Author Topic: 'Warship' design assistance required-AMC/Troop Transport/Liner  (Read 3362 times)

Vehrec

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I hope Marauder648 doesn't mind that I'm gonna steal his format here...

One of the major passenger-transport companies, Cunard, has approached the SLDF with a request to go 'half and half' on a new compact core ship equipped with a Lithium-Fusion battery for service between Terra and major planets.  While there exist command circuit passenger services, the expense of such operations is astronomical.  Operating a single compact core ship instead of 30 Jumpships is still very expensive, but the Lithium-Fusion battery will enable new and exciting routes to be operated at a speed unheard of for conventional Jumpships.  The ecconomics of such a ship lean towards steerage passengers having the highest margin of profit, and acordingly they have been heavily prioritized.  However, the expense is too great for the company alone, so they have offered these ships to the SLDF as transports for divisions of infantry, able to move rapidly to trouble spots and defend themselves on route.  In the event of a major conflict or uprising, the ships can be refit in 2 months or less at any major yard with appropriate weapons into Armed Merchant Cruisers capable of self escorting with a cargo of more than 10,000 men and women. 

The two masters this ship must serve lead to some very stringent requirements...

Cunard wants at least 1000 Ultra-Delux passenger accommodations (20 ton), 1500 Luxury Passenger accommodations (15 tons), 2000 First Class accommodations, and 12,500 Steerage accommodations.  That's about 125,000 tons total-and they will look favorably on higher totals.
SLDF is of course, more concerned about moving an entire Division with all it's cargo, and what to do to keep the men and officers from bouncing off the walls or defacing the ship.
2 tons of cargo per passenger, to ensure maximum luggage capacity and minimum transport for SLDF troopers.  Minimum 34000 tons cargo.
At least 4 Dropship collars and 20 Smallcraft bays, to ensure rapid transfer of passengers and cargo.
The ship must carry at least 1 year worth of fuel at 1g cruise, or have a very large (200+meter radius) Gravdeck which can rotate slowly enough to provide reasonable gravity with no risk of nausea.
A year's worth of food is also needed, but see below.
Because of the need to ship in fresh food, Cunnard also requests that advanced hydroponics systems for cultivating vegetables, and in-vitro meat cloning tanks be included, sufficient to provide 1 weekly salad for all passengers, and 100 grams of fresh meat daily for all First-class and above passengers.  That's 450 kilos of vitro-meat every day, no insect protein.  But a thousand-ton installation should handle the meat requirements, if we can grow it in 90 days, and 20 tons of hydroponics is enough to completely feed one human indefinitely, so work with those numbers.
Base crew should include stewards, maids, waitstaff, technicians, barbers, and a full-service surgery in the event of a major medical emergency such as a heart attack or trauma.
Because the SLDF wants this ship to be able to defend itself, they expect there to be carefully concealed mounting points for weapons and removable ballast to allow such attachments.
Lifeboats should be provided at the discretion of the designer. (but a full compliment for passengers alone would run nearly 120,000 tons.)
The ship will be very large, and engine power, armor, and other factors are being left to the designers to settle on.
Weapons should be geared with an eye towards engaging dropships and other irregular targets.
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Alsadius

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Re: 'Warship' design assistance required-AMC/Troop Transport/Liner
« Reply #1 on: 23 March 2018, 06:41:08 »
Here's the Queen Margaret, named in classic Cunard style after the first female Cameron I can find a name for. It's built to be a transport above all, with a mountain of lifeboats, small craft, grav decks, and passenger quarters. However, it has a strong structure and heavy armour mounted standard, as well as a range of small point-defence weapons even in its passenger configuration(as the mass consumed is trivial, and they can be useful as emergency anti-piracy defences).

Total passenger count is the 17,000 specified in the spec, plus almost 9,000 crew to properly serve them(the current IRL Cunard flagship has about a 1:2 ratio, which I've kept here). To properly allow egress in an emergency, a full five thousand six-person escape pods and lifeboats dot the outside of the ship. Large multi-level grav decks have been installed, to ensure that the passengers have the ability to stretch their legs in peace(in game terms it's 12 decks, but I'm assuming they'll stack). Food growing facilities take up 10,000 tons - 1,000 for the meat vats, and 9,000 for the hydroponics facilities(which allows about 1/2 of a meal per passenger per week). There's also a large refrigerated cargo area to store their food(about four months' worth, to ensure that they can stay supplied even while in comparatively desolate parts of the route), and a mobile HPG to allow passengers to send and receive grossly overpriced messages home while embarked.

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Queen Margaret (Passenger)
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $31,050,142,240.00
Magazine Cost: $3,200,000.00
BV2: 55,642

Mass: 1,200,000
K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
32 AMS (IS)
40 Gauss Rifle (IS)
40 Laser Large ER (IS)

Class/Model/Name: Queen Margaret (Passenger)
Mass: 1,200,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 216,000
Thrust
Safe: 3
Maximum: 5
Controls: 3,000
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (25 Integrity) 555,000
Jump Sail: (6 Integrity) 90
Structural Integrity: 90 108,000
Total Heat Sinks: 2189(4378) Double 1,487
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 12500 points 5,100
Fire Control Computers: 0
Armor: 2160 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 2,160
Fore: 400
Fore-Left/Right: 360/360
Aft-Left/Right: 360/360
Aft: 320

Dropship Capacity: 6 6,000
Grav Decks:
Small: 0 0
Medium: 6 600
Large: 6 3,000
Escape Pods: 2500 17,500
Life Boats: 2500 17,500

Crew And Passengers:
54 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 540
231 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 1,617
36 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 252
150 Bay Personnel 0
4500 1st Class Passengers 45,000  (Add mass of cargo bay #3 below)
8500 2nd Class Passengers 59,500  (Crew quarters)
12500 Steerage Passengers 62,500

# Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass
4 AMS (IS) Nose 4 12 (1.2-C) PDS 2
4 AMS (IS) RBS 4 12 (1.2-C) PDS 2
4 AMS (IS) Aft 4 12 (1.2-C) PDS 2
4 AMS (IS) LBS 4 12 (1.2-C) PDS 2
4 AMS (IS) FR 4 12 (1.2-C) PDS 2
4 AMS (IS) FL 4 12 (1.2-C) PDS 2
4 AMS (IS) AR 4 12 (1.2-C) PDS 2
4 AMS (IS) AL 4 12 (1.2-C) PDS 2
5 Gauss Rifle (IS) Nose 5 75 (7.5-C) Long 75
5 Gauss Rifle (IS) Aft 5 75 (7.5-C) Long 75
5 Gauss Rifle (IS) RBS 5 75 (7.5-C) Long 75
5 Gauss Rifle (IS) LBS 5 75 (7.5-C) Long 75
5 Gauss Rifle (IS) FR 5 75 (7.5-C) Long 75
5 Gauss Rifle (IS) FL 5 75 (7.5-C) Long 75
5 Gauss Rifle (IS) AR 5 75 (7.5-C) Long 75
5 Gauss Rifle (IS) AL 5 75 (7.5-C) Long 75
5 Laser Large ER (IS) Nose 60 40 (4-C) Long 25
5 Laser Large ER (IS) RBS 60 40 (4-C) Long 25
5 Laser Large ER (IS) Aft 60 40 (4-C) Long 25
5 Laser Large ER (IS) LBS 60 40 (4-C) Long 25
5 Laser Large ER (IS) FR 60 40 (4-C) Long 25
5 Laser Large ER (IS) FL 60 40 (4-C) Long 25
5 Laser Large ER (IS) AR 60 40 (4-C) Long 25
5 Laser Large ER (IS) AL 60 40 (4-C) Long 25

Ammo Rounds Mass
AMS (IS) Ammo 192 16.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 192 16.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 192 16.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 192 16.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 192 16.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 192 16.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 192 16.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 192 16.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 160 20.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 160 20.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 160 20.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 160 20.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 160 20.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 160 20.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 160 20.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 160 20.00

Number Equipment and Bays Mass
30 Bay Small Craft 6,000
50,000 Cargo, Standard 50,000   (Actual cargo)
10,000 Cargo, Standard 10,000   (Hydroponics)
17,500 Cargo, Standard 17,500   (Excess mass of deluxe suites)
8,700 Cargo, Refrigerated 10,000
1 NCSS Large 500
1 Mobile HPG 50

When it is being converted to military use, there are a number of sacrifices that need to be made to allow room for the large and heavy naval weaponry that the ship mounts for combat. The deluxe suites are stripped of their excess fittings, though the large size of the rooms still results in them taking up somewhat more mass than they otherwise would(handwaving: the 17,500 tons of excess goes away, but they're still averaging 10 tons each). The hydroponics facilities are removed, and the cargo bays are shrunk to half their previous combined size, though the refrigerated portion of it is kept intact due to popularity with the troops. This frees up 57,500 tons. A further 7,000 tons is freed up by reducing escape pod/lifeboat allocations by 20% - this still leaves enough for everyone to egress in practice, when combined with the small craft and DropShips, but the excess normally carried when transporting civilians is dropped.

In their place, the Queen Margaret is equipped with a relatively basic set of defensive weapons and equipment. The primary offensive battery is a trio of gigantic naval autocannons in the nose, backed up by two quad PPC mounts on the fore-sides. Small naval lasers dot the rest of the ship, but in practice the Queen Margaret prefers to fight enemies ahead of itself. As well, facilities for mass orbital drops of embarked infantry units have been added, along with bays for three dozen support fighters.

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Queen Margaret (Military)
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $31,321,822,240.00
Magazine Cost: $26,240,000.00
BV2: 99,004

Mass: 1,200,000
K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
3 Naval AC 40
8 Naval PPC Heavy
30 Naval Laser 35
32 AMS (IS)
40 Gauss Rifle (IS)
40 Laser Large ER (IS)

Class/Model/Name: Queen Margaret (Military)
Mass: 1,200,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 216,000
Thrust
Safe: 3
Maximum: 5
Controls: 3,000
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (25 Integrity) 555,000
Jump Sail: (6 Integrity) 90
Structural Integrity: 90 108,000
Total Heat Sinks: 2189(4378) Double 1,487
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 12500 points 5,100
Fire Control Computers: 0
Armor: 2160 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 2,160
Fore: 400
Fore-Left/Right: 360/360
Aft-Left/Right: 360/360
Aft: 320

Dropship Capacity: 6 6,000
Grav Decks:
Small: 0 0
Medium: 6 600
Large: 6 3,000
Escape Pods: 2000 14,000
Life Boats: 2000 14,000

Crew And Passengers:
61 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 610
224 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 1,568
77 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 539
782 Bay Personnel 0
4500 1st Class Passengers 45,000
8500 2nd Class Passengers 59,500
12500 Steerage Passengers 62,500

# Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass
3 Naval AC 40 Nose 405 1200 (120-C) Medium-C 13,500
4 Naval PPC Heavy FR 900 600 (60-C) Extreme-C 12,000
4 Naval PPC Heavy FL 900 600 (60-C) Extreme-C 12,000
6 Naval Laser 35 RBS 312 210 (21-C) Long-C 4,200
6 Naval Laser 35 LBS 312 210 (21-C) Long-C 4,200
6 Naval Laser 35 AR 312 210 (21-C) Long-C 4,200
6 Naval Laser 35 AL 312 210 (21-C) Long-C 4,200
6 Naval Laser 35 Aft 312 210 (21-C) Long-C 4,200
4 AMS (IS) Nose 4 12 (1.2-C) PDS 2
4 AMS (IS) RBS 4 12 (1.2-C) PDS 2
4 AMS (IS) Aft 4 12 (1.2-C) PDS 2
4 AMS (IS) LBS 4 12 (1.2-C) PDS 2
4 AMS (IS) FR 4 12 (1.2-C) PDS 2
4 AMS (IS) FL 4 12 (1.2-C) PDS 2
4 AMS (IS) AR 4 12 (1.2-C) PDS 2
4 AMS (IS) AL 4 12 (1.2-C) PDS 2
5 Gauss Rifle (IS) Nose 5 75 (7.5-C) Long 75
5 Gauss Rifle (IS) Aft 5 75 (7.5-C) Long 75
5 Gauss Rifle (IS) RBS 5 75 (7.5-C) Long 75
5 Gauss Rifle (IS) LBS 5 75 (7.5-C) Long 75
5 Gauss Rifle (IS) FR 5 75 (7.5-C) Long 75
5 Gauss Rifle (IS) FL 5 75 (7.5-C) Long 75
5 Gauss Rifle (IS) AR 5 75 (7.5-C) Long 75
5 Gauss Rifle (IS) AL 5 75 (7.5-C) Long 75
5 Laser Large ER (IS) Nose 60 40 (4-C) Long 25
5 Laser Large ER (IS) RBS 60 40 (4-C) Long 25
5 Laser Large ER (IS) Aft 60 40 (4-C) Long 25
5 Laser Large ER (IS) LBS 60 40 (4-C) Long 25
5 Laser Large ER (IS) FR 60 40 (4-C) Long 25
5 Laser Large ER (IS) FL 60 40 (4-C) Long 25
5 Laser Large ER (IS) AR 60 40 (4-C) Long 25
5 Laser Large ER (IS) AL 60 40 (4-C) Long 25

Ammo Rounds Mass
Naval AC 40 Ammo 160 192.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 192 16.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 192 16.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 192 16.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 192 16.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 192 16.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 192 16.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 192 16.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 192 16.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 160 20.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 160 20.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 160 20.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 160 20.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 160 20.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 160 20.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 160 20.00
Gauss Rifle (IS) Ammo 160 20.00

Number Equipment and Bays Mass
30 Bay Small Craft 6,000
20,000 Cargo, Standard 20,000
36 Bay Fighter 5,400
20 Bay Conventional Infantry (IS), Foot 100 (Drop facilities)
8,700 Cargo, Refrigerated 10,000
1 NCSS Large 500
1 Mobile HPG 50

marauder648

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Re: 'Warship' design assistance required-AMC/Troop Transport/Liner
« Reply #2 on: 23 March 2018, 08:08:19 »
Dang nice design, love the background and idea behind her too!
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Vehrec

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Re: 'Warship' design assistance required-AMC/Troop Transport/Liner
« Reply #3 on: 23 March 2018, 17:35:15 »
Hmmm, let's see what our various divisions have to say...

Ship design: You want 2.5 gravity max burn with HOW big a grav deck?  12 levels, no way to gimbal entire deck segments... it'll be a lot of work to make sure this section of the ship doesn't tear itself to pieces under even Ahead Standard acceleration.  And you want to lavishly garnish the whole thing with some experimental armor compound...

Human Resources: The human touch is nice, but almost 9000 crew, our staffing costs will be hundreds of thousands of dollars per month!  Must we really have so many flesh-and-blood people with modern automation?

Customer Service: Yes, we must!  But why are these forward-areas designated as zero-gravity recreation, lounge and bars?  That's very unusual...

Safety: You're triple-stacking the lifepods to get them into the available surface area, we'll need to ensure that all three can be loaded and the entire supporting strut cut or blown free with explosive bolts in the event one of the pods fails to jettison and remains attached to the ship.

Boats/Auxillery craft: We're gonna need a lot of Boeing 3747s for this, they're good people movers but short ranged...I wouldn't want to try evacuation at a typical jump point, but near a planet, yeah, embarking and disembarking will be pretty easy.  Luggage transfer will take longer that moving the people on and off.

Chef: Microgreens and baby carrots are the order of the day it seems...  We can keep most of our staples and meat in the refer, but it'll be nice to have fresh ingredients that haven't been preserved.  The meat won't have any texture though, it'll all be the consistency of veal or chicken tenders.  We'll need to depend on dropships to bring fresh produce and fruit as well.

SLDF Liason: We're hesitant about releasing Royal-grade weaponry for point-defense work but if you insist I can see what can be done.  As for wartime conversion, this ship looks like it'll be able to carry a heavy infantry division and it's support and logistics people, or two brigades.  It's a bit short on cargo space, but that's what we have the Soyuzes for.  The weapons layout is...interesting, to be sure.  And the command facilities-are you trying to get the commanding general to base operations of this ship?  Not much of a raider, but I pitty any raider who tries to hit her.
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Alsadius

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Re: 'Warship' design assistance required-AMC/Troop Transport/Liner
« Reply #4 on: 23 March 2018, 21:00:07 »
Design: The grav deck I was thinking of as being triple width, 4 stories deep. That's 12 in game terms(or at least I think it is - grav decks seem to be defined extremely loosely in the rules), but it's probably only a single segment. Also, I was thinking after I posted that that I should have just made it a 2/3 thrust craft and used the weight savings to drop its size substantially, so the 2.5g comment amused me a bit. (Also, game rule note - jump sails can't be used when accelerating, so the grav decks are a must in practice. Even keeping a year of fuel won't do the job.)

HR: With that many luxury berths, I was thinking that they'll expect high-end service. Also, I tend to go look up how RL ships work if I ever have any questions about this stuff,  so stealing ratios from real Cunard ships to make fake Cunard ships seems appropriate somehow. And hey, it's more lift capacity for the military, which the SLDF planners like.

Customer Service: If you haven't done "recreation" in zero-G, I strongly encourage it  ;) .

Safety: Granted, but given the choice I think our passengers would prefer to at least have a chance to escape. (No argument, though, the lifeboat requirements are totally bonkers. Still, no way a passenger vessel is going out without them, so the mass needs to be there)

Boats: It'll depend on the route. In a definite point-to-point trip, like New Avalon-Tharkad will be in another era, the ship will probably approach the planet itself. In a route where people arrive and depart at every stage of the trip, I expect the DropShips will meet them at the jump point, and swap passengers on and off as needed.

Chef: Don't complain too much, or I'll replace your freezer with MREs :P .

SLDF: I mostly looked up when the weapons came into use and assumed that anything a century-plus before Amaris was fair game. But if that's a problem we can retrofit it for LRM-20s and PPCs easily enough. And yes, this is inherently a transport first in military use - the weapons and armour will be there, but it's no McKenna. No ship carrying tens of thousands of defenseless infantrymen should be on the front line of a space battle, nor could it be a true front-line ship with that much mass embedded in troop quarters, so it's designed to pack a large punch into a narrow arc and then get the heck out of the way if it can. (Also, command facilities? The NCSS is a sensor suite, and the HPG ties them closer to outside command if anything.) There'll be some admirals who show their flag from one of the super-deluxe suites, to be sure. But with a fellow like that in charge, at least you know that the troop ship will be well protected from battle.

Vehrec

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Re: 'Warship' design assistance required-AMC/Troop Transport/Liner
« Reply #5 on: 24 March 2018, 10:57:44 »
Well the biggest problem on any ship with a big grav deck is how to use that space when you're under acceleration-breaking it into segments and rotating them 90 degrees is full of problems, but so is building everything so it can stand on the walls. and not have things randomly break loose.  It's a significant challenge, all right, and honestly you wouldn't want passengers doing anything but lying on the beds for even short 2.5 g pulses, but you should never need that under 'normal' circumstances, though it does fit the 'fast liner' concept.

Rec doesn't understand why the Zero-g luxury segments exist, because that's an entire bay that can be detached to clear space for the NPPCs and autocannons.

Boats is commenting more on smallcraft than Dropships (the ship might have four paying dropships along for the ride, with two collars left free for company dropships, either cargo or passenger) but even in the era of abundant recharge stations, I feel like the ship will mostly hang out at the jumppoints 90% of the time and only approach planets at the terminus of the run.

Chef is perhaps griping a bit because he knows that it's up to him to uphold that luxury and excellence.  SLDF are being...well protective.

The plan for routes is to have 9 running from Terra to the various capitals of the Member and Territorial states, and one touring the Hegemony's great planets.
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marauder648

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Re: 'Warship' design assistance required-AMC/Troop Transport/Liner
« Reply #6 on: 24 March 2018, 11:45:21 »
Quote
Customer Service: If you haven't done "recreation" in zero-G, I strongly encourage it

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Alsadius

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Re: 'Warship' design assistance required-AMC/Troop Transport/Liner
« Reply #7 on: 25 March 2018, 12:12:14 »
Rec doesn't understand why the Zero-g luxury segments exist, because that's an entire bay that can be detached to clear space for the NPPCs and autocannons.

I worry that I may be missing your point here. Can you explain with a bit less roleplay?

Vehrec

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Re: 'Warship' design assistance required-AMC/Troop Transport/Liner
« Reply #8 on: 25 March 2018, 13:59:39 »
I worry that I may be missing your point here. Can you explain with a bit less roleplay?
Well compare and contrast the small guns that armed the AMCs of the first world war with the armament of this ship.

3   Naval AC 40   Nose   405   1200 (120-C)   Medium-C   13,500
4   Naval PPC Heavy   FR   900   600 (60-C)   Extreme-C   12,000
4   Naval PPC Heavy   FL   900   600 (60-C)   Extreme-C   12,000

That's the front arcs bearing 37,500 tons of guns, in a 1.2 million ton ship.  Compare that to a total of 23 tons out of 20,000 on those old AMCs, who could just bolt the guns to hidden mounting points under the deck plating, we've got 26 times as much gun in the forward aspect alone.  To conceal that and add ballast to the forward section of the ship, a number of removable decks are places where the gun-mounts go in wartime.  These decks are by necessity outside the grav-deck of the ship, and are configured primarily for Zero-G use as the ship seldom moves around under main thrust when it's on a passenger route.  And it felt like this space would probably have more than just bulk cargo space-so luxurious gallerias, sporting facilities and yes, zero-G bars appear in the bow of the ship as a result.

When the time comes to convert the ship to wartime use, a pre-made turret containing the three NACs can be attached after the luxury decks are gone, and the NPPCs trunked into their own housings almost as quickly.  But Recreation isn't aware that these provisions have been made.  She doesn't know the ship's a combination military transport/raider smasher.  She's got questions, questions she's not cleared to know the answers to.
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Alsadius

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Re: 'Warship' design assistance required-AMC/Troop Transport/Liner
« Reply #9 on: 25 March 2018, 14:46:43 »
Ahh, I follow. In that vein, I'd also, put the hydroponics up front - it's a nice big module, and nobody who knows about the conversion will be surprised when it gets dumped in the conversion, nor will people who don't know be surprised by it being in a single place.
« Last Edit: 25 March 2018, 14:52:47 by Alsadius »

 

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