BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat

BattleTech Game Universe => Clan Chatterweb => Topic started by: Xan on 11 February 2020, 23:37:59

Title: Elemental Grand Melee
Post by: Xan on 11 February 2020, 23:37:59: I just got done reading the Exodus road, and the interactions with Paul Moon got me thinking about Elementals in the clan command structure, in that they can just trial any, non blood named warrior giving commands and win hands down. With an augmented (mechanical right arm) Trent still got his butt handed to him, and all he could counter back with was a broken tooth. (With the counter point being, If I recall correctly, Aiden beat two elementals in a bar fight while on the run after failing his first trial, but that may have been more just got away rather won the fight).

A bloodname is the only defense against that, as you don't have to accept the trial from a lesser, until the elementals start getting blood names.

And that lead me thinking to the elemental blood names, with two questions. What in the world does a Elemental grand melee look like, and with the way their suits pump them full of stuff to keep them going until death, is the kill rate close to 100%? I assume in a normal mech warrior grand melee, the survival rate is rather high (as even normal combat seems to be), with auto eject, and normal disabling blows that take out the machine but not the warrior, etc. How large do the Elemental Sibkos have to be for them to produce enough Elementals to keep the ranks up every time a blood name opens up? Also how high does their trial of position success rate have to be to keep the numbers up? From the Jade Phoenix trilogy I assume trial success rates are rather low for normal mech warriors.

Just my random thoughts.
Title: Re: Elemental Grand Melee
Post by: Hellraiser on 11 February 2020, 23:56:22: 1. You can't just disobey orders & say I'm trialing to not listen to you. Even the clan military doesn't work that way. Its still a military. Anyone refusing an order in combat would be treated like any other military, IE, Disciplined....SEVERELY
High Level clan commanders can deny all trials during military operations & restrict them to H2H combat or even to Non-Fatal fights.
We saw that in the Jade Phoenix Trilogy IIRC.
Soldiers who trial for every little thing like getting out of KP duty or pulling guard duty, etc etc etc, get drummed out of the Military by CO's that don't put up with rebellious soldiers, soldiers Follow Orders.

2. Pretty sure the challenged party can choose to fight augmented. Have fun Elemental facing off against a Light Mech.

3. Elemental's are not "dead" for sure on the 11th point of damage. They have a % chance to just be wounded like normal infantry under strat ops rules.
You can also retreat, no one says still keep charging forward when your armor is so holed we can see you in your skivvies underneath it.
Title: Re: Elemental Grand Melee
Post by: Xan on 12 February 2020, 00:09:16: Thank you,

I was probably reading to much into the Exodus Road where Trent felt the need to trial of refusal the orders to raze the cities. When he first trialed Jez Howell to remove the taint in his codex for not following orders to go into the mine Jez was told she could refuse, but trialed anyways. Similar when he trialed Paul Moon to try and save the town, Moon said he did not have to accept the trial because Trent was not blooded and moon was but Moon accepted the trial anyways. Command didn't seem to matter there, just that he was not blood named and Jez and Paul were (and after the trial failing to follow orders was dropped as he won the fight). In the trial against Paul non augmented was part of the bidding, so I can see mechs being used if needed/bid in.

With how seriously clan's take their blood names I do not see many retreating in a grand melee, but maybe they are smarter than I give them credit for.
Title: Re: Elemental Grand Melee
Post by: marauder648 on 12 February 2020, 04:18:49: Quote
What in the world does a Elemental grand melee look like

Australian rules football, with no padding, and less rules would be my guess.
Title: Re: Elemental Grand Melee
Post by: Hellraiser on 12 February 2020, 08:55:43: Quote from: Xan on 12 February 2020, 00:09:16
I was probably reading to much into the Exodus Road where Trent felt the need to trial of refusal the orders to raze the cities.

With how seriously clan's take their blood names I do not see many retreating in a grand melee, but maybe they are smarter than I give them credit for.

Razing a city very much sounds like an illegal order, something against the Ares Conventions, and is absolutely an example I can get behind for declaring a trial.
Fighting for the right to customize your omni-mech at the expense of taking parts away from the rest of your star....... not so much. (Which seems to be a common assumption)

If your about to charge into your 3rd opponent in a suit w/ 1 point of armor & you come across a warrior in nearly pristine armor..... well.... you can charge into combat & die, or you can back off & hope that your performance of defeating 2 previous opponents gets you recognized enough to be chosen by one of the Blood Named members for Nomination next time.
Bloodnames are serious to be sure, but dying before you earn one isn't getting you anywhere.
Title: Re: Elemental Grand Melee
Post by: Colt Ward on 12 February 2020, 11:35:33: Quote from: marauder648 on 12 February 2020, 04:18:49
Australian rules football, with no padding, and less rules would be my guess.

I was thinking of a cage match where the observing mechwarriors kept handing chairs in through the fence's openings.

(http://prommanow.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/ambrose-sheamus-steel-cage.png)

But . . . Hellraiser is right, Trials of Possession and Grievance as part of the touman are guided by some unofficial rules depending on the situation and Clan. I want to say there was a freebirth Star Colonel among the Warden Wolves who had fought something like 20 trials about his position with most of them at the end coming from outside his unit, the insinuation was that it had to do with his being a freebirth. He was so popular in his own cluster as a commander that his subordinates took a dim view of anyone challenging.

As a individual warrior you also had to weight the risk of pissing off the commanding officer of the officer you were challenging. I want to say we get a few conversations where a Galaxy Commander or Star Colonel let a Star Captain or Star Commander (respectively) know they would be very unhappy if the lower ranking officer challenged his superior- and implied he might not survive his superior's displeasure.

IMO, this comes down to RP/character development . . . folks tend to just throw out- well challenge for the position. But to challenge you must have a case or it can turn things against you- superior officers who view it as a distraction & waste of time and the challenger's peers who may not approve.

Consider Conner Rood . . . he did not challenge Montrose during Operation Icestorm even though he knew the situation was falling apart and that it could end his Clan. He was considering the implications and results of what would happen if he challenged during the midst of the campaign. Should he have challenged her after the attack on Wotan? Well, the Hellions hit the Falcon OZ with four or five galaxies (Alpha, Beta, Delta, Zeta and Zeta Prime?) along with a handful of warships escorting their JS . . . and left in a Potemkin with a pair of clusters & keshik. The situation was that bad, and yet he did not challenge because in his opinion it would break the Clan's unity.
Title: Re: Elemental Grand Melee
Post by: grimlock1 on 12 February 2020, 12:42:14: Quote from: Hellraiser on 12 February 2020, 08:55:43
Razing a city very much sounds like an illegal order, something against the Ares Conventions, and is absolutely an example I can get behind for declaring a trial.
Fighting for the right to customize your omni-mech at the expense of taking parts away from the rest of your star....... not so much. (Which seems to be a common assumption)
Unless resources are getting tight, I imagine there are a great many trials for parts, even it its just an arm wrestle. Although I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of depending on the fellow whose nose I just broke over a PPC to be the one covering my flank in a fight.

Quote from: Xan on 11 February 2020, 23:37:59
I just got done reading the Exodus road, and the interactions with Paul Moon got me thinking about Elementals in the clan command structure, in that they can just trial any, non blood named warrior giving commands and win hands down. With an augmented (mechanical right arm) Trent still got his butt handed to him, and all he could counter back with was a broken tooth. (With the counter point being, If I recall correctly, Aiden beat two elementals in a bar fight while on the run after failing his first trial, but that may have been more just got away rather won the fight).

This might be a Smoke Jag variation on trial rules. But if I recall, Alice challenges Bob. Bob either pulls rank, if he has it, forfeits whatever is at issue, or accepts. In accepting Bob decides the nature of the duel. Then Alice chooses the venue. So if an Elemental goes around challenging mech and aero pilots, barring restrictions from higher up, they are going to choose to fight augmented, 99 times out of 100.