Author Topic: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV  (Read 169430 times)

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #750 on: 03 February 2021, 11:36:48 »
...possible with the New St Andrews Factories...

While military action is (and was) a posibility even in the situation that NSA now have a centralized goverment, it appears that the MH, whie expanding their military and industry since the Jihad, made a bet on "soft" power and diplomacy, a "carrot and stick" kind of diplomacy, to extended their influence to a number of former FWL and circinian worlds. I could assume that something similar coul be happening with NSA.

Also there is the fact that outsider interests are also present in NSA, Interstellar Explorations in this case.
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Adacas

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #751 on: 03 February 2021, 14:41:47 »
While military action is (and was) a posibility even in the situation that NSA now have a centralized goverment, it appears that the MH, whie expanding their military and industry since the Jihad, made a bet on "soft" power and diplomacy, a "carrot and stick" kind of diplomacy, to extended their influence to a number of former FWL and circinian worlds. I could assume that something similar coul be happening with NSA.

Also there is the fact that outsider interests are also present in NSA, Interstellar Explorations in this case.

But if the authors go from having that policy in 3145, to a crazy attack on the FWL, it even seems that the authors do not read the book that was previously written 5 years earlier in the timeline, I am not talking about 20 years in which policies can change from one cesar to another, it is Cesar himself

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #752 on: 03 February 2021, 17:45:15 »
1) Those advanced factories were never completed by the WoB after Julius cut ties with them. The Marians spent the Jihad and post-Jihad slowly staffing and activating them.
2) Everyone else in the post-Jihad setting except the Republic and CapCon suffers from constant pirate attacks. Yet you don't see them stagnating technologically.
3) Nope. Both Julius and Cassius valued R&D. Cassius almost bankrupted the nation to start Mech production and spent vast sums hiring Dr Daffyd Rou and finishing the Ravager factory.
According to the novel "Double Blind", the Marians got the lion's share of advanced mechs from the Word of Blake.  They didn't have advanced factories of their own. 
According to the Field Manual 3145, "This recovery has been slowed by increased combat action across the coreward region of the Hegemony, where the I, II, and III Legios have all been experiencing nearly triple the number of bandit raids since hostilities with the Lothian League were suspended".  Clearly, resources were being eaten up there.
Whether there has been a considerable investment in R+D or not, they have a long way to go to reach everyone else's technical proficiency levels.  What they have achieved is pretty good considering where they started.

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #753 on: 03 February 2021, 18:46:13 »
Definitely Mr. Jimidigris likes to take what seems to him as real or not, since 3067 the Marian Hegemony builds both the command and the Locust the first one said in the tro 3050 update and the Locust appears in the Techmanual as the first hegemonic mech

The Actions against Lothario were banned by Ignatius O'Really upon the death of his father in 3090, it is more swear never to attack Logan Prime again, the wave of pirate attacks in the surrounding area of Circinus is real and every 10 years or so there is a re-outbreak The Legions go and destroy everything, hence they are so fired up, but the problem for your reasoning is that there is no hegemonic industrial planet in that area since Illyria recently had a factory in 3130 and all the other hegemonic factories are in the Province by Alphard
« Last Edit: 03 February 2021, 18:55:57 by Adacas »

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #754 on: 03 February 2021, 20:24:52 »
Curious...

If Marian HMI produces the Shilone, which variant would you produce more of? Standard  SL-17 or the AC/2 popper, SL-17AC?

Cause everything else is way to high in tech... maybe the SL-17R, but that's it.

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #755 on: 04 February 2021, 01:20:22 »
According to the novel "Double Blind", the Marians got the lion's share of advanced mechs from the Word of Blake.  They didn't have advanced factories of their own. 
According to the Field Manual 3145, "This recovery has been slowed by increased combat action across the coreward region of the Hegemony, where the I, II, and III Legios have all been experiencing nearly triple the number of bandit raids since hostilities with the Lothian League were suspended".  Clearly, resources were being eaten up there.
Whether there has been a considerable investment in R+D or not, they have a long way to go to reach everyone else's technical proficiency levels.  What they have achieved is pretty good considering where they started.

And where did they start? Julius had started the baby steps of modernizing the realm.

Seems there is a selective ignorance of information here.

As others have mentioned, there is a deliberate artificial weakening or stagnation  of the Hegemony and in the case of Kendall, you don't go soft on militias that nuke your troops and deliberately cripple their own agriculture.

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #756 on: 04 February 2021, 01:22:27 »
But if the authors go from having that policy in 3145, to a crazy attack on the FWL, it even seems that the authors do not read the book that was previously written 5 years earlier in the timeline, I am not talking about 20 years in which policies can change from one cesar to another, it is Cesar himself

Yes, there is an inconsistency of canon for "designated loser" factions since the 3145 series came out. The Hegemony is but one of those factions. While the "designated winner" factions are artificially overpowered or achieve impossible things with laughable amount of low resources.

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #757 on: 04 February 2021, 01:28:20 »
If the Lyrans put a hypothetical fear because a peripheral nation with whom they have no prior history of warfare, over and above a strategic benefit like having someone make Marik's life very miserable would be a dire perception of both military strategy and absolute commercial blindness, which we fully know that the Lyrans are neither blind nor one-eyed when it comes to doing business

Exactly. And in canon the Lyrans sponsor Regulus after the Jihad to destabilize the former FWL even though Lyran citizens want Regulan blood for genociding Poulsbo. Logically, they will definitely sponsor the Hegemony to counterbalance Tamarind.

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #758 on: 04 February 2021, 03:45:40 »
Exactly. And in canon the Lyrans sponsor Regulus after the Jihad to destabilize the former FWL even though Lyran citizens want Regulan blood for genociding Poulsbo. Logically, they will definitely sponsor the Hegemony to counterbalance Tamarind.

 . . . Trillian is not in a position to do any foreign adventuring.  It is also not her League border she worries about.  IMO the picture as presented in FM3145 and what we get in Shattered Sphere is they bought, sort of, into Stone's Peace and were not pushing a production recovery though may have had a tech one.  Since the Jihad they have had a steady bleeding out of the Legions strength due to getting Teutonberg'd in a former province they have since abandoned.  They fought the Rim Commonality and IIRC MoC over Astrokasy (lost), and have also had to fend off regular pirate raids- some probably fostered by Tamarind & Rim governments.

They do have a support infrastructure that is pretty well developed since they have purchasing agents to buy mechs & armor to rebuild from across the Inner Sphere.  But the Hegemony is not like other Periphery realms, they are 'new.'  They never fought the Star League or built up during the Golden Age . . . so it is not like they can put abandoned plants back into operation like the MoC or TC, and while they were buddies with the Blakists for a while they did not get the same quality of tech transfers the Trinity Alliance fostered.

Like I said, their geography sucks . . . they are not sitting on the border of two realms where they can reap advantages by carefully playing the Inners against each other.  They can trade with the League but the distance to anyone else worth trading with is LONG . . . sure commercial ties to the Lyrans might exist but that is a months long journey.  Especially if they do not want to travel through (or welcome to) League space- and what they want to trade for, they will not want the League to know about.
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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #759 on: 04 February 2021, 06:21:07 »
Definitely Mr. Jimidigris likes to take what seems to him as real or not, since 3067 the Marian Hegemony builds both the command and the Locust the first one said in the tro 3050 update and the Locust appears in the Techmanual as the first hegemonic mech
Personal attacks don't win arguments.
I'm sorry that your favorite faction isn't producing state-of-the-art machines, but that's life. 
Also, be sure to proof-read.

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #760 on: 04 February 2021, 10:44:46 »
There may not be enough proof for you, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.  As discussed earlier the MH recently has not got much stage time . I'd love to get an update for the periphery soon.

It is however logical to assume the MH has continued its upgrade program between the 3080 write up to what little we have in 3145. We have seen smaller more isolated powers do it (Randis, the Hansa, etc) . I think you would find similar problem finding info that the MH hasn't upgraded.

We just need more information.
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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #761 on: 04 February 2021, 10:50:59 »
Personal attacks don't win arguments.
I'm sorry that your favorite faction isn't producing state-of-the-art machines, but that's life. 
Also, be sure to proof-read.

I'm not a native speaker, so I can get it if there are a lot of forum members who can't produce perfect grammar.

Adacas does have a point with the Mech production since 3067, plus the AIV launcher, Ultra AC and FF armour on the Testudo is Star League level of technology for the Hegemony.

That is why it is baffling when they are inexplicably written to lose in a terrible way against factions that auto-win because they were designated as so. Come on. Launching a berserker drive at both the neoFWL and Canopus when the former had reunited and already subjugated Regulus and not occupied with the Wolves or Lyrans while Canopus had Liao and Andurien backing? Are these the actions of a veteran military?

It's just like a 12 year-old playing Pokemon and grinding his best team to high levels before having a cakewalk through the game. The Marians were scripted to lose.

If the scenario wanted to be credible and believable, the Marians should've launched this campaign well before the neoFWL formed and Canopus being occupied with the Suns. As it is, it looks like a neoFWL and Canopian ultimate victorious fan fiction coming true in canon.
« Last Edit: 04 February 2021, 10:52:36 by ArkRoyalRavager »

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #762 on: 04 February 2021, 11:02:17 »
. . . Trillian is not in a position to do any foreign adventuring.  It is also not her League border she worries about.  IMO the picture as presented in FM3145 and what we get in Shattered Sphere is they bought, sort of, into Stone's Peace and were not pushing a production recovery though may have had a tech one.  Since the Jihad they have had a steady bleeding out of the Legions strength due to getting Teutonberg'd in a former province they have since abandoned.  They fought the Rim Commonality and IIRC MoC over Astrokasy (lost), and have also had to fend off regular pirate raids- some probably fostered by Tamarind & Rim governments.

Wow. The Sons of Mars buying into Stone's Peace? The Periphery never bought into Stone's Peace because of the pirate problem and their small militaries to begin with.

Not pushing a production recovery? Cassius wouldn't have bothered with nearly bankrupting the nation to bootstrap native Marian military and especially Mech production, would he?

Quote
They do have a support infrastructure that is pretty well developed since they have purchasing agents to buy mechs & armor to rebuild from across the Inner Sphere.  But the Hegemony is not like other Periphery realms, they are 'new.'  They never fought the Star League or built up during the Golden Age . . . so it is not like they can put abandoned plants back into operation like the MoC or TC, and while they were buddies with the Blakists for a while they did not get the same quality of tech transfers the Trinity Alliance fostered.

I wonder what happened to those abandoned plants and new plants in the TC after the asteroid attacks on Taurus, the Roughrider razing attacks and the secession of worlds like Sterope.

Quote
Like I said, their geography sucks . . . they are not sitting on the border of two realms where they can reap advantages by carefully playing the Inners against each other.  They can trade with the League but the distance to anyone else worth trading with is LONG . . . sure commercial ties to the Lyrans might exist but that is a months long journey.  Especially if they do not want to travel through (or welcome to) League space- and what they want to trade for, they will not want the League to know about.

Since the Jihad, they could have easily traded with the Lyrans with Regulus as a middleman, immensely profiting all 3 sides. They could have easily integrated New St Andrews and the Circinian worlds with the factory too. Better the Pax Mariana then being pirate havens. But they decide to take stupid pills and not continue the nation-building that Julius began way before the Jihad.

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #763 on: 04 February 2021, 11:57:12 »
Really?  Because the 3145 write up has them pushing soft-power and instead of outright control by invasion trying to establish client states (like the Roman Empire) . . . Part of establishing clients is giving them access to military equipment, not as much or as good as yours but you give them a little.  You can try to advance your ability to produce higher tech components without trying to mass produce them.

ARR, you were complaining about their state of industry but the Hegemony was never even at the level the Taurians lowest point.  They were still building up the infrastructure to that point- but it is not just the Taurians, the point of comparison was for all the Periphery realms.  It is not just the final weapon plants- it is the mines to get the ore, the smelters to refine the ore, the facilities to make the fancier alloys needed, electronics factories to build the chips . . . the pyramid of production is thousands of industries and jobs to build those finished products.  In universe, there was a reason the Hegemony was building the CN9-H with primitive engines and armor before they built the CN9-Ar with standard components.

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You are still missing the point of the astrography-  they have no one close that works as a trade partner except the FWL.  No competing power is close enough they can readily play the League off against- unlike the Oberon Confederation which played the Lyrans & Dracs, or the TC kissing up to the Cappies vs FedSuns, MoC playing the FWL & CC.  The Hegemony does not have those types of levers, League policy would IMO make it a given their enemies would be trying to use the Hegemony.

Without going through the League Lyran space is dozens of jumps away, and they have not been in the position to do anything since early 40s.  Trading with Regulus?  Closer but the League is absolutely in the way requiring sensitive cargos (like that military aid you think they might give) having to go a long way around.  Regulus traded with the Lyrans by going through the Republic or MSC . . . and after Hammerfall kicked off that was no longer a option.  Lester Cameron Jones laments his latest trade delegation was in Lyran space right as Hammerfall kicked off- July 3137, and that the had not been able to get much military support in recent years.  For the Taurians to trade with the CapCon, it takes them what . . . 3, 4 jumps and it places them beyond the border systems?  The MoC is IIRC 2 jumps (or was) to get from one nation to the other.  How many jumps is it around old League space or at least through unaligned systems?

Let's see . . . Maximillian-Zorn's Keep-Hardisey's Haven-Diedre's Den-Son Hoa . . . so 4 jumps from the edge of Hegemony space to what was Lyran space before 3140.  But Maximillian is at least another 4 or 5 (depending on path) jumps from what was the core of Hegemony space.

Btw, 3139 was when Ignatius ordered expanded military production . . . which puts him 7 years behind the IS.
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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #764 on: 04 February 2021, 12:22:02 »
The Marians were scripted to lose.


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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #765 on: 04 February 2021, 12:51:26 »
Am I the only person who actually enjoys the Hegemony being behind everyone else tech-wise? Most other Periphery powers are on the same level as the Inner Sphere at this point, or only a little behind. Very little difference between playing them and a Great House at this point, once dice are hitting the table. But playing the Marians with a mix of primitive and intro tech, with a mild seasoning of modern units? That's a gameplay dynamic you won't find anywhere else, except maybe the Goliath Scorpions back when they had the stupid name but fun tech base. Playing the Marian Hegemony is like a Clan vs IS game in the early 3050s, but without being able to lean on the enemy having silly honor rules. That kinda dynamic is fun, and I'm not looking forward to the days when it goes away.
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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #766 on: 04 February 2021, 13:19:10 »
I love primitive and industrial mechs, but I would find it odd fluff wise that a star spanning empire would not at least try to keep pace with their neighbors tech level. The Hansa were able to take huge steps forward in this same time period, the MH  should be similar or a step a head of the Hansa in my opinion.
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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #767 on: 04 February 2021, 13:28:58 »
the canopians are essentially the Maximillian Commemorative Rimword Annex for the Capellans now so they (and the Anduriens) have a distinct advantage over the hegemony in the acquisition and technical assistance department.

I imagine you'd get a more of an eclectic MH feel with some of the smaller periphery states we don't track like the Rim Collection and Fronc Reaches, though the rocket launcher craze of the 3060s gives the Marians a more distinctive feel that teeters closer to pirate tech than most factions flirt with.

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #768 on: 04 February 2021, 14:00:04 »
I love primitive and industrial mechs, but I would find it odd fluff wise that a star spanning empire would not at least try to keep pace with their neighbors tech level. The Hansa were able to take huge steps forward in this same time period, the MH  should be similar or a step a head of the Hansa in my opinion.

Hansa also had longer to develop and more developed worlds IIRC.

Am I the only person who actually enjoys the Hegemony being behind everyone else tech-wise? Most other Periphery powers are on the same level as the Inner Sphere at this point, or only a little behind. Very little difference between playing them and a Great House at this point, once dice are hitting the table. But playing the Marians with a mix of primitive and intro tech, with a mild seasoning of modern units? That's a gameplay dynamic you won't find anywhere else, except maybe the Goliath Scorpions back when they had the stupid name but fun tech base. Playing the Marian Hegemony is like a Clan vs IS game in the early 3050s, but without being able to lean on the enemy having silly honor rules. That kinda dynamic is fun, and I'm not looking forward to the days when it goes away.

It is a different dynamic.  I still think we could see a KS art unit get tossed their way- I am pulling for the Cataphract for thematic reasons . . . and considering what type of RLs to use on it.  I think a lot of the issue is they are just producing the two lights and two meds . . . which is why I hope we hear they get a heavy of some sort.  Honestly, I would like to see them get the flavor of using LFEs and eschewing XLs.  Get a update of their Centurion using a LFE, LBX & RLs, give us a Cataphract using LFE, LBX, HPPC (from CN9-Ar sourcing), and RLS.  Afaik, even the creators of the LFE has not really pushed their deployment.
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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #769 on: 04 February 2021, 15:48:47 »
Hansa also had longer to develop and more developed worlds IIRC.

They actually had to start off their 4th mech line with a primitive Wolverine.  And the other three lines struggle to produce mechs in 3080. The MH was not struggling in their production having 6 mech lines, 4 primitive  / retrotech and the more modern Locust and Commando .
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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #770 on: 04 February 2021, 16:04:20 »
They actually had to start off their 4th mech line with a primitive Wolverine.  And the other three lines struggle to produce mechs in 3080. The MH was not struggling in their production having 6 mech lines, 4 primitive  / retrotech and the more modern Locust and Commando .

The Hansa had more industry but were not introduced to the mech until later AFAIK . . . like, they were just armor, infantry & space forces until the 3050s.  They were also, as of 3142, importing some of the means of production they needed.  The key point is they were a nation and developing longer than the Hegemony- they have the infrastructure producing the thousands of things needed to make a mech.
Colt Ward
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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #771 on: 05 February 2021, 01:28:02 »
Really?  Because the 3145 write up has them pushing soft-power and instead of outright control by invasion trying to establish client states (like the Roman Empire) . . . Part of establishing clients is giving them access to military equipment, not as much or as good as yours but you give them a little.  You can try to advance your ability to produce higher tech components without trying to mass produce them.

They don't need to give them access to military equipment. They could just train the client troops and guarantee their protection. The Marians have been trying to advance and mass produce even during the Jihad.

Quote
ARR, you were complaining about their state of industry but the Hegemony was never even at the level the Taurians lowest point.  They were still building up the infrastructure to that point- but it is not just the Taurians, the point of comparison was for all the Periphery realms.  It is not just the final weapon plants- it is the mines to get the ore, the smelters to refine the ore, the facilities to make the fancier alloys needed, electronics factories to build the chips . . . the pyramid of production is thousands of industries and jobs to build those finished products.  In universe, there was a reason the Hegemony was building the CN9-H with primitive engines and armor before they built the CN9-Ar with standard components.

Oh really? So how does Fronc, Rim Collection and Randis with their Mech production factor into your model? They're even younger, Fronc by 146 years even.

Quote
Stellar Cartography
You are still missing the point of the astrography-  they have no one close that works as a trade partner except the FWL.  No competing power is close enough they can readily play the League off against- unlike the Oberon Confederation which played the Lyrans & Dracs, or the TC kissing up to the Cappies vs FedSuns, MoC playing the FWL & CC.  The Hegemony does not have those types of levers, League policy would IMO make it a given their enemies would be trying to use the Hegemony.

Without going through the League Lyran space is dozens of jumps away, and they have not been in the position to do anything since early 40s.  Trading with Regulus?  Closer but the League is absolutely in the way requiring sensitive cargos (like that military aid you think they might give) having to go a long way around.  Regulus traded with the Lyrans by going through the Republic or MSC . . . and after Hammerfall kicked off that was no longer a option.  Lester Cameron Jones laments his latest trade delegation was in Lyran space right as Hammerfall kicked off- July 3137, and that the had not been able to get much military support in recent years.  For the Taurians to trade with the CapCon, it takes them what . . . 3, 4 jumps and it places them beyond the border systems?  The MoC is IIRC 2 jumps (or was) to get from one nation to the other.  How many jumps is it around old League space or at least through unaligned systems?

Let's see . . . Maximillian-Zorn's Keep-Hardisey's Haven-Diedre's Den-Son Hoa . . . so 4 jumps from the edge of Hegemony space to what was Lyran space before 3140.  But Maximillian is at least another 4 or 5 (depending on path) jumps from what was the core of Hegemony space.

Except that with your astrography a microstate like the Rim Collection is already trading with far-off Canopus before the Jihad in HB:MPS.

Quote
Btw, 3139 was when Ignatius ordered expanded military production . . . which puts him 7 years behind the IS.

There are a variety of ways to interpret "ordered expanded military production". The Marians could have already been producing on militarized levels before the production expansion order i.e. upping from 12 Testudos a month to 24 Testudos a month. The point was the Legions could have started conquering well before the neoFWL formed, when all those non-affiliates were easy pickings. Besides, FM3145 is infamous for a dearth of information in certain sections and the Republic would have highly limited intelligence on a far-off state like the Hegemony and even if they devote intelligence efforts in the Periphery it would be on Canopus, Taurus and the Ravens.

There are 50 years from 3085 till 3135. Cassius has demonstrated a will to develop native military production. Only the Republic fully bought into their MMRP. No one in the Hegemony, Taurus or Canopus gave it a second glance.


ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #772 on: 05 February 2021, 01:29:14 »
Glad you figured out how writing works.

Glad you took a line out of context and had fun with it.

Kit deSummersville

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #773 on: 05 February 2021, 09:08:55 »
Glad you took a line out of context and had fun with it.

Please elaborate then, because all I get from your writing is "the writers made us lose".
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truetanker

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #774 on: 05 February 2021, 09:39:37 »
I think ArkRoyalRavager and Kit deSummersville need to chill a bit.

I hate to have this thread locked down because of whatever makes it happen comes true.

Please, PM any negative thoughts, don't spread it like butter. If you wanted preserves, it should have been private.

Heating up escalates to banning.

Now if you think Marian Hegemony is done wrong, choose to leave it alone. Things get retcon'd daily or changed in a way to operate. Hell, live in 3040 era if you like, or just ignore canon all together. But please, no negatives.

Thank you.

( I to am looking for some measure to one of my favorite units, but arguing against it does not help. Period! )

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Colt Ward

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #775 on: 05 February 2021, 11:54:29 »
They don't need to give them access to military equipment. They could just train the client troops and guarantee their protection. The Marians have been trying to advance and mass produce even during the Jihad.

Which is not how client states work . . . you give them your second rate military gear to foster a dependency on you for their protection.  You train their military leaders to influence their thinking, along with sending in advisors and training missions to make them align closer to your standards and be friendly.  So, no if the the Marians produced a CN9-H2 or something that upgraded their old Hs closer to something like the CN10-B in loadouts they would sell/transfer their more marginal CN9-Hs to the client states.  The client gets some adequate defense forces, they are dependent on the Hegemony for replacement parts and efficient training, and the Legions would still be able to roll over that client if it came down to it in the future.

Fronc is made up of old Capellan, Taurian and Magistry settled worlds.  The Star League had bases & settlements there since the Reunification War, and we have indications there were states their previously besides being the center of trade routes between the TC/FS/CC/MoC.  In fact, they refurbished a old Star League (or Star League era) facility on Detroit but took investment from nearby states IIRC.  Rim Collection was producing weapons only until 'recently' when IIRC they started producing a local primitive mech at a single facility.  Randis?  Has a single facility producing a primitive mech but they got the benefit of a influx of Jag refugees.

None of which stack up to the Hegemony producing a handful of mechs along with vehicles and a pair of BA.  Heck, the ONLY other Periphery power that builds two different battle armor (and they are the same class!) is the Canopians, and THEY got to that point by CapCon assistance.

The Rim Collection trading with the Magistry of Canopus for that single reference is indicative of nothing.  I had a package shipped to me from China for something I ordered last year.  I am involved in trade with China . . . but I do not compare with Walmart, even if we both trade with China.  I am not claiming the Hegemony is not trading with the Dracs or even civilian side of the Alliance for a distant trade route (in fact, I point to the equipment buying missions), but you cannot build a economy on such infrequent or long distance trade.  If they have jumpships engaged in that trade it means the ship is spending years going to that point and coming back . . . during that time it is not plying local trade routes.  Instead of enriching local economies and worlds, instead your docking collars would be used to move DS in the League, Republic and Combine to use the closer example.  Additionally, part of the reason the Rim Collection could have been trading with the Canopians could simply be b/c they wanted/needed medical advancements they could by there as part of Emma Centrella's periphery uplifting efforts that they could not get from Lyran space.

The referenced section of 'expanded production' was in relation to the establishment of a BA production facility on Illyria- which just happens to now be giving Marauder or Ravage BA to Tamarind I guess, it might also be the MH's only BA facility- but was in response to the League's reformation.  Everyone bought into Stone's peace initiatives to one level or another, the Marians might have barely followed along like the Clans (no matter what, a more militarized society) rather than buying in wholesale like the FedSuns.  You may not like it, but it was the state of the setting going into 3132- so at best they might have expanded the production capability since 3070s but not actually run the facilities at full speed except when they were replacing their losses.  They were able to build new facilities to replace the destroyed ones on Perdition in 3099 on Addhara.  FM3145 actually claims the MH has not seen economic & military growth after the settlement of the Lothian question that has not been experienced since the nation's founding.

Finally, you seem to be implying the Hegemony was under a single leader with a single vision- they were not.  Julius, Cassius (d 3106), Lucian (d 3128)and Ignatius.  The FM specifically notes that Ignatius has had less aggressive policies against un-aligned neighboring systems.  Besides having to rebuild the I Legion twice in roughly 20 years, the other Legios were also engaged in widespread fighting.  FM3145 says that settling with Lothians have only just begun to recover from the constant strain.
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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #776 on: 05 February 2021, 14:11:18 »
Curious...

If Marian HMI produces the Shilone, which variant would you produce more of? Standard  SL-17 or the AC/2 popper, SL-17AC?

Cause everything else is way to high in tech... maybe the SL-17R, but that's it.

TT


I would love to know, but they did not say anything about the Hegemonic Shilones beyond what was published I believe in Masters and Minions Starcorps Dossiers

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #777 on: 05 February 2021, 14:14:35 »
There may not be enough proof for you, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.  As discussed earlier the MH recently has not got much stage time . I'd love to get an update for the periphery soon.

It is however logical to assume the MH has continued its upgrade program between the 3080 write up to what little we have in 3145. We have seen smaller more isolated powers do it (Randis, the Hansa, etc) . I think you would find similar problem finding info that the MH hasn't upgraded.

We just need more information.


Totally Saint, they have even received pilots and information about versions of very small factions like the Rim Territories or the nonexistent until the HBS game, the Aurigan Coalition, but nothing at all about hegemony, at least it is an extremely strange circumstance

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #778 on: 05 February 2021, 14:30:29 »
No, you have the information- 3099 new mech & vehicle lines on Addhara to replace what was destroyed on Perdition and Illyria getting a 'first' of some sort to produce BA in 3139.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Adacas

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #779 on: 05 February 2021, 14:38:45 »
Which is not how client states work . . . you give them your second rate military gear to foster a dependency on you for their protection.  You train their military leaders to influence their thinking, along with sending in advisors and training missions to make them align closer to your standards and be friendly.  So, no if the the Marians produced a CN9-H2 or something that upgraded their old Hs closer to something like the CN10-B in loadouts they would sell/transfer their more marginal CN9-Hs to the client states.  The client gets some adequate defense forces, they are dependent on the Hegemony for replacement parts and efficient training, and the Legions would still be able to roll over that client if it came down to it in the future.

Fronc is made up of old Capellan, Taurian and Magistry settled worlds.  The Star League had bases & settlements there since the Reunification War, and we have indications there were states their previously besides being the center of trade routes between the TC/FS/CC/MoC.  In fact, they refurbished a old Star League (or Star League era) facility on Detroit but took investment from nearby states IIRC.  Rim Collection was producing weapons only until 'recently' when IIRC they started producing a local primitive mech at a single facility.  Randis?  Has a single facility producing a primitive mech but they got the benefit of a influx of Jag refugees.

None of which stack up to the Hegemony producing a handful of mechs along with vehicles and a pair of BA.  Heck, the ONLY other Periphery power that builds two different battle armor (and they are the same class!) is the Canopians, and THEY got to that point by CapCon assistance.

The Rim Collection trading with the Magistry of Canopus for that single reference is indicative of nothing.  I had a package shipped to me from China for something I ordered last year.  I am involved in trade with China . . . but I do not compare with Walmart, even if we both trade with China.  I am not claiming the Hegemony is not trading with the Dracs or even civilian side of the Alliance for a distant trade route (in fact, I point to the equipment buying missions), but you cannot build a economy on such infrequent or long distance trade.  If they have jumpships engaged in that trade it means the ship is spending years going to that point and coming back . . . during that time it is not plying local trade routes.  Instead of enriching local economies and worlds, instead your docking collars would be used to move DS in the League, Republic and Combine to use the closer example.  Additionally, part of the reason the Rim Collection could have been trading with the Canopians could simply be b/c they wanted/needed medical advancements they could by there as part of Emma Centrella's periphery uplifting efforts that they could not get from Lyran space.

The referenced section of 'expanded production' was in relation to the establishment of a BA production facility on Illyria- which just happens to now be giving Marauder or Ravage BA to Tamarind I guess, it might also be the MH's only BA facility- but was in response to the League's reformation.  Everyone bought into Stone's peace initiatives to one level or another, the Marians might have barely followed along like the Clans (no matter what, a more militarized society) rather than buying in wholesale like the FedSuns.  You may not like it, but it was the state of the setting going into 3132- so at best they might have expanded the production capability since 3070s but not actually run the facilities at full speed except when they were replacing their losses.  They were able to build new facilities to replace the destroyed ones on Perdition in 3099 on Addhara.  FM3145 actually claims the MH has not seen economic & military growth after the settlement of the Lothian question that has not been experienced since the nation's founding.

Finally, you seem to be implying the Hegemony was under a single leader with a single vision- they were not.  Julius, Cassius (d 3106), Lucian (d 3128)and Ignatius.  The FM specifically notes that Ignatius has had less aggressive policies against un-aligned neighboring systems.  Besides having to rebuild the I Legion twice in roughly 20 years, the other Legios were also engaged in widespread fighting.  FM3145 says that settling with Lothians have only just begun to recover from the constant strain.


But in Era Report 3145 is where Colt Ward says that Ignatius had started a diplomatic task of Client State with a series of ex-Marik systems (Lathi, San Nicolas and Sierra) and some of Circinus (Zorn's Keep) and the independent Paulinus, , giving discounts to go to study at Alphard to civilian and military personnel, so a better vision and even pro-Marian factions in those worlds surely exist.

The BA Factory of Horatius is still there according to TRO 3145 Mercenaries where the Marauder BA appears which clearly says that it is built there in Horatius and Pinard in Taurus, the BA Factory of Illyria may be the first Hegemonic BA Factory built in 0, the previous one was built on a WoB Ba Facility that they never finished putting into operation, this is in the Ravager Fluff

The ATC Factory in Addhara is a mystery, assuming that they build what they destroyed in Perdition, they surely build the Fulcrum, in addition to that the ATC bought the rights to the CPP Carrier and the Goblin that we know are built in the Factory that It was an extension of the Addhara in Leximon (another factory built to apparently get lost)

As for moderately modern mechs, the Marian Hegemony is the only state that after building a number of 4/5 Primitive Mech and 2 "Modern" in 3080, it happened to build in 3145 the same "modern" mechs but in another factory and a Retrotech mech. like the Centurion H (which in fact was already built in 3077 more or less)

As for the Troops, they were rebuilt according to Field Manual 3145, and I quote they were the most veteran troops of the Periphery for their continuous fight against Pirates, it is more if in Shattered Fortress contradicting what was said in the Report / Field Manual 3145 Era, the V Legio to put it illogically in a Front zone ..., what can I tell you, the mechs to conform it must have come from somewhere Factories / Refit / Purchases or a compendium of the three options, and I don't think they have stopped sending mechs to the other 5 more veteran Legio to supply the new Green quality or to supply mechs to their mercs units, which from what they say in Shattered Fortress of being a Veteran unit at 100/120% capacity, the Dragonslayers now have 35% capacity, at least a strange question and which nothing talks about anywhere

 

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