Author Topic: Mechwarrior 2nd Edition Archtypes (Read 11882 times)

Lagomorph · « **on:** 21 January 2013, 00:38:03 »

Hey all! One of my favorite little bits of Battletech/Mechwarrior over the years were the character archetypes for mechwarrior 2nd edition. These were great not only for pumping out PCs quickly, but they were great for NPC ideas and for tweaking original PC ideas. I'd like to put together an archive of all those character archetypes and, ultimately, collect physical copies of the books, magazines, etc. However, I don't know all the books that had the archetypes and what those archetypes are. Does anyone out there have a complete list of archetypes (with or without stats) that were put out for 2nd edition? Official sources are mainly what I'm seeking, but if there were any in Battletechnology or any other "semi-official" publications, let me know.

nerd · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 January 2013, 01:23:35 »

There was the "Explorer MechWarrior" in Explorer Corps, but nothing in the early FM's. I don't have any of my old source books anywhere nearby.

SteelRaven · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 January 2013, 01:35:26 »

Solaris: The Reaches had a few extra Archtypes in it like wash up mechwarrior

Nav_Alpha · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 January 2013, 01:37:48 »

MW: 2 roleplaying book had half a dozen i think. As did the Chaos March hand book (from memory, it was Dispossessed merc, partisan fighter, merchant, merc administrator/negotiator and a few others. Same with the Role playing supplement (tanker, Crusader mechwarrior, Elemental, etc)

guardiandashi · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 January 2013, 02:03:00 »

mechwarrior 2nd edition main book fasa 1641
had starting with pg 33
mechwarrior bounty hunter
mechwarrior grizzled veteran
mechwarrior hotshot
mechwarrior house regular
mechwarrior hulking brute
mechwarrior scoundrel
mechwarrior technophile
mechwarrior young noble
clan primary mechwarrior
clan secondary mechwarrior
clan elemental
clan pilot
aerojock
free trader
scout
tech

mechwarrior companion fasa book 1671
has
starting pg 27
IS archetypes
armored infantry trooper
dropship captain
guerrilla fighter
marine
special forces operative
tanker

clan archetypes
crusader elemental
crusader mechwarrior
dropship/jumpship pilot
merchant
scientist
technician

I can look for more but ...

SCC · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 January 2013, 03:13:56 »

Why would you need that many types of MW? And "mechwarrior technophile" that's going to be a problem given that you bog is to pilot one of the most advanced pieces of tech know to man

Nav_Alpha · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 January 2013, 03:46:57 »

Quote from: SCC on 21 January 2013, 03:13:56

Why would you need that many types of MW? And "mechwarrior technophile" that's going to be a problem given that you bog is to pilot one of the most advanced pieces of tech know to man

The technophile was pretty cool actually - ok-ish mech pilot and gunner with a very good technician an repair set of skills. Almost zero charisma but extremely intelligent. I ran a fun mw2 campaign that involved a lance consisting of "grizzled vet" (npc lance commander who I ran as well as gm'ing) plus one guy playing a uber-hunk of a beefcake mechjock who was bascially in the military to pick up chicks and sucked as a gunner or a pilot, an ex-FRR Amazonian lass who was a sort of pseudo-bounty hunter and the technophile who seemed to spend most of his time getting picked on and teased by the other two player characters.

guardiandashi · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 January 2013, 04:04:14 »

Quote from: SCC on 21 January 2013, 03:13:56

Why would you need that many types of MW? And "mechwarrior technophile" that's going to be a problem given that you bog is to pilot one of the most advanced pieces of tech know to man

you have the definition confused

I believe you are thinking of technophobe not technophile

technophobe is a person who doesn't like or is afraid of technology

technophile is the "techno geek or nerd" the person who's social skills stink, and would rather spend time recalibrating the tracking of the main weapon for the 47th time this month, than go to a bar and have a couple drinks with his friends, oh wait he doesn't have many (any) friends.

Lagomorph · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 January 2013, 04:24:35 »

Thanks all. I was aware of all these so far, but don't stop bringing them...

I know off the top of my head there was also:

The Periphery
-Bandit caste Mechwarrior
-Pirate Mechwarrior
-Colonial Marshal
-Lostech Treasure Hunter

Alright, we've got a good list going so far. I know there were some in issues of Mech Magazine, the official fanclub publication... The MW adventure Bloodright had a few too, but they were, I believe reprinted in the MW Companion. The Comstar book and the Intellegence operations guide had some as well. Any that were in Mech magazine I'd be especially interested in seeing (heck if anyone know where I could findd old issues of Mech, let me know).

Fear Factory · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 January 2013, 12:16:21 »

Side note: I love MechWarrior 2nd Edition. {>{>

TheOldDragoon · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 January 2013, 18:55:26 »

MW2e remains the easiest, most accessible version of MechWarrior for running a campaign where one doesn't want to use a spreadsheet to keep track of PCs (AToW, I'm looking at YOU) or fiddle with half-points or quarter points of damage (once again, AToW...)

My first and biggest quibble with the system was that Average Joe with all stats of 3 would have to roll 10+ against any skill he had two levels in, and by the skill packages we can see that a skill of 2 is supposed to be fairly respectable. This is due to the math that makes target numbers 18-(Stat1+Stat2), and also allows people to pump points into stats (especially ITN) to make God-Mode characters out of the gate.

What we did as a house rule was change the formula to 12-AVG(Stat1,Stat2) rounding the average down. There's still issues with people dumping points into stats, but non-optimized characters aren't as boned as they once were...

Oh, and archetypes are the bomb. They really do help get things rolling quickly.

Nav_Alpha · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 January 2013, 19:47:01 »

Quote from: TheOldDragoon on 21 January 2013, 18:55:26

MW2e remains the easiest, most accessible version of MechWarrior for running a campaign where one doesn't want to use a spreadsheet to keep track of PCs (AToW, I'm looking at YOU) or fiddle with half-points or quarter points of damage (once again, AToW...)

My first and biggest quibble with the system was that Average Joe with all stats of 3 would have to roll 10+ against any skill he had two levels in, and by the skill packages we can see that a skill of 2 is supposed to be fairly respectable. This is due to the math that makes target numbers 18-(Stat1+Stat2), and also allows people to pump points into stats (especially ITN) to make God-Mode characters out of the gate.

What we did as a house rule was change the formula to 12-AVG(Stat1,Stat2) rounding the average down. There's still issues with people dumping points into stats, but non-optimized characters aren't as boned as they once were...

I've had a couple groups that have rolled up some uber good characters right from the get go. It was pretty easy and could lead to unbalanced characters.

That said, it was an easy enough system to use and teach

Paul · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 January 2013, 20:53:18 »

Quote from: TheOldDragoon on 21 January 2013, 18:55:26

MW2e remains the easiest, most accessible version of MechWarrior for running a campaign where one doesn't want to use a spreadsheet to keep track of PCs (AToW, I'm looking at YOU)

Agreed, although that's not much of an obstacle to me. The math is mindnumbingly easy compared to MW3, so I just prefer it to list stuff.

Quote

or fiddle with half-points or quarter points of damage (once again, AToW...)

There are no half or quarter points of damage in ATOW.

Paul

Quote

My first and biggest quibble with the system was that Average Joe with all stats of 3 would have to roll 10+ against any skill he had two levels in, and by the skill packages we can see that a skill of 2 is supposed to be fairly respectable. This is due to the math that makes target numbers 18-(Stat1+Stat2), and also allows people to pump points into stats (especially ITN) to make God-Mode characters out of the gate.

?
You're doing a couple of things wrong, it seems, but I may be misunderstanding your intent.
Each skill has a Target Number based on the nature of the skill. This will be either 7, 8 or 9.
Let's take a skill with TN 8, say, Sensor Operations. If both INT WIL are 3, you suffer a -1 to your roll for each of those. Your skill is +2, so you suffer a net +0 to your skill check. An 8 or better and the job is done.
When you add that gear and circumstances can sometimes have a positive effect, this entry-level operator (who's not the sharpest or most patient tool in the shed) will still get many tasks done.
Never mind that some tasks are so trivial, a GM might not even demand a check.

Going with Attributes only isn't as powerful as you think, given that you're only supposed to use Attribute checks for stuff *NOT* covered by Skills. So, your INT8/WIL8 guy will still have to resolve Sensor Operations as an Untrained check.

Quote

What we did as a house rule was change the formula to 12-AVG(Stat1,Stat2) rounding the average down. There's still issues with people dumping points into stats, but non-optimized characters aren't as boned as they once were...

Not sure how that math improves anything?

Quote

Oh, and archetypes are the bomb. They really do help get things rolling quickly.

I gather no one likes the ones in ATOW. ;)

Paul

Kit deSummersville · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 January 2013, 21:14:21 »

Quote from: Paul on 21 January 2013, 20:53:18

?
You're doing a couple of things wrong, it seems, but I may be misunderstanding your intent.
Each skill has a Target Number based on the nature of the skill. This will be either 7, 8 or 9.
Let's take a skill with TN 8, say, Sensor Operations. If both INT WIL are 3, you suffer a -1 to your roll for each of those. Your skill is +2, so you suffer a net +0 to your skill check. An 8 or better and the job is done.

I think he's talking about MW2 in that part of his post. MW2 was all about having good stats.

Nav_Alpha · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 January 2013, 22:24:22 »

Quote from: Paul on 21 January 2013, 20:53:18

I gather no one likes the ones in ATOW. ;)

I was a big fan of the new crop of templates in ATOW. Interesting to see that the ones in the follow up ATOW companion book were essentially the ones from the original MW2 book recycled - ie: Grizzled vet, hot shot, etc.
That was good work - glad to see these guys get another go.

also, I certainly appreciated the art work of the ATOW characters!

Paul · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 January 2013, 22:47:08 »

Quote from: Kit deSummersville on 21 January 2013, 21:14:21

I think he's talking about MW2 in that part of his post. MW2 was all about having good stats.

Ah, yes, now I see. My mistake...

Lagomorph · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 January 2013, 06:41:55 »

What was great about the 2ed archetypes (and the system in general) is how compact they were. A quick glance at the page and you can see what the character is about.

Keep'em coming if you have them.

kuttsinister7 · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 January 2013, 06:51:19 »

Does it seem that 2nd Ed was easier to build characters and run them?

Kit deSummersville · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 January 2013, 08:47:07 »

Quote from: Paul on 21 January 2013, 22:47:08

Ah, yes, now I see. My mistake...

Yes, and that's why you are the emergency back-up assistant line developer and I write Boondoggles.

I think.

guardiandashi · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 January 2013, 12:35:16 »

Quote from: kuttsinister7 on 22 January 2013, 06:51:19

Does it seem that 2nd Ed was easier to build characters and run them?

hands down 2nd edition was IMO the easiest system to create chars, they were also very easy likely to turn 1 dimenstional but it was a trade off of the system.

3rd edition had several major issues 1 an excessivly complex char creation system, power/module/skill creep, getting too far from the battletech board game resolution dice etc

4th edition aka atow still has issues with char generation but most of the other issues are resolved / under better control. sure the resolution system may be slightly counter intuitive (compared to the board game) but its not that bad, some of the worst power creep issues are negated or removed by making modules zero net things etc

SteelRaven · « **Reply #20 on:** 22 January 2013, 16:17:39 »

It really depends on how you run the game. AToW allows for a very deep game but I know a guy who pulled this off with the BESM system (granted, this was allot more comical) Ether way; if you want a deep character, you will have to work for it and the AToW system accounts for the work for some of us who do not have the narrative skills some times.

Paul · « **Reply #21 on:** 22 January 2013, 16:51:40 »

...or just use point-based chargen. I guess I should .sig that.

mechwarriorgarya · « **Reply #22 on:** 23 January 2013, 20:23:43 »

Very much a fan of Mechwarrior 2nd Edition. ATOW is great but I'm not huge on the roleplaying aspect, and MW2E works well for providing a little extra detail for main characters during a campaign.

Quote from: Nav_Alpha on 21 January 2013, 01:37:48

MW: 2 roleplaying book had half a dozen i think. As did the Chaos March hand book (from memory, it was Dispossessed merc, partisan fighter, merchant, merc administrator/negotiator and a few others. Same with the Role playing supplement (tanker, Crusader mechwarrior, Elemental, etc)

I believe that dispossessed merc is actually Wayward Mechwarrior

Deadborder · « **Reply #23 on:** 24 January 2013, 19:08:17 »

To me, MW2 was nice (and a trillion times better then MW1...) but it also tended to create very "bare bones" characters with little to no life to them. ATOW's feel more "fleshed out" and alive then MW2's.

Still, I'd play it over MW3 any day

TheOldDragoon · « **Reply #24 on:** 25 January 2013, 11:19:42 »

Quote from: Kit deSummersville on 21 January 2013, 21:14:21

I think he's talking about MW2 in that part of his post. MW2 was all about having good stats.

Indeed I was, Kit. And yes, ME2 was all about good stats. Our attempted math fix doesn't fix the God Character problem, but it does fix how totally useless someone with average stats seemed to be.

As for half-points and quarter-points, I was referring to the MoS component in the damage rules for AToW. I can see what the designers were going for with the penetration, base damage, and add for margin of success. It does what it sets out to do - but for many of our players it seems counter-intuitive. They'd rather roll 2D6 for an auto-pistol and call it a day. AToW may be more "realistic" but an older, simpler rules set seems more playable for our group. Bear in mind we have players from 15-42, and our average club days have about 12-15 people any or all of whom could opt to be in the roleplay that day. With that many people in an RP session, simplicity becomes paramount.

Paul · « **Reply #25 on:** 25 January 2013, 11:51:59 »

Quote from: TheOldDragoon on 25 January 2013, 11:19:42

Indeed I was, Kit. And yes, ME2 was all about good stats.

Gotcha, my mistake. Sorry.

Quote

As for half-points and quarter-points, I was referring to the MoS component in the damage rules for AToW. I can see what the designers were going for with the penetration, base damage, and add for margin of success. It does what it sets out to do - but for many of our players it seems counter-intuitive. They'd rather roll 2D6 for an auto-pistol and call it a day.

I'm not sure I get this.
In both systems, you roll 2d6 and call it a day.
[Edit: actually, that's not true. In MW2, you have to follow that up with another dice roll depending on the damage the weapon does. So 1 more step than ATOW.]

In ATOW you may get 1 or 2 bonus damage based on your roll, reflecting your ability to strike vulnerable points, either as a consequence of skill or luck.
There are no quarter points of damage. If your weapon does 4 damage, and you roll a MOS of 1, you do 4 damage. Not 5, and not 4.25. You never do quarter or half points of damage.

Paul

Hellraiser · « **Reply #26 on:** 25 January 2013, 12:08:53 »

I agree, MW2E was hands down the easiest & simplest quick start ability of the RPGs.

While I got my start with MW1E in 3025 timeline back in the 80's, I have found 2E is very good for creating NPCs for 1st, 2nd, or 3rd editions. It was just a quick easy way to get 2D6 target #s for anyone. As mentioned it is easy to create characters that range from Noob Green to Uber Elites all based on some quick attribute & skill swaps. Its not exactly realistic but it is quick & easy & very useful for NPCs.

We used it for our 3050 Clan campaign in the 90's.

Lagomorph · « **Reply #27 on:** 27 January 2013, 04:08:01 »

Alright. Here's a master list of MW 2ed. archetypes. Let's add to it if we can find anymore.

Mechwarrior 2nd edition main book Fasa 1641
-mechwarrior bounty hunter
-mechwarrior grizzled veteran
-mechwarrior hotshot
-mechwarrior house regular
-mechwarrior hulking brute
-mechwarrior scoundrel
-mechwarrior technophile
-mechwarrior young noble
-clan primary mechwarrior
-clan secondary mechwarrior
-clan elemental
-clan pilot
-aerojock
-free trader
-scout
-tech

Mechwarrior Companion Fasa 1671
-armored infantry trooper
-dropship captain
-guerrilla fighter
-marine
-special forces operative
-tanker
-crusader elemental
-crusader mechwarrior
-dropship/jumpship pilot
-merchant
-scientist
-technician

Solaris: The Reaches Fasa 1659
-Media Representitive
-Gang Member
-Washed-Up mechwarrior

Chaos March Fasa 1688
-March Trader
-Guerrilla Fighter
-Wayward Mechwarrior
-Broker

The Periphery Fasa 1692
-Bandit Caste Mechwarrior
-Colonial Marshal
-Privateer Mechwarrior
-Prospector

Explorer Corps Fasa 1681
-Explorer Mechwarrior

Bloodright Fasa 1666
-Technician Caste
-Scientist Caste
-Dropship/Jumpship Pilot

Comstar Fasa 1655
-Comstar News Bureau Investigative Reporter
-Comstar ROM Agent
-True Believer Mechwarrior
-Word of Blake Toyama/ROM Agent

Intellegilgence Operations Handbook Fasa 1673
-Clan Field Agent
-Covert Operations Operative
-Counter-Intelligence Operative
-Deep-Cover Operative
-Liason/Diplomatic Corpse Operative
-Rouge Operative
-Special Forces Operative
-Survelliance Operative

Mech Magazine Volume 1 Issue 4
-Mechwarrior: Daredevil

Mech Magazine Volume 2 Issue 6
-Mechwarrior: Struggling Mercenary

Mech Magazine Volume 2 Issue 8
-Vehicle Commander

Alright. Those are all the ones I have access to. Does anyone know any I missed? If anyone out there has access to copies of Mech magazine, let me know as I suspect there quite a few archetypes in those issues.

rocqueforte · « **Reply #28 on:** 29 January 2013, 08:53:00 »

Null Set FASA 1672
- Agent (Note: as in Mercenary contract agent, as opposed to "Bond, James Bond" :) )
- Bartender
- Bodyguard
- Boss
- Doctor
- Law Officer (cop)
- Lawyer
- Scrounger
- Southside Locals (Note: basic blue-collar workers)
- Young Pros

The adventure packs Living Legends (FASA 1646), Unbound (FASA 1656), Royalty and Rogues (FASA 1676) and other such packs from the early to mid-90's did also contain quite a few NPC write-ups. While these write-ups were not full blown archetypes, they did at least list the attributes, characteristics, skills and equipment for the relevant NPC (and sometimes also provided a sentence or two describing the NPC). For example, Living Legends has the the attributes, characteristics, skills and equipment for a "standard" Clan Warship Security Guard on page 12.

Lagomorph · « **Reply #29 on:** 29 January 2013, 15:49:55 »

Thanks! I forgot Null Set had some. Keep'em coming, folks!