry eight heavy helos equipped for ASW, OTH targeting of her Exocets and for heavy interdiction (those things carried 20mm door guns).
« Last Edit: 02 January 2019, 19:02:05 by kato »

Nightlord01

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #304 on: 04 January 2019, 02:43:19 »
Germany is buying three of those from Lürssen - for its police, not its navy.

We don't have oceanic police, but our small vessels cover all constabulary duties.

French training ship slash helicopter cruiser Jeanne d'Arc.



Decommissioned in 2010, being dismantled since ca 2014 - the picture is from then. Current designation is "Hull Q860". Oddly she still carries both her remaining 100mm turrets and the launch containers for her six Exocets, guess the Navy sends those to the scrappers too nowadays.

In peacetime role she'd sail around Africa with 150 cadets onboard - on top of her crew of another 480. In wartime role she'd carry eight heavy helos equipped for ASW, OTH targeting of her Exocets and for heavy interdiction (those things carried 20mm door guns).

The last decade has seen the RAN institute a policy of "training ship" duties for ships close to paying off. Sydney undertook training duties in 2011 IIRC, then Darwin after her, and now Melbourne, with Newcastle coming up next. We no longer keep decommissioned ships as training vessels, just commissioned ships at the end of their lifespan. It's every bit the nightmare decommissioned training ships were, with a greater burden on the crew because they have to conform to readiness and ceremonial requirements.

I am Belch II

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #305 on: 04 January 2019, 07:44:30 »
Sad to see such a historic ship turned into scrap .
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grimlock1

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #306 on: 04 January 2019, 08:20:45 »
French training ship slash helicopter cruiser Jeanne d'Arc.



Decommissioned in 2010, being dismantled since ca 2014 - the picture is from then. Current designation is "Hull Q860". Oddly she still carries both her remaining 100mm turrets and the launch containers for her six Exocets, guess the Navy sends those to the scrappers too nowadays.

In peacetime role she'd sail around Africa with 150 cadets onboard - on top of her crew of another 480. In wartime role she'd carry eight heavy helos equipped for ASW, OTH targeting of her Exocets and for heavy interdiction (those things carried 20mm door guns).
Which helos did she carry?
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kato

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #307 on: 04 January 2019, 08:55:51 »
Which helos did she carry?
Super Frelon for ASW/transport in wartime. Think Sea King, but 30% bigger.

Standard flight group was 8, which was the limit that fit in the hangar (conceptually they apparently also had 3 Lynx in the flight group, parked on deck). Half the hangar was repurposed for housing the cadets in peacetime configuration though, hence only being able to carry 4 in peacetime.

The helicopters carried 4 Mk44 torpedos, 4 depth charges or two Exocets. Plus dipping sonar. And internal add-on tanks that gave them a 4-hour ASW patrol endurance. And said 20mm door gun.

They kept one 8-helo ASW flight group around for her until 2007, then went down to a 4-helo group until she retired. Originally there were 24 of them procured in the 60s.



In her training cruiser role she was usually outfitted with lighter helos for transport, liaison and interdiction roles. Typically this was 2 Alouette III from Naval Aviation plus (since 1992) 2 Cougar and 2-3 Gazelle from Army Aviation.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #308 on: 04 January 2019, 08:58:29 »
Super Frelon for ASW/transport in wartime. Think Sea King, but 30% bigger.
...
The helicopters carried 4 Mk44 torpedos
...
WOW 8) BIG guys!

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #309 on: 04 January 2019, 12:38:20 »


The Admiral Hipper following the capture of Kiel.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #310 on: 04 January 2019, 12:44:49 »
The picture looks off . . .
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kato

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #311 on: 04 January 2019, 14:13:00 »
It's a colorized version of a picture from the official Imperial War Museum (UK).

The picture is always a bit suspicious as to its exact timing because Hipper was scuttled in that drydock on May 2nd (before the picture was supposedly taken, British troops arrived May 4th) and in other pictures lays far deeper with a very notable cant.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #312 on: 04 January 2019, 15:01:53 »
I am familiar with IWM- lol, wish they had some bigger shirts, my wife wears my HMS Belfast t-shirt now.

Colorizing is why it looks off to me, explains its CGI look.
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Sabelkatten

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #313 on: 04 January 2019, 15:24:32 »
It's a colorized version of a picture from the official Imperial War Museum (UK).

The picture is always a bit suspicious as to its exact timing because Hipper was scuttled in that drydock on May 2nd (before the picture was supposedly taken, British troops arrived May 4th) and in other pictures lays far deeper with a very notable cant.
It looks to be listing at 10-15 degrees in that picture.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #314 on: 04 January 2019, 15:53:46 »


(Note the mast of the light cruiser Emden at far right)
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #315 on: 04 January 2019, 16:18:01 »
IMO the biggest question is when it was draped with camo nets.  The color picture also seems to be a narrower slip and show more damage to the ship- B&W shows both turrets aligned and gun barrels at the same level.  Color pic also seems to show more damage with a break in the deck's armor belt.
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #316 on: 04 January 2019, 19:52:34 »
The Japanese WWII era Hashidate class Gunship Uji
She was armed with three 120mm guns, and pair of 25mm aa-guns.  She also had depth charges.

Funny is she lasted longer in service than most ships her generation, since was prize of war for Republic of China and later People's Republic of China ending up being named the Nan Chang after being captured during the Chinese Civil War.

She was scrapped in the 1980s.

Found couple interesting pictures of the ship.  I imagine that the bamboo they used around the bridge was protect from bullets or flying debris.
« Last Edit: 04 January 2019, 19:54:14 by Wrangler »
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #317 on: 07 January 2019, 14:09:44 »
That was pretty common for Japanese ships, using extra padding around the bridge and flag facilities to protect from splinters and such. The carriers at Midway had the crew's bedrolls rolled and stuffed against the island structures, for example. (Akagi is shown here)(

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Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #318 on: 07 January 2019, 14:31:37 »
....did they also have daily grog rations, issue a dozen lashes and fire chain shot at the enemy?

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #319 on: 07 January 2019, 14:33:45 »
That was pretty common for Japanese ships, using extra padding around the bridge and flag facilities to protect from splinters and such. The carriers at Midway had the crew's bedrolls rolled and stuffed against the island structures, for example. (Akagi is shown here)(



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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #320 on: 07 January 2019, 16:07:22 »
....did they also have daily grog rations, issue a dozen lashes and fire chain shot at the enemy?

in the IJN, it was Sake Rations (flag officers usually arranged for Scotch or other such western drinks) Army troops got Sake or Rice Beer, whichever was available. Tea was the staple drink for both branches though. Military troops from both branches tended to get rather more food and luxuries than the civilians (more meat and veggies in their meals for example. and rations of various sweets), partly because the troops needed the extra protein and vitamins, partly as an incentive to join the military. this usually only worked out as planned in garrison though.. their ability to supply troops in the field was terrible. and their food issue had dietary problem in that they used white rice exclusively, which caused dietary deficiencies civilians (who largely ate brown rice) didn't get.

Flogging was a standard punishment for extreme offenses in both the imperial japanses navy and army. (it was also part of the law code for civilians as well so not surprising)

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #321 on: 07 January 2019, 19:33:59 »
The issue with dietary deficiencies due to eating white rice (primarily beriberi, or thiamine deficiency) actually date back centuries in Japan.  White rice was a luxury food that nobles tried to get as much as they could, eating it exclusively if possible and leading to one of the few instances of a society in which the upper class were more prone to a dietary deficiency condition than the lower class.  Until the 19th Century, it was believed by Japanese people to be a disease caused by living in the capital city, so when you got it you went out to the country to recover.  And, since white rice was much harder to get in the country, people did recover because they were eating brown rice, beans, meat, and other things that were high in thiamine.

In the late 19th Century, a Japanese physician noticed that foreigners almost never developed the condition despite living in the same conditions as the nobles who did and began to speculate about it being caused by diet.  To this end, he actually had a Japanes Navy ship equipped with the fare that Western ships carried and had it sail to New Zealand and back.  Unlike most Japanese ships, which again relied almost exclusively on white rice and regularly lost a serious percentage of the crew on long voyages, this ship only lost three sailors, all of whom had refused to eat anything but white rice.
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Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #322 on: 07 January 2019, 20:51:11 »
dum dum dum DA DA dum DA DA dum...
dum dum dum DA DA dum DA DA dum DA DA dum...
dum DA dum da-da-da dum, da-dum dum da-da-da dum
da dum, da-da dum, da-da dum, da-da dum...




one of the few instances of a society in which the upper class were more prone to a dietary deficiency condition than the lower class. 

the European nobility tended to have problems from not eating enough vegetables

and IIRC it wasn't a "centuries-old" problem, wasn't it only after the Meiji restoration that the Japanese nobility could afford to eat exclusively polished rice and so encounter this remarkable phenomenon?

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #323 on: 07 January 2019, 21:04:24 »
Are those torpedo nets I see rigged on those grand ladies?

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #324 on: 07 January 2019, 21:14:10 »
the European nobility tended to have problems from not eating enough vegetables

Not to the same extent, since there wasn't the same focus on eating a single food to the exclusion of everything else.

Quote
and IIRC it wasn't a "centuries-old" problem, wasn't it only after the Meiji restoration that the Japanese nobility could afford to eat exclusively polished rice and so encounter this remarkable phenomenon?

The article I read on the subject claimed it was a condition that was known in Japan since the 16th or 17th century, but it became far more widespread during the Meiji period as polished rice became more readily available.
« Last Edit: 08 January 2019, 01:24:29 by MoneyLovinOgre4Hire »
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #325 on: 08 January 2019, 01:22:36 »
Are those torpedo nets I see rigged on those grand ladies?

Nelsons were not fitted with anti-torpedo nets, and most WW1 ships ditched them when refitted.
Should be paravanes for anti-mine work. Conway's battleships has a contemporary picticure of Queen Liz using one.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #326 on: 08 January 2019, 03:29:26 »
Not to the same extent, since there wasn't the same focus on eating a single food to the exclusion of everything else.
For some time it was however a sign of wealth to have bad teeth. Only rich persons could afford sugar! :D

The article I read on the subject claimed it was a condition that was known in Japan since the 16th or 17th century, but it became far more widespread during the Meiji period as polished rice became more readily available.
The one I read said this was one of the clues to the cause. Once machines made white rice affordable the "disease" spread outside the nobility and some people started drawing the correct conclusions.

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #327 on: 08 January 2019, 07:07:58 »
Are those torpedo nets I see rigged on those grand ladies?
Those wood poles are intended for boats the crew uses to ferry to ship to shore. The nets are used sometimes for the crew climb up and on. If look look at the center Battleship closely u can see crew climbing down on to boat.  Not every port bavk then had dredged harbors or acquit pier room for those battlewagons.

Glad it was fairly rare now for ships to resort to that method to getting to shore exept for largest ships such as amphibious assault ships and of course Aircraft Carriers.
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marauder648

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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #328 on: 12 January 2019, 03:40:27 »
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Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #329 on: 12 January 2019, 03:58:38 »
Great photo.  You never get a good impression of just how big those damn things were usually.  At least it's got spare parts from its sisters to run a while longer; Donskoy is the last of the Typhoons.  I get the feeling they'll keep it around a while for the prestige and title, even if the Boreis are still significantly bigger than anyone else's boomers.

Seven submarines in close formation indeed!



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