Recognition Guide Review - Griffin GRF-3N and Griffin C

[GreekFire]

The redesigned Griffin, featured in Recognition Guide: ilClan, Volume 1

Most BattleTech veterans know the Griffin intimately. Well known for its sniping abilities, there have been more than a few players who have expressed exuberance (or frustration) at the classic strategies often used when playing one. Constant jumps from cover to cover can make them neigh-impossible to pin down, while their heavy armor plating and ammunition endurance makes them masters of winning battles of attrition. Little has changed since the appearance of the first Griffin; most of its descendants follow the same formula, using a strong combination of mobility and ranged firepower to gain positional advantages over their chosen targets. The first ilClan Recognition Guide shows us two of the most modernized variants to appear. Both have their own genealogy and playstyles, but remain clearly and instantaneously recognizable as Griffins.

~ ~ ~

The first variant is produced in Regulan space, and is nothing if simple and straightforward. Using the base GRF-1N as a starting point, the GRF-3N frees tonnage by using bulkier Endo Steel and Ferro-Fibrous composites. A switch to double heat sinks allows the chassis to drop down to eleven total, with all of these changes freeing a total of four and a half tons to be spent on improving the chassis.

Replacing the PPC with an ERPPC is the first (and most logical) change. Three tons are then spent on improving the LRM launcher; one to improve short-ranged accuracy by replacing it with an Enhanced model, the second to increase missile accuracy via an Artemis-IV Fire Control System, and the third to put the two tons of ammo within a CASE II bin to vastly increase durability. The remaining ton and a half are spent to improve the armor, leaving the GRF-3N only half a ton shy of the maximum allowable on a 55-ton 'Mech.

Though the TRO entry (and I) compared this Griffin to the mass-produced GRF-1N, chances are the GRF-3N has a slightly different legacy. The rediscovery of the New Dallas Memory Core during the Jihad spread the schematics for Star League Defense Force "Royal" designs throughout the Inner Sphere. The Free Worlds League put the Royal Griffin back into production at this time. And the new -3N shares much with the Royal design; the armor, engine, internal structure, heat dissipation, main weapon—all are the same. Indeed, the only major difference revolves around the missile systems chosen for each variant. As the Regulan state never produced the royal -2N, it is quite possible that they tinkered with the design to move it towards a role more familiar to their experienced Griffin and Trebuchet pilots.

The end result? A low-cost and rugged design that improves on the oldest Griffin in every way, without sacrificing even a single element. This isn't a bad thing at all—Regulus, by the end of the 31st century, did not have the ability to produce a single medium 'Mech save the Trebuchet (the loss of Gibson hit particularly hard in this regard, with their plants having produced the Buccaneer, Cicada, and Wolverine). While the Trebuchet is a perfectly serviceable rapid missile support 'Mech, the variants available to Regulus all leaned on the fragile side of things. Having a tougher, easy-to-produce medium to bulk up numbers while being able to draw damage away from Trebuchets would be invaluable. Time would not be kind to this variant, however. The gradual progression of technology sees the the -3N gradually become more and more obsolete, and it should come to no surprise that the model quickly began to be sold on the open market. By the mid-32nd century I would fully expect it to mostly serve in lower-priority commands with common supply issues.

~ ~ ~

Our second variant finds its roots within another historically Free Worlds factory complex, albeit one completely co-opted by Clan Wolf. This Earthwerks design, produced on Keystone, is decidedly higher tech than the GRF-3N. Introduced in 3144, the Griffin C is at its core a spheroid-tech BattleMech; a spheroid XL moves it 6/9, while spheroid Endo Steel is used for its skeleton. The improved jump jets (of which it mounts nine), communications systems, and even armor are all spheroid in origin, finding their point of origin with previous Griffin variants or other Free Worlds manufacturing companies.

The weapons are the only hint we have that this is a Clan design. A Clan-spec ERPPC replaces the traditional model, while a Streak LRM-10 fed by a ton of ammo (and protected by Clan CASE II) is a reliable back-up gun. Armor is lower than the -3N but higher than the classic variant, with an extra ton of protection being added.

The TRO calls this a refit of a refit, and we can follow the clues to discover its lineage. The first are its general profile; no Griffins are able to move 6/9/9, save one: the GRF-4R. This Jihad-era refit shares most of the same construction as the new Griffin C. It has the same heat dissipation, structure, and most tellingly, armor protection. Both variants have unusual armor coverage for a Griffin, sacrificing protection on their side torsos below the original -1N model even though they mount more armor overall. The systems used in the construction of the C somewhat confirm this; the jump jets, armor type, and targeting/tracking system are all the same as with the -4R. As such, we can infer that the older -4R was a refit performed on Griffins of all varieties, not just those with the Phoenix visual style.

Not many BattleMechs are able to keep range open against the unusually jump-capable designs of the Wolves' eternal adversaries, the Falcons. As a result, designs like the Griffin might be invaluable in the right hands, capable of dealing with opponents like the Heirofalcon without playing into the talons of the more mobile Clan. It should also be simple for the Wolf Empire to produce, and mass production of the design would allow it to steadily flow into their Garrison Clusters. One way or another, production appears to be high enough to allow it to be an export BattleMech. Clan Sea Fox is noted as being a major distributor of the design, and the Griffin C can be found in the militaries of every Successor State and Clan.

~ ~ ~

The Griffin remains at the forefront of the militaries of many Successor States. Each faction has their own advanced variant, all playing to different strengths and strategies. That the Wolves and Free Worlds League now have their own adds to the ubiquitous nature of the design, and we will undoubtedly continue to see the Griffin even through to the 33rd century.

~ ~ ~

The Griffin's original 'Mech of the Week article may be found here:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,37144.0.html

The new Griffin miniature may be found in plastic in the Beginner Box:
https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/collections/featured-products-homepage/products/battletech-beginner-box

Otherwise, the metal version of the Griffin is currentely available in the wild.
Though it is not yet on the Iron Wind Metals website, it may be found by looking for the "20-5184 Griffin GRF-1N"

Both variants are featured in Recognition Guide: ilClan, Volume 1, currently available through the CGL Store or DriveThruRPG:
https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-recognition-guide-ilclan-vol-1
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/317987/BattleTech-Recognition-Guide-ilClan-Vol-1

Finally, the Master Unit List page for this product:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/425/recognition-guide-ilclan-vol-1

[Empyrus]

I'm not sure i agree with the idea that the 3N gets relegated to low priority commands. Considering so many of 3025-era 'Mechs are still available during the Dark Age to all nations, i'm inclined to think those are used by low priority units. The 3N is just a basic 'Mech, your average unit is likely to have them but for low priority unit they'd be among the better stuff.
(Though then again there are notes that even planetary militia/guard units can have Clan tech, like the BattleMech version of the Koshi or Black Hawk, availability is not really enough to tell about how common something is.)

I like how the 'Mech uses less used tech effectively and without it being actually a hindrance. Enhanced LRMs are among the worst weapons in BattleTech but it works here as an improvement to stock LRMs. Since Artemis is already used, the only alternative would be to use Clan-tech, but that would lead to a functionally retread of the 6S2. Using standard LRMs would allow something like adding extra ammo or an extra medium laser, but those wouldn't really add much considering the fire support role. Removing a heat sink would've allowed adding a targeting computer for the ER PPC though this would bump the BV up some 60+ points.

As for the Griffin C, i don't really like it thanks to it using IJJs. I just can't get behind that piece of tech, and don't like its existence, and since i prefer not to jump unless necessary, i don't like relying on IJJs for mobility though i'll grant this one is not one of those 'Mechs that use small engine and essentially require using IJJs. But ignoring that issue, the 'Mech is reasonable, though i really wish they hadn't removed the right hand actuator for no reason.
Incidentally, and weirdly, this might be the first time we see a 'Mech with IS chassis to use Clan CASE (standard, not II).


The Griffin 3N is makes me think about getting a Beginner Box. I'm not planning on getting nuplastic Spheroid 'Mechs for variety or reasons, but the Wolverine and Griffin are among my favorites and i probably could find places for them in my forces. Need to see Recognition Guide Wolverine variants first though.

[Diplominator]

For decades, the Griffin has been one of those designs that you can drop into nearly any lance and be reasonably confident that it will contribute well. The Clan upgrade is just that, but even more so. That absurd jump distance lets it ruthlessly bully smaller designs while still acting as an incredible scout, some of the last few niches that the original wasn't great at. I really imagine light 'Mech pilots retiring early after fighting one of them.

[nckestrel]

I tried the Griffin C once, and was impressed with its ability to survive a busy battlefield even with Clan assaults around.  It can keep away, be hurt to hit, and still contribute meaningfully.

[MarauderD]

But ignoring that issue, the 'Mech is reasonable, though i really wish they hadn't removed the right hand actuator for no reason.
Incidentally, and weirdly, this might be the first time we see a 'Mech with IS chassis to use Clan CASE (standard, not II).

So it turns out, that missing hand actuator is just errata!

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=70528.msg1639951;boardseen#new

Cheers,

Mad

[Empyrus]

Well, that's good news!

[GreekFire]

So it turns out, that missing hand actuator is just errata!

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=70528.msg1639951;boardseen#new

Cheers,

Mad

You should post that in the errata thread to make sure it doesn't get missed if there's a compilation product down the road.

[MarauderD]

Will do.

[GermanSumo]

for the clan variant, would it have been too much cheese to include a clan large pulse laser? to REALLY go light mech hunting?

[Empyrus]

Between the ERPPC and Streak LRMs, i'm thinking slower pray is what the Griffin C is meant to hunt.
Against lights, LRMs with Artemis V and LPL would be more appropriate. Or perhaps ERLPL, just for sake of using new tech.

[Colt Ward]

The TRO calls this a refit of a refit, and we can follow the clues to discover its lineage. The first are its general profile; no Griffins are able to move 6/9/9, save one: the GRF-4R. This Jihad-era refit shares most of the same construction as the new Griffin C. It has the same heat dissipation, structure, and most tellingly, armor protection. Both variants have unusual armor coverage for a Griffin, sacrificing protection on their side torsos below the original -1N model even though they mount more armor overall. The systems used in the construction of the C somewhat confirm this; the jump jets, armor type, and targeting/tracking system are all the same as with the -4R. As such, we can infer that the older -4R was a refit performed on Griffins of all varieties, not just those with the Phoenix visual style.

You keep wanting to misconstrue this . . . nothing in the write up says the C is a refit of the -4R.  It clearly mentions the -3M and -1DS, which were Clan Invasion era refits of the -1N & -1S as well as new builds.  Further, the last sentence specifically says 'Large numbers of both variants (-3M/-1DS) would eventually be converted by Clan forces to their Griffin C standard.'  The two sentences before that talk about how they would have salvaged the -3M from many sources b/c it was widespread and the -1DS from Lyran sources.

Based on later RecGuides and particularly Rock of the Republic, we can surmise part of the reason the secondline machine went with a Streak LRM system is b/c it will not waste shots from a lesser warrior- part of the Tukayyid learning experience applied to the drive for Terra.  Along with the idea on these new C machines that they could pull a old Griffin 3M or -1DS off the field on one planet and rebuild it to be used in the next invasion or two- its a lot easier to put Clan weapons on a IS machine than to go full IIC treatment.

[mbear]

Between the ERPPC and Streak LRMs, i'm thinking slower pray is what the Griffin C is meant to hunt.

That makes perfect sense for the Giffin C's that are facing LCAF units.

[Empyrus]

That makes perfect sense for the Giffin C's that are facing LCAF units.

Yes yes yes, the famous Steiner scout lances...
On serious note, the Lyrans have incredibly good selection of 6/9 movers, so there is definitively demand for to-hit bonuses. But then again, those aren't that fast, so the Griffin C should do fine, especially if it has a Clan-level pilot in it.

[Colt Ward]

That makes perfect sense for the Giffin C's that are facing LCAF units.

Yes yes yes, the famous Steiner scout lances...
On serious note, the Lyrans have incredibly good selection of 6/9 movers, so there is definitively demand for to-hit bonuses. But then again, those aren't that fast, so the Griffin C should do fine, especially if it has a Clan-level pilot in it.

Except the Crusader Wolves are focused on the Republic- as we have gotten hints, avoiding the problems from Tukayyid with resupply . . .

 . . . and the Falcons that come after.  The movement curve of the Griffin C will let it keep up with more of the Falcon touman.

The only thing the Griffin C is not going to force a PSR on if both weapons hit will be something with Hardened Armor.  Ferro-Lam? 24 points- PSR.  Blue Shield? 23 points- PSR.  Reactive armor?  23 points- PSR.

[jymset]

You keep wanting to misconstrue this . . . nothing in the write up says the C is a refit of the -4R.  It clearly mentions the -3M and -1DS, which were Clan Invasion era refits of the -1N & -1S as well as new builds.  Further, the last sentence specifically says 'Large numbers of both variants (-3M/-1DS) would eventually be converted by Clan forces to their Griffin C standard.'  The two sentences before that talk about how they would have salvaged the -3M from many sources b/c it was widespread and the -1DS from Lyran sources.

Actually, he's spot on in Reading the text's message. The write-up had to tread lightly, as we were blurring the Phoenix-Classics divide there - as a featured 3085 unit, the GRF-4R wasn't eligible for fiat retroactive reinterpretation (watch this space). But it's definitely the parent design; the stated refit program just cements the Classic visuals...

The -4R essentially being a refit too, we feel blurring the visuals in this unit is legitimate, but we eliberately eschewed naming it to avoid confusion with less knowledgeable fans than the ones found in this thread. :thumbsup:

Incidentally, and weirdly, this might be the first time we see a 'Mech with IS chassis to use Clan CASE (standard, not II).

The second one. Bakeneko was the first, at least outside of XTROs, and the sole reason of including it here.

Full disclosure: this decision is being reviewed and may result in errata shortly.

[mbear]

Except the Crusader Wolves are focused on the Republic

In that case...

That makes perfect sense for the Giffin C's that are facing LCAF units RotS superheavy 'Mechs.

[Colt Ward]

Actually, he's spot on in Reading the text's message. The write-up had to tread lightly, as we were blurring the Phoenix-Classics divide there - as a featured 3085 unit, the GRF-4R wasn't eligible for fiat retroactive reinterpretation (watch this space). But it's definitely the parent design; the stated refit program just cements the Classic visuals...

The -4R essentially being a refit too, we feel blurring the visuals in this unit is legitimate, but we eliberately eschewed naming it to avoid confusion with less knowledgeable fans than the ones found in this thread. :thumbsup:

Its funny then b/c the whole section talks about how they can source the -3Ms & -1DS from FWL/LC/mercs to use for the refits and those mechs are still present in military forces in 3150.  The -4R might have been the spirit (armor layout, IJJ, etc that he sites), but as the text is written- especially since the two units already use XLs though I am not sure of ES off the top of my head.

[GreekFire]

Its funny then b/c the whole section talks about how they can source the -3Ms & -1DS from FWL/LC/mercs to use for the refits and those mechs are still present in military forces in 3150.  The -4R might have been the spirit (armor layout, IJJ, etc that he sites), but as the text is written- especially since the two units already use XLs though I am not sure of ES off the top of my head.

I know we've gotten into this before, but just to explain my point of view in this thread: I feel like the word "eventually" in that passage makes all the difference. It's the word that can be used to justify the -4R having the newseen appearance, allowing for a bit more leeway in designing the Griffin C. Also, the whole passage does *not* talk about sourcing -3Ms or -1DSs for refits. It describes the variants, mentions how they were mainstays of the 31st century, but it all boils down to that "eventually" sentence.

And yes, the -4R uses the same Endo-Steel as the C as well.

[GreekFire]

I'm not sure i agree with the idea that the 3N gets relegated to low priority commands. Considering so many of 3025-era 'Mechs are still available during the Dark Age to all nations, i'm inclined to think those are used by low priority units. The 3N is just a basic 'Mech, your average unit is likely to have them but for low priority unit they'd be among the better stuff.
(Though then again there are notes that even planetary militia/guard units can have Clan tech, like the BattleMech version of the Koshi or Black Hawk, availability is not really enough to tell about how common something is.)

My justification for this basically relies on what we've seen in terms of the "upgraded" percentages, and the MUL.

Post-Jihad, the last two publication with the "upgraded" percentages were the field report series, and FM:3085. Both show a FWL that's massively upgraded compared to the pre-Jihad numbers, with only lower-priority commands still fielding Succession War-era designs in any notable numbers.

Fast forward 50+ years, and steady production combined with (relatively) constant combat has likely pushed most of those Succession War designs to militia or bottom-of-the-barrel units. Unfortunately, the only source I can point at to support this assumption would be the RATs, and we know what a bad idea that is.

[Empyrus]

I ignore RATs basically. Too limited in scope to be trustworthy. Plus they give me results i don't like :P.

[Wrangler]

How does the BV stack up for the Griffin C?  It 2,131 BV2. It is 2nd most costly (bv wise of any Griffin including the IICs).  Only the Griffin GRF-6S (Francine II) is more costly.

I can't say i don't like it, i think it's effective.  You don't waste ammo on it, it's speed enough keep people hitting you on a regular basis.  Darn your not going field many of them unless you have alot BV to work with or your ignoring it entirely.