BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Player Boards => BattleTech Roleplaying => MechWarrior Hall => Topic started by: ArcaneRaven on 28 July 2012, 07:40:37
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I extend a warm welcome to all members of the Free Worlds League and all our honoured guests!
Please make yourself comfortable and don't be shy to order what you like. Our bar wants for nothing and our valets will be pleased to serve you at once.
Just one serious moment, dear Ladies and Gentlemen: I raise my glas in remembrance of one of us who had to die before his time. Unfortunately, I did not had the pleasure to meet him outside the boards, but I really appreciated not just his amicable personality but his dedication for the game and his fellow fans as well. May he thrive, wherever he may be now. And may he be in good company. A toast to Albatross!
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Vash The Stampede hailing from Steiner space.
*orders fusionaire and toasts Albatross and Extreme*
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Welcome Vash!
*sees to that Vash is getting his drink*
I toast to Extreme as well. *raises his glas again*
I view it as good omen that the first visitor is a Lyran. :) Any favourite part of the LC / LA?
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From the Amur sprawl here for a nice drink. A toast to the fallen. My they never be forgotten.
Orders stinger.
Keep em comming
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Bartender, give me something strong...I raise my glass to Albatross.
To all fans of the Free Worlds League, past, present and future.
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From the Amur sprawl here for a nice drink. A toast to the fallen. My they never be forgotten.
Orders stinger.
Keep em comming
A Stinger for the gentleman from Oriente. Coming up!
[cheers]
Hope, you're well. Haven't seen you for a while.
Bartender, give me something strong...I raise my glass to Albatross.
To all fans of the Free Worlds League, past, present and future.
A Marik PPC for this brave fellow, then. [brew]
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To all fans of the Free Worlds League, past, present and future.
Just don't let those bloody Regulans in..... >:D
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As long as we're playing with monopoly money, drinks for everyone!
Let's keep it civil in here: no hitting above the neck! :D
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Timbiqui Dark for everyone! [cheers]
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PPC...what composition is that? Not ball-lightning I hope.
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http://users.anet.com/~cplkagan/information/drinks.html
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You know guys, it's just great that you all came! :)
The Marik PPC should be with two shots of Ouzo. But your suggestion does have some merit. >:D
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To Albatross!
He left us before his time, but he'll never be forgotten on these boards.
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Well said.
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A Steiner PPC and smoked jaguar for an appetizer. I'll share
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So good to see some familiar users again who haven't been that active anymore since the crush of the old board. O0
@ Vash:
So do you have a favourite province or world within the Lyran relam?
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I visit the Wolves-In-Exile on Arc Royal now and then. Have to say that I like the Skye Rangers coloring scheme to their mechs.
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Some quite distinctive regions of the Lyran Commonwealth!
Seems like Leaguers and Lyrans will share some on-screen time together for the coming products, I guess. Looking forward to it. O0
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Some quite distinctive regions of the Lyran Commonwealth!
Seems like Leaguers and Lyrans will share some on-screen time together for the coming products, I guess. Looking forward to it. O0
Yeah, in the Field Report 3150: Wolf Empire [blank]
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I need more B-tech books. A Terran Mack n Jacks please
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This thread is clearly a Marik ploy to undermine the freedom and independence of former League nations.
Boo hiss.
Yeah, that's my contribution.
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I'd like to offer a toast to the Orloff Mafia <eyes the slowly moving red dot on my chest> I mean....the Vanra Art Appreciation Club...
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This thread is clearly a Marik ploy to undermine the freedom and independence of former League nations future Capellan provinces.
Boo hiss.
Yeah, that's my contribution.
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This thread is clearly a Marik ploy to undermine the freedom and independence of former League nations.
Boo hiss.
Yeah, that's my contribution.
Ye're not really free at the moment, just misguidedly following rebels. But soon you will be brought back into the Free Worlds League family under the benevolent guidance of the Hughes-Halas Mariks.
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Without Thaddeus to make sense of their rag tag military, the reformed League is doomed to shallow graves dug by Andurien-Canopus.
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Ye're not really free at the moment, just misguidedly following rebels. But soon you will be brought back into the Free Worlds League family under the benevolent guidance of the Hughes-Halas Mariks.
Hughes-Halas Mariks?
What's that strange name? Only true Mariks matter and I tell you one thing - Kenyan Marik is the name. [notworthy] He will unite the true FWL!
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*Walks up to the bar
"4 Marik PPC's, line 'em up. This 9Q's for you Albatross."
*slams drinks; promptly falls unconcious on the floor.
-Gunz
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Four Steiner PPCs for muah.
To you Extreme!
*falls face down, wakes up to see new Ursus in the Hangar*
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Without Thaddeus to make sense of their rag tag military, the reformed League is doomed to shallow graves dug by Andurien-Canopus.
I doubt that.
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*sees to that Vash and Gunz are served every drink and meal they order* O0
Hughes-Halas Mariks?
What's that strange name? Only true Mariks matter and I tell you one thing - Kenyan Marik is the name. [notworthy] He will unite the true FWL!
I hope, he'll be back in the story line! But there are others, who seem to have vanished as well. JHS:FR mentions Kitsune Kurita, cousin of late Coordinator Vincent Kurita. But in the novels, it looks like Emi and Yori are the sole surviving members of the whole dynasty. :-\
Yeah, in the Field Report 3150: Wolf Empire [blank]
Well, I am looking forward to kick some Wolf ***. }:)
I'd like to offer a toast to the Orloff Mafia <eyes the slowly moving red dot on my chest> I mean....the Vanra Art Appreciation Club...
That happens always in this thread, when this... Club is mentioned. :D
This thread is clearly a Marik ploy to undermine the freedom and independence of former League nations.
Boo hiss.
Yeah, that's my contribution.
May I offer you something to drink nevertheless? :)
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*sees to that Vash and Gunz are served every drink and meal they order*
Oh, that is going to be a coutesy you regret I promise you. I eat a lot.
*Orders 2 16oz ribeye steaks, 1 chicken dinner salad, 2 baked sweet potatoes with turkey bacon, and a loaf of ezekial bread. ;)
-Gunz
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May I offer you something to drink nevertheless? :)
This isn't BYOB? Just ignore my styrofoam cooler.
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Oh, that is going to be a coutesy you regret I promise you. I eat a lot.
*Orders 2 16oz ribeye steaks, 1 chicken dinner salad, 2 baked sweet potatoes with turkey bacon, and a loaf of ezekial bread. ;)
-Gunz
The FWL doesn't starve her guests! You'll get everything you ordered. Additionally, I can recommend chicken masalah from the Regulan Principality or a nicely spiced lag of lamb from Oriente! O0
This isn't BYOB? Just ignore my styrofoam cooler.
I'm sorry, what's BYOB?
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I'm sorry, what's BYOB?
"Bring Your Own Bottle!" (Beer/Bucket ...)
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Aaaaah, I see! Thanks, Martian.
Of course you can bring your drink, if you wish, False Son! But I hope, you trust a Leaguer from Tamarind to not serve you any poisened drink? O:-)
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The Replevin Doctrine, justifying the pillage of Lyran Beer since 2989.
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[I'm normally more of a Davion, but since it's closer to the league, I'll go Marian for the moment]
*AW walks in, lorica segmentata and all, and wipes his sandals on the floor mat*
Gentlemen, Ladies, Regulans. I bring the Caesar's greetings. You folks perchance serve the Marian PPC around here?
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I am just trying to figure out which table to sit at....they all have different color schemes, shapes, heights, and number of chairs....... >:D
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The Replevin Doctrine, justifying the pillage of Lyran Beer since 2989.
I knew it it had to be good for something. :D
[I'm normally more of a Davion, but since it's closer to the league, I'll go Marian for the moment]
*AW walks in, lorica segmentata and all, and wipes his sandals on the floor mat*
Gentlemen, Ladies, Regulans. I bring the Caesar's greetings. You folks perchance serve the Marian PPC around here?
Davions are as welcome as are Marians. And yes, that means they are welcome! ;)
Why, yes! Of course we serve Marian PPCs. Please, would you refresh my memory? What's in there?
I am just trying to figure out which table to sit at....they all have different color schemes, shapes, heights, and number of chairs....... >:D
Hm, that may be the reason the League's member provinces had such trouble convening and getting it together at federal congresses. ;D
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Why, yes! Of course we serve Marian PPCs. Please, would you refresh my memory? What's in there?
The old Roman soldier's ration, sour wine. [I just made that up, as far as I know there isn't an 'official' Marian PPC] So, how do you boys like being one of us minor powers now? Does it suck to fall so far, or are you just glad to be rid of those other losers?
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I hold true that the League was only a great power when it succeeded. At all other times it was a bunch of nebulous states that pointed fingers and sharpened knives.
And we still have more military production than you space Romans. Tamarind-Abbey prolly not, but Regulan Fiefs, Marik-Stewart Commonwealth, Oriente Protectorate and Duchy of Andurien, certainly. Minor power nothing. I'd rather us win some and lose some apart than the massive collective failure of the other houses during the Jihad.
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At the beginning, I hated the dissolution of my favourite faction. It took me some time to come to terms with. And today I think it's one of the best things, which could happen to the faction. The sub-factions all have an individual, certain flavour, while still being FWL. And the League never ever had more on-screen time! The whole plot arc of the reunion is really intriguing. And it may pave the way for a less flawed and more consolidated FWL, while still retaining the "special flavour" of the "fractured" House Marik.
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I was the same way. I got caught up in the Tommy Halas era because I wanted FWL to be teh winnerz faction so badly. It wasn't until I got over their spectacular collapse that I remembered the whole reason I fell in love with this faction in the first place was the disfunctional and regional nature of the thing. The Tommy Halas era was nice in demonstrating what a unified League could do, but that wasn't the League. I'm happy to see even Regulus and the Rim Commonality get their own storylines again, instead of being the grumbling opposition in the background. And, of course, as an Andurien sympathizer, this storyline could be no better.
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To be honest, if the FWL ever got their crap totally together and became a powerhouse, I'd walk.
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I could deal with them getting a bit more win for awhile. But, only as long as they aren't sacrificing their individuality to do it. Tommy Halas insisted on conformity and gave out the good tech to the sheepeoples that followed along.
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I agree with both of you. The League wouldn't be anymore the League if they became something of a totally unified powerhouse like the other four Houses.
But I would really love to see the FWL on the winning side again. :) At least, for a while. As we all know, no victory in BT lasts forever. 8)
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That's true. But, try explaining that to the Davion cultists.
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I'd say that the majority of Davion fans do understand this vital concept of the eternal struggle in the BT universe. Please no generalizations here. This parlour is open to all fans of all factions. The FWL was always a welcoming house. :)
Maybe it's not so much about winning what some did complain in the past but about more on-screen time for their faction. House Davion did not receive very much attention in the Dark Age novels yet. Of course, the next novel will deal with the FedSuns and I'm eagerly awaiting it. The majority of the series has dealt mainly with the RotS and the incursions of the Falcons, Capellans and Kuritans as well with the rebellions of the various offshoots. I dare to say, that the mini-series of the last five novels about the FWL plot arc are the biggest yet.
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The only real difference between the League of 3025 and the League of 3125 is that they do not meet together to call each other names and insist that all of their maps are colored purple.
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Well, Andurien doesn't have to be forced into fighting on behalf of the Janos and Anton Mariks of the new League. That's an improvement. Though Lester is something of a thorn to Jessica Halas-Hughes-Marik, it's not the same thing as when the Marik family tears a perfectly functional FWL to pieces, or alienates Parliament to the point of rendering the whole thing powerless.
Complete unification is such a bore.
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The only real difference between the League of 3025 and the League of 3125 is that they do not meet together to call each other names and insist that all of their maps are colored purple.
I dunno. Some of the provincial leaders do now value cooperation and union. Fountaine Marik of Tamarind certainly. Though he agrees on his own terms. Same with the Rim Commonality, Oriente and some smaller provinces coreward.
There'll be some kind of new constitution, which is definitely new.
Additionally, contrary to 3025, the FWL faces very, very serious menaces from outside. (Wolfs, Lyrans, RotS)
Well, Andurien doesn't have to be forced into fighting on behalf of the Janos and Anton Mariks of the new League. That's an improvement. Though Lester is something of a thorn to Jessica Halas-Hughes-Marik, it's not the same thing as when the Marik family tears a perfectly functional FWL to pieces, or alienates Parliament to the point of rendering the whole thing powerless.
Complete unification is such a bore.
Hehe, I agree. I have a feeling, that the new FWL won't be boring in this respect. ::)
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That is one thing I lament about the Jihad and breakup of the FWL. That debate about repealing the C-G's state of emergency could have gotten very interesting.
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It was interesting enough to me, anyway. But, it always begged the question of "why now?" why not repeal the C-G during the golden age of peace- the Star League?
Anyway, the Great Debate was colored by the participants. The anti-Mariks ended up voting the same direction as the anti-C-G people. Tommy Halas storylines made me sigh that way. There were few shades of gray. You were either with him or against him, and he played favorites that way. Even the Orloff Grenadiers, who nervously suppoted Tommy while he tried to reduce their individualism and traditions just ended up voting alongside him. Boring. The Regulans, who clearly wanted a Cameron-Jones on the throne ended up voting to force the C-G to step down, vacating the position. A waste of both parties' storylines, from my perspective.
What I found interesting was the vote to dismantle the League. People can place blame where they want, but the League voted to shut itself down. Alot of the votes came from unaligned planets, too.
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Too much text, do you serve burgers?
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If Hamilton Burger were to show up he would be servered a burger and condolences for loosing yet another slam dunk case to Perry Mason.
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Of course we serve burgers here. What kind of burger would you prefer? We have hot chicken burgers from Tamarind , spicy beef burgers from Marik, tangy mutton burgers from Oriente or delicate veggy burgers from Regulus!
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How about a Stone Rhino burger?
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What about barbecue? We space romans prefer pork products.
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Get your own thread, Space Etruscan.
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How about a Stone Rhino burger?
What about barbecue? We space romans prefer pork products.
Thanks to the diversity of the FWL we can serve nearly anything. And what we can't serve can be imported. For fee, of course. 8)
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Get your own thread, Space Etruscan.
Now we see the bigotry inherent in the system. Harumph.
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Of course it is inherent in the system. This was the Free Worlds League! Not the Magistracy Of Canopus!
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Chapman: "Well who is your lord?"
Jones: "We dont have a lord"
A large Rasalhauge coffee and some Draconis halibut sushi please
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*sees to that Vash gets what he ordered*
Wouldn't you prefer tea with your sushi? Coffee does offend my taste of sushi. But there's no accounting for taste. :)
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Bengal spice will work for drink
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A XX and the Callisto ceviche
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A SRM-6 inferno with two medium laser chasers.
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Pay no attention to the Orloff behind the curtain...
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So how many crew members of the "Hildegarde" do you think will die in its next battle?
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All of them, of course!
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All of them, of course!
I see you prefer safe bets.
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Historical reality.
Why would anyone let themselvse be assigned to that tank?
It's like being an extra in Star Trek playing a character with no name wearing a red shirt. You are going to die! Probably in the first 10 minutes of the episode!
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How else are you going to get double hazard pay in peacetime?
And much like countless others before them....they think they can beat the odds. All they gotta do is stay out of combat before they can arrange a transfer, and they're raking in the dough.
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Since there's no thread up in the actual gaming section for the FWL, I'll ask here.
What are people's thougts regarding the Gotha-100? Most folks probably look at the low speed and heat sinks and see a deathtrap, but I think it could be useful as a pocket heavy fighter, preferable paired with Stingrays, and maybe later with Lancers as well. First few turns of a fight, it pours LRMs into the enemy, hopefully softening up targets, or outright killing some of those annoying interceptors. When the LRMs are dry, it flies into the furball, behaving as a sort of wall to guide the fight. Since almost everyone can outfly it, and nobody wants to be hit by it, moving your Gothas first creates zones where you know the enemy will not want to be. Since almost everyone can get out of those zones, they will, but may not be pointed in an ideal direction. This leaves openings for your faster dogfighters to exploit and go for side or tailshots. If someone tries to tail the Gotha, it has more than enough firepower fore or aft to take care of itself, plus enough armor to last for a long time.
Long story short, the Gotha becomes a slow-moving anvil that your force your enemy to dance around, and if you do it right, you can consistently choose the tune of said dance.
Thoughts?
[edit]Huh, turns out we get the -400 and -500 series planes as well. The sopeed is nice, but I think I'd still use them in the same role, or as partners to true heavy fighters.
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OMG! Actual games strategy questions down here in the hall!!! From a moderator???? Ewwwwwww!
(The Gotha 100 can be used that way but heat management it that thing is a real headache. I found the best use is to just coast at low speed firing the LRM's until out if ammo, which does not take all that long. Than switch over to the energy weapons. Fly it like a heavier fighter until it gets shot out from under you, hope to survive and get assigned to something actually usefull.)
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This is a Free Worlds League thread, we speak freely!!!
(Hides from mods)
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This is a Free Worlds League thread, we speak freely!!!
(Hides from mods)
I move the MP from... wherever he's from be immediately censured for supposing my rights!
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Point of Order, there is perfect freedom of speech on the floor.
(Hides once again from mods)
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Point of Order, there is perfect freedom of speech on the floor.
(Hides once again from mods)
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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onomatopoeia from an MP :)
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I move the MP from... wherever he's from be immediately censured for supposing my rights!
Sir, you cannot make that motion here, as we are currently in the restroom. Now calm yourself before I have you restrained for Contempt of Commode!
Point of Order, there is perfect freedom of speech on the floor.
(Hides once again from mods)
There's a lot of things on the floor here...
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Sir, you cannot make that motion here, as we are currently in the restroom. Now calm yourself before I have you restrained for Contempt of Commode!
;D I was laughing so hard that my wife came in from the other room to see what was funny. Then was that awkward moment when you have no possible way to describe what is funny.
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*farts loudly* sorry gents, it's the cuisine around here. Always get gas when I travel.
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Regulan cuisine is not for the faint of gut.
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Regulan cuisine is not for the faint of gut.
Especially when it comes with the typical condiment: poison.
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No, they keep that for back home. You know how imported cuisine is always toned down when serving it to non-natives...
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Its a shame that they view the Marik family as honorary Regulans...
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*giggles*
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Eating Regulan cuisine does not make you regular. Potentially explosive, but not regular.
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Eating Regulan cuisine does not make you regular. Potentially explosive, but not regular.
You forgot bitter
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Regulan cuisine is not for the faint of gut.
Very spicy, helps to prepare those fire-breathing Parliamentary speechs.
Also irradiated for your protection (kills the WoBugggies)
Did we have another thread "What FWL faction are you"?
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Isn't that every FWL thread?
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Isn't that every FWL thread?
Don't forget the requisite argument about what constitutes treason.
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As long as others stay out of our school yard fight, I don't care. Purple kills purple and that's the way I like it.
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Isn't that every FWL thread?
lol ;D
Well I suppose I could start one, can never have enough FWL threads :D
I was trying to remember if we had Orloff or Sirians or Tamarind etc represented on the boards somewhere, rather than just the major provinces?
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The OP is a Tamarind fan.
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Just for the record: my primary FWL province has been Oriente for a very long time. It just recently changed to Tamarind-Abbey.
I guess, LC hasn't noticed yet. :)
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Regulans notice when they start to smell smoke...
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That means somebody has been Oriente cuisine.
It will pass. 8)
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Regulans notice when they start to smell smoke...
Nah, when the geiger counter goes off. ;D
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lol ;D
Well I suppose I could start one, can never have enough FWL threads :D
I was trying to remember if we had Orloff or Sirians or Tamarind etc represented on the boards somewhere, rather than just the major provinces?
When I need to play FWL for whatever reason, I usually go Tamarind or the neighboring Trinity worlds. That just isn't very often. Especially since I like the MH better and they're right in that same general area.
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You Sir, have a very nice taste! O0
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So there's Tamarind (&Abbey)
What about Orloff or Sirius?
I seem to remember somone was asking about Orloff... :-\
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They have wisely chosen to incorporate with the Oriente Protectorate.
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Ruud seems to be a dedicated Orloff fan. He posted in this thread two pages above.
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Orloff fans are our close cousins and always invited. Of course we are fairly inviting, allowing even the "Sicilians" better known as the Sian-Mariks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15_-cKwNWDA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0
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To throw in another of my multiple personalities, when I first read FM:FWL and FM:U I really liked the Silver Hawks. But there's no point in being a SHC fan, not now.
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To throw in another of my multiple personalities, when I first read FM:FWL and FM:U I really liked the Silver Hawks. But there's no point in being a SHC fan, not now.
Don't be that way, House Smith will forever live on in our hearts. Besides, Anson Marik brought back the Silverhawk Irregulars.
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Yeah, but Anson sucks. And a big part of the Silver Hawks was being the military force of a Coalition of minor provinces, not being lackeys of the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth.
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Yeah, but Anson sucks. And a big part of the Silver Hawks was being the military force of a Coalition of minor provinces, not being lackeys of the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth.
I will agree with you that among the leaders of the League states that Anson was comparatively a child, however he did create them to be more than his lackeys. This is revealed on Stewart.
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I liked Anson...
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I said comparatively a child, nothing more. His rants are some of the more entertaining in all of Battletech.
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The rant was ok. I wasn't digging the idea of there being redeeming qualities to the man. I enjoyed watching his fall because it was one of the few displays of realistic, bad leadership. Ok, it was over the top and not always well written, but it was better than say, Max Liao's freakout at Hanse/Melissa's wedding.
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I will give you he is no Ewan when it comes to rants, but entertaining nonetheless.
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Oh, I really enjoyed Max at the wedding. Clasping the dishes for the (not so) hidden strategic goals of his enemies. O0
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Honestly, Ewan Marik takes the cake. Maybe Leonard Kurita comes close. But, only a drunk like Ewan could have an arrogant fop like Kenyon Marik for a son.
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Only a drunkard like Ewan Marik could shamelessly walk out of the Star League meeting with the unsliced cake.
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Ah, the glory days of the League.
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They have come back. :)
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In the vein of the Claw-Hammer, Pein-Hammer, and Slammer, can I load a Hammer full of Thunders and call it a Thunder Hammer?
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So there's Tamarind (&Abbey)
What about Orloff or Sirius?
I seem to remember somone was asking about Orloff... :-\
Well, as of 3139 Tamarind is in Lyran space. Oops.
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In the vein of the Claw-Hammer, Pein-Hammer, and Slammer, can I load a Hammer full of Thunders and call it a Thunder Hammer?
I'd call it a Troll-Hammer, given that mines at that size of launcher, are often laid purely for the annoyance factor. ^-^
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Yeah, i might like Orloff a bit...
I did not care for they joining Orient nor caving to Marik prior to that. Orloff was always proud of their heritage. A lot will need to change to bring "the old" Orloff back. I have not read much of the Dark Ages or past that time, but i have hope that they will regain some of their former stature.
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*brushes the dust off of the furniture*
This parlour is still open, ladies and gentlemen. :)
Regarding Orloff: Maybe the time jump to 3250 will bring some Orloff flavour back. I definitely wouldn't mind. :)
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The jump is a long time to see what happens. If they are still a rogue state headed by the Cameron-Jones will be interesting to see.
I'm a afraid my beloved Duchy may be gone by then, going by the Finish chapter of Surrender Your Dreams. I'm hoping the Former Duchy of Andurien is just for Kwamashu and not the whole Duchy. That is, unless, they merge with Canopus and become AndurCanopus.
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Wait, the Orloffs are not in league with Regulus but Oriente.
And I'm pretty sure Andurien will be around in one form or another; ready to again become the troublemaker we all used to love. ::)
:D
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Oh, right, wow this is turning into a bad day for me. Yeah, poor Orloff. Siding with Thomas Halas was the beginning of the end for their identity. But, they emerged out of Oriente before. They could again, right? I mean, the Silverhawk Irregulars are back after all.
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I'm convinced that somehow the various midsize and even small provinces won't cease in favour of the bigger ones.
That would be a stark deviation of the original House Marik flavour.
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I wonder if the new voting structure will help to break up the old power blocks. The independent planets made themselves heard in the final FWLP voting. Maybe with the Wolves and Lyrans having broken into their territory it will foster a stronger sense of pan-League unity. Of course, I also wonder if Tamarind will ever be won back.
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Especially your last thought thrills me in a special way, as you may have guessed. I really hope that Tamarind will be won back from the Lyrans. Considering that Tharkad is fighting for survival, I'm confident that the LCAF won't have to many reserves for the League front.
As for parliament: I think the old power blocks are gone. Regulus is not part of the new FWL; as is Andurien. And the various new provinces are to young to be counted into the Captain-General's camp (or in her opponents camp).
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I wrote the half of a rather lengthy treatise about the fundamentals of the League´s problems, but I do not feel like posting it. And not in the MechWarrior Hall anyways, so I´ll just throw out some random thoughts and leave the pseudo-scientific derivations aside.
The old FWL state did not work. Not since 500 years.
Who held what right and who held what office didn´t matter. Centralization or decentralization did not matter as well. What powers the Captain-General or Parliament enjoyed did not matter.
In prosperous and stable times civil war could break out in a moment´s notice, just like in times of crisis.
So, why speculate and debate (and fight) about a state and its constitution that is -empirically- not viable?
It is not like there would exist a theoretically perfect constitution or a perfect balance of power between federal, provincial or planetary authority that would guarantee a continued acceptance and hereby a strong state.
Shouldn´t one instead accept the fact that there can be no permanently stable FWL-state and go on to ask the more important, pragmatic questions?
How can the (former) League defend itself against a universe of aggressive neighbours?
How can the (former) League´s members prosper, each in its own way?
How can the (former) League´s members protect their specific kind of freedom from outsiders as well as other (former) members?
Finally:
If there can be no state, what other kinds of organisations, agreements, alliances or commitees would be neccessary so that each former member lives in safety and thrives?
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I'd disagree. The FWL was perfectly viable. The office of the Captain-General was the primary point of conflict. The civil wars started when people started to take the office for themselves. I would have prefered a bicameral Parliament, but some real world places get by with a unicameral form.
Anywho. How the former Marik-Stewart Commonwealth fares will be of some interest to me. They were traditionally the bulwark of Marik support. Now that the clans and Lyrans are sitting in some of their territory and the "legit" Marik line is defunct, will they shift their traditional support to the Halas-Hughes-Mariks?
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I'd disagree. The FWL was perfectly viable. ...
Evidently not.
Since its founding in 2271 there have been numerous conflicts within the state. Some of them open clashes, others more like a cold war. But even when there was no open civil war, I think you (in general, not you personally) can hardly deny that each power bloc within the state was sharpening its knives in expectation of another conflict.
... The office of the Captain-General was the primary point of conflict. The civil wars started when people started to take the office for themselves. ...
You may have a point when refering to the last civil war. And even in this context it wasn´t so unequivocal, as you describe it. There were, after all, the Blakists installing a puppet regime (Corinne Marik and Paul) by coup. And Thomas "Halas" had just been revealed as impostor. Technically there was no legitimate C-G before the provinces declared their independence.
As a sidenote: To my knowledge, the actual infighting started with the gas attack on the Knights and Corinne Marik being forced by her Blakist masters to send FWLM units to mop up what was left of the Knights.
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But I´d like to point to the whole 800 years of FWL exitsance. If we hope to find some universally applicable principles, some common denominator that runs through the FWL history, we cannot just look to recent events. And there have been numerous conflicts within the League out of a caleidoscopic multitude of reasons. Some led to open civil war, some not. But the struggle within the state was always a perceivable undercurrent.
There have been dynastic struggles, in this you are right. (The Sian-Mariks or even Anton´s revolt)
There have been clashes because of foreign policy. (For instance the Andurien War, who was about attacking the Cappies or not)
There have been struggles between parliament and the C-G. (Like when they cut the funding of successful military operations)
There have been conflicts because of domestic policy. (The virtual SAFE-police state of Gerald and Elise Marik comes to mind)
There have been numerous occasions when the provinces agitated versus the gouverment. (See Home Defense Act)
Conclusion: There was always bad blood. Noone ever trusted the other. The fracture lines were always there, be it between the different levels of the administration (federal/provincial/planetary) or along cultural lines. (Regulans vs. Mariks, Anduriens vs the rest etc)
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I will concede, that "who should be C-G?" seems like the important question, because many of the abovementioned conflicts ended with a different Marik being installed as C-G. (Or not.) But then there were few instances (out of my head I´d say just the Sian-Marik issue) where the personnel matter was the only point of contention.
Usually there was an already existing conflict of interests in general, before one faction presented a counter-candidate. (usually a Marik)
And my point is, that whoever tried to topple the state or the C-G had never found it diffcult to rally some support. That is because the abovementioned fracture lines were always there. All a rebel had to do was to stick a wedge into one of the fracture lines and push.
And mostly, he didn´t even have to push very hard.
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First of all, it's good to have you back here Molossian Dog! O0
And thank you very much for this fascinating discussion. I hope, our fellow Leaguers from all over the board (and all over the League) will participate.
[...] and the "legit" Marik line is defunct, [...]
IIRC, this is not true. There are still some "real" Mariks alive (Fontaine Marik and a cousin of Thaddeus who's name eludes me right now) and some we haven't seen at all (Kenyon Marik, the Graham-Mariks).
As for the discussion and Molossian Dogs suggestion I'd say that the constitution of the old FWL was flawed. The League was designed to be a true democracy uniting very distinctive provinces in a sort of confederacy. The original office of Captain-General was intended to be temporary and very curtailed in its powers. Only because the FWL had to give proof of its determination to fight permanently for its survival (and that democracies don't work in BT) let the FWL "evolve" in a hybrid constitution which couldn't survive.
And I'd say, that because of the importance of the office of Captain-General and that it wasn't constitutionally fixed but extended by emergency decrees, the vast majority of domestic conflicts turned on who became Captain-General and in which direction the not so fixed constitution would develope.
For the various provinces to thrive and maintain some sort of security for their citizens, there's only one way: cooperation. And that means some sort of federal level to regulate and mediate the interests of the various provinces and the federal level (the FWL as a whole).
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Evidently not.
Since its founding in 2271 there have been numerous conflicts within the state. Some of them open clashes, others more like a cold war. But even when there was no open civil war, I think you (in general, not you personally) can hardly deny that each power bloc within the state was sharpening its knives in expectation of another conflict.
I'd point out that every state in the Inner Sphere has had internal conflicts within that time period. Heck, the Terran Hegemony was formed by a military coup. The FWL continued to get along until outside influences messed with their politics. That isn't an indication that their way of doing things didn't work.
You may have a point when refering to the last civil war. And even in this context it wasn´t so unequivocal, as you describe it. There were, after all, the Blakists installing a puppet regime (Corinne Marik and Paul) by coup. And Thomas "Halas" had just been revealed as impostor. Technically there was no legitimate C-G before the provinces declared their independence.
This is something of a gray area. While Thomas had fled to Oriente and Corrine was queen of the moment the League was still functioning, if only on paper. You may recall that FWLP disbanded by vote well after the 3 main CGs started their bids for power. Heck, when Thomas was expossed he wanted to call FWLP in to vote on the matter. WoB had anticipated a riot. Instead, they had to instigate things by gassing FWLP and the Knights.
If you consider the FWL and the office of CG seperate entities, the League itself, and even the divded FWLM continued to get along, in some cases in palces without being ordered, like Tamarind. This to me indicates that despite a collapse in central leadership or even well functioning legislative process, the military was trying to protect vulnerable League territories at a time when provincial loyalties were all the rage.
As a sidenote: To my knowledge, the actual infighting started with the gas attack on the Knights and Corinne Marik being forced by her Blakist masters to send FWLM units to mop up what was left of the Knights.
You may be confussing things. The 1st Knights were gas bombed. Corrine took leadership in the coup instigated by Paul Marik. The 2nd FWL took up post as Corrine's Praetorians. When Thomas Halas sent the 2nd Knights to Atreus in order to rescue Cheryl Halas, then the Blakists and Corrine-loyal FWLM units chased them down and shelled them to death.
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But I´d like to point to the whole 800 years of FWL exitsance. If we hope to find some universally applicable principles, some common denominator that runs through the FWL history, we cannot just look to recent events. And there have been numerous conflicts within the League out of a caleidoscopic multitude of reasons. Some led to open civil war, some not. But the struggle within the state was always a perceivable undercurrent.
That's the story of every state in the Inner Sphere, to some degree. In just the 31st century you have:
-2 Rebellions on Skye
-The St. Ives defection and reclaimation
-The Haseks siding with the Cappies
-The Sondovals launching unauthorized attacks against the DCMS
-Operation Sovergn Justice
-The Ronin War
-The FedCom Civil War
-The Andurien Crisis
-Janos Marik's Rebellion
Clearly, politics as usual in the 31st century were ugly for everyone. Other than the conflicts of the 31st century, the FWL endured the Scourge of Death and the deadlock in FWLP over the Comstar War. What other huge conflicts did the FWL suffer that make it the lame horse?
There have been dynastic struggles, in this you are right. (The Sian-Mariks or even Anton´s revolt)
There have been clashes because of foreign policy. (For instance the Andurien War, who was about attacking the Cappies or not)
There have been struggles between parliament and the C-G. (Like when they cut the funding of successful military operations)
There have been conflicts because of domestic policy. (The virtual SAFE-police state of Gerald and Elise Marik comes to mind)
There have been numerous occasions when the provinces agitated versus the gouverment. (See Home Defense Act)
The only two of these that are unique to the FWL are the Home Defense Act and Parliament denying war funds. No other state would dream of giving their regional militaries a legal opt-out of participation in national defense. Not even the DCMS, which is infamously divided by the loyalties of their Warlords is the same thing as Regulus recalling their forces for an imaginary crisis, or the Anduriens becoming a defacto training cadre with 1 regiment seeing action during the Anton Marik revolt.
Conclusion: There was always bad blood. Noone ever trusted the other. The fracture lines were always there, be it between the different levels of the administration (federal/provincial/planetary) or along cultural lines. (Regulans vs. Mariks, Anduriens vs the rest etc)
One of the things that makes the FWL the FWL, IMO is that they left the welding seems of their foundation. The member states met as equals and stayed nebulous as time went on. Compare this to the Confederation, which over time became more centralized. One of the things that made the FWL fun and unique was that each state was allowed to voice their opposition. If that makes it a noisy, quarrelsome place, so be it. Democracy is messy, even when it is suborned to a defacto dynastic military dictatorship.
I will concede, that "who should be C-G?" seems like the important question, because many of the abovementioned conflicts ended with a different Marik being installed as C-G. (Or not.) But then there were few instances (out of my head I´d say just the Sian-Marik issue) where the personnel matter was the only point of contention.
Usually there was an already existing conflict of interests in general, before one faction presented a counter-candidate. (usually a Marik)
I guess my position is "meh". I prefer the original idea behind the Captian-General, the Warden-General appointed by Parliament. Someone appointed rather than inheriting or in Jessica's case, assuming the mantle of a for-life position is not to my liking. But, that's BT.
And my point is, that whoever tried to topple the state or the C-G had never found it diffcult to rally some support. That is because the abovementioned fracture lines were always there. All a rebel had to do was to stick a wedge into one of the fracture lines and push.
And mostly, he didn´t even have to push very hard.
Ryan Steiner, Michael Hasek-Davion, the Von Rohrs and Katrina Steiner would agree. Rebellions and coups are built on existing opposition to the current status quo.
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...
I guess my position is "meh". I prefer the original idea behind the Captian-General, the Warden-General appointed by Parliament. Someone appointed rather than inheriting or in Jessica's case, assuming the mantle of a for-life position is not to my liking. But, that's BT.
...
Our positions may actually not be so mutually exclusive as it appears. You see, my original approach was, that the League would do well to remember its original frame, purpose and goals. A) security for every member B) prosperity for every member.
So, if (currently?) a common state is not possible, because of the bloody recent history and the factions within the former FWL remain irreconcilable (at the moment?), then why not pursue a mutual defense pact. And a successful defense needs a leader. That leader doesn´t need to be the head of state. Just like the office of the C-G was originally intended.
Basically the whole topic revolves around a simple idea.
You can´t agree upon who should rule? Then forget about that for the moment and take steps to ensure that there is something left to rule.
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You may be confussing things. The 1st Knights were gas bombed. ... When Thomas Halas sent the 2nd Knights to Atreus in order to rescue Cheryl Halas, then the Blakists and Corrine-loyal FWLM units chased them down and shelled them to death.
...
You are right, I confused the 1st and 2nd Knights and the timeline.
... What other huge conflicts did the FWL suffer that make it the lame horse?
Too late here to answer that. Will check the sources again and come back to this.
... There are still some "real" Mariks alive (Fontaine Marik and a cousin of Thaddeus who's name eludes me right now) and some we haven't seen at all (Kenyon Marik, the Graham-Mariks).
...
I am not too familiar with the Dark Age, since I did not read any novels. Is Fontaine the son of Photon Marik?
...As for the discussion and Molossian Dogs suggestion I'd say that the constitution of the old FWL was flawed....
My position on this is, that the problem is not purely constitutional. Especially after the Jihad (and I remain unconvinced, that this tendency wasn´t there before) the FWL members (provinces and independents alike) outright fear each other. Everyone fears to be subjugated by another member or an office holder, even in the heyday of Thomas Halas´ supposedly successful reign.
You say yourself...
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The League was designed to be a true democracy uniting very distinctive provinces in a sort of confederacy.
... [Emphasis added]
Many tried to make the FWL a centrally organized state, like the other Houses. It did not work. That is what I wanted to emphasize as I brought up old history. Any constitution, and if it would be the most just and even-handed you can imagine, that had such a centralized state as its goal, would not work out in the end.
Its very nature is that of a confederation. You are completely right on that.
And I tried to make the point, that one should give up trying to make it a monolithic state and instead think about how a confederation could work.
EDIT: After reading the posts of you two and my own again, I am actually convinced, that our thoughts on this matter might be very similar. The terms and definitions might be the problem. If it helps, I´d say you can exchange every "state" in my posts with "Successor State in the image of the FedSuns, the Combine or that stinky lime-green armpit of the universe called the Capellan Confederation". Confederation, ha!
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I am not too familiar with the Dark Age, since I did not read any novels. Is Fontaine the son of Photon Marik?
That's correct:
Therese Brett-Marik --> Photon (Brett-) Marik --> Fontaine Marik (no heirs)
Corinne Marik --> Anson Marik --> Kenyon Marik (only once mentioned)
Alys Rousset-Marik --> Thaddeus Marik III [adopted Jessica (Hughes-Halas-) Mariks children]
And another Marik who's name still eludes me. :-\
Additionally, we don't know anything about the Graham-Mariks.
My position on this is, that the problem is not purely constitutional. Especially after the Jihad (and I remain unconvinced, that this tendency wasn´t there before) the FWL members (provinces and independents alike) outright fear each other. Everyone fears to be subjugated by another member or an office holder, even in the heyday of Thomas Halas´ supposedly successful reign.
To me, it seemed not so much about fear of subjugation of fellow member provinces, but outright greed for power. And here will divide perceptions: To me, the Marik Commonwealth, all things considered, was mostly interested in the wellbeing of the entire FWL (with the exception of Andurien, which got treated rather poorly, I admit). Same could be said for Oriente. But Regulus tried to gain power for power's sake nearly from the beginning. The Selaj and later the Cameron-Jones were not as much interested in the wellfare of other member provinces as they were in their own ascendance. But this is my, subjective point of view.
You say yourself...Many tried to make the FWL a centrally organized state, like the other Houses. It did not work. That is what I wanted to emphasize as I brought up old history. Any constitution, and if it would be the most just and even-handed you can imagine, that had such a centralized state as its goal, would not work out in the end.
Its very nature is that of a confederation. You are completely right on that.
And I tried to make the point, that one should give up trying to make it a monolithic state and instead think about how a confederation could work.
I, too, prefer a not so monolithic entity like the other Great Houses. A confederacy or federation would be fine with me, as long as there's a Marik at the helm (after all, it still is House Marik) and there is some kind of federal frame to keep the provinces together (especially militarily).
EDIT: After reading the posts of you two and my own again, I am actually convinced, that our thoughts on this matter might be very similar. The terms and definitions might be the problem. If it helps, I´d say you can exchange every "state" in my posts with "Successor State in the image of the FedSuns, the Combine or that stinky lime-green armpit of the universe called the Capellan Confederation". Confederation, ha!
I totally agree. :)
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...
To me, it seemed not so much about fear of subjugation of fellow member provinces, but outright greed for power. And here will divide perceptions: To me, the Marik Commonwealth, all things considered, was mostly interested in the wellbeing of the entire FWL (with the exception of Andurien, which got treated rather poorly, I admit). Same could be said for Oriente. But Regulus tried to gain power for power's sake nearly from the beginning. The Selaj and later the Cameron-Jones were not as much interested in the wellfare of other member provinces as they were in their own ascendance. But this is my, subjective point of view.
...
You see, you actually confirm what I said above. There is no trust left between the factions. The Marik Commonwealth supporters suspect the Regulans to be power hungry fiends who just want the Captain-Generalcy for themselves. The Regulans in turn suspect the Commonwealthers to be nothing but power hungry fiends who aim to marginalize them and turn them into a mere vassal state. And then consider Andurien, who would rather lie with their hated enemies in the CapCon than trust in the benevolence of their former compatriots.
And this blame game could go on forever. That is my point.
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In regards to a hypothetical federation I´d recommend to uncouple the office of the Captain-General (who was actually nothing but a warlord) from any provincial power base. As long as people could point at him/her and claim he/she would just further the interests of his "own" province there will always be discontent and distrust.
Or do you think the Anduriens would ever accept a ruler of Regulus OR a noble from the commonwealth as leader of a united military? Or that the independent worlds would trust ANY of the provincial heads of state not to act in their own interest? I think not.
What each of the power blocs and -maybe most important of all- each of the unaligned planets could agree to is a military leader that can enter the stage as an honest broker. Someone unsullied from provincial bias.
Even the best, most honest individual with the best of intentions wouldn´t be able to believably counter such accusations if he would be the head of state of a province at the same time.
Therefore the future Captain-General must be independent.
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Mind you, personally I would not oppose such a man to be a Marik out of principle. That family has always had a knack for military matters. But it may not be one of the Marik families who rule a province.
I bet there are more than a dozen of largely inconsequential sidelines of that dynasty. Why not look for a warlord there?
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You see, you actually confirm what I said above. There is no trust left between the factions. The Marik Commonwealth supporters suspect the Regulans to be power hungry fiends who just want the Captain-Generalcy for themselves. The Regulans in turn suspect the Commonwealthers to be nothing but power hungry fiends who aim to marginalize them and turn them into a mere vassal state. And then consider Andurien, who would rather lie with their hated enemies in the CapCon than trust in the benevolence of their former compatriots.
And this blame game could go on forever. That is my point.
I agree with you, that there's a lot of distrust between the various provinces. We can see this in the DA as well. And you may be right, some Mariks maybe really tried to turn the confederate nature of the FWL into a more ordinary, unified Great House. (As did the Selaj and Cameron-Jones tried to get the office of Captain-General for themselves only out of hunger for power.)
Yes, maybe for an alternative to the current official plot in the DA there could be something else, were all factions within the League have to concede something. In the official plot line, neither faction was willing to do so; maybe with the exception of Tamarind-Abbey.
What each of the power blocs and -maybe most important of all- each of the unaligned planets could agree to is a military leader that can enter the stage as an honest broker. Someone unsullied from provincial bias.
Even the best, most honest individual with the best of intentions wouldn´t be able to believably counter such accusations if he would be the head of state of a province at the same time.
Therefore the future Captain-General must be independent.
I can see what you want. And it's most honourful. But I doubt, that it could work.
The very first Captain-Generals were mere puppets to the whims of parliament. They couldn't make a single decision without asking for permission. Only after some serrious defeats the CG's got more and more power; ultimately raising them above parliament. Ironically, this increased their effectiveness as well.
Therefore, to be effective in office, any future Captain-General needs to be able to make quick decisions regarding the FWL as a whole and subsequently the member provinces. I do not mind if the office is somehow accountable to the provinces or some sort of federal government. But he or she should be able to pull federal (and maybe even provincial) troops from one border of the FWL to another.
And regarding provincial bias: As long as the CG doesn't hail from a single planet "province" but a bigger one, he or she will always meet a certain level of distrust. *shrugs*
And by the way: If House Marik wants to keep her status as a Great House, we can't turn this too much into a loose federation.
Mind you, personally I would not oppose such a man to be a Marik out of principle. That family has always had a knack for military matters. But it may not be one of the Marik families who rule a province.
I bet there are more than a dozen of largely inconsequential sidelines of that dynasty. Why not look for a warlord there?
Again, this honours you. But the majority of the other Regulans and Anduriens won't agree with you, I'm afraid. :-\
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And another Marik who's name still eludes me. :-\
Frederick Marik, Thadeus's brother.
You also forgot Gisele Marik, Corinne's daughter and Anson's mother.
Again, this honours you. But the majority of the other Regulans and Anduriens won't agree with you, I'm afraid. :-\
Not just them. The prefacing statement to FWLP's disbandment was the promise of democracy and the actuality of dictatorship. I don't have anything against the idea of a Marik being the Captain-General, just the idea that it has to be a Marik. Let's face it, this is Battletech and the interuptions in the dynastic rule of all houses was a historical footnote. The FWL is not going to be headed by a Cameron-Jones anytime soon. If it was, they'd have to come up with a new slang term for people from the League. As it stands now, "Mariks" are the catch all term. Still, it is the trappings of for-life, hereditary title and sweeping executive powers that annoy me. Thomas Marik was effective, but for all the wrong reasons. Seeing the League succeed without easy FWLP concensous or "make it so" style Captain-Generals would be a welcomed change.
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And you may be right, some Mariks maybe really tried to turn the confederate nature of the FWL into a more ordinary, unified Great House. (As did the Selaj and Cameron-Jones tried to get the office of Captain-General for themselves only out of hunger for power.)
There is no way to judge the actions of Cameron-Jones had he assumed the office. Any attempt to smacks of propaganda and bias.
We'll never know how he would have ruled had he been C-G.
(Hard to imagine how he could have been more damaging than Tommy/Master)
The fact that he considered Thomas to be an inept, self-serving traitor with strange delusional beliefs should be enough justification to remove him, regardless.
The province of Regulus has long championed provincial rights, so could not easily jettison those beliefs to have a Thomas-style dictatorship.
]The very first Captain-Generals were mere puppets to the whims of parliament. They couldn't make a single decision without asking for permission. Only after some serrious defeats the CG's got more and more power; ultimately raising them above parliament. Ironically, this increased their effectiveness as well.
Therefore, to be effective in office, any future Captain-General needs to be able to make quick decisions regarding the FWL as a whole and subsequently the member provinces. I do not mind if the office is somehow accountable to the provinces or some sort of federal government. But he or she should be able to pull federal (and maybe even provincial) troops from one border of the FWL to another.
Why?
So that they can initiate another grand failure like "Killing Stroke?"
Or to withdraw defenders for opposition provinces so that they are invaded and occupied? (as has been done many times)
Or so that the forces from provinces that the C-G has a political disagreement with can be abandonded on border worlds and denied supply & support?
Provinces that have valuable & vulnerable worlds near the border raise provincial forces WITH THEIR OWN FUNDS to protect those worlds, so why should they be stripped of their defence?
EVERY FWL world contributes a % of its GDP to Parliament to raise an army, so if the C-G & Parliament need a larger army, raise the tax a couple fractions of a point.
Or perhaps just start spending FWL taxes on ACTUAL FWL units instead of siphoning it off to terrorists & foreign powers. >:(
The problem is that any perceived inaction hasn't done major significant damage to the FWL, while the abuses of power that you propose should be given to the Marik C-G have crippled and ultimately destroyed the FWL (as it was known) :(
The powers of a dictator have allowed the Marik family have enabled the actions that seriously damaged the FWL, mainly due to the Marik family civil wars that break out at least once every century.
(Marik Civil war, Anton's rebellion, Duncan/Duggan's scheming that ended Janos's tenure.
To try to repeat a system that was obviously broken is just madness. ::)
[/rant]
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Why?
So that they can initiate another grand failure like "Killing Stroke?"
Or to withdraw defenders for opposition provinces so that they are invaded and occupied? (as has been done many times)
Or so that the forces from provinces that the C-G has a political disagreement with can be abandonded on border worlds and denied supply & support?
The Comstar War is the ultimate example of a Captain-General having too much control over state afairs. Thankfully, FWLP shut that effort down. The Home Defense Act was just as bad for the opposite reason.
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The Comstar War is the ultimate example of a Captain-General having too much control over state afairs. Thankfully, FWLP shut that effort down.
But now it is proposed that one man be given that ultimate power again WITHOUT any checks on his (her) power?
The Home Defense Act was just as bad for the opposite reason.
And yet, nobody can cite any specific example when it did harm?
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The different groups in the FWL might indeed fear, distrust, and dislike some of the other groups. But in the BT world, worse has happened and has been put aside. My guess would be that the fear of an outside force dominating them would be a stronger motivator than the fear of an inside force dominating them.
I would actually find it refreshing if one of the major houses was actually not a dynasty. To have all these different peoples and planets and to have 95% of them fall under one of various imperial, royal, or other dynastic line... strange to me. For the FWL to continually wrestle with the amount of control the ruling family/leadership has makes it unique. Other factions have internal strife too, but most are suppressed and not allow to play out quasi-democratically.
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I would actually find it refreshing if one of the major houses was actually not a dynasty. To have all these different peoples and planets and to have 95% of them fall under one of various imperial, royal, or other dynastic line... strange to me. For the FWL to continually wrestle with the amount of control the ruling family/leadership has makes it unique. Other factions have internal strife too, but most are suppressed and not allow to play out quasi-democratically.
Well, it was pretty much the way of all human civilization for most of human history, until the demise of the great European empires last century.
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Indeed. But with the BT world being set in the 31st-32nd centuries, one would think that not everything would have regressed. There should be new forms of governing etc.
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But now it is proposed that one man be given that ultimate power again WITHOUT any checks on his (her) power?
Also a bad idea. Tommy Marik had almost complete control and it engendered some resentment.
And yet, nobody can cite any specific example when it did harm?
Killing Stroke is kind of complicated. While the provinces yanked their forces and sabotaged the effort, it was still the C-G that launched the op. He should have realized the understrengthed assault wasn't going to work. He wasn't persuading Parliament and should have called the whole thing off.
Andurien was noted in the original housebook as using the HDA as a means of denying the Defenders of Andurien for so long they had barely fought in any conflicts other than the Anton Marik Revolt. Regulus was also using the HDA to sideline troops for political reasons. No disasters to speak of there, but a major hurdle to commanding a unified FWLM.
I would actually find it refreshing if one of the major houses was actually not a dynasty. To have all these different peoples and planets and to have 95% of them fall under one of various imperial, royal, or other dynastic line... strange to me. For the FWL to continually wrestle with the amount of control the ruling family/leadership has makes it unique. Other factions have internal strife too, but most are suppressed and not allow to play out quasi-democratically.
What makes the FWL so unique is that even though the Marik clan is the defacto head of state, there's still plenty of power invested in FWLP. The Mariks occupy what is essentially an emergency military dictatorship in a state of emergency that has lasted since the Age of War. Through political manuevering the Mariks have managed to hold on. But, even as the SL was about to be formed, Albert Marik had to make sure that the peace to follow wouldn't oust his family from power. Very cool stuff. I've always held that the FWL's internal storyline is the most interesting in BT. It always had the bravery to do things the "wrong" way.
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The latest TRO 3145 for the Crapellans mention the 1st Orloff Grenadiers being active! And they got some shiny Mechs from the CCAF. O0
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And, per ER 3145, the sort of reborn Free Worlds League has sort of a big problem.
The Wolf Empire. Go ahead. Get the era report and read. I will wait.
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I've got it from the very first day. And I read about the Lyran/Wolf incursion even years before all from the novels.
Right now, the Wolfs are not a FWL problem, but more a Lyran one. ;)
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Despite the fact that about a third of the worlds of the Wolf Empire being former FWL worlds......
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Indeed. Because the Wolves have focused on the Fortress and the Lyrans. And because the Lyrans have their capital pinched by two clans.
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Despite the fact that about a third of the worlds of the Wolf Empire being former FWL worlds......
With some painfully important production sites, too. I weep for Kalidasa.
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And as soon as the Wolves get tired of having the Lyrans train their new troops........
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The latest TRO 3145 for the Crapellans mention the 1st Orloff Grenadiers being active! And they got some shiny Mechs from the CCAF. O0
Yay! but allied with the Cappies?
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Yay! but allied with the Cappies?
No, not allied with the Confederation. Just mentioned some Capellan designs used by the Grenadiers.
Actually, there are other entries about Andurien and Oriente (to whom Orloff can be counted as well) tried to nibble away some Capellan worlds, while Daoshen was focused on the Capellan March.
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In 3104, yes. Makes you wonder how relations went from Oriente and Andurien cooperating on invading the CapCon to Oriente wanting to invade Andurien for the heinous crime of building a mech factory.
BTW, weird turn of events, considering Thomas Halas eeked a peace treaty out of Sun Tzu. You would think Oriente would continue their tradition of defending their close relationship with their ancestral enemy, the Cappies. Also strange because Andurien had signed trade treaties with the CapCon. But, that may explain what happened with Sadurni. That little blurb about the Amazon is a real chin scratcher.
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Despite the fact that about a third of the worlds of the Wolf Empire being former FWL worlds......
Which means 2/3 are former Lyran worlds. Thus "more of a Lyran one". Not to say they aren't also a nFWL problem, but they're a bigger problem for the Social Generals.
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Yup, the Khan keeps crashing the best parties claiming to be a Steiner! What a bore!
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How fare my fellow Free Worlders these days?
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Ok I s'pose. Although, the longer I dwell on the recent events of FM3145 the more I believe the League is back to "we're also here" position in the storyline.
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Speaking of which, how fare the Silverhawk Irregulars? Last I read they gave Vedet Brewster a run for his money
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As far as I know they are regular now thanks to a recent supply run for Metamucil.
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As far as I know they are regular now thanks to a recent supply run for Metamucil.
(rimshot!) ;D
Seriously though, yes. They did give Brewster a run for his money. IIRC they operated in guerilla lances and companies and generally made life a living hell for him during Hammerfall. Of course it didn't help that Melissa Steiner was purposefully withholding supplies from him...for all the good that did her.
-Gunz
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They were also involved in HOMECOMING. After that, i lost track of them.
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How fare my fellow Free Worlders these days?
Good thanks!
I suppose we qualify as FWL again :shocked:
Wow, what happened to our FWL threads?
Looks like we’ve all gone quiet
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Good thanks!
I suppose we qualify as FWL again :shocked:
Wow, what happened to our FWL threads?
Looks like we’ve all gone quiet
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,76635.0.html
This is the place.