Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master  (Read 47908 times)

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21738
  • Third time this week!
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #30 on: 02 October 2012, 17:21:23 »
On the other hand, a guy filled me with the strongest urge to date to drag him into the parking lot and lungpunch him by doing the same thing to my entire battleforce using infantry squads, in a BMR-rules game. I'll admit, he was pulling out every trick in the book, including insisting on 20-minute-long rules arguments in every phase of every turn, so I probably can't blame that tactic alone on that.

Yeeeah, that's not someone to game with. Ick.

Mine was a legit move by one of my longtime local gamers who saw an opportunity and lunged at it before I could get out of the trap (we had other units that needed to move first).
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40825
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #31 on: 02 October 2012, 17:27:51 »
Yeah, that one sounds legit(and evil >:D) to me.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Scotty

  • Alpha Strike Guru by appointment to the FWLM
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13699
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #32 on: 02 October 2012, 17:28:19 »
Just hang outside of single-turn flight range.  For Arrow IV, you can just park a paltry 20 hexes or so away, and then sprint to be RIGHT THERE and the enemy can't do anything about it.  Oh, sure, they're going to kill the hover, but it'll be a dangerous proposition.
Catalyst Demo Agent #679

Kansas City players, or people who are just passing through the area, come join us at the Geekery just off Shawnee Mission Parkway for BattleTech!  Current days are Tuesdays in the afternoon and evening.  I can't make every single week, but odds are pretty good that somebody will be there.

chanman

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3918
  • Architect of suffering
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #33 on: 02 October 2012, 19:43:16 »
On the other hand, a guy filled me with the strongest urge to date to drag him into the parking lot and lungpunch him by doing the same thing to my entire battleforce using infantry squads, in a BMR-rules game. I'll admit, he was pulling out every trick in the book, including insisting on 20-minute-long rules arguments in every phase of every turn, so I probably can't blame that tactic alone on that.

Talk about a suitable situation for calling in artillery on your own position

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21738
  • Third time this week!
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #34 on: 02 October 2012, 19:49:35 »
Talk about a suitable situation for calling in artillery on your own position

With Weirdo? Probably the safest place to be is right where he's aiming.  #P

(All in good fun, my friend! :D)
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40825
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #35 on: 02 October 2012, 21:01:43 »
Maybe not. If I keep pestering him, Chunga may finally let me start shooting myself. Then where will you be?
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Orin J.

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2785
  • I am to feared! Aw, come on guys...
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #36 on: 02 October 2012, 21:31:13 »
Savanna Masters- because sometimes, your Urbie needs roller skates.

Maybe not. If I keep pestering him, Chunga may finally let me start shooting myself. Then where will you be?

between wierdo and hellbie, i'm fairly certain the mods have the makings of the greatest slapstick/genocide comedy duo of all time.
The Grey Death Legion? Dead? Gotcha, wake me when it's back.....
--------------------------
Every once in a while things make sense.


Don't let these moments alarm you. They pass.

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40825
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #37 on: 02 October 2012, 21:37:22 »
We'd be like the Animaniacs, if we can get MadCap to be our Dot.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

ianargent

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 188
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #38 on: 02 October 2012, 21:38:15 »
Reference to the Master the Savannah thread reminded me; your average clan warrior probably hates the silly things. Nothing says "I spit in the face of Zellbrigen" like a Savannah Swarm, and, frustratingly, they will have a heck of a time running them down. And when they do it's "Artillery: Incoming" time, most likely, or an ambush by slow movers who have been maneuvering with the help of the hovers.

ISTM that the Savannah Master is the embodiment of everything Wrong with the Inner Sphere way of war.
Yes, KF drive vessels, assuming they survive the atmospher[ic reentry] (they take 100 points of damage per hex per turn of velocity in the atmosphere), do tend to use an aggressive lithobraking method for landing.

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40825
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #39 on: 02 October 2012, 21:39:18 »
ISTM that the Savannah Master is the embodiment of everything Wrong with the Inner Sphere way of war.

This sentiment. I agree with it.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21738
  • Third time this week!
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #40 on: 02 October 2012, 22:05:11 »
Maybe not. If I keep pestering him, Chunga may finally let me start shooting myself. Then where will you be?

"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

SCC

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8392
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #41 on: 02 October 2012, 22:20:21 »
I recently had a player use them another unexpected way- you can't move through a hex containing an enemy unit, right? Surrounding my Schiltron with four Savvies (and a tall cliff covering the other two hex sides) meant I was forced to not move- and in doing so, the Schiltron was toast. Miserable experience!
TW, pg. 57, stacking, it's legal for units from different sides to occupy the same hex so you could have moved into the hex one of the SM's was in turn 1 and then next turn hopefully moved away from them

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21738
  • Third time this week!
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #42 on: 03 October 2012, 14:33:22 »
TW, pg. 57, stacking, it's legal for units from different sides to occupy the same hex so you could have moved into the hex one of the SM's was in turn 1 and then next turn hopefully moved away from them

In which case I'm only moving one hex- which means I'm not gaining anything from it except to bump my to-hit numbers by using my cruise speed. And the next turn I'm just going to get surrounded again. My plan, therefore, was to park it and try to get rid of a Savvie or two and see if that helped any.

I'm familiar with the games rules- I just got caught in a trap. Moving one hex would have accomplished very little.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Isanova

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1339
  • There you are!
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #43 on: 03 October 2012, 23:16:04 »

I recently had a player use them another unexpected way- you can't move through a hex containing an enemy unit, right? Surrounding my Schiltron with four Savvies (and a tall cliff covering the other two hex sides) meant I was forced to not move- and in doing so, the Schiltron was toast. Miserable experience!

How can that meet the reasonableness test?

"Command, you want me to do WHAT with my lance, to that monster?!? WE"RE A RECON DEPLOYMENT!!!"

"Rush in there and use your air skirts to bump him in place, so our big guns can shoot in your direction soldier!"
Freeborn and proud~

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40825
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #44 on: 03 October 2012, 23:22:16 »
It's more reasonable than the people who see small fast units like these as little more than guided missiles...
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Comedian

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 82
  • The Artist formerly known as Comedian
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #45 on: 04 October 2012, 16:08:15 »
Survivability of those things is imo pretty high. I fielded a lot of them in Planetary Militias. They get the job done and are cheap.
Listen to your inner Lyran.
Take a Assault Mech!

Yes I was on the old boards.

Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #46 on: 04 October 2012, 16:43:54 »
Regarding the usefulness of the 25 SFE, here is a list (missing only WiGEs) on the types of units capable of using one (I compiled the list a few years back when I was stuck in a hospital room with a laptop and no internet connection... luckily I had my trusty BMR with me...).

I post the list here rather than in the construction forums because (aside from a comment or two) I make no attempt here at construction and the table might serve to fuel speculation on what the cache was for.


Fully Legal uses for the 25-rated engine:

'mech:     25 ton  1/2  MP

tracked:   25 ton  1/2  MP
tracked:    5 ton  5/8  MP
tracked:    1 ton 25/38 MP – using fractional accounting only

wheeled:   35 ton  1/2  MP
wheeled:    7 ton  5/8  MP
wheeled:    5 ton  7/11 MP
wheeled:    1 ton 35/53 MP – using fractional accounting only

hover:     50 ton* 5/8  MP – engine weighs 10 tons regardless of type
hover:     38 ton* 5/8  MP – engine weighs 8 tons regardless of type
hover:     29 ton* 5/8  MP – engine weighs 6 tons regardless of type
hover:     20 ton* 5/8  MP – engine weighs 4 tons regardless of type
hover:      5 ton 14/21 MP – (Savannah Master)
hover:      1 ton 55/83 MP – using fractional accounting only

VTOL:      11 ton 10/15 MP
VTOL:       5 ton 15/23 MP – (Ferret)
VTOL:       1 ton 65/98 MP – using fractional accounting only

naval:     45 ton  1/2  MP
naval:      9 ton  5/8  MP
naval:      5 ton  9/14 MP
naval:      1 ton 45/68 MP – using fractional accounting only

hydrofoil: 99 ton  5/8  MP
hydrofoil: 90 ton  5/8  MP
hydrofoil: 45 ton  6/9  MP
hydrofoil: 35 ton  6/9  MP
hydrofoil: 15 ton  8/12 MP
hydrofoil: 12 ton 10/15 MP
hydrofoil:  5 ton 15/23 MP
hydrofoil:  3 ton 25/38 MP
hydrofoil:  1 ton 75/113MP – using fractional accounting only (1,220.4kph: 16.3kph shy speed of sound)

ASF:       25 ton  3/5  MP – DJ&JS Small Craft/Shuttles use ASF construction rules
ASF:        5 ton  7/11 MP

Conv.Ftr.: 25 ton  1/2  MP – Conceptually useful as an air-launched glider
Conv.Ftr.:  5 ton  5/8  MP


Caveat: I have found minor errors in other parts of the master table, so check numbers for yourself to guarantee accuracy.
If I missed any applications, or you have compiled WiGE applications... or if you locate any errors, please let me know so I can amend the table.




Sabelkatten

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6959
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #47 on: 04 October 2012, 17:43:32 »
You only used a suspension factor of 10 for wheeled vehicles, it should be 20... :) And the SM moves 13/20, not 14/21.

Just from vehicles I've built (thought most of them are ICE) I can add tracked 8 ton at 3/5, wheeled 15 ton at 3/5, and wheeled 9 tons at 5/8.

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40825
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #48 on: 04 October 2012, 18:02:39 »
I like the idea of a 9 ton 5/8 boat. It'd make a nice light harbor patrol boat, and dice knows the full spread of the Star League probably had a lot of harbors...
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

ANS Kamas P81

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13235
  • Reimu sees what you have done.
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #49 on: 04 October 2012, 21:09:13 »
It's more reasonable than the people who see small fast units like these as little more than guided missiles...
Now I see a tactical use of SMs cruising for 12 hexes, making six turns in a tight donut around the target.  Do something like the Indian riders circling an impromptu wagon-fort and keeping them penned in.  Just do that with a half-dozen SMs...

...and pray they miss a kick...
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

Diablo48

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4684
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #50 on: 04 October 2012, 22:10:32 »
I like the idea of a 9 ton 5/8 boat. It'd make a nice light harbor patrol boat, and dice knows the full spread of the Star League probably had a lot of harbors...

That was my thought as well, along with the 12 or 15 ton hydrofoil for interception work.  In fact, I can easily see a pair of boats being designed to share the same small engine with the little harbor patrol boat making up the bulk of the fleet for day-to-day work and a handful of bigger, faster, and better armed hydrofoils in case of emergencies.  You could also use the 90 and 99 ton hydrofoils as fast ferries, although I feel like it would make more sense to use a fuel cell than an independent fusion plant for this because they are probably not going to need the independent operations or energy weapons of the patrol boats.

The other real uses I see are the 5 and 11 ton VTOLs which would be useful for military recon work or, more likely, civilian vehicles intended for extended operations in remote areas or long endurance flight.

Now I see a tactical use of SMs cruising for 12 hexes, making six turns in a tight donut around the target.  Do something like the Indian riders circling an impromptu wagon-fort and keeping them penned in.  Just do that with a half-dozen SMs...

...and pray they miss a kick...

That is only covering 6 hexes a turn so you will be easy prey for their weapons.  A better strategy is to only plan on pinning something for one turn so you can dart into position with good defensive mods and then bail out the next turn.  When used strategically this can pin an enemy in a very bad place and potentially set you up for a kill without sacrificing your hovers (or at least not many of them).


View my design musings or request your own custom ride here.

SCC

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8392
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #51 on: 05 October 2012, 04:47:07 »
That is only covering 6 hexes a turn so you will be easy prey for their weapons.  A better strategy is to only plan on pinning something for one turn so you can dart into position with good defensive mods and then bail out the next turn.  When used strategically this can pin an enemy in a very bad place and potentially set you up for a kill without sacrificing your hovers (or at least not many of them).
You use multiple sets of SM's to hold them in place before the arty arrives

Isanova

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1339
  • There you are!
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #52 on: 05 October 2012, 04:50:40 »
You use multiple sets of SM's to hold them in place before the arty arrives

So when the little bugs flee from around your feet, it's time to duck and cover?  ;D
Freeborn and proud~

Welshman

  • Mostly Retired Has Been
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10509
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #53 on: 05 October 2012, 12:24:06 »
How can that meet the reasonableness test?

"Command, you want me to do WHAT with my lance, to that monster?!? WE"RE A RECON DEPLOYMENT!!!"

"Rush in there and use your air skirts to bump him in place, so our big guns can shoot in your direction soldier!"

If you realize that most SM pilots have got to be similar in mindset to WW I fighter pilots (I'm going to fly over an active battlefield in nothing by balsa and canvas and shoot at other planes equipped the same way), then it makes more sense.

These guys have got to be half lunatic to even get into the cockpit. Circling an assault tank at a hundred kilometers an hour makes perfect, if twisted, sense.
-Joel BC-
Catalyst Freelancer (Inactive)

"Some closets will never contain Narnia, no matter how many times we open the door." - Weirdo, in relation to the power of hope.

Matti

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5085
  • In Rory we trust
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #54 on: 06 October 2012, 04:32:27 »
These guys have got to be half lunatic to even get into the cockpit. Circling an assault tank at a hundred kilometers an hour makes perfect, if twisted, sense.
J. Edgars is still better for that job
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

Isanova

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1339
  • There you are!
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #55 on: 06 October 2012, 06:42:03 »
If you realize that most SM pilots have got to be similar in mindset to WW I fighter pilots (I'm going to fly over an active battlefield in nothing by balsa and canvas and shoot at other planes equipped the same way), then it makes more sense.

These guys have got to be half lunatic to even get into the cockpit. Circling an assault tank at a hundred kilometers an hour makes perfect, if twisted, sense.

I don't like your analogy. Back then, it was flying man! something new, amazing and fantastic.

Also, there weren't really anti-aircraft guns to worry about. Your worry from the ground was more rifle shots unless you were unlucky enough to be in the path of an artillery shell. Even those planes move pretty fast.
Freeborn and proud~

chanman

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3918
  • Architect of suffering
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #56 on: 06 October 2012, 12:58:39 »
Ack-Ack, Pom-pom, Archie. AA guns proliferated in WW1 pretty quickly.

Life expectancy for WW1 fighter pilots was shorter than even infantry. As I vaguely recall, the median being around 2 weeks, so insane might be a good word for it.

Then and again, in the 19th century and earlier, they often didn't have trouble at all manning the Forlorn hope either

Welshman

  • Mostly Retired Has Been
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10509
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #57 on: 06 October 2012, 13:29:01 »
Ack-Ack, Pom-pom, Archie. AA guns proliferated in WW1 pretty quickly.

Life expectancy for WW1 fighter pilots was shorter than even infantry. As I vaguely recall, the median being around 2 weeks, so insane might be a good word for it.

Then and again, in the 19th century and earlier, they often didn't have trouble at all manning the Forlorn hope either

Precisely. WW I pilots lives were measured in hours. If you made it past your first few engagements, you might gain a little life expectancy.
-Joel BC-
Catalyst Freelancer (Inactive)

"Some closets will never contain Narnia, no matter how many times we open the door." - Weirdo, in relation to the power of hope.

Fireangel

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3402
  • 7397 posts right down the toilet...
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #58 on: 06 October 2012, 15:44:51 »
You only used a suspension factor of 10 for wheeled vehicles, it should be 20... :)

Hm... on all of them?

Dang.  [metalhealth]

Quote
And the SM moves 13/20, not 14/21.

Y'know, I actually changed that at the last moment when I peeked at the SM's fluff speeds instead of the crunchy speeds.

That'll learn me to not double check!  [blank]

Quote
Just from vehicles I've built (thought most of them are ICE) I can add tracked 8 ton at 3/5, wheeled 15 ton at 3/5, and wheeled 9 tons at 5/8.

At rating 10-25, vehicular ICE, SFE and XLE all weigh the same: 1 ton... of course, that's not taking into account fractional accounting.

Technically, it's "4% overpowered" for the tracked chassis...
« Last Edit: 06 October 2012, 15:47:45 by Fireangel »

Sami Jumppanen

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 541
Re: Vehicle of the Week: Savannah Master
« Reply #59 on: 06 October 2012, 16:53:43 »
Precisely. WW I pilots lives were measured in hours. If you made it past your first few engagements, you might gain a little life expectancy.

IIRC During the Battle of Britain new pilots were pretty much just as dead on british side. Not supprising as they might have only a few dozen flight hours in their fighters and they were fighting against much more experienced Germans.

BTW. Mention of WW1 fighter pilot life-expectancy reminds me about certain character in Blackadder -series.

 

Register