50t Platoon APC w AC-10

[Andras]

(title changed to clarify it's not actually a heavy vehicle (51t+)

I was actually downsizing a Po to fit in a light vehicle transport bay, and changed the motive type to wheeled to see what that would look like. It gave me three tons and I thought, hey, I can stick a platoon in there. It's fairly cheap, and can carry two types of AC-10 ammo (ie frag).

Code: [Select]

HWAPC-AC10 Tank
IS TW non-box set
50 tons 
BV: 574
Cost: 675,000 C-bills

Movement: 4/6 (Wheeled)
Engine: 180 ICE

Internal: 25
Armor: 136
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Front                       5       34
Right                       5       27
Left                        5       27
Rear                        5       21
Turret                      5       27

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
Machine Gun                     FR     0
AC/10                           TU     3
Machine Gun                     TU     0

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
AC/10 Ammo                      BD    10
AC/10 Ammo                      BD    10
Half Machine Gun Ammo           BD   100
Troops - 3.0 tons

The AC10 can be swapped for a pair of AC-2s for a flak-wagon.

[KaiserDunk]

It makes more sense than a Goblin, from a cost point of view.   Post a lance of these in a city for an ambush, with anti-Mech or SRM infantry ready to take advantage of the chaos.

[Daryk]

A stock Goblin sure, but an SRM or LRM (canon) variant would be a different story.

[idea weenie]

For those who want to play with numbers, sarna has the following stats for the AC/10
Tons: 12
Crits: 7
Cost: 200,000 (plus 6,000 C-Bills per ton of ammo)

So after adding the 2 tons of ammo you essentially have 14 tons available for use, but at most 12 tons can be put in the turret.  The options for LRM and SRM carriers are below

For LRMs:
6 * LRM-5 (and 2 tons of ammo) (this should be a common refit using similar mounting brackets) (180,000 C-Bills)
2 * LRM-10 (and 4 tons ammo) (200,000 C-Bills for LRMs)
1 * LRM-15 (and 7! tons of ammo) (might be worth it removing 5 tons of ammo to fit in a medium laser, 3 heat sinks, and a Power Amplifier) (175,000 C-Bills)
1 * LRM-20 (and 4 tons of ammo) (250,000 C-Bills)
(30,000 C-Bills per ton of ammo)

For SRMs:
12 * SRM-2 (and 2 tons of ammo) (120,00 C-Bills just for launchers)
6 * SRM-4 (and 2 tons of ammo) (360,000 C-Bills just for launchers)
4 * SRM-6 (and 2 tons of ammo) (320,000 C-Bills just for launchers)
(27,000 C-Bills per ton of ammo)
(any of these could be a common refit, though the SRM-2 would be the most likely due to cost)

If i wasn't for stacking rules, one thing you might try to do with the LRM-20 version is park 3 close together, to pretend you are an LRM carrier.  When enemy units come in to deal with you, your infantry can have fun with all sorts of short-ranged anti-Mech weaponry.

[worktroll]

Now slim it down to 40 tons to fit in a light vehicle bay. Really, for an IFV that's about as much as you want to use for an invasion IMHO.

Alternative armament - an LRM-10 with two tons ammo, and an SRM6 also with two tons, so you can play special ammo fun.

W.

[Atarlost]

Now slim it down to 40 tons to fit in a light vehicle bay.

I thought light vehicle bays hold 50 tons.  *checks* Looks like 50 tons.   *checks for errata*
https://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/TechManual-2018-11-18-v3.0.pdf?x64300
*searches for references to vehicles* Ah, page 22.  The table of bay stats has apparently been changed.  Let's find the light vehicle bay...

Vehicle, Light (per Cubicle) 50 tons NA (‘Mech) / 1 (Vehicle) 1 Vehicle (up to 50 tons) 5

Nope, still 50 tons. 

If the errata document on the official Catalyst website cannot be trusted to be correct, what can?

[worktroll]

Trust the computer. The computer is not your friend.

(I helped design Leviathans. I get the rules wrong. Don't trust me ;) )

[Andras]

One thing I liked about the AC-10 is it's a real threat to light mechs, and can take the arm off a 20t mech in one go and go internal anywhere else. 

If you do trim the turret weapons weight down to 10t you get an extra 0.5t to play with from the lower turret mechanism weight.


Something like this for missiles:

Code: [Select]

50t Wheeled APC HWAPC-Msl

Mass: 50 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Wheeled
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-X-D-A
Production Year: 0
Cost: 737,500 C-Bills
Battle Value: 674

Power Plant:  180 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 43.2 km/h
Flanking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Armor:  Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  SRM-6
    3  LRM-5s
    2  Machine Guns
    1  Infantry Compartment (3.0 tons)
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      25 points                5.00
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                180                      14.00
    Cruise MP:  4
    Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            0.00
Turret:                                                                    1.00
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 144                  9.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     36       
                                          Left/Right   28/28       
                                              Turret     29       
                                                Rear     23       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Machine Gun                                  FR        0         1         0.50
Machine Gun                                  T         0         1         0.50
SRM-6                                        T         4         1         3.00
3 LRM-5s                                     T         6         3         6.00
Infantry Compartment (3.0 tons)              BD        0         1         3.00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              BD        -         0         0.50
@SRM-6 (15)                                  BD        -         0         1.00
@SRM-6 (Frag) (15)                           BD        -         0         1.00
@LRM-5 (48)                                  BD        -         0         2.00
@LRM-5 (Frag) (24)                           BD        -         0         1.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 7
4w         2       2       1       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(2/2/1), IF 1


Three LRM5s are more scattershot and don't really threaten even a light mech all that much, though they would be better vs non-mech opponents.

[Col Toda]

Very nice as is .Wheeled  Armored Fighting Vehicle has always a demand for. Still working on a 50 ton or less one myself . I was shooting for a 6/9 fuel cell one that would permit a 10 straight line movement on a road . Not managed to shoehorn what I want yet but not given up yet .

[truetanker]

Trust the computer. The computer is not your friend.

Someone played waaay too much Paranoia back in the day...

Computer : Just follow the blue line, don't cross the red. If you come to a green door, DON'T OPEN IT! Your assignment is to retrieve the crate at the end of the blue line.

.... follows blue line up and down hallways, which seems to be forever, finally comes to the bottom of the stairwell... last step, walls and ceiling painted red, blue line goes under stripe and continues to go under again, a green painted door ....

TT

[Sabelkatten]

Someone played waaay too much Paranoia back in the day...

Computer : Just follow the blue line, don't cross the red. If you come to a green door, DON'T OPEN IT! Your assignment is to retrieve the crate at the end of the blue line.

.... follows blue line up and down hallways, which seems to be forever, finally comes to the bottom of the stairwell... last step, walls and ceiling painted red, blue line goes under stripe and continues to go under again, a green painted door ....

TT

Waaay to long ago... :D

I got away with something similar because I had gotten dropped in an oil tank so "I was unable to determine my security clearance". Very good fast-talk roll! ;D

[worktroll]

Someone played waaay too much Paranoia back in the day...

Someone DM'ed lots of Paranoia back in the day ... good days.

[truetanker]

We need to get a Game together on the RPG thread....

Missed games like this, Rifts and Twilight / Merc: 2000...

 :'(

TT

[DOC_Agren]

Someone DM'ed lots of Paranoia back in the day ... good days.

Best Paranoia game I every saw was run as a Live Action Event at a Con in the late 80/early 90 1st game slot Sat am.  It was assuming to see them wandering though the con.

We need to get a Game together on the RPG thread....

Missed games like this, Rifts and Twilight / Merc: 2000...

 :'(

TT

Wow and here I thought I was only one to miss Merc: 2000

[maxcarrion]

It's nice, makes me think militia urban combat vehicle, AC10 with 2 kinds of ammo means it can be pushed into all sorts of service like AAA or AI while still being able to cover AT if needed.

[Siegfried Marcus]

I never really got the one squad infantry carriers.  A Goblin is a huge investment compared to a squad of infantry.  If you want it to carry infantry, I think you may as well commit to the whole platoon.  This seems pretty solid, although wheels make it more vulnerable to motive crits.  A couple of these would go a long way toward protecting your infantry from vehicles and light mechs.

[Daryk]

There is a Goblin variant (the MG one) that carries a whole platoon.  Squad carriers make more sense when you bring the Campaign Ops rules, and start looking at salaries.  Infantry aren't quite so cheap then...

[Siegfried Marcus]

Infantry aren't quite so cheap then...

But I thought life was cheap in the 30th century.  I can see infantry being kinda costly if you are paying a regular salary, but if I'm the Count of East Boondocks, I imagine I can get the barons to each provide me with a squad of semi-trained PBIs in exchange for holding whatever clump of dirt they're on.  What's a feudal nobility for if not doling out land in return for military service?

[Daryk]

Life was cheaper before Campaign Ops... :)

[Cannonshop]

I never really got the one squad infantry carriers.  A Goblin is a huge investment compared to a squad of infantry.  If you want it to carry infantry, I think you may as well commit to the whole platoon.  This seems pretty solid, although wheels make it more vulnerable to motive crits.  A couple of these would go a long way toward protecting your infantry from vehicles and light mechs.

There are a couple of things to keep in mind; the standard Battletech squad is an oversize fireteam.  (seven guys), and a lot of the game scale is kinda weird because it's built around walking tanks, and because as abstracted as the systems have to be to be playable, you can't tabletop the things you'd actually appreciate in reality from having seven infantrymen available to do things like sweeping for roadside bombs and IED's, or moving through buildings to spot targets on parallel streets, and there's also the loss of effective anti-armor capability in squad-level assets in Battletech-a modern squad can carry several weapons that will do quite well against most modern armored vehicles, in addition to serving as other forms of organic support in limited warfare environments that require LOTS of optional rules to be useful in Battletech.