Clan Nova Cat - Zombie Catgirl Extravaganza

[Minemech]

 It is better to take that as a product of the chaos and confusion around the move rather than as an objective fact.

[parable]

I can see the note coming into the HPG now, "Dear Clan Nova Cat, thanks for ceding your Kerensky cluster holdings to us in exchange for our helping your Clan survive its abjuration.  Oh and by the way, sorry for attacking your Clan during that selfsame abjuration, things are pretty crazy for all of us right now, you know?  Seriously, our bad.  Sincerely, Clan Snow Raven"

[cmerwin]

I can see the note coming into the HPG now, "Dear Clan Nova Cat, thanks for ceding your Kerensky cluster holdings to us in exchange for our helping your Clan survive its abjuration.  Oh and by the way, sorry for attacking your Clan during that selfsame abjuration, things are pretty crazy for all of us right now, you know?  Seriously, our bad.  Sincerely, Clan Snow Raven"

"Sorry for the 8 million dead. Lol.😂😭"

[Were there emojis on the Chatterweb?]

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I'm sure that the Clans view emojis as a form of contractions.

[parable]

I'm sure that the Clans view emojis as a form of contractions.

I got to thinking about this and I think they'd love them.  We all know the Clans like contractions, just ones that are THEIRS, quiaff?  And in a highly-regimented society, bold, straightforward symbols would be the norm.  MSDS symbols, military hand and arm signals, semaphore, constructivist art, &c.  In fact, I think they'de promote them à la 1984: break emotion down to symbols representing a range in the spectrum, and weed out symbols whose influence you don't want in your society.  No tired faces that look sad, because being tired means you did your duty and should be satisfied with that.  Nothing that even references pregnancy or marriage: yes, it happens, but it shouldn't be normalized and it's a hindrance to Clan superiority.  And so on and so forth.  Add strictures to who can access what based on caste and rank and you have a VERY solid argument that a widespread system of emojis, smileys, and .gifs would be something the Clans, at least the Watch and any leaders worried that the other castes might organize, would very much like to have.

[Metallgewitter]

I'm sure that the Clans view emojis as a form of contractions.

the chatterweb excerpts showed that the chatters were not exactly above using contradictions or even 'lol' to egg each other on. Though no emojis. Maybe the administrators thought that would be too much IS style. Though what emojis might be good? A barbarian face? Surats? A Falcon waving it's wing perhaps?

[tassa_kay]

Emojis are a step too close to real-world nonsense for me, and certainly don't feel very Clan-like (I tend to agree that they'd be akin to contractions in Clan eyes).

[cmerwin]

Emojis are a step too close to real-world nonsense for me, and certainly don't feel very Clan-like (I tend to agree that they'd be akin to contractions in Clan eyes).

Despite being the person to originally pose this question, I agree for the most part that emojis feel un-Clan-like, at least for the Warrior caste.

That said, I think Parable makes a convincing argument for the use of such things among the lower castes as further modifying their language away from that used by the Great Houses. What if the Diamond Sharks created, ala Clan Spaniel, an entire code of symbols for the lower castes (following Metallgewitter's suggestion)? Modifications of military map symbols for use by the technicians and laborers that IntelSer and the Watch could monitor? Cute ways of indoctrinating freeborn children to adhere to Clan values?

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

"Sorry for the 8 million dead. Lol.😂😭"

[Were there emojis on the Chatterweb?]

Definitely

Emojis are the least wasteful method of communication

[tassa_kay]

I mean, until anything even remotely like this idea pops up in canon (and I really hope it doesn't; the very last thing I ever want to see in BattleTech fiction, and especially amongst the Clans, is friggin' emojis), I'm not sure there's an answer for "what if?" here. Hopefully emojis have gone the way of the dodo in the future of BattleTech. Even "lol" in the Chatterweb was immersion breaking to me.

[cmerwin]

I mean, until anything even remotely like this idea pops up in canon (and I really hope it doesn't; the very last thing I ever want to see in BattleTech fiction, and especially amongst the Clans, is friggin' emojis), I'm not sure there's an answer for "what if?" here. Hopefully emojis have gone the way of the dodo in the future of BattleTech. Even "lol" in the Chatterweb was immersion breaking to me.

I think I 100% agree. There's a lot of BattleTech speculation I really enjoy. I like the what if? aspect, I like looking things up, I like reasoning consistently within lore and accounting for differences in the universe and 1000+ years from now. And then some things I think: "No. No friggin' way."

I stand by my defense of Parable's thought process, but I want to move on to more wholesome speculation...

[cmerwin]

This may be a topic that may only be of particular interest to me, but I would love thoughts from others. I've been consistently fascinated by the character of saKhan Lucian Carns (who should have been played by Lance Reddick in any BattleTech film) and I've tried to reason out why. We know a lot about him, in many ways more than we know about many of our other Khans and saKhans (even Leroux).

While it has never been 100% confirmed it is implied that Carns was originally a Clan Wolf Warrior. For purposes of speculation, I am going to accept that as true. So a ristar Bloodnamed Wolf warrior, who tested out of his ToP as a Star Captain, is taken as bondsperson in our Clan, earns his way in to our Warrior ranks, we don't know much of his career as a Nova Cat, but fairly quickly becomes saKhan. For a LONG time. TP: REVIVAL Trials has him as saKhan before the Invasion in 3048. In 3058, at the age of 80 (!!!) he and Leroux score "impressive" victories in their Trials of Position, and along with the other Nova Cat high-command was involved in the Vision Quest to bring us to the 2nd Star League.

I guess what really fascinates me is how does a Wolf ristar so accept and embrace Nova Cat culture that he rises so high? The vast majority of references to Nova Cats in the literature always smirkingly say something like: "Oh, the Nova Cats? They're ...different." But clearly Carns was able to completely embody our culture and rise to the top.

Asking myself this question about Carns then led me to wonder, what other Clans would do well as Nova Cat bondsmen? And which wouldn't?

[Minemech]

 He could have been an ailurophile the whole time. Perhaps even an odd duck from the get-go.

[parable]

Cloud Cobra and Nova Cat took each other as bondsmen enough that there's a Nova Cat mystic cloister of the Cloud Cobras (Rossei) and a Galaxy of Nova Cats (Xi) that largely adheres to said cloister's beliefs, so there's some proof that the two Clans were culturally close enough that their bondsmen could integrate.  I'd imagine that a Nova Cat could do worse than Goliath Scorpion: mysticism, visions of the future, a love of and knack for sharpshooting, &c.  Of course, they'd basically have to pick up a drug addiction.  The reverse might work, but I doubt any Clan would take a bondsman who will immediately go into withdrawal.

[cmerwin]

He could have been an ailurophile the whole time. Perhaps even an odd duck from the get-go.

Agreed, but in most clans, odd-ducks aren't that accomplished before they are taken bondsmen. There's no reason not to think he wouldn't have become at least a Star Colonel if he had remained in Wolf (and maybe only that, but still) and then somehow shoots up through our ranks too.

I agree with you, there is a large part that is certainly his particular personality, but I think there's also a question of "fit".

Also, outstanding use of ailurophile. Ailuronovisphilis? My Latin declensions are rusty.

[Minemech]

Agreed, but in most clans, odd-ducks aren't that accomplished before they are taken bondsmen. There's no reason not to think he wouldn't have become at least a Star Colonel if he had remained in Wolf (and maybe only that, but still) and then somehow shoots up through our ranks too.

I agree with you, there is a large part that is certainly his particular personality, but I think there's also a question of "fit".

Also, outstanding use of ailurophile. ? My Latin declensions are rusty.

There always could have been a backhanded deal involved, for fear that he might have made it to at least Galaxy Commander in Clan Wolf. In the Clans, the cultural barriers vs internal politicking vs competence is a thing. In the Ravens for instance outsiders would never make it high due to the cultural barriers and internal politicking. He could have been too out there for even Clan Wolf.

 As for Ailuronovisphilis, we can treat it as an irregular loanword. That way it fits him.

[parable]

I've been consistently fascinated by the character of saKhan Lucian Carns (who should have been played by Lance Reddick in any BattleTech film)

First point: Is Lucian Carns not Lance Reddick(RIP)?

But on the topic of "who would do well as Nova Cat bondsmen?" I have a simple answer: anyone who fears being solahma.  Phillip Drummond was the longest-lived of the original Khans: at 77, after outliving his daughter and overcoming ALS or MS or thereabouts, trialed back into Warrior and became the third Nova Cat Khan until his death (I think of natural causes?) at 112.  Vlad Ward teased Marthe Pryde about her age by suggesting she join the Nova Cats (until our abjuration took the humor from it).  I mean, in the great refusal, IIRC the Nova Cats took only 2 casualties to beat the entire Ice Hellion detachment: Lucian Carns and his Khan, Severen Leroux (82 years old at the time).

If you're near 30 and not bloodnamed or favored by someone, you're looking at a future of garrison duty and suicide charges--against dark caste, lucrewarriors, pirates--not even real opponents.  You're taken as a bondsman by Clan Nova Cat.  The one clan that doesn't see age as an albatross or millstone around your neck.  The one that,  quelle surprise, views experience and age as assets, not liabilities.  Would you care that they mostly see age as a benefit because of how it allows them to refine their mystical visions?  Would you point out that a large part of their refusal to go out in one's prime, in a blaze of glory, is simply due to a quirk of their history and their 1st/3rd Khan?  I sure wouldn't.  I'd buckle down, get on board, and thank the Kerenskys that I had an opportunity to, when most Clans would mark me solahma and cannon fodder, become something of a ristar once more.

Add in how thinly stretched Clan Nova Cat was after their abjuration--even if you'd never get a bloodname (no Nova Cat genes, and you're not likely getting a reply from your home bloodhouse), you still might be slotted into a front-line formation as a full-fledged Nova Cat Warrior.

A better deal than being made bondsman by most other Clans, I'd say.

[tassa_kay]

I wouldn’t take a handful of cherry-picked, and admittedly exceptional, examples of aged warriors in important positions as any sort of modus operandi. Per FM:Comstar (page 109, if you want a specific reference), the Nova Cats put warriors into solahma units just like every other Clan does. And we’ve seen lots of examples over the last decade or so of publication (ER3145 and FM3145) of bondsmen from other Clans and even Inner Sphere powers (the Ravens have a former Combine bondsman commanding a frontline Cluster, and Jake Kabrinski rose from bondsman to Khan of his new Clan) to show that the Nova Cats aren’t even remotely unique or exceptional in this regard. And frankly, given the Cats’ downward spiral post-Refusal, I think there’s a case to be made that the Cats are the last Clan one might want to end up as a bondsman. They end up beholden to an Inner Sphere power that not only costs them their autonomy, but eventually their very lives.

[parable]

Fair enough.  I suppose I took Vlad Ward's needling of Marthe Pryde on its face more than I should've--I suppose I saw it as "well, there's this one oddball Clan that doesn't care about age" versus a reading of "hey, join the oddball Clan that has a couple ancient Warriors, you might fit in with them."  Which, now that I put it in words, feels like it hews to the latter.  That said, it does seem that age is at least less of a concern among the Nova Cats.  All else, I will concede.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

You also need to remember that warriors aren't forced into being solahama troops, they can request to be transferred to one of civilian castes (or police units or maybe Watch?) if they don't like the idea of going out in combat

Majority simply sees it as huge dishonor

Obstacle is cultural not legal

[cmerwin]

That said, it does seem that age is at least less of a concern among the Nova Cats.  All else, I will concede.

I think you are safe in saying, and correct when you suggested previously, that age is seen in the Nova Cats with value. Our Khans stay as Khans as long as many Warriors have careers. Khan Drummond: Khan for 50 years. Khan Leroux: Khan for 25 years (in his 80s at death, which if I am correct, means he became Khan when he was over 50). Khan West: Khan for 38 years. There is a weird exception with Khan Abram Radick given that we don't know when Khan Radick became Khan. It seems likely that between Drummond and Radick there were other Khans.

This isn't to say that other Clans don't have Khans who reigned for decades, but we seem to have few Khans but for longer periods. I don't know if I would go so far as to say that it is official Clan modus operandi, but it is clear that age in leaders in the Nova Cats is seen as a benefit.

As for Nova Cat solahma units, I am sure they are full of young and old warriors alike. Age alone does not keep you an active duty Star Captain or Star Colonel, being exceptional does. But Clan Nova Cat doesn't forcibly retire exceptional warriors just because of their age.

I would agree with Tassa that by the time we get to the Inner Sphere, the Nova Cats are probably the last Clan a Clanner would want to be made a bondsperson to, I would imagine bondsref to be very high for anyone taken by the Nova Cats post-Abjuration.

[cmerwin]

If you're near 30 and not bloodnamed or favored by someone, you're looking at a future of garrison duty and suicide charges--against dark caste, lucrewarriors, pirates--not even real opponents.  You're taken as a bondsman by Clan Nova Cat.  The one clan that doesn't see age as an albatross or millstone around your neck.  The one that,  quelle surprise, views experience and age as assets, not liabilities.  Would you care that they mostly see age as a benefit because of how it allows them to refine their mystical visions?  Would you point out that a large part of their refusal to go out in one's prime, in a blaze of glory, is simply due to a quirk of their history and their 1st/3rd Khan?  I sure wouldn't.  I'd buckle down, get on board, and thank the Kerenskys that I had an opportunity to, when most Clans would mark me solahma and cannon fodder, become something of a ristar once more.

I don't think this would be the norm, Clan culture is too ingrained for that to be the norm, rather than the exception.
That said, it would make for a really cool character in a story! I'd love to see a "redeamed" old time rise back through the ranks praising their new Clan for giving them the chance no one else would.

(And yes, technically this is what happened to Trent, but Trent was always a Jaguar, and it is clear that Khan Leroux already knew of Inanna Nova Cat's Visions and formulated an elaborate plan when he severed Trent's bondcord).

[tassa_kay]

As for Nova Cat solahma units, I am sure they are full of young and old warriors alike. Age alone does not keep you an active duty Star Captain or Star Colonel, being exceptional does. But Clan Nova Cat doesn't forcibly retire exceptional warriors just because of their age.

Why would a solahma unit have young warriors in its ranks? They are by definition made up of old and/or dying warriors. And if the Nova Cats didn’t retire their rank-and-file warriors, they wouldn’t have solahma units to begin with.

I think you’re reading a bit too much into the fact that the Nova Cats have some codgers in leadership positions, which again is not unique to them. Lynn McKenna held her Khanship until she was 89. James Cobb held his until he was 80, and he died in his sleep. Aletha Kabribski was Khan at 81 and was losing her mental faculties.

It seems to me that respected Khans remain in their roles until they’re challenged for them and lose regardless of their Clan… or they die in battle. Rank-and-file warriors simply aren’t going to be given that same sort of consideration, and there’s nothing in canon to suggest that the Cats are any different in this regard.

[Istal_Devalis]

I wouldn’t take a handful of cherry-picked, and admittedly exceptional, examples of aged warriors in important positions as any sort of modus operandi. Per FM:Comstar (page 109, if you want a specific reference), the Nova Cats put warriors into solahma units just like every other Clan does.

FM:Comstar (p 107) also says "...Even among the Nova Cats, who allow their warriors to remain in active service much longer then other Clans...." so there's something to it. What we dont know is what this means in practical terms. Are we talking 5 years? 10? Is it limited to just command positions?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I remember a line in Prince of Havoc where Victor met the Nova Cat Khans and was surprised by their ages.  One of them said something about how the Cats didn't hold age in such disdain as the other Clans.

[Alan Grant]

If I had to guess (and this is just that, my speculation), it's that they've de-emphasized age as a number more in favor of other factors. The warrior's battlefield skills, the warrior's health, their ability to maintain the standards set by the Clan, which again might emphasize factors other than age.

It really does feel like for some other Clans, age is a prime consideration. Trent was sent to Huntress in his 30s, and he was all but convinced he would be relegated to second-line or solahma status and not be sent back to the OZ because of it. Considerations like his skills as a warrior seemed not to matter. So for the Smoke Jags, age was a top-line consideration.

For the Nova Cats, it might just be de-emphasized in favor of other metrics.

[Metallgewitter]

It probably depnds on the warrior and Clan. For example in the 2nd novel of the Kerensky bloodline trilogy Phelan joined a game of Lacrosse and Vlad had one of the players who had just turned 30 give Phelan his equipment. Said warrior stated he was already on the decline and had to obey the "superior" Vlad. At the same time Ulric stated he waited until the right bloodname was open despite him being in his mid-thirties (I think) when he finally got it. I would assume it is a combination of things. For example if you are perhaps slightly above 30 and have no real acheivement to your name you are probably on the short end for relegation. But others (like Ulric) who have achievements and maybe even had opportunities for bloodname trials gain a bit more "life" on the frontlines.I would assume that Clans like the Adders and Cats are perhaps more accomodating to older warriors. The Adders are pragmatists and most likely value experienced warriors more over younger ones and the Cats most likely value the insight age produces. Insight which might help to understand visions. And let's not forget the Nova Cat Khans handily won the required trial to confirm their Kahn positions (the trial that is demanded by the Clan council)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

If I had to guess (and this is just that, my speculation), it's that they've de-emphasized age as a number more in favor of other factors. The warrior's battlefield skills, the warrior's health, their ability to maintain the standards set by the Clan, which again might emphasize factors other than age.

It really does feel like for some other Clans, age is a prime consideration. Trent was sent to Huntress in his 30s, and he was all but convinced he would be relegated to second-line or solahma status and not be sent back to the OZ because of it. Considerations like his skills as a warrior seemed not to matter. So for the Smoke Jags, age was a top-line consideration.

For the Nova Cats, it might just be de-emphasized in favor of other metrics.

In the case of Trent, there was also the issues that he'd failed at getting a bloodname at least once (due to sabotage), had no sponsor from his Bloodhouse or other political allies left, and Paul Moon was actively trying to get rid of all the Tukayyid veterans in his unit.

[cmerwin]

In the case of Trent, there was also the issues that he'd failed at getting a bloodname at least once (due to sabotage), had no sponsor from his Bloodhouse or other political allies left, and Paul Moon was actively trying to get rid of all the Tukayyid veterans in his unit.

It will be interesting to see if the new Smoke Jaguars attitudes about age change now, given that he is now the longest lived known Clan trueborn and married to a Nova Cat.

[Istal_Devalis]

If I had to guess (and this is just that, my speculation), it's that they've de-emphasized age as a number more in favor of other factors. The warrior's battlefield skills, the warrior's health, their ability to maintain the standards set by the Clan, which again might emphasize factors other than age.

For the Nova Cats, it might just be de-emphasized in favor of other metrics.

That's sorta my opinion on the matter. Age does matter, but only as it applies to the natural degradation of physical and mental facilities as you get older. So long as you can pass your Trials, you're fine. There is no inherent bias over your age just BECAUSE of your age. But if you start losing Trials...

Sort of a natural outgrowth of the 'If it works, use it' Nova Cat mentality there. So long as they're doing the job and no one better is taking their place, why get rid of them for a marginal 'you're this old' number.

Relatedly, also my opinion, but I expect you're more likely to get needed surgeries to prolong you combat lifespan, and not be passed over for younger pilots, just because they're younger.