What type of the unit would be the best medium to heavy class harrasser?

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

I was think about what would be the good medium to heavy class harasser. Among them only WiGE will have the possibility to be have 60 to 80t, and the others are around 50t.

The initial thought on them are...

Mech
Mobility - 6/9/6, or 5/8/7 if you have a Partial Wings would be the maximum possible value.
Accuracy - Not so good if you expect it to be jump all the times.
Durability - Good, indeed.
Target Acquisition - Not so bad, for you can change facing to any direction after a jump.

Also mechs can punch/kick the enemy if it gots the enemy in melee.


Hover
Mobility - It can hit 10/15 quite easily even with 50t.
Accuracy - Good.
Durability - Better than WiGEs perhaps, but worse than anything else.
Target Acquisition - Turret.


VTOL(Superheavy)
Mobility - The best among them.
Accuracy - Good.
Durability - Good, consider its fast movement and being airborne, although some rotor hits ruins its day quite easily. Also Superheavy VTOL is not so expensive despite of being Superheavy.
Target Acquisition - Turret.


WiGE
Mobility - Similar to Hover, but slower, and have to move at least some distance. However it can fly over the forest in a pinch, unlike Hover.
Accuracy - Good.
Durability - You can have up to 80t, but if you want to put at least cruise 7 it does not have much difference with Hover but is slower so it would be the worst.
Target Acquisition - Turret.

Also, it have very few canon designs.


LAM(AirMech)
Mobility - WiGE move with minimum of 9 cruise speed, and can opt to move less but keep flying if you want.
Accuracy - Same as jumping mech, and it can't choose not to jump(or it would be an easy prey). :(
Durability - Fragile than normal mechs, but better than anything else for it is still a battlemech.
Target Acquisition - Can't change facing on the weapon phase, so the worst among them. Although its good speed can make up the problem.


What do you think about them? What would be the best option on the most times? Well, on the earth-like atmosphere.

[Daryk]

LAMs win for one simple reason: ASF mode.  That gives them unmatched operational mobility, up to and including orbit.

[Colt Ward]

I was think about what would be the good medium to heavy class harasser. Among them only WiGE will have the possibility to be have 60 to 80t, and the others are around 50t.

The initial thought on them are...

Mech
Mobility - 6/9/6, or 5/8/7 if you have a Partial Wings would be the maximum possible value.
Accuracy - Not so good if you expect it to be jump all the times.
Durability - Good, indeed.
Target Acquisition - Not so bad, for you can change facing to any direction after a jump.

Also mechs can punch/kick the enemy if it gots the enemy in melee.

Well for mechs, the easy answer is- Omnis.  Gargoyle, Timber Wolves, Linebackers with IJJs and cLPLs . . . and superchargers, gives you 5/8(10)/8 for the first two and 6/9(12)/9 . . . though 8 would be better for payload.  The Preta does this w/ERML & TC, but its thin skinned.  Crimson Langur and Black Lanner are also other options- 7/11(14)/? with only the Langur IIRC having jump options.

Classic answer is the TR1 Wraith, though later ERPPC models work well too.

Leaving aside the easy answer . . . Uziel 8S, 6/9/9 with MPLs . . . Phoenix Hawk 7K, 6/9/9 with a Snub- no pulse advantage but a 9 hex short range is a decent advantage.  They Falcon's 'new' Gyrfalcon is also a good option, 7/11 with JJs and it packs cERLL and UAC/2.

But really you want to use ground speed as much as you can b/c it helps keep your heat down, and such skirmishers are going to be mounting energy weapons for the most part.

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

But when on the combined force? LAM would be a good standalone saboteur but what I want to say is something fly around the enemy and aim for the backstab or provide C3 support.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Setting aside the game-breaking nature of LAMs and assuming no BV or other limits, you want the longevity of mechs for the harasser role.  Harassers need to stay in the game long enough to make multiple attacks.  Colt laid out some good advice regarding SC/MASC enhanced ground speed, long-range shots, and potential units.

Spotting for C3 networks, Arrow IV missiles, other artillery, and indirect LRM fire isn’t necessarily undertaken by a harasser.  Those units want to get into short-range to maximize their target modifiers and to-hits, not snipe or plink from farther out.  That doesn’t mean that you can’t have a fast units that can both snipe at range with its ER Large Laser and zoom to hit a rear flank with Arrow IV from its TAG at point-blank.  But usually these kinds of spotter units carry a short-ranged arsenal to maximize their damage at the range they’re using their C3 slaves, TAG, etc.

[Challenger]

6/9/6 is perfectly adequate for a harasser style unit, though 5/8/5 works as well if your careful. Trick is to be no slower than whatever your enemy regards as their ‘line’ units.

That said, if you want to be a complete git, Improved Jump Jets are your friend! Suddenly you’ve got Warhammers pretending to be Spiders and other such madness. I very much like to combine IJJ with SNPPC and TSM, very nasty especially in the 55ton range where your mech will have a kick that forces 2 piloting skill checks and a right hook that removes heads in a single blow.

Challengerp

[Son of Kerenski]

Uziel 8S, 6/9/9 with MPLs

Uzi is 5/8/8. But yes pretty good choice.

The TiTsang is a nightmare and always makes me break out in a sweat when I see it. The Ostsol 8M is a similar beast.

[Gigastrike]

Isn't that what the Dragon is for?  Faster than average movement for it's weight, plenty of long range weapons and ammo, decent armor...

[Kovax]

The "best" depends largely on terrain.  If you've got a few long avenues of clear terrain, a hover can either deliver a devastating SRM barrage at high return-fire modifiers, or else stand off and snipe from range with LRMs or energy weapons.  As long as the opponent has better shots on something that's equally or more threatening (like the heavy 'Mech that's getting right in their face), your harasser is usually fairly safe operating behind enemy lines.  Give the enemy a break to focus their attention on it, and they'll kill your harasser.

In broken terrain, with a lot of trees or elevation changes making a hover less than ideal, you'll want a 'Mech for that role, usually with a heap of MLs or MPLs, and either SRMs or MGs, both to punch holes in back armor and to exploit those holes with a lot of volume of fire.  Delivering a kick after the fact can add insult to injury, or possibly add even more injury.

The effectiveness of VTOLs, WiGEs, and other special movement mode units depends to a large degree on whether or not the enemy has invested in any sort of AA-capable units.  It tends to be either relatively effective or else a suicide run.

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

So at least some degree of durability would be required, for we can't make sure that it never miss, especially against pulse lasers....

Yeah. I have found that some heavies or even assaults are able to harass the enemy with impressive Improved Jump Jet. Although it costs too much, but it would give them a medium-level jump capability so it is worth considering.

And... we can't always choose the battlefield, so usually mechs are our best friend.

[Colt Ward]

IJJ can be ok, but you need to have them on the right unit . . .

I am not a fan of the Marauder II 6D which as 5 IIRC- I think it just sinks too much weight in them.  Same with the Clan's Scylla- a 100t mech that is 4/6/4- which already spends too much on the engine and compounds that with jump jets.  I love the hulking beast though and wish we got the Storm Giant.

[Daryk]

I think the upper limit application for IJJs is the 3/5/5 75-tonner...

[Colt Ward]

No . . . Marauder II 6D as I mention, in 3083 is 3/5/5, anemic firepower- carries 2 Snubs, 2 Light PPCs and a RAC/5.  Battlemaster K4 (3/5/5), Victor 9Ka (4/6/5), Seraph Lum & Dom (3/5/5), 3 Trebaruna quads (3/5/4), Sirocco (3/5/5), plus a Marauder 5W, Crockett, Charger and Xanthos.  The Clans have another 10 assaults before either tech base starts breaking into advanced rules.

[Daryk]

Don't Assault IJJs weigh 4 tons each?

[Caedis Animus]

Don't Assault IJJs weigh 4 tons each?

Well, the 90+ ton ones.

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

So you need to pick either 85t or 100t if you want to use JPs. Poor Highlanders!

Although I have not much experience, but I have seen a 3/5/5 custom mixed tech 100 ton mech of my player on a short test campaign. It was nearly invincible, unstoppable due to its good mobility, while possess immense power(well, because the mech has clantech weapons, of course, but I was allow him to do so). IJJ on assault is very effective, and it worth 20 tons and 10 criticals(or 14 tons and 7 criticals) even on 100 ton battlemech, I think.

[Colt Ward]

As long as you can cool, yeah Clan weapons make them more viable . . .

But to me they would not really be harrassers . . . now a heavy at 4/6/6 like the Guillotine IIC 2, with its load?  Yeah.

[Daryk]

Well, the 90+ ton ones.

Ah, right... been a while since I designed anything that heavy...

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

Yep, I just said it because IJJ was on the topic, and a 100 ton battlemech is unlikely a 'distraction' piece unless on the assault lance. A 75 ton heavy mech would be the maximum tonnage for this usually.

[Kovax]

In my opinion, anything slower than 6/9/x is either a "line" or a "cavalry" unit, not a harasser.

Jump a 3/5/5 unit behind enemy lines and practically every opposing Medium is going to chase it down and swarm it.  It's too slow to run away; that's not a "harasser", it's a close-assault unit with jump jets.  I'd either want something like a hovercraft in the 8/12 or faster speed range, or else a 'Mech with a MINIMUM of 6/9/x with jump capability or 7/11+ ground speed without jump jets.  THAT is a harasser: something cheap that can inflict damage and then run away, forcing the enemy to either split off more valuable forces to deal with it or else suffer repeated attacks with no reprisal.  When the harasser costs more than what it's distracting, it's no longer a harasser.

[Colt Ward]

Yeah . . . if I need something to fill the skirmisher role or for long range strikes, I have a pair of mech lances and a vehicle lance among my main mercs to offer as a example- call it a ad hoc combined arms company.

Wolverine 8K
Wolverine 8K
Uziel 2S
Nightsky 4S

Men Shen OC
Wraith TR1
Bloodhound
Chameleon 7V (lost)

J Edgar hovertank
Blizzard (Black)
Blizzard (Black)
forgot what/if there is a 4th

The Chameleon was lost on just such a deep strike raid at a major supply convoy (which is what happens when all the shots hit a leg) and its likely going to be replaced by a Phoenix Hawk.  Took down some of the guards and blew some supply trucks- one with missile reloads skidded off the road and into the river- but the main bit was to get in there, do damage and get out.  The loss of the Chammie was just a bit of bad luck, and its doubtful the mercs would get it back if they end up winning the campaign in the end- either cannibalized or destroyed in the fighting.

But that is what I task for harassing enemy elements or the raids.  I would honestly like to put another 7/11/? in to replace the Chammie but I am not sure its going to happen.  Each mech lance has a BAP, the 2nd lance can get ECM but the veh lance covers that with the Blizzard (Black).  Mech lances with ranged energy weapons (ERPPCs, PPCs, ERLL & ERML) along with Streaks let them hang in the fight as long as their armor lasts . . . or the food & water they packed along.  For the vehicle lance, the Blizzards have the ability to pack Infernos . . . and lighting a fire under your enemy is a great way to harass them according to Sunny.