Best Swiss Army weapons

[mutantmagnet]

Awhile back a discussion was started on if you had to choose only 5 weapons to equip your army with what would they be.

Not surprisingly the God tier weapons that ruled almost universally in the lists was the medium laser and Gauss Rifle.

So I was curious as to see what people considered to be the most well rounded weapons.

What weapon offers the best options for engaging different unit types from fighters to infantry and was the most effective at achieving those results while not making your mech loadout gimp?

You can pick any two weapons and you can change your vote if you feel like it later on.

[IndyRI]

Well since the god weapons aren't on the list, I'm going to go with a couple of fairly recent weapons that I've been getting excellent usage out of: The Plasma Rifle and the MML 9.

The Plasma Rifle is essentially a PPC with extra utility. 6 tons plus 1 or two for ammo, nearly the same range, no minimum, 10 heat for 10 damage. It also has the benefit of causing a small little heat spike on the opponent. 1d6 of heat may not be much, but on TSm machines or anythin that runs a little hot it will at the very least limit how much of their arsenal an enemy can throw back at you. Finally, against non-heat-tracking units, the PR tacks on extra damage. Battle Armor and PBI especially start falling like flies. The Plasma Rifle does the job of a PPC and a burst fire weapon AND Inferno SRMs all in one conveniently sized unit.


MMLs are similar in that they allow you to fill multiple roles easily. LRMs and SRMs are already incredibly versatile in the sense that they have a wide variety of ammunitiuon types for any occasion or role. And with MMLs allowing a long range punch and a short range crit-seeking hit all in the same unit, it's hard not to recommend them. They can lay mines, they can spread infernos, they can deal damage, they can crit seek, they can indirectly fire, etc.

[Arkansas Warrior]

PPC and LBX10

[IndyRI]

PPC and LBX10

Any reasoning there, buddy. You're usually more talkative than that.

[Youngblood]

Awww, but weapons are my favorite part of BattleTech!  I like the big ol' Standard AC/20 for specialized ammo, which can include Precision for hunting down runners, or Fragmentation for PBI...Flak in TacOps rules for VTOLs and ASFs, oh and PBI again.  Nothing beats the catharsis of personally running up to someone and unloading concentrated 20-point love onto them!

As for Battle Armor and ground vehicles, there's nothing like some specialized, direct-fired Sniper ammo to cover a whole patch of hexes with!  Motive crits and dead squads everywhere!  Not to mention the more tactical uses, like Smoke for covering advances, or Cluster for raining evil pain, or Thunder mines for MORE area denial, or Inferno for setting forests on FIRE FIRE YEAH FIRE.

My other choices would have been TAG, Arrow IV, and LRM 20s. {>{>

[IndyRI]

My other choices would have been TAG, Arrow IV, and LRM 20s. {>{>

I'm noticing a pattern here, my friend. A big fan of the long range hurt, huh?  ;D

[Youngblood]

Yeah, though I don't really get to play support units often.  Ask any one of my fellow campaign players and they'd say I'd never bother fighting past 9 hexes!  Pulse lasers, AC/20s, and TSM galore!

[cray]

Awhile back a discussion was started on if you had to choose only 5 weapons to equip your army with what would they be.

Not surprisingly the God tier weapons that ruled almost universally in the lists was the medium laser and Gauss Rifle.

So I was curious as to see what people considered to be the most well rounded weapons.

My choice for most well-rounded: Medium laser, LRM launchers, and PPCs. Between those 3 weapons there is little you cannot blow up on the battlefield. MLs (most forms) are efficient secondary weapons, PPCs (of all stripes) are workhorse heavy, ranged weapons, and LRMs' ammunition flexibility and indirect fire capability makes them, well, flexible. Can they destroy 'Mechs? Yep. Tanks? Yep. Infantry? Yep. Aircraft? Yep. Buildings? Yep. Short-range targets? Yep. Long range targets? Yep (PPCs and LRMs). Indirect fire? Yep (LRMs). Non-lethal and supporting munitions? Yep (LRMs). They're not the most effective weapons for all those tasks, but they can accomplish them, and the weapons that are better at one of those tasks tend to suffer in other roles (e.g., MGs: great infantry killers, not so good in the other roles.)

Of those, you only listed LRMs, so I voted "LRM 15" and "see below."

Note that the MLs, LRMs, and PPCs are my preference amongst well-rounded weapons. There are other fun combinations. The Gauss Rifle you mentioned is laudably flexible, too - there ain't much it can't blow up, though it's not to my taste.

And MLs, LRMs, and PPCs are not the most perfect

What weapon offers the best options for engaging different unit types from fighters to infantry and was the most effective at achieving those results while not making your mech loadout gimp?

You can get the job done with LRMs, MLs, and PPCs. There are better weapons for killing infantry, like MGs, but the trio of workhorses will do. LRMs with specialty ammo can be murderous, especially if they can use exploit their range against the infantry.

If I had to pick a single specialist weapon for anti-infantry work, it'd be the MG. Light, compact, lots of ammo, very effective. In fact, when picking 5 weapons for my military I'd think long and hard about making the MG one of them. (And on that note I'd probably pick an artillery piece to be the 5th.)

[Crunch]

I went with the Plasma Rifle (Good Direct Damage and great at multi role engagement from PBI to CVs), and the MML3.

While the 3 is not my favorite MML rack I avoided the larger ones since I'd be using them on smaller mechs and vees instead.

[Old Knight]

Like some of you, i pick the plasma rifle as one of my choice for the same reasons already explained. The other is the LB-10X. This weapon have a good range bracket and deal a good amount of damage. You can also switch it to cluster ammo for better chance to hit or for critical hit seeking. A very good all around weapon.  [applause]

[IndyRI]

I'm actually very surprised by the amount of LB-X ACs are getting so far. Autocannons, even the more advanced variety, are typically panned for being inifficient for their damage/range values. Nice to see that some players still continue to find some utility for them.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Any reasoning there, buddy. You're usually more talkative than that.

LBX because it's a good medium of capability versus weight/space.  The smaller LBXs are a waste of tonnage, and the -20's hard to get the tonnage and space for.  LBX too because it provides the ability to hole punch and critseek, as well as AAA duties.
 
PPC just for all around awesomeness.  It doesn't have the great damage/heat/tonnage of the ML, but it's got good range, provides a pretty strong 10 point hit, and doesn't really have bad heat issues.  It's the gun you build a mech around, whereas MLs tend to be backup guns, or most useful only en masse.

[Crunch]

I'm actually very surprised by the amount of LB-X ACs are getting so far. Autocannons, even the more advanced variety, are typically panned for being inifficient for their damage/range values. Nice to see that some players still continue to find some utility for them.

Under TW they're a god weapon against VTOLs and Combat Vees and good against mechs and Aero. They also slightly outperform direct fire energy weapons against Infantry.

I gave the edge to the Plasma Rifle because of anti Infantry performance and the MML3 for the varied benefit of LRM and SRM munitions, but the LB 10 and the LAC 5 were both close runners up on my list.

[LastChanceCav]

Although there are few things that can't be taken care of by the liberal application of MLs and PPCs, I find the LB10-X to be an appealing weapon for its low heat (goes nicely with PPCs), whole-punching/critting flexibility, decent range (again goes good with PPCs) and AAA capability.  The only downside is its mass which generally prohibits its use on lighter units.  As a ballistic weapon its also a good choice for moutning on vees as well.

Cheers,
LCC

[Kit deSummersville]

Very sad the Flamer isn't included. You can set fires, kill infantry, damage tanks, heat up 'Mechs and cook a wild boar with it.

[IndyRI]

Very sad the Flamer isn't included. You can set fires, kill infantry, damage tanks, heat up 'Mechs and cook a wild boar with it.

Post-TW I'm actually a big fan of the flamer. It's a tonnage-cheap swiss-army weapon in a way no other burst-fire weapon is. It's probably redundant on a mech already carrying another anti-PBI weapon, but the utility to create fires, spike heat, etc allows it to almost never feel like a complete waste of space. The Clan version especially is invaluable. It's a half ton investment in your survival in any combined arms game.

[Mattlov]

LB-10X is a classic multi-purpose weapon.  Really is a great gun.

My new favorite is the plasma rifle, though.  Heat and damage, no danger to the wielder in terms of ammo explosion, and an easily managed heat output.  All for a light and compact weapon.  It is great in almost all circumstances.

[mutantmagnet]

My choice for most well-rounded: Medium laser, LRM launchers, and PPCs.  Can they destroy 'Mechs? Yep. Tanks? Yep. Infantry?

You can get the job done with LRMs, MLs, and PPCs. There are better weapons for killing infantry, like MGs, but the trio of workhorses will do. LRMs with specialty ammo can be murderous, especially if they can use exploit their range against the infantry.

Ever since the Infantry damage calculations reboot PPCs and Medium lasers sucked at killing infantry since they only do one damage each shot.

LRMs I'll give you credit but I generally found them lacking up until TacOps gave them mine clearance warheads which had the indirect benefit of making an alternative anti-infantry ammo option that wasn't undesirable.

Very sad the Flamer isn't included. You can set fires, kill infantry, damage tanks, heat up 'Mechs and cook a wild boar with it.

Just for you I'll put aside my bias against them ;)

I still won't list weapons like Gauss rifles and medium lasers in the poll because the question wasn't about weapons that are very one dimensional in their rules structure.

[Sockmonkey]

I've got a thing for the ERPPC. Granted it's only practical if you have DHS, but so worth it to have a single non-ammo dependant weapon that's good at all ranges.

[Railan Sradac]

I'll just go over the two I picked, expound on a few more that didn't make the cut (and a couple more that weren't on there [tickedoff]). Keep in mind I've been playing CV-only for the past while (showing those Bears that we don't need no steenkin 'Mechs) so my opinion will be quite skewed.

Winners: The LB-10X and the NARC beacon.

LB-10X: I love this thing. I put a pair on my MBT (a 70-ton 5/8 tank w/ XLE) and they are beautiful. They've got the range to engage at what is about the same distance as his shorter-ranged units, hole-punch nicely and then critseek like a god afterwards. Also, if he's got a pilot he really likes in one I can just spray clusters at him until he dies from head hits.

(i)NARC beacon: Ever been in a star-vs-star battle where one side is entirely comprised of vehicles? Now take that and make sure that almost every vehicle in the place has LRMs of some description. Put a NARC on one of your fast hovers and watch its target disappear in a hail of 5-point clusters.

Runner-ups:

The LRM-15: Light at 3.5 tons, puts out a great amount of firepower at a crazy range and can still unload in their pretty little faces. Goes beautifully with a NARC and if you're feeling really mean, you can take one or two of my Coelispex (Heavy LRM Carrier) and load them up with Semi-Guideds. They won't see anything except the rain of LRMs.

AC/10: On the few occasions I play IS, this is a great thing to have. Good range, great flexibility and a solid pair come on my favourite IS 'mech to walk.

SRM-4: Light, extremely efficient and good for crit-seeking when the -10Xs are still punching holes. Plus I get to see those heat-scale-riding heavies of his writhe in agony as they shoot way past safe.

Arrow IV: Hueys carry a pair. Best fire support I can get usually. Great with TAG-equipped hovers and homing rounds. Additionally, on the few occasions we get a bit of mixtech stuff, they make great C3 Masters.

Things that should have been there (but weren't):

ATMs: I know, throwing bank machines at your opponents is fun. What's more fun? Watching the front armour on a Kodiak disappear as it gets loaded up with HE. Good when you don't have NARC in your force or are using AIV instead. Really good on light scouts for "discouraging" those annoying Ice Ferrets and such.

TAG: What? It wasn't there! You're kidding me. Only one of the single best items I've ever encountered, it synergizes with Arrow IV, Semi-Guided LRMs and all that fire-support jazz. I put it on any vee I can find the tonnage for, as it's too useful to lose with your EW specialist.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

LB-20X: makes big holes in mechs; check
exploits holes in mechs; check
good vs ground vehicles; check
functional vs infantry; check

Okay, not actually as good as the LB-10, but IMO more fun.

Arrow IV: Makes big boom; check
Makes accurate boom; check
Makes instant minefield; check
Makes things on fire; check
SAM I am; check
Air-to-air; check

[iamfanboy]

Wow, I just realized the Flamer is on there - dammit, I shouldn't've picked the MML!

Almost every 'Mech I've designed in the past few years has included a flamer as its anti-infantry weapon, for the versatility of it that goes beyond machine guns or pulse lasers - starting fires, anti-infantry, raising heat... as everyone has mentioned above, it's a swiss-army weapon.

In fact, when it came time to pick a 3025-era Whitworth variant to print out for my record sheets, I only had to look between the 3xML 2xSRM-6 and 2xML 2xSRM-6 1xFlamer for half a second before hitting "PRINT!" on the Flamer version - for one thing, the flamer is in the HEAD.

FIREBREATHING WHITWORTH MOFOS!

The other choice I made was the LB-10X of course. 1 ton lighter than the AC/10, same damage/heat, better versatility? Sign me up baby!

[Fear Factory]

Simply put, Clan Large Pulse Laser.  It's a beast.

I actually voted for the LB-5-X Autocannon.  It's a weapon a lot of people overlook on both sides.  It is great for hitting vehicles and fighters plus it's a decent critical seeker.  My favorite use for it is with an ER PPC or Large Pulse Laser.

[mutantmagnet]

LB-20X: makes big holes in mechs; check
exploits holes in mechs; check
good vs ground vehicles; check
functional vs infantry; check

Okay, not actually as good as the LB-10, but IMO more fun.

From your experience do you think the LBX 20 overcrits its target?

By overcrit I'm saying when you want to exploit exposed mech internals or kill a vehicle through crits you end up doing that long before all your crit checks are done.

Arrow IV: Makes big boom; check
Makes accurate boom; check
Makes instant minefield; check
Makes things on fire; check
SAM I am; check
Air-to-air; check

Indeed in the thread I referred to this was one of my five must have weapons but I have a hard time justifying as the among the best utility weapon because of the massive cost in crits and mass.

I actually voted for the LB-5-X Autocannon.  It's a weapon a lot of people overlook on both sides.  It is great for hitting vehicles and fighters plus it's a decent critical seeker.  My favorite use for it is with an ER PPC or Large Pulse Laser.

From your experience is it preferable to try not to squeeze in an LBX10 in custom mechs when an LBX 5 fits perfectly and doesn't force you to compromise other aspects of your designs?

Is the LBX 5 a better weapon to deal with VTOLs?

[Stormfury]

I voted for the LPL conditionally, as it needs to be a Clan weapon to be effective in every role (aside from indirect fire or whatever).

For the second, it would go to the MML-5 (IS) or ATM-6 (Clan).

However, being able to do anything does not mean you're doing it well. The 3025 Shadow Hawk can always do something no matter the situation; near as I can determine, that something is usually making you wish you had a Wolverine-M instead :P

So it is with weapons.

[cray]

Ever since the Infantry damage calculations reboot PPCs and Medium lasers sucked at killing infantry since they only do one damage each shot.

I'm aware of that. They still kill infantry and do so at ranges few infantry can match. I'd prefer to plink away at infantry from out of their reach than to close to let them have their fair turn.

I still won't list weapons like Gauss rifles and medium lasers in the poll because the question wasn't about weapons that are very one dimensional in their rules structure.

That's an odd definition "versatile." Wouldn't the battlefield definition ("Able to accomplish many things on the battlefield") be more useful than "has lots of complicated rules"? I mean, the PCs and NPCs using the guns aren't going to care about some invisible rulebook in the sky. Their interest will be what battlefield roles can be filled by the weapon.

ATMs: I know, throwing bank machines at your opponents is fun. What's more fun? Watching the front armour on a Kodiak disappear as it gets loaded up with HE. Good when you don't have NARC in your force or are using AIV instead. Really good on light scouts for "discouraging" those annoying Ice Ferrets and such.

Railan, I liked most of your ideas and the logic behind them, and I loved some of them. But ATMs? A weapon isn’t versatile when it needs 3 types of specialized ammo to accomplish what others – like the Clan LRMs – can do with one ammo type. (Less, really, since ATMs lack indirect fire.) ATMs’ only advantage is at 1-3 hexes, but if that’s your range of interest you’d be better off replacing ATMs with Clan SRMs.

[O5P_Ghost]

Off this list I have to choose the Plasma Rifle and LB10x. They are the most versitile. I'm begining to like the Plasma Rifle so much that I'm thinking of going Cappellan...

But if I had to choose 5 weapons for an army it would be PPC, LRM, Medium laser, Arrow IV (to echo cray), and the SPL for infantry. I prefer the SPL over the MG, due to weight factors. a MG and 1/2 ton of ammo is the same weight as the SPL but I avoid ammo runs and explosions. I do have some heat issues but...

now if I can get an IS version of APguass...

[Kit deSummersville]

Just for you I'll put aside my bias against them ;)

Oh goody! Subtract one Plasma Rifle vote and add in a Flamer vote.

[IndyRI]

Railan, I liked most of your ideas and the logic behind them, and I loved some of them. But ATMs? A weapon isn’t versatile when it needs 3 types of specialized ammo to accomplish what others – like the Clan LRMs – can do with one ammo type. (Less, really, since ATMs lack indirect fire.) ATMs’ only advantage is at 1-3 hexes, but if that’s your range of interest you’d be better off replacing ATMs with Clan SRMs.

Dude, ATMs are incredibly efficient weapons for the intended effect. The only advantage that LRMs and SRMs have over them is that they can use a variety of specialized ammunition types, but other than Infernos and FASCAMs most of these will rarely be used anyways. For one, ATMs really should only be using ER and HE ammo. Standard is alright, but is too much of a middle ground to be much use comparitively. ER ammo has a 6 hex advantage on LRMs. That's significant. And HE does an enormous amount of damage. To match the damage output at long and short range of an ATM12 with ER and HE ammo, you'd need 1 LRM 15 and 3 SRM6s. That's an 7 ton, 5 crit ATM launcher generating 12 long range damage and 36 short range damage for 8 heat against 8 tons and 5 crits of LRMs and SRMs generating 15 damage long range damage and 36 damage short range for 17 heat. And the ATM has integrated Artemis. Are ATMs an every-time replacement? No. But they are pretty plainly more efficient is terms of damage for heat, and even damage for tonnage by and large.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

From your experience do you think the LBX 20 overcrits its target?

By overcrit I'm saying when you want to exploit exposed mech internals or kill a vehicle through crits you end up doing that long before all your crit checks are done.

And that's a bad thing somehow?

[IndyRI]

Probably a question of efficiency than anything else, Ogre. But personally I'd prefer to overcrit than undercrit.

[Fear Factory]

From your experience is it preferable to try not to squeeze in an LBX10 in custom mechs when an LBX 5 fits perfectly and doesn't force you to compromise other aspects of your designs?

Is the LBX 5 a better weapon to deal with VTOLs?

The LB 5 has some good reach and it can compliment the ranges of most of the Clan hard-hitting weapons perfectly.  It's like a very long range SRM-4.

[LastChanceCav]

The LB5-X also pairs nicely with the range brackets on the IS ER PPC and I've paired them on my C3 snipers in the past.

Cheers,
LCC

[Bowman]

Swiss army weapon? Why, the medium laser of course. It could go on any mech and be used in almost any application. It can even uncork a bottle of wine in 2 seconds flat.

[Fear Factory]

The LB5-X also pairs nicely with the range brackets on the IS ER PPC and I've paired them on my C3 snipers in the past.

Cheers,
LCC

Yep.  Pack regualr ammo for the concentrated damage, then when the holes open up or when Tanks, Fighters and VTOL show up, switch to cluster.

Not sure but how does flak do against Infantry?  Can't remember off the top of my head.

[Railan Sradac]

Railan, I liked most of your ideas and the logic behind them, and I loved some of them. But ATMs? A weapon isn’t versatile when it needs 3 types of specialized ammo to accomplish what others – like the Clan LRMs – can do with one ammo type. (Less, really, since ATMs lack indirect fire.) ATMs’ only advantage is at 1-3 hexes, but if that’s your range of interest you’d be better off replacing ATMs with Clan SRMs.

I'm flattered, Techy-mech. As I mentioned, I play CVs prominently (and that looks pretty good on my CV, methinks) and while I have a mod of my 50-ton hover (the Hetairoi) that runs a fine complement of SRMs, it doesn't fare too well in general. While they aren't that dangerous usually, my opponent knows that once my ER PPCs and similar have finished on the armour of his heavies, that SRM barrage is going to make the kill, and while I do have 7.5 tons of Ferro-Fibrous on the thing that doesn't mean much against those MPLs. Plus, staying out of MPL distance means greater longevity in general as I can kite and fiddle with TMMs to my heart's delight. I find ATMs to be very useful in that I can drop large quantities of missile fire at ranges where his main response is LRMs. If I really want to, I can dance way out of his range using the 27-max range of the ER ammo, but seeing as I like my engagements to not take hours I don't tend to do that often. Furthermore, against the ubiquitous light/medium omnis that appear fairly regularly as part of his Stars, the ATM's veritable bucket of 5-point clusters seem to be more useful than the SRMs. And then, there's the simple fact that I like being able to function at numerous ranges.

Also, while I extolled the virtues of NARC in my post, I find it hard to fit on Clan Vees and tend to leave that for when I play IS. AIV (that's Artemis, not Arrow) is quite nice however unless I'm firing indirectly (which is likely if there are Coelispexii around) and it comes free on ATMs and doesn't require me to re-buy it per launcher as ATMs are fairly mass-consumptive. When NARC is not around LRMs lose a fair bit of ground on ATMs IMO, as you want AIV to get that accuracy bonus. Additionally, I tend to put ATMs on support units that can move to cover or aid any unit that isn't doing their job properly, which requires flexibility to do.

[Onisuzume]

I think I'll go with the MRM and the Large Laser.
The former for its damage potential up close (or with C³), and the latter for good basic performance.
They got almost the same range brackets as well.
If only we could get special MRM ammo...

[Top Sergeant]

I can't believe the medium laser wasn't listed.  :o

I went with LBX 20 and the SRM 6.

[IndyRI]

I think I'll go with the MRM and the Large Laser.
The former for its damage potential up close (or with C³), and the latter for good basic performance.
They got almost the same range brackets as well.
If only we could get special MRM ammo...

Really? I love MRMs for the pure fun of dropping 40 missiles on an opponent, but do you really think that they're one of the two most effective all-around weapons in the game? How so?

[Onisuzume]

Really? I love MRMs for the pure fun of dropping 40 missiles on an opponent, but do you really think that they're one of the two most effective all-around weapons in the game? How so?

Because they're surprisingly effective even if they don't look like it.
Back on the old forum (part of the section lost), a design contest was about unobviously optimised designs/weapons. my 6×MRM-10&1×LL design (based on MAD-3R) did surprisingly well in MegaMek (not sure if it was balanced by BV or by tonnage). And it wasn't even using a C³ Network during that trial (C³ network trial was/is still pending). Sure, it'll lose to a 100-tonner, but how many 75-tonners can consistently beat 100-tonners?
Just stay away from AMS.

[Sockmonkey]

Swiss army weapon? Why, the medium laser of course. It could go on any mech and be used in almost any application. It can even uncork a bottle of wine in 2 seconds flat.

I wouldn't say it's so much a jack of all trades as much as it does a particular job that everyone needs done, and does it well.

[maddyfish]

LBX 10, and Medium laser

LBX is pretty straighforward, and med lasers ca be piled up just about anywhere.

[mutantmagnet]

Nice to see Large Pulse lasers getting so many votes.

Still shocked to see LRMs being outweighed as a group by MMLs. (even though I really shouldn't considering the question I asked)

[XaosGorilla]

The Clan Large Pulse Laser would have received my vote, but the list does not make the distinction between Clan and IS weapons.  Plus, erm, i kinda prefer to play IS. That puts me in with the LB-10x and Plasma Rifle voters...

[Schottenjaeger]

Indy, the reason you're seeing so many ballistics is simple - you asked for flexibility. The PPC (say) is a  great weapon, but like almost all energy weapons it does one thing well - tear big chunks off of mechs and vees at range. Even though ballistics are "inefficient", their very ammo dependence adds something to the unit - it's a small-scale equivalent to Omni design.

The plasma, LBX-10, and Lpulse (#1, #2 and #4 choices for me) win at pure multitasking: you don't have to add or subtract anything from the guns to make taking a design with them always worthwhile.  The reason the LPL falls farther behind is a matter of taste - I don't usually put a LPL on most of my own designs, but I've never been disappointed in its performance when I play a canon design with one. All three guns (along with the latter pair's less-useful, but still entertaining cousins) have massive tactical flexibility, although they're still restricted to 2-3  roles in any one game.

On the other hand, the LAC-5 (my #3 vote) and other basic autocannon can readily swap ammunition depending on the mech's mission profile. It has a strategic flexibility the other guns simply can't match. It's is an ER medium ( a fine, fine weapon) with the option to add anything from  TAC-hunting to a ghetto tarcomp in-between missions. In much the same way, any missile launcher can suddenly become something much different depending on what you need here, now, on the field. SRMs  and cLRMs have less flex than isLRMs, which of course have less than MMLs, but each has its own uses.

One of the reasons MRMs seem so "useless" is that they have nothing but the most basic ammo - play with them in a intro rules match, and they suddenly feel a lot more like what they're supposed to be (a cheapy answer to the Clanner LRM's multirange ability). It's a nice bonus, but even with their large potential damage the small amount of tactical flex it adds simply doesn't make up for the lack of strategic options in this contest.

[IndyRI]

@Schottenjaeger
Oh, I understand the difference in terms. I would never recommend the PPC, for the simple reason that it does exactly as you described: one thing. It does it very, very well, but it still lacks in versatility and flexibility. I was more curious about the fact that ACs were pulling in so many votes. While they're flexible, you really make the chocie between a good crit-seeker (LB/X), firepower (Ultra), or general flexibility (AC and LAC). And what flexibility you get from the LAC or AC is limited, as only the Precision, and occasionally the Armor Piercing, ammo are really ever worthwhile. Whereas with missiles you receive even greater tactical flexibility, greater general utility, etc. I'm less down on ACs than I simply think there are other weapons that are far more flexible.

The Plasma Rifle is an excellent weapon capable of dealing damage, causing heat, killing combined arms, anti-air, starting fires, etc.

Missiles I already described.

Flamers are excellent multi-use tools for starting fires, clearing infantry, causing heat

Large Pulse Lasers lack some general flexibility, but are able to capably engage virtually any non-infantry target.

I was just surprised that the ACs won out over some of these designs, not that they lack flexibility and utility.

[Crunch]

@Schottenjaeger
Oh, I understand the difference in terms. I would never recommend the PPC, for the simple reason that it does exactly as you described: one thing. It does it very, very well, but it still lacks in versatility and flexibility. I was more curious about the fact that ACs were pulling in so many votes. While they're flexible, you really make the chocie between a good crit-seeker (LB/X), firepower (Ultra), or general flexibility (AC and LAC). And what flexibility you get from the LAC or AC is limited, as only the Precision, and occasionally the Armor Piercing, ammo are really ever worthwhile. Whereas with missiles you receive even greater tactical flexibility, greater general utility, etc. I'm less down on ACs than I simply think there are other weapons that are far more flexible.

The LB-X does a number of things well. It's flak bonus makes it among the best at anti aircraft and Anti VTOL work. It's excellent anti vehicle gun with it's cluster ammunition having a good chance to crit just about any vee into immobility in short order, and the to hit bonus of cluster makes it generally useful against fast movers. When you combine that with good hole punching and the ability to switch back and forth between the two during a battle you get multi role weapon that doesn't cripple you against mechs.

As for specialty ammo, while Precision is the golden child, AP, Flak, Caseless, Tracer, and Flechette all have roles to fill depending on your situation.

[Schottenjaeger]

Righto. I was pointing out my logic for going with the autos as my secondary choice - they're best when not viewed as an independent weapon, I feel.
The LBx isn't just a critseeking auto, for example, it's really "PPC+" - in this case, plus anti-air and to a certain extent, anti-infantry capability that happens to stack with its critseeking. It also gains a significant anti-Light mech capability - sandblasting at a -1 TN is actually a viable strategy against flankers. Likewise, the LAC-5 is "MLaser+". The Ultras just (potentially) do more of the same, and I see them as a much less flexible system. The only one I've really had success with is the UAC-2, which is one of the tiny handful of good long-range infantry killers. Hilariously, I find that the Mauler is one of the best counters to infantry-based LRM spotting in the game - load her up with frag/mineclearing LRMs if you can, then start saturating hexes. I'm sure there's far better things for an Assault to be doing with its time, but it's still funny.

[IndyRI]

The LB-X does a number of things well. It's flak bonus makes it among the best at anti aircraft and Anti VTOL work. It's excellent anti vehicle gun with it's cluster ammunition having a good chance to crit just about any vee into immobility in short order, and the to hit bonus of cluster makes it generally useful against fast movers. When you combine that with good hole punching and the ability to switch back and forth between the two during a battle you get multi role weapon that doesn't cripple you against mechs.

Again, not arguing that it doesn't. It just is generally outclassed by several other weapons in terms of flexibility IMHO. Not saying I'm right and you're wrong. I'm just surprised based on my own feelings and the general sentiment on these boards, that ACs got so much love.

As for specialty ammo, while Precision is the golden child, AP, Flak, Caseless, Tracer, and Flechette all have roles to fill depending on your situation.

See, I'm not a huge fan here. They all have uses, but that's a whole lot of ammunition bins you need on a mech to be able to use them. Most LRM and SRM specialty rounds have enough use in and of themselves that they can be used by themselves or with normal ammunition to supplement. With AC ammo, you're fulfilling one very narrow role with each one (Precision aside), which means that it is harder to utilize the weapon without carrying even more ammo types for the variety of different roles. I love the idea of special AC ammo, but by and large it's been underwhelming.

[Schottenjaeger]

...With AC ammo, you're fulfilling one very narrow role with each one (Precision aside), which means that it is harder to utilize the weapon without carrying even more ammo types for the variety of different roles. I love the idea of special AC ammo, but by and large it's been underwhelming.

-emph. added.


Here's the difference between what the AC fans are arguing and what you're arguing.

As long as I know what role I'm going to use the mech in before it hits dirt, I only have to load one or two types of ammo into the mech. Everything else stays in the MFB. It offers, again, a strategic flexibility. 2 tonnes of Precision and some slug are all I need for hunting rabbits. On the other hand, if I see ASFs on the other side of the table, I'll load up on Flak for one or two of my AC-carriers to free up tonnage for slugs in the LBX mech(s), which the ASF player is likely to prioritize in the early game.

If I see Lyran Archer dragging 2 companies of infantry and 4 Archers up, OTOH, it's time for Flechette - so I can drag his artillery out of cover quickly.

Once the models hit the map, yes, any individual load-out is less flexible than most of the other options. But the game starts long before the metal is in a hex..

[mutantmagnet]

The real answer is that LBX cluster ammo packs in a lot of flexibility for the same tonnage of other alternative ammo. As a result you aren't forced to overburden your mech with multiple tons of

That's why LBXs pretty much dominate among the autocannon votes.

But it's pathetic how the autocannon block as a group is unlike the voting distribution among SRMs, LRMs and MMLs where they are all having healthy numbers.


IMO LBX 10 doesn't qualify for the top 3 ammo in the game for flexibility.

Those would be:

Plasma rifle -
Does full damage to battle armor simultaneously.
Has mild anti vehicle crit seeking abilities at moderate ranges.
Has highest probability of one shotting any VTOL (when it does connect LOL).
Does solid 10 point damage to any heat tracking unit.
Can reduce the DPS of heat tracking units or mess up their movement profile.
Just rips through infantry at ranges too long for most of them.

Airburst ammo-
Can be fired indirectly without a spotter.
Is a direct counter to stacks of doom strategies.
Most efficient (fittings wise) crit seeking long range weapon in the game.
Does full damage to battle armor.
Ignores so many defensive mods: stealth armor, AMS, movement, intervening woods and smoke.
Completely decimates infantry (unless they hide out in buildings).

Non-Homing Arrow IV-
It's LBX cluster ammo cranked to 11.
They both can perform flak fire but Arrow IV ammo can hit harder which allows it to one shot any VTOL and perform structural integrity crits on fighters on top everything else LBX clusters could do. It also hits more accurately.

They both can perform multiple crits on target but Arrow IV does it to multiple targets over multiple hexes and without sacrificing concentrated damage to do it. The big trade off to that is how inaccurate it is outside of preset hexes.

The fittings requirements for the weapon using it are large but overall the weapon sufficiently works with a lot more unit types than others which is one of the major factors that makes it a great flexible strategic weapon.

[The Hawk]

My money's also on the flamer, that granddaddy of the much-loved plasma rifle.  Under the TW ruleset, it has been transformed from a heavier machinegun with questionable utility into a great multirole tool that I'd be happy to have on almost any design.  For much less weight than the plasma rifle, too!

[mutantmagnet]

And for much less range too. Zing!  ;)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Non-Homing Arrow IV-
It's LBX cluster ammo cranked to 11.
They both can perform flak fire but Arrow IV ammo can hit harder which allows it to one shot any VTOL and perform structural integrity crits on fighters on top everything else LBX clusters could do. It also hits more accurately.

They both can perform multiple crits on target but Arrow IV does it to multiple targets over multiple hexes and without sacrificing concentrated damage to do it. The big trade off to that is how inaccurate it is outside of preset hexes.

The fittings requirements for the weapon using it are large but overall the weapon sufficiently works with a lot more unit types than others which is one of the major factors that makes it a great flexible strategic weapon.

Arrow IV shots can't hit aircraft unless you're using SAMs.  And they deal damage in clusters of 5, not 1, so they're more like LRM 20s that don't roll on the Cluster table and aren't affected by AMSs than LBX ACs.

[mutantmagnet]

Arrow IV shots can't hit aircraft unless you're using SAMs.  And they deal damage in clusters of 5, not 1, so they're more like LRM 20s that don't roll on the Cluster table and aren't affected by AMSs than LBX ACs.

It's in Tac Ops. Certain Arrow IV warheads can perform flak fire and Nonhoming is one of them.

Ofcourse they deal 5 damage. That's one of the things I'm implying when I state Arrow IV is LBX cranked to 11. You can exceed aerofighters' structural integrity threshold as well as forcing a control while LBX clusters can only do the control roll barring some rare exceptions.

[IndyRI]

As long as I know what role I'm going to use the mech in before it hits dirt, I only have to load one or two types of ammo into the mech. Everything else stays in the MFB. It offers, again, a strategic flexibility. 2 tonnes of Precision and some slug are all I need for hunting rabbits. On the other hand, if I see ASFs on the other side of the table, I'll load up on Flak for one or two of my AC-carriers to free up tonnage for slugs in the LBX mech(s), which the ASF player is likely to prioritize in the early game.

Once the models hit the map, yes, any individual load-out is less flexible than most of the other options. But the game starts long before the metal is in a hex..

Understood. However, with standard ACs, Precision is useful for handling flankers, armor piercing is occasionally good against things like heavily armored targets, etc. But my honest question is how the AC, or even the LBX AC, is more strategically useful than an LRM or even SRM launcher? LRMs can lay mines, deal damage in multiple hits, light fires, cause heat, wipe out infantry, fire indirectly, clear mines and even BA. SRMs can crit-seek, cause heat, kill vehicles almost outright, wipe out infantry, cause IS damage through armor, tear apart Ferro-Fibrous armor, etc. MMLs can do all these at once.

ACs are versatile, and useful, but I'm not sure I understand the choice of them over other offered weapons. I don't question the flexibility, just the relative utility.

[mutantmagnet]

armor piercing is occasionally good against things like heavily armored target

I should point out mathematically speaking armor piercing rounds getting a crit on any battlemech location are inferior to LBX clusters performing a TAC (when looking at weapons of the same size). The targeting penalty of the AP ammo and the targeting bonus of the cluster ammo is what causes this condition.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

There's also the matter of LB-X ACs having better ranges.

[IndyRI]

I should point out mathematically speaking armor piercing rounds getting a crit on any battlemech location are inferior to LBX clusters performing a TAC (when looking at weapons of the same size). The targeting penalty of the AP ammo and the targeting bonus of the cluster ammo is what causes this condition.

True but standard ACs can't use clusters. If you're designing from the ground up then you're right. If AP ammo is your goal, then you're probably better off going LB-X. But if you prefer the additional flexibility of a standard or light AC, for whatever reason, at least AP ammo offers that crit chance.

[majesticmoose]

My choices would be the MML5 and the AP guass.

Now, for the MML5, it's pretty obvious from previous posts, definitely variable range profiles, options for ammo (smoke, etc), and relatively weight efficient and heat efficient.  not the best but...

Also, it's worth noting that consolidated MML launchers (such as the 5 and 9) tend to be more weight efficient than large numbers of MML3's.


Now, the AP guass.  Not the best weapon (and I almost chose plasma rifle for all the great reasons cited in above posts) but the tonnage of the Plasma rifle limits it's inclusion on smaller units (and heat generation is a minor issue).  The AP guas has a decent range profile, and while ammo dependent and less damage then a ML, it has great anti infantry at a range, is DB not energy damage (so no special defensive tech exists to thwart it) and it's includable on almost any unit you can think of.  Locust IIC is a good example of how they can be arrayed to deal considerable damage for their weight ratio with almost no chance of over heat.  for the (tonnage) cost of one plasma, you could instal 10 ap guass, have an additional ton of ammo, and have more to-hit rolls for better average damage, plus be able to thwart intense numbers of conventional infantry. if only there was an ap guass array...

[Iron Mongoose]

I got in on the LB10 band wagon.  I think it is clear why, in a list with no GR, PPC or ML it would be the king.  Its actualy lighter than its predecessor, with more range, less heat, and some specal bonuses for cluster ammo.  Yes, with DHS I'd tend to have a PPC or ER PPC for sheer damage over it, but the ability to crit seek and to work over air and armor units makes it a great companion to the PPC or ER PPC, or to the GR. 

I also picked the LRM (15), which is really a lovely ranged weapon, with a fun mix of crits and damage clusters with its five pointers.  Clan LRMs of course are almost too good to be belived, but IS LRMs are eminantly usable, even in the GR era.  And again, they pair with PPCs and MLs extreemly nicely, with the ML covering the minimum almost perfictly, and the PPC or GR adding ranged hole punching.

I'd probably pick the SRM or MML after that.  I don't really perfer the MML most of the time, since I tend to like more specalized mechs, but on some big slow mechs, or mixed in on bodyguard type support mechs, they can shine.  Part of it two is my LRM bias; they're more closely on par with SRMs, so using them on a mech intended to be an infighter is less of a loss than using them on a mech indended as a support unit, and being able to shoot yourself in can be nice.

Probably some sort of pulse after that.  I'd probably go medium in either Clan or IS, but the Clan LPL is really majestic.  With the mediums, they're just light enough to serve as secondaries behind your LRMs or PPCs or GRs or LLs to keep mechs from closing, and you can still mount them on faster scout hunters, or on brawlers behind their SRMs.  The IS LPL is somewhat problematic, though hardly worthless,

[mutantmagnet]

I'd probably pick the SRM or MML after that.  I don't really perfer the MML most of the time, since I tend to like more specalized mechs, but on some big slow mechs, or mixed in on bodyguard type support mechs, they can shine.  Part of it two is my LRM bias; they're more closely on par with SRMs,

I also view the MMLs in a similar manner. The general design philosophy of most new tech was to take introductory level tech and extend the range or improve the accuracy. With that in mind I view MMLs as ER SRMs and MRMs as Pulse LRMs.

[IndyRI]

I also view the MMLs in a similar manner. The general design philosophy of most new tech was to take introductory level tech and extend the range or improve the accuracy. With that in mind I view MMLs as ER SRMs and MRMs as Pulse LRMs.

I hate to be frank, but how is either one of those an even remotely accurate comaprison? MRMs are less accurate, with a shorter range than LRMs. If anything, MRMs are ER SRMs, have the same short range but extended brackets and damage potential beyond that. Even so, the comparison is loose at best.

And MMLs are exactly what their name suggests. They can substitute an LRM launcher when you need the ability to launch SRMs to protect yourself at knife-sighting range, and they can replace SRMs when you want a little extra long range punch. They're hardly just SRMs with more range. Closer to that would be Clan ATM standard ammor.

[Wildonion]

Looking at the list I see a lot of good weapons to choose from, and while I agree that the LB-10/X and the Plasma Rifle are easily some of the best main guns you can find--not counting the usual gold standards like Gauss Rifles and Clan Pulse Lasers--I still voted for the LRM 15 and the Medium Pulse Laser. Together you have a weapons that pair well together on a chassis. The missiles provide long ranged fire, which can be enhanced with Artemis FCS or with TAG for more accurate indirect fire. The Pulse Lasers add accurate close ranged shots for when the enemy has gotten too far under your minimum range. Now I should say that I am assuming Inner Sphere tech here, but that doesn't mean that they are not good weapons for Clan pilots too.

[IndyRI]

Now I should say that I am assuming Inner Sphere tech here, but that doesn't mean that they are not good weapons for Clan pilots too.

They're both much, much better and far more versatile with Clan tech. They just lose the natural synergy due to the handy lack of a minimum range on Clan LRMs, which is still one of the great imbalancers of Clan Tech.

[Wildonion]

Always thought that Inner Sphere LRMs should get a minimum range of four (so that they can actually get some good shots in without mods) instead of 6 and Clans get a minimum of 2 or 3.

[mutantmagnet]

I hate to be frank, but how is either one of those an even remotely accurate comaprison? MRMs are less accurate, with a shorter range than LRMs. If anything, MRMs are ER SRMs, have the same short range but extended brackets and damage potential beyond that. Even so, the comparison is loose at best.

Pulse lasers offer better DPS at shorter ranges than their counterparts. Same goes for MRMs. Don't confuse clan pulses with IS pulses.

And MMLs are exactly what their name suggests. They can substitute an LRM launcher when you need the ability to launch SRMs to protect yourself at knife-sighting range, and they can replace SRMs when you want a little extra long range punch. They're hardly just SRMs with more range. Closer to that would be Clan ATM standard ammor.

 [edit] Nevermind. MMLs only flaw is crits which is an issue but not enough to declare MMLs as ER SRMs.

[majesticmoose]

Not changing my vote, but I have a new found respect for SRMs, espcially the larger launchers.  They just seem to ruin vehicles and battle armor.  not a swiss army weapon, but I'm a bit more impressed with them as of late.

[Ice_Trey]

No doubt in my mind, the SRM 6 is a "Swiss Army Knife" in the truest sense of the word.

Because while, yes, it can be fired with your vanilla dumbfire missiles, it can quickly be turned into murder for any vehicles, battle-armor, or infantry that should cross your path. Whenever I play a game that's likely to be combined arms, I'm more than likely bound to bring some SRM units to the field.

As for the MPL, while it's not going to win awards for being the most powerful, a low-cost -2 to hit weapon is always top of my list. On it's own, it won't win any wars, but pack a whole bunch on a jumper, and I'm a happy camper.

[Crunch]

No doubt in my mind, the SRM 6 is a "Swiss Army Knife" in the truest sense of the word.

Because while, yes, it can be fired with your vanilla dumbfire missiles, it can quickly be turned into murder for any vehicles, battle-armor, or infantry that should cross your path. Whenever I play a game that's likely to be combined arms, I'm more than likely bound to bring some SRM units to the field.

As for the MPL, while it's not going to win awards for being the most powerful, a low-cost -2 to hit weapon is always top of my list. On it's own, it won't win any wars, but pack a whole bunch on a jumper, and I'm a happy camper.

The problem with either SRMs or LRMs as a "Swiss Army Weapon" is that MMLs can fill all of their roles in one launcher.

[Onisuzume]

The problem with either SRMs or LRMs as a "Swiss Army Weapon" is that MMLs can fill all of their roles in one launcher.

If only with less LRM tubes.
Lets see... 3 tubes? Poor in both accounts. 5 Tubes? LRM-5 capable of launching SRMs. 7 and 9 tubes actually see some improvement... for the SRM part. They're utterly inferior on the LRM part.
At least the SRM-3 makes sense, tonnage-wise.

[Crunch]

If only with less LRM tubes.
Lets see... 3 tubes? Poor in both accounts. 5 Tubes? LRM-5 capable of launching SRMs. 7 and 9 tubes actually see some improvement... for the SRM part. They're utterly inferior on the LRM part.
At least the SRM-3 makes sense, tonnage-wise.

LRMs and SRMs are certainly both more efficient at their specialized roles, but the MML offers unparalleled flexibility which is what this conversation is about.

[IndyRI]

Pulse lasers offer better DPS at shorter ranges than their counterparts. Same goes for MRMs. Don't confuse clan pulses with IS pulses.

Well even so you have to be at no further than range 3 to get any benefit compared to LRMs. In fact, at range 5-6, LRMs are still more accurate. And while MRMs do more damage per shot, the damage per ton isn't that great.

EDIT: Looked at the wrong field in the tech readout for LRM 10.

[mutantmagnet]

Well even so you have to be at no further than range 3 to get any benefit compared to LRMs. In fact, at range 5-6, LRMs are still more accurate.

The same problem exists with pulse lasers. The comparison holds.

And while MRMs do more damage per shot, the damage per ton isn't that great. Hell, an MRM 10 is heavier than an LRM 10 by .5 tons.

MRM 10 is 3 tons 4 heat to the LRM 10's 5 tons 4 heat. Also MRMs are the most ammo efficient weapon in the game storing 240 points of potential damage per ton.

Besides the more apt comparison is MRM 10 with twin LRM 5 and so on with each iterative increase of LRM and MRM size.

[IndyRI]

The same problem exists with pulse lasers. The comparison holds.

And Pulse Lasers in the IS get a -2 to their TH rather than a +1, and deal only a single point above the standard damage by and large. The principles behind how and why they differ from their "parent" designs are completely different. Besides, keep in mind that IS Pulse lasers are largely considered borderline worthless by most players.

MRM 10 is 3 tons 4 heat to the LRM 10's 5 tons 4 heat. Also MRMs are the most ammo efficient weapon in the game storing 240 points of potential damage per ton.

Which means that for 2 tons you sacrifice the long range, special munitions, and general accuracy of the LRMs to lose the minimum range. MRMs aren't worthless, but they aren't "Pulse LRMs" even in the loosest of terms. They're mass-damage weapons for extreme in-fighting or for use with an aggressive C3 system.

[mutantmagnet]

And Pulse Lasers in the IS get a -2 to their TH rather than a +1, and deal only a single point above the standard damage by and large. The principles behind how and why they differ from their "parent" designs are completely different. Besides, keep in mind that IS Pulse lasers are largely considered borderline worthless by most players.

And LRMs have a minimum range so horrid MRMs are like pulse lasers to them.

Which means that for 2 tons you sacrifice the long range, special munitions, and general accuracy of the LRMs to lose the minimum range. MRMs aren't worthless, but they aren't "Pulse LRMs" even in the loosest of terms. They're mass-damage weapons for extreme in-fighting or for use with an aggressive C3 system.

Bringing up C3 is a non sequitur. Pulse lasers are also about extreme in-fighting as well.

Regardless I'm already well aware of pulse lasers unique qualities that make them unlike MRMs which is why I'm generally an advocate of them and a derider of MRMs.

But when analyzing the weapon advancements from introductory tech to what was formally called level 2 gear it is obvious the designers major design focus was to take the same weapon and make it shoot farther or hit harder at closer ranges in a unique fashion.

That's how I drew the conclusion MRMs are analogous to pulse lasers...


... and I also look at snub nosed ppcs in the same manner  ;) :P

[IndyRI]

And LRMs have a minimum range so horrid MRMs are like pulse lasers to them.

Not really. Again, you have to be halway into the LRMs minimum range to start seeing any benefit whatsoever.

Bringing up C3 is a non sequitur. Pulse lasers are also about extreme in-fighting as well.

I was just referencing the primary use of MRMs for a lot of players. The primary way to get around their disadvantages. All the same though, it is fairly non sequitur, so moving on.

But when analyzing the weapon advancements from introductory tech to what was formally called level 2 gear it is obvious the designers major design focus was to take the same weapon and make it shoot farther or hit harder at closer ranges in a unique fashion.
That's how I drew the conclusion MRMs are analogous to pulse lasers...

Except that MRMs are less accurate, only receiving a benefit at extremely close ranges that would make even an MPL blush, and are less accurate at any range beyond 4, with less range as well. The harder hitting part holds true, but that would make it more again to a Heavy PPC versus Standard PPC than a Pulse Laser versus Standard Laser. One way or the other though, we're arguing degrees of difference now. At least I udnerstand how you arrived at your conclusion, even if I personally disagree with it.

... and I also look at snub nosed ppcs in the same manner  ;) :P

This one I will agree on. They accomplish the same general idea but with different means. Still a niche weapon. Definitely better than IS Pulses in most cases though.

[Kit deSummersville]

Not really. Again, you have to be halway into the LRMs minimum range to start seeing any benefit whatsoever.

Well, you get the damage benefit at 15 hexes.

[IndyRI]

For a +1 to hit, and significantly greater with range brackets taken into account. Accuracy is highly underrated in CBT.

[Kit deSummersville]

I was just pointing out that no "benefits whatsoever" at range might be a bit errant. Definitely trade-offs.

[IndyRI]

I was just pointing out that no "benefits whatsoever" at range might be a bit errant. Definitely trade-offs.

A fair point but even then, the weight benefits aren't huge. Present, but not huge. Is it a trade-off? Yes. But it's rarely one that will work in the MRMs favor. And even so, that does nothing to justify it as a "Pulse LRM"

[Kit deSummersville]

A fair point but even then, the weight benefits aren't huge. Present, but not huge. Is it a trade-off? Yes. But it's rarely one that will work in the MRMs favor. And even so, that does nothing to justify it as a "Pulse LRM"

It's huge if your dice only roll 6s!

Not that I advocate loaded dice, just anti-Hellbies.

 8)

[Demos]

Late, but I voted for LBX10 and Plasma Rifle.

Solid Punch, Crit Seeker, AI, Flak, combined with good range

[IndyRI]

It's huge if your dice only roll 6s!

Not that I advocate loaded dice, just anti-Hellbies.

LoL. Well let me know next time you go to Vegas, because we're playing craps with your dice.

[Minemech]

 If one does not have any other forms of electronic warfare, while your enemy does the iNarc can be very useful despite its glaring weakness.

[Kit deSummersville]

LoL. Well let me know next time you go to Vegas, because we're playing craps with your dice.

I wish, my Flamingo dice are legendary in their ability and would quickly be banned in Nevada.

[Doug Glendower]

LB10-X: It can blow holes or exploit them, and is the only IS LB to get the weight break the original fluff kinda promised us.

Light AC-5: This allows pretty good use of all that ammo the Davions leave lying around the place, in a far more combat-capable version than the LAC 2. In all honesty, I'll pay for the AC-2 for the range, since I'm never going to get the damage.

[IndyRI]

Light AC-5: This allows pretty good use of all that ammo the Davions leave lying around the place, in a far more combat-capable version than the LAC 2. In all honesty, I'll pay for the AC-2 for the range, since I'm never going to get the damage.

I will agree here. If you're going to go with a weapon so lacking in damage, you almost have to at least commit to the one thing that makes it stand out: range. Without the range, AC/2s are just oversized and overranged Micro Lasers. At least with the range you can plink away at extreme distance until everyone else ragequits.

[Havock]

LB10-X gets my vote. It is the avatar of 'jack of all trades, master of none'-weaponry.

[Akalabeth]

No Ultra AC/10? bah