How will the Clans shape Terra and their Star League?

[tassa_kay]

Well there is Tara Jadefalcon though how much influence she can exert is another question

Tara should've just killed Alaric and damn the consequences. The Highlanders would've gladly sold themselves to keep that vomit-inducing plot development from happening.

[VanVelding]

We will never get there if he does not surprise us all and adapt.

Or that other thing. Y'know: die.

[Metallgewitter]

Tara should've just killed Alaric and damn the consequences. The Highlanders would've gladly sold themselves to keep that vomit-inducing plot development from happening.

Goes on the list who Tara should have killed. Heck she blasted Malvina with a headshot on Skye all those years ago and Malvina survived. Just how many headshots can a Mechpilot survive? Even Victor and Phelan only got one each, Malvina survived what 3 or 4? Maybe even more

[Dragon Cat]

Someone else mentioned it but I can't see it going any other way

Clan stuff is ruled by the ilClan, Terra stuff dealt with by Terra

Anything that benefits the ilClans military will be Wolf controlled the rest I think will be left like nothing has changed

If there's any uprising it'll dealt with harshly, Alaric proved during the invasion he wouldn't put up with an insurgency (I believe he raised a town for such an act). Take that apply it to the system it'll be martial law in ilClan areas the rest will be Terra

Beyond Terra will be more interesting I think the only way the ilClan flourishes is if it reunites with the Empire. Alaric has proven he's willing to bend and break rules to keep his enemies off balance so I wouldn't even put it past him to sneak supplied to the Federated Suns or Free Worlds League to cause problems for the Capellans just like he eliminated the thread of the Rasalhague Dominion by causing Internal strife

[tassa_kay]

just like he eliminated the thread of the Rasalhague Dominion by causing Internal strife

We don't know that Alaric even intended for what happened in the Dominion to happen.

[Metallgewitter]

If there's any uprising it'll dealt with harshly, Alaric proved during the invasion he wouldn't put up with an insurgency (I believe he raised a town for such an act). Take that apply it to the system it'll be martial law in ilClan areas the rest will be Terra

That begs the question how often can he use this tactic before it gets overused? At one point people snap. Or like the original Star League resistance that it gets celebrated as "martyrs for the cause". Nothing makes a bad PR then a burning city with dead children in the news reports or underground press. And ebven his warriors might take offense getting labeled as war criminals. The Jaguars can tell him a thing or two about going too far. Plus what if it happens in the metropolis of Terra? Will he burn down a city that houses several millions to make an example? Then good luck keeping the neighbouring factory running at full speed

[Church14]

Beyond Terra will be more interesting I think the only way the ilClan flourishes is if it reunites with the Empire.

I’m not sure the Empire will welcome him even if it’s still standing when he tries. That said, we know Terra and the surrounding systems aren’t enough. He needs Allies and I think/hope it’ll come from other clans once Wolves get humbled.

Alaric has proven he's willing to bend and break rules to keep his enemies off balance so I wouldn't even put it past him to sneak supplied to the Federated Suns or Free Worlds League to cause problems for the Capellans

I know what you meant, but neither of these help Alaric. FedSuns would use them on the Ravens and FWL would use them on the Empire.

just like he eliminated the thread of the Rasalhague Dominion by causing Internal strife

Read the relevant scenes. I’m firmly convinced Alaric had zero idea that was going to happen. His demand - a laughably crazy one if he actually understood RasDom culture - cost him a damn strong ally.

[VensersRevenge]

I know what you meant, but neither of these help Alaric. FedSuns would use them on the Ravens and FWL would use them on the Empire.

Depends on who in the Suns Alaric supplies. There should be a lot of people in the Capellan March who want revenge, and Chesterton in particular is a long time world under occupation.

[Dragon Cat]

We don't know that Alaric even intended for what happened in the Dominion to happen.

It was certainly the impression I took from the scene he saw them as a powerful ally or thorn he gave them a choice to join his star league, they voted then he moved the goal posts by saying it had to be a decision the entire Dominion agreed on.

Clan rule 101 rule from the top, the Dominion voted he didn't like that he wanted one voice from the Dominion not a majority vote that might change. Best way to eliminate that chance of change make them sort it out.

I took that whole sequence of events as Alaric seeing a potential threat and exploiting a weakness in the way a Clanner (or his mother would by Targeting the foundation of the Dominion their choice to vote)

That begs the question how often can he use this tactic before it gets overused? At one point people snap. Or like the original Star League resistance that it gets celebrated as "martyrs for the cause". Nothing makes a bad PR then a burning city with dead children in the news reports or underground press. And ebven his warriors might take offense getting labeled as war criminals. The Jaguars can tell him a thing or two about going too far. Plus what if it happens in the metropolis of Terra? Will he burn down a city that houses several millions to make an example? Then good luck keeping the neighbouring factory running at full speed

The thing is I don't think he'll have to the tactic was used during the invasion because the Wolves had to focus on conquest and show they'd be willing to. They were seen as the "good" Clan over the insane Falcons Alaric had to prove he was willing and capable of doing it.

Terra has had 5 owners the Camerons, ComStar, Word of Blake, Republic of the Sphere and now the Wolves each time its been the focal point of that factions desires they are in exactly the same position with the ilClan.

If anything I can see Terra fully supporting the idea that Clan Wolf want to make them the capital or a new Star League. From the short story in Sharpnel you could see life was going on after the invasion like the saying in Fallout "Terra never changes"

[tassa_kay]

It was certainly the impression I took from the scene he saw them as a powerful ally or thorn he gave them a choice to join his star league, they voted then he moved the goal posts by saying it had to be a decision the entire Dominion agreed on.

Clan rule 101 rule from the top, the Dominion voted he didn't like that he wanted one voice from the Dominion not a majority vote that might change. Best way to eliminate that chance of change make them sort it out.

I took that whole sequence of events as Alaric seeing a potential threat and exploiting a weakness in the way a Clanner (or his mother would by Targeting the foundation of the Dominion their choice to vote)

I understand why someone would draw that conclusion, but there's simply nothing in print that says or even implies that this was Alaric's mindset during all of this. Church was right: read the scene. Alaric seemed genuinely baffled by the RasDom's way of doing things, but still went along with it. And there was no indication later that he rejected them to stir up internal dissent; simply a Typical Clanner demanding better results from people he thinks are beneath him.

[Dragon Cat]

I’m not sure the Empire will welcome him even if it’s still standing when he tries. That said, we know Terra and the surrounding systems aren’t enough. He needs Allies and I think/hope it’ll come from other clans once Wolves get humbled.

The Empire has a large swath of worlds I think it'll still be standing and if it isn't then the survivors retreat to Terra and Alaric wins by default.  That is if he wants them I guess the silence from Terra to the Wolves is weird. Maybe he sees the warriors like the Dragoons not worthy of his ilClan and he wants to build up all over again with his "Terran" Wolves the core like the old Royal forces of the first SLDF Alaric likes symbolism much like his mother

Depends on who in the Suns Alaric supplies. There should be a lot of people in the Capellan March who want revenge, and Chesterton in particular is a long time world under occupation.

How I see it as well he doesn't even have to get his own hands dirty he can use the Foxes who it appears are willing to serve the ilClan

[Dragon Cat]

I understand why someone would draw that conclusion, but there's simply nothing in print that says or even implies that this was Alaric's mindset during all of this. Church was right: read the scene. Alaric seemed genuinely baffled by the RasDom's way of doing things, but still went along with it. And there was no indication later that he rejected them to stir up internal dissent; simply a Typical Clanner demanding better results from people he thinks are beneath him.

I guess we'll find out exactly what he's thinking when the next book comes out

[Church14]

The Empire has a large swath of worlds I think it'll still be standing and if it isn't then the survivors retreat to Terra and Alaric wins by default.  That is if he wants them I guess the silence from Terra to the Wolves is weird. Maybe he sees the warriors like the Dragoons not worthy of his ilClan and he wants to build up all over again with his "Terran" Wolves the core like the old Royal forces of the first SLDF Alaric likes symbolism much like his mother

GenCon Diorama looks like Capellans already cut Alaric off before the dust settled on Terra. To be fair, this doesn’t mean Alaric can’t break the door open, but it has been shut on him at least once now.

Add in then that the FWL accidentally took 20% of the Empire and is now going to start trying.

Add in even one Lyran general bucking Trillian and saying it’s go time. There are no units of note defending the northern half of the Empire. A single RCT could conquer dozens of systems at breakneck speed.

Then we have the bare ten clusters of the Empire, of which several are already mangled, two are bogged down on New Olympia. And one is stranded on Simpson Desert.

The only thing the Empire has going for it is the Spina Khanate that could spend about five clusters worth of troops to help defend the Empire, but for what? Othar traded away his most valuable assets already to buy time. There’s also the point that the protectorate (Spirit Cats) have every reason to side with FWL and very little beyond ideology to side with the Empire. Ideology is cold comfort if your actions result in the destruction of your nation.

Now, the meta point: I think CGL is going to be cautious about wiping a faction after the unbridled tire fire of the end of the RotS. But eliminating Alaric’s or Othar’s wolves (just one) still leaves Wolves alive and finally creates a “found out” stage of wolves taking such stupid risks.



All that said, I think the empire will survive as a shadow of its former self and probably will be hostile to Alaric. They know he freely abandoned them and put them at huge risk for Alaric’s personal gain.

[Natasha Kerensky]

To the OP regarding Terra, the ilClan will have little to no impact on Terra if history is any guide.  The changeovers from Hegemony to ComStar, from ComStar to Blakists, and from Blakists to Republic had no appreciable impact on Terra’s population, governance, society, etc. that I’m aware of.  The game universe focuses on the thousands of people that fight with mechs, not on the trillions of sheeple that don’t seem to care what the thousands of mech jocks are doing unless and until the plot demands that there be a populist rebellion or guerrilla movement agains the people with the mechs.

The governance structure of the resurrected Star League, however, will have to be detailed at some point, and it’s very murky what that looks like with Clanners running the show.

[Minemech]

 Anytime I ponder on this scenario, I find that while there is an ancient tradition of realpolitik where you allow an enemy to survive lest you lack a potential ally one day, Clan Wolf is difficult to fit within this profile. This may sound odd as the Huns did survive this way, but contrary to popular understanding, the Huns were tracked and easily contained by the time this was employed upon them. Leaders like Aetius and the Augustus Zeno made mincemeat of them in actual battles (They were outright feared by the Huns). They moved from being able to control enemy movements to being under the control of the Romans in good situations and outright absorbed by others in bad ones. A remnant situation for Clan Wolf would be a struggle at best, but they have made it through struggles before.

[Minemech]

PS Anyone thinking of bringing up the northern Italian campaign, I brought this example for a reason, depth. The Huns were stuck in a situation where the western Roman Empire could absorb their damage, cut them off, and conquer their home. They had to flee and leave the Roman capital of Ravenna untouched. Successor States, like the Roman Empire at one time, have depth. Tragically for the western Empire, Majorian's attempts to regain Africa were sabotaged, making the empire's ultimate defense impossible.

[Metallgewitter]

I probably think a bit differently because the Clans are a different culture. Unlike the previous "owners" the Clans have usually a very strict role definiton of it's civilian population. Making Terra the center of a new Star League (however that is going to happen) and giving Terrans a huge say might be the best outcome to appease them. But enforcing a caste society with very limited mobility (or even scientist determined marriages) would most likely not be possible considering Terra's size. The others basically used bread and circus to keep the population compliant and Alaric will have to use the same method. Plus at this point there are still some Republic big shots at large and who knows what they are up to (well Tucker is playing the Twitter troll but what about the rest?)

[tassa_kay]

Granted that it was the Falcons doing it, but during the battle, we did see Clan troops taking over a broadcast station on Terra while they were on the air.

[Church14]

Yeah. Walked in and murdered the broadcasters on air IIRC. Not exactly helping Alaric shake off the bad reputation.

Yes, those were Falcons. But a lot of the sphere is probably going to think of the Terran Falcons as Alaric’s pets and functionally an oddly painted clan wolf unit for a long time.

[Metallgewitter]

Considering how Alaric invited the Falcons to Terra he is more or less responsible for it. And as long as the underground news blanket Terra's air waves it is a thorn in his side.
Though I expect his watch to catch the perpetrator soon (most likely in IKEO).

[Blkbr2020]

Once the Wolves moved from the OZ to establish the Empire they took a much more classic Clan Wolf approach while under Alaric as compared to how Vlad ran things in the OZ.

Clan Wolf integrated factories, brought on a LOT of local units building up the touman leading up to the invasion of Terra etc.

It would seem logical to assume that this approach would be kept for Terra as well. Power corrupts so who knows what Alaric will do with his ego moving forward.......but Stone hit pretty close to home with Alaric at the end. My money would be on Alaric taking a moderate approach to integrating territory......at least until their power base is more secured.

[Metallgewitter]

Once the Wolves moved from the OZ to establish the Empire they took a much more classic Clan Wolf approach while under Alaric as compared to how Vlad ran things in the OZ.

Clan Wolf integrated factories, brought on a LOT of local units building up the touman leading up to the invasion of Terra etc.

It would seem logical to assume that this approach would be kept for Terra as well. Power corrupts so who knows what Alaric will do with his ego moving forward.......but Stone hit pretty close to home with Alaric at the end. My money would be on Alaric taking a moderate approach to integrating territory......at least until their power base is more secured.

The thing is though that his Empire is breaking like a house of cards. Yes his garrisons are thin but this just encouraged more of former Leaguers to go full on "FREEDOM!" turning against their Wolf overlords. But yes it would be the only approach left since his own military is seriously depleted and with most available sibkos getting harvested by the Dragoons there is no other option. The Wolf clan will turn IS in the long turn

[Geg]

The ilClan has forces outside the wall on at least two planets 18 months after the fall of the Republic, with one of them is just sitting garrisoning Caph.   Whatever settlement Clan Wolf and the Terrans arrived at, they came to it fairly quickly.   Which for me, reads like the Wolves ruling with a light touch, and not going full Way of the Clans on Terra.

[Blkbr2020]

The thing is though that his Empire is breaking like a house of cards. Yes his garrisons are thin but this just encouraged more of former Leaguers to go full on "FREEDOM!" turning against their Wolf overlords. But yes it would be the only approach left since his opwn military is seriouzsly depelted and with most available sibkos getting harvested by the Dragoons there is no other option. The Wolf clan will turn IS in the long turn

Yes the Empire is in rough shape. I was only addressing the way in which Alaric would approach governing Terra / expanding the Star League moving forward and using his past methods in the Empire as a frame of reference.

Different authors have represented his personality in various ways for better or worse. But they all kept him (for the most part) pragmatic and with Ulric levels of planning things out at times. Once the "oh crap what do I do now that I actually WON" wears off I'm sure he will have a plan in place for next steps. Whether it works or not is another thing.

[rebs]

It's also proven that Alaric can check his ego enough to surround himself with talented people and actually listen to them.  That will mean a lot for the coming future as well.

[Church14]

Once the Wolves moved from the OZ to establish the Empire they took a much more classic Clan Wolf approach while under Alaric as compared to how Vlad ran things in the OZ.

Clan Wolf integrated factories, brought on a LOT of local units building up the touman leading up to the invasion of Terra etc.

It would seem logical to assume that this approach would be kept for Terra as well. Power corrupts so who knows what Alaric will do with his ego moving forward.......but Stone hit pretty close to home with Alaric at the end. My money would be on Alaric taking a moderate approach to integrating territory......at least until their power base is more secured.

The “moderate” approach in the Empire was still heavy fisted. Everything was still prioritizing military buildup over all other things. Including basic infrastructure in some cases. We know some were joining the touman because it was basically that or suffer.

I do think eventually wolves or whoever is the final ilclan will mellow in their method of rule, but I think Alaric is going to open hard with his clanniest of clan governments to ever govern plans. AQoS shows he really doesn’t get listening to civilians to rule. That’s a huge red flag.

[Church14]

The ilClan has forces outside the wall on at least two planets 18 months after the fall of the Republic, with one of them is just sitting garrisoning Caph.   Whatever settlement Clan Wolf and the Terrans arrived at, they came to it fairly quickly.   Which for me, reads like the Wolves ruling with a light touch, and not going full Way of the Clans on Terra.

We don’t actually know that. We know controls about of 7 planets around Terra by June 3152. Empire have two, Bears have two, and DC has three. Caph had falcons on it in December. 3151 and not many. Also consider that most movement in the sourcebooks has been Jan to June 3152.

[Minemech]

 Alaric revolutionized Clan understanding by abandoning the need for sovereign territory to accomplish his long-term objective of taking Terra. In that light, the Empire was a pseudo state.

[Metallgewitter]

A pseudo state he needs because who is gonna supply Terra's hunger for raw materials? Yes there is the Belt and maybe even Deep Sea mining but those are costly. He is probably making himself totally deependend on the Foxes in that regard. And if the Capellans have really< cut of the Empire's stretch to Terra his supply lines have become quiet fragile should the Capellans decide to attack any Clanner they come across

[Geg]

We don’t actually know that. We know controls about of 7 planets around Terra by June 3152. Empire have two, Bears have two, and DC has three. Caph had falcons on it in December. 3151 and not many. Also consider that most movement in the sourcebooks has been Jan to June 3152.

The diorama at Gencon had a mixed ilClan force on New Earth in December 3152.
The AlphaStrike Boxset had Jade Falcon on Caph also in December 3152.

Both of these can safely be assumed to represent forces attacking outward from Terra, rather than captured prior to 3151.  The December 3152 is an interesting date because it's a full 6 months past the time horizon of the 3 ilClan sourcebooks.