Inner Sphere partial wings?

[Prillotashekta]

So, TRO:3085 has a little blurd in the Spider entry about a Kurita variant equipped with a Partial Wing, noting that it "weighs one ton more than the Clan Partial Wing"

I know Clantech Partial Wings are written up in TacOps,
but where do rules for Inner Sphere Partial Wings appear?  I've checked TacOps, RS:3085, and TRO:3085. No luck.

[Diplominator]

They...don't. The bit in 3085 is it. Fortunately, it tells you everything you need to know. Just like the Clan version, not as efficient. Parallel development, I assume.

[MinigunSniper]

Is there any chance we might see actual construction rules for the IS partial wing?

[Youngblood]

What is there to put into a book?  All you have to append to the Clan Partial Wing rules is the additional Inner Sphere requirements.

It's not like rules haven't been introduced into the BattleTech world through a TRO before.  See the original first-printing TRO 3050.

[Prillotashekta]

But, what are the Inner Sphere requirements?
We know the Partial Wing on the 30-ton Spider weight 1-ton more than the equivalent Clantech version, but is that 1-ton constant across all weight classes, or or do Inner Sphere Partial Wings use a different scaling for finding tonnage? We know it has "additional structural support", but does that translate to one extra occupied critical slot per side? Two? Three? And that's just assuming the jump MP and heat modifiers are equivalent between the two tech bases.

[Youngblood]

You might be overthinking it.  But don't take my word for it, just ask a Catalyst rep.

[Yeti]

Apparently the TPTB also saw that problem and they just put in an errata to the Partial Wing that should answer all questions (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,415.msg27920.html#msg27920)

The BattleMech Partial Wing weight is a percentage of the total mass, 5 percent for Clan and 7 percent for Inner Sphere tech level (rounded up to the nearest half ton). It occupies 3 critical slots for Clan and 4 for Inner Sphere in each of the unit’s side torso locations.

[Prillotashekta]

Oh, excellent.
Thank you.

[Onisuzume]

Anyone else hoping this'll get into the next version of SSW?

[majesticmoose]

Isn't Partial wing expiramental though?

I only ask because TRO:3085 and it's like rarely if ever include experimental tech.  I was always under the impression that was XTRO territory?

[nckestrel]

Isn't Partial wing expiramental though?

I only ask because TRO:3085 and it's like rarely if ever include experimental tech.  I was always under the impression that was XTRO territory?

there are a couple experimental variants sprinkled through TR3085.  There's an entire series of C3 Boosted units in RS 3085 Cutting Edge.  A series that many have UMUs in RS 3085 ONN.

[Youngblood]

Isn't Partial wing expiramental though?

I only ask because TRO:3085 and it's like rarely if ever include experimental tech.  I was always under the impression that was XTRO territory?

I've got a feeling that more and more of the experimental TacOps equipment will start showing themselves on more and more "flagship" products, like TROs.  They might even become tournament legal!

[majesticmoose]

One could only hope that we might see blue shields on the battlefield one day.

[Lorcan Nagle]

Isn't Partial wing expiramental though?

I only ask because TRO:3085 and it's like rarely if ever include experimental tech.  I was always under the impression that was XTRO territory?

there's been a fair bit of advanced/experimental tech in TRO:3075 and TRO: 3085.

[Onisuzume]

there's been a fair bit of advanced/experimental tech in TRO:3075 and TRO: 3085.

As well as TRO3055U (the Solaris 'Mechs, for example).

[Lorcan Nagle]

yeah, I'd forgotten about the Solaris Mechs.

[majesticmoose]

I guess I noticed it but just assumed whatever experimental tech had been included was advanced. It wasn't until yesterday I even realized mech partial wing is exp.

[BirdofPrey]

there's been a fair bit of advanced/experimental tech in TRO:3075 and TRO: 3085.

I for one like this.  There's quite a few players that don't like you to field customs so it's canon or GTFO, which means a lot of  that neat equipment in TO goes unused.  Having a canon variant with advanced/experimental equipment not only makes more sense fluff wise (why have any of those options if you aren't going to use them?), it also means you get a chance to actually use it.

[Diplominator]

I for one like this.  There's quite a few players that don't like you to field customs so it's canon or GTFO, which means a lot of  that neat equipment in TO goes unused.  Having a canon variant with advanced/experimental equipment not only makes more sense fluff wise (why have any of those options if you aren't going to use them?), it also means you get a chance to actually use it.

Not only that, but it gives a sense of continuity as things like partial wings, odd physical attack weapons, and perhaps even XXL engines become more common down the line.  I think part of why all the IJJ in 3085 bugged people so much was that although the rules had been around for over a decade there weren't any canon designs that used them, even experimental.

[majesticmoose]

I for one like this.  There's quite a few players that don't like you to field customs so it's canon or GTFO, which means a lot of  that neat equipment in TO goes unused.  Having a canon variant with advanced/experimental equipment not only makes more sense fluff wise (why have any of those options if you aren't going to use them?), it also means you get a chance to actually use it.

I'm in no way saying I'm opposed, I just was under the impression that the TRO's were supposed to be tourny books.  An assumption on my part.

I like that the tech is filtering as well, as I don't much like the (IMO artificial) divide between advanced and expiramental tech.  To me that's what availability is for.  There should just be tourny tech and non-tourny tech.  but I'm sure there's a good reason for it.

[Skyhigh]

Anyone else hoping this'll get into the next version of SSW?

Your hope has been answered...new build just put up includes code to allow IS Partial Wings

[evilauthor]

Now I have a question... is an IS Partial Wing worth it? 4 crits from each side torso? Ouchies, man! And 7% mech weight? What happened to easy to round numbers?

[Youngblood]

Now I have a question... is an IS Partial Wing worth it? 4 crits from each side torso? Ouchies, man! And 7% mech weight? What happened to easy to round numbers?

If you want to generate that higher To-hit modifier and you've used up your jump jet allowance, YES.  Also, on heavier 'Mechs, the 7% tonnage isn't as bad as spending the 15-20% on Improved Jump Jets.

[NightmareSteel]

You might also be able to get a 3/5/6 'mech or a 5/8/9 'mech for relatively reasonable tonnage; more likely the 3/5/6.  Low engine weight, keep the IJJ tonnage down, and keep the jump heat down.

[mutantmagnet]

Now I have a question... is an IS Partial Wing worth it? 4 crits from each side torso? Ouchies, man! And 7% mech weight? What happened to easy to round numbers?

It's worth it to a degree. For medium and lights they get +2 jump MP so partial wings is useful regardless of using normal jumpjets or improved jets.

For heavy and assaults partial wing is best served for units moving 4/6/max jump (either improved or standard). There's less acceptable design options aside from very specific circumstances.

Don't forget partial wing acts as integrated triple heatsink that can function until all crits are destroyed which helps offset the inherent crit and weight issues.

[evilauthor]

For heavy and assaults partial wing is best served for units moving 4/6/max jump (either improved or standard). There's less acceptable design options aside from very specific circumstances.

Don't forget partial wing acts as integrated triple heatsink that can function until all crits are destroyed which helps offset the inherent crit and weight issues.

Hrm... not 4/6 bu close enough? Link

[Onisuzume]

Your hope has been answered...new build just put up includes code to allow IS Partial Wings

Bless you.

As for how effective Partial Wings are compared to same-MP with iJJs:
Partial Wings are generally also more space-efficient.
20-Tons 6/9/8: 4.5t vs. 8t
25-Tons 6/9/8: 5t vs. 8t
30-Tons 6/9/8: 5.5t vs. 8t
35-Tons 6/9/8: 5.5t vs. 8t
40-Tons 6/9/8: 6t vs. 8t
45-Tons 6/9/8: 6.5t vs. 8t
50-Tons 5/8/7: 6t vs. 7t
55-Tons 5/8/7: 6.5t vs. 7t
60-Tons 5/8/6: 9.5t vs. 12t
65-Tons 5/8/6: 10t vs. 12t
70-Tons 4/6/5: 9t vs. 10t
75-Tons 4/6/5: 9.5t vs. 10t
80-Tons 4/6/5: 10t vs. 10t
85-Tons 4/6/5: 10t vs. 10t
90-Tons 4/6/5: 14.5t vs. 20t
95-Tons 3/5/4: 13t vs. 16t
100-Tons 3/5/4: 13t vs. 16t

And that's just IS Partial Wings.
The 100-Tonner moving 3/5/4 would be 11t vs. 16t for the clanners.

a 5/8/9 'mech for relatively reasonable tonnage

Yes, if you consider about 33% of your 'Mechs weight as reasonable. (60-Tonner)
Although on a 55-Tonner its only 10t (in which case: why not go for 4/8/10?).

[Beukeboom Fan]

Anyone else ask this question - why should the Clan partial wing be more efficient than the I/S version?  Does the Clan have a better understanding of Bernouli's principles?  I don't understand the need for the weight differential when when Inner Sphere endostructure is the same weight as the clan version.  And I think that the structure is the most appropriate comparison instead of the any other factor?  The clan advantage with FF Armor IMO would be more of a measure of effectiveness on the armor's ability to be resistant to damage.

I'm all for the clan having technical advantages.  For the existing weapon's advantages - that makes total sense.   I just have a hard time understanding how clan R&D (40% more effecient in this case) could be better than the I/S for entirely new projects when I/S have had 35 years to reverse engineer the clan developments, and a MUCH larger resource/talent pool to draw from.

[evilauthor]

Presumably, the Clan PW uses some kind of advanced materials that the IS STILL hasn't mastered production of.

[Diplominator]

Bless you.

As for how effective Partial Wings are compared to same-MP with iJJs:
Partial Wings are generally also more space-efficient.
20-Tons 6/9/8: 4.5t vs. 8t
25-Tons 6/9/8: 5t vs. 8t
30-Tons 6/9/8: 5.5t vs. 8t
35-Tons 6/9/8: 5.5t vs. 8t
40-Tons 6/9/8: 6t vs. 8t
45-Tons 6/9/8: 6.5t vs. 8t
50-Tons 5/8/7: 6t vs. 7t
55-Tons 5/8/7: 6.5t vs. 7t
60-Tons 5/8/6: 9.5t vs. 12t
65-Tons 5/8/6: 10t vs. 12t
70-Tons 4/6/5: 9t vs. 10t
75-Tons 4/6/5: 9.5t vs. 10t
80-Tons 4/6/5: 10t vs. 10t
85-Tons 4/6/5: 10t vs. 10t
90-Tons 4/6/5: 14.5t vs. 20t
95-Tons 3/5/4: 13t vs. 16t
100-Tons 3/5/4: 13t vs. 16t

And that's just IS Partial Wings.
The 100-Tonner moving 3/5/4 would be 11t vs. 16t for the clanners.Yes, if you consider about 33% of your 'Mechs weight as reasonable. (60-Tonner)
Although on a 55-Tonner its only 10t (in which case: why not go for 4/8/10?).

Yeah, but those are all weird numbers of improved jump jets. By and large, you can use improved jump jets to go faster than partial wings, or you can drop an engine size and go just as fast (or even faster). If you don't use the most IJJ you can, of course they look bad, since the weight of the jets up to walking speed is also doubled.

As far as I can tell, partial wings only give equal benefits to maxed IJJ on 4/6/6 mediums or lighter, and 2/3/3 assaults. Plus, using IJJ over standard jets nearly always reduces heat by at least the 3 you get from a partial wing. I can see where it would be useful for things like 5/8/7 mediums, but that's about it.

I think PWs are great, don't get me wrong, but I'd almost always get IJJ first.  It's like how if I want something faster, I'll use MASC before a supercharger.