BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Miniatures and Terrain => Iron Wind Metals News and Announcements => Topic started by: speck on 26 January 2013, 17:08:21
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Check out the Announcement (http://www.ironwindmetals.com/d/node/1701) on IWM website for more details.
Link to The Road to the Spectral LAM's Kickstarter (http://www.ironwindmetals.com/d/node/1702), this article is about the process that will be required to make all of the Spectral LAM's from the CAD. How the pricing was determined for the Kickstarter. NEW
Stretch Goals Announced (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1050509756/battletech-word-of-blake-spectral-lams/posts/406384) NEW
Link to Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1050509756/battletech-word-of-blake-spectral-lams)
NOTE: Already sent Marc corrections on selling of Pwwka LAM and link to the MUL.
(http://www.ironwindmetals.com/images/WOBLAMS.jpg)
(http://www.ironwindmetals.com/images/WANETALAM.jpg)
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LOVE IT! O0 O0 [drool] [drool]
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NOTE: Already sent Marc corrections on selling of Pwwka LAM and link to the MUL.
Thank you :)
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Cool!
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Not sure if you shouldn't have switched the $1,600 and $2,000 rewards ;)
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Wow...
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Pledged at the one-of-each level, but without signatures. These bad boys are getting painted.
(And no, I'm not backing out this time.)
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Can't find the previous thread but I already chucked in my $185 for the one of each. O0
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Can't find the previous thread but I already chucked in my $185 for the one of each. O0
I believe it was killed so they could do an official announcement.
I'm really excited for this. If rapid prototyping can result in better miniatures - perhaps even to a consistent scale - I'll be happy.
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Holy crap. O.o :slowly reaching for checkbook:
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I need to talk to my group to see if I can spread it between them...
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Damn my funding is tight for next month, time to try and scrounge some OT at work. Im gonna want one of each, and I don't care about being signed or special packaging. I just want LAM's!
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Just got my job back so I will be hopefully backing this soon.
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These would go great with my Omegas.
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And yes I was referring to the Devil's Tower battle.
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man, i wish i had $130 to spare.. going to check to see how much i can pledge.
if this works out, can we expect the Royal LAM's to get similar treatment?
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man, i wish i had $130 to spare.. going to check to see how much i can pledge.
if this works out, can we expect the Royal LAM's to get similar treatment?
Will depend on how things go. I do have some ideas of what stretch goals could be but will have to run it by Marc.
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Just a NOTE to all of the international fans that want to pledge on the LAM Kickstarter I have sent a email to Marc about solving the issue.
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Ha, I love how there is a link on the kickstarter page to that waneta lam pinterest site, hilarious!
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Check out the Annoucnement (http://www.ironwindmetals.com/d/node/1701) on IWM website for more details.
You mispeld "Announcement"! COME ON!!! Whatever happened to professionalism.
But hey, if IWM is going to keep stealing my money, at least I'll get some more WoB products to show for it!
On a more serious note, a couple of the rewards are a little unclear. Super excited for this though!
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You mispeld "Announcement"! COME ON!!! Whatever happened to professionalism.
But hey, if IWM is going to keep stealing my money, at least I'll get some more WoB products to show for it!
On a more serious note, a couple of the rewards are a little unclear. Super excited for this though!
Which rewards do you need clarification on?
Spelling fixed.
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You mispeld "Announcement"! COME ON!!! Whatever happened to professionalism.
YOU misspelled "mispeld"! :D He's actually done that a few times, now that you mention it. ;D
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Really not interested in this project considering that the other LAMS have been funded for awhile and not released. Also 180 just to get the 3 versions is a little steep. Some decent Kickstart incentives would really be nice, like store credit or bonuses for success. Right now I see it only failing as is.
No offense intended, just truth, IMO.
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Which rewards do you need clarification on?
Spelling fixed.
The ones that reference other reward #s, such as "Pledge $750 or more".
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The Really Cool thing about the Kickstarter page is you get to see the entire IWM crew! O0 It's Great to see the smiling faces of those that give us our Metal Crack! :D
Please give "The Gang" our Thanks Speck! :)
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Just kicked money towards this project. I'm #10 on the $185 3X3 deal. Disregarding the ASF mode I can still field a Level II of LAMs.
( This will be fun- MWAHAHAHA!! )
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I'm in for $185. [drool]
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The ones that reference other reward #s, such as "Pledge $750 or more".
I will ask Marc for clarification on this one.
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My only complaint about this is there's no option to just get all three in their hybrid modes.
Or is there a way to do the $30 pledge three times and pick a different hybrid mode each time? Or is that pledge leve for the mech mode only?
Oh and course will these things be for sale on the IWM website once the production starts? I'm assuming yes, but someone's already asked me if these will be limited edition models so I figured I'd double check.
Other than that I'm already on board for this though I had to go with one of the cheaper options as my gaming budget for february is incredibly small. :(
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My only complaint about this is there's no option to just get all three in their hybrid modes.
Or is there a way to do the $30 pledge three times and pick a different hybrid mode each time? Or is that pledge leve for the mech mode only?
Oh and course will these things be for sale on the IWM website once the production starts? I'm assuming yes, but someone's already asked me if these will be limited edition models so I figured I'd double check.
Other than that I'm already on board for this though I had to go with one of the cheaper options as my gaming budget for february is incredibly small. :(
I will check with Marc if a all Hybrid mode pledge could be added.
Per the Kickstarter page, only those who pledge will have the LAM's for 2013. They would not be release for sale on the website until sometime in 2014
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I will ask Marc for clarification on this one.
The $750 Pledge, if I'm reading it correctly, is :
Reward #9, which is : All three modes of each of the three LAMs in special packaging signed by the IWM crew. The packages are also numbered by pledge dates.
AND
Reward #7, which is : Another set of all three modes of each LAM. These are "spare" so you have a set new in special packaging AND a set to open and use.
This is the level I pledged at. I think this whole project is fantastic and the preview miniature of the Waneta looks amazing. I appreciate all of the hard work Iron Wind Metals puts into creating new miniatures for my favorite hobby and I'm happy to be able to support them as much as I can.
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For all of or International fans who want to pledge to the Kickstarter for the Spectral LAMs can do so now. International pledges are just an extra 20 for shipping. So due to how Kickstarter functions, after a pledge has some backers you can not edit it. So for pledges that no one has backed, the option of an extra 20 appears below the text. For the pledges that have have backers a new pledge have been created for them but 20 dollars higher and marked for international backers only.
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Many thanks! I have posted it in the Spanish forums too. Good luck!!
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The $750 Pledge, if I'm reading it correctly, is :
Reward #9, which is : All three modes of each of the three LAMs in special packaging signed by the IWM crew. The packages are also numbered by pledge dates.
AND
Reward #7, which is : Another set of all three modes of each LAM. These are "spare" so you have a set new in special packaging AND a set to open and use.
This is the level I pledged at. I think this whole project is fantastic and the preview miniature of the Waneta looks amazing. I appreciate all of the hard work Iron Wind Metals puts into creating new miniatures for my favorite hobby and I'm happy to be able to support them as much as I can.
You got it, I was about to post the same thing but I do not have to now.
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Thanks corrinald.
Amusingly, a large shipment of minis just arrived at my door here in the cold, white North.
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WOW tose are nice!!!!!!!! Wish I wasn't out of work right now.....can't buy anything!!! Soon as I get working, I am getting them all!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I will check with Marc if a all Hybrid mode pledge could be added.
Per the Kickstarter page, only those who pledge will have the LAM's for 2013. They would not be release for sale on the website until sometime in 2014
What about the Fan-Funded LAMs from last year? Does this mean we can hope to see them this year? Or that they will be out next year with Spectrals?
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This really needs to be advertised on the battletech main page or something. Maybe even on MWO and Sarna while we are at it. Word needs to get out, or this might not take off!
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It's only been up for a few days, and they're already over 20% of the way there. I'd say this has taken off. 8)
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This really needs to be advertised on the battletech main page or something. Maybe even on MWO and Sarna while we are at it. Word needs to get out, or this might not take off!
Feel free to spread it where ever you like. I don't have a MWO account and am planning to post on sarna forums, just have not been on my desktop since Sunday.
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It's only been up for a few days, and they're already over 20% of the way there. I'd say this has taken off. 8)
No it hasn't! If it had "taken off", they would have been their already, and be looking at 200% over by now! ;)
Personally? i hope for them to hit the 1 million mark!
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Check out my original post for the update, NEW is right beside it
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Check out my original post for the update, NEW is right beside it
You misspelled "producable" (producible).
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I copied it into Microsoft Word to quickly find something. Seriously though, really interesting update.
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You misspelled "producable" (producible).
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I copied it into Microsoft Word to quickly find something. Seriously though, really interesting update.
Will fix tonight, I copied it from a email and thought I check it over good enough. Guess not.
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Man, the Waneta prototype just looks fantastic. I jumped in to get myself all three versions. We'll see if my budget allows for me to grab any others before the end of the campaign.
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Im pledging for all 3 versions of the Waneta as well. Looks incredible! Speck, would it be kosher to post this to my FB page? I know there are a good number of players on my friends lists who don't frequent here.
-Gunz
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We're going to discuss pledging as a group at this fridsys game.
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Im pledging for all 3 versions of the Waneta as well. Looks incredible! Speck, would it be kosher to post this to my FB page? I know there are a good number of players on my friends lists who don't frequent here.
-Gunz
Please post where ever you want. Spread the word. I can only post where I know off. This is especially welcomed by any international player to spread the information about the Kickstarter.
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Completely disinterested in LAMs of all kinds, however you've got me interested at the potential for 3D printed minis for the future.
Have a word with LtDan on the forums, he has a Blender model of an Overlord and Union dropship (with outside griebeling) that he's 3d printed for games.
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i'm thinking about helping out but.....and this sounds bad... will these come with a card to let you know were the parts go? one of them looks to have 12 parts and some of them are dange small. That is what is stopping me from jumping in already
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This is awesome!. I pledged for all 9. Should look great on the table. I hope after this CGL will see how much support BT can get on KS and start more projects. almost 50% in a week is pretty good for a kickstarter and I think a new box set could get even more support (clan box set hint hint.)
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This is awesome!. I pledged for all 9. Should look great on the table. I hope after this CGL will see how much support BT can get on KS and start more projects. almost 50% in a week is pretty good for a kickstarter and I think a new box set could get even more support (clan box set hint hint.)
And I think IWM will also learn to use Kickstarter better as well. Include a video, have specials if certain targets are reached, etc. All very cool (I'm a marketing geek, what can I say).
Thinking of getting 2 sets of all 9 minis to play with on the table. Is the best bet to pledge the $185 twice?
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And I think IWM will also learn to use Kickstarter better as well. Include a video, have specials if certain targets are reached, etc. All very cool (I'm a marketing geek, what can I say).
Thinking of getting 2 sets of all 9 minis to play with on the table. Is the best bet to pledge the $185 twice?
Seems like its the best option atm. Yeh I think for a first try its not bad but more eye-catching things is always good.
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Seems like its the best option atm. Yeh I think for a first try its not bad but more eye-catching things is always good.
We also will be announcing the stretch goals in the next few days. So stay tuned...
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I have mixed feelings on the way this is being done. You are paying a premium to get them in 2013 and everyone else waits till 2014. The problem I have is if I back this I get what I pay for and have to wait for 2014 to buy more or I have to pay the premium price to buy more now. $22.77 is a premium I would be willing to pay to get it funded if after it was funded I could buy more at normal cost.
I think if they would set up so backers could buy them from Iron Wind over the next year this thing would be funded in a day. Right now I have the money but haven't made up my mind
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i'm thinking about helping out but.....and this sounds bad... will these come with a card to let you know were the parts go? one of them looks to have 12 parts and some of them are dange small. That is what is stopping me from jumping in already
any help with the above?
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I'm interested in the scale of these beauties. Is there any possibility we could get a picture of the Waneta next to the Atlas?
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I'm interested in the scale of these beauties. Is there any possibility we could get a picture of the Waneta next to the Atlas?
I will work on that, it does list them as 48mm tall. More information to come.
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I have mixed feelings on the way this is being done. You are paying a premium to get them in 2013 and everyone else waits till 2014. The problem I have is if I back this I get what I pay for and have to wait for 2014 to buy more or I have to pay the premium price to buy more now. $22.77 is a premium I would be willing to pay to get it funded if after it was funded I could buy more at normal cost.
I think if they would set up so backers could buy them from Iron Wind over the next year this thing would be funded in a day. Right now I have the money but haven't made up my mind
What will help lower the price per pledge for the minis would be the stretch goal if they are reached. I am hoping to announce them this week.
I will check with Marc about your other question.
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i'm thinking about helping out but.....and this sounds bad... will these come with a card to let you know were the parts go? one of them looks to have 12 parts and some of them are dange small. That is what is stopping me from jumping in already
I will check on this and let you know.
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What will help lower the price per pledge for the minis would be the stretch goal if they are reached. I am hoping to announce them this week.
I will check with Marc about your other question.
Glad to hear. From a consumer standpoint one of Kickstarter's main selling points is the opportunity to get a great deal by financing a project at its inception. $22 is roughly 50% more expensive than IWMs current assault mechs and twice the price of a medium mech's MSRP. IWM's offering, as opposed to Relic Knights (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/relic-knights) and Reaper's Bones (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1513061270/reaper-miniatures-bones-an-evolution-of-gaming-min?ref=search), just doesn't offer much bang for my buck. For $185 I get.... 9 minis. :(
I hope IWM's kickstarter gets funded, but duplicating the success these other miniature lines achieved is not possible at current price points.
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Anyone else notice there are no holes on the LRM's for the missiles to come out of on the Waneta mini? Am I missing something? If not, I sincerely hope this is fixed.
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Glad to hear. From a consumer standpoint one of Kickstarter's main selling points is the opportunity to get a great deal by financing a project at its inception. $22 is roughly 50% more expensive than IWMs current assault mechs and twice the price of a medium mech's MSRP. IWM's offering, as opposed to Relic Knights (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/relic-knights) and Reaper's Bones (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1513061270/reaper-miniatures-bones-an-evolution-of-gaming-min?ref=search), just doesn't offer much bang for my buck. For $185 I get.... 9 minis. :(
I hope IWM's kickstarter gets funded, but duplicating the success these other miniature lines achieved is not possible at current price points.
Do you realize that they have to make a little extra money on these minis so at they can produce more for the non-donating public? Do you mean to get 9 minis and only donate $135 and for IWM have nothing left over to produce more, buy materials and pay the sculptor(s).
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Do you realize that they have to make a little extra money on these minis so at they can produce more for the non-donating public? Do you mean to get 9 minis and only donate $135 and for IWM have nothing left over to produce more, buy materials and pay the sculptor(s).
Glad to hear. From a consumer standpoint....
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One of the biggest mistakes people make with Kickstarter is going in from a consumer's viewpoint.
Don't.
Kickstarter is not Amazon. Kickstarter is not eBay. Kickstarter is a way for people to donate to interesting projects. That nearly all projects offer physical rewards - copies of the finished product, for example - is not a Kickstarter requirement. In fact, Kickstarter has started to limit how many copies of the product can offered as a single reward.
For established companies, Kickstarter is a great way to gauge interest in, and provide fans with, particularly niche items. For new companies it's a great way to get their first products released at all, or at least to tell them that they've got no market before they get in too much debt. But it should first and foremost be viewed as a way to donate to commercial interests rather than an online store or pre-ordering system.
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Do you realize that they have to make a little extra money on these minis so at they can produce more for the non-donating public? Do you mean to get 9 minis and only donate $135 and for IWM have nothing left over to produce more, buy materials and pay the sculptor(s).
In this case that argument doesn't fly. Because when you sell something retail you put all that cost into it. They are selling these for well above retail. Which means all that is taken into account and more at retail cost.
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One of the biggest mistakes people make with Kickstarter is going in from a consumer's viewpoint.
Don't.
Kickstarter is not Amazon. Kickstarter is not eBay. Kickstarter is a way for people to donate to interesting projects. That nearly all projects offer physical rewards - copies of the finished product, for example - is not a Kickstarter requirement. In fact, Kickstarter has started to limit how many copies of the product can offered as a single reward.
For established companies, Kickstarter is a great way to gauge interest in, and provide fans with, particularly niche items. For new companies it's a great way to get their first products released at all, or at least to tell them that they've got no market before they get in too much debt. But it should first and foremost be viewed as a way to donate to commercial interests rather than an online store or pre-ordering system.
I agree and understand that. But as near as I can tell this Kickstarter needs more money money per mini that it $2777 a mini. But the problem is when you go look at the cost under the Fan funded LAMs these are costing a whole lot more to make than those. Something doesn't add up when you compare the two. It feels like they are trying to raise money for more than just these minis. Which is fine but they don't state what it is. The fan funded has existed for so long we all have a good ideal how much it cost for them to do a mini. The cost for these is way above what we have been shown by IWM that the cost is. Were is the extra money going? Tell us and we would be more likely to jump in. Explain why Waneta cost with free cad drawings cost so much more than the other LAMs that have been fan funded?
ps anyone who has ever had CAV minis knows this statement is wrong "Until recently, the quality of 3-D printed sculpts was significantly worse than what our sculptors could make by hand"
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IWM doesn't do their 3D prototyping in-house. Right there, that drives cost up.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter, though. If you think they're looking for too much money, don't donate.
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What IWM is willing to pay their sculptors is limited by what they anticipate sales revenue to be. The cost to print these minis is $2000 each, and that number is not controlled by IWM. They can figure the sales numbers versus the cost to print, and price the minis accordingly to cover their costs. They`re not raising money for more than just the LAMs, the LAMs are costing that much more.
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In this case that argument doesn't fly. Because when you sell something retail you put all that cost into it. They are selling these for well above retail. Which means all that is taken into account and more at retail cost.
To me it's not selling, it's a reward for those who choose to support a given campaign.
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To me it's not selling, it's a reward for those who choose to support a given campaign.
Exactly my point.
Look at it this way: you're not a customer, you're an investor. Don't skip down to the rewards right off the bat. Watch the sales pitch, read the precis, do some research into the company you're supporting. Remember that there are no guarantees you'll ever get anything out of it. Like a conventional investor, sometimes those dividends come out to a squat zero. But if you're willing to take the risk, go ahead and invest what you feel is a fair amount for the project, only then considering the potential rewards.
Stop thinking like a consumer.
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Hope to see more of these in future. No interest in WOB LAMs at all, however.
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Exactly my point.
Look at it this way: you're not a customer, you're an investor. Don't skip down to the rewards right off the bat. Watch the sales pitch, read the precis, do some research into the company you're supporting. Remember that there are no guarantees you'll ever get anything out of it. Like a conventional investor, sometimes those dividends come out to a squat zero. But if you're willing to take the risk, go ahead and invest what you feel is a fair amount for the project, only then considering the potential rewards.
Stop thinking like a consumer.
You have to think like a consumer. Investors have a chance to loss everything they invest or to make all there money back and even many many times there money back.
All that said I would be willing to invest in this with one simple change. Allow the investors the ablity to buy these at normal cost between now and 2014 at a normal cost. That would make it a worth wild investment. Right now they are planing to make these and give them to investors and sit on them for a year. That is bad for me as an investor because if I want more when I have the money I have to what over a year for more because they are sitting on it doing nothing with the completed molds for a year.
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What IWM is willing to pay their sculptors is limited by what they anticipate sales revenue to be. The cost to print these minis is $2000 each, and that number is not controlled by IWM. They can figure the sales numbers versus the cost to print, and price the minis accordingly to cover their costs. They`re not raising money for more than just the LAMs, the LAMs are costing that much more.
$2000 each sounds about right. However they are wanting closer to $3000 each. Just seems high since they got the CAD's for free. Also why were the fan funded LAMs less? I think that is the part that confuses me the most
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It's production costs; molds, materials, and labour. You're seeing it with the kickstarter because IWM is looking to cover their entire cost, and maybe make a little on top. With a fan-financed project the fans are only covering the sculpting costs, and IWM expects to make up the production costs once the product is available for sale. Or, looking at it slightly differently, when a mini is fan-financed, there are no minis going out the door until customers are paying for them. With the KS, if it succeeds, there will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 800 minis (rough estimate based on the $25k goal and $30/mini; it could be more or less depending on what reward levels are used) to be produced and shipped out, without another dime coming in for them.
In either case the art is essentially free. I don't know the specifics of the license, but I don't believe that IWM pays per piece of art used - illustrators are paid by CGL for their work.
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You have to think like a consumer. Investors have a chance to loss everything they invest or to make all there money back and even many many times there money back.
All that said I would be willing to invest in this with one simple change. Allow the investors the ablity to buy these at normal cost between now and 2014 at a normal cost. That would make it a worth wild investment. Right now they are planing to make these and give them to investors and sit on them for a year. That is bad for me as an investor because if I want more when I have the money I have to what over a year for more because they are sitting on it doing nothing with the completed molds for a year.
Okay, I see my analogy was taken literally. Just go to Kickstarter's main page, click the "What Is Kickstarter?" link at the top, and read through. IWM is handling themselves properly and within the guidelines of the website. If you don't like it, don't contribute.
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Okay, I see my analogy was taken literally. Just go to Kickstarter's main page, click the "What Is Kickstarter?" link at the top, and read through. IWM is handling themselves properly and within the guidelines of the website. If you don't like it, don't contribute.
I didn't say they were doing anything improper. What I am saying is that when I compare it with other projects. The return on investment isn't as good as others I have seen. Fact is when you look at how good of an investment it is you have to compare it to other projects along the same line. The reward is you pay 50% over retail then you get 9 minis. It isn't a good deal at this point. Because a retail price calculates in all the other cost and what you have to charge to make your money back. ( I am guessing retail cost of course because I can't think of any other BT minis that are about $22 bucks each minis the Omega) Now they could make it a worth wild project to invest in buy letting backers buy more at a normal retail cost I would do it then.
Frankly as it sits now I am scared for it to work out. As has been stated established companies do projects like this to gauge intrest in a product. Honestly if this works the way it stands now they might decide to do it with more and more minis going forward. I am not willing to suggest to IWM that I am willing to get a mini early if I have to pay $22 bucks a peace for it. Heck if I am going to invest in it frankly I would rather do it to get it into production faster not slower just so they can use the time as a rewards. So honestly as much as I want the Waneta LAM I am not going to they way it is set up now. A few changes I would. Frankly I am suprised it hasn't been funded already because BT players are fanatics. We will see what happens.
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Since there still seems to be some "Confusion" over why the Kickstarter LAMs will cost so much more than the Fan Financed LAMs, and Speck hasn't chimed in on it, I guess I will. Go to the 1st page of this thread and click the link for "The Road to the Spectral LAM's Kickstarter", and read what is on IWM's site. It spells everything out quite clearly, that while the initial CAD drawings were "Free", there's still many hours required on EACH of them, to convert the drawing into a physical object that can be assembled. This accounts for the price difference in the Fan Financed LAM's, which are done by hand, versus the WOB LAMs, which are done through computer-assisted magic. Or whatever you call the machine that takes computer pictures and creates physical objects from them. :D As the saying goes, "There's a first time for everything.", but they should also add on to the end, "But the first time is usually much more expensive than the second time.". :-\
As for me, there's very few WOB designs that I like, and none of these LAMs are on that list. ;D While I Hope for IWM's sake that they reach their Goal, they're going to have to do it without me.
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To me it's not selling, it's a reward for those who choose to support a given campaign.
You are not buying anything. You are investing in a project. You get some of the finished product as a demonstration
of the product you invested in. You are NOT buying anything. It bugs the heck out of me that people invest in a kickstarter,
and then act like they are owed something. I have some kickstarters that I contributed to that the poor people behind
them are getting harrassed because they ran into delays(For example: Skippy's "Red Shirts" card game, that ran into
some issues with Paramount and is having to have a significant portion of its art redone). What is up with these rather
slow people who don't bloody get that they are NOT BUYING A DARNED THING?! Do you expect a car when you buy
a certain amount of GM stock? Do you expect a free top of the line computer when you buy a certain amount of
Intel stock? Then why the bloody heck do people expect anything when they INVEST in a kickstarter?
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You are not buying anything. You are investing in a project. You get some of the finished product as a demonstration
of the product you invested in. You are NOT buying anything. It bugs the heck out of me that people invest in a kickstarter,
and then act like they are owed something. I have some kickstarters that I contributed to that the poor people behind
them are getting harrassed because they ran into delays(For example: Skippy's "Red Shirts" card game, that ran into
some issues with Paramount and is having to have a significant portion of its art redone). What is up with these rather
slow people who don't bloody get that they are NOT BUYING A DARNED THING?! Do you expect a car when you buy
a certain amount of GM stock? Do you expect a free top of the line computer when you buy a certain amount of
Intel stock? Then why the bloody heck do people expect anything when they INVEST in a kickstarter?
Of course with Kickstarter you are not getting stock or ownership in anyway of the company. Which is why it isn't a real investment. If I buy stock to I expect a car no. But if I buy stock I know I have a chance to make more than my money back. You don't have that chance with Kickstarter. Which is why the ones that do really well seem to offer great perks for people giving the money.
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How silly (read: stupid) this argument is.
Kickstarter is not Groupon or Amazon or Woot.
It's a way for fans to directly finance projects they want made. The point isn't to get a "great deal". A company, such as IWM, is attempting to make the costs it gets to production + some profit on top. It's not that difficult.
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Wow. My comments sure sparked a lot of heated debate.
Obviously people view kickstarters in different ways. As I said earlier, I am a consumer and a project must offer me tangible benefits at reasonable prices. If not I don't back it. Right now the LAM project doesn't offer enough bang for my buck. This is my opinion and it's correct for me.
My goal wasn't to argue the merits of IWM's offering, debate terminology, or spark a flame war. I am an avid Battletech fan with thousands of minis, purchase 2 orders from IWM a year, love LAMs, and have disposable income. I am IWM's target market. I want IWM to succeed. Knowing why my wallet remains closed helps IWM both now and in the future.
Think of my last 2 posts as free market research directed towards IWM and draw your horns in.
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I will admit, the one thing that is causing me reservations about contributing at ANY LEVEL to this
is the lack of any information on the funded since may of '11 3085 LAMs. I am, frankly, not sure if
contributing will even see LAMs done as anything more then a small production run for the backers,
then abandoned. Just as, since they will be able to make them for the Backers, why would it have to
wait until next year for them to be able to make them for general production? I mean, if you have the
molds, what is so hard about spinning them up?
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Just as, since they will be able to make them for the Backers, why would it have to wait until next year for them to be able to make them for general production? I mean, if you have the molds, what is so hard about spinning them up?
I don't think it's an issue of Not being able to produce more until 2014. I think it's an additional enticement to back them, because you'll get them this year, rather than having to wait until next year. The last word is that they haven't decided yet if the minis will be General Release or Online Exclusive either. Either way, if you back the Kickstarter, you get the minis this year, as an incentive for doing so. If you DON'T back them, you have to wait another year. They say the Goal is enough to cover the production of minis for the backers, PLUS additional minis, so they'll have more, they'll just "squat" on them for another year.
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There's also the possibility that they don't want to commit to promising large amounts of these miniatures until they're sure they can produce a consistent number of acceptable quality.
The issues some had with the various map and mech scale dropships as well as their own problems with keeping them in stock seems to be a good example of that.
And of course there will be delays in the project just like with most of thse kickstarter things, and they don't say exactly when in 2014 they'll release them to the general public. You could be looking at a release window similar to the Omega super heavy where a lucky few got them four or so months before they went on general sale.
Though I personally wish my donation (I don't consider it an investment) got me a bit more than what I'll be receiving I'm not displeased with it.
But then I've also spent extra money on Forge World to get a exotic turret for my 40k tanks when I could have just used the ones that came in the box. So my willingness to spend higher than normal prices for exotic and or collectors pieces is perhaps not the same as other consumers.
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General updates for the project, Stretch goals should be announced soon, answers to peoples questions are posted below about Instructions and Backers able to purchase more before general release in 2014. Also updates to the Kickstarter page has included more information about when they will be available, This summer for Backers, General Release in 2014 starting with Origins, Historicon, and Gen Con and the on IWM webstore in Fall 2014.
Also I have created a image gallery for the Kickstarter (https://www.ironwindmetals.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=1160), right now it all the images from the Kickstarter page, plus three more painted pictures.
i'm thinking about helping out but.....and this sounds bad... will these come with a card to let you know were the parts go? one of them looks to have 12 parts and some of them are dange small. That is what is stopping me from jumping in already
Yes, There will be instructions on how to assemble the miniatures.
I think if they would set up so backers could buy them from Iron Wind over the next year this thing would be funded in a day. Right now I have the money but haven't made up my mind
All of the Backers of the Kickstarter will be able to purchase more of the miniatures that are produced from the kickstarter before 2014.
I agree and understand that. But as near as I can tell this Kickstarter needs more money money per mini that it $2777 a mini. But the problem is when you go look at the cost under the Fan funded LAMs these are costing a whole lot more to make than those. Something doesn't add up when you compare the two. It feels like they are trying to raise money for more than just these minis. Which is fine but they don't state what it is. The fan funded has existed for so long we all have a good ideal how much it cost for them to do a mini. The cost for these is way above what we have been shown by IWM that the cost is. Were is the extra money going? Tell us and we would be more likely to jump in. Explain why Waneta cost with free cad drawings cost so much more than the other LAMs that have been fan funded?
Please check out, The Road to the Spectral LAM (http://www.ironwindmetals.com/d/node/1702) article on IWM website for more details on why the cost to produce the LAM's from the CAD is expense. It goes into details of what all has to be done to the CAD file so that a proper miniature master can be made. The first test, Waneta Ground mode, got $2000 for all of the CAD adjustments and printing on a high quality 3D Printer. The extra money beyond the 18,000 for the 9 Master copies goes into producing the master, production molds. Both of which take time to be completed and then some of the money goes into the other cost of getting the miniatures manufactured and packaged. Others have already commented about why there is a pricing difference on the Fan Funded items, to go along with it, there are the hidden costs that the Fan Fundraisers do not pay for. Such as the master and production mold making and all of the other costs that go into getting a miniature produced for sale. All the Fan Fundraisers pay for is the sculpting of the miniature by one of the several sculptors who have been doing battletech miniatures since the Ral Partha days.
Hope to see more of these in future. No interest in WOB LAMs at all, however.
So would we, but the selection of what we can do with the CAD is limited by what art is done that we can get CAD for. Right now its the LAM's that Stephen Huda has done and maybe some of his other work for Battletech.
$2000 each sounds about right. However they are wanting closer to $3000 each. Just seems high since they got the CAD's for free. Also why were the fan funded LAMs less? I think that is the part that confuses me the most
Part of this I have answered above, but will just touch on the CAD part. The CAD files from Stephen Huda were given to IWM for Free, but we can not just take them to any 3D printer and print off a master. This was done originally almost a year ago and it was a complete disaster. The miniature had the 3D printer lines all through out it and when cleaned up it lost all of the details. The link I provided above for "The Road to the Spectral LAM's goes into all of the details of what needs to be done to make a miniature from the CAD files.
I will admit, the one thing that is causing me reservations about contributing at ANY LEVEL to this
is the lack of any information on the funded since may of '11 3085 LAMs. I am, frankly, not sure if
contributing will even see LAMs done as anything more then a small production run for the backers,
then abandoned. Just as, since they will be able to make them for the Backers, why would it have to
wait until next year for them to be able to make them for general production? I mean, if you have the
molds, what is so hard about spinning them up?
I touched on some of the delays of the MkI LAM's in this post (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,2415.msg601109.html#msg601109). What gives you the idea that only a small production run will be made for just the Backers of the project, this has not been said at all. What has been said is that Backers will get theirs by June or July of 2013, then starting in summer of 2014 they will be available at the Origins, Historicon, and Gen Con. In the Fall of 2014 they will go up on IWM website. As I just said above, the backers of the project will be able to order more of the LAM's before next year. I just found this out today when I heard from Marc. The delay in general release is part of the perks of Backing the project.
There's also the possibility that they don't want to commit to promising large amounts of these miniatures until they're sure they can produce a consistent number of acceptable quality.
The issues some had with the various map and mech scale dropships as well as their own problems with keeping them in stock seems to be a good example of that.
The delay for general release until 2014 has nothing to do with making sure IWM can produce hem consistently. Once the production molds are done, they will be able to produce them just like any other miniature. Like I have said already, the delay is a bonus to those that Back the project. I just found out today that anyone that backs the project will be able to buy more before the general release date. So even if you just Pledge $10 dollars to the project, it will still allow you to buy the miniatures later on.
The issues with the Map Scale dropships was due to the fact that they were manufactured by another company for IWM. That company became very unreliable for quality product. It took some time to find another vendor that could produce them again and hopefully they can keep up with the demand.
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So even if you just Pledge $10 dollars to the project, it will still allow you to buy the miniatures later on.
You just got me. A big drawback for me was that I don't have a spare $185 sitting around to ensure I can get one of each for my collection. Being able to donate $10 now and buy them piecemeal over the course of a year makes a big difference. I can spare $10. Publicize this part, and you'll get more backers. O0
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General updates for the project, Stretch goals should be announced soon, answers to peoples questions are posted below about Instructions and Backers able to purchase more before general release in 2014. Also updates to the Kickstarter page has included more information about when they will be available, This summer for Backers, General Release in 2014 starting with Origins, Historicon, and Gen Con and the on IWM webstore in Fall 2014.
Also I have created a image gallery for the Kickstarter (https://www.ironwindmetals.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=1160), right now it all the images from the Kickstarter page, plus three more painted pictures.
Yes, There will be instructions on how to assemble the miniatures.
All of the Backers of the Kickstarter will be able to purchase more of the miniatures that are produced from the kickstarter before 2014.
Please check out, The Road to the Spectral LAM (http://www.ironwindmetals.com/d/node/1702) article on IWM website for more details on why the cost to produce the LAM's from the CAD is expense. It goes into details of what all has to be done to the CAD file so that a proper miniature master can be made. The first test, Waneta Ground mode, got $2000 for all of the CAD adjustments and printing on a high quality 3D Printer. The extra money beyond the 18,000 for the 9 Master copies goes into producing the master, production molds. Both of which take time to be completed and then some of the money goes into the other cost of getting the miniatures manufactured and packaged. Others have already commented about why there is a pricing difference on the Fan Funded items, to go along with it, there are the hidden costs that the Fan Fundraisers do not pay for. Such as the master and production mold making and all of the other costs that go into getting a miniature produced for sale. All the Fan Fundraisers pay for is the sculpting of the miniature by one of the several sculptors who have been doing battletech miniatures since the Ral Partha days.
So would we, but the selection of what we can do with the CAD is limited by what art is done that we can get CAD for. Right now its the LAM's that Stephen Huda has done and maybe some of his other work for Battletech.
Part of this I have answered above, but will just touch on the CAD part. The CAD files from Stephen Huda were given to IWM for Free, but we can not just take them to any 3D printer and print off a master. This was done originally almost a year ago and it was a complete disaster. The miniature had the 3D printer lines all through out it and when cleaned up it lost all of the details. The link I provided above for "The Road to the Spectral LAM's goes into all of the details of what needs to be done to make a miniature from the CAD files.
I touched on some of the delays of the MkI LAM's in this post (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,2415.msg601109.html#msg601109). What gives you the idea that only a small production run will be made for just the Backers of the project, this has not been said at all. What has been said is that Backers will get theirs by June or July of 2013, then starting in summer of 2014 they will be available at the Origins, Historicon, and Gen Con. In the Fall of 2014 they will go up on IWM website. As I just said above, the backers of the project will be able to order more of the LAM's before next year. I just found this out today when I heard from Marc. The delay in general release is part of the perks of Backing the project.
The delay for general release until 2014 has nothing to do with making sure IWM can produce hem consistently. Once the production molds are done, they will be able to produce them just like any other miniature. Like I have said already, the delay is a bonus to those that Back the project. I just found out today that anyone that backs the project will be able to buy more before the general release date. So even if you just Pledge $10 dollars to the project, it will still allow you to buy the miniatures later on.
The issues with the Map Scale dropships was due to the fact that they were manufactured by another company for IWM. That company became very unreliable for quality product. It took some time to find another vendor that could produce them again and hopefully they can keep up with the demand.
Knowing I can buy in at any level and be able to buy more without waiting a year make it likely I would help out.
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You just got me. A big drawback for me was that I don't have a spare $185 sitting around to ensure I can get one of each for my collection. Being able to donate $10 now and buy them piecemeal over the course of a year makes a big difference. I can spare $10. Publicize this part, and you'll get more backers. O0
Yeah..same here, Jal. I wonder how they will be handling Backers making orders, though?
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hey speck, if you intend on adding stretch goals, how does this sound: Have some of the strech goals that you will use this same process to produce masters for the mech and fighter modes of one of the Star League LAMs, and a couple of goals that would also add the airmech modes. I figure, if it takes $2000 per sculpt, then having these at $5000 intervals would be able to fund the two modes with some buffer room/ extra money for IWM overhead and Christmas bonuses, so doubling the initial goal would get us 2 modes of the SL LAMs and $7500-8000 would let you produce all three modes of every single LAM there is.
If you did do that, though, which would be really, really great, the people who funded those sculpts should have a say in which ones are added as which stretch goal level.
Anyways, it is nice to know we can donate what we can afford to the kickstarter now, and and be able to buy more later. I really want that expensive whole nine yards set, but I just burnt my spare cash on another kickstarter.
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Not that the list of Kickstarter options isn't long enough, but would you consider adding options for all 3 mechs in mech mode or 3 copies of one mech in one configuration?
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General updates for the project, Stretch goals should be announced soon, answers to peoples questions are posted below about Instructions and Backers able to purchase more before general release in 2014. Also updates to the Kickstarter page has included more information about when they will be available, This summer for Backers, General Release in 2014 starting with Origins, Historicon, and Gen Con and the on IWM webstore in Fall 2014.
Also I have created a image gallery for the Kickstarter (https://www.ironwindmetals.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=1160), right now it all the images from the Kickstarter page, plus three more painted pictures.
Yes, There will be instructions on how to assemble the miniatures.
All of the Backers of the Kickstarter will be able to purchase more of the miniatures that are produced from the kickstarter before 2014.
Please check out, The Road to the Spectral LAM (http://www.ironwindmetals.com/d/node/1702) article on IWM website for more details on why the cost to produce the LAM's from the CAD is expense. It goes into details of what all has to be done to the CAD file so that a proper miniature master can be made. The first test, Waneta Ground mode, got $2000 for all of the CAD adjustments and printing on a high quality 3D Printer. The extra money beyond the 18,000 for the 9 Master copies goes into producing the master, production molds. Both of which take time to be completed and then some of the money goes into the other cost of getting the miniatures manufactured and packaged. Others have already commented about why there is a pricing difference on the Fan Funded items, to go along with it, there are the hidden costs that the Fan Fundraisers do not pay for. Such as the master and production mold making and all of the other costs that go into getting a miniature produced for sale. All the Fan Fundraisers pay for is the sculpting of the miniature by one of the several sculptors who have been doing battletech miniatures since the Ral Partha days.
So would we, but the selection of what we can do with the CAD is limited by what art is done that we can get CAD for. Right now its the LAM's that Stephen Huda has done and maybe some of his other work for Battletech.
Part of this I have answered above, but will just touch on the CAD part. The CAD files from Stephen Huda were given to IWM for Free, but we can not just take them to any 3D printer and print off a master. This was done originally almost a year ago and it was a complete disaster. The miniature had the 3D printer lines all through out it and when cleaned up it lost all of the details. The link I provided above for "The Road to the Spectral LAM's goes into all of the details of what needs to be done to make a miniature from the CAD files.
I touched on some of the delays of the MkI LAM's in this post (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,2415.msg601109.html#msg601109). What gives you the idea that only a small production run will be made for just the Backers of the project, this has not been said at all. What has been said is that Backers will get theirs by June or July of 2013, then starting in summer of 2014 they will be available at the Origins, Historicon, and Gen Con. In the Fall of 2014 they will go up on IWM website. As I just said above, the backers of the project will be able to order more of the LAM's before next year. I just found this out today when I heard from Marc. The delay in general release is part of the perks of Backing the project.
The delay for general release until 2014 has nothing to do with making sure IWM can produce hem consistently. Once the production molds are done, they will be able to produce them just like any other miniature. Like I have said already, the delay is a bonus to those that Back the project. I just found out today that anyone that backs the project will be able to buy more before the general release date. So even if you just Pledge $10 dollars to the project, it will still allow you to buy the miniatures later on.
The issues with the Map Scale dropships was due to the fact that they were manufactured by another company for IWM. That company became very unreliable for quality product. It took some time to find another vendor that could produce them again and hopefully they can keep up with the demand.
This is all great stuff to hear. I can't wait to see the stretch goal. You could also add options like other KS do where a person can pledge at a certain level and then add miniatures they want a la carte. Would certainly make it easier and clearer for backers to get what they want.
I read the Road to the Kickstarter and was very happy to find out you are using domestic partners. Not only do I like it when companies keep things "in house" but it drastically reduces the chance of delays. Many of CGL's projects (Leviathans, The Duke, Battletech intro set) have been delayed or severely delayed by their overseas partners. Keeping things domestic does increase cost and price but I think its worth it.
So since it looks like the CAD problems were mostly solved (as the Waneta came out very nice) does that mean the Star League Lams are back on to be done in CAD rather than sculpted? Cause like others said that would be a great stretch goal.
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Yeah..same here, Jal. I wonder how they will be handling Backers making orders, though?
I will have to set everything up, but the plan is to do it through the IWM online store with special access for backers. The plan is to roll the backers in to it, since it will take time to do the adjustments. I can do separate customer groups on the online store, would set one up for the backers. More details will go out once the project has met it's goal to all of the backers.
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Not that the list of Kickstarter options isn't long enough, but would you consider adding options for all 3 mechs in mech mode or 3 copies of one mech in one configuration?
I can check with Marc to see how he would like to handle something like that.
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Speck,
Can you tell us how the different modes will be packaged after the Kickstarter? (i.e. Will this produce 9 individual models vs. 3 different 3-packs for future sale?)
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Unless some big backers turn up, this project has to find 1,200 backers to give $10 or Raise $630+ per day.
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Unless some big backers turn up, this project has to find 1,200 backers to give $10 or Raise $630+ per day.
Kickstarter projects make most of their money in the first 3 and the last 3 days. Kickstarters that reach close to 50% in their first week have a very high chance of succeeding. I'm not too worried about this not reaching its goal. I only hope it manages to make a little on top so we can hit some stretch goals.
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More updates are to come....
Speck,
Can you tell us how the different modes will be packaged after the Kickstarter? (i.e. Will this produce 9 individual models vs. 3 different 3-packs for future sale?)
As of now the plan is to offer them as sets of 9 to the Backers of the project after it is funded. More information on the details on the breakdown based on the pledge amount is coming. But next year once they are available during the Con Season as specials, they will most likely be done in sets of three for each one.
Anyone else notice there are no holes on the LRM's for the missiles to come out of on the Waneta mini? Am I missing something? If not, I sincerely hope this is fixed.
This was noticed and will be fixed on the master by one of the sculptors and then a new mold created.
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just picked my reward.. a little over 10K to go good luck you all
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This was noticed and will be fixed on the master by one of the sculptors and then a new mold created.
Awesome...thanks Speck!
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As of now the plan is to offer them as sets of 9 to the Backers of the project after it is funded. More information on the details on the breakdown based on the pledge amount is coming. But next year once they are available during the Con Season as specials, they will most likely be done in sets of three for each one.
Nice. Thanks!
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You guys should really release this info on the kickstarter. You are already over halfway through and to still have 0 updates at this point isn't very good form especially since you have put some info out in this thread that backers would like to know.
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You guys should really release this info on the kickstarter. You are already over halfway through and to still have 0 updates at this point isn't very good form especially since you have put some info out in this thread that backers would like to know.
Agreed. I've dumped Kickstarter projects for not enough information coming from the company involved.
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Agreed. I've dumped Kickstarter projects for not enough information coming from the company involved.
I agree as well we have gotten updated information here. But the info being on the kickstarter page is what really counts
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Got my new Kickstarter email. The discounts for people buying extras are very nice. And at $185, I can get an additional 3 full sets for 40% off. That's real nice, and something I'll take advantage of.
So for $362 and change, I get 4 full sets and 36 minis. Not perfect, but not bad at all.
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I agree as well we have gotten updated information here. But the info being on the kickstarter page is what really counts
Very good point. There is definitely a sweet spot for KS communication.
(I have also been involved in a Kickstarter that put out 4-5 updates a week - That was way too much!)
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Got my new Kickstarter email. The discounts for people buying extras are very nice. And at $185, I can get an additional 3 full sets for 40% off. That's real nice, and something I'll take advantage of.
So for $362 and change, I get 4 full sets and 36 minis. Not perfect, but not bad at all.
No not bad. Makes me feel better about pledging 185 now considering the discount ill get on more. I was hoping they would announce a stretch goal like they said they would last week.
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Brent Evans contacted Mike Noe with a proposal for a CAD production of ALL NINE LAM modes -- the mech-, air-mech, and pure air-modes of the the Phoenix Hawk, Wasp and Stinger LAMs using the special orthographic 3D drawings designed for use with a rapid prototype machine by their artist, Stephen Huda. These apparently could be produced ( because the orthographic drawings are completed ) for about $100.00 per each model ( i.e., about $900.00 ). Some work/fine-tuning to make them mold ready would need to be done by a human but basically a much lower cost and another goal was to ensure the correct scaling.
I would like to know how we go from this statement with the NINE Reseen LAM models, to this:
3D CAD is not a cheaper way to sculpt mechs. Using the free drawings from Steve Huda, we spent over $2,000 to have the Waneta ground mode printed. Multiply that by nine and $18,000 of the $25,000 goal goes to produce the masters.
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I would like to know how we go from this statement with the NINE Reseen LAM models, to this:
Considering the post you took it from November 2011. As I have already said earlier in this post and also in the 3085 LAM thread that the original test with the CAD did not turn out great. With no adjustments done to the CAD files, the Waneta came out in one piece with all of the 3D Printer lines on it. When the metal master was cleaned up, all of the details were washed away. So to do the LAM right, IWM had to find another company that could do the need adjustments and a higher quality printer. Plus the price given in that post were just a guess, considering the post was made before the test Waneta was made in early 2012.
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Posted from the Kickstarter
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Many of you have asked if you can buy additional copies of the WOB LAMs. The answer is absolutely yes. Quantities available and pricing will vary depending on the level of backing you choose.
Backer Level Quantity Price per Mech
$30 - $50 3 $8.80 (estimated 20% discount)
$70 - $100 6 $8.25 (estimated 25% discount)
$130 - $150 18 $7.70 (estimated 30% discount)
$185 - $275 27 $6.60 (estimated 40% discount)
$750 and up 54 $5.50 (estimated 50% discount)
Normal Iron Wind Shipping Rates (http://www.ironwindmetals.com/store/shipping.php) apply.
After the Project closes, we'll contact all of our backers and provide ordering details.
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Considering the post you took it from November 2011. As I have already said earlier in this post and also in the 3085 LAM thread that the original test with the CAD did not turn out great. With no adjustments done to the CAD files, the Waneta came out in one piece with all of the 3D Printer lines on it. When the metal master was cleaned up, all of the details were washed away. So to do the LAM right, IWM had to find another company that could do the need adjustments and a higher quality printer. Plus the price given in that post were just a guess, considering the post was made before the test Waneta was made in early 2012.
So everything that was posted about the 9 FAN funded LAMS turned out to just not be true?
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Posted from the Kickstarter
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Many of you have asked if you can buy additional copies of the WOB LAMs. The answer is absolutely yes. Quantities available and pricing will vary depending on the level of backing you choose.
Cool cool cool!
I am going to have an army of LAMs.
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Again, I think it would have been cool to include the Star League LAMs getting this done to them as stretch goals, but it's too late for that now. At this rate, if any stretch gaols were added, they probably wouldn't be met.
I'd actually say you should have had stretch goals to start out with to entice everyone do maybe donate just a little bit more in hopes of meeting the goals. Another thing some projects do is have a bit to the effect of, "donate $10 over the contribution level you want, and we'll send you a poster, or a shirt with our company logo on it"
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Again, I think it would have been cool to include the Star League LAMs getting this done to them as stretch goals, but it's too late for that now. At this rate, if any stretch gaols were added, they probably wouldn't be met.
I'd actually say you should have had stretch goals to start out with to entice everyone do maybe donate just a little bit more in hopes of meeting the goals. Another thing some projects do is have a bit to the effect of, "donate $10 over the contribution level you want, and we'll send you a poster, or a shirt with our company logo on it"
Stretch Goals have been determined and will be announced tomorrow after the final details are worked out.
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So everything that was posted about the 9 FAN funded LAMS turned out to just not be true?
In reference to doing them via the CAD very cheap from the old posts from 2011, yes. It was determined last year after the test Waneta that to do any LAM's from the CAD it was going to cost more.
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Supported this. I like IWM and even though I don't have much interest in these, I hope that this catches on, and they do more of these in the future.
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Just wanted to pass this on from the Kickstarter to the forum thread. There was a comment on the kickstarter about wanting all three of the LAM's in Ground Mode. If you pledge at the 70 dollar level (all 3 Modes of one LAM), if the project is backed, let us know that you want all three in Ground Mode.
Also, Just received the Waneta that I will be assembling to take some High Resolution pictures of for the Gallery and it is very nice looking. Images to be up this weekend.
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Stretch Goals have been determined and will be announced tomorrow after the final details are worked out.
Any update on these stretch goals?
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Any update on these stretch goals?
I hope we get them soon. We are getting down to the wire and there hasn't been much growth in the last week. I will be sorely disappointed if this fails.
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Just got the stretch goal email. We NEED to hit that 25,100!
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No, we need to hit $40,000. I'd like ALL the LAMs, please.
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Well, I was being conservative. I don't know if 40k is realistic.
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Now THAT is a stretch goal. I would love to get to 40k and get ALL the lams. I think we can make this happen!!
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I was holding off but now I can say ShutUpAndtakeMyMoney.png
Seriously, every group, forum, poster board, you can find, post on it to get the word out.
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Why wouldn't IWM put the reseen LAMs up first as part of the initial offering? Those are going to appeal to a much wider group and the funding from the fan funding project could have been applied or some deal offered to those original backers. Good luck making the 25k goal at all now, let alone getting to 40k in ten days. Had this been offered earlier, it might have been a realistic goal and I would have backed it myself.
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I was holding off but now I can say ShutUpAndtakeMyMoney.png
Seriously, every group, forum, poster board, you can find, post on it to get the word out.
(http://torwars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpeg)
FTFY
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Official Announcement of the Stretch Goals is on the Kickstarter Updates Page (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1050509756/battletech-word-of-blake-spectral-lams/posts/406384). Mike has already sent a email out before this announcement to all of the people who Fan Funded the Ground and Air modes of the Wasp, Stinger, Phoenix Hawk LAM's about how everything will be handled for them.
NOTE: Need to fix the part about the Shadow Hawk LAM having a Hybrid mode. I missed letting Marc know about that before the announcement.
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I kind of feel better in a sick way. This shows me what I suspected that the fun funding project didn't go as expected. I had sort of guessed that based on the numbers to produce these. That is why I was asking the questions. Hopefully my income tax return shows up in the next 10days it is going to be tight. Hopefully this happens. Honestly Being a long time CAV player and seeing for a decade what type of detail you can get this way I want IWM to see this as an option moving forward.
If it doesn't make it IWM might want to do a poll to see if people are waiting on income taxs they are coming back slower this year than in the past
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I kind of feel better in a sick way. This shows me what I suspected that the fun funding project didn't go as expected. I had sort of guessed that based on the numbers to produce these. That is why I was asking the questions. Hopefully my income tax return shows up in the next 10days it is going to be tight.
If the goal does not reach the 3085 LAMs, what was Fan Funded will still be done. The decision was made to add them as stretch goals to have them done from the CAD.
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If the goal does not reach the 3085 LAMs, what was Fan Funded will still be done. The decision was made to add them as stretch goals to have them done from the CAD.
Which is why I want them to make it. Because I much prefer CAD models
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Which is why I want them to make it. Because I much prefer CAD models
I can say they are very nice, I have a Waneta to get together for some good pictures this weekend. It is a very nice mini.
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If the goal does not reach the 3085 LAMs, what was Fan Funded will still be done. The decision was made to add them as stretch goals to have them done from the CAD.
To be honest, you should have had stretch goals up within a few days of launching the kickstarter, with 10 days left, there's much less growth on the project.
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To be honest, you should have had stretch goals up within a few days of launching the kickstarter, with 10 days left, there's much less growth on the project.
Owe, I am fully aware of that. This project has been a bit of a learning experience and I know I have learned a lot and so has Marc.
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Official Announcement of the Stretch Goals is on the Kickstarter Updates Page (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1050509756/battletech-word-of-blake-spectral-lams/posts/406384). Mike has already sent a email out before this announcement to all of the people who Fan Funded the Ground and Air modes of the Wasp, Stinger, Phoenix Hawk LAM's about how everything will be handled for them.
NOTE: Need to fix the part about the Shadow Hawk LAM having a Hybrid mode. I missed letting Marc know about that before the announcement.
I didn't get an email and I put a good bit toward those original LAMs (couple hundred)....
I hope this kickstarter succeeds I did have some concerns and dislikes I posted on another forum, but I've calmed down. Now I'm guessing the add on mechs in the update are only extras of the one you wanted (lets say you pledge 40 and choose one sculpt you can't just get the others with the cheaper price then can you?)
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So speck, if we get to say 30k or 35k and 2 or 3 of the SL era Lams are funded and produced in cad are the remaining 1 or 2 mechs going to have to be hand sculpted or will you do them in CAD maybe next year? It would just be a shame to get half done in CAD and the other half hand sculpted.
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These stretch goals are an exciting addition!
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Any chance for some LE Manei Domini dice and patch add-ons???
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I feel kinda bad about it, but I'm actually hoping this project fails so that it gets re-evaluated. Don't get me wrong, I love playing Blake and would love to get my hands on some LAMS, but 23$ a mini is just ludicrous for battletech. It's just amazing how pretty much every other miniatures company who runs a kickstarter seems to be able to provide their product for less than retail and they have same issues of getting molds done, along with usually a lot of sculpting still needing done. Worst case scenario I've seen them charging retail for them. Iron Wind on the other hand is the only company I've seen tack on a 50 % premium so that they can do what the rest of the industry has already moved to.
And that's without the dirtinesss of adding an already-funded project as a stretch goal. I'm not understanding the logic...they've received the money to get the sculpts done, they found a cheaper and faster way of getting them done....so they need more money to do it? They're shuffling around what was fan-funded already onto other projects...what happens if the Kickstarter fails? The Star League ones still get made right? Why is it even attached?
Something just doesn't smell right about the project.
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Any chance for some LE Manei Domini dice and patch add-ons???
I highly doubt it since they are all things total out side of what IWM normally does. There is something else we are looking at to add as well, but still working out details.
So speck, if we get to say 30k or 35k and 2 or 3 of the SL era Lams are funded and produced in cad are the remaining 1 or 2 mechs going to have to be hand sculpted or will you do them in CAD maybe next year? It would just be a shame to get half done in CAD and the other half hand sculpted.
I think it will come down to what the cost to do them in the CAD become. Cost savings have already occurred, since the first stretch goal is only $100 over to get all three modes of the Wasp LAM.
I didn't get an email and I put a good bit toward those original LAMs (couple hundred)....
I hope this kickstarter succeeds I did have some concerns and dislikes I posted on another forum, but I've calmed down. Now I'm guessing the add on mechs in the update are only extras of the one you wanted (lets say you pledge 40 and choose one sculpt you can't just get the others with the cheaper price then can you?)
Some how you must have been off the list of emails that Mike was given. PM me and I will get you a copy of the email. Same goes to anyone else who helped fund the 3085 LAMs if you did not receive the email from Mike.
I feel kinda bad about it, but I'm actually hoping this project fails so that it gets re-evaluated. Don't get me wrong, I love playing Blake and would love to get my hands on some LAMS, but 23$ a mini is just ludicrous for battletech. It's just amazing how pretty much every other miniatures company who runs a kickstarter seems to be able to provide their product for less than retail and they have same issues of getting molds done, along with usually a lot of sculpting still needing done. Worst case scenario I've seen them charging retail for them. Iron Wind on the other hand is the only company I've seen tack on a 50 % premium so that they can do what the rest of the industry has already moved to.
And that's without the dirtinesss of adding an already-funded project as a stretch goal. I'm not understanding the logic...they've received the money to get the sculpts done, they found a cheaper and faster way of getting them done....so they need more money to do it? They're shuffling around what was fan-funded already onto other projects...what happens if the Kickstarter fails? The Star League ones still get made right? Why is it even attached?
Something just doesn't smell right about the project.
The pricing for the Kickstarter as a whole has already been talked about through out this thread and why the price is on the higher side. The Road to the Spectral LAM's Kickstarter (http://www.ironwindmetals.com/d/node/1702) article on IWM goes into more information about what all is involved. But if you read the Update for Stretch Goals (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1050509756/battletech-word-of-blake-spectral-lams/posts/406384), it mentions due to some suggestions the cost to produce the CAD Master will be less. That is why the first Stretch Goal is only $100. It also breaks down which pledges will get the Wasp LAM.
It was mentioned over a year ago about the possibility of also doing the 3085 LAMs off of the CAD files, it all depended on the cost. The Fan Funding was for the Ground and Air modes of the Wasp, Stinger, and Phoenix Hawk and that would have been in the traditional way of sculpting minis. If you helped fund them, you would have received a email from Mike about it before hand. Its already been mentioned several times, that if the project fails to be backed, what was Fan Funded of the 3085 LAMs (ground and Air modes) will be done. Part of the reason they were selected to be a stretch goal, was to see if all modes could be done and the Shadow Hawk (which was not Fan Funded) as well. Plus there is a limited selection of what can be done of CAD files that IWM could get. As of now its all coming from Stephen Huda who is the artist of all of the LAM's so far.
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Frankly, I don't see what the problem is with the Star league LAMs being added as stretch goals, they are getting made regardless of what happens with this kickstarter, and since fan funding also gets you credit towards mini purchases, if you did fun a sculpt, you haven't lost anything.
The only problem I see is the possibility that we will meet only one or two stretch goals and end up with some LAMs hand sculpted and others CAD designed.
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I know that you guys say the cad sculpts/molds are more expensive. i just don't see how that justifies a 50% price premium when so many other companies have made the digital jump without doing so.
Why isn't the process to reduce the cost of the cad master being applied to the spectral lams? or if it is, why hasn't it been used to adjust the prices in the kickstarter to something more reasonable?
Personally I think it says a lot that you guys have been sitting on the fans money for over a year for the LAM sculpts without getting them done or at least started, until it conveniently lined up with another project you wanted money for.
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Why isn't the process to reduce the cost of the cad master being applied to the spectral lams? or if it is, why hasn't it been used to adjust the prices in the kickstarter to something more reasonable?
The reduced costs are what is allowing the first stretch goal to be only 100 dollars. After a Kickstarter is live and people have started to pledge, you can not go back and adjust pledges amounts and such. If the project reaches $25,100 the cost per mini will go down. If you look at the distribution of the Wasp LAM on the Stretch Goal update you will see that. The pledges also include shipping of the miniatures as well.
Personally I think it says a lot that you guys have been sitting on the fans money for over a year for the LAM sculpts without getting them done or at least started, until it conveniently lined up with another project you wanted money for.
If you looked at any of the recent posts in the 3085 LAM thread (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,2415.msg601109.html#msg601109), earlier in this thread, and if you funded the 3085 LAMs (got Mikes email). You would know that its not as if IWM was sitting on the Money. Its a matter of fitting everything into a sculpting schedule that also has to get General Releases done and last year we saw some additional sculptors added to help with the load. Plus all of the people who helped Fund the 3085 LAMs have had access to there Metal credit once the 3085 MkI LAMs were funded, as mentioned by Sawbones, some have already spent that credit. So its not like the Funders did not get anything out of the deal yet or had to wait until a mini was released to get there credit. Yes, the 3085 LAMs were behind other items on the Fan Funding todo list, but it was that was due to the possibility to have them done via the CAD, first mentioned over a year ago. When there are only so many items that have CAD available for Battletech minis and they happen to be mostly LAMs, the decision was to add them as Stretch Goals and include the Shadow Hawk LAM. That way all modes could be done for the three MkI's instead of just two modes that were funded.
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Speck you guys REALLY need to add images of the Star League LAMs... only a portion of Battletech fans know what they look like. You want to get attention of non battletech players as well.
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Maybe a stupid question but here goes, is it possible to just sculpt the parts of the LAMs and allow the buyer to assemble then into any mode?
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Maybe a stupid question but here goes, is it possible to just sculpt the parts of the LAMs and allow the buyer to assemble then into any mode?
I seem to remember suggesting this ages ago when we were trying to fund the SL LAMs. I would think that the air-mech mode can be made out of the parts from the mech (arms and legs) and fighter (body) modes for the most part.
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I think to do that would require way too many parts and blow up the cost. Not too mention trying to do a cad where all three modes work at the same time.
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Speck you guys REALLY need to add images of the Star League LAMs... only a portion of Battletech fans know what they look like. You want to get attention of non battletech players as well.
How about that.....
(https://www.ironwindmetals.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_LAMs_2013_IS_Showcase_002.jpg)
To see a larger image of it, go to the Stretch Goals 3085 LAM Gallery (https://www.ironwindmetals.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=1161)
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Nice collage of the SLDF Mk I's.
Would make a cool promotional poster. Signed copies for project backers ?
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Gorgeous. Just...gorgeous. The SLDF LAMs look so much better shaded properly. Kudos to Shuda!
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Nice collage of the SLDF Mk I's.
Would make a cool promotional poster. Signed copies for project backers ?
That would be an awesome add on. Id buy one. Im sure wed get more backers that arent interested in the minis but would like the poster
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How about that.....
(https://www.ironwindmetals.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_LAMs_2013_IS_Showcase_002.jpg)
To see a larger image of it, go to the Stretch Goals 3085 LAM Gallery (https://www.ironwindmetals.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=1161)
THAT is what I'm talking about now just add it on the front page of the Kickstarter for all to see.
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Iwm just posted an update adding some pretty sweet lam posters. You can get them on 70and up pledges or you can add them to lower pledges.
Check it out!!
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Newest Update (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1050509756/battletech-word-of-blake-spectral-lams/posts/408779) to the Kickstarter adds Spectral LAM posters to certain pledges and a options to add more of them if you want. There are three different types, Sample below
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/373289/posts/408779/image-213706-full.jpg?1361226037)
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Stingray - I had your real name and home address (as of two years ago) and sent that information to Mike Noe - I did not/do not have your e-mail address. I do not know if he is sending you a letter or not. Of the funders, you were the only one that I lacked an e-mail address for...
BirdofPrey - I simply missed your name as I typed in the 24 funders for which I had information (in between MrKiasu and MacPhail) - I apologize.
No conspiracy, nobody lying to you or deliberately omitting you from the process...
Rob
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Stingray - I had your real name and home address (as of two years ago) and sent that information to Mike Noe - I did not/do not have your e-mail address. I do not know if he is sending you a letter or not. Of the funders, you were the only one that I lacked an e-mail address for...
BirdofPrey - I simply missed your name as I typed in the 24 funders for which I had information (in between MrKiasu and MacPhail) - I apologize.
No conspiracy, nobody lying to you or deliberately omitting you from the process...
Rob
Its NP I thought you just had my old school email. I have been forwarded the email so all is good thank you!
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Just a question, why are all the options for all three of one type, or the air and mech version of a type but none for all of the hybrid versions? I really want all the hybrid versions, but I am forced to get models I don't want, or do it as an extra buy in later, and couldn't get all the hybrids(should this reach the third stretch goal which is unlikely at this point) taking the option that allows me to purchase just the hybrid mode.
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Just a question, why are all the options for all three of one type, or the air and mech version of a type but none for all of the hybrid versions? I really want all the hybrid versions, but I am forced to get models I don't want, or do it as an extra buy in later, and couldn't get all the hybrids(should this reach the third stretch goal which is unlikely at this point) taking the option that allows me to purchase just the hybrid mode.
If you pledge the 70 dollar level if it is successful as for all hybrid modes. There is a update on the Kickstarter about it.
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Additional Pictures (https://www.ironwindmetals.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=1160) in the Gallery of the Waneta.
Also, four days left to make it to the goal and fund the project.
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The new pics look cool.
Hopefully this is a success.
To the fencesitters, PLEDGE, don't wait. 2014 is a long way off.
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Oh wow those new pictures are really good. You can see a lot more detail than the old pictures. You should update the ones on the KS.
Come on guys pledge!. At the very least get yourself some cool posters. Hell if you pledge 30 for one mini, and buy 3 more at 8.80 you only end up spending around 14$ each which is average cost for BT minis.
BTW speck if someone pledges 30 and the wasp is unlocked can they choose a Wasp miniature (or any other of the SL ones that are unlocked.)?
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I would be willing to pledge if there was remotely the possibility of getting the 3085 LAMs out of this. That isn't going to happen unless Bill Gates pledges, and I am not interested in WoB LAMs sorry.
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To heck with the LAM, I want that GUN. [drool]
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I would be willing to pledge if there was remotely the possibility of getting the 3085 LAMs out of this. That isn't going to happen unless Bill Gates pledges, and I am not interested in WoB LAMs sorry.
Well your almost guaranteed to get at least one.
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Oh wow those new pictures are really good. You can see a lot more detail than the old pictures. You should update the ones on the KS.
Come on guys pledge!. At the very least get yourself some cool posters. Hell if you pledge 30 for one mini, and buy 3 more at 8.80 you only end up spending around 14$ each which is average cost for BT minis.
BTW speck if someone pledges 30 and the wasp is unlocked can they choose a Wasp miniature (or any other of the SL ones that are unlocked.)?
I don't see a problem with it, will have to check with Marc.
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Well your almost guaranteed to get at least one.
I don't want any of the WOB LAMs, I am only interested in the 3085 LAMs, one is not enough to support this project. If it had been part of the original Kickstart I think you would see a fully funded project, right now. And the WoB LAMs would have fit well as optional extras for those who wanted them.
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Well I for one would like to see this project succeed.
Are you done, Eziekel Crow?
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I'm of the same mindset as Ezekiel Crow, in that while I'm Hopeful that the Kickstarter succeeds, for IWM's sake, I also care NOTHING for the WOB LAMs. Thus, I'm not about to throw money away for something I don't want. Let's rein the Hostility in a little, shall we? ??? Some people prefer chocolate ice cream and care nothing for vanilla, for instance, but there's no Law that says we all HAVE to Like vanilla. If it fails, the worst that happens is they do the WOB LAMs the "traditional" way, and it takes longer for them to get released. On the other hand, they could always Restructure it and launch another one.
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Well as a person who doesn't care much for the Blakists I'll admit those are some sweet looking pics.
I'll have to talk with the missus about donating.
I may not use them, but I'm looking at it from two hopeful angles:
* I have minis my Blakist friends drool over for trade. :)
* If this kickstarter works well, maybe others could happen in the future.
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Well I for one would like to see this project succeed.
Are you done, Eziekel Crow?
Not remotely. 68 hours remaining.
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Not remotely. 68 hours remaining.
BOO
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IWM just added a pretty sweet reward for 185 backers and up. A $40 coupon to the web store. That brings down 12 count mini cost to just over 12. Still have my fingers crossed.
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Removed information about Update, waiting to hear back from Marc about it.
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I did my part, it was a tie between the Pwwka and the Waneta but the big gun of the Waneta won out.
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When I saw the coupon offer I went ahead and upped mine to the 185 donation level. I figure that I can use the 40 dollar coupon to get a gaggle of online exclusives such as Battle Armor which I can't otherwise get cheaply from other sources.
Then by the time the LAMs hit in June(ish) I should have caught up on my painting backlog and will be able to devote a bit more time than I normally do in getting these things table ready.
About the only part I'm very unhappy about is the months I'll have to wait until I see these things in my hands.
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So what, the $40 credit was retracted?
Edit: I see IWM is violating the Kickstart terms of service:
Prohibited rewards. Raffles, discounts, coupons, contests, and investment offers are prohibited. For more, please review our list of prohibited items and subject matter.
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Please note : I DO NOT WORK FOR Iron Wind Metals, Catalyst Game Labs, or Kickstarter. I'm just a gamer,mostly like you.
Ezekiel Crow,
Perhaps I didn't explain why I wish to see this project completed. So this is it:
1. The Spectrals are not the only reason to invest in this. The technology of 3-D printing is "The Wave of the Future". Funding this project opens up the prospect of other projects being green-lit using the new 3-D tech.
2. New units are always nice to play with. I like the Spectrals and the idea of having up to six different types of unit on the ground is rather cool. Besides six units make up a Level II. (HINT, HINT, For all of you Blakist fans.)
3. The SLDF LAMS done by CAD and 3-D printer are for me a bit of a goal to see as well. I can understand your disdain for the Spectrals, but I want the Wasp at the very least. Had I been in your shoes of fan-funding the SLDF LAMS I'd be not happy either. But for me, I missed that train so I'm more than happy to jump in on this one.
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Now if any of the three mentioned came knocking all I say is this : Different discussion alltogether.
I do not wish to cross any lines of conduct as set forth on this forum.
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I have to say I am disappointed. I really wanted to see all of the LAMs get funded with those stretch goals, but its looking like if it manages to be funded, it will only be barely so.
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Well only twenty hours to go, sadly I can't get in on this one. Piss pot poor this month after all my truck repair bills came due.
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$21,945 with 17 hours to go
:(
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I wonder what the plan is if they don't make there goal? Sculpt them the old fashioned way and release them next year sometime as a box set?
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Never mind figured out the question. I am supporting because I like the Waneta and frankly I love 3d printing on mechs I have for years. Looks like we need 43 people more at the $70 level we will see if it makes it.
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just popped $275 for the boys.
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Broke 25K with 8 hours to go.
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Wooohoooo :D O0 ;D O0 :D
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So we get a Wasp at least.
While it is extremely unlikely, I hope they can raise another $10k in the final hours; nothing against hand sculpted minis, but I don't think it will look quite right to have hand sculpted LAMs next to CAD sculpted ones (ignoring the shadow hawk, being a prototype it's not going to be fielded as much).
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Fine, I caved. Getting ground and Hybrid modes of all 4. If the stinger gets funded in the next 7 hours I'll pledge more.
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Speaking of which, does upping your pledge count as paying for additional minis?
It's kind of vauge on that subject. I notice somone asked about that a couple days ago in the comments and it hasn't been answered yet.
If it does count towards purchase of additonal minis, I might up my pledge for an extra wasp (and any other SL LAMs if they get funded)
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I just checked the Kickstarter. All I can say is;
"And I get a WASP!"
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Looks like it funded!. Hopefully we can get 4k more and get the Stinger.
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Would it be possible to count the LAM fan funding towards the stretch goals? After all that funding was for the SL LAMs which is what the stretch goals are for.
That would bring us to the goal for the Stinger LAM (on a side note, that would fund 6 sculpts, so you might also consider reorganizing the goals to get us the aerospace and mech modes of 3 SL LAMs rather than 3 modes of 2 LAMs)
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Would it be possible to count the LAM fan funding towards the stretch goals? After all that funding was for the SL LAMs which is what the stretch goals are for.
That would bring us to the goal for the Stinger LAM (on a side note, that would fund 6 sculpts, so you might also consider reorganizing the goals to get us the aerospace and mech modes of 3 SL LAMs rather than 3 modes of 2 LAMs)
I don't think they can count it directly towards the totals on Kickstarter. However, how much was it for the total of Fan Funding for the
Star League LAMS? 400 a miniature, 1200 a LAM set? If they are on the edge of one, they might be able to use the money to count
towards it..but I doubt they can use it to cover the whole set of them. The could, for example, say that they have the Wasp now, and if they get a little closer, use the Wasp and Stinger amounts to bump the Stinger...but they would have to get alot closer to be able to
do that for the Phoenix Hawk(would actually have to pass the Stinger Amount plus a couple K).
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Well at the moment we just need a bit of a push to the $30k level.
the funding for 2 of the LAMs would bring us almost to that level and the funding for all three would put us over, and as I have said, if we meet the goal for the Stinger LAM, they could sculpt the PHawk mech and aero modes in lieu of the airmech modes of the wasp and stinger which would fit in with what was originally paid for by the fan funding (IIRC, we raised $3800 to fund the mech and aero modes of the wasp stinger and phoenix hawk LAMs; we didn't raise anything for the airmech modes and the shadowhawk as they were deemed lower priority).
Edit: upon checking, we funded the mech and airmech modes. Regardless, it's still 6 sculpts which is what the stretch goal is, just a slight difference in what the sculpts specifically are., if we get extremely lucky and make it to 35 (including the fan funding) then that's 9 sculpts, or all modes of the 3 LAMs.
Of course my personal preference would be the mech and fighter modes, we can always kitbash the airmech from there; whatever happens, I think they should take into account the opinions of all those who donated (In other words, take a vote on which sculpts the stretch goals fund rather than just summarily ruling).
Edit 2: Since we didn't fund one of the modes for the main 3 SL LAMs or the Shadow hawk, that does leave the door open for a follow up kickstarter to fund those modes, and there would be less bad blood there due to them never having been funded. Stretch goals could be Scorpion LAM and microfighter sculpts.
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As of this posting we are at $30,499. If they add our $3800 to that then we only need $701, that might just be attainable at the rate we are going, and would be putting funds they already have toward the goal they were promised to.
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Funded at $30,122!
Congratulations to everyone who contributed, and to IWM for pulling off a successful kickstarter!
Paul
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We'd be higher but the guy who paid for the dinner pass pulled out last minute.
Now next time you do a kickstarter, don't end monday morning.
and have your stretch goals ready up front to drum up initial interest.
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Funded at $30,122!
Congratulations to everyone who contributed, and to IWM for pulling off a successful kickstarter!
Paul
Awesome! Very cool to see that we got to the Wasp and Stinger stretch goals too.
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This is excellent, I'm so glad the community pulled through! O0
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Project has been funded and two stretch goals have been met. More details will follow as information is passed on down to me.
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And I'll have the Stinger LAM as well. What a great and exciting project. Thanks Iron Wind Metals for what is shaping up to be a " Summer of LAM Love "
Respectfully, Ryumyo.
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I'm rather pleased to see it went from probably not making it all the way up to two of the stretch goals.
Though I have to ask if the e-coupon offer got pulled or if it wasn't how it's going to work. Will they be sent out to those who pledged within the next few weeks, or when the models are ready in 'June'?
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Im really happy it went as well as it did.
as for the coupons, The value of the coupons is around 4000$ for the 100 odd backers that would get them. Personally id rather see them activate the phawk stretch goal instead of the coupons ( as technically they arent allowed to issue coupons). This way each person that would get a coupon would get 3 extra minis and pretty much complete the lam collection outside of the shadowhawk( which kinda doesnt count as it never got out of prototype).
A bump in how many extra we can buy would be nice too.
Only issue is they never pulled coupon info from the actual ks page so that could be problem if people get mad.
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Offering $4000 in materials is not the same as funding $4000 in new product dev.
Paul
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Offering $4000 in materials is not the same as funding $4000 in new product dev.
Paul
Failing to meet an obligation from two years ago and making commitments about a project which IWM was in able to make good on(specifically the fact that they committed to a cost of $100 per sculpt, which apparently turned out to not be true), it would be the least IWM could do for the Fan Funders of the 3085 LAMs.
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As of this posting we are at $30,499. If they add our $3800 to that then we only need $701, that might just be attainable at the rate we are going, and would be putting funds they already have toward the goal they were promised to.
I do believe they stated that money was already accounted for with the first SL LAM being so cheap.
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Failing to meet an obligation from two years ago and making commitments about a project which IWM was in able to make good on(specifically the fact that they committed to a cost of $100 per sculpt, which apparently turned out to not be true), it would be the least IWM could do for the Fan Funders of the 3085 LAMs.
There were not such commitments to $100 per sculpt. That was all speculation and nothing set in stone by IWM.
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I almost saw, "Summer of SAM Love," up there, Ryumyo. I shouldn't be watching Flight of the Intruder and typing at the same time. I'm glad I jumped in when there was some time left.
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There were not such commitments to $100 per sculpt. That was all speculation and nothing set in stone by IWM.
maybe not by you, but it was made here on this forum whic organized the original Fan Funding. And was represented by Sawbones, the liaison between fan Funders and IWM. http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,12819.0.html
Regardless, it isn't unreasonable for IWM to add this commitment as a show of good faith, also in light of how IWM was informed about cost saving measures that IWM stated on the Kickstart were the cause for such a small gap between the initial funding and the first stretch goal. Really, the fan Funders have been waiting for how long, they deserve it!
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maybe not by you, but it was made here on this forum whic organized the original Fan Funding. And was represented by Sawbones, the liaison between fan Funders and IWM. http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,12819.0.html
That turned out to be a rather premature message that set some incorrect expectations.
Regardless, it isn't unreasonable for IWM to add this commitment as a show of good faith,
It's not unreasonable, but that's a far cry from seeing it as an obligation on their part.
Meanwhile, IWM has consistently shown it cares a great deal about its customers, and it goes to considerable lengths to respond to their customer's wishes.
Really, the fan Funders have been waiting for how long, they deserve it!
But since you (and I) aren't fan funders of those LAMs, do our opinions matter as much as theirs? I think not.
Paul
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Offering $4000 in materials is not the same as funding $4000 in new product dev.
Paul
I understand that. But KS does not allow coupons to be offered as rewards:
Prohibited Content:
Coupons, discounts, and cash-value gift cards
Because of this they could hold the funds until IWM agrees not to supply coupons to backers. They will need to compensate backers in some way since they never removed the coupon offer from the KS page before funding ended. Otherwise (and even if they do) backers will be able to get a refund since IWM did not/could not deliver what was promised. If more than 26 backers at the 185 level decide IWM cheated them by offering 40$ when they are not allowed to do that then this KS will drop back under 25k.
Worst case scenario they may need to relaunch the KS. I am just saying the issue needs to be addressed. I am sure they are communicating now with KS on whether or not they can go ahead with the coupon rewards and what they can offer if they can't.
I am not really worried about the Fan Funding. I didn't get a chance to get involved but I am sure they will do right by it. In the fan funding cases where there was leftover funds from a funded sculpt that money was allocated to another fan funded project.
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I am just saying the issue needs to be addressed.
We completely agree.
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Regardless, it isn't unreasonable for IWM to add this commitment as a show of good faith, also in light of how IWM was informed about cost saving measures that IWM stated on the Kickstart were the cause for such a small gap between the initial funding and the first stretch goal. Really, the fan Funders have been waiting for how long, they deserve it!
I was one of the people who funded the original LAMs and while 2 years is a long time and this Kickstarter did get on my nerves at first... Then I got the Email. IWMs really reached out (when they didn't need to) and helped settle things over with us. Some might not be happy still but I am.
Ezekiel Crow many of the original LAM funders are still on the forums, and we have our own voice. If we want to protest what happened here and the lack of 3085 LAMs 2 years later we can do it. If we need a third party making statements on our behalf we will ask for it. If you helped fund the originals then OK sorry I didn't know. If not we can talk for ourselves.
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Woohoo!
So glad to see this go through!
I had to wait until this last Friday to make my pledge, but happy that I did!
With or without the $40 coupon, it's still totally worth it! That, and with the help on my "special orders" I am (and always have been) a happy customer.
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Glad to make you laugh, Trajan Hammer.
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In my opinion this Kickstarter was somewhat poorly executed, but that's a learning curve that has to be tackled at some point. That being said, it was a good idea and I'm so glad it got funded! If IWM does another project via Kickstarter I am sure the lessons learned will be put to good use.
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To bad it ended while I was at work. I really wanted to add in, but today was payday, and I couldn't commit to anything until I knew(new job) what I was making after taxes, which also left me unable to add in.
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Ezekiel Crow many of the original LAM funders are still on the forums, and we have our own voice. If we want to protest what happened here and the lack of 3085 LAMs 2 years later we can do it. If we need a third party making statements on our behalf we will ask for it. If you helped fund the originals then OK sorry I didn't know. If not we can talk for ourselves.i
You don't know. Regardless, you wouldn't have gotten that email from IWM if I had not vocally expressed the lack of LAMs after the fan funding project ended two years ago. That message was only generated and sent out after the issue was expresses here on several other forums. So, you're welcome.
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To bad it ended while I was at work. I really wanted to add in, but today was payday, and I couldn't commit to anything until I knew(new job) what I was making after taxes, which also left me unable to add in.
Yea I think the ending time was bad. But I am sure IWM will learn a lot from this project.
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At least I still have a Lance of Unseen LAM's to play with. I will have a long wait for the new ones.
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You don't know. Regardless, you wouldn't have gotten that email from IWM if I had not vocally expressed the lack of LAMs after the fan funding project ended two years ago. That message was only generated and sent out after the issue was expresses here on several other forums. So, you're welcome.
Actually that had nothing to do with the email being sent out. It was sent out after the decision was made to include the 3085 LAM's as stretch goals for the project. To let all of the people who funded the LAM's would know what the plan was and how it would also affect them as financiers of the 3085 LAM's.
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Actually that had nothing to do with the email being sent out. It was sent out after the decision was made to include the 3085 LAM's as stretch goals for the project. To let all of the people who funded the LAM's would know what the plan was and how it would also affect them as financiers of the 3085 LAM's.
A claim you can make that cannot be proven or disproven, however timing is everything and I'll let that speak for itself.
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If only you knew how much it annoys me when someone unconnected else claims to be speaking on my behalf.
We are perfectly capable of speaking for ourselves, and, in fact, many of us who actually DID put money in for the Star League LAMs have weighed in on the subject of this kickstarter (Yes a couple do have negative feelings on this subject)
A claim you can make that cannot be proven or disproven, however timing is everything and I'll let that speak for itself.
and you can't prove anything beyond coincidence; correlation does not imply causation. What's your point?
I know you think you are trying to defend us, but from the comments you have posted, it looks more like you're just pissing on IWM.
EDIT: I am not alone in my sentiments; JPArbiter, who lead the project to get the SL LAMs sculpted and personally donated several hundred dollars toward the sculpts, has indicated to me that he is also offended by your efforts which he believes are not actually helping. Unfortunately, he is unable to post here to that effect (so he asked me to convey the message).
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[copper] I don't care for the tone of some of the posts here so get back on topic or take a warning. The issue is SL LAMs and how some folks were able to help get them sculpted, not people's personal issues. If this isn't doable by posters in this thread just walk away. [copper]
Paul
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So random question. Will the LAMs be released as they are done which may lead us to gettingsome sooner than others. Or will they wait until they have all of them ready for sale before delivering them to the donating parties?
Also any word on the coupon thing?
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I'm very glad that this managed to get funded. I wanted to contribute, but I am moving apartments soon. Regardless, can someone send my congratulations to the IWM team? I hope that I can contribute to the next Kickstarter project if it happens.
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The coupon confusion has been resolved. Well, at least to my satisfaction. I just got an email from Marc explaining what happened and a solution. There is no mass conspiracy or anything, it was just them trying to add a nice bonus and not knowing the site policy. Simple as that.
Wasp
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The coupon confusion has been resolved. Well, at least to my satisfaction. I just got an email from Marc explaining what happened and a solution. There is no mass conspiracy or anything, it was just them trying to add a nice bonus and not knowing the site policy. Simple as that.
Wasp
I just read my email and I agree this is a better solution than even the coupon.
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The coupon confusion has been resolved. Well, at least to my satisfaction. I just got an email from Marc explaining what happened and a solution. There is no mass conspiracy or anything, it was just them trying to add a nice bonus and not knowing the site policy. Simple as that.
Wasp
I am also happy with the way the coupon situation has been resolved.
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Like others, I was unable to contribute to this great cause, but I certainly hail all my B-Tech brothers who were able to. You've done us all a great favor. [applause]
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I am very impressed by the fan effort/contributions to make this "new thing" a success. On Saturday, 2/22/13, I was worried that I would need to pony up $4000+ to get the project funded and the first stretch goal, on Sunday night, I thought the amount would be $2000+ and then, oh joy of joys, I find that you lovely people had passed $27,000.00! Given all of the frustrations over the entire LAM issue, I was pleased to add what was needed to reach the second stretch goal (I don't have the cash for the 3rd goal). Kudos to all.
Several things:
1) My speculation/posting years ago that the CAD LAMs could be done for $100.00 each was erroneous and prematurely developed information given to me that I should have known better than to pass on (it really did seem too good to be true and it certainly turned out to be false). It was a good faith comment - if ill advised - and not an attempt to mislead anyone. Clearly, there was no advantage to IWM in that statement.
2) I own exactly one share of IWM stock (accepted with great pride as a sign of the appreciation for my efforts/contributions/friendships with/for IWM and its staff). I am NOT an IWM employee and my statements do not reflect any policy or decision-making capability. At best, I advise and support my friends and advocate for what I perceive the fans (including myself ;)) want and what will be of value to IWM. It grieves me when my words/efforts are used to impeach/question IWM's integrity as a business and as individuals. I suspect that I can fairly make the statement that no other miniatures company has been as responsive/accessible to the fan base as IWM. In fact, sometimes I am concerned that their degree of responsiveness is counterproductive as fan expectations are sometimes a bit too high. While I would dearly love for every Omni or major variant to be available (especially for the Dire Wolf), it is astonishing how many variants for the various Omnis/mechs/vehicles ARE available via the Omni project. Production costs, inventory and storage issues make such goals less than feasible (plus there is always a boatload of totally new stuff to be done). Has anyone noticed that IWM has been trying to make variants available for a variety of new releases (Coyotl, Lupus, Nyx, Ebony, the forthcoming Osteon, Cephalus, etc)? This was not done in the past. The costs are higher to do this but it is becoming a more common practice as IWM strives to please its customer base. Please understand the size of IWM versus, say, GW in which the latter has the capacity to produce the Tallarn nose-picking infantry pose #17 with water flask on the LEFT hip.
3) Finally, the last of the fan-funded miniatures are done are in the immediate queue for sculpting (by hand or CAD). The last ProtoMechs, the Zephyros, the Maxim, etc. are completed or nearly so. Many have written to add some new items in (microfighters, WarShips, vehicles, etc., etc.). I most certainly WANT all of the suggested projects to be done but I am NOT currently sure that I want to continue managing the fan-funding project. Maybe a few minor projcets here or there...we'll see.
Rob
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I think that due to his passion and commitment, Sawbones has unintentionally become a kind of public face of IWM, which certainly seems to have caused him as much grief and aggravation as it might have granted joy.
I also think that many of us owe a great debt of gratitude to him, not just for helping to make the KS project a great success, but also for helping to make the miniature experience more awesome. The BT community counts dozens of individuals among it that go the extra mile, and help make everything better in some way, and SB's definitely one of those who's put in a lot of time, effort, energy and resources to do just that.
I'm sorry that those efforts have become emotionally taxing. I'm certain that while your contributions would be missed, but I also believe you should not feel obligated to continue when it's stopped being fun. No one should disrespect you if you elect to spend your time elsewhere after all these years of service to the community.
Paul
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Indeed, thank you for all you have done Sawbones.
If you wish to retire, by all means, you deserve a break from the stress; I just hope you pass the mantle on to someone else, so fan funding can still continue.
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TLDR version: All is well and I'm content with the results.
Just got my email in regards to the coupon and am satisfied with how it's handled. Though of course there are a few questions to be answered as regards to what can be on the wish list and when they'll be sent out the entire matter is actually playing out much like how I expected it to when I first saw the promotion announcement.
Though I feel the Kickstarter got off to a rocky start and I hope any future endeavors will learn from that I am of the believe they did a acceptable job in listening to feedback and trying to incorporate as much of that as they could within the limitations involved.
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Thanks for the very kind words! I am still part of the community and will continue to do selected projects - maybe focused more on "oddities"/peripheral stuff (and the fleet scale stuff - I really do plan to pursue the requests for various microfighters and dropships). I do hope to regain the zeal (and the time) to participate more fully once again.
Rob
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I wish I could have afforded to have contributed to this kickstarter. I will look forward to buying the LAMs next year, though.
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I wish I could have afforded to have contributed to this kickstarter. I will look forward to buying the LAMs next year, though.
Same here, money is tight and I just couldn't get in where I wanted to. When they do get released I will be in the front of the line for the Spectral LAM's, or at least one example of each!
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So how is the printing of the LAMs proceeding?
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So how is the printing of the LAMs proceeding?
If you backed the kickstarter Marc sends out updates when there is anything new. Last I heard they have the other spectral LAM's ready to have printed just have to request some quotes from several places that can do it.
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I helped fund the original LAM project.
I helped fund the kickstarter for this project.
I am glad that IWM is interested in doing the LAMs, and I hope to see them come out sometime. I am patient.
And thanks to Sawbones for helping push the fan funding. That got us many designs we never would have seen otherwise. :)
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[metalhealth] [metalhealth] [metalhealth] I really wanted to pledge for this IWM Kickstarter ,BUT my pc got major sickness which was in the shop. I was having hard time trying to longin on Kickstarter so long story short I missed it. Well I did get in Robotech one but I really wanted IWM one. I'am stll banging my head on the wall on that one.
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Does anyone know when they are sending the survey out? Last I heard it was going to be the end of April. It is the middle of may now
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I think they generally wait till they are closer to the release window.
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I think they generally wait till they are closer to the release window.
Which is recommended by Kickstarter, as that way, they can make sure everything is shipped to the
right addresses. Some companies do theirs further out, for when the kickstarter actually involves production.
I would suspect that IWM is actually waiting for the molds to finished, etc..before sending out surveys.
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They really shouldn't send the surveys out until they are nearly ready to ship, but it is always nice to have the occasional progress update.
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The surveys are out. I filled mine out earlier today.
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I haven't received any surveys.
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I shelved my battletech minis for 7 years... and just got back into BT this last week.
I see I missed the KS campaign, are IWM going to sell these minis for a hihger price on their site or where these all KS exclusives?
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I shelved my battletech minis for 7 years... and just got back into BT this last week.
I see I missed the KS campaign, are IWM going to sell these minis for a hihger price on their site or where these all KS exclusives?
For starters, Welcome Back! O0 As for the WOB LAMs, if I recall correctly, they'll be available to the KS Supporters this year, then made available to the General Public some time next year. I can't remember if they'll be as General Distrubution or Online Exclusives though. :-\
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I haven't received any surveys.
I haven't either. Did I miss it, or have they not sent all of them out?
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I didn't get one yet, but I was fairly late getting into it. If they're going in pledge order, I will be in the last 25% or so...
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There was a survey?
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I should be watching my emails in a day or so I gather.
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I got the survey, it basically just confirms what you want done with your pledge.
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I got the survey, it basically just confirms what you want done with your pledge.
Did you just get it in the last few days, or some time ago?
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I got the e-mail on the 3rd and sent it in on the 4th (two days ago)
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Haven't gotten a survey myself yet but as I upped my pledge to the 185 level later on I suppose it'll come in another day or two.
For those who got it does it cover the 40 dollar 'wish list' and or if they're going to include the Phoenix Hawk and Shadow Hawk LAMs at all?
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I know at my level I got pick an extra WoB LAM and my choice of one of the Mk1 LAMs (Wap, Stinger, P-Hawk or S-Hawk)
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Still haven't gotten an email about this yet, and that's got me a wee bit nervous. But I suppose I can wait another week or so before I get panicky. :P
Honestly I'm more curious about how close they are to shipping out the minis. I'm also wondering if they'll be shipping everything all at once or will they be spreading out the releases for some reason.
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I talked to Marc about the survey emails and he said that he sent out a small batch last week as a test to get a feel for the responses and the system. The rest will be sent out this week.
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Speck, thanks for clarifying the situation!
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Groovy. I kind of figured the surveys would be done in batches but it's never to early to start fearing the worst. :)
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...it's never to early to start fearing the worst. :)
Ladies and gentlemen: The internet!
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Ladies and gentlemen: The internet!
Wait, how the hell did you just turn that in to an Aristocrats joke?! ;p
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....am I referencing something without knowing it?
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....am I referencing something without knowing it?
Ah. Well.
Do some research, it's NSFW though.
Make sure you see the Drew Carey one.
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You do realize, now every time I say "The Internet" I will have to snap my fingers simultaneously..... ;)
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You do realize, now every time I say "The Internet" I will have to snap my fingers simultaneously..... ;)
If the internet isn't the ultimate aristocrats joke, I don't know what is. Surely there's a spark of apprehension every time you initiate a search?
Paul
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If the internet isn't the ultimate aristocrats joke, I don't know what is. Surely there's a spark of apprehension every time you initiate a search?
Paul
Indeed.
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Just wanted to pass this on from the Kickstarter to the forum thread. There was a comment on the kickstarter about wanting all three of the LAM's in Ground Mode. If you pledge at the 70 dollar level (all 3 Modes of one LAM), if the project is backed, let us know that you want all three in Ground Mode.
Also, Just received the Waneta that I will be assembling to take some High Resolution pictures of for the Gallery and it is very nice looking. Images to be up this weekend.
Just got the survey but it lacks the option to get all the LAMs in ground mode. How do we request this?
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I got my survey in but it only mentioned the mechs included with the package i bought and did not mention the stretch goal stinger and wasp.
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I got my survey in but it only mentioned the mechs included with the package i bought and did not mention the stretch goal stinger and wasp.
I'm sure the fine folks at Iron Wind have it under control.
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Hmm...for those who got the survey already, what goes in the last line where it says 'required'? Do we list our $40 worth of minis there?
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Hmm...for those who got the survey already, what goes in the last line where it says 'required'? Do we list our $40 worth of minis there?
I didn't I e-mailed my order, and in the last line I noted the e-mail address I sent it from.
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What email did you use to contact them? I don t see one with the survey. I would like to see if I can just get ground versions of the non-wob LAMs instead?
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What email did you use to contact them? I don t see one with the survey. I would like to see if I can just get ground versions of the non-wob LAMs instead?
The one which was included in the survey: marc@ironwindmetals.com
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So has anyone received their 'free' metal yet that was possibly shipping before gencon? Ever since they made that announcement I've not seen any indicator that they managed to get things out the door before gencon.
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So has anyone received their 'free' metal yet that was possibly shipping before gencon? Ever since they made that announcement I've not seen any indicator that they managed to get things out the door before gencon.
No, but I asked to have it sent when the LAM's are ready.
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I picked mine up at Gen Con, as did two of my friends. Speck had a list with 20-25 people on it who were picking up the $40 stuff at Gen Con.
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When are the LAMs slated for general release? I couldn't go in on this kickstarter do to the end timing vs pay cycle issues. I will be buying several of the LAMs as soon as they are released.
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When are the LAMs slated for general release? I couldn't go in on this kickstarter do to the end timing vs pay cycle issues. I will be buying several of the LAMs as soon as they are released.
From the kickstarter "They will be available at Origins and Gencon 2014 and on our website in the fall of 2014" before that they will only be on the secondary market from those who bought in and eBay some off etc.
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Cool, save up and get a whole company of them at one time then.
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So another year for the LAMs that kinda sucks but what are you going to do.
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Buy more Aerospace units to add to my fighter wing, more tanks for my tank battalion, the Fortress Dropship, and save for their release.
And keep using my original LAM models.
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So another year for the LAMs that kinda sucks but what are you going to do.
Nothing, sadly. Hopefully the sculpts aren't too bad, given IWM's practice of "good enough."
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Speck, whats the current status on these? Also I remembe rseeing I have the option of buying X more of each model due to my sub level. When will we hear more on that?
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If you sponsored the Kickstarter you should be getting regularish emails from Mark.
Wasp
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I have responded to an email for the second time today the first time I responded to it was back in October. Have any of you backers started to get the project mechs yet some updates would seem to indicate some have but I have seen nothing at the $130 level or the extras I ordered?
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the PWWTA highbrid and aero went out at the end of November. I recieved my Highbrids, there was a mix up with my aero, but a couple of people have posted painted versions of theirs in the miniatures section so they did go out. Mark seemed to be fairly swamped with e-mails as it took me 3 attempts to get information on my missing aero. I'd give it a day or two, then try again.
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I've gotten squat so far, but perhaps they are waiting to make sure everything is ready before they ship it all together instead of piecemeal.
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I am at the $750 level and just got my free metal and kickstarter Aero, hybrid. I have not got the paid for extras yet, and there was a tiny mix up on my free metal part (one micro fighter for a different one). I know that it is taking longer than people would like (myself included). I have no doubt that it will all work out in the end and we (the BT players) will be better off for it.
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I should probably email him as well. I asked to have everything held until the end but have received my first LAM.
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I got one copy of the aeroand airmech Pwwkt.
Should have gotten two though, nothing else has come.
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Any questions regarding the LAM kickstarted email Marc, he is handling the project.
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Yep I know that except he does not respond to any emails i send him : /
I even check and clean out my spam box every day with hope.
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Yep I know that except he does not respond to any emails i send him : /
I even check and clean out my spam box every day with hope.
Give him time to get back to you, he is very busy between what he does at IWM and his day job.
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Got the survey, filled it out and completely forgot about it. Figured it would come when it came.
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Got the survey, filled it out and completely forgot about it. Figured it would come when it came.
That is mostly the philosophy I have taken, although, if a few items have started to get shipped, it would be nice to have a little more indication of what is shipping, and what isn't.
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I will apologize here at the start. I was part of the group that did the IS fan-funded LAMs, and I've been away around a year or so. I tried use the search function but I obviously suck at using it as I could find no answers. Would someone be kind enough to let me know what is going on with the IS LAMs. Are we waiting till fall for them to be released? As part of the original fanfunders can I get a set earlier than that? Any help would be greatly helped.
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I will apologize here at the start. I was part of the group that did the IS fan-funded LAMs, and I've been away around a year or so. I tried use the search function but I obviously suck at using it as I could find no answers. Would someone be kind enough to let me know what is going on with the IS LAMs. Are we waiting till fall for them to be released? As part of the original fanfunders can I get a set earlier than that? Any help would be greatly helped.
I will fill you in on what I know they have released to Kickstater backers one Spectral LAM in its LAM and Fighter mode so far, the rest are still being worked on. I do not know what state they are in or when they will be released. I do not know when they will get to the IS or if you can get them before they are official released. They are making all modes of all four IS LAM's. Hope that helps for more info would have to come from someone who knows more than I do.
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I think the IS LaMs were unlocked as bonus' depending on the level - can someone detail what that looks like to me, for some reason I am always confused by it.
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Only the Wasp and Stinger LAMs were funded.
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All 3 Modes of all three Spectral LAMs, String, Wasp, Shadow Hawk (Only 2 modes), and Phoenix Hawk will be made with the Funds from the Kickstarter and what was raised from the Fan Funding of the 3085 LAM's.
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Any news on this? Last update was Feb 8th.
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Any news on this? Last update was Feb 8th.
Any updates are done by Marc via the kickstarter project update. I know last few week they have been busy getting ready for move and then doing the move. Hopefully they are settled and Marc will have a new update.
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How do we get ahold of marc for info on ordering additional units as per our donation level?
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How do we get ahold of marc for info on ordering additional units as per our donation level?
via his email, PM me for it
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When will we see the invoices for additional Wasps and Stinger LAMs? I haven't received mine yet
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When will we see the invoices for additional Wasps and Stinger LAMs? I haven't received mine yet
Did you contact Marc directly about it? He is the one handling the Kickstarter. If you need his email PM me.
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When will this be ready? At least for the general population.
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When will this be ready? At least for the general population.
Given it is a kickstarter? 6 months to a year later then they expected.
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That quick?
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I hope so, would like to get me a couple.
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Yay so i was just billed for the extras that i emailed to Marc way back last year. I had begun to think he never got the email for the requested extras but since they just billed me I feel much better.
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I don't think I requested anything other than spectral LAMs, but I have not yet received anything. (Meaning no wasp, Stinger, etc.) It sounds like a lot of that stuff has been shipped out already; should I be contacting somebody at IWM to ask what is going on, or should I continue to sit tight?
The time line for shipping and fulfillment seems a little fuzzy to me. (It's entirely possible that I have not been paying enough attention.)
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I don't think I requested anything other than spectral LAMs, but I have not yet received anything. (Meaning no wasp, Stinger, etc.) It sounds like a lot of that stuff has been shipped out already; should I be contacting somebody at IWM to ask what is going on, or should I continue to sit tight?
The time line for shipping and fulfillment seems a little fuzzy to me. (It's entirely possible that I have not been paying enough attention.)
Reach out to Marc for any of your questions.
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Reach out to Marc for any of your questions.
Thanks Speck. Marc cleared up all my questions. Everything is moving along correctly.
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Sorry if this has been asked or is covered elsewhere, but have the original 3 LAMs been sent out yet? I ordered the Waneta ages ago and have not heard a peep, or I simply missed something important.
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Sorry if this has been asked or is covered elsewhere, but have the original 3 LAMs been sent out yet? I ordered the Waneta ages ago and have not heard a peep, or I simply missed something important.
Contact Marc for any questions or issues.
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Contact Marc for any questions or issues.
How does one contact Marc?
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I believe it is marc@ironwind...
For what it's worth, when I pinged him last week, he told me that none of the Wanetas had shipped yet. (He did not say when they would.)
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I'd just be happy having a couple of Mark I Wasps or Stingers in Airmech mode. Thats all i really need.
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So I got a little package in the mail today while i was watching Luther on Hulu.
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2931/14024058234_f48ff6a87e_c.jpg)
I have not cleaned or glued yet.
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That is some nice packaging.
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I'm still assembling my Stinger Hybrid.
Overall it is very nice, I can't wait to have it speed by my group's forces on the table someday.
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My Stinger also arrived this week. I'll get around to assembling it when I can.
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I'm still assembling my Stinger Hybrid.
Overall it is very nice, I can't wait to have it speed by my group's forces on the table someday.
*starts stocking up on flak ammo*
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Here is a picture flicker stream of my progress so far.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/drufause/sets/72157644381368263/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/drufause/sets/72157644381368263/)
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that makes me happy to see the wasp built up.
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Can't wait till I can buy many!
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I got my package in the mail while MrsArbiter and I were away from the house.
the Stinger and Wasp are GORGEOUS!
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I finished assembling my Stinger LAM last night. The thing is not easy to put together, but it's real pretty when it's built up. Now on to paint...
(The hex base did not come with the LAM.)
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Wonder if anyone can do a comparison between the new LAMs and the Unseen ones...
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Wonder if anyone can do a comparison between the new LAMs and the Unseen ones...
The new ones are much bigger. If nobody gets to it before hand, I can take a picture of my stinger next to one of the unseen stingers or wasps. (We'll see what I find first)
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I hope they get to open market soon...
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I put mine together before a game Monday to show them off. Sorry, no pics.
However....whomever designed the hands to be separate from the wrists, and the sprues for them needs to be locked in a room full of hungry , flatulent, badgers and not allowed out until they've written 'I will not make fiddly parts so darn easy to mangle' 1000 times.
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Any news about when they’ll hit the market? I can’t wait to build my next Lvl 2 of LAMs.
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Any news about when they’ll hit the market? I can’t wait to build my next Lvl 2 of LAMs.
This! :D
I always was a sucker for LAMs. Doesn't matter if they were retconed out or overprices or what. They are just so darn cool!
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Got to be honest. I have lost a lot of respect for Iron wind over this. I just can't believe they haven't finished this project yet. It isn't like making Mech minis like this is a new process. Honestly I don't understand the thinking of getting the designs they decided to add even they they were not funded finished before the designs that actually got funded get done.
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Got to be honest. I have lost a lot of respect for Iron wind over this. I just can't believe they haven't finished this project yet. It isn't like making Mech minis like this is a new process. Honestly I don't understand the thinking of getting the designs they decided to add even they they were not funded finished before the designs that actually got funded get done.
Well the last few designs that need to be printed should be at IWM by now. Reasoning that some of the stretch goals minis got done first was due to when the finishing touches to the cad was done and if they had parts that need thickened and then reprinted. Then they got behind during the last three months from con season, when they are slammed with orders from contract casting customers to have in time for gen con. Also some of our own con specials did not get to IWM to be molded until early August. Now that con season is passed and they get September releases out the last few LAM's will be completed and sent.
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Well the last few designs that need to be printed should be at IWM by now. Reasoning that some of the stretch goals minis got done first was due to when the finishing touches to the cad was done and if they had parts that need thickened and then reprinted. Then they got behind during the last three months from con season, when they are slammed with orders from contract casting customers to have in time for gen con. Also some of our own con specials did not get to IWM to be molded until early August. Now that con season is passed and they get September releases out the last few LAM's will be completed and sent.
Because September releases should be more important than a product that money was taken and was supose to be released over a year ago. I got to be honest Normal buisness reasons are normally a good excuse except when you have already taken peoples money and suppose to have had a product out before con season of 2013. Again take what I say with a grain of salt as I tend to be direct.
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It's not uncommon for projects to miss their stated deadline.
Especially consider this was supposed to be something of a feasibility study.
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It's not uncommon for projects to miss their stated deadline.
Especially consider this was supposed to be something of a feasibility study.
I am aware the Kickstarter projects often get delayed. But it isn't like they are using a new process to create these things. CAD and 3D printing has been used now for minis just like this for over a decade. Really there is not a exceptable reason to be this far behind.
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It's not uncommon for projects to miss their stated deadline.
Especially consider this was supposed to be something of a feasibility study.
Well no, but, to be fair to General308, there is a difference between 3-6 months of "regular slippage", and 14+ months late.
If this was run by a new company I might start worrying about whether delivery would happen at all after a year or so. This project hasn't bothered me simply because I know IWM, and I know they will ship everything, eventually.
I have buckets of lead to paint, so I'm in no hurry, but I do understand the concerns.
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Molds for all remaining LAM's are done. Should know more tomorrow once they schedule production.
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Molds for all remaining LAM's are done. Should know more tomorrow once they schedule production.
Once they are done and the kickstarter participants get their promised minis, do you have an estimate as to when they will be up for general sale?
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Well no, but, to be fair to General308, there is a difference between 3-6 months of "regular slippage", and 14+ months late.
If this was run by a new company I might start worrying about whether delivery would happen at all after a year or so. This project hasn't bothered me simply because I know IWM, and I know they will ship everything, eventually.
I have buckets of lead to paint, so I'm in no hurry, but I do understand the concerns.
This is my sentiment exactly. I'm disappointed that it's taking so long to get the product, but, IWM is a proven company and I am confident they will deliver eventually.
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Molds for all remaining LAM's are done. Should know more tomorrow once they schedule production.
Here the Cricketts...........Speck I apreciate what you do and know you have no control over this project. All I will say is IWM barely got this funded and with the track record they have created for themselfs on this good luck to them getting funding in the future if they try.
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I'm not sure funding a kickstarter with 20% extra is barely funded. It is wildly overfunded like some are.
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I'm not sure funding a kickstarter with 20% extra is barely funded. It is wildly overfunded like some are.
It did end up there. But it got to the funding level and the extra very very late in the project. It almost didn't make it. IWM own words "I just wanted to say thank you for your support and encouragement, especially the last few days as we came down to the wire. "
Frankly I hate it has come to this. They have really created a situation were I don't think I would support them again. Honestly I could have dealt with a delay. In fact I didn't even get agervated about it till a few months ago. But over a year late on producing mechs in this method just isn't exceptable. Anybody who thinks it is is kidding them selfs.
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As soon as I have an update I will posted it, been busy last few days with family in town so I have not been on my computer much.
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So is that project done?
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I want to see the promised pictures of klarg1's painted LAM :) or was it posted in another thread?
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I want to see the promised pictures of klarg1's painted LAM :) or was it posted in another thread?
Actually, it got sucked into a sooper-seekrit side project, and I forgot about posting it.
I'll see if I can finish that up and post it soon.
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Just figured I would point out that IWM still hasn't delivered. The only thing worse is there lack of comunication. I am this close to never buying IWM products again because once IWM has your money they seem to be in no hurry.
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You got that right, still waiting on the original LAM's...
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Kickstarter Backers got them, myself included. the P Hawk is pending.
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Kickstarter Backers got them, myself included. the P Hawk is pending.
No they haven't. I still haven't got any of my stuff and the last update said they were a week away from being able to ship that was a month ago. Because the comunicate like crap with there backers I can't tell you were things stand. Because IWM has done a crap job taking care of there backers. Yes I am a backer.
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Have you tried sending Mike Noe an email? May want to, he will get it resolved for you, or at least get you an answer ASAP.
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Have you tried sending Mike Noe an email? May want to, he will get it resolved for you, or at least get you an answer ASAP.
I am in the same boat a most the people on the Kickstarter right now. IWM has just not taken care of it's backers. Even JPArbiter who tries to claim he got his stuff in his own post points out he still hasn't got all his stuff. IWM has just proven to be a bad company to back.
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I am in the same boat a most the people on the Kickstarter right now. IWM has just not taken care of it's backers. Even JPArbiter who tries to claim he got his stuff in his own post points out he still hasn't got all his stuff. IWM has just proven to be a bad company to back.
Ok, ignore the question. Seems to me that if you don't contact someone that CAN resolve it for you, you'll find no resolution.
It's very possible Mike doesn't know of the problem. He's a VERY busy person running IWM, and he delegates stuff to other people, so those other people don't tell him there's a problem...guess what, he won't know.
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Well I for one HAVE sent emails that have gone unresponded to for months.
IWM does seem to be doing a terrible job at communicating.
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Ok, ignore the question. Seems to me that if you don't contact someone that CAN resolve it for you, you'll find no resolution.
It's very possible Mike doesn't know of the problem. He's a VERY busy person running IWM, and he delegates stuff to other people, so those other people don't tell him there's a problem...guess what, he won't know.
Right Mike doesn't know his Kickstarter is almost a year and a half late on being delivered. It isn't delivered because last time IWM comunicated with there backers it wasn't finished. It is time for the IWM fanboys to except that IWM has not done right by people who backed there project.
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Don't forget General308 that IWM had to move their whole factory to another location. Setup time is downtime for production purposes and working the bugs out of the line takes extra time. I'm waiting for mine too but I understand these things can happen. Prototyping something also means getting things right or revised, plus IWM has to work " out-of-house " for the masters.
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Don't forget General308 that IWM had to move their whole factory to another location. Setup time is downtime for production purposes and working the bugs out of the line takes extra time. I'm waiting for mine too but I understand these things can happen. Prototyping something also means getting things right or revised, plus IWM has to work " out-of-house " for the masters.
Them relocating is no excuse for them being a year and a half late. Didn't stop them from getting there Con exclusives out did it. Contrary to IWM's claims prototyping minis isn't know. Companies started building mech minis this way over a decade ago. What really burns my chaps on this is the backers all wanted to support them so bad we paid over retail by a lot to support this project. They feel they can just take all they want is because they feel the backers will not call a spade a spade. IWM has craped on it's backers.
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Well I for one HAVE sent emails that have gone unresponded to for months.
IWM does seem to be doing a terrible job at communicating.
But have you contacted Mike? He's the head of IWM...try him.
Right Mike doesn't know his Kickstarter is almost a year and a half late on being delivered. It isn't delivered because last time IWM comunicated with there backers it wasn't finished. It is time for the IWM fanboys to except that IWM has not done right by people who backed there project.
I'm not disagreeing that they aren't doing what they said they would, and that their communication could be horrible about this Kickstarter (I was not a part of it so I honestly don't know)...what I'm saying is try contacting Mike...explain the situation...he will resolve it for you or at least get you some sort of an answer.
As far as being a "fan boy", ummm...aren't we all if we are buying their items? If you weren't, you wouldn't buy their products, which in turn support this game.
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But have you contacted Mike? He's the head of IWM...try him.
I'm not disagreeing that they aren't doing what they said they would, and that their communication could be horrible about this Kickstarter (I was not a part of it so I honestly don't know)...what I'm saying is try contacting Mike...explain the situation...he will resolve it for you or at least get you some sort of an answer.
As far as being a "fan boy", ummm...aren't we all if we are buying their items? If you weren't, you wouldn't buy their products, which in turn support this game.
i Folks
All of the remaining Mechs are in casting except for the Waneta Aero and Mech - which should be there early next week. We will start packing this week and hope to be done by the end of next week.
I'll send Paypal invoices next week to those of you who asked for additional copies.
If you have moved since you supported this Kickstarter, please send current mailing address to marc@ironwindmetals.com
Once everything is ready to ship, I'll post an update here.
Thanks
Marc
Yes I have emailed IWM and gotten no response. The last they told there backers was the 8th of last month "
So as of the last the backers herd a month ago. 1) They still hadn't finished all the mechs and 2) They were expecting to be done a week after they made that post. They have decided to give no updates since then. Delays happen. But these delays are no reasonable given the scope of the project. They lack of comunication from IWM is just unproessional.
You are right we are all fanboys. But I am not going to support a company that takes my money when I pay basicly double what retail will be for the product and then be ignored. Like I said they took my money and then decided to complete every other project they wanted to do before this one. I will no longer support a company like that.
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General308, you are NOT answering the question...so I will post it one more time...
Have you emailed Mike Noe?
If not...then you need to, otherwise you will get nowhere.
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General308, you are NOT answering the question...so I will post it one more time...
Have you emailed Mike Noe?
If not...then you need to, otherwise you will get nowhere.
I have emailed the address on IWM's web site if that is his or not I don't know. Either way it isn't going to fix the problem of them being done or not. See that is the problem they just haven't finished the project and if anyone belives that Noe doesn't know that they are crazy.
As an update I have found his Email address on the page and have sent him an email as well.
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I was part of the original LAM's fanfunding got an e-mail a long time ago for an address for shipping. Since then nothing and yes I've reached out multiple times and gotten nowhere. Kind of lousy if you ask me. The only one who has ever answered me was Speck and I first talked to him three months back and last a month ago. Still nothing.
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I was part of the original LAM's fanfunding got an e-mail a long time ago for an address for shipping. Since then nothing and yes I've reached out multiple times and gotten nowhere. Kind of lousy if you ask me. The only one who has ever answered me was Speck and I first talked to him three months back and last a month ago. Still nothing.
IWM= Outrider Hobbies.
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Well IWM is at least a reputable company.
I haven't had any trouble with ordering stuff from their webstore
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There webstore has never been a problem.
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IWM= Outrider Hobbies.
Wow.
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IWM= Outrider Hobbies.
Seriously? that is a very serious accusation. you may want to step that back a bit if you have ANY hope at all of retaining some credibility. I get that you are upset. I get that it seemed fishy that despite the Fan Funding Initiative for the MK Is that they also used the MK Is as stretch goals for the kickstarter (lest we remember, I LED that initiative, and I was irritated by that.) and I get that this has not gone as fast as anyone has liked.
But a comparison to Outrider is just nuts on the face of it. IWM has a pedigree, is expanding despite a tough niche marketplace, and has nominally a very positive customer service record. The Nature of this project, (with the sheer number of minis (20) and the method of their production [3D Printing Masters]) on top of their every day business which is not just Battletech but also outsourcing Pewter for other companies as well as their own Ral Partha Legacy Minis... Production delays can and will happen.
Outrider was a Bi Polar Dude in Arizona who spent way to much on a laser cutter and trying to buy cheap Chinese bags to resell.
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Seriously? that is a very serious accusation. you may want to step that back a bit if you have ANY hope at all of retaining some credibility. I get that you are upset. I get that it seemed fishy that despite the Fan Funding Initiative for the MK Is that they also used the MK Is as stretch goals for the kickstarter (lest we remember, I LED that initiative, and I was irritated by that.) and I get that this has not gone as fast as anyone has liked.
But a comparison to Outrider is just nuts on the face of it. IWM has a pedigree, is expanding despite a tough niche marketplace, and has nominally a very positive customer service record. The Nature of this project, (with the sheer number of minis (20) and the method of their production [3D Printing Masters]) on top of their every day business which is not just Battletech but also outsourcing Pewter for other companies as well as their own Ral Partha Legacy Minis... Production delays can and will happen.
Outrider was a Bi Polar Dude in Arizona who spent way to much on a laser cutter and trying to buy cheap Chinese bags to resell.
It is because of IWM's pedigree that I find they way they have done this Kickstarter so bad. In fact to me because of the Pedigree they way they have handled this Kickstarter is worse than Outrider. Outrider was a new company so dealing with them was gamble. IWM has experience with what they are doing so this should not happen. I wasn't going to bring that IWM's strech goals were for something they had already taken money to produce. So you are right that was fishy (your word)
The production methods they are useing are not new minis have been made this way for well over a decade so that isn't a good excuse for the delay either. I do however agree that production delays do happen but a delay over well over a year isn't exceptable. Do you think if they took $30k from one of their outsourcing clients they would be a year and three months late? Of course they wouldn't because if they did that to there clients they wouldn't stay in buisness.
There is were the problem lies they took $30k from Battletech players and because battletech players myself as well have been willing to give them a pass they have no reason to take care of us right on this project. That is how I feel about this IWM has damaged themselfs by how they have treated me. Honestly based on how they have treated I wouldn't back them on another Kickstarter. They have caused there Kickstarter rep to be poor in my eyes.
Now all that said they have updated the kickstarter page today. Shipping is suppose to start the week of October 13th. I am not an unfair person so I want to point out they look like they are going to finally ship.
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The production methods they are useing are not new minis have been made this way for well over a decade so that isn't a good excuse for the delay either.
I just want to ask...is it a new process for IWM? I mean, other companies may be using this same process...but has IWM used it before? If not, then of course they have to figure it out for themselves. (Yes, they can hire someone who knows what they are doing. But! There would still be new bugs that may be unique to them that they would have to figure out.
(I mean, even if you start doing something that everyone else has been doing for a long time, get someone that knows how to do it to help you, you are basically, if not actually, starting from scratch.)
All that said, from everything I've seen, yes, IWM should have done a better job of communicating with everyone that was involved. (I am not, by the way. Simply haven't the money to do either the fan funding or the kickstarter. Seriously wish I could have. Have just simply had nothing but positive experiences with IWM.) Bad communication is really the number one sin of customer service.
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To my knowledge, IWM never used 3D prototyping before the LAM project.
Their original plan for instance was to use traditional methods to mold the Star League LAMs.
I remember their interest when they found out that Stephen Huda would give them his 3D files so they could print them out. They thought that sounded really nice and would make production faster and easier.
Looking back on it...wow.
I know of exactly one line at IWM that was 3d prototyped and placed into production. Galactic. The owner of that property had Shapeways print his files out, and he sent those results to IWM so they could make them into molds. Those are ships, not mechs. And mechs with all their fiddly bits bring a whole new realm of complexity into the issue.
I know that the 3d side of the LAM project has involved a major learning curve for IWM.
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Iwm is not infallable in this case. As yin said thier communication has been below my expectations. The Pwwka, wasp, and stinger LAMs in my posession though show that this is being worked on and there is not a total "failure to deliver."
There were missteps in this process, missteps i expect to be corrected. But some of the more outlandish accusations i have seen on this thread are coming from the wrong mindset for what kickstarter is.
Kickstarter is crowdfunding, not a pre order service, and not an investor house. To treat it as either will only result in heartbreak.
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It is because of IWM's pedigree that I find they way they have done this Kickstarter so bad. In fact to me because of the Pedigree they way they have handled this Kickstarter is worse than Outrider. Outrider was a new company so dealing with them was gamble. IWM has experience with what they are doing so this should not happen. I wasn't going to bring that IWM's strech goals were for something they had already taken money to produce. So you are right that was fishy (your word)
The production methods they are useing are not new minis have been made this way for well over a decade so that isn't a good excuse for the delay either. I do however agree that production delays do happen but a delay over well over a year isn't exceptable. Do you think if they took $30k from one of their outsourcing clients they would be a year and three months late? Of course they wouldn't because if they did that to there clients they wouldn't stay in buisness.
There is were the problem lies they took $30k from Battletech players and because battletech players myself as well have been willing to give them a pass they have no reason to take care of us right on this project. That is how I feel about this IWM has damaged themselfs by how they have treated me. Honestly based on how they have treated I wouldn't back them on another Kickstarter. They have caused there Kickstarter rep to be poor in my eyes.
Now all that said they have updated the kickstarter page today. Shipping is suppose to start the week of October 13th. I am not an unfair person so I want to point out they look like they are going to finally ship.
Actually I have had nothing but non communication from IWM. Seriously according to my records i have gotten 2 invoices from them which I have paid each within 24 hours of getting. They shipped me my first batch of mechs and I would assume I am getting the next batch soon as I i had to pay more shipping. Hopefully they ship everything I am due as they have no clue how to communicate with their customer. Best case scenario would be for Reaper to buy them out at this point. I sent 14 emails to the company both based off info on their company website, and response to the direct communications I have gotten from them. None of my questions were ever answered directly to me. The only emails I got directly to me were the two billing emails (which appear to be accurate) but I never got confirmation they got my extras order correct till they decided to bill me for it. I can deal with a project being late but not having a reliable 2 way communication is reprehensible. At this point they could come up with a new Kick-Starter that prints money and releases personal endorphin's and I will wait for the retail product to be on Amazon as at least they have customer support.
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Generally speaking I don't have problems with IWM's. All but one of the fanfundings went without a hitch and my orders have always been problem free. Even the one time I did have a problem they jumped on it fast and fixed it quick. So far its only been the Fanfunded LAM's that's been an issue and Speck is dealing with it (I hope) and that just seems to be a communication issue.
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not only did I get the Pwkka Aerospace and Airmech Minis, and the Wasp and Stingers overall, I JUST got an invoice for the Yurei and Waneta tri modes and the Pwwka mech mode.
I say progress is being made.
I am starting to think Generalis an outlier, an outlier with a legit gripe don't get me wrong but an outlier.
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Yes, there have been some communication issues with the kickstarter and I can only help so much since I was not directly involved with the planning or running of the kickstarter. Any time someone has brought up a issue to me I have passed it on and have pushed for more updates about progress being made. I will continue to do so until everything is shipped out, which according to the last update by Marc will be next week. If you currently have a issue or waiting to hear back about something with your reward, PM me the details and I will send it up the chain and help in anyway that I can. But bear in mind that I am in another state so am dependent on waiting to hear back from Mike about issues sent to him. Depending on what is going on at the factory or if he needs to wait for Marc to be there, it could be a few days for me to hear back.
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Yes, there have been some communication issues with the kickstarter and I can only help so much since I was not directly involved with the planning or running of the kickstarter. Any time someone has brought up a issue to me I have passed it on and have pushed for more updates about progress being made. I will continue to do so until everything is shipped out, which according to the last update by Marc will be next week. If you currently have a issue or waiting to hear back about something with your reward, PM me the details and I will send it up the chain and help in anyway that I can. But bear in mind that I am in another state so am dependent on waiting to hear back from Mike about issues sent to him. Depending on what is going on at the factory or if he needs to wait for Marc to be there, it could be a few days for me to hear back.
I think we all appreciate everything you do for all of us on the board Speck. Thank you.
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With regards to a company's pedigree and speed of getting a kickstarter to fulfillment:
Steve Jackson Games and Ogre.
Onyx Path(which is effectively White Wolf) and Werewolf 20th Anniversary Edition and Exalted 3rd Edition
Both strong pedigrees. And got things way late.
The difference, of course, is communication..and this has made me quite glad I did not support this
kickstarter. It sounds like it was poorly run.
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Yes, there have been some communication issues with the kickstarter and I can only help so much since I was not directly involved with the planning or running of the kickstarter. Any time someone has brought up a issue to me I have passed it on and have pushed for more updates about progress being made. I will continue to do so until everything is shipped out, which according to the last update by Marc will be next week. If you currently have a issue or waiting to hear back about something with your reward, PM me the details and I will send it up the chain and help in anyway that I can. But bear in mind that I am in another state so am dependent on waiting to hear back from Mike about issues sent to him. Depending on what is going on at the factory or if he needs to wait for Marc to be there, it could be a few days for me to hear back.
Thank you for your efforts!
For the record, that is not the usual way IWM acts. In fact, they have an awesome record while dealing with customers and they are very nice in conventions. That's why this is weird.
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With regards to a company's pedigree and speed of getting a kickstarter to fulfillment:
Steve Jackson Games and Ogre.
Onyx Path(which is effectively White Wolf) and Werewolf 20th Anniversary Edition and Exalted 3rd Edition
Both strong pedigrees. And got things way late.
The difference, of course, is communication..and this has made me quite glad I did not support this
kickstarter. It sounds like it was poorly run.
See I am a businessman and I do work on projects with estimated completion dates and with deadlines... I know and understand that production delays happen, and that no one wants that. Look at it this way. IWM would want these bad boys out in general distribution, even as online exclusives as quickly as possible. missing thier production schedules means lost revenue, that alone hurts them. to attribute IWM with taking the money and running is to make the company out to be cartoonish villains who would do so from the get go, not put some effort into it and throw in the towel.
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When it comes to kickstarter projects, it's probably best to just assume right off the bat that they are going to miss their deadline since it happens with so many projects.
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Latest update
"Hi Folks
We are starting to ship the final wave. Some will be mailed tomorrow and some early next week. This shipment includes the Shadowhawks, Phoenixhawks, Wanetas, Yureis and one Pwwkt.
We are not sending posters. In turned out to be too expensive to mail them separately. Instead, we are including a discount code that you can use on the Iron Wind Website. The discount code is in the box and will be good for as many orders as you care to make through December 31, 2014. If for some reason you don't get the card with the code, e-mail me at marc@ironwindmetals.com and I'll send it to you.
I'll be posting an after action report in the next ten days for those of you who may be interested in where I think we failed and where I think we succeeded - and why.
As always, everyone of us at Iron Wind appreciates your support, your patience and your encouragement. For those of you who were critical, I appreciate your honesty and forthrightness - through your criticism, I learned a lot about how to do a better kickstarter next time.
Marc"
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I backed the IWM Kickstarter. And so far it's been my only one.
To a certain degree I agree with the posts that complain about IWM’s communication. The part that irked me the most were the Paypal invoices that didn’t show what I was paying for in regards to the extra miniatures or the shipping fees. I was never concerned about the Kickstarter being fulfilled. IWM has been in the business too long for that and the minis from this project are impressive enough to not complain. If lateness is the crime for you, Google how many Kickstarters ship on time. It’s up there. You might be surprised.
I think the remainder is a Kickstarter problem. Part of the Kickstarter problem is that we, the donor, think Kickstarter is an online retailer. It’s not. Kickstarter is first and lastly a fundraiser. When you sign onto fund a Kickstarter you’re not only signing on to get a “reward” for your support but your signing on for the development, research, design and manufacturing process as well. I think many people forget about this when they donate. At the bottom of the IWM Spectral LAM Kickstarter page they were pretty clear about what could lead to delays in this project. By all means, complain when a project runs late but Kickstarter ain’t Amazon.
See, Kickstarter is the Wild West of fundraising. There are very few safeguards for the person who donates to a project and little vetting of those who start projects. Did anyone see the Kickstarter that wanted to raise money to take over Harmony Gold? Kickstarter’s FAQ states, “Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project.” Further, Kickstarter places no hard and fast deadlines on project completion dates. You aren’t even guaranteed a refund if the project director takes the money and bolts. Once the project funds and Kickstarter gets their cut they’re basically done. It’s you and the creator and even they aren’t accountable to you for how they’re spending all of the money they raised. Again, not Amazon.
Kickstarter is so Wild West that a company as reputable as Reaper runs two Bones Kickstarters, raises $6,598,845 between them and then decides they have to come around a third time for CAV! Why do you think that is? I’m sorry, but I would think that after the first $3,429,235 that Reaper probably had this whole Bones thing nailed down, no? Not only that, but during the opening for the CAV Kickstarter video they are literally dumping minis on the table for everyone to see. They’re shipping out early bird specials! Where’s the development process here? I know a lot of people on these forums backed these projects and sure, maybe you got a load full of plastic minis for $2 each but…..almost $7,000,000?
Look, I’m all for people spending their money as they see fit and for people to make money off of what they create but I think crowd funding pushes the boundaries of fairness to extremes that should be raising red flags.
Mike
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See I am a businessman and I do work on projects with estimated completion dates and with deadlines... I know and understand that production delays happen, and that no one wants that. Look at it this way. IWM would want these bad boys out in general distribution, even as online exclusives as quickly as possible. missing thier production schedules means lost revenue, that alone hurts them. to attribute IWM with taking the money and running is to make the company out to be cartoonish villains who would do so from the get go, not put some effort into it and throw in the towel.
I am sorry if it came across as me saying that.
I did not have the money at the time this kickstarter was running. However, there are issues that I am hearing
that remind me of some of the most frustrating Kickstarters I have participated in. Wreck Age, while it is a great
game, for example, was a frustrating Kickstarter because it was a very long time, with very little communication.
I participated in the Arena Rex Kickstarter, and that also has bad communication, but better then I have gathered
happened with the IWM Kickstarter, and that has still not reached fulfillment a good bit after the estimated dates.
Tin Man Miniatures, a company I have followed for a while, their kickstarter is also very far behind, and has bad
communication. Both of those companies are ones that, once I receive my stuff from their kickstarter, I am not
likely going to participate in another kickstarter they do.
Onyx Path, their Exalted 3rd Edition is WAY late, and there was a huge delat in the Werewolf 20th Anniversary,
and the Changing Breeds Deluxe was a couple months late. HOWEVER, I very much could bear the late delivery
because they were always upfront, telling us regularly where everything was in production and development,
and have let us always know why the delays were happening. Heck, even Robotech Tactics, as much as that
has generated a lot of bad blood with people, was a better run Kickstarter because it has regular communications.
What I expect from a WELL RUN Kickstarter is regular updates. Not every day, but maybe once a month or so.
For Miniatures, I would expect WiP pics of the miniature sculpting. (That is what made me accept the delays on
Arena Rex and some other miniature Kickstarters.) I would expect, if there are delays, them being mentioned
and told to everyone. That people are talking here about not knowing what is going on..that is a bad thing.
I do not believe IWM took anyone's money and ran. However, that people are having to pester the head of
the company to find out any information about where things are is bad. I am sure everyone is going to get
their dividend paid in miniatures. However, the sheer degree of people not sure what is going on? That is
a sign of a poorly run Kickstarter.
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Look I will agree you have to expect a Kickstarter to be late. In fact I never belived IWM would make the original date. Frankly the original date was a joke. I never belived IWM was going to make this project there focus during last years con season. Then again that is what IWM said they were going to do. I think everyone has been patient. When you wait for something to be a year late before you start complaining that is being patient.
But the truth is IWM has not done a good job running this kickstarter. 1) They used stretch goals for something they already took money and were comitted to building. That is right the stretch goals were all part of a fan raising project. 2) They offered an e-coupon which was against Kickstarter rules (They did make that right to the backers let me make that clear) 3) They were late which happens but this leads into number 4 4) Comunication has not been good at all. This is the big killer because without good comunication you really get people upset. 5) They are not sending out the promised posters. The reason because it is two expensive to ship them. Had they done there job before the Kickstarter they would have known that ahead of time. (They are again trying to make it right with a discount code. Which will likely make everyone happy because I doubt the backers the poster was the make or break item)
When you take and look at the whole picture IWM didn't do a good job running this from open to close. Hopefully they have learned a lot from this.
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That seems to be a common thread with Kickstarters. I'm not sure why. I've had two where I've gone back and only received about 2/3 of the email updates and when comparing notes with a friend, they didn't get all of them either but were missing different ones. I'm not sure what that means. Not posting an update on the KS page is another story.
I look forward to seeing their debrief.
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Look I will agree you have to expect a Kickstarter to be late. In fact I never belived IWM would make the original date. Frankly the original date was a joke. I never belived IWM was going to make this project there focus during last years con season. Then again that is what IWM said they were going to do. I think everyone has been patient. When you wait for something to be a year late before you start complaining that is being patient.
But the truth is IWM has not done a good job running this kickstarter. 1) They used stretch goals for something they already took money and were comitted to building. That is right the stretch goals were all part of a fan raising project. 2) They offered an e-coupon which was against Kickstarter rules (They did make that right to the backers let me make that clear) 3) They were late which happens but this leads into number 4 4) Comunication has not been good at all. This is the big killer because without good comunication you really get people upset. 5) They are not sending out the promised posters. The reason because it is two expensive to ship them. Had they done there job before the Kickstarter they would have known that ahead of time. (They are again trying to make it right with a discount code. Which will likely make everyone happy because I doubt the backers the poster was the make or break item)
When you take and look at the whole picture IWM didn't do a good job running this from open to close. Hopefully they have learned a lot from this.
Lessons have been learned from the Kickstarter and will not be forgotten because I will make sure they are not. If IWM does another Kickstarter, it will be run completely differently then this one for sure.
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Got the box with the remainder of the LAMS today. Haven't had a chance to dig thru them yet.
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Any idea when these will be up on the website for general sale?
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Any idea when these will be up on the website for general sale?
That is an interesting question actually. Originally the backers were going to have them for a year before general release. IE. We were supose to have got them July last year and they were not going to be avaidable for general purchase till con season this year. I have no ideal if they still plan to give backers there exclusive period or not.
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That is an interesting question actually. Originally the backers were going to have them for a year before general release. IE. We were supose to have got them July last year and they were not going to be avaidable for general purchase till con season this year. I have no ideal if they still plan to give backers there exclusive period or not.
It still is the plan to delay general release of the LAM's.
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Any news for me Speck?
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Any news for me Speck?
Will check again tonight. I am hoping they are sending your stuff out as part of the shipments going out now. They are shipped send stuff out, I have yet to receive my shipment yet.
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My LAM's finally came in today.
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Me too. I just checked out my 3-mode Waneta. Assembly may be... challenging.
It's all there though.
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I got a shipment as well. :)
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Got mine today, that Waneta is gorgeous.
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My LAM's finally came in today.
Megaditto
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Just posted Basic Assembly Guides for all but Waneta Mech mode. See the Announcement (http://www.ironwindmetals.com/d/node/1802) for the PDF downloads.
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Ah very nice, Speck!
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Those assembly guides are going to be very useful. I can't wait until the LAMs go to general distribution. My WOB Level III will not be complete without the Spectral LAMs.
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Just posted Basic Assembly Guides for all but Waneta Mech mode. See the Announcement (http://www.ironwindmetals.com/d/node/1802) for the PDF downloads.
This is a welcome addition.
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My stuff game today with my bonus loot (I asked it to ship last). Only issue that I have is on the units got shipped with double legs and no arms. Who should I contact about obtaining the missing parts since this was outside of a standard web order?
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I used the "support - open new ticket" option on their site for a missing upper leg piece. Got a reply back quickly that it was being taken care of.
Dak
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and I got all of my LAM's this afternoon.
BOOM!
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So the directions for all 6 on IWM. How long for the rest of us to get?
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So the directions for all 6 on IWM. How long for the rest of us to get?
I posted PDF for all but Waneta Mech mode.
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Looks like half of my minis are here now.
I ordered doubles but only have 1 of each.
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Looks like half of my minis are here now.
I ordered doubles but only have 1 of each.
Created a support ticket or send email to the ihaveaproblem account and Brittany will be able to help you.
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Mine came in last Saturday and look like fun. Only thing I'd ask is if it's possible to get a new Waneta mech left hand so I can put it on the Waneta air-mech to match the illustration in J:FR. Overall an impressive set of minis.
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My Waneta arrived (in Australia) yesterday (27th)
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I got my mechs today. Oh, man, it was awesome. Many thanks for your efforts!
(got lucky, I just bought a new bottle of superglue!)
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So I am just going to put out that it has been a month and a week since they said they would do part 1 of "After Action Report" In that report they admitted that comunications was bad in the Kickstarter. Big of them to admit that. But then again they said in a week they would do part 2 of the "After Action Report" Which means they learned nothing because they went right back to doing what they said they were doing wrong.
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Someday I may get my LAM's. Someday...
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Someday I may get my LAM's. Someday...
I know that feel, bro. I just sent an email to Mike. Here's hoping for good news.
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Just wanted to update that today I received an email from Mike Noe saying that they would send me my LAMs asap. Can't wait for them to finally arrive.
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The last post was the start of the year. Has IWM finished shipping? Also any idea when they will be made available to the public? last question where are the stats and rules for LAMs? Thanks for the information.
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They have, I've seen a LAM at local con couples err Months ago.
You may want try e-mail them find out what status is Griffen127.
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Thanks!
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Hope these come out soon. Have an omega and a lightray. Need some more wobbie mechs to round out a small eclectic force of them.
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When will we see the LAMs on the IWM site?
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When will we see the LAMs on the IWM site?
They will become available on IWM website after Convention season, so September at the earliest. They will be available at Origins in early June, Historicon in July and GenCon in Late July / Early August.
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Thanks Speck!