Best Swiss Army weapons

[Iron Mongoose]

I got in on the LB10 band wagon.  I think it is clear why, in a list with no GR, PPC or ML it would be the king.  Its actualy lighter than its predecessor, with more range, less heat, and some specal bonuses for cluster ammo.  Yes, with DHS I'd tend to have a PPC or ER PPC for sheer damage over it, but the ability to crit seek and to work over air and armor units makes it a great companion to the PPC or ER PPC, or to the GR. 

I also picked the LRM (15), which is really a lovely ranged weapon, with a fun mix of crits and damage clusters with its five pointers.  Clan LRMs of course are almost too good to be belived, but IS LRMs are eminantly usable, even in the GR era.  And again, they pair with PPCs and MLs extreemly nicely, with the ML covering the minimum almost perfictly, and the PPC or GR adding ranged hole punching.

I'd probably pick the SRM or MML after that.  I don't really perfer the MML most of the time, since I tend to like more specalized mechs, but on some big slow mechs, or mixed in on bodyguard type support mechs, they can shine.  Part of it two is my LRM bias; they're more closely on par with SRMs, so using them on a mech intended to be an infighter is less of a loss than using them on a mech indended as a support unit, and being able to shoot yourself in can be nice.

Probably some sort of pulse after that.  I'd probably go medium in either Clan or IS, but the Clan LPL is really majestic.  With the mediums, they're just light enough to serve as secondaries behind your LRMs or PPCs or GRs or LLs to keep mechs from closing, and you can still mount them on faster scout hunters, or on brawlers behind their SRMs.  The IS LPL is somewhat problematic, though hardly worthless,

[mutantmagnet]

I'd probably pick the SRM or MML after that.  I don't really perfer the MML most of the time, since I tend to like more specalized mechs, but on some big slow mechs, or mixed in on bodyguard type support mechs, they can shine.  Part of it two is my LRM bias; they're more closely on par with SRMs,

I also view the MMLs in a similar manner. The general design philosophy of most new tech was to take introductory level tech and extend the range or improve the accuracy. With that in mind I view MMLs as ER SRMs and MRMs as Pulse LRMs.

[IndyRI]

I also view the MMLs in a similar manner. The general design philosophy of most new tech was to take introductory level tech and extend the range or improve the accuracy. With that in mind I view MMLs as ER SRMs and MRMs as Pulse LRMs.

I hate to be frank, but how is either one of those an even remotely accurate comaprison? MRMs are less accurate, with a shorter range than LRMs. If anything, MRMs are ER SRMs, have the same short range but extended brackets and damage potential beyond that. Even so, the comparison is loose at best.

And MMLs are exactly what their name suggests. They can substitute an LRM launcher when you need the ability to launch SRMs to protect yourself at knife-sighting range, and they can replace SRMs when you want a little extra long range punch. They're hardly just SRMs with more range. Closer to that would be Clan ATM standard ammor.

[Wildonion]

Looking at the list I see a lot of good weapons to choose from, and while I agree that the LB-10/X and the Plasma Rifle are easily some of the best main guns you can find--not counting the usual gold standards like Gauss Rifles and Clan Pulse Lasers--I still voted for the LRM 15 and the Medium Pulse Laser. Together you have a weapons that pair well together on a chassis. The missiles provide long ranged fire, which can be enhanced with Artemis FCS or with TAG for more accurate indirect fire. The Pulse Lasers add accurate close ranged shots for when the enemy has gotten too far under your minimum range. Now I should say that I am assuming Inner Sphere tech here, but that doesn't mean that they are not good weapons for Clan pilots too.

[IndyRI]

Now I should say that I am assuming Inner Sphere tech here, but that doesn't mean that they are not good weapons for Clan pilots too.

They're both much, much better and far more versatile with Clan tech. They just lose the natural synergy due to the handy lack of a minimum range on Clan LRMs, which is still one of the great imbalancers of Clan Tech.

[Wildonion]

Always thought that Inner Sphere LRMs should get a minimum range of four (so that they can actually get some good shots in without mods) instead of 6 and Clans get a minimum of 2 or 3.

[mutantmagnet]

I hate to be frank, but how is either one of those an even remotely accurate comaprison? MRMs are less accurate, with a shorter range than LRMs. If anything, MRMs are ER SRMs, have the same short range but extended brackets and damage potential beyond that. Even so, the comparison is loose at best.

Pulse lasers offer better DPS at shorter ranges than their counterparts. Same goes for MRMs. Don't confuse clan pulses with IS pulses.

And MMLs are exactly what their name suggests. They can substitute an LRM launcher when you need the ability to launch SRMs to protect yourself at knife-sighting range, and they can replace SRMs when you want a little extra long range punch. They're hardly just SRMs with more range. Closer to that would be Clan ATM standard ammor.

 [edit] Nevermind. MMLs only flaw is crits which is an issue but not enough to declare MMLs as ER SRMs.

[majesticmoose]

Not changing my vote, but I have a new found respect for SRMs, espcially the larger launchers.  They just seem to ruin vehicles and battle armor.  not a swiss army weapon, but I'm a bit more impressed with them as of late.

[Ice_Trey]

No doubt in my mind, the SRM 6 is a "Swiss Army Knife" in the truest sense of the word.

Because while, yes, it can be fired with your vanilla dumbfire missiles, it can quickly be turned into murder for any vehicles, battle-armor, or infantry that should cross your path. Whenever I play a game that's likely to be combined arms, I'm more than likely bound to bring some SRM units to the field.

As for the MPL, while it's not going to win awards for being the most powerful, a low-cost -2 to hit weapon is always top of my list. On it's own, it won't win any wars, but pack a whole bunch on a jumper, and I'm a happy camper.

[Crunch]

No doubt in my mind, the SRM 6 is a "Swiss Army Knife" in the truest sense of the word.

Because while, yes, it can be fired with your vanilla dumbfire missiles, it can quickly be turned into murder for any vehicles, battle-armor, or infantry that should cross your path. Whenever I play a game that's likely to be combined arms, I'm more than likely bound to bring some SRM units to the field.

As for the MPL, while it's not going to win awards for being the most powerful, a low-cost -2 to hit weapon is always top of my list. On it's own, it won't win any wars, but pack a whole bunch on a jumper, and I'm a happy camper.

The problem with either SRMs or LRMs as a "Swiss Army Weapon" is that MMLs can fill all of their roles in one launcher.

[Onisuzume]

The problem with either SRMs or LRMs as a "Swiss Army Weapon" is that MMLs can fill all of their roles in one launcher.

If only with less LRM tubes.
Lets see... 3 tubes? Poor in both accounts. 5 Tubes? LRM-5 capable of launching SRMs. 7 and 9 tubes actually see some improvement... for the SRM part. They're utterly inferior on the LRM part.
At least the SRM-3 makes sense, tonnage-wise.

[Crunch]

If only with less LRM tubes.
Lets see... 3 tubes? Poor in both accounts. 5 Tubes? LRM-5 capable of launching SRMs. 7 and 9 tubes actually see some improvement... for the SRM part. They're utterly inferior on the LRM part.
At least the SRM-3 makes sense, tonnage-wise.

LRMs and SRMs are certainly both more efficient at their specialized roles, but the MML offers unparalleled flexibility which is what this conversation is about.

[IndyRI]

Pulse lasers offer better DPS at shorter ranges than their counterparts. Same goes for MRMs. Don't confuse clan pulses with IS pulses.

Well even so you have to be at no further than range 3 to get any benefit compared to LRMs. In fact, at range 5-6, LRMs are still more accurate. And while MRMs do more damage per shot, the damage per ton isn't that great.

EDIT: Looked at the wrong field in the tech readout for LRM 10.

[mutantmagnet]

Well even so you have to be at no further than range 3 to get any benefit compared to LRMs. In fact, at range 5-6, LRMs are still more accurate.

The same problem exists with pulse lasers. The comparison holds.

And while MRMs do more damage per shot, the damage per ton isn't that great. Hell, an MRM 10 is heavier than an LRM 10 by .5 tons.

MRM 10 is 3 tons 4 heat to the LRM 10's 5 tons 4 heat. Also MRMs are the most ammo efficient weapon in the game storing 240 points of potential damage per ton.

Besides the more apt comparison is MRM 10 with twin LRM 5 and so on with each iterative increase of LRM and MRM size.

[IndyRI]

The same problem exists with pulse lasers. The comparison holds.

And Pulse Lasers in the IS get a -2 to their TH rather than a +1, and deal only a single point above the standard damage by and large. The principles behind how and why they differ from their "parent" designs are completely different. Besides, keep in mind that IS Pulse lasers are largely considered borderline worthless by most players.

MRM 10 is 3 tons 4 heat to the LRM 10's 5 tons 4 heat. Also MRMs are the most ammo efficient weapon in the game storing 240 points of potential damage per ton.

Which means that for 2 tons you sacrifice the long range, special munitions, and general accuracy of the LRMs to lose the minimum range. MRMs aren't worthless, but they aren't "Pulse LRMs" even in the loosest of terms. They're mass-damage weapons for extreme in-fighting or for use with an aggressive C3 system.

[mutantmagnet]

And Pulse Lasers in the IS get a -2 to their TH rather than a +1, and deal only a single point above the standard damage by and large. The principles behind how and why they differ from their "parent" designs are completely different. Besides, keep in mind that IS Pulse lasers are largely considered borderline worthless by most players.

And LRMs have a minimum range so horrid MRMs are like pulse lasers to them.

Which means that for 2 tons you sacrifice the long range, special munitions, and general accuracy of the LRMs to lose the minimum range. MRMs aren't worthless, but they aren't "Pulse LRMs" even in the loosest of terms. They're mass-damage weapons for extreme in-fighting or for use with an aggressive C3 system.

Bringing up C3 is a non sequitur. Pulse lasers are also about extreme in-fighting as well.

Regardless I'm already well aware of pulse lasers unique qualities that make them unlike MRMs which is why I'm generally an advocate of them and a derider of MRMs.

But when analyzing the weapon advancements from introductory tech to what was formally called level 2 gear it is obvious the designers major design focus was to take the same weapon and make it shoot farther or hit harder at closer ranges in a unique fashion.

That's how I drew the conclusion MRMs are analogous to pulse lasers...


... and I also look at snub nosed ppcs in the same manner  ;) :P

[IndyRI]

And LRMs have a minimum range so horrid MRMs are like pulse lasers to them.

Not really. Again, you have to be halway into the LRMs minimum range to start seeing any benefit whatsoever.

Bringing up C3 is a non sequitur. Pulse lasers are also about extreme in-fighting as well.

I was just referencing the primary use of MRMs for a lot of players. The primary way to get around their disadvantages. All the same though, it is fairly non sequitur, so moving on.

But when analyzing the weapon advancements from introductory tech to what was formally called level 2 gear it is obvious the designers major design focus was to take the same weapon and make it shoot farther or hit harder at closer ranges in a unique fashion.
That's how I drew the conclusion MRMs are analogous to pulse lasers...

Except that MRMs are less accurate, only receiving a benefit at extremely close ranges that would make even an MPL blush, and are less accurate at any range beyond 4, with less range as well. The harder hitting part holds true, but that would make it more again to a Heavy PPC versus Standard PPC than a Pulse Laser versus Standard Laser. One way or the other though, we're arguing degrees of difference now. At least I udnerstand how you arrived at your conclusion, even if I personally disagree with it.

... and I also look at snub nosed ppcs in the same manner  ;) :P

This one I will agree on. They accomplish the same general idea but with different means. Still a niche weapon. Definitely better than IS Pulses in most cases though.

[Kit deSummersville]

Not really. Again, you have to be halway into the LRMs minimum range to start seeing any benefit whatsoever.

Well, you get the damage benefit at 15 hexes.

[IndyRI]

For a +1 to hit, and significantly greater with range brackets taken into account. Accuracy is highly underrated in CBT.

[Kit deSummersville]

I was just pointing out that no "benefits whatsoever" at range might be a bit errant. Definitely trade-offs.

[IndyRI]

I was just pointing out that no "benefits whatsoever" at range might be a bit errant. Definitely trade-offs.

A fair point but even then, the weight benefits aren't huge. Present, but not huge. Is it a trade-off? Yes. But it's rarely one that will work in the MRMs favor. And even so, that does nothing to justify it as a "Pulse LRM"

[Kit deSummersville]

A fair point but even then, the weight benefits aren't huge. Present, but not huge. Is it a trade-off? Yes. But it's rarely one that will work in the MRMs favor. And even so, that does nothing to justify it as a "Pulse LRM"

It's huge if your dice only roll 6s!

Not that I advocate loaded dice, just anti-Hellbies.

 8)

[Demos]

Late, but I voted for LBX10 and Plasma Rifle.

Solid Punch, Crit Seeker, AI, Flak, combined with good range

[IndyRI]

It's huge if your dice only roll 6s!

Not that I advocate loaded dice, just anti-Hellbies.

LoL. Well let me know next time you go to Vegas, because we're playing craps with your dice.

[Minemech]

 If one does not have any other forms of electronic warfare, while your enemy does the iNarc can be very useful despite its glaring weakness.

[Kit deSummersville]

LoL. Well let me know next time you go to Vegas, because we're playing craps with your dice.

I wish, my Flamingo dice are legendary in their ability and would quickly be banned in Nevada.

[Doug Glendower]

LB10-X: It can blow holes or exploit them, and is the only IS LB to get the weight break the original fluff kinda promised us.

Light AC-5: This allows pretty good use of all that ammo the Davions leave lying around the place, in a far more combat-capable version than the LAC 2. In all honesty, I'll pay for the AC-2 for the range, since I'm never going to get the damage.

[IndyRI]

Light AC-5: This allows pretty good use of all that ammo the Davions leave lying around the place, in a far more combat-capable version than the LAC 2. In all honesty, I'll pay for the AC-2 for the range, since I'm never going to get the damage.

I will agree here. If you're going to go with a weapon so lacking in damage, you almost have to at least commit to the one thing that makes it stand out: range. Without the range, AC/2s are just oversized and overranged Micro Lasers. At least with the range you can plink away at extreme distance until everyone else ragequits.

[Havock]

LB10-X gets my vote. It is the avatar of 'jack of all trades, master of none'-weaponry.

[Akalabeth]

No Ultra AC/10? bah