Author Topic: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee  (Read 28557 times)

Scotty

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'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« on: 19 July 2015, 22:46:28 »
I'm going to keep the preamble short today.  This article is going to be hell, and that's partially why I'm doing it.  I've had the Banshee reserved for a loooooong time on the regular 'Mech of the Week schedule, and it came up this week on the Alpha Strike schedule, so here we are.  A double whammy (with a bit of Alpha Strike mechanics explained on the side, as always) including 17 different variants ranging from one of the oldest designs ever built to one of the newer designs to roll out of a factory.  Format for this one is going to go Alpha Strike unit card, standard rules overview, Alpha Strike overview, and then a much, much more in depth look at the unit conversions than we usually see, so people can get a good idea of what those values mean at a glance for the unit 'underneath'.  Strap yourselves in, because this is going to suck really good.  [Author's note: as of the time I write this, the article is 6400 words long and stretches across 10 pages of word.  I have just breached the halfway point.  I fully expect this to be the longest article ever posted on any iteration of the BT forums.  God help me.]



Alright, deep breath, here we go.  The original Banshee, the BNC-1E, first rolled off the lines in 2445, produced by the Terran Hegemony.  In an odd occurrence for BattleTech, we're actually given hard numbers for this one.  Five thousand Banshee -1Es were produced in a ten year period.  That's a lot.  It's even more when you realize that of the five thousand initially produced, the vast majority went to second line and militia postings, where they would remain relatively unscathed by the vicious Succession Wars.  We'll get to more of that later.  For now, the part you all wanted: what makes this beast tick.

With an entry date that early, the fact that the -1E is a primitive 'Mech should surprise no one.  At 95 tons, it takes a 345 rated primitive engine to move the 'Mech to a pedestrian 54 kph at a run, at the cost of a mere 28.5 tons.  At least it matches the venerable Mackie, and outpaces infantry.  The cockpit is similarly primitive, massing five full tons, rather than the normal three.  Just about every component on this 'Mech that can be primitive is primitive.

That extends to the armor, too.  The coverage is an even 240 points, 22.5 tons to get there, and if my display on SSW is to be believed wasting a point of armor in order to get that even number.  Even if it is inefficient in the extreme, that much armor is pretty significant, and laid out in an intelligent manner.  The center torso can take a pair of AC/20 hits, which is more than can be said for some entire Light 'Mechs.  Each side torso can take three AC/10s or PPCs.  The arms can take two of the same hits, with the barest sliver of armor left.  The legs can take two plus a Medium Laser and have the same tiny sliver left.  In an oddity among older designs the head mounts the full complement of 9 points.  Rear torsos are hefty but not extraordinarily so.  The sides can take a single PPC or AC/10 hit and maintain integrity but little else, while the center can take the same blast plus a Medium Laser and keep a little bit.  All around some pretty good coverage, even if it's only a bit more than 80% of what an frame this size can carry.  Primitives had some limitations that made that maximum a magnificent bonus rather than a standard design practice..  Clearly, the Banshee didn't skimp on the armor portion of the armor/firepower/speed triangle.

The guns tell us exactly where skimping happened.  Encompassing the entire extent of the Banshee -1E's weaponry is an AC/5 in the left torso, a Prototype PPC in the right, two Medium Lasers in the center, and a Small Laser in the head.  That wouldn't be out of place on a Medium.  On a high-end Assault, it's anemic in the extreme.  For those not familiar, the Prototype PPC has the same range and damage as a standard PPC, but generates 15 heat rather than 10.  Considering that the -1E has exactly 16 single heat sinks, this is problematic.  It generates exactly zero net heat when walking and firing only the PPC which... is not good.  Anything else, and the heat scale feels it.  A running alpha bumps the -1E up to +10 on the heat scale.  Not cool.  Two tons of ammunition feed the AC/5, arguably significantly over-ammoing it, especially since at the time of its introduction specialty ammunition wasn't exactly en vogue.  With a maximum engagement range of 540 meters and very little chance of doing significant damage at just about any range without crippling itself, the -1E leaves a whole lot to be desired offensively.  A full set of arm actuators does mean that physicals are an option if you ever get in range.  With how slow the Banshee is, that's not particularly likely, but at least it's something.

That's where Alpha Strike comes in.  That unit card up there looks a damn sight better than the 'Mech I just described, doesn't it?  Movement isn't particularly excellent, but it's enough for a +1 TMM.  Size 4 means good physicals.  The armor, much like in standard scale, is pretty sweet.  Eight points for armor and eight points for structure, a total of 16 points.  That's enough to take the ASMOTW's trademark Thud for no fewer than five solid hits.  That's setting a high bar.

Weapons are much, much better than the basic -1E in standard, but they're still not really great.  A damage block of 3/3/2 with no OV is serviceable clear up into the Clan Invasion, particularly the two points of long range damage.  Being able to shoot back at long range makes the -1E's hideous lack of heavy firepower vanish entirely.  There are no Specials, but given how efficient the -1E is at grinding away at your opponents, that's easily forgiven.  For once.  This is the kind of 'Mech that goes and goes and goes and doesn't die until you put it down, and the whole time it's boring a hole in your armor.

And it does it cheap, too.  Forty PV for this kind of well balanced grinding assault 'Mech is a steal.  You get average damage up close, good damage at long range, and enough armor and structure to make sure that keeps happening for a good long while.  Not dangerous enough to focus down, not vulnerable enough to take out in a stray hit or two.  The Sniper role is a good fit, too.  Snipers are one of the viable options for making Assault Lances and Fire Lances, two of the better lance types in the game for their abilities, even after the recent errata that disallows the use of Sniper on indirect fire attacks.

And now for what's probably the primary attraction for this article.  How does this 'Mech go from dud of colossal proportions (literally) to hidden gem of Alpha Strike?  That's what I'm here to help you find out.  Let's start at the same place as the normal construction process, and we'll keep that trend for the rest of the article, where it's not being needlessly redundant.

Structure points in Alpha Strike are determined by the type of internal structure, the mass of the 'Mech, and the type of engine it uses.  In the case of a 95 tonner with primitive (or standard) structure and a standard engine, we get 8 points.  It's a table, simple as that.  Something 20 tons gets 2 points for that combination of characteristics.  Something 50 tons gets 4.  Pretty simple.  Using Composite Structure cuts that in half, rounded up.  Reinforced Structure doubles it.  You can get some pretty damn tough 'Mechs like that, and you can get some pretty damn flimsy ones.  The Banshee ends up as pretty damn tough.  There's nothing tougher with introductory tech, at least in the structure category.

Armor seems like a pretty logical place to go next.  In Alpha Strike, 30 points of armor translates to one bubble, but it should be noted that fractions round normally.  In such a fashion, it really only takes 15 points of armor to hit the very first point in Alpha Strike, making it so that literally anything with a single ton of standard armor gets a point.  A 95 ton bipedal 'Mech has a maximum armor value of 293 points.  With what I just said, having that maximum value translates to 10 points of armor.  The -1E does not have the maximum value, instead having exactly 240 points.  That converts quickly and painlessly into 8 points.  That's how we get our 8/8 A/S.

Movement in this case is similarly painless.  For most 'Mechs, MV is simply the walking MP multiplied by 2”.  There are some options, like MASC and Superchargers that will alter that.  Jump jets translate exactly the same way, on a unit that has them, a quick and easy 2” per jump MP.  TMM is calculated based on the maximum possible MV for ground movement.  In this Banshee's case, 6” is good for a +1.

I do believe that leads us to the guns.  Alpha Strike calculates overall weapon damage based on several factors, but the primary one is that weapon's own damage.  The general rule is a weapon's damage divided by 10, or something close to its average damage if it's a cluster weapon.  Minimum range and to-hit bonuses are included in this calculation.  A PPC, for example, has damage values of 0.75/1/1, while a Medium Laser sports 0.5/0.5/-.  Add all damage values at all ranges together for the unmodified total.  This particular 'Mech has a PPC (Prototype PPCs have the same damage, higher heat), AC/5, two Medium Lasers, and a Small Laser: 0.75/1/1, 0.375/0.5/0.5, 0.5/0.5/-, 0.3/-/-.  Adding up all of those numbers across range bands, we come to a total of: 2.425/2.5/1.5.

Here's the tricky part, where we check for how heat affects those values.  The formula is more complex than most things in Alpha Strike, in that you have three operations in the same function.  Heat modified damage is equal to the base damage times the total dissipation on your unit, divided by four less than the maximum heat generation, counting movement and defensive equipment.  This value is calculated for all ranges individually.

In the Banshee -1E's case, we have a short range damage value of 2.425, and a total, maximum heat generated of 25 with 16 heat sinks.  Therefore, the formula ends up looking like this: (2.425 * 16)/(25-4) → (38.8/21) → 1.8 damage.  We also have a medium range damage value of 2.5, modified in the exact same way with the same numbers (Even though the Small Laser does no medium range damage, it still contributes heat), which gives us 1.9.  Long range heat-modified damage ignores heat from weapons that do no long range damage, so the formula changes to (1.5 * 16)/(18 – 4) → (24/14) → 1.7 damage. [Author's note: it's entirely possible that I am dead wrong in this math, in which case disregard this paragraph.  In the event that the Banshee -1E's unit card is changed to take this into account, I will go back and edit the entry on the -1E.  Incidentally, a change like this would alter the -1E's PV down by 2 points.]

If the heat-modified damage values are different enough that it would give you a lower damage, then your 'Mech automatically gains OV equal to the points lost, up to a maximum of 4.  You can't have an OV of higher than 4.

Specials are much more varied and numerous.  The -1E, however, has none of them, so this section will remain pretty sparse.  The end result is that we now have a 'Mech that has MV 6”, armor and structure values of 8 points each, and a damage profile of 2/2/2 OV1 with no Specials.  Boom.  Done.

Well, here we are near the bottom of the third page of a word document, and I just finished the first variant.  Aw yeah.  I'll try to make the next variants a little bit more concise.



Slightly differently from normal (though not visibly yet) we'll also be going through these ones chronologically, rather than alphabetically.  This one debuts 30 years later in 2475, and brings the tech up to modern standards.  Well, beyond primitive standards.  Though the Banshee -3E is available to just about everybody, being one of the Terran Hegemony's earlier Assaults, it's predominantly found within Lyran Commonwealth ranks.

The Banshee -3E is the one everyone is most familiar with.  This is the classic Succession Wars variant, the one that's too damn fast for its own good.  The upgrade from primitive tech to standard tech is pretty evident here, since the difference between the 345-rated primitive engine of the -1E and the 380-rated standard fusion of the -3E is a whopping 12.5 tons.  The performance difference between the two is that the -3E manages a top speed of 86 kph, significantly better than the plodding waddle of the -1E and most other Assault 'Mechs of the time.  That speed is rather dubiously applied, however, on a 'Mech that (while matching the armor point for point) is armed even more poorly than before.  Fifteen tons of standard plate is enough for the same total armor value, spread out identically, and saving 7.5 tons in the process.  Upgrading to a standard cockpit nets another two tons.  We are now “only” three tons lacking compared to the improved engine.

Those three tons come 100% out of the weapons.  Both Medium Lasers are gone, as is the second ton of AC/5 ammo.  The latter part is arguably good, but losing both Medium Lasers hurts the close range offensive punch of the unit considerably, and leaves it lacking any effective weapons that are actually scary inside the minimum ranges of its guns.  Well, excluding the giant fists, at least.  There is that.  And now, you're actually fast enough to use them on some things!  A 4/6 movement means you can reasonably close with and catch up to most Heavies of the day, and a few of the slower Mediums.  Nothing likes 10 point punches or 19 point kicks.  Sixteen heat sinks stay exactly where they were, meaning you're hideously oversinked, with a running alpha cooling two points.

All in all, the armor is heavy enough to take a good pounding while closing to good range, but now the speed is there to actually get into range.  It doesn't have the threat I'd normally expect out of something this size, not in the slightest, but that can be used to your advantage.  It can either be a big huge in your face “SHOOT ME” brick that draws fire from your smaller or more important units, or it can ghost under the radar and pop up when someone least wants two punches in the face (which is always).  Decent flexibility in usage for something that really lacks flexibility in armament.

In Alpha Strike, this one I like arguably more than the -1E, thanks to the increased speed and the lowered PV of 38.  The speed goes up to 8”, but the TMM stays the same.  You get more mobility while still being just as hard/easy to hit.  Weapon damage is reduced somewhat, to 2/2/2 with no OV.  Everything else stays pretty similar.  The damage is pretty lack luster on both something that expensive and that big, but that's partially made up for by the sheer durability of it.

Bonus points for keeping it cheap and keeping the Sniper role.  This thing, in this author's humble opinion, is even more useful for Assault Lances that are typically very slow.  Considering that one of the major weaknesses of any assault formation is their inability to outmaneuver much of anything, that's a fine thing in my book.  This Assault won't win any slugging matches with Atlases (especially not at a 14 PV deficit), but it'll sure as hell get where you want it faster.

That means the conversions are pretty similar too, so this will be quick.  The extra ground MP brings it up to 8”, while the armor and structure stay the same.  Well, the primitive armor is replaced by standard, and the engine likewise, but the actual armor value doesn't change, and there's no functional difference between primitive engines and standard engines in the conversion process.

Weapons are even easier than before.  The standard PPC has the same damage as the Prototype, and the AC/5 and Small Laser stay here.  Basically, you lose exactly one point of damage at short and medium, while long stays the same.  The number of heatsinks stays the same, but with the lessened heat burden, there's really no change whatsoever in the heat-adjusted damage.  0.75 + 0.375 + 0.3 at short range gives you 1.425 at short, and then it's 1.5 at medium and long.  All damage fractions round up after you hit 1, regardless of how little they beat it by, so the damage ends up being 2/2/2.



Over a hundred years later in 2579 comes the third model of Banshee, the BNC-3M.  This time, everything on the base chassis stays the same, including structure, engine, heat sinks, and armor down to the individual point.  The only changes come to the weapons.  The -3M trades the AC/5 in the left torso for a second PPC, and then adds a pair of Medium Lasers seated under each PPC, one per side torso, while the Small Laser keeps mostly silent vigil in the Head.  This must have happened before the Free Worlds League managed to lose all of its PPCs, or divert them to Awesomes, because that's the only faction that fields these versions in any quantity large enough to merit mention on the MUL.

The number of heat sinks has not been adjusted, meaning this Banshee runs hot.  Four points of heat over the cooling capability even at a standstill, firing only primary weapons hot.  A running alpha ends at +14.  Some folks like to ride the heat scale, but this one is way too hot for my blood.  The punch is undeniable, but the sacrifices required to get it are enormous.  That said, firing 2-1-2-1 will at least keep the heat scale mostly neutral, and allow for some good, hard-hitting salvos while charging into the real objective of melee range.  And really, that's what Banshees do.  They shoot a little bit, and then wade into slugging range.  This one does that, but it's a bit more high profile than I'd like to see doing it.  Two PPCs is enough to make people sit up and notice, and Banshees don't like that.

In Alpha Strike the -3M is nearly identical to the -3E, with the only meaningful difference being one point of OV.  ENE also makes an appearance in the Special box, as befits a 'Mech with no explosive components.  Spoiler alert: That's the only qualifier for having ENE.  Have no explosive components on the 'Mech.  Not always possible, but since it reduces the chance to have your unit catastrophically cease existing on a critical hit by fully half, it's worth it if you have no strong attachment to a piece of equipment that disqualifies you from it.

The conversion process likewise stays pretty similar, though we'll get to see how OV works in this case.  Move, armor, and structure all stay the same, but the weapons need a new set of calculations.

The short range damage increases to 0.75 + 0.75 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.3 = 2.8, which should be good enough for three points.  The head has something to say about that, however.  (2.8 * 16)/(29 – 4) = (44.8)/(25) = 1.8.  This rounds up to 2, rather than 3, so we actually lose a full point of damage thanks to that heat.  We'll check it again at medium range, and if the point is still lost there, we'll get to claim a point of OV.

Medium range damage ends up being 1 + 1 + 0.5 + 0.5 = 3, so we're going well on that front.  (3 * 16)/(29 – 4) = (48)/25) = 1.9.  Success, we did lose a point in both medium and short range, so the Banshee -3M gets to claim a point of OV on the damage block.

OV1 is worth one point, and with the same damage output otherwise at all ranges, with the same movement and armor, the PV for the -3M is exactly one point higher, at 39.  Extra potential damage output at an opportune time (or immediately before/after exploding violently) can definitely shift the battle, so I like this minor cost for minor gain.  Despite the shift to what is arguably a more effective set of long range weapons, the -3M becomes a Brawler, rather than a Sniper.



Next up, the -3Q.  This one is also a Free Worlds League modification from the early 2900s, and it goes the route of the Hunchback.  All of the weapons save the Small Laser have been ripped out to make room for a massive AC/20 in the right torso, fed by six tons of ammo in the left.  Yes, six tons of ammunition in the left torso.  That's the only thing in the left torso at all.  Immediate red flag.  It does not matter how effectively that AC/20 is used on the field, it's just waiting, begging to go up in a massive explosion.  The armor is the same it always has been, which is good but not great, but even if this thing had 30 tons of hardened armor instead I wouldn't trust six tons of ammo alone in a location.  Four heat sinks are discarded to make room for the massive cannon.

Which is a real shame, because the prospect of a 20 point wallop with the AC followed up a moment later by a 19 point kick, or two 10 point punches is delicious.  However, since the AC and the Small Laser are the only weapons on the 'Mech, the range is hideously lacking.  A maximum of 270 meters engagement distance is something a Hunchback can probably get away with, simply because it's 'only' 50 tons.  A Banshee will get picked to pieces before getting into range, because there's a certain... gravitas of need that an Assault 'Mech bearing down on you has that a Hunchback just doesn't.

Alpha Strike once more comes to the rescue, utterly striking from the record the greatest flaw of this particular variant.  Ammo explosions have a fixed probability in Alpha Strike, rather than the steadily increasing chance of a detonation with more ammo in standard play, and the damn near certainty of having this much in one unprotected location is a huge bump in survivability. 

The damage block becomes significantly shorter ranged, hitting 3/2/0 with no OV.  One something as slow as just about any Assault 'Mech I'm not a fan of no long range damage, but medium range is comparatively a lot longer than in standard play, and this one can still contribute at the most common engagement ranges.  Armor remains the same, as do structure and move, so the durability is still there, as well.

Also showing up is the AC special ability, in the form of AC2/2/-.  Two points of autocannon damage at medium range is some good stuff, and you can load specialty munitions to your heart's content with this one.  That's true of the standard -3Q in general, however.  Six tons of Precision, after a moment of thinking on it, actually sounds pretty nice!  But not nice enough to make me want to use it.

The conversion for this one is easy.  The maximum heat you can generate even on a running alpha is two points under neutral, so there's no chance of heat-modified damage whatsoever.  Conversion is simple, too, with one weapon that deals 2 damage and one that deals 0.3, but only at short range.  At short, 2.3 rounds up to 3, and 2 is a flat 2 at medium.  Boom, easy.

The net change in damage, and the loss of OV from the previous models make the -3Q relatively inexpensive, at 37 points.  The armor is still good, the movement is the same.  You lose the long range capability, and become vulnerable to being dragged around the map by an annoying insect that can plink away beyond engagement range, but having a good punch in medium range should be good enough to get your points back over the course of the game.  The role also changes again, this time to Juggernaut.  The Juggernaut type is useful in Command Lances, and is good in Assault Lances for freeing up a 'Mech that may otherwise be required to be a Sniper to get the lance bonus.



The next variant, the -3S, brings us into the 31st century with a bang.  Fielded mostly by the Federated Commonwealth states and the Free Rasalhague Republic, the -3S decides to forego the primary purpose of every Banshee up to now.  It drops the speed back down to the 54 kph maximum of the old primitive version nearly 600 years earlier, but this time using standard components.  Armor stays the same, at the 15 tons and 240 points that every Banshee has had up to now, so that tonnage goes directly into guns, guns, guns.

In this case, 'guns, guns, guns' means two PPCs, one in the left arm and one in the right torso, an AC/10 with two tons of ammunition in the left torso, and an SRM-6 with one ton of ammo supported by no fewer than four Medium Lasers nestled under the PPC in the right torso.  Two token Small Lasers are placed one in the center torso, and one in the head. 

Dayum.

That is by far one of the most heavily gunned 'Mechs in the game in 3025.  I daresay it outguns the classic AS7-D Atlas by virtue of having some range to play with.  A total of 21 heatsinks is woefully inadequate at handling the heat load of so many guns, but with the varying ranges the -3S is fully capable of bracketing with the best of them.

Both PPCs and the AC/10 at a run will build up exactly +4 heat, just shy of heat penalties.  Dropping a PPC every other turn keeps things neutral indefinitely.  At close range, the AC/10, SRM-6, and four Medium Lasers are perfectly sinked, with a running alpha generating zero waste heat.

It's one of the finest bracket firing 'Mechs in the game, let alone 3025.  Perfection.

In Alpha Strike, we finally get a glimpse at how bracket firing 'Mechs suffer.  The method of calculating OV tends to punish bracket firing 'mechs and reward alpha strikers.  The general PV of a bracket firing 'Mech will be lower, but it cannot use its full damage without incurring heat penalties.  Let's take a look, since everything else stays the same.

Two PPCs are 0.75 damage each at short range.  The AC/10 is 1.  Medium Lasers between them are 2 full points.  The SRM-6 goes by average number of missiles hit, in this case 0.8 points.  The Small Lasers are 0.3 each, for an additional total of 0.6.  Add it all together, 2*0.75 + 1 + 4*0.5 + 0.8 + 2*0.3 = 5.9.  That's a pretty big chunk of change.  But how does the heat stack up?  The -3S can generate up to 43 heat at peak blazing fury, compared to just 21 heat dissipation.  In our formula from earlier: (5.9 * 21)/(42 – 4) = (123.9)/(38) = 3.3, rounded up to 4.  So we lost two full points of damage thanks to that heat.  Jeez.

Medium range is pretty similar.  We lose the Small Lasers, but the PPCs get 0.25 damage extra each, for a total net change of -0.1, down to 5.8.  Put that back in the formula: (5.8 * 21)/(42 – 4) = (121.8)/(38) = 3.2, rounded up again to 4.  Two more full points, which is good enough to give us an OV2.  It hurts not being able to deal six damage every turn, though, for sure.  OV is nice in a pinch, and good to have when you can't get damage otherwise, but it's definitely not as good as flat damage all the time.

The actual damage block does end up at a respectable 4/4/2 OV2, with the armor to back it up.  The loss of speed hurts, but the TMM is the same.  Having long range damage really saves this one, because otherwise I'd probably shame it for not being able to bring that impressive damage to bear on many targets with medium range only.

With all that offense, the -3S was bound to be more expensive.  It delivers, at a whole 45 PV.  The culprits for this are obvious, especially with the lack of Specials.  Damage is damage is damage, and it's worth quite a bit.  The role remains a Juggernaut, which I rather like for the reasons stated above.  This one has the guns to really carry the lance, too, especially in pre-Clan games.  Even post-invasion it can still dish out some hurt.
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Scotty

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #1 on: 19 July 2015, 22:46:55 »


And now, to the first of no less than four unique variants of the Banshee.  One of those unique variants is from the Battle Lance pack, and will therefore not be covered here.  This one will, though!

Three years after the production of the -3S, Mr. Reinesblatt fielded this customized model.  Much of the armament remains similar to the -3S.  Both PPCs have been removed in exchange for one Hatchet in the left arm and one Large Laser in the right.  The right torso SRM-6 has also been converted into an LRM-10.  Heat dissipation remains the same, as does the armor package of all Banshees and the speed of the -3S.

All in all, much more geared toward melee combat than any Banshee so far – odd, because it's one of the slower ones.  This makes it difficult to get into melee range in the first place, but when you do things start to hurt, and hurt badly.  Heat is still a problem on an alpha strike, and the optimum brackets for firing have gotten a bit... muddled.  For extra confusion, this is also the first Banshee to mount something with a range longer than 18 hexes.  Ever!  So not only does it double down on melee, it does so while simultaneously reaching farther (albeit more anemically) than any Banshee before.  Go figure.

Alpha Strike is kind to this one.  The LRM-10 lets it keep a point of long range damage and gain IF1 for use while keeping to cover in order to get to melee range, while the Hatchet adds MEL for increased damage in melee.  Five points is nothing to sneeze at.  A final damage block of 4/4/1 OV1 is still respectable, lacking the burst damage of the -3S, but keeping a moderate amount of long range damage.  That's invaluable, especially for a scary melee monster like this.  I'm going to forego doing the OV calculation this time, because five examples should be good for you guys. :P

Alpha Strike PV is still 45, on account of the IF1 and MEL bumping it up just as much as a point of OV and long range damage brought it down.  Role remains Juggernaut, good for use in Assault Lances.  With this one, I definitely recommend taking Demoralizer as the lance ability.  Really, anything that uses melee wants to do that, in order to make shots against you harder while not in base to base contact, and to slow down your target below the speed they need to reasonably outrun you.



Let me save you some time when you come around to considering the -3MC.  It's bad.  The armor and speed are back up to the typical -3E standards, but that doesn't save the 'Mech.  Typically, the AC/5 is a poor weapon.  On this 'Mech, the AC/10 is a poor weapon.  In order to free up the tonnage for the cannon and two tons of ammo, the Medium Lasers are gone, and so are five heat sinks.  The result is a 'Mech that overheats while firing its primary weapons, gives up significant amounts of offense at short ranges, doesn't match ranges well at all, and puts out less damage than just about any Assault 'Mech you could name, leaving aside the notorious Charger -1A1.  This kind of firepower is matched and exceeded by 'Mechs half this size.  Warhammers and Marauders point and laugh.  Normally that's not a huge knock, but for something 20-25 tons larger, it's a painful sight.  Barely worth mentioning is the single Small Laser that's still chilling in the head.

As for Alpha Strike?  Well, it's cheap.  Read the preceding paragraph again to remind yourself why it's so cheap.  Armor and move are, once again, back up to -3E standards, which is probably this thing's only saving grace.  Damage is a mediocre 2/2/1.  At least it has long range damage!  There is no OV to even periodically bring the damage up to average levels.  The only thing that recommends this is the AC1/1/- Special, which is useful for shooting at airborne targets, or targets with high move.  That's about it.

Well, that's not strictly speaking correct.  The -3MC actually gives me an excuse to break out the overheat calculations and show you how not to build a 'Mech in AS.  Damage rounds up to the nearest whole number, which makes things like solitary Small Lasers good for eking out that little extra bit of short range damage for a low tonnage investment.  This particular Banshee could have done that, and instead screws it all up with heat.

Take a look at the short range damage.  From the AC/10 we get 1, from the PPC we get 0.75 due to minimum range, and from the Small Laser we get 0.3, for a total of 2.05.  Then the overheat calculations come in.  (2.05 * 11)/(16 – 4) → (22.55)/(12) → I'm sure you can see where this is going.  The final, adjusted value is 1.9 after rounding to the nearest tenth, not good enough to round up to 3 points.  The heat has robbed us of a point of short range damage.

But what about medium?  This thing lost a point at short range, why can't it at medium to claim OV1?  Well, it's because of that Small Laser.  It doesn't enter calculations for medium range, which means that it can't influence the damage of the combined PPC and AC/10 above their cumulative exactly 2 points if it tried.  Ever.  The heat modifies that slightly, too, to a similar 1.9.  That rounds back up to 2 points, and since at medium range the 'Mech lost exactly nothing, it doesn't qualify for OV1.  The long range damage of exactly the PPC and nothing else is not influenced by heat.

And that, kids, is how to avoid building a 'Mech for your own games.  As alluded to earlier, the only saving grace of the -3MC in Alpha Strike is that it's cheap as hell at only 37 PV.  It's also a Brawler, which means it no longer fits easily into an Assault Lance, but it can do well enough in a Battle Lance.  If you do put it in a Battle Lance, you'll probably want to use the Battle Lance's Lucky SPA on melee attacks.  Two points at short and medium isn't generally worth spending the rolls on unless you need two points to kill something right damn now.

The only significant numbers of this particular machine are found in the Magistracy of Canopus, starting in 3037.  So I guess, if you really need a bad Assault 'Mech to fill out a unit playing Periphery, this is the 'Mech for you.  I can definitely see the CAF deciding that Assault 'Mech > no Assault 'Mech and putting it into heavy production.



And with that, we have now entered a new era, ladies and gentlemen.  The next Banshee on the lsit, the BNC-5S, is a product of the Clan Invasion.  Notably just a bit too late for Tukayyid and the main thrust of the Clan Invasion, this variant stepped off the lines for the first time in 3053.

I would also like to say that, after the walking blunder that is the -3MC, the -5S is pretty good, guys.  It starts on the solid base that the Banshee has been built on for over 600 years by this point, with a 64 kph top speed, and a solid 15 points of armor.  The armor distribution has still not changed even once, now on variant #8.  That's all window dressing to the main event, however: the guns.

In order to save mass at the expense of bulk, an XL engine was fitted into the -5S's frame.  This freed up over 20 tons to use to improve the armament.  And oh, how it is improved.  The two PPCs from the -3S make an appearance, shifted around a bit to both fit in the right torso.  Both are also upgraded to ER PPCs.  Against the Clans, this is a significant benefit in range, and also has the benefit of making the -5S right out of the gate the single most dangerous Banshee yet, by dint of being able to put 20 points of damage downrange to 690 meters.  Even better, that's not even the end of the big guns!  The AC/5 has been upgraded into a fearsome Gauss Rifle, reaching just shy of the ER PPCs but bringing in an impressive punch.  The only negative for this set up is the single, solitary ton of gauss ammo.  You'll run out of ammo long before you run out of armor.  Fourteen double heat sinks (another awesome upgrade) struggle to deal with the heat burden of just the main weapons. Firing the three big guns all at once at a run will leave the -5S a little toasty in the cockpit, but it will still function at full effectiveness the next turn, which is the important part.  It's easily sustainable to run at 3-3-2 firing pattern, dropping one ER PPC every third round and remain heat neutral.  Or, for the slightly more daring, or the slightly better shots among us, 3-3-3-2 will also stay heat neutral while keeping firepower up longer.  At that point, you do start to run into some targeting issues, but the increased damage output could be the deciding factor, depending on the range and speed of your target.

The close range punch of this Banshee got heftier, too.  Two Medium Lasers in the left arm coupled with an SRM-6 and a ton of ammo in the right get good results, and arguably better than most Banshees before now regardless of other weapons especially at short range.  The only downside is that they're arm mounted, which means in the event of a melee range brawl, you're either restricted to kicking, which can sometimes be risky, or you're unable to engage with all of your short range armament.  An additional two Medium Lasers are mounted in the side torsos, one each, but face rearward.  While good against backstabbing threats, I think I speak for most everyone when I say that forward mounted weapons are largely superior, and I would pick them every time.  The head mounted Small Laser remains, and is actually joined by a second nestled in the Center Torso.  I'm again reminded I'd rather have another Medium instead of two Smalls.  Heat is fairly easily managed at short range, however, trading out one ER PPC for everything else.  Dropping one ER PPC and firing everything else in the front arc generates only movement heat.  Pretty slick brackets, but firing an alpha strike will leave the pilot wondering who turned on the sun in the cockpit.

To my delight, the -5S stacks up well in Alpha Strike, too.  This is the first time out of all our previous Banshees where the armor or structure changed.  In this case, it's the structure.  XL Engines in Inner Sphere terms basically half the amount of structure a unit receives (rounded up, with exactly one exception in the 80 ton column), so this Banshee comes in with 4 points of structure.  This significantly reduces the total punishment that the 'Mech can take, but that does also affect how expensive the 'Mech is.  In this particular Banshee's case, those four points of structure save around 4.5 PV, before rounding and final computation.  I'm a big fan of durability, but a total of 12 points is still pretty acceptable, and the number of things that can take it out in one hit are very, very few and far between.

So where does all that raw gun go in Alpha Strike?  It goes into a 4/4/4 OV1 damage block.  That's pretty solid right there.  Good at all ranges, consistent damage, and a little bit of extra kick at short and medium range when you need it.  It can't do 7 or 8 like we saw the Mad Cat Mk IV get up to, but the -5S gets top marks from me for damage, and good marks for combining armor, speed, and firepower all in one package.  As an extra bonus, it has REAR1/1/-.  Rear is one of the only ways to make a second attack in Alpha Strike, so it can be incredibly useful even though it does reduce your primary attack's damage correspondingly.

The rear mounted weapons make the overheat calculations interesting.  In Alpha Strike, rear mounted weapons are not counted for overheat unless rear firing weapons do more damage than forward firing weapons.  I can't honestly think of any 'Mech where that happens, so it won't affect much here.  Total damage of all forward facing weapons is pretty hefty.  A point for each ER PPC at all ranges, half a point for each Medium Laser forward in short and medium, 0.8 points for the SRM-8 in short and medium, 0.6 total for the two Smalls in short only, and the Gauss Rifle puts up 1.245 in short and then 1.5 each in medium and long range.  Or rather, that's what it would do if it had 10 shots of ammo.  Instead, that value gets reduced by a quarter at all ranges.  Adjusted, the damage is 0.93375/1.125/1.125

That gives us an unmodified damage total of 5.33375/4.925/3.125.  Damn, that's pretty sweet.  As of right this moment, that rounds up to a total of 6/5/4 before we consider heat woes.  Anyway, on to the calculations.

At short range, with everything except the rear mounted medium lasers, this Banshee can put out a blistering 45 heat at maximum movement heat.  Plugging that into our cool little formula, we get (5.33375 * 28)/(45 – 4) → (159.345)/(41) → 3.6, which will round up to a total short range damage of 4 when we get there.  That's a difference of two full points of damage.  Now time to see if the difference persists in medium range.

Back to the formula (4.925 * 28)/(45 – 4) → (137.9)/(41) → 3.4, which will likewise round up to 4.  That is a difference of only one point of damage.  That restricts the -5S to OV1, rather than 2.  This is likewise an example of how not to build a 'Mech for an entirely different reason.  Have ammo for your guns, kids.

At 42 PV, this one is more expensive than the base -3E, but the capability it offers is vastly improved offensively, for a not-insignificant but certainly not crippling hit in vulnerability.  With its speed, the -5S plays more like an oversize Heavy than a traditional Assault.  I like it.  The -5S is a Sniper, which means it's a great addition to a Fire Lance, and the high damage at all ranges with good armor contributes to Assault Lances well, too.  This one definitely wants to take fewer hits than a -3E, but it can still take a couple, so don't be shy.  The extra damage also means you can probably try to outduel someone in raw damage, and promotes being more aggressive with your shots.

The Banshee -5S is available to the Federated Commonwealth, member states thereof, and allies.



Custom variant number two.  I had no idea who this one was named for until I saw that the source for it was actually the TRO3050 Upgrade record sheets.  Apparently a mercenary in Bronson's Horde, Trent “Bullfrog” Sawyer opted to remove one of his Banshee -5S's ER PPCs and one heat sink in exchange for a full complement of jump jets.  This allows the -5S (Sawyer) to really open up at shorter ranges without worrying too much about overheating too badly, even despite the lost heat sink.  Overall offensive power is reduced, but the mobility is hugely improved.

Nothing else about the 'Mech changes, making this particular custom something that could easily have marched off the line at a glance if we didn't know anything about where it came from.  There's only one -5S (Sawyer), and the Horde was destroyed as a fighting unit on New Avalon during the Jihad fighting on the side of the Blakists, so the likelihood of this particular model still existing is not high.

In Alpha Strike, the -5S (Sawyer) is pretty similar in Alpha Strike, too.  The loss of an ER PPC reduces the long range damage by one point, but the rest of the damage component remains the same minus overheat.  That is to say, you can still do 4 damage at short and medium, but the lack of ER PPC pumping up the temperature means that there's no overheat along with it; you just get 4/4/3.  That's still pretty good!  And the extra mobility granted by the jump jets arguably matters more here than it does in standard play.  You don't lose distance when you jump, and being able to clear terrain like that makes the -5S (Sawyer) pretty terrifying in a built up area, especially since it can use that mobility to bully smaller but individually more powerful units.  Getting into base to base contact means that the -5S (Sawyer) and original -5S don't lose any damage they could be doing, but if an enemy unit does less damage in melee, the Banshee comes out on top.

Despite the drastic mobility change, this one retains the Sniper role, and only goes up by 1 PV to a total of 43.  I'd take that if I ever got the opportunity to use unique units like that in my games.  As a Sniper, this one works well in an Assault Lance that's trying to stay mobile, like a Fast Assault Lance.  At that PV, you can probably afford this plus a skill increase in the place of a 'true' line Assault.  As a unique unit, no major power uses any great number of the -5S Sawyer.  It debuts in 3057, and may be presumed destroyed by 3070.



Somewhat amusingly, our next variant is also unique.  The Banshee BNC-5S (Vandergriff) is the personal ride of a Solaris VII gladiator.  It, too, goes the way of improved mobility with jump jets, but it takes a different path to get there.

One of the ER PPCs moves to the left arm, while the other stays in the right torso.  The rear mounted Medium Lasers are ripped out, and the SRM-6 is downgraded to an SRM-4, while keeping the same amount of ammo.  Both Small Lasers are also removed, making at least one interesting first for this particular Banshee.  That accounts for four tons, and the remaining four tons are gained by dropping the Gauss Rifle down to an LB-10X.  Only one ton of ammo furnishes the weapon, defaulting to slugs.  You keep the long range punch of the ER PPCs, but lose the long range concentrated punch of the Gauss.  I'm genuinely not sure which I prefer, but it's definitely worth noting that loading a ton of cluster ammo makes this one an excellent generalist while the ammo holds out.

And I guess I should at least mention that the armor hasn't changed again, and that the engine is still the XL of the base -5S.  Surprise.

The changes in Alpha Strike make the -5S (Vandergriff) much more average than the last couple.  Armor and structure are what you may expect, and the jumping move is the same as the -5S (Sawyer).  Damage is significantly evened out, a flat 3/3/3 all the way down, and OV2.  Not losing that ER PPC while going to jump movement sure affected that significantly!  I'm generally a bigger fan of 4/4/4 OV1 than 3/3/3 OV2, but you do get the points cost back for it.  The difference in points is 17 PV for the 4/4/4 OV1, and 13.5 PV for 3/3/3 OV2.  Significant enough to make a difference in the final PV, I wager.  Also making a special appearance courtesy of the LB-10X is FLK1/1/1, making the -5S (Vandergriff) the first Banshee capable of effectively responding to airborne targets, or at the very least much moreso than previous variants.

At 41 PV, this version of the -5S is the cheapest so far, but not by too terribly much.  The jumping movement accounts for some of that, as does rounding in the final calculations.  If you ever do find an excuse to use this one, the role is that of a Skirmisher.  This particular 'Mech was destroyed on Solaris VII during riots that broke out on the eve of the FedCom Civil War.  The pilot did not survive.



Finally, out of the unique variants!  The -6S debuts in 3062 to the Lyran Alliance and the Lyran Alliance only.  It's also probably one of the most Steiner things to ever exist.  It's also the largest major changeup to the Banshee's base characteristics yet.

First up, the engine changes again.  It's moved to a Light Engine, and kept the rating and speed.  This makes the -6S inherently less vulnerable than the previous -5S, and I'm 100% okay with that.  Losing the tonnage for guns is a shame, but somethings are worth it.  Besides, the -6S keeps guns in an impressive way.  More on that in a little bit.  Double heat sinks are also kept, and all ten of them fit in the engine with no problems whatsoever.

The engine has changed, and so has the structure.  The -6S is the first Banshee to mount Endo-Steel, freeing up an additional four and a half tons, somewhat mitigating the switch from XLE to LFE.  You pay more in crits, but gain in durability.

Something I'm less enamored with, this is the very first Banshee to mess with the trademarked armor alignment.  Armor is kept the same type, but reduced by half a ton.  Most of that came out of the rear armor.  What was previously a pretty solid rear plate along all torsos has been reduced so far that an AC/10 will nearly breach the center, and will breach the sides with some boom left over.  Not having that threshold against what are arguably the most common big guns of just about any era isn't great for something that's designed to go in and mix it up.  Two points come off the center torso, too.  Then the legs get a pair of points each.  They were arguably the weak link on the Banshee's original armor segment, but I'm concerned that the loss is greater than the reward on that redistribution.  Which is to be expected when armor is reduced.

So, what's the point of all these changes?  Three words: Heavy Gauss Rifle.  Occupying almost the entire (CASE'd) left torso and what space remains in the center is the behemoth of a gun.  Five tons of ammo feed the beast, split with four tons into the legs and one in the right torso.  The right torso houses an LB-10X with two tons of ammo, also CASE'd.  The biggest knock against equipment placement on this 'Mech is that the HGR spills into the center torso but those two crits are unprotected.  It's entirely possible to go up in a puff of smoke if the rifle takes a crit, though to be fair CASE wouldn't stop that.  The token Small Laser returns in the head.  Mmmm, that sounds pretty good to me.  Total maximum heat generation on the whole 'Mech is a whopping 7 points.  You could probably pilot this thing in sweats and barely even notice.

In Alpha Strike, however, the Heavy Gauss isn't quite as sterling.  A short range damage of a mere 1.65, rather than the 2.5 you might expect, really weighs it down.  That minimum range hurts.  The combination of that and the LB-10X (and token Small Laser) brings up the damage totals to 2.58/2.63/1.63, for a final total of 3/3/2.  Not great, and certainly not what you'd expect to see out of a Heavy Gauss.  The threat range of the big guns in Alpha Strike just doesn't translate nearly that well.  Disappointing.  The heat level on this thing might as well be set at 'refrigerate', so heat modification won't be necessary in the slightest.

Now the good news: LFE means that we get a point of structure back, up to five, and the armor drop didn't actually change the number of armor points.  Rounding for the win.  With a total of 13 points, split 8/5, the -6S is once again capable of sustaining four hits from the ASMOTW's Thud test and keep trucking, which is definitely good for its utility.  FLK1/1/1 also appears in the Specials again.  It's also the first to have CASE, which is something, at least.

At 37 PV, the lack of general offensive ability in the Alpha Strike stats makes the -6S one of the cheaper Banshees available.  It doesn't come with a whole lot of punch, and it's titled as a Brawler so it won't really help you out in many Assault Lances.  This one is a battler, through and through.  Stick it in a Battle Lance to take advantage of the good durability, average damage, ability to reroll when it really matters, and the relatively inexpensive PV cost to field something that big that's still fast enough to stay in the fight.



Fast forward one year to 3063.  Looking for an upgrade to the -5S, the Lyran Alliance (as it was calling itself at this point) took what had worked from the -6S, the LFE and the Endo-Steel, and built on a good thing.

That starts with the armor.  An extra ton is added from the -6S, cumulatively a half ton more than most other Banshee's.  The way this armor was arrayed is... interesting.  There's a net loss in torso armor from the originals, while the arms and legs get a few extra points.  Now, the arms and side front torsos are evenly matched at 27 points each, enough fewer points that three PPCs or AC/10s, or perhaps more importantly a pair of Gauss Rifles will go right through it.  The legs are up to 32 points, significantly improving compared to the original, six points each.  It's probably a personal taste thing whether you want leg armor or torso armor.  With an LFE it's perhaps not quite as vital to have that torso armor as high as possible, but it doesn't sit well with me.  The center torso also loses a couple points front, to where the fourth PPC or AC/10 will outright breach, rather than leave the internals untouched but with no armor left.  The head armor stays the same at the ubiquitous 9 points.  Rear armor also takes a hit compared to the originals, able to stop a Large Laser exactly in the sides, and the same plus a Medium Laser in the center.  Overall, while the protection has gone up by eight points I'm not as impressed with the distribution.  Losing legs really sucks, but side torsos are more likely to be struck in the first place, and carry most of the 'Mech's firepower.

And now, to the guns.  An ER PPC sits under the left arm, supported at long range by a Gauss Rifle in the left torso.  This time the gun has a proper amount of ammunition to feed it, two tons in the center torso.  If there was ever a time to put ammo in a center torso location, gauss ammo is it.  The torso with the Gauss Rifle is protected by CASE.  An SRM-6 occupies the opposite side torso, with a single ton of ammo, likewise protected by the same CASE that protects the rifle.  That leaves two engine crits and eight explosive crits in that side torso.  No thanks, but with CASE it's better than nothing at all.  Finally, four ER Medium Lasers back up the SRM at short range, arrayed one in each side torso and two in the right arm.  All in all, a pretty hefty punch.  The same base 14 DHSs present in the -5S manage the heat well in brackets.  Long range is actually fairly cool-running, contributing an ER PPC and a Gauss.  Short range is similarly well behaved.  Four ER Mediums and an SRM-6 provide good short to mid range punch, and do so while still remaining heat neutral.  Add the Gauss as numbers permit, and in a pinch the ER PPC can add some firepower too, but you'll run pretty damn hot to do so.

How fare thee in Alpha Strike, champion?  Thee fares pretty well.  The 15.5 tons of armor aren't enough to bump the -7S up another point, so we're still at 8.  Light Fusion means 5 points of structure.  That's the same 13 points as the -6S, so same concerns (or lackthereof) about durability.

The damage is pretty sweet.  Unlike the -5S from earlier, this -7S does manage to claw its way up to 4/4/3 damage and keep OV2.  I think I might have mentioned it three or four times this article already, but while sustained damage is better, that OV potential is good for keeping PV down while keeping offensive punch.  The particular advantage, or at least my favorite way to use it, is on the very turn that the unit is destroyed.  In Alpha Strike, combat is conducted one player at a time.  That is, the player that lost initiative fires everything, and then the player that won initiative fires.  This allows the player that won initiative to react to destroyed units.  If a unit that just blew up but has yet to return fire has an OV value?  Punch it.  Hit the “All the Missiles” button, because there's no reason to leave the heat scale anything short of a melting ruin.  In PV terms, OV1 is one point, OV2 is 1.5 points, OV3 is 2 points, and OV4 is 2.5 points.  So, effectively, you're spending two points in order to take advantage of really good shots that may present themselves, and also to get two extra points of damage from a dead unit.  This contrasts directly with the PV cost of the damage you lost from heat.  OV2 corresponds to a whopping 6 PV you didn't spend on flat damage, so you're effectively getting a 4.5 PV discount on that damage as long as you use it a couple times.  There are definitely worse trade-offs.

I don't think I'll actually go through the heat calculations for this one, mostly because as of this paragraph, this article just hit 10,000 words.  Yeah.  I hope at least a couple of you read this far.  Not that I would blame you if you didn't.  Proof-reading this thing is going to be a gigantic pain, and I may forego it entirely just to get this out the door.

PV for this one reflects its abilities.  Good damage, potential for catastrophic damage, good durability, good speed for its size, and getting in close with one really sucks for anyone who does.  In light of that, 43 PV is a pretty good deal.  This one is a Brawler, fitting in well with Battle Lances.  This one also serves as a great bodyguard in a Command Lance, with the good OV capable of taking out headhunters or at least crippling them before they get to the CO.
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Scotty

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #2 on: 19 July 2015, 22:47:15 »


Long ago, the five Great Houses lived in harmony.  Then everything changed when the Word of Blake attacked.  The Banshee -8S is... different. But good different.  Very good.  This particular version came about in 3070 as a result of the Word of Blake occupation of Hesperus II, and as such is fielded primarily by the Word.  Lyran units got their hands on enough to field them in notable numbers, and the Lyran state retained them after the war.

Lots of stuff changes about the -8S.  The engine is back to an XL, meaning the fragility of internal structure is back.  That frees up a bunch of tonnage, but the durability suffers.  Due to critical space constraints, a standard structure is used.  An XL Gyro also makes an appearance, freeing up yet more tonnage and making the center torso even more vulnerable once the armor has been stripped.

Speaking of armor, the -8S does it right.  Like, really right.  Eighteen tons of standard plate, 98% of the maximum coverage on the 'Mech.  Two hundred eighty-eight points of armor.  Every location gets a universal armor increase with the sole exception of the rear center torso, which finds itself barely inferior to classic Banshees.  Every forward location can take at least 30 points of damage save the head. The arms can take an additional SRM after that, the legs a Large Laser, and the center torso will nearly take a full on Gauss Rifle hit without breaching.  Nearly.  Good enough.  Rear armor is still good, with the sides able to take PPCs and AC/10s without breaching, and the rear can take a Gauss and still keep the goods safe.  Yeeeeeah.  That's more like it.  Putting any more armor on this would result in a minimum of three points wasted, so I'm willing to call this 'as good as it gets'.

What does all that leave for weapons?  A whole damn lot, apparently.  And more besides.  The -8S is the very first Banshee to mount advanced electronics equipment, in this case in the form of a C3 Slave computer in the left arm.  I'm honestly surprised it's not a C3i, but this is still fairly early in the Jihad, and fortunately for most Successor States the standard C3 network is a widespread piece of technology.  That could explain its proliferation into the Republic Era.  I'm not a huge fan of the location of the computer, because losing the left arm means you lose your connection to the network.  There's also a Guardian ECM Suit in the right torso, which helps to keep the C3 functioning for as long as possible.

What possible role could a Banshee play in a C3 network?  In this case, it's a damn fine spotter.  Already fairly zippy at 64 kph for an Assault of its size, the -8S upgrades to TSM.  When heated up, the -8S can reach speeds of 86 kph, truly blistering for a 'Mech of its size.  It gets better.  This version also has a Hatchet in the left arm, making for 38 point swings when it gets going, and it gets going pretty fast.  The -5S (Sawyer) was melee oriented.  The -8S is melee specialized, and it's damn good at it.  Weaponry is tailored to fine tune heat levels.

A Snub-nose PPC sits opposite the Hatchet in the left arm, supported by an ER Medium Laser in the same.  An ER Large Laser occupies the right torso supported by another ER Medium, and they're joined by two standard Medium Lasers, an ER Small Laser, and the customary head mounted Small Laser.  Finally, an LB-10X occupies the left torso, protected by CASE and fed by two tons of ammunition for good endurance.  A total of 13 DHSs keep the design cool enough to unleash the firepower, but hot enough to keep TSM active. Firing all of the energy weapons larger than Small Lasers at a run will bring the -8S up to a perfect heat level instantly, and there are enough and varied enough weapons on the 'Mech to reach any heat level desired.  Swap the LB-10X in and out for the ER Small Laser for heat purposes when range and to-hit numbers permit, and try to burn through the only explosive components on the 'Mech before the holes start getting opened.

Despite the presence of ECM on this 'Mech, the Snub-nose PPC and the ER Large Laser really lend themselves to parking 210 meters away.  Whether you have a target in range or not, keep the lasers firing to keep that heat up.  When an opponent is properly softened, or there's no danger of the C3 net being compromised by ECM or enemy action, wade into combat and start chopping.  38 point melee hits kill lots of things very quickly, and you'll be able to fire all of the weapons compliment you feel the need to even in the middle of the attack.

Me: “Alpha Strike!  Lay down your judgment.  What is your verdict?”

Alpha Strike: “Awwwww shit yeah.”

Me: “Thank you, Alpha Strike.

But seriously, this thing is a beast.  Damage isn't spectacular, but it is pretty solid at 4/3/2 OV2.  That means, in particular, that getting close is the order of business.  Good deal for a C3 spotter anyway, you'll be getting that close in the course of things.  OV means you can activate the TSM listed without giving up targeting penalties in exchange for no extra damage.  That's definitely a good deal.  TSM also increases melee damage, and the -8S is already an Assault 'Mech.  That means you can deal up to 5 damage in one hit with it at melee ranges.  But wait!  There's more.  The MEL Special means your melee range is extended, and you do more damage, for a truly monstrous 6 damage on a physical attack.  Physical attack rolls aren't affected by heat, so use that to your advantage when you're up close and personal, especially against 'Mechs that can't punch back as well as you can.  While in base to base contact, they can't shoot you, and you will do more damage than they do.  Period.  Also of note, if you're using the Variable Damage optional rule, physical attacks aren't affected by it.  That's right, that means that the six point smack that just happened isn't reduced by variable damage, it's six points whether you're using that rule or not.  Juicy.

MHQ1 also comes with the C3 Slave, and FLK1/1/1 from the LB-10X is honestly just icing on the cake at this point.  Oh, and I didn't get to this earlier, but the increased armor brings the beast up to a full 10 points of armor, the most that any 'Mech can get short of Hardened or Ferro-Lamellor.  Good show, buddy.  That keeps the total durability at 14 points, enough for four taps of the ASMOTW's Thud test and some besides.  Good stuff, especially with an XL engine keeping it fragile.

You pay for it, but oh lord is it worth paying.  A grand total of 49 PV gets you that mobile ball of carnage and electronics.  The role is Brawler, and in this case you absolutely want to be in a Battle Lance all the time.  Those rerolls turn already easy shots into practically guaranteed hits with a C3 net, and nothing says “screw you” like a 6 point melee attack that missed... except it didn't.  Go nuts, folks.  I know I will.



If the -8S is a melee brawler par excellance, the -9S is a sniper for the ages.  The armor, sterling standard that it is, remains the same, and good on it.  The XL Gyro also remains.  What changes, most visibly as yet, at least, is the engine.  Not only did it change back to an LFE, rather than an XLE, it also dropped down to a 285 rating, rather than the 380 that most Banshee's have.

What does that do?  Tonnage for guns.  The untold story of the Banshee is the quest for more guns.  Always and forever, the Banshee must find more room for guns.

The -9S successfully finds a lot of room for guns.  First thing's first, a Gauss Rifle in the left torso, two tons of ammo in the left leg.  The left arm hosts the rest of the big guns, in the form of a Heavy PPC and a Light PPC.  That's some impressive long range damage right there, and it only gets better with the inclusion of an absolutely massive 8-ton targeting computer in the right torso.  Two ER Medium Lasers occupy the right arm, with another in the head.  A standard Medium Laser slots in under the Gauss, and an SRM-6 occupies what space in the right torso that the TC does not.  One ton of ammo in the CASE'd left torso feeds the launcher.

Pretty sweet weapons suite right there.  A total of 14 DHSs struggle with an alpha, but handle the long range guns by themselves perfectly, with even a bit extra to spare.  They also handle the short range guns just as well, likewise with some room to spare.  If anything, the -9S is the slightest bit oversinked for a proper bracket firing design, and definitely oversinked for something that wants to stay at long range most of the game.  Even still, it's a pretty sweet fire support 'Mech, and the perfect foil to the -8S's melee brawler.  Two of the same base chassis of 'Mech that could hardly be more different in execution and role.  An interesting dichotomy to be sure.

How does it play in Alpha Strike?  Pretty well.  Lowering the speed is not something I like, but it keeps the +1 TMM that keeps 'Mechs alive.  The armor is good, up to 15 points.  Not enough to survive another Thud tap, but enough to have a few points left over after fully four of them.  Good marks for armor.

It's the guns, once again, that make this particular machine.  Look at the damage block.  5/5/4 with OV2.  Now that's some pain, easily the highest concentration of potential damage of any Banshees we've seen so far!  I like it.  I'd rather have it and be fast, but you can't have everything.  This one also has CASE.

Those guns make it the most expensive Banshee to date, however.  A full 51 PV to field this monster.  I, personally, think that 5/5/4 OV2 with 15 total points of health is pretty worth it for 51 PV.  The role is also Juggernaut, which makes this guy perfect for anchoring Assault Lances.  It won't get anywhere particularly quick, but it will keep in the fight at any range, and it's got the armor to stay in the field for quite a while.

The Banshee -9S stepped onto the field in 3071 in service to the Lyran Alliance.  Despite how badass the design is, it hasn't proliferated beyond Steiner territory in any great numbers into the Republic Era.



The depths of the Jihad saw many designs that might previously have been considered obsolete return to the fields of battle.  The Banshee BNC-3Mr is one such design.  For all intents and purposes a refit of the old -3M, the -3Mr is fairly similar.  If you recall the beginning of the article (if you don't, I don't blame you), the -3M had two PPCs, two Medium Lasers, and the token Small Laser in the head.  The -3Mr is curiously reminiscent of that, with two ER PPCs and two ER Medium Lasers all in the same locations as the older model, and the token Small Laser in the head.  Heatsinks are upgraded to doubles in order to handle the expanded heat load, and they're not always up to the task for a running alpha strike.  They are, however, up to the task of sending two ER PPCs downrange at a run every turn until the heat death of the universe.  Drop an ER PPC to get a couple ER Mediums in at closer range, and you're golden.

Just so there's no confusion, the armor and engine have not changed from the old -3M.  Fifteen tons, laid out as a classic Banshee.  No frills no thrills.

If you recall the -3M's Alpha Strike unit card, the -3Mr is pretty similar, with exactly one difference.  The upgrade to DHSs allows it to trade out the OV1 from before for the damage it lost to get it.  The damage reads 3/3/2 with no OV, which is 100% identical to what the -3M's would be if it had the heatsinks to handle the guns.  That's the interesting thing about ER Medium Lasers, and to a lesser extent ER PPCs in Alpha Strike.  In the case of the former, there is literally nothing ER Mediums do over standard Mediums.  Nothing.  They're hotter, and that's it.  Same range bands.  ER PPCs avoid minimum range, but otherwise do the exact same damage to the exact same range for more heat.  Fun stuff.  ENE denotes an all energy armament with no explosive components. 

At 41 PV, the -3Mr is pretty solid for the cost, offering average damage at short and medium and fairly good damage at long, for a total of 16 points of armor and structure.  Nice and durable, fast enough to bring firepower to bear, consistent firepower at all ranges, and no huge difficulties in use.  The Sniper role lends itself well to Fire Lances and Assault Lances without much difficulty.

The -3Mr stepped off the lines in 3073, and is oddly enough the first non-Lyran variant to be produced in nearly 150 years.  It is primarily fielded by, of all states, the Free Worlds League and various Periphery powers including the Taurian Concordat, Magistracy of Canopus, and Calderon Protectorate.



This is it folks.  The final stretch.  This and one more variant, and this unwieldy monstrosity of an article will be complete.  If I ever volunteer to do anything like this ever again, someone please lock me up.  The second to last variant on the list is the BNC-11X.  With a designation like that you know it's about to get weird.

Let's start with the similarities to what has already been discussed.  The armor is standard, and matches up nicely with the -8S and -9S models.  Eighteen tons of it arranged mostly intelligently.  The actual distribution changes up a bit, shaving down to 40 points on the center in order to bump up the rear center the same amount to 19 points.  I don't think anything else changed.  Sorta.  More on that in a couple paragraphs.

Endo-Steel structure frees up a few tons, but a standard gyro is used.  That differentiates it from the -8/9 series already, but it's about to get even better.  This thing uses a Clan 380-rated XL engine for locomotion.  Expensive as hell and limited to produce, but damn does it get the job done.  Durability is way up already on this one.

But wait, there's more!  Not content with 18 tons of armor and a Clan XL engine, the -11X takes it up to... well, 11, when it adds no fewer than seven slabs of modular armor, one to each front location save the head.  Well then.  Good show, gents.  That's a lot of tonnage spent on armor, and it does slow the -11X back down to 54 kph while there's still even a shred of modular armor left, but damn if this isn't one protected 'Mech, with the equivalent of 358 points of armor.  Jeez.  What's all this armor carting to the battlefield, anyway?  I hope it's something good.  It better be something good.

Well.... it's not something usual I guess.  The left torso plays host to a Gauss Rifle, again, except this time it's the Silver Bullet brand, laying down cluster shot to traditional gauss ranges and doing it in style.  I love SBGRs, but a quick look at the rest of the armament makes me really reconsider how well this one is used.  Two Bombast Lasers, both in the right torso.  No, that's neither a typo nor a mistake.  Two of them.  And then the token ER Small Laser in the head.  Not a Banshee without that.  Even better, the SBGR is only equipped with one ton of ammo!  You've got 8 shots, make them count.

You know what's great?  It gets even better.  Every single shoulder and hip actuator on this 'Mech is armored.  I'm reasonably sure, rules wise, that this negates the “Limb blown off” critical hit result of a 12 when determining critical hits, and it definitely reduces mobility hits once armor is breached, or penalties to... punching I guess,  but given the relative infrequency of those sort of things happening anyway, the -11X gets an A for effort and a D for Doing it Wrong.  On the other hand, the cockpit is also armored, so at least the pilot is safer than a normal 'Mech.  We'll bump it up to a C-, mostly because even though the -11X spends 3 tons armoring components it does manage to armor the most important one at least.

Fourteen DHSs are enough to handle a full alpha strike at a run with just a blip on the heat scale, and I highly doubt the ER Small is going to be blazing away every turn.  High marks for heat efficiency, as much good as that does.  Imagine, if you will, a MechWarrior 4 display.  The Armor and Heat Efficiency bars are maxed out in the green.  The Speed bar is orange, and the firepower bar is a very, very low orange.  That's basically what the -11X.

In Alpha Strike it's... better, but largely because the Bombast Laser isn't a steaming heap of useless crap in the conversion.  A damage block of 3/4/1 OV0 isn't particularly impressive at long range, but it does have some solid punch at medium where it should probably be doing most of its fighting.

Now, what the -11X does bring to the table is armor.  Lots of it.  Twelve points of it, shielding five points of structure thanks to the Clan XL's reduced vulnerability.  A total of 17 points is respectable for something with an SFE, let alone an XLE in Alpha Strike, so high marks for armor.  It's as slow as most Assaults, though, and will probably lose a slugging match to a good deal of those, so try to keep this one supported with units that can do damage reliably.  Giant bricks that function as damage sponges are great, but they do generally need more damage to help out in order to break even against 'Mechs designed to put out pain first and take it second.  Fortunately for the -11X, it also has the ARM Special, which means that the first crit it takes is just flat out ignored.  CASE or CASEII would be even better, as would CR, but that already reduces the number of crits it can possibly take down below the level I'm terribly concerned about it.  Also appearing is FLK1/1/1, thanks to the Silver Bullet.

All in all, it works much better in Alpha Strike than it does in standard, I'd say.  At 44 PV, it's a pretty pricy thing for the damage it brings (especially compared to the -3Mr just a few paragraphs ago, at 41 for very similar damage), but it will stay on the field for a long time.  No surprise, it's a Juggernaut.  Use it to anchor an Assault Lance or soak up fire in a Command Lance that your commander would otherwise take.  Also worth pointing out is that the -11X has the best art of any Banshee.  So there.  There were exactly three -11Xs built by the Lyran Alliance as testbeds and prototypes.  It's unlikely that they'd be found on the front lines.  But then again, this is BattleTech.



At long last, here is the last variant.  I don't actually even have a year for this one to roll off the production lines, quite honestly.  Neither that nor its faction affiliation are listed on the MUL.  It's fairly new, from the 3145 New Tech, New Upgrades section so that's not a particularly large surprise, but essentially you'll have to use your imaginations for this one.

On the surface of it all, this Banshee is fairly similar to the -9S, including in engine, armor, and the specific distribution of that armor.  Considering it's the -9S2, I'm not surprised in the slightest..  The primary armament is a Gauss Rifle in the left torso, fed by two tons of ammunition in the self same torso and a third(!) in the left leg, and protected by CASE.  The left arm still fits a Heavy PPC and a Light PPC, but now a second Light PPC joins the fun from the right arm.  Some pretty sweet long range fire power going on here.  An ER Medium Laser in the head rounds out the actual weapons equipment on the 'Mech.

It does not, however, finish off all the equipment.  Also much like the -9S, the -9S2 features a gargantuan Targeting Computer in the right torso.  And now, very much unlike the -9S, it also plays host to a Boosted C3 Slave in the same location.  For a Sniper like this, that's a pretty powerful piece of equipment.  The scout rushes in, and then at long range the -9S2 engages with pinpoint accurate fire with big, heavy guns and opens lots and lots of very large holes for the other lance members to exploit.  I'm not a huge fan of C3, but I really like it.  The typical complement of 14 DHSs rounds out the equipment, and manages the heat of a running long range barrage perfectly.  Adding the ER Medium is situational at best, and is probably best largely ignored.

The first thing to know about the -9S2 in Alpha Strike is that it has slowed down.  No longer 8”, it moves 6”.  And then, promptly forget why that matters, and look at the damage.  A fairly impressive line of 4/5/5 OV0 demands and commands respect at all ranges, but particularly medium and long.  It's a rare 'Mech that isn't an LRM boat to have a higher long range damage that short range damage, but somehow the -9S2 pulls it off.  Ten points of armor and five of structure are good to stay on the field a good long while, and the C3BSS Special means contributing from long range is much, much easier than it would be without.  Trivially easy, almost, especially since long range is the -9S2's playground.  Some C3 designs have issues with lacking damage at the ranges C3 networks are expected to fight.  Not so here.  CASE and MHQ1 round out the Specials box.

Standing proud and tall at 52 PV, this is the most expensive Banshee in Alpha Strike.  Not surprising, really, given the exemplary damage, C3 system bumping up all offensive point values, and the fairly good armor and structure shell keeping it in the field.  For reference, this exactly matches the Atlas AS7-D in PV, while significantly outgunning it at nearly all ranges, and coming very close to matching its durability.  It's a preeeetty sweet unit, no doubt about that.

And I do believe that should wrap up the article.  I'm never doing this again.  Ever.  Especially not with anything that has more than five variants.  Enjoy this 14,000 word article.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #3 on: 20 July 2015, 00:30:18 »
Wow, this is one heck of an article.

A while back I watched a particularly brutal game involving a 3E as the ugly duckling of a company versus a nasty collection of Celestials. The only 'Mech standing at the end was the 3E which managed two kills! The WoB player kept ignoring it because there was always something better to fire on. The last kill saw the 3E move in behind a damaged Archangel and simply pummel it to death. It was glorious.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #4 on: 20 July 2015, 00:36:20 »
Ah, the Banshee.  I don't think there's ever been another mech that's had quite such a reputation change- the 3E was marginally better than the Urbanmech and the Charger, and now we've got the 9S2, which is just an unholy monstrosity.

Also, applause for actually writing out that entire thing, Scotty.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #5 on: 20 July 2015, 00:47:52 »
Jesu Christo, that's a big one.  Nice going, Scotty, I'm impressed.

As for substance, I learned a lot about Alpha Strike -- which I've never played -- which was still nice to know.  Principally, as a Marik player I was curious how the -3M is viewed and frankly it's about what I expected.  Yeah, it's short on heat sinks, which is usually an issue in standard tech designs.  But I recommend using the -3M in a Marik heavy lance the way you'd normally employ a Warhammer.  It chews more weight and/or BV (depending on how you build with 3025 stuff), but it's more survivable than a Warhammer as well.  WHM-6Rs are fairly short on armor, a failing that the BNC-3M doesn't suffer from.  Playing the part of a turret, it doesn't mind a 2-2-1 PPC pattern too much, and once some holes are punched it can wade in close and switch over to one particle cannon and the medium lasers without building too much heat and start laying about with some heavy punches or an even heavier kick.  My experience is that it works fairly well as a hole-puncher or spearhead for some of the FWLM's common lightweight heavies (Thud, Crusader) and heavyweight mediums (Wolverine, Trebuchet).  The -3Mr is a logical upgrade, sure, but if we're into the 3050 age I'd rather take the -5S because holy shit on a shingle that thing is a beast.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #6 on: 20 July 2015, 05:50:28 »
nice article, thanks  O0 This really helps show the comparison between Alpha Strike and Regular BT.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #7 on: 20 July 2015, 06:35:39 »
Holy Crap! :o
Ok, now that I actually read it:
Impressive Article! Lot's of good info in here.
One question:
How come the 11X is 4" MV in Alpha Strike?
Ok, actually two: Which side is the Hatchet on in the 8S?
« Last Edit: 20 July 2015, 11:38:16 by UnLimiTeD »
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #8 on: 20 July 2015, 09:15:57 »
One mistake in the 3E variant. You write "The performance difference between the two is that the -3E manages a top speed of 86 kph", which obviously should read 64 kph. This ain't a Charger ;)

Good article. And...  :o three posts... Wow.


I like... i want to like the Banshee. I love the idea of IS fast assault. Specifically, fast IntroTech assault. Unfortunate it is so under-gunned. Heck, it (3E) could be easily better, just swap a pair of heat sinks for Medium Lasers. Would require a bit of bracketing but i think the extra close range firepower is worth it. Heck, dropping yet another heat sink for a third Medium Laser would not be a bad idea either, that way you'd have respectable firepower within the minimum range the AC/5 and PPC.
I don't mind mechs being a bit lacking or having issues but Banshee 3E has a bit too many inefficiencies. Makes a good basis for custom variants for campaign games though, i think.

Of the later variants, the 5S is pretty good, for it retains the fast speed i like but i'd modify it a bit.
I have to admit the 3S is terrifyingly powerful but... eh, the speed is low. Gotta try it some day though.


I think i prefer my customized La Malinche from MWO as Banshee's go, though direct translation for tabletop Battletech makes it kind of terrible... (I'll make a thread for Banshee customization, i think.)

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #9 on: 20 July 2015, 09:58:49 »
Cheese wheels and full brassieres, that's not an article, that's a frigging tome! :o

Quote
And really, that's what Banshees do.  They shoot a little bit, and then wade into slugging range.

To me, this has always summed up the mission role of any Banshee. Load up on the armor, and bring just enough gun to make surviving to melee range feasible. Then charge in close, and explain to the other guy that maintaining a cohesive lance formation just ain't gonna happen. I've never had much use for most S-series Banshees. They're fine assault mechs, but they always struck me as Yet Another Assault Mech. For the longest time I always saw the -3Mr as the true epitome of the Banshee line, but reading this has convinced me to give the -8S a shot someday.

Me: “Alpha Strike!  Lay down your judgment.  What is your verdict?”

Alpha Strike: “Awwwww shit yeah.”

Me: “Thank you, Alpha Strike."

...okay, this part may have convinced me. ;D
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #10 on: 20 July 2015, 11:31:00 »
Discovering the -8S made this entire article totally worth it.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #11 on: 20 July 2015, 12:37:26 »
Dear god Scotty, when did you find time to sleep! :D

I fought the Banshee 3Q in a 3025 Urban map, the speed and relatively deep ammo bid actually makes it deadly in a city fight. Ran down main street and started tearing my Zues apart after my LRMs and AC/5 only managed to scrap the paint job.
 
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #12 on: 20 July 2015, 12:49:31 »
Holy Crap! :o
Ok, now that I actually read it:
Impressive Article! Lot's of good info in here.
One question:
How come the 11X is 4" MV in Alpha Strike?

Modular Armor.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #13 on: 20 July 2015, 12:58:02 »
Dear god Scotty, when did you find time to sleep! :D

Sleep?  Who do you take me for? :D

Quote
I fought the Banshee 3Q in a 3025 Urban map, the speed and relatively deep ammo bid actually makes it deadly in a city fight. Ran down main street and started tearing my Zues apart after my LRMs and AC/5 only managed to scrap the paint job.

The problem with the 3Q is more one of being 250 years too early for the one piece equipment that makes all it's troubles go away.  Swap one ton of ammo for exactly one slot of CASE II and it usually becomes terrifying.  Otherwise, it's faaaar too vulnerable to hits on the left torso.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #14 on: 20 July 2015, 13:05:02 »
Modular Armor.

So Modular armor reduces its speed from 4/6 to 3/5, and then reduces it even further in AS (since, IIRC it requires a 2 walking MP to get to 4" movement?).

Seems odd?

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #15 on: 20 July 2015, 13:09:10 »
Hmm.  I'll go back and check the engine rating for that one again (did I specify?) And see if that's the actual correct MV.  It could be whoever was converting the variant saw "3/5" and assumed that was the unmodified speed.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #16 on: 20 July 2015, 13:42:51 »
So Modular armor reduces its speed from 4/6 to 3/5, and then reduces it even further in AS (since, IIRC it requires a 2 walking MP to get to 4" movement?).

Seems odd?

Or just that somebody didn't notice that the 3/5 was only reduced by the modular armor.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #17 on: 20 July 2015, 13:47:57 »
Oh, and if you wanna hear some good Banshee stories, wait until Atlas3060 comes in here, and ask him what prompted him to go up to Herb at a convention and open the conversation with "Dude, you should have SEEN what Weirdo's wife did to him in the hotel room last night!"
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #18 on: 20 July 2015, 15:44:46 »
Whew... made it.

Scotty, that was a fine article and much appreciated. Yes, for sanity's sake it probably makes sense to not mix Total Warfare and AS into the same article. That said, it was a nice comparison to see how the Banshee fares under both systems.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #19 on: 20 July 2015, 23:15:19 »
The -3E is an underrated gem.  The -3S is too slow for my tastes.  The -5S is decent.  The higher -S series can get interesting (particularly the -8S, which is basically the Berserker's slightly smaller brother), and the -11X is just downright bizarre.  Truly XTRO material, that one is.  Lots of 'flavor'. ^-^
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #20 on: 20 July 2015, 23:26:14 »
As a Leaguer, I love that we obviously captured so many Banshees from the Lyrans before the 4th War that we had the need to produce two separate runs of variants.

Starting with the 8Q, I love this as the quintissential bodyguard for a command lance or fire lance. Ain't no-one going to be sniffing around inside minimum ranges of your buddies when your boomstick waits. And 4/6 (sorry, all my experience lies before Alpha Strike) is suprisingly agile when guarding massed Awesomes, or even Archers.

The 8M I tended to use as, ironically enough, an "Awesome Light". It's got thick armour, the PPCs give you something to do while charging to close range, when your battlefists and pair of medium lasers come into their own. Has to be killed the hard way. Opponents in pre-DHS eras just can't afford to ignore one of these getting up close & personal.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #21 on: 21 July 2015, 21:15:57 »
Hmm, myself, I've used several different varieties of Banshee's, though the most memorable was in an Alpha Strike game right after the book was released.  I own the Lyran company from that book (because I painted it!) and so gave it a test drive.  Before the +2 to fire due to jumping, a good fifty percent of that company can jump and got stuck in some woods and held the line while the Assault Lance (5S Banshee, Stalker, 9S Zeus, and basic Salamander) guarded the flank.  You pretty much went, I want that guy to die.  Boom, the assault lance leveled it.(http://bg.battletech.com/forums/after-action-reports/alpha-strike-does-hexes/ )  Anyway, great backbone unit. 

I've also partied with the 3S in level 1/3025/intro tech/whatever we call it today and it's a beast plain and simple.  I don't mind the changed mission profile as it gives a nasty assault 'mech to someone who isn't an Atlas, Awesome, or Dragoon.

Most of the models are good as well, though there's the drunken one that just kind of sucks :-/

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #22 on: 21 July 2015, 21:40:47 »
Most of the models are good as well, though there's the drunken one that just kind of sucks :-/

You mean the one that looked up, then looked down, then looked at Mr. Frying Pan? :)
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #23 on: 22 July 2015, 01:25:02 »
I can't help but to love the 11X for the simple fact it was built for someone with way too much money and absolutely no combat experience (or sense for that matter)
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #24 on: 22 July 2015, 02:51:28 »
Its definitely an interesting look at a wide range of designs.

A couple of things...after looking at the math for the overheat, and looking at the section in the AS books that handles that...its one of those sections that just seems poorly written. Leaves me with questions and confusion. It makes sense once its explained, but the book just leaves me puzzled.

As for the `Mechs...I'm not sure I'd compare the 3MC to the 3M. The naming is similar, but I think that's just a coincidence, and so the 3MC should be compared to the 3E rather than the 3M. I'm not really sure it makes it any better, but hopefully the thinking was "How can we upgrade the 3Es we have," rather than "How can we kind of mess up the 3Ms we've gotten over the years." :)

And its rather interesting to see how the different Banshees stack up against each other, but its rather scary to think "Man, if some of these Banshees run into a Mars (ATM) at short range, the entire `Mech can die in one turn...

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #25 on: 22 July 2015, 09:58:55 »
But that's true of most mechs.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #26 on: 22 July 2015, 13:18:55 »
Well true. It just stuck in my head because every design prior to the 5S would survive the first salvo, while with the introduction of the 5S it would suddenly become a one shot, one kill, and for the exact amount. It wouldn't be until the changeover to the LFE that it would be able to handle a salvo. I just found it interesting since its right on the balance and really kind of highlights the change in structure values in a rather stark way.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #27 on: 22 July 2015, 13:27:00 »
Well, there's always the Turkina Z to make those go away too.
Honestly, I can't think if too many situations where a Banshee would opt to get that close.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #28 on: 22 July 2015, 14:07:51 »
Worth every minute.  Good article.   O0

3E is by far my favorite variant in CBT and in Alpha Strike.  In both games, this guy is awesome with physicals, may it be charge, kick, or punches.  Although, charging seems to miss out in Alpha Strike.  It does the same damage as a standard physical...  unless there is some benefit to it I just can't see.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #29 on: 22 July 2015, 22:02:58 »
Great article. Love the 3E and 3S from back in the day.

I would love to see a set of charts or graphs in these articles that plots out the different data points (damage, A/S, PV, etc.)  of the different models and variants. I can't imagine how much work that would be to create, but I'd love to visually see the changes in the models.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #30 on: 22 July 2015, 22:52:24 »
Huh.  I don't think it'd be monumentally difficult.  I'll see what I can do.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #31 on: 23 July 2015, 13:23:33 »
Thank you so much for this article!!! This is one of my most favorite mechs. I have a full company of different ones.  Thank you also for the AS stuff, I haven't gotten to play it yet but I'm really wanting to.

The only model banshee I really dislike is the 5S Sawyer...banshees shouldn't jump.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #32 on: 23 July 2015, 15:01:32 »
The only model banshee I really dislike is the 5S Sawyer...banshees shouldn't jump.
Even the Atlas has a model that jumps
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #33 on: 23 July 2015, 15:10:55 »
I don't like any Atlas. Let's keep it to the beauty that's the Banshee though.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #34 on: 23 July 2015, 15:38:02 »
What if it just hops or skips?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #35 on: 23 July 2015, 15:41:09 »
The Sawyer is a Custom like the X11 so it's allowed to be crazy.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #36 on: 23 July 2015, 15:56:35 »
Wasn't there a custom Banshee in the 3025 days that had jumps and wore a jesters cap think it was in a Davion only mercenary unit 

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #37 on: 23 July 2015, 16:12:38 »
Probably, no Lyran would be caught like that.

What if it just hops or skips?

 Only if the 1812 overture is playing in the background.  8)
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #38 on: 23 July 2015, 16:56:08 »
Wasn't there a custom Banshee in the 3025 days that had jumps and wore a jesters cap think it was in a Davion only mercenary unit
You're thinking of Captain Greg Oliphant of the Eridani Light Horse.  He's one of the Notable Pilots in the Banshee's entry in TRO 3039.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #39 on: 24 July 2015, 00:46:18 »
I have to admit, when I played a lot at the the 3025 tech level, to looking at the stock Banshee -3E and
trying to see if the firepower could be upgraded with the least change to the design. Least disruptive
seemed to perhaps sacrifice a little armor on the arms to get the laser in the head from a small to
medium. Tough to give the -3E the bite it really needs but if you are some militia guy just happy to
not be dispossessed you live with it in the Battletech universe I imagine.

 Keeps you familiar with the basics of mech design rules if nothing else...!

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #40 on: 24 July 2015, 07:09:52 »
A gloriously well written wall-o-text critted me for 10k and it was great! :) Superb article! :)
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #41 on: 24 July 2015, 08:59:40 »
What if it just hops or skips?
That means Weirdo's piloting it.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #42 on: 31 July 2015, 11:45:17 »
Great article!

I've always has a perverse love for the Banshee, even the old 3025 model. It's neat to see how they've evolved in from a derpy oddball into something terrifying.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #43 on: 19 October 2016, 01:25:11 »
Sleep?  Who do you take me for? :D

The problem with the 3Q is more one of being 250 years too early for the one piece equipment that makes all it's troubles go away.  Swap one ton of ammo for exactly one slot of CASE II and it usually becomes terrifying.  Otherwise, it's faaaar too vulnerable to hits on the left torso.

Found this article linked from another thread on 'Bad' designs.  Can't believe I missed this Magnum Opus.

Though to be fair, we all know that 250 years later the FWL wouldn't fix the -3Q with such a sensible refit.  No, they'd clearly just swap out that dated boomstick for a shiny new LGR...

...and one more ton of ammo, of course. ;D
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #44 on: 19 October 2016, 02:10:49 »
I ran a Banshee 9S in the Masters and Minions event at GenCon this year.  I was the only one on the team who was using an IS mech.  I was also using the lightest mech in the group (the others were a Kodiak 2, a Daishi C, and a Cygnus 2).  I was also by far the premier damage dealer on the team: the Gauss, HPPC, and LPPC tied with the TC meant that I was scoring far more hits than everyone else.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #45 on: 19 October 2016, 14:06:55 »
Wow, sounds like you really showed up to that game. Good job at doing so well.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #46 on: 25 October 2016, 17:12:24 »
Did the values change on the first one?
Edit: Like Scotty calculated, actually.
« Last Edit: 25 October 2016, 17:14:49 by UnLimiTeD »
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #47 on: 25 October 2016, 17:49:39 »
Wow.  Tagged.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #48 on: 25 January 2022, 03:26:14 »
Coming back to this thread after doing a review on the Banshee BNC-12S from Recognition Guide: IlClan Volume 17, and basically all I have to say about it is that it's very nearly a perfect Assault 'Mech and it comes inches away from being genuinely perfect.  Top marks, strong recommend, it's the best Banshee and it's not close.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #49 on: 25 January 2022, 10:57:00 »
The Banshee is one of those Mechs that gets better with age.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #50 on: 25 January 2022, 12:49:31 »
Coming back to this thread after doing a review on the Banshee BNC-12S from Recognition Guide: IlClan Volume 17, and basically all I have to say about it is that it's very nearly a perfect Assault 'Mech and it comes inches away from being genuinely perfect.  Top marks, strong recommend, it's the best Banshee and it's not close.

I didn't see it in your original article above.

Will you be adding it?

I love the Banshee & my only real complaint about the 3050+ models is we never once, AFAIK, get a direct upgrade to the 3S that is using a SFE-285.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #51 on: 25 January 2022, 14:38:00 »
Probably not.  If I do that I also have to fix all of the Alpha Strike card links that broke, and frankly I don't feel like doing that.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #52 on: 25 January 2022, 17:20:26 »
I love the Banshee & my only real complaint about the 3050+ models is we never once, AFAIK, get a direct upgrade to the 3S that is using a SFE-285.

Well, there's the 9S and 9S2, which both use a 285 Light engine.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #53 on: 25 January 2022, 18:36:19 »
Well, there's the 9S and 9S2, which both use a 285 Light engine.
I'm aware, but, its still not a SFE.
The LFE isn't a great choice there, IMHO.
Nearly doubling the engine crits count for all of 4 tons added firepower.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #54 on: 25 January 2022, 18:39:27 »
Is it just me or is the 12S basically the 5S but built to clan spec?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #55 on: 25 January 2022, 19:15:03 »
Aside from having all the medium lasers in the torso and facing forward, yes.  Though it's really more of a Clanspec 3S.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #56 on: 25 January 2022, 21:36:41 »
Aside from having all the medium lasers in the torso and facing forward, yes.  Though it's really more of a Clanspec 3S.

It has a 380XL engine & a Gauss & is short a couple DHS for being an Alpha Baby from what I can see.

To me that is very much the 5S & not the 3S
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #57 on: 25 January 2022, 22:03:28 »
The weapon positions are based on the 3S, though.  It just upgrades the AC 10 for a GR and uses ER energy weapons.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #58 on: 26 January 2022, 11:01:51 »
Coming back to this thread after doing a review on the Banshee BNC-12S from Recognition Guide: IlClan Volume 17, and basically all I have to say about it is that it's very nearly a perfect Assault 'Mech and it comes inches away from being genuinely perfect.  Top marks, strong recommend, it's the best Banshee and it's not close.

Use that new BNC-12S in an Alpha Strike game recently and it put out some serious damage at long and medium range.  It had the side benefit of being the luckiest unit on the board--got down to 2 structure but somehow never died.  It was outrageously lucky. 

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #59 on: 26 January 2022, 11:09:45 »
The weapon positions are based on the 3S, though.  It just upgrades the AC 10 for a GR and uses ER energy weapons.
Yes, it's a WYSIWYG upgrade to the 3S. The 5S had the same philosophy but the weapon placement and reliance on a IS XL made a bigger difference than you would think.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #60 on: 26 January 2022, 11:32:10 »
Yes, it's a WYSIWYG upgrade to the 3S. The 5S had the same philosophy but the weapon placement and reliance on a IS XL made a bigger difference than you would think.

Correct, but remember that only the ER Lasers (4 medium, 2 small) are Clan Spec weaponry on the 12S.  The rest is IS tech:  Gauss Rifle, 2 ER PPCs, and the SRM 6.  It's like they wanted to avoid going full munchkin, but went just far enough with the Clan Engine and Lasers for us to sit up and take notice that damn, this is a monster.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #61 on: 26 January 2022, 11:57:56 »
I always thought the term Munchkin was stupid. If you have the gun, you are going to use it. Besides, it's hard to do anything else with the Banshee at this point without bumping up the tech level.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #62 on: 26 January 2022, 12:11:46 »
I always thought the term Munchkin was stupid. If you have the gun, you are going to use it. Besides, it's hard to do anything else with the Banshee at this point without bumping up the tech level.

Yep, just saying that it is like a 3/4 Clan tech Banshee, unlike the Lyrans new Crusader, which looks to be a Clan Machine (maybe not the structure/armor).

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #63 on: 26 January 2022, 15:22:53 »
It's because Inner Sphere factions were only able to produce Clantech in the Rec Guides that they've been shown to produce in other sources.  Defiance Industries has thus far only been shown producing Clantech lasers, missiles, and XL engines.  They haven't been shown producing Clantech PPCs or Gauss Rifles yet.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #64 on: 27 January 2022, 12:12:36 »
Besides, it's hard to do anything else with the Banshee at this point without bumping up the tech level.
/cough,  SFE-285 !!
What can I say, I just really want a SFE Banshee moving 3/5 that is beyond Intro tech level.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #65 on: 27 January 2022, 13:31:30 »
/cough,  SFE-285 !!
What can I say, I just really want a SFE Banshee moving 3/5 that is beyond Intro tech level.

... Yeah, I have a simple upgrade to the 3S but I'm guessing it's too simple for many as it would be competing with so many other 3/5 designs.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #66 on: 27 January 2022, 13:42:51 »
... Yeah, I have a simple upgrade to the 3S
Ditto,
I've posted ideas in the design section over the years.
It doesn't need a lot of "new" tech.
I don't think I've ever used anything past 3050/C3 in most of them.
The 3S lends itself to sticking w/ the basics but boosting the range/reach of the big 3 guns.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #67 on: 27 January 2022, 14:18:34 »
I won't be posting mine in Fan Designs only because it's too simple, upgrading to DHS does allot. Staying on topic and keeping away from fan designs, the 12S does allot more that many GMs wouldn't allow without a official RS.

The 12S gives us the firepower of the 3S, upgrades it while hardly compromising any survivability for speed (if you loos both side torso on this mech...how? ) The 5S does a great job but that IS XL can be a problem (yes, I'm talking from personal experiences. Always load Infernos) The 6S, 7S and 9S are decent compromises between the 3S and 5S (the Wobbie 8S isn't to be ignored, just a different design direction going 100% AX Murder)

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #68 on: 27 January 2022, 14:42:58 »
... Yeah, I have a simple upgrade to the 3S but I'm guessing it's too simple for many as it would be competing with so many other 3/5 designs.

The 3S with an LB 10-X swap and CASE is probably better than any IS assault in TRO3050 except maybe the 5S.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #69 on: 27 January 2022, 15:01:14 »
The 3S with an LB 10-X swap and CASE is probably better than any IS assault in TRO3050 except maybe the 5S.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #70 on: 27 January 2022, 17:05:04 »
I remember trying to build a hypothetical 4S and running into the "problem" of a straight upgrade of the 3S simply being too good compared to the 5S.  Though I have to wonder if we're ever going to see a Banshee 10S and 11S at any point?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #71 on: 27 January 2022, 17:11:11 »
I remember trying to build a hypothetical 4S and running into the "problem" of a straight upgrade of the 3S simply being too good compared to the 5S.  Though I have to wonder if we're ever going to see a Banshee 10S and 11S at any point?

Yeah, but keeping the SFE & skipping Endo lets you run it as a "field refit" instead of a factory production model.
There is a benefit of having 4/6 to be sure.
I just would rather keep my top end assaults Slow & Durable
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #72 on: 27 January 2022, 17:42:41 »
That's my point: simply upgrading the heatsinks and weapons and adding CASE makes for a machine that's significantly better than the 5S in everything but speed, and the serious durability boost by having a standard engine as well as a few extra tons to devote to armor really negates that.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #73 on: 28 January 2022, 11:09:23 »
Getting it back up to 4/6 seems to have been one of the main goals of the 5S. Making it 3/5 may arguably make for a better mech, but if you don’t want a Warhawk kiting you 4/6 is what you need.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #74 on: 29 January 2022, 10:39:23 »
a Warhawk kiting you
Too funny an image.

That's right up there with someone's sig line that was something like "Elmo will flank with Devastator & Stalker"
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #75 on: 29 January 2022, 21:29:03 »
That's right up there with someone's sig line that was something like "Elmo will flank with Devastator & Stalker"


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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #76 on: 24 November 2022, 01:24:44 »
The 6S, my favourite banshee, is extinct by the dark age. Sadface. Even -8S manufactured for the WOB survive until ilclan era.

I guess the 7S entering production the next year means that not many were ever produced, but I really think it's a great, (certainly not perfect) and characterful mech.


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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #77 on: 24 November 2022, 02:04:45 »
I suspect it was primarily intended as a test-bed for the Heavy Gauss Rifle and got a consequently short production run because it wasn't really intended to fight.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #78 on: 24 November 2022, 14:27:38 »
The 12S has debuted since this article and I'm not adding more to this monstrosity but it is the best Banshee by a good margin.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #79 on: 24 November 2022, 14:59:29 »
Does it have the requisite fist/gun ratio?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #80 on: 24 November 2022, 15:13:09 »
For your tastes?  No, it's a descendent of the 5S like its designation suggests.

It does have the requisite speed, though.

EDIT: Cliffnotes version:

4/6 Clan XL, 14 DHS

2x IS ER PPC
1x IS Gauss Rifle (2 tons ammo, legs)
4x Clan ER Medium Lasers
1x SRM 6 (1 ton ammo, left torso, CASE)
2x Clan ER Small Lasers

288/293 total armor, missing 2 points each leg and 1 point CT
« Last Edit: 24 November 2022, 15:17:58 by Scotty »
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #81 on: 24 November 2022, 15:18:04 »
The 12S has debuted since this article and I'm not adding more to this monstrosity but it is the best Banshee by a good margin.

Given the amount of Clantech it's got, I'd certainly hope so.  Be pretty pathetic if it was beaten by one of the all-IS tech variants.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #82 on: 24 November 2022, 15:19:44 »
Given the amount of Clantech it's got, I'd certainly hope so.  Be pretty pathetic if it was beaten by one of the all-IS tech variants.

It is also a strong contender for best value buy even with its BV as high as it is, beyond being simply the most capable individual record sheet among Banshees.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week MEGA ARTICLE: BNC-** Banshee
« Reply #83 on: 24 November 2022, 15:29:37 »
I suspect it was primarily intended as a test-bed for the Heavy Gauss Rifle and got a consequently short production run because it wasn't really intended to fight.
The concept was certainly proved; the pilot upgrade it needs (4/4 minimum) is the only drawback. Even that's mitigated by the fact it loves to punch things in the face

Does it have the requisite fist/gun ratio?

Same as the original banshee, 3 guns.