So: Infantry

[Fireangel]

Never mind.  You know what Herb answered my question and that's how I'm going to play it. 

That's what Herb's Standard Answer #1 is for.

Whatever crap you guys want to make up, feel free.  I'm out.       

Not making up. Point out where in the rules it is optional to give foot, jump or motorized infantry in generic armour kits an A-M skill number or not.

[Sandslice]

Not making up. Point out where in the rules it is optional to give foot, jump or motorized infantry in generic armour kits an A-M skill number or not.

He's interpreting TM p309 (Calculate Anti-BattleMech Battle Rating) as the rule that allows it.
"If the unit can perform leg or swarm attacks, add the BV [of the weapons again.]"  He believes that he can choose to not add this BV during BV calc, thus reverse-designing "cannot perform AM attacks" into the platoon.

[Fireangel]

He's interpreting TM p309 (Calculate Anti-BattleMech Battle Rating) as the rule that allows it.
"If the unit can perform leg or swarm attacks, add the BV [of the weapons again.]"  He believes that he can choose to not add this BV during BV calc, thus reverse-designing "cannot perform AM attacks" into the platoon.

The problem is that the rule does not specify how to determine if the platoon can or cannot perform A-M attacks; default is right in the book: foot, motorized and jump platoons can, while mechanized platoons can't.

Tac Ops introduces armour kits that prevent foot, motorized of jump infantry from making A-M attacks.

Outside of this, there is no step to determine is a PBI unit can or cannot do A-M attacks.

You're right; he's reverse engineering the rule.


Let's see if putting it this way makes more sense to others:

A) if you are taller than 5'8" you get a bowl.
b) if you are 5'8" or shorter you don't get a bowl.
c) those who get a bowl get to choose the bowl's size, between 1 (smallest) and 9 (biggest)
d) those who have a bowl MUST get water for the bowl - they also get to drink from the bowl whenever they please.
e) those without a bowl cannot get water at all and can never drink water "outside".

Note that if you are taller than 5'8" you get a bowl. Period. You can choose the smallest size and thus carry the lightest load of water, to the point where drinking from the bowl is next to pointless. There is simply no mechanism or rule that states that you cannot take a bowl.

You cannot be 5'8" or taller, choose to not get the water and then claim to not have a bowl; getting or not getting the water is dependent on having a bowl (which is dependent on height); not the other way around.

Of course, you could get to wear a raincoat, in which case you have to turn in your bowl as an explicit exception to the height requirement.


I'd posit that Herb did not, in fact, answer the question: he stated, essentially, that having a bowl or not is dependent on getting the water.

Jim's question was: "When constructing a foot infantry platoon is it required that they be designated as anti-Battlemech infantry (incurring the extra BV cost as outlined on page 309) or can I declare that they are incapable of making a anti-Battlemech attack."

Bare bones: "Does a 5'9" guy HAVE to get a bowl? or can he CHOOSE to not take a bowl." (A y/n question)

Herb's answer was: "If you don't pay the cost for anti-Mech capability, then they are incapable of anti-Mech attacks."

Bare bones: "If you don't get water in your bowl, you don't get to drink water "outside". (Not a y/n answer AND not even addressing the question posed)

[Goose]

While we're vaugly near the subject  :P Anyone ever hear anything about infantry needing ECM-Stealth suits to evade Active Probes?

I'd always thought you just had to be infantry to do that, but it's my role in this forum to be off my rocker, so I ask …

[Sandslice]

While we're vaugly near the subject  :P Anyone ever hear anything about infantry needing ECM-Stealth suits to evade Active Probes?

I'd always thought you just had to be infantry to do that, but it's my role in this forum to be off my rocker, so I ask …

A Beagle (or Clan Standard, or Light, or Watchdog) cannot detect infantry at all.  A Bloodhound can detect infantry unless they have ECM / stealth suits.

[Alexander Knight]

Same way RS: 3085 does it: Write it down in the notes. The Davion Firefighter platoon specifically notes that it cannot perform swarming or anti-'mech attacks. Not all the mechinf in that book are so marked oddly enough, though that's probably more of an errata thing.

Firefighters are Motorized and should in theory be able to conduct A-M attacks.  Their equipment prohibits that, so they get a note.  No mechanized unit can conduct A-M attacks regardless of their equipment, so no special notes were needed.

[Daemion]

Y'know, I think there's more to making an AM attack than just having the training. I think it also has to do with outfitting the platoon for the role.

To scale a 'Mech, you probably have to have specially designed rappelling or grappling gear so that an individual can stick to the mech and get up a ways while a Mech is moving.

We are talking walking rates of 2 or more steps a second, and running rates 3 or more a second. Yeah. Good luck with just a rope.

And, you have to have enough to outfit the entire platoon.

So, a bare bones infantry platoon that don't have the gear to pull it off would be quite incapable of the task.

Its not a matter of having other gear which hampers you. Its simply not having the gear to make even an untrained attempt possible.

That's my interpretation.

So, yeah, I can see being able to pay for foot platoons that literally can't make an AM attack.

[Fireangel]

Y'know, I think there's more to making an AM attack than just having the training. I think it also has to do with outfitting the platoon for the role.

To scale a 'Mech, you probably have to have specially designed rappelling or grappling gear so that an individual can stick to the mech and get up a ways while a Mech is moving.

We are talking walking rates of 2 or more steps a second, and running rates 3 or more a second. Yeah. Good luck with just a rope.

And, you have to have enough to outfit the entire platoon.

So, a bare bones infantry platoon that don't have the gear to pull it off would be quite incapable of the task.

Its not a matter of having other gear which hampers you. Its simply not having the gear to make even an untrained attempt possible.

That's my interpretation.

So, yeah, I can see being able to pay for foot platoons that literally can't make an AM attack.

I don't agree; a plain-vanilla foot platoon could fill a couple of satchels (map cases are good) with grenades and/or other explosives (homemade/improvised of that "dropped out the back of a supply truck), use their standard-issue ropes and grapples and BIG BRASS ONES to attack a 'mech when their A-M skill is 7+ their chances of success are severely curtailed, but this is reflected by their equipment and TN#.

FWIW, I vastly prefer kneecapping to swarming when doing A-M attacks; under most circumstances, PBI swarming is a suicide attack.

[truetanker]

Grapple Rods and Gripper Gloves... that's what they use for A-M attacks. 2750 TRO has the details...

TT

[Fireangel]

Grapple Rods and Gripper Gloves... that's what they use for A-M attacks. 2750 TRO has the details...

TT

That's a bit on the high-tech end.

I kinda favour dipping poor Heishi Koujii Buford in tar, handing him a satchel of grenades and telling him to stand on the see-saw while the rest of his squad mates launch him towards the 'mech...  #P

[Shijima_3085]

That's a bit on the high-tech end.

I kinda favour dipping poor Heishi Koujii Buford in tar, handing him a satchel of grenades and telling him to stand on the see-saw while the rest of his squad mates launch him towards the 'mech...  #P

 ;D

[StuartYee]

Not all roles in the battlefield revolve around delivering damage.

Spotting - artillery and indirect fire just need eyeballs on the ground with LOS.
Rescue / capture - so your or your opponent's 'mechjock does not feel lonely after ejecting.
Combat Engineers - all types can be game-changers if used correctly.
Building Flushing - take care of enemy infantry without leveling the building.
Crowd Control - 'mechs suck at this.

In the old Double-Blind rules from the old Tactical Handbook, and later Maximum Tech, infantry are especially effective at recon since they have a 360 degree field of vision for spotting enemy units.