Timeline of the Hanseatic League

[Shiro15]

I am trying to put the timeline-information of the Hanseatic League together.
If anyone has further information it would be great if they are added here.


Hanseatic League, Deep Periphery State, Mercantile Alliance ruled by the “Council of Merchants”.
Military: Hanseatic Defense Force, organized in 6 Regional Defense Forces (RDF) and 1 Convoy Defense Force (CDF)
Capital World: Bremen, Controlled Systems: 29

History:

• Ca. 2865: During the reign of Archon Elisabeth Steiner (2859-2895) a large number of Lyrans fled from the Lyran Commonwealth in the Periphery.
• Ca. 2870: They finally settled on a planet they called because of their german heritage “Bremen”. In this region no Hyper Pulse Generators existed. The refugees organized themselves as merchants and travelled to the neighboring (often poorly colonized) systems.
• 2891: Their influence increased and in 2891 the Hanseatic league officially was founded. The Hanseatic League draws its name from the historical terran german “Hanseatische Liga” (short “Hanse”).
• 2920: The ruling Council of Merchants laid the foundation of the “Hanseatic Defense Force” with the decision to recruit mercenary forces.
• Ca. 2950: The Hanseatic league was able obtain enough equipment from the Inner Sphere to form its own army, the “Hanseatic Security Force”. Also a small military industry was established: Bordello Military Goods Inc. is the only manufacturer of military materials in the Hanseatic League and is located on the planet Antwerp. Production line: Mechs: Locust, Wasp, PhoenixHawk, Wolverine; Vehicles: AC/2-Carrier, Tiger, Vedette; Aerospacefighter: Centurion-ASF, Vulcan-ASF; Dropship: Manatee.
• 3011: The ruling Council of Merchants decided open up three worlds to outside trade, guarded by one of the Hanseatic Regional Defense Forces.
• Ca. 3050: Clan merchants appearing openly in the 3050s.
• 3055: Skirmish near the Chainelane Isles against Clan Diamond Sharks: The Hanse lost 2 Jumpships and several Dropships. Since this skirmish, the Hansa has attempted to avoid conflict with the Clans, and merchants have a tendency to direct mercantile interests anti-spinward and rimward (away from the Clan Homeworlds).
• 3067: The Council appointed Captain-General Albert Snow, cousin of the head of the Council of Merchants, Liam Snow, to the position of head of the HSF. Albert began the transformation of the HSF from a simple convoy protection force into a relatively well-trained military command.
• 3067-3081: Jihad
• 3073: Raid of Clan Ice Hellion against Antwerp. The hanseatic RDF2 under Albert Snow successfully defends Antwerp.
• 3074 (?) During the Jihad the HSF launched a disastrous expedition to try and drive Clan Diamond Shark out of the Chainlaine Isles. RDF 1 and RDF 3 are suffering heavy losses.
• ?: The discovery by the Umayyads and the Castilians that the Hanse were manipulating them to keep them locked in a war for the control of Nueva Castile led to constant raids by Umayyad forces, keeping hanseatic RDFs busy. These raids ended in 3080 with the destruction of the Umayyad Caliphate.
• 3080: Formation of the “Escorpion Imperio”. After Clan Goliath Scorpion was abjured they left Clan Space and conquered the realms of Nueva Castile and the Umayyad Caliphate.
• ?:  The Convoy Protection Force found itself tangling increasingly frequently with Clan Diamond Shark forces and taking significant casualties as a result.
• 3088/3089: Clan Star Adder struck several systems in the Hanseatic League in a long term reconnaissance operation. Most of the Adder's Epsilon and Gamma Galaxies were involved, as was a complete naval Star. They returned without two Clusters and a WarShip.

3140: Goliath Scorpion starts its invasion against the Hanseatic League
3141: After 15 months of bitter fights the Hanse has to surrender and is absorbed in the newly formed "Scorpion Empire"

[/list]

[Offworlder]

Indeed. As far as I know that is the limit of information given about the Hansa. They are also mentioned in an offhand manner in certain novels and as the dispensers of black box tech in the Caliphate. But that is all.

Unfortunately, something is happening there post Homeworld Clan incursion which has not been revealed. It seems that post Jihad there is little contact between the IS and the Hansa...

[Wrangler]

I wonder if any thing will come out what left of the Hanseatic League?  I'm sure they're not doing great if they survived with their neighbors being the Empire and the Star Adders trying hose down anyone coming from the Inner Sphere.  Their not the Home Clans, so it's remote chance of that.

[CJC070]

It depends on the Homeworld Clans.  Do they want territory or do they want someone to sharpen their teeth on.  There is also the fact that we haven't "heard" anything since 3100, hence we don't know what is going on.

If some one has heard something please leave a note on where this information can be read.

[Nibs]

Good timing! There is a new product being released detailing a conflict between the Hanseatic League and the Scorpion Empire in the 3140s.

[CJC070]

Good timing! There is a new product being released detailing a conflict between the Hanseatic League and the Scorpion Empire in the 3140s.

Just got the E-mail Friday Aug. 7 and the iClan MIGHT be in 2020 fourth quarter.

[Wrangler]

Well we will get a interesting bunch of updates for the League.

[Red Pins]

Just got the E-mail Friday Aug. 7 and the iClan MIGHT be in 2020 fourth quarter.

don't

I went out on a limb quite a while ago and said, 4Q 2020 - 2Q 2021.  I kinda doubt it, even if it would be a great birthday present.

[Elmoth]

• Ca. 2950: The Hanseatic league was able obtain enough equipment from the Inner Sphere to form its own army, the “Hanseatic Security Force”. Also a small military industry was established: Bordello Military Goods Inc. is the only manufacturer of military materials in the Hanseatic League and is located on the planet Antwerp. Production line: Mechs: Locust, Wasp, PhoenixHawk, Wolverine; Vehicles: AC/2-Carrier, Tiger, Vedette; Aerospacefighter: Centurion-ASF, Vulcan-ASF; Dropship: Manatee.

Nice combination of Level 1 stuff here. Except that I like the griffin I could build a whole unit of the hansa easily gibven my mech preferences....
Only that I do not like much how the hansa is portrayed. [/list]

[Shiro15]

I still ask myself how the Hanseatic league could destroy 2 full clusters of Omni-Mechs of Clan Star Adder and especially how the Star Adders lost a Warship.
Maybe the warship was lost by accident...

But to be realistic I dont see great hope to survive a Clan Invasion.

The Hanseatic League has no Hyperpulse generators. So there is a too long reaction time if an invasion occurs.

Their produced military equipment seems to be obsolete.
But especially the Aerospacefighters are excellent:
The Centurion-ASF is a light fighter with a superb armor and a good weapon arrangement (3 med Lasers).
The heavy Vulcan-ASF was once produced in the Rim Republic and has an impressive friepower.

But neither can the Hanseatic League produce the equipment in the same numbers as the Clans. Also the avarage HL-pilot is surely inferior trained compared to a Clan-Frontline Warrior.

The Diamond Sharks has beaten the Hanseatic League multiple times in so called battles. This Clan seems simply not interested to conquer the Hanseatic League.

Clan Star Adder has run a long recon operation through the Hanseatic realm. So its likely that an attack will follow and against such a mighty Clan I fear that the HL will vanish like the Free Rasalhague Republic did during the first Clan Invasion.

Also the Escorpion Imperio is a great danger for the Hanseatic League. The remnants of Clan Goliath Scorpion had absorbed the neighbors of the Hanseatic League ( Nueva Castile and the Umayyad Caliphate) and are now in strike-distance to the HL.

I am quite curious what will happen next.  8)

[glitterboy2098]

I still ask myself how the Hanseatic league could destroy 2 full clusters of Omni-Mechs of Clan Star Adder and especially how the Star Adders lost a Warship.
Maybe the warship was lost by accident...

depends on the warship. as you mentioned the League ASF arm is pretty solid, it is possible that they took out much of those two clusters before they even hit the ground, and a lot of the smaller warships in clan service aren't terribly good at dealing with fighters.
and there is also the very likely situation that the League would not be as loath to deploy nuclear anti-shipping munitions like the Alamo as the IS was during the invasion. if used according to the Ares conventions specifications regarding distance from planetary surfaces, it could well have let them get away with killing a warship without the Adders being willing to devote the resources needed to escalate the conflict.

[wantec]

It also could have been something like a jump "accident" by one of the League ships. That could have been a big enough loss the commander decided the mission was over.

[Wrangler]

Jumpship accidentally jumping where a WarShip is certainly would wipe out that thing.
It would be hideous loss for the League, though since JumpShips aren't exactly super common or in production the Deep Periphery.

[Minemech]

 They also could have increased their stockpiles of old SLDF fighters through negotiations with fleeing Blakists. They could have even found a large SLDF cache.

[Nerroth]

While it's somewhat of a relief that the Hanseatic League at least survives through to 3140, I'd worry if the Hansa have not used the last few decades to diversify from, or at least to relocate, those facilities shown to exist on Antwerp in Objectives: Periphery.

Antwerp lies uncomfortably close to the side of Hansa space facing towards Nueva Castile - and, for that matter, to those four systems which the Star Adders had briefly occupied (which themselves might well lie within the Scorpions' planned invasion corridor).

Still, having missed out on being covered in any real detail in ISP3, I'm hoping that this might finally be an opportunity for the largest non-Clan realm in the Deep Periphery to be explored in more detail - for its own sake, not just as a target for Clan ambitions of conquest.

[Shiro15]

They also could have increased their stockpiles of old SLDF fighters through negotiations with fleeing Blakists. They could have even found a large SLDF cache.

The Hanseatic league already has quite good designs, which they produce by themself:
1. The light Centurion-fighter is superior - compared with IS-designs like the Thrush, the Seydlitz, the Cheetah or the Sabre. It is also better than SLDF fighters like the Trident, and the Swift.
2. And the heavy Vulcan ASF has a really good punch with its 2x AC10, the Large + Medium Laser and the SRM6.

I also asume that the pilots are well trained in the Convoi Protection Force.

But what means "well trained" in relation to a periphery-state?
I consider an avarage pilot of the hanseatic League as inferior - compared to an IS-pilot who (for example) completed the Sun Zhang MechWarrior Academy.
And the Clan-Pilots are geneticly enhanced.

Also the Clans have superior hardware. Just take the Batu ConfB with all its Pulse Lasers.

To counter these advantages of the Clans (better pilots and better hardware) the Hanseatic League would need a numerical superiority to keep the balance. And the manufacturer on Antwerp is producing the hardware in low numbers.

So they have to adjust their tactics and to try fight in asymetric warfare. Attacking supply routes and so on.
Or - as mentioned before - they have to use nuclear weapons (which would be the tactic of a fanatic state which would not hesitate to use the scorched-earth-tactic. I personally doubt that the mercantile Hanseatic League would use such a tactic)

We should also keep in mind that the planets of the Hanseatic League are not so populated and dont have the same infrastructure like those of the IS-major powers.
The HL does not even have Hyperpuls-Generator-Technology.

I cant await Aug 7th, when the Operation turning Points "Hanseatic crusade" will be published.

[Minemech]

 The advantage of Star League fighters is not so much that they are great, but rather that they are bountiful. Caches are a common plot device in the BattleTech universe. Finding them is considered good. Heck, they could claim to have simply found a large stockpile, and no one would ask too many questions. The Word of Blake could have easily mothballed many of its old fighters in the deep periphery, with the intention of some campaign against the Clans. A periphery state fielding a large assortment of them would not attract too much attention.

[Offworlder]

Well it has been hinted that the HL is able to actually acquire a modicum of 'advanced' weapons. We know they built the original RDFs through smuggling. We also know that by 3065 they had acquired a number of SL systems as attested in FM:Updates - one can speculate that it was WoB's doing or more smuggling or outright purchase in the IS. We also know that post Jihad/Wars of Reaving, they were acquiring stuff from Jarnvolk who were going through the debris left of the Clan invasion corridor.

As to WoB caches, I think its a 3 to 1 chance that any actually exist. It seems that a lot of stuff was sent to Waypoint 532 (if I remember well) which was taken by the Scorpions on the move to Castille. On the other hand Albert Snow is actually married to a Wobbie and may obtain some information about caches.

Lastly, one must consider that when the Clan raiders arrived post Reaving, they actually found a heavily damaged but battle hardened force facing them. The warship (a Vincent class) was actually swarmed bay ASF - standard tactic adopted throughout the IS, so nothing out of the ordinary. Also keep in mind that the raiders hit 4 planets and that basically they were, relatively speaking, spread thin. Its also obvious from clan comments that their fights resembled those of the original invasion of the IS, essentially pitting quality against quantity. And we all know that even in the initial Clan onslaught on the IS, IS powers actually managed to thwart if not outright win a few battles. It was in a way a replay of 3050 only with the defenders having a modicum of information about the attackers - which is no small advantage.

Also, keep in mind that the Hansa has black box tech and therefore any attack would be known in Bremen in a question of days. The HL also has one mobile force (RDF 6) that could have reacted relatively rapidly (ie a few weeks) from the invasion not allowing consolidation of clan forces until such time as the rest of the RDFs mobilized and moved to the threatened area.

And finally there is a small side fact about which nothing much was written but seems to exist in this part of the universe as well - mercenary forces. We are told that the HL 'regulated' or arranged merc contracts in this area. When they wanted to bolster their forces, the HSF actually absorbed mercs with one in particular, becoming a regimental commander. There is no information as to who they are or where they originated, or what sort of equipment they used. So if they were able to actually hire more, especially from the IS which is hostile to mercs post Stone reforms, they may have been able to actually attract second rate merc forces capable of inflicting some losses.

Of course all this above comes with a lot of conditionals as it is difficult to discern what's happening out there precisely because of the distances involved...

[glitterboy2098]

sources/citations on the Adder warship being a vincent, and the league having black boxes?

[haesslich]

sources/citations on the Adder warship being a vincent, and the league having black boxes?

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=515.msg589527#msg589527

This is the only reference that I can find about Black Boxes. I don't have access to the novel to confirm of that's what they say there.

[Shiro15]

Thank you for all these detailed information.

I checked the Distant-Thunder-novel - sadly it was never completed and ended in a cliffhanger.

The black boxes were mentioned in sentences like  "You will find my daughter and bring me back my schwarzer Kasten, or I will (...) ".  (For me as a german this was funny to read :) ).
Also the Hanse seems to have WoB technologie which they exported as Hanse-technology to the Ummayids and the Nueva Castile.

I am still a little bit sceptical how the Hanse will be able to compensate the pilot-quality-gap, compared with Clan-trained forces. But in some weeks we know if the hanse will survive ;)

[glitterboy2098]

singular would be "hansa" i beleive. old latin loan word for "Convoy". the original Hanseatic league was a collection of market guilds and ports along the coast of northern europe which cooperated to dominate regional oceanic trade. the merchant guilds became known as "hansa" due to the way the merchant guild affiliated ships would typically travel in groups from port to port.

[Shiro15]

In the Hanseatic League the used language was middle-german. In middle german the term is (Deutsche or Düdesche) Hanse with E. In Dutch it was called De Hanze - also with E at the end.
In latin it was called Hansa Teutonica with A.

https://www.hanse.org/hansestaedte/

So if they dont use the english word for black boxes and instead call it "Schwarzer Kasten" in the novels, then it is not so unlikely that they would use the old german term Hanse instead of Hansa when speaking german :)

[Elmoth]

I wa about to point out that Shiro15 claimed to be German, so he surely would know about the hansa better than most of us, but he posted faster ;)

[glitterboy2098]

and yet the BT sourcebooks use "hansa"

[Shiro15]

You are correct - the BT-sourcebooks use the term "Hansa". For me as a german this word feels strange so I use the term "Hanse" - so take it as a strange german accent of a strange german user :)

I also honestly admit that I am a little bit inconsequent because I never accepted the german translation of the Battlemech-names in the german BT-novels.
Here I prefer the original english names.

Example: The "IMP-3E Imp" is translated in the german novels with "GFZ-3E Giftzwerg" which is IMHO ridiculous, because Giftzwerg could also be translated as "Poisoned Dwarf". You cant drink enough to give an 100 tons assault Mech the Name Dwarf. On the other hand there was the german WW2-super-tank "Maus"... :)

[kato]

singular would be "hansa" i beleive. old latin loan word for "Convoy".

Ethymologically:

• "Hanse" derives from Old High German "Hansa" used since the 9th century, with "Hansa" originally used by the Hanse themselves. Middle High German later switched the vowel.
• During this time "hansa" as a word was used generally as a German translation of the latin concept "cohors" (group/band/troop), and expressed much the same as the dual civilian/military meaning of "company" in Modern English today.
• "Cohors" in latin, with "hansa" as its translation, had multiple meanings to include "ship crew" or "landhold".
• "hansa" used as such originally derives from proto-Germanic "hanso" which described a band of men living together.
• "Hanse" in modern high German is a singular-only word.

[Korzon77]

Do they have any ability to produce jumpships?  I mean, if they're a trading power, then they either need a way to buy them, or produce them, because you'll have a certain amount of lossage.

[rebs]

We will possibly find out soon if the Hansa can build jumpships or if they buy them.  I would also like to know if they have orbital yards that can at least repair jumpships. 

[Offworlder]

Do they have any ability to produce jumpships?  I mean, if they're a trading power, then they either need a way to buy them, or produce them, because you'll have a certain amount of lossage.

Actually such facilities are never mentioned. However, they do have 'militarised jumpships' (what that means is never really explained) so maybe they do have the ability to upgrade/modify ships.

Interestingly in one blurb that mentions a Blakist ship that suffered a misjump whilst looking for a star system with a Hansa installed recharge station (still looking for it but can't find it). It is not specified if the station was of Hansa origin or if they just put it together with Blakist parts or actually took it from another system and put there at that particular system.

They also seem to be able mine asteroids, another pointer towards them having the ability to build stuff in zero-g.

However, the above can only be educated guesses/conjecture. In my opinion, if there is a yard in Hansa space (and that would make some sense given that the merchant's power depended upon their monopoly of transport and communication in the area), it would make sense that is sits around Bremen. If not, maybe they use the one in RWR outpost though this has never been mentioned, even though its near enough to the HL.

[glitterboy2098]

"militarized jumpships" sounds a lot like weasel-word description of warships. where was that description given? if it is in an old enough book, it could well be a description of warships.

if newer, i'd use the idea of them having resurrected the primitive jumpship (with its "nearly compact core" and sublight drive) and then having some of those armed up with non-capital weaponry. like oversized assault dropships. the short jump ranges of such ships (less than 30ly) wouldn't be a bigg issue since the League is not that astrographically large, and they wouldn't be projecting power outside of their own borders all that often.

[Offworlder]

"militarized jumpships" sounds a lot like weasel-word description of warships. where was that description given? if it is in an old enough book, it could well be a description of warships.

if newer, i'd use the idea of them having resurrected the primitive jumpship (with its "nearly compact core" and sublight drive) and then having some of those armed up with non-capital weaponry. like oversized assault dropships. the short jump ranges of such ships (less than 30ly) wouldn't be a bigg issue since the League is not that astrographically large, and they wouldn't be projecting power outside of their own borders all that often.

'Militarised Jumpships' are mentioned in the FM: Periphery. However, it has never been established what these actually were. My opinion is that they are designs similar to the Tramp. Let's face it, anyone can modify, say an Invader, with large lasers and additional freezers. It does seem however that the Convoy Protection Force has some assault dropships.

Actually the Hansa seems to have escorted its Jumpships almost on a routine basis. It is implied that the escort varied according to circumstances going from an ASF squad to 'Militarised Jumpships and accompanying craft. So maybe they did escort their vessels even on far flung trips, though this is not specifically stated.

[Shiro15]

Updated the start post after the new "Hanseatic Crusade" sourcebook has been released.
The new events regarding the Hanse are hidden in the spoioler-part at the end of the start-post.

[VhenRa]

Wait, Seekers discovered a SL-era BattleMech repair facility on Braunschweig. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot... how does that get out there?

[Decoy]

Star League Era doesn't mean Star League. Wasn't there a group about that time setting up secret battlemech facilities and the like?

[rebs]

Right, it could be a Rim World base. 

[VhenRa]

Never said it was... but its one of our first bits of details in awhile on exactly what the state of the place was pre-Hansa founders arrival.

Something that seems to have been glossed over in what details we had post-FM Periphery. That the Hansa's founders effectively moved in and soft-conquered their region.

[Wrangler]

You don't suppose that some of the people from those RWR outposts ended up in Hansa region of the Periphery? Lyrans that fled could have absorbed Republic citizens to.

Well it dont matter now since League timeline done.

[Elmoth]

At least Vulcan pilots ende duo there, so it is far from a stretch saying that other RWR personnel ended there.

[Doom]

Wait, Seekers discovered a SL-era BattleMech repair facility on Braunschweig. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot... how does that get out there?

Maybe TtS: Braunschweig will answer that in a couple weeks?

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

We still have Hansa today as in Lufthansa...as in Deutsche Luft Hansa (1926-1945)...

[Red Pins]

...A hidden battlemech factory, mothballed and usable by (insert faction here) hundreds of years later?  How unexpected.

And people sneer at, "Your mercenary company has its own massive production facility to supply it." , like the Dragoons/Blackwell, Kell hounds/Manan mac lear (?), or McCarrons Armored Cav/(?) because it's 'unrealistic'?

THIS is how the Scorps manage to stave off the homeclans?  I'm still interested in it and will probably buy it, but this seems just lazy.

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

...A hidden battlemech factory, mothballed and usable by (insert faction here) hundreds of years later?  How unexpected.

I'm still interested in it and will probably buy it, but this seems just lazy.

  Fill in the blanks... SL cache, abandoned Castle Brian, misjumped unit...try to find something that hasn't been tried yet...

[glitterboy2098]

You don't suppose that some of the people from those RWR outposts ended up in Hansa region of the Periphery? Lyrans that fled could have absorbed Republic citizens to.

Well it dont matter now since League timeline done.

given we've got RWR outposes scattered all over the deep periphery, even on the other side of the inner sphere from the RWR, them having one out in Hansa space isn't all that odd. it at least is reasonably close to RWR territory and could easily have been a secret fallback point or something for the rimworlds government and military

[nckestrel]

...A hidden battlemech factory, mothballed and usable by (insert faction here) hundreds of years later?  How unexpected.

And people sneer at, "Your mercenary company has its own massive production facility to supply it." , like the Dragoons/Blackwell, Kell hounds/Manan mac lear (?), or McCarrons Armored Cav/(?) because it's 'unrealistic'?

THIS is how the Scorps manage to stave off the homeclans?  I'm still interested in it and will probably buy it, but this seems just lazy.

I think you've misread.  The factory and the SL facility are not necessarily the same thing.   The factory is said to be believed to have been built with help from the Word of Blake.  It's been running in the Hanseatic League for some time now (WoB has been gone for quite some time..).  The Seekers were not looking for the huge Battlemech factory that had an entire RDF 6 dedicating to defending it. "The factory, built at the turn of the century, is protected by a no-fly zone and heavy orbital patrols." That's rather obvious, you don't need a Seeker team to find what everybody has known about for decades.  They were on a side job to secure a "precious Star League facility".  After the big battle for the system/factory, the Seekers were the only remaining "signficant" force on the planet.  They survived because they weren't at the battle for the factory.

[Red Pins]

>Snip<

Haven't bought it yet, darn it.  That kind of ruins the surprise, but - really?  "Wobbles built it." ?  And a SL-era facility in the same system/planet?

This BLEEDS fiat.  I don't know if I'm still interested in it.  Sorry.

[Doom]

You're missing out. This might be the best in the TP series.

[Red Pins]

There's a limit to my suspension of disbelief.  I wouldn't tolerate this in my own AU.  It's just over the top.

[Doom]

Wait till you hear about Phantom 'Mech Ability.

[glitterboy2098]

sounds reasonable to me. we know the WOB were doing things out there to prepare for their long term goals, so them setting up a factory to support their planned invasion of the homeworlds make sense. that there would be a SLDF site on the same world fits to me, as something had to attract the WOB to that specific world in the first place.

[Red Pins]

Ok.  I broke down and bought it.  And yes, my concern was overblown.  Mea Culpa.

"Built with the assistance of the Wob looking to secure a safe haven after their defeat", is not, "Wob built a factory and the Hansa found it abandoned."

And yes, it looks magnificent.  I can't really set aside time to read it until this weekend, anyway.

[Doom]

 :thumbsup:

[VhenRa]

I don't know where anyone got anything about SL hidden factory. Its a SL-era repair facility. Repair facility could just mean something like "Ok, there is a couple dozen mech bays with some limited machine tool facilities to do better fitting parts to designs."

[Offworlder]

So the HL is no more....  :(

  Fill in the blanks... SL cache, abandoned Castle Brian, misjumped unit...try to find something that hasn't been tried yet...

Or that clans conquer everything in their path. Honestly, after nearly a century of contact with them, no one has figured out how to stop them. The galaxy must be full of idiots... ::)The clans have become  a plague, cartoon evil characters and deus ex machina all rolled in one. But it was to be expected. End of rant... :'(

The issue I cannot really wrap my head around is why the Council of Merchants went suicidal on Bremen. They had run away from other planets during the invasion, even sacrificing their own personal forces. Why did they stand and die on Bremen? They are supposed to be merchants after all, still had JS etc and could have run off elsewhere easily. Aside from tying lose ends to the plot, I honestly cannot understand this fact...

[VhenRa]

Because if they ran, they would live as... poor people.

[Doom]

The issue I cannot really wrap my head around is why the Council of Merchants went suicidal on Bremen. They had run away from other planets during the invasion, even sacrificing their own personal forces. Why did they stand and die on Bremen? They are supposed to be merchants after all, still had JS etc and could have run off elsewhere easily. Aside from tying lose ends to the plot, I honestly cannot understand this fact...

I can see a couple explanations. They hate the Clans a LOT. They're also a very stratified society, lording over their serfs from on high. They most likely didn't want to become serfs (or Laborers) under a group they xenophobically feared, and preferred a death that took (at least some of) the alien enemy with them.

[Offworlder]

Because if they ran, they would live as... poor people.

If one is the owner of a jumpship and attendant dropships, one remains a merchant. The IS has a lot of space for people like them...

I can see a couple explanations. They hate the Clans a LOT. They're also a very stratified society, lording over their serfs from on high. They most likely didn't want to become serfs (or Laborers) under a group they xenophobically feared, and preferred a death that took (at least some of) the alien enemy with them.

This all true but in the past they had also turned away from danger in order to preserve themselves like for example, when they turned their activities away from the Chaneline Isles and more recently during the Scorpion offensive. With an excess of jumpships that they have, it was certainly feasible. They are not fanatics or a deathcult, they are merchants and throughout history, merchants have done everything in their power to save their skins and profit. Of course this is BattleTech... :D

I mean if I was a Hansa merchant I would have loaded up my dropships with all that is not nailed to the ground and the family and made a run to the Lyran Alliance after the Scorpions had overrun the border planets.  :)

[Doom]

That might also have been out of character for them. Their aerospace forces had been wiped out, leaving the Scorpions in control. Trying to run that gamut would simply be suicide with extra steps.

[Offworlder]

That might also have been out of character for them. Their aerospace forces had been wiped out, leaving the Scorpions in control. Trying to run that gamut would simply be suicide with extra steps.

I remain unconvinced - its too uncharacteristic of any given merchant. They wouldn't have waited for the Scorps to get to Bremen to bug out.

And btw the 'strategy' they followed was, to say the least, flawed... ::)

[Red Pins]

I don't know where anyone got anything about SL hidden factory. Its a SL-era repair facility. Repair facility could just mean something like "Ok, there is a couple dozen mech bays with some limited machine tool facilities to do better fitting parts to designs."

I think it's just confusion over not wanting to publish spoilers.  If someone had come out and said, "there was a small SL-era facility on an industrial planet producing 1/3rd of the Hansa's military production", I might not have come across as an idiot.

[Walrus Gumboot]

I remain unconvinced - its too uncharacteristic of any given merchant. They wouldn't have waited for the Scorps to get to Bremen to bug out.

And btw the 'strategy' they followed was, to say the least, flawed... ::)

I observe the possibilty that we may not have been told the whole truth, much less have been lied to. If it hadn't caught one of their Galaxies, my first guess would be the Elementals walked in a nuke. The captain-marshal doing it so that he could surrender is also a possibility.

I also think their strategy was decent enough. It took real skill to beat it. Put them into the 3050's and they would have nothing to be ashamed of.

[Offworlder]

I observe the possibilty that we may not have been told the whole truth, much less have been lied to. If it hadn't caught one of their Galaxies, my first guess would be the Elementals walked in a nuke. The captain-marshal doing it so that he could surrender is also a possibility.

I also think their strategy was decent enough. It took real skill to beat it. Put them into the 3050's and they would have nothing to be ashamed of.

That may be one scenario as it can be plausible... nukes were essentially ancient tech for them.

Re strategy it did seem to be muddled. Ok first phase they were taken by surprise. Then they concentrated their forces - makes sense too. However, then they counterattacked with single regiments with the survivors doubling back when most of the counterattacks failed - this is the part that doesn't make sense to me.

[Starfury]

I like this update for the Hanseatic League.  They had a new factory built by someone, the three run ins with the Clans forces their military and technological advancement into overdrive so they could at least have a chance against the oncoming storm, and the result still didn't save them in the end. But three
war factories, especially with one being the second factory in the Periphery to produce assault mechs natively, for a minor power like the Hansa is pretty impressive. So is their selection of battle armor. Their vehicle lineup is pretty average, but several of the RDF units have some nice flavor choices to help with that.

You have tons of both trooper, heavy firepower, and stealthy BAs to counter Clan Elementals and Mechs.  I also like their choice of Mech designs to focus on.  It's 3050 Steiner/Marik with lots of basic but solid 3025 units for whatever you need. Especially the 4th RDF which has two battalions of assault tanks, and 3 quarters of them are Demolishers because their commander had her Phoenix Hawk take a pair of AC/20s and have her mech knocked out. She disdained vehicles until that point.  That's some nice flavor text there.  The only real holes the RDF and the CDF have are in their lack of advanced aerospace fighters, medium fire support mechs, and their doctrine of setting up detachments across too many worlds.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

That may be one scenario as it can be plausible... nukes were essentially ancient tech for them.

Re strategy it did seem to be muddled. Ok first phase they were taken by surprise. Then they concentrated their forces - makes sense too. However, then they counterattacked with single regiments with the survivors doubling back when most of the counterattacks failed - this is the part that doesn't make sense to me.

They got overconfident after winning against Seeker Galaxy. It makes sense for them to counterattack for a lot of reasons - morale and initiative.

[Wrangler]

I'm glad the Manatees made it in there. There was a line dropped in TRO: 3075 about new Manatee being spotted in the Periphery when it was thought they were extinct.

[Gaiiten]

I think some years ago, Ben Rome ( I believe) told us that there is a TP in the working where the Home Clans invade the Hansa.
Interesting, due the changes among the TPTB, the Scorpions have got their big Moment.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

It makes sense. Wars of Reaving Supplemental and ISP3 seemed to be setting that up.

[Wrangler]

I think some years ago, Ben Rome ( I believe) told us that there is a TP in the working where the Home Clans invade the Hansa.
Interesting, due the changes among the TPTB, the Scorpions have got their big Moment.

Who knows.  If their consolidating the factions. Home Clans may yet invade the former League and Empire owned neighbors in big cleansing.

[Offworlder]

Who knows.  If their consolidating the factions. Home Clans may yet invade the former League and Empire owned neighbors in big cleansing.

That's the feeling I'm getting too. Also, it feels like the point of the Crusade is to set up the Scorpions for a Homeclan invasion and give them a boost (ie three factories that would start producing clantech as if by magic) and provide the Homeclans (if they are still more than one at this point) with a pseudo invasion corridor.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

It's not like the Homies need to go through the Empire to invade the IS. They can always use the original Exodus route.

[rebs]

First post on my new laptop!  So nice not to have autocorrupt ruining my words...

It looks like the Scorpions are trying to get away from the Home Clans.  They should be nice and out of the way of things if the Homies decide to pick up their ball and come play again. 

And I do hope the Homies decide to play again, the universe isn't the same without their taint. 

[Crimson Dynamo]

And I do hope the Homies decide to play again, the universe isn't the same without their taint.

I honestly don't believe there are any Home Clans any more. They're what, six decades overdue with REVIVAL 2.0? Ulric was getting brought up on (flimsy) genocide charges for consigning 3 generations of Clan Warriors to death for the Truce of Tukayyid; this is four times that. It calls to memory the fact that quite a few WoB assets were never accounted for after the Jihad ended, especially a number of Shadow Divisions.

[CJC070]

I honestly don't believe there are any Home Clans any more. They're what, six decades overdue with REVIVAL 2.0? Ulric was getting brought up on (flimsy) genocide charges for consigning 3 generations of Clan Warriors to death for the Truce of Tukayyid; this is four times that. It calls to memory the fact that quite a few WoB assets were never accounted for after the Jihad ended, especially a number of Shadow Divisions.

They are still around remember when they are not sharpening their teeth against the Inner Sphere they are biting each other.  Not to mention last time they were rebuilding their forces this time they are rebuilding their clan.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

First post on my new laptop!  So nice not to have autocorrupt ruining my words...

It looks like the Scorpions are trying to get away from the Home Clans.  They should be nice and out of the way of things if the Homies decide to pick up their ball and come play again. 

And I do hope the Homies decide to play again, the universe isn't the same without their taint.

The ilClan on Terra will definitely trigger a response from the Homies.

[Elmoth]

Tha tis assuming that the Hollies have the slightest idea of what is happening in the IS. I am not sure about that.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

They would need something like the Outbound Light incident to get that info. It is Battletech afterall, I'm sure some plot will be written to justify the Homies intervening

[VhenRa]

I honestly don't believe there are any Home Clans any more. They're what, six decades overdue with REVIVAL 2.0? Ulric was getting brought up on (flimsy) genocide charges for consigning 3 generations of Clan Warriors to death for the Truce of Tukayyid; this is four times that. It calls to memory the fact that quite a few WoB assets were never accounted for after the Jihad ended, especially a number of Shadow Divisions.

Unaccounted for Wobbies, including a few warships, decide to go nuke the Homeworlds to they glow in the dark? And then nuke them again for good measure?

[Wrangler]

All the campaign was awesome. I just feel like in the overall picture of getting rid of or doing housekeeping in the Periphery and the Deep Periphery is going to leave to the genification of Periphery, making it boring and dull.

The league and it neighbors added flavor to the greater whole beyond the Inner Sphere.
They got rid of it because of maintenance headaches of keep track all those factions?
They were in cycle of war that kept them from getting out of contol.  They certainly not expanding beyond their borders.

I just don't agree this was needed to be done. Now League Timeline is done.

[vaderi]

I just feel like in the overall picture of getting rid of or doing housekeeping in the Periphery and the Deep Periphery is going to leave to the genification of Periphery, making it boring and dull.

I don't know if I can agree with you, IP3 gave us 3-4 new Deep Periphery powers, each just as able to affect the Inner Sphere as the Hansa or the Umayyads. I also don't agree that a static Periphery is interesting, personally I find a universe with no change to be boring myself. Would the periphery be as interesting as it is if the Taurian Concordat never changed, or if the Marian Hegemony had never gone on it's rampage of conquests? Personally I don't think it would have been.

[Doom]

TtS: Braunschweig dropped today. It has more to add about the early years of the League. Some interesting details there.

[Wrangler]

TtS: Braunschweig dropped today. It has more to add about the early years of the League. Some interesting details there.

Yeah, seriously.  I'm curious with this kind background, that Clans will fix their issues socially.

[Offworlder]

All the campaign was awesome. I just feel like in the overall picture of getting rid of or doing housekeeping in the Periphery and the Deep Periphery is going to leave to the genification of Periphery, making it boring and dull.

The league and it neighbors added flavor to the greater whole beyond the Inner Sphere.
They got rid of it because of maintenance headaches of keep track all those factions?
They were in cycle of war that kept them from getting out of contol.  They certainly not expanding beyond their borders.

I just don't agree this was needed to be done. Now League Timeline is done.

Unfortunately you are right. Actually the impression I'm getting is that the deep periphery is being abandoned rather than extended... kind of the borders are receding to the IS.

I would have loved having the Hansa fleshed out a bit more as it was a completely different from the almost standard space-feudal or space-Mongol setups that dominate BT. And being out there was even more interesting than having the see-saw campaigns of the IS.

[RexCalices]

"RDF  8  specializes  in  ambush  tactics.    Known    as    the    Vipers,    they    are   expert   in   camouflage,   springing   surprise  attacks  with  stunning  acumen.  The infantry are especially adept at urban ambushes."

This sounds suspiciously like the conventional infantry loving Steel Vipers to me.

[Shiro15]

Unfortunately you are right. Actually the impression I'm getting is that the deep periphery is being abandoned rather than extended... kind of the borders are receding to the IS.

I would have loved having the Hansa fleshed out a bit more as it was a completely different from the almost standard space-feudal or space-Mongol setups that dominate BT. And being out there was even more interesting than having the see-saw campaigns of the IS.

Yes - I totally agree.

The Hanse was a fascinating "old school" battletech realm.
I never liked the new technologies of the Clan Tech but preferred the old BT-universe. Some realms which struggle to keep technology alive and where a Battlemech was a rare item and often lostech which kept alive by putting in improvised parts.

So I was really glad when I encountered the Hanse and its storyline. Their only factory produced obsolete and forgotten designs like the Vulcan-Aerospacefighter or the Tiger Tank.
The planets were not so populated and it was for me a reincarnation of the old battletech universe I loved so much and prefer in comparison with the clans or the new-tech-Inner Sphere realms.

It is absolutely clear that the Hanse could not survive an invasion against a high-tech-nation.

But I would have preferred if the Hanse had simply survived because it was not important enough to be conquered.

So with the Hanse a very fascinating element was eliminated from the BT-Universe as my interest to play in this new timeline.
On the other hand my friends here and I prefer the old classic 3025 line before the 4th Succession Wars and in our tabletop meetings there is no clan-technology present:)

[Wrangler]

It was shame they could have left them alone for people wanted to dabble in something different wanted it to be alive canon thing and not "Do what you want at your table" thing.

There are other Periphery nations out there CGL hasn't stomp the foot on yet. So there some hopes.  They need to be fleshed out.

[glitterboy2098]

But I would have preferred if the Hanse had simply survived because it was not important enough to be conquered.

given it was the largest, most organized, and most advanced deep periphery realm outside of the homeworlds, it is hard to argue that the league was "not important enough"

[Elmoth]

It is far enough though. So far the hansa has had zero effect on the IS.

[glitterboy2098]

It is far enough though. So far the hansa has had zero effect on the IS.

and if the IS had attacked and invaded that would be a valid criticism. but it was a clan that did it. the league is very near the homeworlds, and the biggest vulnerable target in the coreward deep periphery. that makes a very tempting target for both the homeworlders and the Scorpions.

[CJC070]

It was shame they could have left them alone for people wanted to dabble in something different wanted it to be alive canon thing and not "Do what you want at your table" thing.

There are other Periphery nations out there CGL hasn't stomp the foot on yet. So there some hopes.  They need to be fleshed out.

From all appearances the Scorpions absorb not only the people but the culture and ideals as well.  In my opinion someone can create an interesting campaign from this. I also feel that there is a coming conflict between the Scorpion Empire and the Homeworlds Clan.  Definitely something to see.

[Offworlder]

It was shame they could have left them alone for people wanted to dabble in something different wanted it to be alive canon thing and not "Do what you want at your table" thing.

There are other Periphery nations out there CGL hasn't stomp the foot on yet. So there some hopes.  They need to be fleshed out.

Yes. And there is also the fact that the Hansa was the only real non-feudal or space-Mongol or pirate faction in the BT universe. I mean, I actually love/d the fact that  there are/were several factions who have/had different goals other than acquiring planets like Comstar, Knights of St Cameron and many others. These give a more 'realistic' feel to the universe.

[Kret69]

(...)

The Hanse was a fascinating "old school" battletech realm. (...)

Absolutely. For me it would be one of the major powers as the Periphery is my preferred area. I also like Your timeline. ;)

(...)

It is absolutely clear that the Hanse could not survive an invasion against a high-tech-nation.

But I would have preferred if the Hanse had simply survived because it was not important enough to be conquered.

I like to think this Hansa bears more resemblance to the original Hanse than just a name. It is not an empire ruling lands, it is a well established corporation of indepedent merchants sharing maps, lanes, tech and most importantly - payment and communication procedures. It makes them a different kind of power - one that Clans would not necessarily be able to infiltrate and crush. Because it does not rely on holding specific places.

Also, the destruction of the warship could easily be caused by supplying it with faulty maps, or just using an advantage of knowing where to lead it.