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Author Topic: Aviation Pictures Part Trois  (Read 198889 times)

JadeHellbringer

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1470 on: 16 November 2018, 16:46:50 »
Quote from: ANS Kamas P81 on 16 November 2018, 16:40:28
Makes you wonder what it could do with modern engines, doesn't it.

About that...



The Douglas X-3 was an experiment into making an extremely aerodynamic frame go really, really fast (like, Mach 2+). Problem was, the engines it was designed for didn't pan out, and the replacements made for an extremely underpowered aircraft- it couldn't break Mach 1 in a dive, and it needed an extremely long runway for operations. The experiment ended after a mercifully brief career... just in time for the J79 engines used in the F-4 to come along.

Cram a couple of those smoky, powerful bastards in the X-3, and oh what might have been... for what it's worth, a SINGLE J79 was plenty enough to power the similar-shaped F-104 Starfighter to Mach 2 without any trouble, so two of them would have been inefficient, but impressive. Alas, we'll never know.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1471 on: 16 November 2018, 17:55:48 »
Quote from: ANS Kamas P81 on 16 November 2018, 16:40:28
Makes you wonder what it could do with modern engines, doesn't it.
considering that the F-4X Super Phantom (using J79's, minorly modified airframe, and water injection cooling) was able to hit mach3.3+, who knows?

though most engines since that one have focused more on efficiency rather than sheer power, so a more modern engine might not improve flight performance or speed any, but certainly would have improved the range.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1472 on: 16 November 2018, 20:39:30 »
Well, I'd say power's still a major call, considering the J79 pushed 12,000lbs dry and 18,000 in reheat.  Meanwhile the F-119-PW-100s are almost the same size (6 inches shorter, 8 inches higher diameter, and 50 kilos heavier) and punch double that, "greater than" 35,000 pounds in afterburner.

While I mentioned before the general difficulty in re-engining a fighter because of envelope, balance, and placement issues...just imagine a Super Phantom with those onboard.  Then again you'd have to totally change the intake geometry, wing shape, and ruin the gorgeous look of the F-4 Phantom.

...probably have to add in re-entry tiles as well...
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CrossfirePilot

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1473 on: 16 November 2018, 21:50:22 »
Not just a matter of redesigning intakes.  Many times the limitations of a fighters speed isn't that the engine doesn't have the push, its that the airframes cannot handle that push.  I recall reading that the F16 can go faster, but the canopy starts to become a little distorted.  I don't know if the phantom would be able to handle Mach 3.
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Kidd

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1474 on: 17 November 2018, 00:25:07 »
Make it out of steel then. Or go the whole hog and use titanium, make the Super Foxbat a reality!

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Feenix74

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1475 on: 18 November 2018, 04:27:46 »
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Incoming fire has the right of way.

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I am Belch II

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1476 on: 18 November 2018, 04:56:32 »
That is one awesome Heritage Flight.
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Feenix74

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1477 on: 18 November 2018, 04:59:45 »
Hence why I shared  :thumbsup:
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Incoming fire has the right of way.

The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is incoming friendly fire.

Always remember that your weapon was built by the lowest bidder.

                                   - excepts from Murphy's Laws of Combat

Luciora

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1478 on: 18 November 2018, 11:25:06 »
S-3 Tracker under restoration and being displayed at the USS Hornet Museum in Alameda, CA.
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Cannonshop

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1479 on: 18 November 2018, 13:09:29 »
Quote from: ANS Kamas P81 on 16 November 2018, 20:39:30
Well, I'd say power's still a major call, considering the J79 pushed 12,000lbs dry and 18,000 in reheat.  Meanwhile the F-119-PW-100s are almost the same size (6 inches shorter, 8 inches higher diameter, and 50 kilos heavier) and punch double that, "greater than" 35,000 pounds in afterburner.

While I mentioned before the general difficulty in re-engining a fighter because of envelope, balance, and placement issues...just imagine a Super Phantom with those onboard.  Then again you'd have to totally change the intake geometry, wing shape, and ruin the gorgeous look of the F-4 Phantom.

...probably have to add in re-entry tiles as well...

Instead of pushing the top end, I just want you to envision one thing;

Supercruising in an F-4 phantom.  That is, in non-reheat power, cruising at the Phantom's 'reheat' speed.
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worktroll

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1480 on: 18 November 2018, 15:46:34 »
With black smoke, though?
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1481 on: 18 November 2018, 15:48:47 »
Quote from: worktroll on 18 November 2018, 15:46:34
With black smoke, though?
Of course, that's how you get stealthy F-4 Phantoms.  too much smoke to spot them!
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Cannonshop

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1482 on: 18 November 2018, 16:21:21 »
Quote from: ANS Kamas P81 on 18 November 2018, 15:48:47
Of course, that's how you get stealthy F-4 Phantoms.  too much smoke to spot them!

what is this 'stealth' of which you speak?  The point of the double-ugly is NOT to sneak up and drop a couple JDAMs on a babymilk factory in Sudan, but to stun the enemy into inaction with the sudden spike of fear he feels seeing those black contrails coming, knowing he can't do anything to stop them because they fly on sheer brutality and meanness.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1483 on: 18 November 2018, 16:45:33 »
One more for the 4-theme, if someone wants to start that soon?
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worktroll

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1484 on: 18 November 2018, 19:55:18 »
Quote from: Cannonshop on 18 November 2018, 16:21:21
what is this 'stealth' of which you speak?  The point of the double-ugly is NOT to sneak up and drop a couple JDAMs on a babymilk factory in Sudan, but to stun the enemy into inaction with the sudden spike of fear he feels seeing those black contrails coming, knowing he can't do anything to stop them because they fly on sheer brutality and meanness.

I find your argument compelling ...
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* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Weirdo

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1485 on: 18 November 2018, 22:32:28 »
Quote from: ANS Kamas P81 on 18 November 2018, 16:45:33
One more for the 4-theme, if someone wants to start that soon?

That reminds me, I wonder how the modification/restoration work on the one of those they've got down in Galveston...
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beachhead1985

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1486 on: 18 November 2018, 22:56:28 »
Quote from: Weirdo on 18 November 2018, 22:32:28
That reminds me, I wonder how the modification/restoration work on the one of those they've got down in Galveston...

OH! I love the Privateer too!

Whats this about a restoration/modification? Modified to do what?
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truetanker

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1487 on: 18 November 2018, 23:36:42 »
Wished this was real...


Wonder if it could still be a EB-52 Megafortess from Dale Brown's Flight of the Old Dog

TT
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Weirdo

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1488 on: 19 November 2018, 00:33:43 »
Quote from: beachhead1985 on 18 November 2018, 22:56:28
OH! I love the Privateer too!

Whats this about a restoration/modification? Modified to do what?

The museum down there has a Liberator they're slowly restoring/turning into a Privateer.
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grimlock1

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1489 on: 19 November 2018, 09:23:15 »
Quote from: truetanker on 18 November 2018, 23:36:42
Wished this was real...


Wonder if it could still be a EB-52 Megafortess from Dale Brown's Flight of the Old Dog

TT

I haven't thought about the ol' EB-52 Megafortress in a long time!  My first exposure to his work was Battle Born, so the EB-1 is always what I think of first.
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I am Belch II

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1490 on: 19 November 2018, 09:37:34 »
I was told that a New Engine option is on the way for the 35th time for the B-52.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1491 on: 19 November 2018, 10:47:37 »


This thread needed some Rafale.
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Bedwyr

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1492 on: 19 November 2018, 11:04:31 »
Wow. I was struck by the beefy nose gear strut and went off to compare with the F-18 and F-16. The F-16 is stood up on toothpicks.
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Sabelkatten

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1493 on: 19 November 2018, 11:05:50 »
Looks like the naval version?
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Bedwyr

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1494 on: 19 November 2018, 11:10:00 »
Quote from: Sabelkatten on 19 November 2018, 11:05:50
Looks like the naval version?

That's what I was comparing. I'd never really looked before and didn't realize the F-16 was so inky dinky.
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grimlock1

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1495 on: 19 November 2018, 11:24:27 »
Quote from: Bedwyr on 19 November 2018, 11:10:00
That's what I was comparing. I'd never really looked before and didn't realize the F-16 was so inky dinky.

I saw something years ago that interviewed an engineer involved with turning the YF-17 in the F/A-18.  One of the headaches was beefing up that spindly Air Force style landing gear to be carrier worthy, and making it still fit in the same hole.  The engineer's facial expression was saying "FML!"
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Quote from: JadeHellbringer on 19 April 2014, 09:11:17
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Quote from: Jimmyray73 on 23 April 2013, 09:40:07
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

grimlock1

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1496 on: 19 November 2018, 11:31:14 »
Quote from: JadeHellbringer on 19 November 2018, 10:47:37


This thread needed some Rafale.
Is that some kind of EOTS on the bottom lip of the intake?
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I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Quote from: JadeHellbringer on 19 April 2014, 09:11:17
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Quote from: Jimmyray73 on 23 April 2013, 09:40:07
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

Luciora

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1497 on: 19 November 2018, 12:36:55 »
I built a model of one, I found it fascinating among the other bombers.

Quote from: Weirdo on 19 November 2018, 00:33:43
The museum down there has a Liberator they're slowly restoring/turning into a Privateer.
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Luciora

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1498 on: 19 November 2018, 12:37:43 »
That's not the Old Dog?

Quote from: truetanker on 18 November 2018, 23:36:42
Wished this was real...


Wonder if it could still be a EB-52 Megafortess from Dale Brown's Flight of the Old Dog

TT
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chanman

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Re: Aviation Pictures Part Trois
« Reply #1499 on: 19 November 2018, 12:55:01 »
Mind you the, the original premise of "Make a B-52 remotely stealthy" is kind of ludicrous. At best, you'd get the RCS down from "Costco" to maybe "Walmart"
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