BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => General BattleTech Discussion => Topic started by: wildkadabra on 30 May 2020, 18:15:59
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Just a fun little poll to see in more recent days which factions remain or have become favorites and the opposite as well, which ones remain rather unpopular or have fallen out of grace.
No right or wrong answers, just choose your favorite! :D
Feel free to also tell us why you think that faction is the best if you wish!
Forgive me if I forgot a faction (there are a ton!) or didn't include yours, feel free to vote under Other and tell us which one!
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Although I have grown very fond of WoB as well... >:D
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I find it humorous that we've got ever dead clan imaginable in here including those like Widowmaker & Mongoose that are basically historical footnotes, but all the Periphery powers got lumped together! ;D
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Definitely Ghost Bear (Elementals for dayyyyyyyyyyyys), but ComStar and the Steel Vipers are in close second and third place.
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I've always been loyal to the FedSuns and Ghost Bears for IS and Clan choices but in the current era with Fortress Republic having just come out and about to step into the chaos of ilClan I am all for the Republic. With characters such as Mason Dunne and Janella Lakewood, it is a very cool faction on the brink of death. With Devlin Stone having ended the WoB during the Jihad and them being allied with FedSuns, they just come off as the best of the good guys. My personal hope is that the clan at Terra is the Ghost Bears, invited by Stone to help him hold Terra against the Falcons and Wolves. I would love seeing the Republic, FedSuns, and Ghost Bears all fighting together against common foes. (Maybe they can wipe out the dracs)
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team dumpsterfire 4 life
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Four way tie between merc, Clan Hell's Horses, the Capellan Confederation and the Word of Blake, but since I could only vote for one, I went Horsies cuz they need some love.
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Word of Blake. Nothing like the casual glassing of planets in a fun-filled evening of button smashing in order to reform the Star League and destroy the Clans once and for all.
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Cast my vote for the Lyrans. With the FWL coming in a close second for the Inner Sphere.
Clanwise, it's the Star Adders, Ghost Bears, and Goliath Scorpions all tied.
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team dumpsterfire 4 life
Which one is that, I wonder?
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A toss-up between Clan Wolf and Clan Ghost Bear, but came down for Clan Wolf since they've been on the cutting edge of Clan history from time immemorial. But the Ghost Bears, FRR and Rasalhague Dominion have always been an equal second on my favourites list.
Other favourites in no particular order
Clans: Hell's Horses, Star Adder, Smoke Jaguar, Cloud Cobra, Sea Fox/Diamond Shark
Houses: Steiner, Marik, Kurita.
If the Clans as a whole civilization were an option, I would've voted for that.
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Which one is that, I wonder?
we have several going at once
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The Free Worlder in me is miffed that Principality of Regulus wasn't an option.
So I voted by proxy.
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I find it humorous that we've got ever dead clan imaginable in here including those like Widowmaker & Mongoose that are basically historical footnotes, but all the Periphery powers got lumped together! ;D
While I would not have voted for them, my favorite periphery powers were the Illyrian Palatinate, Circinus Federation, and Nueva Castile. They all have something in common. At least Illyria is now part of the state I voted for. My favorite clan merged with a periphery power, so that is also something.
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Lothian League forever! :D
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Lothian League forever! :D
Hansa, and the Lothian League are okay in my book.
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Really depends on the era. I god my start with MechWarrior 2 and the Blood of Kerensky trilogy so I have been a fan of Clan Wolf and Clan Wolf in Exile for awhile but Fasa didn't do too much with them as a faction following the Refusal War.
Otherwise play Mercenaries for the IS. Mercs always felt like a less stiff than the Neo-feudal structure of the great houses and gives you more opportunities.
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Wolverines, the one true rebels whose mysteries continue to give.
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Other
There is no FedCom in this poll
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Hanse and Melissa, simultaneously: BY OUR POWERS COMBINED...
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What? No Society?!
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I feel like you can tell forum demographics have shifted very strongly in that the FWL is leading this poll right now! ;D Hat's off to the Leaguers, you guys are nothing if not dedicated!
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Eridani Light Horse....
so Other Merc?
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While it is still early and the sample is still small, I will admit I did not realize that the FWL was that popular, in fact for some reason I thought it was one of the least popular IS houses! So to all you leaguers I'm interested to know, what makes the FWL so appealing to you? :)
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we are sustained purely by spite and self-loathing.
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While it is still early and the sample is still small, I will admit I did not realize that the FWL was that popular, in fact for some reason I thought it was one of the least popular IS houses! So to all you leaguers I'm interested to know, what makes the FWL so appealing to you? :)
I can't speak for everyone else, but I like that the FWL is the non-crazy underdog in the setting, and that its form of government makes for a lot of freedom in roleplay as it's the most nominally free of the Successor States At least up till Thomas "TOTALLY NOT A BODY DOUBLE FOR THE MASTER" Halas gets in there... (Obligatory joke: A FWL and Combine citizen are talking. The FWL citizen says, "you know what I like about the FWL? I can go to Atreus, stamp my foot on the steps of Parliament and shout that I don't like the way that Janos Marik is running the League." The Combine citizen replies "It's the same for me. I can go to Luthien, stamp my foot on the steps of the Forbidden City, and shout that I don't like the way Janos Marik is running the League.")
Besides, the League has the Awesome, one of my favorite 'Mechs.
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My favorite "faction" is a tiny scrappy underdog just trying to get by and make their world a better place. And maybe sell some arms to their neighbors.... 😁.
The Fiefdom of Randi's.
I like underdogs. I also like any faction not related or under the thumbs of the big powers. I also also like any faction that doesn't have a history of wars of conquest based on the ego and greed of it elitist leadership class.
That doesn't leave me a lot to choose from in Battletech... 😆
My favorite force to play is the small independent Merc force, but I don't consider that a "faction".
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The FWL does offer the most variety for character creation (by a long shot)… ^-^
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Voted Team Other for the forgotten but not gone Escorpion Imperio.
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they're just out there living their best post-reaving lives
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we are sustained purely by spite and self-loathing.
read as
we are sustained purple-y by spite and self-loathing.
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Ok... that made me giggle... :D
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Quite a few surprises there. Virtually no love for the Homeworld Clans, but quite a bit of support for Clan Wolverine. Also no one plays the Dragoons? lol I voted CSJ, would have had WoB as 2nd and Random Merc as 3rd.
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Great House: Lyran Commonwealth, followed by the FWL
Periphery: Marian Hegemony, followed by the Hanseatic League
Inner Sphere Clans: Clan Hell’s Horses, followed by Clan Diamond Shark
Homeworlds Clans: Clan Cloud Cobra, followed by Clan Stone Lion
Honorable Mentions: Raven Alliance and Escorpión Imperio
Favorite Dead Factions: Rim World’s Republic, Clan Mongoose
Also, most of my favorite merc units are also dead: Grey Death Legion, Mobile Fire, Hell’s Black Aces, (the contractually obligated) Clifton’s Rangers
I also like Bannson’s Raiders, but I’m not exactly sure of their status right now.
Ruger
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I feel like you can tell forum demographics have shifted very strongly in that the FWL is leading this poll right now! ;D Hat's off to the Leaguers, you guys are nothing if not dedicated!
Historically, the Free Worlds League was a popular second state among fans. I think you at least once listed it among your favorite Successor States.
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Also no one plays the Dragoons?
Well, if my suspicions are right, we won't have to distinguish between Wolf, Wolf in Exile, Wolf's Dragoons, or either flavor of Steel Wolf for much longer. It'll just be one big ilClan Wolf. Maybe even a Wolf Hegemony. :)
That said, if it was a poll with a wider gamut and the ability to choose more than one option, my votes would be something like:
(1) Clan Wolf
(2) Clan Ghost Bear
(3) Clan Wolf in Exile
(4) Camacho's Caballeros
(5) Federated Suns
(6) Wolf's Dragoons
(7) Clan Coyote
(8) Clan Sea Fox
(9) Terran Hegemony
(10) Clan Smoke Jaguar
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Well, if my suspicions are right, we won't have to distinguish between Wolf, Wolf in Exile, Wolf's Dragoons, or either flavor of Steel Wolf for much longer. It'll just be one big ilClan Wolf. Maybe even a Wolf Hegemony. :)
That said, if it was a poll with a wider gamut and the ability to choose more than one option, my votes would be something like:
(1) Clan Wolf
(2) Clan Ghost Bear
(3) Clan Wolf in Exile
(4) Camacho's Caballeros
(5) Federated Suns
(6) Wolf's Dragoons
(7) Clan Coyote
(8) Clan Sea Fox
(9) Terran Hegemony
(10) Clan Smoke Jaguar
You forgot Clan Jade Wolf. ;D
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You forgot Clan Jade Wolf. ;D
For the all of an afternoon they existed, they'd probably show up somewhere around 17th on an extended list. ;)
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Historically, the Free Worlds League was a popular second state among fans. I think you at least once listed it among your favorite Successor States.
You'd be correct, but historically in these kinds of faction polls it rarely came in this high. It's nice to see!
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Other mercs, currently in service to the FWL.
Cheers,
LCC
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Voted Team Other for the forgotten but not gone Escorpion Imperio.
One does wonder how the Exiles, the Abjured, the Dead Clans, even the newly created Clan got on the list but the Scorps are the only Clan that didn't?
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I was disappointed early in my Battletech career by the Free Worlds League.... When I got my first box set (the one with the folded card mechs) back in the 80s, I saw the purple eagle emblems and was super excited to play Mech driving Space Romans!!... Turns out they were Mech driving Space European Union.... :P. Not nearly as exciting.... ;D
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Space NATO is way more interesting to model them as... ^-^
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It’s more like having six teenage brothers locked in a four bedroom house
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Given my experience with 3 daughters and 1 son, I think I'd modify that to "siblings" rather than just "brothers"... ^-^
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Other
There is no FedCom in this poll
Agreed. I voted Fed Suns but FedCom was my favorite. Also FWL second & Magistracy of Canopus in third place.
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I was disappointed early in my Battletech career by the Free Worlds League.... When I got my first box set (the one with the folded card mechs) back in the 80s, I saw the purple eagle emblems and was super excited to play Mech driving Space Romans!!... Turns out they were Mech driving Space European Union.... :P. Not nearly as exciting.... ;D
The FWL seem to suffer from a identity crisis in the early years. The FWL does have many of the trappings of SPQR (Eagle emblem, a love of purple and a dysfunctional senate) but it's like Fasa decided not to go that route when they thought up of the Marian Hegemony (who I find to be a great punching bag for my mercs ;) ) Honestly, I should like the FWL allot more as they are not as trope heavy handed with the tropes as the other houses but... I don't know, I guess I really just like don't like the color purple :P My apologies to Leaguers and fans of the artist formerly known as Prince.
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Coded as Clan Goliath Scorpion.
Seconded by Magistracy of Canopus, Spirit Cats, and the Escorpions (naturally)
I should probably rep for my kids, too: Clan Diamond Shark and Clan Cloud Cobra.
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One does wonder how the Exiles, the Abjured, the Dead Clans, even the newly created Clan got on the list but the Scorps are the only Clan that didn't?
They are the evolution of Clan Goliath Scorpion, so you can vote for them like that. Or just vote under other. :)
I do realize we can say the same for some of the listed factions like the Stone Lions, but if we go off on a tangent on what faction merges/evolves/mixes with this and that we'll have a list of over 100 items. Just don't take things too seriously it's all just in good fun and not meant as an end all be all list. 8)
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The FWL seem to suffer from a identity crisis in the early years. The FWL does have many of the trappings of SPQR (Eagle emblem, a love of purple and a dysfunctional senate) but it's like Fasa decided not to go that route when they thought up of the Marian Hegemony (who I find to be a great punching bag for my mercs ;) ) Honestly, I should like the FWL allot more as they are not as trope heavy handed with the tropes as the other houses but... I don't know, I guess I really just like don't like the color purple :P My apologies to Leaguers and fans of the artist formerly known as Prince.
I think the big problem was that they were not used in the fiction much for a long time. I know it is not popular with many here but I rather liked the book "Star Lord" and a big reason was that it used the FWL (also I like all the older designs that feature in that story for the most part) and I recall thinking that never really get to see things from their perspective.
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I like how, as of now, Comstar is losing to their more edgy, tech-worshipping offspring.
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I like how, as of now, Comstar is losing to their more edgy, tech-worshipping offspring.
It should come to no surprise that this forum loves solving problems with war crimes.
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Quite a few surprises there. Virtually no love for the Homeworld Clans, but quite a bit of support for Clan Wolverine. Also no one plays the Dragoons? lol I voted CSJ, would have had WoB as 2nd and Random Merc as 3rd.
I am not as surprised at least about the homeworld clans. I feel that they have received the short end of the stick for attention much like say the FWL back in the day (say the time period from the start of the clan invasion and before). I would imagine that has a lot to do with it.
As for the dragoons I would wonder how they would compare before and after it was decided that they were actually clan or if it changed after some of the more recent events where they were nearly elminated?
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It is difficult to choose just one when it's setup like this (I'd maybe rather see favorites divided on House/Merc/Clan/Timeline lines or something), but I did go with Wolf's Dragoons as they are an early love (so yeah I liked them before the Clans were on the board and well, I didn't stop liking them after, but I'm not sure that association did them any favors either - really the whole setting still feels entirely different pre and post Clans), but I could've picked Kurita just as well. I'm not really settled on what I like in the newer, post-Jihad era either (though kinda happy to see the WD and Dracs together again and on a rampage). I feel like there's room for some new favorites if something stands out to me.
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Ever since I discovered BattleTech my first love as been small mercenary units.
Of the Big Five, while I don't have a strong affinity for any of them, I particularly stuggled to find anything likeable in the Capellan Confederation.
Of the clans, which I was introduced to by MW2, I had an instant dislike to the Falcons and liking of the Wolves based on nothing more than the two faction intro videos in the game. If I had to pick a clan now it would be either the Bears or the Ravens but that's as much based on liking their logos as it is about knowing anything about them.
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I voted the Ghost Bears...they possess several attributes that I admire. They hold strength in high regard, are well considered and not rash in their decision making, they have an understanding of family bonds, which I think gives them a keen advantage when dealing with Inner Sphere culture, and is likely one of the main reasons why they felt more comfortable about moving practically their entire Clan into the Inner Sphere, and why they were able to eventually merge successfully with a section of it (or so I've read snippets of, I'm not really interested in the time periods that far ahead of the Invasion period)...and I also like their keen interest in Infantry tactics and the use of Battle Armour, their more flexible command structure and the honour they claimed in their victory at Tukayyid...and having what has to be the coolest iconography in the settings doesn't hurt either! What about that Leviathan...
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Well, the post did state "mainsteam" faction, so that ruled out a few of my choices.
Initially, I was a fan of the Oberon Confederation, but they vanished in a hurry when the test-tube kiddies with the stuffed animal logos appeared. Not exactly mainstream.
Then I followed the Outworlds Alliance, until the Ravens (probably my second-favorite Clan) showed up and turned it into something that doesn't make any sense at all. They're not "mainsteam" enough for a separate poll entry.
That left me with my perpetual second choice, the FWL, but they imploded....and now they're back again, mostly, so that's my pick in this poll. They're certainly a mainsteam faction, at least when they exist at all.
The purple thing is mainly an emblem color, it's not like most of their 'Mechs are painted with it, in fact most of them seem to be shades of green, although the various Marik Militia units are mostly white with purple and red and/or blue trim. The biggest problem is that for decades, the FWL got practically no recognition in the official timeline and stories from The Powers That Be, at least until the Jihad. They were always there in the background as this major industrial powerhouse that COULD be extremely significant if the leaders could ever get it to stop bickering internally, but was almost never one of the major players in the stories.
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It should come to no surprise that this forum loves solving problems with war crimes.
Stolen for sig.
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The purple thing is mainly an emblem color, it's not like most of their 'Mechs are painted with it, in fact most of them seem to be shades of green, although the various Marik Militia units are mostly white with purple and red and/or blue trim.
Don't forget white. There's a major overabundance of that color in their paint schemes.
At least 3085/3145 introduced a few new paint schemes to change things up a bit...although it's a bit of an annoyance to have *yet another* white w/ purple highlight scheme in the Tamarind Regulars.
But yeah, FWL for sure.
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Don't forget white. There's a major overabundance of that color in their paint schemes
To reprise Benjamin Franklin (or whoever said it), white paint schemes are proof that god hates us and wants us to suffer
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To reprise Benjamin Franklin (or whoever said it), white paint schemes are proof that god hates us and wants us to suffer
Woah I never knew ol' Benny was so woke
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Considering the current state of the Suns, I'm surprised they haven't been overtaken by the FWL fans on the boards!
I was in the hobby shop as a 12 year old back in the 80s, and saw the 5 house books arrayed around a BattleTech box. Sword and Sun grabbed me. I've stuck with them through thick (at first very thick!) and thin. Part of me doesn't want to be a fair weather fan, and the other part of me loves fighting the DCMS!
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Woah I never knew ol' Benny was so woke
now i'm picturing him at his workbench wearing the strongest spectacles available at the time trying to pain the white bits of british uniforms on toy lead soldiers and just cursing endlessly.
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now i'm picturing him at his workbench wearing the strongest spectacles available at the time trying to pain the white bits of british uniforms on toy lead soldiers and just cursing endlessly.
Now I can't get that image out of my head :thumbsup:
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The rest of my Clan Sea Fox friends are hibernating and need to come back to vote. The Sea Fox deserves more love than zero. I would normally voted for them, but my attention has been captured by the Imperio, and I couldn't help it.
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The rest of my Clan Sea Fox friends are hibernating and need to come back to vote. The Sea Fox deserves more love than zero. I would normally voted for them, but my attention has been captured by the Imperio, and I couldn't help it.
Keep in mind that there is overlap between Free Worlds League support, and Clan Sea Fox support.
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Keep in mind that there is overlap between Free Worlds League support, and Clan Sea Fox support.
Guilty as charged.
The whole Clan Protectorate thing really worked out well for me...now all we need are some canon schemes for their Clusters.
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Clans ended up being a lot less popular than I expected.
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Really? I'm not surprised at all. General consensus in most groups I know is 'Clan tech and salvage is great, Clans are kinda boring though'.
I'm more surprised that FedSuns is beating pretty much everyone.
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Clans are fun as long as there is conflict such as the Refusal War or even Wars of Reaving. In there own corner of space, yeah, makes sense for a war game where you bring even match armies to fight but not very compelling for a RP campaign. You have archetypes that can give a good story such as Ulrich Kerensky defending the Warden cause during the Crusader power play, Aidan Pryde's journey of self discovery, Vlad Ward looking for revenge, Trent's falling from grace and disillusionment, ect. But if your just Clanner X dropped from the can to gain honor/brownie points... yeah.
My only problem with the IS is that the earlier nobility stuff sometimes comes off as really forced. You easily run into the same problems as the boring Clan story only with a Medieval Times theme. I found myself enjoying IS more from a mercenaries perspective, trying to survive problems caused by generations of nepotism vs anouther clog in the feudal machine.
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Clans ended up being a lot less popular than I expected.
Most people I know treat "The Clans" as a single faction. If you do that then they have 28.5% of the vote.
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I'm more surprised that FedSuns is beating pretty much everyone.
I've yet to see a Battletech faction popularity poll the Suns didn't eventually run away with.
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Currently they are only beating 3 of the four houses combined. Give them time...
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there's no fedcom to dillute the superfriends vote
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I think it's because the FedRats are often depicted as the "good guys". Sure they have had their share of douchebaggy moments too (I'm looking at you Hanse!), but in a universe where you have Capellans and Dracs, they often pale in comparison and it's easy to sweep them under the rug and pretend they never happened. So they are often seen as the cleanest, goodest boys.
To me personally that makes them boring, feels artificial but that's just my perception.
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yeah, their spotlight in the fasa fiction clearly helped. it doesn't keep us from throwing rocks at the bandwagon ;D
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Agreed that the Warrior Trilogy as an entry point for fiction probably skews the field towards the FedSuns.
I myself never loved the FedCom, so I didn't lose sleep over the death of the superpower.
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For me starting with the first book I read (Sword and Dagger) I have been a FS fan. On the clan side I went with Smoke Jags, mostly as all the other invaders were taken by my local group.
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Kentares left a mark.
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My intro to Battletech fiction was with the Legend of the Jade Phoenix trilogy followed by the Blood of Kerensky trilogy. So no wonder I love the Clans and where they came from.
My first sourcebooks were The Periphery and House Kurita. Again, I just love Periphery powers, and my favorite house is most certainly the Draconis Combine.
There is definitely something to what you read first determining your sensibilities.
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there's probably a coloration there yeah
but my intro to the universe was MW2
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And your not a Clan fanatic.
MW2 was a great game. It introduced lots of new players. It's great how video games have been the gateway drug for growing BT.
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MW2 for me as well, why I'm a Wolf fan.
Interesting enough, almost all other Battletech/Mechwarrior games are about being a Mercenary from Crescent Hawks Inception on. MechCommander and MechWarrior 4 Vengeance was the only game told from a Davion perspective.
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The Blood of Kerensky series and MW2 Mercs were my intro to the universe. Mercs are a big favorite to play that is for sure however they are not my favorite faction probably because to me they are not really a faction per se. That being said I tend towards IS nations rather than the clans.
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Fed Suns. Initially because they were "THE" good guys, white hats etc.
Overall, the in-universe canon is that the Federated Suns is the most open and free of all of the dictatorships that seem to populate the universe. That appeals to me. Had they survived over time, I probably would have migrated to FRR. Why? The only actual democracy. I guess Fronc Reaches is a democracy. I have been interested. This isn't to launch a RL political discussion. Only as my personal views flavor my Btech faction interest. Talk to me about anything remotely RL politics and I am not going to respond. I chill here because I know there isn't much of that here, thankkfully.
Clan? Wolf, due to openness for their lower castes, though with the coming of Vlad and crusader Wolves, much less interested. I like the Jade Falcons because they seemed to be transforming into something akin to the Wolves, but then the Jihad and the Society killed off Marthe Pryde and others that might have reformed Clan Temper Tantrum. (ok one of many) I would probably gravitate to the Ghost Bears now as they are sort of accepting of some of the democratic elements of the FRR with the GB Dominion.
Strangely I dig the "ROMANS IN SPAAAACE" despite the decidedly anti-democratic nature of the Marians. Probably my history degree and interest in the Roman empire helps me look past it.
I detest the Capellans due to the Marxist/Leninist flavor. The near confederacy/broken parlimentary/broken federalist state approach of the FWL is unappealing. (However, it might be fairly realistic for how an interstellar "democracy" might function, badly) The DC is interesting but they backed away from being reasonable after Theodore's death. I've never understood why after the Fed Com Civil war that Yvonne and her sibling or cousin couldn't work out another semi-unification to some extent. Except of course that puts us on the path to PeaceTech again which isn't very interesting. The corporations run amok of the LC (I've never accepted that Lyran Alliance name except when ruled by the Despot Katie) bothers me more than it used to.
So my likes are flavored by my real life political/philosophical leanings and those who I think match well with it. There are units, characters and stories I think are interesting from most factions and I am slowly working on a unit/formation from all of the major players and most of the 2nd tier powers. (and a few even smaller)
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The Fed Suns appealed to me from the beginning. They have the coolest logo. Sword and sunburst looks awesome. The fact that they were the "good guys" made it easy when I was a young teenager to pick them.
Right behind them, I like the Draconis Combine. They were the badass bad guys, honorable and ruthless. The Empire from Star Wars is cool, so is the Combine. :)
On the Clan front, some of the first Battletech novels I read were the Legend of the Jade Phoenix trilogy. I liked the Jade Falcons. Plus they had a cool bird carrying a katana, and that's awesome. I always hated Clan Wolf's symbol. I thought is was ugly, blocky and lacking in style. Plus they were clearly self-righteous jerks who were the authors' favorites. :)
Lately I've really taken to the Smoke Jaguars. There's something nice about playing the unrepentant villain. In a WWII game, it's fun to play the Nazis, right?
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FedCom more democratic than the FWL?
i don't think so.
The FWL is far and away from an ideal democracy, yeah. But it is at the core a democracy. The FedCom is a dictatorship. Maybe sometimes with a more benevolent dictator at the the top than other dictatorships, but for all purposes an inheritable dictatorship. The captain-general is an elected leader. With a lot of rights, yeah, but nonetheless elected.
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Lately I've really taken to the Smoke Jaguars. There's something nice about playing the unrepentant villain. In a WWII game, it's fun to play the Nazis, right?
:thumbsup:
Once I realized that the Smoke Jaguars were the bad guys of the Clan world, I adopted them as my clan faction. They fought the DCMS like my FedSuns, so what isn't to like?
I joined Smoke Jaguar clans in the online games MechWarrior: Living Legends and then in MWO, and had a lot of fun terrorizing the inner sphere. I have more time in a Shadow Cat than I care to admit in Living Legends, and man was that thing a beauty in that game.
Even Operations Bulldog and Serpent made me like them more, because who doesn't like a faction that faces annihilation and goes down swinging?
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MW2 for me as well, why I'm a Wolf fan.
Interesting enough, almost all other Battletech/Mechwarrior games are about being a Mercenary from Crescent Hawks Inception on. MechCommander and MechWarrior 4 Vengeance was the only game told from a Davion perspective.
What unit was MechWarrior 3 using? The intro doesn't say, but Sarna says they are from the ELH, which was technically a Star League unit at that point. The player is dropped with a Bushwacker, a relatively new FedCom mech, though.
I was first introduced to the game with the model of an Atlas. I wasn't told too much else about it until I ran across the Legend of the Jade Phoenix books in the library. Read them all and was hooked. Eventually as I read through more fiction and gained TROs and other game books, I have felt more and more an affinity for the FedSuns than Jade Falcon. Still, the preferred Mech mix of both (trending more to mediums and heavies) tends to be my preferences, too.
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A couple people point out that really there are too many choices in the above list.
I condensed them to see where the count would be & almost think I could do it a bit more.
Federated Suns 31 (23.3%)
Invader Clan Wardens [23] [17.3%]
Clan Wolf 3 (2.3%)
Clan Ghost Bear 12 (9%)
Clan Diamond Shark (Sea Fox) 0 (0%)
Clan Steel Viper 2 (1.5%)
Clan Nova Cat 3 (2.3%)
Clan Wolf in Exile 3 (2.3%)
Free World's League 17 (12.8%)
Lyran Commonwealth 9 (6.8%)
Blakists [7] [5.3%]
Word of Blake 4 (3%)
ComStar 3 (2.3%)
Capellan Confederation 6 (4.5%)
Home Clan Crusaders [6] [4.5%]
Clan Hell's Horses 1 (0.8%)
Clan Blood Spirit 2 (1.5%)
Clan Burrock 0 (0%)
Clan Fire Mandrill 0 (0%)
Clan Ice Hellion 1 (0.8%)
Clan Mongoose 0 (0%)
Clan Star Adder 1 (0.8%)
Clan Stone Lion 0 (0%)
Clan Wolverine 1 (0.8%)
Home Clan Wardens [6] [4.5%]
Clan Snow Raven 4 (3%)
Clan Cloud Cobra 0 (0%)
Clan Coyote 0 (0%)
Clan Goliath Scorpion 2 (1.5%)
Mercs [6] [4.5%]
Wolf's Dragoons 2 (1.5%)
Northwind Highlanders 0 (0%)
Kellhounds 1 (0.8%)
Grey Death Legion 0 (0%)
Other Mercs 3 (2.3%)
Draconis Combine 5 (3.8%)
Periphery Power 5 (3.8%)
Invader Clan Crusaders [4] [3%]
Clan Jade Falcon 3 (2.3%)
Clan Smoke Jaguar 1 (0.8%)
Republic of the Sphere (Terran Hegemony) 4 (3%)
Other 4 (3%)
Still too many options I'm thinking.
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Okay, now HERE is a proper Poll to show us where people really stand in order from current votes, after moving my own from other to FCS.
The Good Guy Twins [41] [30.8%]
(Federated Commonwealth States)
Ubertech Barbarians [39] [29.3%]
(The Clans)
The Bad Guy Triplets [28] [21.1%]
(Concord of Kapteyn States)
The Stewards of Mother Earth [11] [8.3%]
(WoB, C*, RotS, TH)
The Go It Aloners [11] [8.3%]
(Periphery/Mercs)
Other [3] [2.3%]
(Who are you people?)
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Ummm… how did you get below 4 votes for "Other"? Did someone vote that just to screw up your count? ???
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Ummm… how did you get below 4 votes for "Other"? Did someone vote that just to screw up your count? ???
See my note above...
Okay, now HERE is a proper Poll to show us where people really stand in order from current votes, after moving my own from other to FCS.
I originally voted Other for FedCom which wasn't in the poll, once I condensed the responses, I corrected it.
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Ah, missed that... thanks! :thumbsup:
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NP & YW.
I find the condensed version interesting.
As someone mentioned a lot of people just think of clans as a single faction, so once they are combined it is very close to the top.
You still have the FedCom (Suns) in the lead, but its not nearly the spike that we see with all the factions broken down.
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As someone mentioned a lot of people just think of clans as a single faction, so once they are combined it is very close to the top.
I suppose you could ultimately catalogue most factions under two civilizations - Great House and Clan.
But lumping the Clans into a single faction is like saying all of the Houses are a single faction because they all very loosely share the same feudal structure. Certainly the Jade Falcons, Sea Foxes and Ghost Bears / Rasalhague Dominion are as distinct from each other as Davion, Kurita and Marik. Even before the 32nd century there were real cultural differences between Diamond Sharks, Smoke Jaguars, Cloud Cobras, Snow Ravens, etc.
Still, the fact that collectively the Clans are near the top is good news for Clanophiles :thumbsup:
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Yes it is good news. And it is probably roughly what the writers and devs thought.
I always hope for new Clan fiction and sourcebooks. IlClan will be another great offering, and hopefully as good as the Wars of Reaving was.
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Yes it is good news. And it is probably roughly what the writers and devs thought.
I always hope for new Clan fiction and sourcebooks. IlClan will be another great offering, and hopefully as good as the Wars of Reaving was.
Likewise. One of the best things about Forever Faithful is Clan Goliath Scorpion getting some limelight. TPTB also mentioned an upcoming product in the works involving the Imperio. Hopefully post-3100 but anything will be good.
Wouldn't mind seeing some fiction or sourcebook material that delves into the other 99.9% of Clan society too.
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My argument about the clans has always been that too many survived the golden century... or even the pentagon campaign. I feel like one or two should have been wiped out recapturing the homeworlds. The there should have been more cannibalism.
8-12 would have given a lot more breathing room for really exploring the subtle (and less subtle) differences in personality.
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I've been weirdly partial to the Lyran Commonwealth for a long time. Blame the Kell Hounds in Stackpole's books I suppose. But there's a bit of utility to that - they pick fights with everyone. FWL and DC are long-time enemies, they have a border on the CapCon for a while, Cornstar comes and kicks the door in for the Jihad right at the start, there's also the Clans, the Clans, the Clans, more FWL, and oh yeah the Clans by 3150. Hell I could even legitimately game out LC vs FRR if I wanted to, and I have the two best Clans to beat up or be beat up by. Add in the Horses hanging out with the Falcons during Malvina's reign and it gets even better.
And yes I like big mechs and I can not lie.
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I suppose you could ultimately catalogue most factions under two civilizations - Great House and Clan.
But lumping the Clans into a single faction is like saying all of the Houses are a single faction because they all very loosely share the same feudal structure.
It is perfectly reasonable to lump all the Inner Sphere states together, quiaff?
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It is perfectly reasonable to lump all the Inner Sphere states together, quiaff?
It is just a different data point. Some prefer their data to be more descriptive.
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I'm impressed with support for the FWL and Clan Ghost Bear regardless.
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I suppose you could ultimately catalogue most factions under two civilizations - Great House and Clan.
But lumping the Clans into a single faction is like saying all of the Houses are a single faction because they all very loosely share the same feudal structure. Certainly the Jade Falcons, Sea Foxes and Ghost Bears / Rasalhague Dominion are as distinct from each other as Davion, Kurita and Marik. Even before the 32nd century there were real cultural differences between Diamond Sharks, Smoke Jaguars, Cloud Cobras, Snow Ravens, etc.
Still, the fact that collectively the Clans are near the top is good news for Clanophiles :thumbsup:
I certainly like the clans, but I'll disagree that they are all as different as the IS nations.
You might be able to lump CC & DC as being "close but different".
Much like the Falcons/Jaguars, or, Wolves/Coyotes, or Cats/Scorpions.
But I think the FWL, LC, & FS are all plenty different from each other.
And none of them is similar to Mercs or the Periphery. (Actually the Sharks might be the Mercs of the Clans... The Merc-hants, but sort of merc feel in that they have minimal property, travel around, and work with other people.)
And then there are the various factions that have owned Terra.
TH & RotS are similar, C* & WoB are similar, but no one would confuse the 1st pair with the 2nd pair even though they all owned Terra & had lots of pretty factories & advanced toys.
Not that I'm saying all the clans are the same, but, they ARE all the exact same government & social structure.
Some are bigger jerks to civilians/freeborn, some love big mechs v/s fast mechs, some like warships/fighters/tanks/elementals more than mechs, but in the end, its the same Khan, same Warrior Lead Caste System, heck, in most cases its the same planets since they share most of them.
The IS on the other had has factions within factions the way you have Skye or the Haseks in the 4th SW, and many worlds have unique flair to them in their history/social structure. Lets not even get started with the many faces of the FWL, lol.
The Clan home worlds are well, the same pretty much all over.
The Bear Dominion is certainly a bit different now, but that is because you have something totally different in how they merged with the FRR.
The Bears of 3048 were not so different, sure, they liked family more than the other clans, except maybe the Spirits who believe in cooperation & getting along, but they didn't feel REALLY DIFFERENT till after you get the merging of the 2 into something greater than either part.
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I'm impressed with support for the FWL and Clan Ghost Bear regardless.
I agree, I misread the 12 for the Bears as the Wolves above them & wasn't really surprised, then when you said that I realized my error & I too am impressed.
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I think it would be really interesting to see what people's second and third favorite factions are.
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Fiefdom of Randis for life!! :thumbsup:
Other than that, I'm purely a small-fry Merc at heart. Give me a Company, maybe two, and enough rattle-trap dropships to get off whatever hellhole we are fighting over, and I'm happy... 8)
Flags are for suckers....
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I think it would be really interesting to see what people's second and third favorite factions are.
It is typically a simple matter for people to point out their second favorite state. The third gets murky, and may even change by the day. The net vote count in this poll has been surprisingly low, which may be skewing matters. Then again, the forums are not terribly representative of the community at large. We need a cheap PDF magazine that can attend to such matters.
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the number of responses is pretty standard. maybe 300-400 of us do a majority of the posting. and the vast majority of users lurk without logging in so they can't vote.
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Another boring vote for the Fed Suns. 8)
My gateway books into the fiction and history of Battletech were the 4th SW Atlases, since I loved those sorts of maps and write ups. It was easy to root for Hanse as a Magnificent Bastard in those, and they have been my default ever since.
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Another vote for the FWL here; I picked them out of the lineup in the FASA ad in Dragon magazine number 112- the "Swear Your Allegiance" ad with the oh-so-sweet art of a Locust in Eridani Light Horse livery, from the 1st edition Mechwarrior RPG rulebook.
Also trying vainly to suppress feelings of schadenfreude due to the GDL and Northwind Highlanders polling no votes at all...not a sausage... ;D
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I wonder why the ELH wasn't listed separately...
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Really? I'm not surprised at all. General consensus in most groups I know is 'Clan tech and salvage is great, Clans are kinda boring though'.
Which is weird to me, since the clans are the most interesting thing about battletech to me.
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Which is weird to me, since the clans are the most interesting thing about battletech to me.
Clans have just as many haters as fans. Doesn't help the Clans go through periods of stagnation in the meta plot where they don't do much more post Invasion. Clan Ghost Bear gained in popularity in part due to their Clan being more active during the Dark Age; co creating what can considered a Warden Clan state that supports Clan ideas without being a Totalitarian power. Same with Clan Ice Raven but to a smaller extent. I was hoping this was the route the Wolves in Exile would take but they been somewhat marginalized and now overshadowed by the Wolf Empire.
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Over all I really like Draconis Combine even if I am have been thinking to switching to Lyran Alliance now that I am getting back to BT and I have stripped paint from my old miniatures.
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Favorite Inner Sphere: Lyrans (FWL as runner up and OpForce)
Favorite Clan(s): Divided between Coyote and Fox.
Favorite Periphery: MoC
Lyrans 1st over all.
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Clans have just as many haters as fans. Doesn't help the Clans go through periods of stagnation in the meta plot where they don't do much more post Invasion. Clan Ghost Bear gained in popularity in part due to their Clan being more active during the Dark Age; co creating what can considered a Warden Clan state that supports Clan ideas without being a Totalitarian power. Same with Clan Ice Raven but to a smaller extent. I was hoping this was the route the Wolves in Exile would take but they been somewhat marginalized and now overshadowed by the Wolf Empire.
Basically people like CGB because they are one of the few clans who aren't douchebags to this date, but still strong enough to give any other faction a run for their money. You don't poke bear, bear doesn't poke you. I think the only other clan that may currently fit this description would probably be Clan Sea Fox, though I don't think their touman is as big as bear's. Sea Foxes seem to focus more on quality over quantity (at least when it comes to stuff they don't intend to sell XD) and thus they field the largest amount of omnimechs and high tech equipment.
CHH is not too douchebaggy of a clan either, they are pretty nice guys (usually), but their touman I believe is not nearly as strong as the previous two clans, and they focus mostly on infantry and tanks in a universe where we all want big stompy machines!
Nova Cats were cool too but sadly they are currently suffering a bad case of the Deaths.
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I'm a die hard Davion fan, but I voted FWL.
There's a lot of story in the FWL, and, sadly, we've never really seen the different Marches given as much fleshing as the parts of the league. So for story telling (for me) the FWL has more options.
As to favourites...
Great House: Federated Suns. Old enough to have had the original Warrior Trillogy, and go Hanse.
Periphery: Marian Hegemony. How can you not like a Periphery state made by someone who watch Gladiator too much. Later the Scorpion Imperium.
Clan: Nova Cat, for the mysticism and the bloodname
Dead faction: Wolverines. (yeah, one can argue my Nova Cats fit here too)
AU: Rim Federation. Plucky underdogs, with to me, an Appalachian feel.
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I am starting to think that MadCap was right, and that I was too pessimistic. The idea of the Free Worlds League overcoming three Successor States on a favorite state poll was a pipe dream a decade ago. The fact that it has stayed above the 50% ratio of the Federated Suns vote is also fantastic.
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Is it weird if I never found any affinity with any of the Great Houses?
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no, not really. the only reason i ended up here was because my friend's Multiplayer BattleTech unit on Kesmai was the 1stFWG. i stayed for the warming glow of the dumpster fire.
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Is it weird if I never found any affinity with any of the Great Houses?
No
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Is it weird if I never found any affinity with any of the Great Houses?
No, still feel a bigger fan of random Mercs myself.
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Seems like FedSuns are really popular among those using this message board. No wonder considering that they are pretty much poster boys of BT and are most often written competent.
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Seems like FedSuns are really popular among those using this message board. No wonder considering that they are pretty much poster boys of BT and are most often written competent.
They aren't stupid militarily (vs Lyran, Marik), and only mildly stupid politically (relatively vs Liao, Kurita), or at least, that's how they are fluffed in the books. That changed a bit after Victor's time, and not everyone is as familiar with Jihad/post-Jihad in the fluff (like me) because of reasons and such a long focus between 3SSW and FCCW.
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They aren't stupid militarily (vs Lyran, Marik), and only mildly stupid politically (relatively vs Liao, Kurita), or at least, that's how they are fluffed in the books. That changed a bit after Victor's time, and not everyone is as familiar with Jihad/post-Jihad in the fluff (like me) because of reasons and such a long focus between 3SSW and FCCW.
I would totally agree with you, adding that post Victor fluff (it is out there) is not well known. I have been trying to find a good list of what fluff books have been released so I can fill in the gaps in my library but so far have been unable to get a solid list of what is out there. At the end of the new Shrapnel they had a list, but even it is not complete (I know this as I have several books that are not listened, but does let me know of a few that I need to get). I am amazed how often someone will see my group playing and say that they used to play back in the day, and are so sad that it is a dead game, even in 2020 there seams to be a lot out there that do not know it did not die when FASA closed its doors, my guess is two fold. One Click Tech happened and many thought that took the place (I did for several years, so not pointing any fingers here), and for some time the total lack of print fluff (I do not know when it came back in print, one of the problems with making a list of what I am missing). Many like E-books (I am not one of them), but when walking through a book store you do not see them sitting on the shelf.
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They aren't stupid militarily (vs Lyran, Marik), and only mildly stupid politically (relatively vs Liao, Kurita), or at least, that's how they are fluffed in the books. That changed a bit after Victor's time, and not everyone is as familiar with Jihad/post-Jihad in the fluff (like me) because of reasons and such a long focus between 3SSW and FCCW.
Caleb Davion and the Palmyra Debacle would like a word with you. And also, as a FedSuns fan I can tell you that the whole "March Lord" system of government/military rule hasn't been very successful since oh, 3050?
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Caleb Davion and the Palmyra Debacle would like a word with you. And also, as a FedSuns fan I can tell you that the whole "March Lord" system of government/military rule hasn't been very successful since oh, 3050?
I did say that the Jihad/post-Jihad period isn't as well known as the early part of the 31st Century, and I very much included myself in that speel.
And I did say that their political system was only mildly stupid, but that is a matter of perspective when compared to the rather extreme examples of how the Combine and Confederation were run.
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I have no idea where the concept that the Free Worlds League was stupid militarily came from. It is this little myth that has existed in Davion fans' heads (well, not all of them) since they never actually read books about it. Perhaps it is fluffed that way in newer books, but definitely not in source material. Frankly, House Davion source material never made sense, as they lacked force projection abilities, yet demonstrated obscene force projection throughout their history. They loved combined arms, yet maneuvered as though they only fielded JJ equipped mechs. They never paid a penalty for any disadvantage they were supposed to have in universe.
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However much of the early 31st century fluff was based on mercenaries. Mercenaries were romantic superheroes who could easily outperform the best of any Successor State. The Dragoons were at the top of the pile. When they failed, you knew no one else could succeed. That they lost to the ELH should tell you that no one was going to be able to take Hesperus at that time. Had the Dragoons been treated like an equivalent house line unit, they would have been dead a long time ago. Their successes and failures literally drove the end of the 3rd, and the results of the 4th Succession Wars. Without them, New Avalon would have been managed by a Combine Warlord.
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FedCom more democratic than the FWL?
i don't think so.
The FWL is far and away from an ideal democracy, yeah. But it is at the core a democracy. The FedCom is a dictatorship. Maybe sometimes with a more benevolent dictator at the the top than other dictatorships, but for all purposes an inheritable dictatorship. The captain-general is an elected leader. With a lot of rights, yeah, but nonetheless elected.
FedSuns moreso than FedCom.
FWL is not a democracy. Only the Marik family can be Captain-General, there are laws in the FWL that require it, I seem to recall. If rubber stamping an heir is an election, by that measure the LC is a democracy too. In no way is the FWL a free and open democracy. The Captain-General is more bound by their legislature due to the fact the FWL is a weak federal state with the member states behaving as a Confederation. This ended largely after Anton's revolt and the Andurien Secession. The rights of the member states were much more limited in their ability to refuse the central government. The FS was like that to some extent before the war of succession during the Star League.
None of the Successor States are democratic. The FedSuns is a more open society than the rest, though LC and FWL are fairly close. I'm just using the in-universe discussions from various descriptions of the successor states. CC is the least open, FS the most with the others somewhere in-between.
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I have no idea where the concept that the Free Worlds League was stupid militarily came from. It is this little myth that has existed in Davion fans heads (well, not all of them) since they never actually read books about it. Perhaps it is fluffed that way in newer books, but definitely not in source material. Frankly House Davion source material never made sense, they lacked force projection abilities, yet demonstrated obscene force projection throughout their history. They loved combined arms, yet maneuvered as though they only fielded JJ equipped mechs. They never paid a penalty for any disadvantage they were supposed to have in universe.
We field a lot of Jagermechs in 3025. Does that count? ;D
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Only as a warcrime against yourself
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The funny thing about it is it makes every lance worse. So design a good lance, save that 4th slot for a Jagermech, and Voila! Handicap in Vegas for that match!
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FedSuns moreso than FedCom.
FWL is not a democracy. Only the Marik family can be Captain-General, there are laws in the FWL that require it, I seem to recall. If rubber stamping an heir is an election, by that measure the LC is a democracy too. In no way is the FWL a free and open democracy. The Captain-General is more bound by their legislature due to the fact the FWL is a weak federal state with the member states behaving as a Confederation. This ended largely after Anton's revolt and the Andurien Secession. The rights of the member states were much more limited in their ability to refuse the central government. The FS was like that to some extent before the war of succession during the Star League.
None of the Successor States are democratic. The FedSuns is a more open society than the rest, though LC and FWL are fairly close. I'm just using the in-universe discussions from various descriptions of the successor states. CC is the least open, FS the most with the others somewhere in-between.
I am going to argue that the right of first refusal was not undemocratic, but rather a choice by Parliament. They could have repealed it at any time throughout League history, before Thomas Marik. It became a norm, but norms can be overturned.
Member-states derived shocking power through federalism, not devolution. Parliament does however conditionally employ devolution on matters it strictly controls, because there is no reason not to. The courts controlled by Parliament can determine if the states are doing so in good faith. This is because Parliament recognizes that its objective is to protect the members, not control them. Now the use of member military forces was a Captain-General prerogative until Elizabeth Marik passed a stupid law. That was revoked by Thomas Marik.
As for the Federated Suns being an open society, I think you mean to say that they have Lockean Rights. People in the Free Worlds League rely more on a common law understanding of rights, hence the courts could find that worlds have self-determination within the League. Self-expression, and debate are considered cornerstone features of the Free Worlds League, with Victor Steiner-Davion himself falling back on them to express himself to the Star League. It is kind of hard to compare the rights you would have in either state, and both have gone through their bad periods.
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I have no idea where the concept that the Free Worlds League was stupid militarily came from. ....
My thought is two fold, first Janos Marik (and some of this goes with your thoughts on mercenaries [Snord Irregulars]), the second is how being between the LA and CC (often thought to be the two worst militaries in the game) and yet they did not accomplish much (again you thoughts on mercenaries play a big part here as well). A lot of this I think changed with Thomas Marik (Halas), but then we start running into the time that fluff become less well know.
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My thought is two fold, first Janos Marik (and some of this goes with your thoughts on mercenaries [Snord Irregulars]), the second is how being between the LA and CC (often thought to be the two worst militaries in the game) and yet they did not accomplish much (again you thoughts on mercenaries play a big part here as well). A lot of this I think changed with Thomas Marik (Halas), but then we start running into the time that fluff become less well know.
Military reputation is a funny thing. Because you might have some awesome units and mechs on the Marik equation, but the results from the Succession Wars are very mixed. Fighting the LC and the CC is not a way to find glory.
Similarly: consider the DC. Lore states that pilot for pilot, they may be the best mechwarriors in the inner sphere. Mech wise, the Draconis Combine Sourcebook says they pilot Dragons, Quickdraws, and Chargers? Ouch. Then take the Third Succession War. They get absolutely schlacked by the FedSuns and borders go nearly back to pre-Succession War status on that front. Reputation doesn't match the accomplishments. BattleTech history can be fickle and confusing that way.
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Military reputation is a funny thing. Because you might have some awesome units and mechs on the Marik equation, but the results from the Succession Wars are very mixed. Fighting the LC and the CC is not a way to find glory.
Similarly: consider the DC. Lore states that pilot for pilot, they may be the best mechwarriors in the inner sphere. Mech wise, the Draconis Combine Sourcebook says they pilot Dragons, Quickdraws, and Chargers? Ouch. Then take the Third Succession War. They get absolutely schlacked by the FedSuns and borders go nearly back to pre-Succession War status on that front. Reputation doesn't match the accomplishments. BattleTech history can be fickle and confusing that way.
Keep in mind that during the 1st Succession War, the Free Worlds League Militia shattered the Capellan Confederation militarily whilst the AFFS were busy being bludgeoned by a Dragon. That is why you think the CCAF were historically weak.
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Now an important skew in people's evaluations should be the mix of the Comstar War, and Lombard's filibuster. Those two events combined to make it impossible for the Free Worlds League to fend off the offensives of four Successor States. Yet they ultimately did, and even gained ground on the Capellan front. The Free Worlds League did not have Black Boxes, and the Parliament was blocking the Captain-General from even using Jumpships to make up for communication issues.
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Keep in mind that during the 1st Succession War, the Free Worlds League Militia shattered the Capellan Confederation militarily whilst the AFFS were busy being bludgeoned by a Dragon. That is why you think the CCAF were historically weak.
I am not saying it is a deserved reputation, I would say it is not. It is more a case I think of everyone thinking of the poor leader they had in the early days of the game, and just not remembering that it is no longer the case. My guess is that most people when they think of the houses think of the "first" leaders (by this I mean the ones when the game came out) and this has a tendency to affect their view. But what house has not had a sub par (or worse) leader? The only ones that I can think of are ones that did not survive, so even then how good was the leader?
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Keep in mind that during the 1st Succession War, the Free Worlds League Militia shattered the Capellan Confederation militarily whilst the AFFS were busy being bludgeoned by a Dragon. That is why you think the CCAF were historically weak.
As for the CCAF being historically weak, I think what stands out for me is their performance in the 1st, 3rd (OUCH), and 4th Succession Wars (yikes?). The contrast between those wars and the Dark Ages is amazing. I think the CCAF is probably one of the best military machines in 3151.
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Janos was not a poor leader. The civil war in his realm was the results of the Federated Suns, Comstar, Maximilian Liao, and the Wolf's Dragoons working together. That was one hell of an opposition, yet Janos survived, and rebuilt the Free Worlds League Militia. Even thereafter, he pulled a realpolitik with the Dragoons, keeping his realm well managed. He also came the closest in that point of history to seizing Hesperus.
Maximilian was playing First Lord, without the ability to back it up militarily. He succeeded in weakening a foe, just to demonstrate he lacked an understanding of realpolitik, as that entity became unreliable when a House Davion, backed up by Lyran jumpships, counterattacked. Maximilian Liao was making the type of gambles necessary to become a 1st Lord, given his position. Unfortunately for him, he failed against Hanse. Hanse's own luck failed in the War of 3039, however he had the luxury of not having to win at that time. None of the five at that time were incompetents. They all had strengths and flaws. The greatest strength that Hanse employed was the Wolf's Dragoons, followed by his next strength, Lyran jumpships.
Really, if you want to have a detailed discussion of the big five, you will find differences between what the source material actually says they did, and how it describes their strengths and weaknesses.
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As for the CCAF being historically weak, I think what stands out for me is their performance in the 1st, 3rd (OUCH), and 4th Succession Wars (yikes?). The contrast between those wars and the Dark Ages is amazing. I think the CCAF is probably one of the best military machines in 3151.
Maximilian Liao is owed much credit for rebuilding the CCAF, even if he got pummeled for his schemes. Sun-Tzu built on those strengths.
Sometimes what you see as the weakness of an individual leader is actually a long term building block. Other times, what is seen as the strength of a leader is an albatross to their realm's future.
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Really if you want to have a detailed discussion of the big five, you will find differences between what the source material actually says they did, and how it describes their strengths and weaknesses.
That is good point. Especially when different authors tend to favor different Succession States which also tends to effect how those 5 are seen.
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FWL is the one faction that can say their loses are due to infighter rather than 'stupid pills' (without going into Rule 4 violating examples, stupid leaders are fare from unrealistic. Frustrating, yes but history is full of them)
FedCom fell to the same fate only much more prolonged. People can blame Victor being naive to a fault but to his credit, he told his mother he wasn't ready to lead before she was assassinated and his sibling didn't fair much better.
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FWL is the one faction that can say their loses are due to infighter rather than 'stupid pills' (without going into Rule 4 violating examples, stupid leaders are fare from unrealistic. Frustrating, yes but history is full of them)
FedCom fell to the same fate only much more prolonged. People can blame Victor being naive to a fault but to his credit, he told his mother he wasn't ready to lead before she was assassinated and his sibling didn't fair much better.
Elizabeth Marik played an important role in undermining the Free Worlds League Militia's war performance. She was seen as a wildly popular, and successful leader, but left an albatross around the necks of future Captain-Generals. It is ironic that Janos, and Thomas would use its damage to substantially strengthen the office later.
MP Lombard is another example of someone who did lasting damage to the Free Worlds League.
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Maximilian Liao is owed much credit for rebuilding the CCAF, even if he got pummeled for his schemes. Sun-Tzu built on those strengths.
You don't often hear folks singing Maximilian Liao's praises, so you've piqued my curiosity. What credit is he owed for rebuilding the CCAF?
Cheers,
Mad
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Elizabeth Marik played an important role in undermining the Free Worlds League Militia's war performance.
... help me out, not a student of the FWL and I cant find Elizabeth Marik on Sarna.
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You don't often hear folks singing Maximilian Liao's praises, so you've piqued my curiosity. What credit is he owed for rebuilding the CCAF?
Cheers,
Mad
Maximilian's most important contribution was the building of the command circuit jumpship infrastructure, which not only would have enabled the Confederation to block a typical offensive, or raid (Which the 4th was not), but also restored the Confederation's ability to launch successful offensive operations. The CCAF itself improved in performance under his reign.
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... help me out, not a student of the FWL and I cant find Elizabeth Marik on Sarna.
My typo, Elisabeth Marik. She negotiated the Home Defense Act, allowing members to retain a substantial portion of their forces if they felt threatened. This caused considerable damage to League needs.
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My typo, Elisabeth Marik. She negotiated the Home Defense Act, allowing members to retain a substantial portion of their forces if they felt threatened. This caused considerable damage to League needs.
OK, Home Defense Act.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Home_Defense_Act
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I might have mentioned this in the past, but my "proper" introduction to BattleTech was through Handbook: Major Periphery States.
One thing I find of note is how the inside covers of the various Handbooks present their respective factions. In the cases of House Kurita and House Liao, they each show an imposing throne room, designed to reflect the supreme authority of the Coordinator and Chancellor respectively. For House Davion and House Steiner, there are... also imposing throne rooms, projecting the image of power and status which the First Prince and Archon each aspire to. In the case of House Marik, the focus is instead on the Free Worlds Parliament, where the Captain-General has an elevated, yet restrained position relative to those with whom he (is supposed to) share power. And in the case of the major Periphery states, you see a lone Knight Errant, looking out at the open vista of a distant world, with the open frontier never far away.
Alas, things have not been great for the Periphery as of 3151. Only the Magistracy of Canopus has truly thrived, and that has been due to their close ties to the Confederation. (The MAF units seconded to Capellan space seem to have picked up quite a ruthless streak, relative to those deployed in the Magistracy proper.) Things seem to be on the up for the Taurians, but only after many decades of self-destructive decline. Those Outworlds not under Snow Raven control are left to fend for themselves. The Marians are learning the hard way what happens when a Periphery state without Great House or Clan backing tries to pick a fight outside of its weight class. The Rim Collection has evolved into the Timbuktu Collective, but might perhaps have post part of its soul in the process. And out in the coreward Deep Periphery, we now see that the Hanseatic League remains under the spectre of Clan conquest, only with the Scorpions replacing the Star Adders as the most pressing threat.
All of which helps explain one reason why I'm a fan of the Empires Aflame setting, where the presence of a powerful Terran faction is echoed by a set of viable major Periphery states.
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Maximilian's most important contribution was the building of the command circuit jumpship infrastructure, which not only would have enabled the Confederation to block a typical offensive, or raid (Which the 4th was not), but also restored the Confederation's ability to launch successful offensive operations. The CCAF itself improved in performance under his reign.
I was really hoping to get in with his greatest contribution being dying but you beat me in with a serious answer
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Military reputation is a funny thing. Because you might have some awesome units and mechs on the Marik equation, but the results from the Succession Wars are very mixed. Fighting the LC and the CC is not a way to find glory.
Similarly: consider the DC. Lore states that pilot for pilot, they may be the best mechwarriors in the inner sphere. Mech wise, the Draconis Combine Sourcebook says they pilot Dragons, Quickdraws, and Chargers? Ouch. Then take the Third Succession War. They get absolutely schlacked by the FedSuns and borders go nearly back to pre-Succession War status on that front. Reputation doesn't match the accomplishments. BattleTech history can be fickle and confusing that way.
DC pilots are superior pilots, the problem was that during the 4th SSW, they were operating almost completely solo. The Clans dueling fighting style was stated to be very similar to the Combine's of the 4th SSW. The big difference between the 4th and 3039 was Theodore's alterations to the Combine military and training. Whereas the Suns were more often not dueling Combiners, and the Combiners were in 4th, this allowed Combine pilots to be isolated and defeated. In 3039, the Combiners had learned about those tricks and were better at avoiding those traps.
Of course having a lot of SLDF gear and Space AT&T handing over a lot of the other side's mail helped, too.
FWL is the one faction that can say their loses are due to infighter rather than 'stupid pills' (without going into Rule 4 violating examples, stupid leaders are fare from unrealistic. Frustrating, yes but history is full of them)
It is being sucked in to that infighting which leads to the perception of the "stupid militarily" for the FWL. As I said, a lot of this perspective is from the early 31st Century where they aren't noted for having a lot of successes, and having to deal with Lyrans, who I also noted as not being that successful, either.
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The BT map is static until the 4th succession war. That means that all powers are basically paired in abilities and competence or lack thereof. Claims that the lyrans suck, davion is God or the fwl is an incompetent military do not fit with that. The lyrans maybe slightly more socne theor net result in the 3rd succession war is negative when it comes to controlled worlds, but not by much.
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ComStar has always been strange case in BTU. They do or don't do things based on what is they agenda at that time while pretending to be neutral. In both 4th SW and War of 3039 they interfied because they couldn't allow FedCom to win and unite IS with military might because it would had interfied with what ComStar was planning at that time (not to mention it would had killed 2 established major factions). And then there were Wobbies that are fanatics. Then again Jerome Blake wasn't very nice guy himself either so of course his followers would turn out that way.
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It is being sucked in to that infighting which leads to the perception of the "stupid militarily" for the FWL. As I said, a lot of this perspective is from the early 31st Century where they aren't noted for having a lot of successes, and having to deal with Lyrans, who I also noted as being that successful, either.
In the 1st decade of the 31st century, House Steiner engaged "Concentrated Weakness" where they placed extensive portions of the LCAF on the League's border. The League foiled the plan by launching a strong series of deep raids, which heavily damaged Lyran mech production.
In the early 31st century, they would also play a game of chess with the Commonwealth that nearly succeeded in taking Hesperus if not for one of the best mercenary units in the Inner Sphere fighting for the Elsies, the Eridani Light Horse. There was a loss due to an incompetent commander disobeying operational procedures, but that was more an outlier.
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Of all the Successor States, I always thought the LC and FWL were the most evenly matched, and I think the relative stasis of that border reflects that.
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Isn't the LC/FWL map boarder the one that used to have a HUGE spearhead path into the Lyrans back border area in the SL/1SW days that no longer exists in 3025?
At some point that must have cleaned that up.
I think when it comes to "skill" you can argue that the Kuritas & Davions are "fluffed" as having the best of that.
Either through hard core samurai discipline or a flexible military training regimen.
The real issue however is in raw size, industrial output, attention focus, & willingness to "break the rules".
No house can afford a 2-front war or a long term war. But some can handle it a little better than others.
Even the combined FedCom didn't want to deal w/ all 3 other houses in the Wo39 & when the others started to take notice & get active at the same time Teddy's fakes were going on, the AFFC decided to stand down.
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Bolan's Thumb
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Isn't the LC/FWL map boarder the one that used to have a HUGE spearhead path into the Lyrans back border area in the SL/1SW days that no longer exists in 3025?
During the 1st Succession War, the Lyran Commonwealth launched an unprovoked offensive to conquer the salient known as the Bolan Thumb--salients by definition are indefensible. They declared it to be a preemptive strike. Under international law, it would have been classified as a "Preventive strike." Preventive strikes are not preemptive strikes, the latter of which can be legal. Up until the Second Succession War, every single conflict involving the Free Worlds League, and Lyran Commonwealth was started by the Lyran Commonwealth.
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"The Bolan Thumb" is the correct reference, I think. Either way, it was eliminated early in the Succession Wars, and for grognards like me, that makes the Lyran/FWL border pretty much static.
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Bear something in mind when reading the Snord's Irregulars book, the cartoonish portrayal of Janos Marik befits the early portrayal of mercenaries as the romantic superheroes of the early BattleTech universe. Think of it as a comic.
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That tattoo on his head doesn't help (honestly, who at fasa thought that was a good idea? )
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That tattoo on his head doesn't help (honestly, who at fasa thought that was a good idea? )
You take that back.
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The BT map is static until the 4th succession war. That means that all powers are basically paired in abilities and competence or lack thereof. Claims that the lyrans suck, davion is God or the fwl is an incompetent military do not fit with that. The lyrans maybe slightly more socne theor net result in the 3rd succession war is negative when it comes to controlled worlds, but not by much.
And most of these odd perceptions are being pushed by the first half of the 31st Century, not the 1st through (most of) 3rd SSW, which I have stated a couple times now.
Realistically, the 3rd SSW really didn't see a lot of worlds changing hands, over all, and most of the ones that were easily reached in the 1st and 2nd tended to be made rather worthless for a century or three.
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Maximilian's most important contribution was the building of the command circuit jumpship infrastructure, which not only would have enabled the Confederation to block a typical offensive, or raid (Which the 4th was not), but also restored the Confederation's ability to launch successful offensive operations. The CCAF itself improved in performance under his reign.
Didn't Max also increase both the numbers of, and the prestige of the Warrior House's? And (at least nominally) unify command of the House's under one Master? It has been a long time since I read the House Liao sourcebook.
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FWL is not a democracy.
Until 3037 the FWL was a democracy.
Clause 9 of the Addendum to the Internal Emergency Act of 3030 (added 3037) robbed the parliament of its power over the captain-general. But until then...
Only the Marik family can be Captain-General, there are laws in the FWL that require it, I seem to recall.
That's a common misconception. There's no such law, there's only... tradition?
The Mariks only have the Right of First Refusal. It may be argued that de facto this means the same.
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FWL has all the trappings of. Parlamentarian monarchy.
It seems to be the most democratic (or libertarian) of all the successor States. But they are not a democracy.
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FWL ... seems to be the most democratic (or libertarian) of all the successor States.
I can live with that.
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Bear something in mind when reading the Snord's Irregulars book, the cartoonish portrayal of Janos Marik befits the early portrayal of mercenaries as the romantic superheroes of the early BattleTech universe. Think of it as a comic.
I always found it interesting how much faith was put into the mercenaries, even after they betrayed them. For example before they gave the Dragoons outreach they had the Snord's Irregulars check to make sure that there was not anything special there. They (Snord's) checked but not to do what they were being paid to do, but to find and locate all the stuff for the dragoons. What did the FC do when it became know that Snord's had lied to them? Not a thing, keep trusting them and all that.
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In all honesty, it was pretty stupid for the FC to need someone else to check out their own planet before leasing it out. That little bit of writing only exists to remind us that Snord and the Wolves where still in it together.
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That's a common misconception. There's no such law, there's only... tradition?
The Mariks only have the Right of First Refusal. It may be argued that de facto this means the same.
Resolution 288, passed under Kenyon, stated that only Mariks can become C-G's unless the Marik clan chooses to forgo their right.
It seems to be the most democratic (or libertarian) of all the successor States. But they are not a democracy.
Parliament does have a say in who becomes the C-G; the sitting C-G's heir does not automatically become the new C-G if another member of the Marik clan is still alive upon the sitting C-G's death.
Ultimately, this boils down to whether you consider an elective monarchy a democracy or not. I personally do - especially since the body that elects the C-G is elected into parliament - although of course it remains a flawed democracy with many limitations.
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Resolution 288, passed under Kenyon, stated that only Mariks can become C-G's unless the Marik clan chooses to forgo their right.
The difference between the Free Worlds League and other states is that that resolution can be repealed. Therefore, it is more a matter of being a norm. Parliament is fearful of overturning it due to popular backlash. Frankly, an important issue before the jihad was a movement to have Parliament remove the office of Captain-General. This was called The Great Debate. It did not have a big following, but it was present.
Parliament does have a say in who becomes the C-G; the sitting C-G's heir does not automatically become the new C-G if another member of the Marik clan is still alive upon the sitting C-G's death.
Ultimately, this boils down to whether you consider an elective monarchy a democracy or not. I personally do - especially since the body that elects the C-G is elected into parliament - although of course it remains a flawed democracy with many limitations.
In the United States, we used to elect Senators through our state legislatures. Whilst not a perfect equivalence, having the legislature elect an important post is far from undemocratic.
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Free Rasalhague Republic for me.
Or mercenary. Specifically the Lone Wolves because you can do pretty much anything with them. Also like Hansen's Roughriders because of MechWarrior 2.
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The difference between the Free Worlds League and other states is that that resolution can be repealed. Therefore, it is more a matter of being a norm. Parliament is fearful of overturning it due to popular backlash. Frankly, an important issue before the jihad was a movement to have Parliament remove the office of Captain-General. This was called The Great Debate. It did not have a big following, but it was present.
The only thing I'm arguing here is that it's codified in law, as the person I quoted above said there was no law. Whether you can repeal it or not doesn't take away from the fact that it remains a law.
In the United States, we used to elect Senators through our state legislatures. Whilst not a perfect equivalence, having the legislature elect an important post is far from undemocratic.
Agreed.
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The only thing I'm arguing here is that it's codified in law, as the person I quoted above said there was no law. Whether you can repeal it or not doesn't take away from the fact that it remains a law.
I think he simply misunderstood a post I made where I called it a norm. It is not binding to Parliament if they choose to overrule it. Heck, they could repeal it while selecting the Captain-General. In parliamentary systems, the legislature is supreme. Typically Parliaments avoid what could be interpreted as lawlessness, as the effects are more damaging to their power than helpful to their goals. Still, the British Parliament never repeals laws, they just pass new ones.
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Err... even if a law can be changed it does not change that it is a law, and you are bound by it until you change it. Marik C-G is law in the FWL. A stupid one, but law none the less.
Not being a lawyer, he no repeal of laws drives me nuts when I try to hunt down what norm applies to the case I am working in. I hate it when I am looking at an immigration case (for example) and parts of the applying Spanish law is in 12 different documents, some of them being from 1910. Specially when the new laws say that they modify this or that PARAGRAPH of an older law, but that is it.
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In layman's terms, the Parliament dominated courts would have to decide if the appointment of a non-Marik Captain-General constituted a repealing of the law. They would then ask for advice from Parliament.
Now Pandora's Gambit implies that the Marik name is of too much importance to the member-states by the 32nd century, though it was likely long a norm before then. Parliament would be forcing the states to choose which aspect is more defining to the League, which member-states would see as a false choice. Norms are powerful. They can be overridden, but it would be one hell of a move.
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In all honesty, it was pretty stupid for the FC to need someone else to check out their own planet before leasing it out. That little bit of writing only exists to remind us that Snord and the Wolves where still in it together.
I totally agree, just kind of pointing out how overused for lack of a better word the mercenaries were at some times. We need this planet checked out before we give it away, lets use someone who is know to be flighty, and not the most dependable (but an effective raider), rather than one of our own units (or even one from each side if you want).
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The Mac is a house regiment now, so go with your house. One for the CapCon.
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Resolution 288, passed under Kenyon, stated that only Mariks can become C-G's unless the Marik clan chooses to forgo their right.
As I stated: "The Mariks only have the Right of First Refusal. It may be argued that de facto this means the same."
And it's not the Marik clan, it's the elected Marik. If she/he rejects the election, the parliament is free in its next choice.
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:o You know after looking at the poll. WHY ARE TOP 3 factions crap on by the Power to Be. Now come on really take look at the Power To Be handle of our factions. ::) We all know that the Power To Be are BIG CAPPIE FAN BOYS. OK I'll calm down now. I ' am not surprise about Purple People Eater (Marik) be 2nd on the list its sad what happen to my Steiner house of late or heck look at the Fed Sun for that matter. Well I was Steiner first before I become a Grey Death Legion fan. I see there one for the GDL. Well as right now you have the Top 3 factions which is 1 Fed Sun 2 Marik 3 Steiner what more can I say.
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Clan Ghost Bear, now and forever. (Warning: Do not provoke or poke the bear or anything under its protection!)
Why, you ask?
First, the Bears have two faces. Usually they are like : "We are not your friends, but if you do not agitate us, you have nothing to fear." But IF anything or anyone is dumb enough to agitate them enough, it is like pressing a Berserk Button. They WILL trample the offender over with their full might, and in particularily bad cases, even nominal allies or neutrals that are in the way become collateral damage.
Second, another big reason is that they are the only Clan that allow an aspiring warrior who failed his/her Trial of Position a second chance, in another warrior sub caste based on their aptitude tests. They do not waste the huge amount of training that said aspiring warrior already recieved. The result of this is that there are much less frustrated failed trueborn in the lower castes. They also encourage lasting friendships in their warriors... even actual "relationships" are not unheard of. So they are maybe the only Clan which does not raise people who are methaphorical powder kegs waiting for a spark. Unlike any other Clan, Clan Ghost Bear is a family.
Third, CGB managed the first successful merger between a Clan and an IS nation, where over time more and more power was given to the Rasalhagian elected Prince, by now going so far that the Clan relinquished all of their non-warrior (many of which came from the Clan homeworlds) to regular Rasalhague civilian life! Okay, they cheated a bit here, keeping needed Scientists and Techs as a "warrior sub caste".
Yes, there are "freedom fighters/seditionists" like the Motstånd, just like there were under the Draconis Combine... or even under ComStar protection. But their actions had the opposite of the intended effect, leading to a closer and closer relationship between the Rasalhagians and the Ghost Bear. Now, they are called the Rasalhague Dominion, after the Ghost Bears took worlds percieved as belonging to Rasalhague from other Clans, and even House Kurita, while ignoring others. On the current map of the IS, the Dominion looks almost exactly like the former FRR plus a section of the pheriphery and the Vega Protectorate.
And the animal Ghost Bear was successfully settled on at least one Dominion world. ^^
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When you say "Worker", do you mean laborer and technician, or everything other than warrior? ???
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I accidentally posted too early, the post is now edited to explain your question. But for your convenience: nominally everyone other than Warriors. But there are now Warrior-Tech and Warrior-Scientist subcastes. ^-^
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Ah, thanks for the clarification! :thumbsup:
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Clan Ghost Bear, now and forever. (Warning: Do not provoke or poke the bear or anything under its protection!)
<snip>
Great synopsis, you've articulated my own reasons for favouring CGB / RD better than I could :thumbsup:
The way the warriors have shared power with the civilians is, IMHO, not only makes for a more efficient society overall but is arguably closest in line with Aleksander Kerensky's ideals of any Clan (on the other hand Nicholas Kerensky would be spinning in his grave but luckily the Bears didn't read Betrayal of Ideals or Fall from Glory).
Hadn't thought of it before now, but you're right about the Bears' efficiency in having two Trials of Position. The Hell's Horses also do it but even they relegate second-timers to secondary services.
One question: where is the info on these 'warrior-scientist' and 'warrior-tech' sub-castes you've alluded to?
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Sadly it is all third party information, read on this forum from people who read a sourcebook, novel et cetera. The "warrior-subcaste" thing is from another post I've read only recently, but I can't remember where. Probably the official Ghost Bear lair in the Chatterweb subsection of the forums Clan section. ^-^
Touring the Stars looks to have some useful information, at least.
It suggests that the Clan lower castes were emancipated and became part of Rasalhague. The Clan caste system has effectively ceased to exist in the Dominion. Only the warrior caste still exists, and even then only sort of. The Ghost Bear civilians have been merged - or perhaps more accurately submerged, since they would have been outnumbered by a truly preposterous amount - into Rasalhague and are no longer classified into castes or subjected to a breeding programme.
I get the impression that there are still enclaves of trueborn warriors, and it reads almost as if there are two parallel Dominion militaries: the Clan trueborn half and the Rasalhagian free half. Both halves are now represented equally on the Dominion Council, leading to a rather awkward situation where the Dominion is governed by three voices: Clan warriors, Rasalhagian soldiers, and civilians. Even the Rasalhagian half of the military, though, looks to be organised along Clan lines; galaxies, clusters, and so on. On the more positive side, traditional Rasalhagian military formations, like the Tyr, Freemen, Drakons, etc., have been recreated within a larger Clan-like system.
So it looks to me like what we have, in essence, is a Rasalhagian state that has adopted several Clan practices and rejected others, into which the bulk of Clan Ghost Bear has dissolved. The Ghost Bear touman is now a component of a general Rasalhagian military, which now organises itself along Clan lines. Presumably Clan trueborn now live in a somewhat isolated subculture. I wonder what sorts of rivalries exist between the trueborn military and the native-born military?
I also wonder a lot about Clan-descended civilians. They are extraordinarily different cultures; I can't imagine it was easy for them to be assimilated into Rasalhague.
How so? What did it change for ordinary people? The title of the guy in charge isn't that important in itself.
So, paraphrased from another post: Shrapnel Issue One is an interesting story regarding the Ghost Bears and their IS conquests that sheds some light. Also the novel Trial by Chaos seems to be a good source on this topic.
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Argh, too many options.
Uh, quick, pick one... ok, the Republic of the Sphere. Embodies the Dark Age, they get quite a bit of cool tech and 'Mechs, not to mention having access to most faction stuff in some numbers. Practical.
I like some principles behind the Republic, even if some stuff hasn't worked out in practice, not to mention enforcement of some rules being dubious.
Also, despite their apparent strength, they are an underdog faction, thanks to their awkward locations in middle of everything.
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It is third party information, read on this forum. The "warrior-subcaste" thing is from another post I've read only recently, but I can't remember where. :-\
Cool, thanks for sharing!
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Yeah, Clan Ghost Bear is a rock-solid Clan to get into if you're a fan of the FRR and prefer a more liberal-ish faction. Personally, I like their Crusader era, because I prefer their OmniMechs and tactics. The high heat and insane amount of weapons variants (like the Executioner D) are fun to play.
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Cool, thanks for sharing!
Found it! It's actually right there on Sarna. :))
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rasalhague_Dominion (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rasalhague_Dominion)
Under the subsection culture we can read:
"Some time after the Jihad, Clan Ghost Bear's Khans and touman had integrated itself into Dominion deeply after relinquishing control of its civilian castes (with the exception of the Technician and Scientist Castes, which were embedded into the Warrior Caste as Warrior-Technician and Warrior-Scientist subcastes in the Clan Touman) and handing civilian affairs over to the First Prince and the Dominion Council. By 3145, although groups such as Motstånd and the Freeminders maintained some resistance to the Clan overlords, the Dominion had otherwise successfully integrated the two societies." :thumbsup:
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Argh, too many options.
Uh, quick, pick one... ok, the Republic of the Sphere. Embodies the Dark Age, they get quite a bit of cool tech and 'Mechs, not to mention having access to most faction stuff in some numbers. Practical.
I like some principles behind the Republic, even if some stuff hasn't worked out in practice, not to mention enforcement of some rules being dubious.
Also, despite their apparent strength, they are an underdog faction, thanks to their awkward locations in middle of everything.
Like the Republic myself. Our introduction was the faction falling apart but it has been a hell of a show watching it happen.
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Sadly it is all third party information, read on this forum from people who read a sourcebook, novel et cetera. The "warrior-subcaste" thing is from another post I've read only recently, but I can't remember where. Probably the official Ghost Bear lair in the Chatterweb subsection of the forums Clan section. ^-^
For what it's worth, I'm a fan of Free Rasalhague and of Motstand, and the Ghost Bears are probably my least favourite Clan. So I advise you to take anything I say about the Ghost Bears with a grain of salt.
I don't actually like any of the Clans that much - Cobras and Scorpions are probably my favourites - and if it were up to me, the Clans, like the Word of Blake, would have been the villains for a major plot arc and then been removed from the game. The proliferation of the Clans has been a problem, I think, and I'm increasingly irritated by the way that, well into the Dark Age, the Clans are gradually colonising the Inner Sphere and integrating themselves with every faction.
But even given that, in my opinion the Bears are particularly bad. My favourite invading clans are probably the Falcons and the Jaguars, the unapologistic clan purists, while the ones I dislike most are the Bears and the Sharks; the clans whose major defining feature seems to be the fact that don't take the clan way seriously. I have very little time for the Bears firstly because, like the Sharks, they disregard key parts of the clan way and suffer no consequences for it, and secondly because, unlike most of the other clans, they never seem to suffer any meaningful defeats. (I once made an entire topic (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63335.0) whining about this. ;)) I've been waiting for a long time for the Dragon to tame the Bears the way they tamed the Jaguars and the Cats before them. Hopefully one day I'll get my wish, and the Draconis Combine will re-establish their deserved reputation as the most skilled, capable warriors in the Inner Sphere.
Also, Free Rasalhague! Rasalhague was great, and I am very sad that now it's been absorbed and replaced by the Bears. I feel the same way about the Outworlds Alliance and the Ravens. Please stop eating up more interesting Inner Sphere factions, clans. :(
Anyway...
For me, I voted for the Federated Suns. When I first came across BattleTech, I actually gravitated to the Lyran Commonwealth, and I'm still a fan of the Lyrans to an extent, but the problem I had with them was that the Lyrans, well, never really seemed to even want to win that much. I can handle my faction losing - the Federated Suns has famously not won a war since 3028 - but I do need a sense that my faction is at least trying to win. I want them to have their skin in the game, and to always fight with all the strength at their disposal. What eventually turned me off the Lyrans was the sense that, not only were they not winning, they didn't even care that much. Ho hum, we lost another dozen worlds, oh well, pass the schnapps.
The Federated Suns have that lovely knightly flavour (I love Arthurian legend), they have a relatively sympathetic cause but are still more than willing to act aggressively and launch an invasion if they the chance, and they are always in it to win it. The Suns were the most popular faction at the game's launch and there were some writing issues then, of course. I'll be the first to admit that the Suns suffered from being the designated good guys, and the Dracs and Capellans got shafted. I actually quite like the Combine as well, and the Capellans... are extremely dependent on interpretation and easy to do badly, but otherwise respectable rivals. However, as time has gone on, I feel that a lot of those issues have been corrected, and the Suns have evolved into a more nuanced, interesting faction.
As it is, the Federated Suns has a long, compelling, and dramatic history in the game's background, two similarly-interesting rivals with which it has entertaining conflicts, some great flavour - I really dig the combination of feudal imperialism, a sort of Angevin/Carolingian fusion, and American-style crusading for freedom and democracy - and a lot of good mechs. Everyone likes a good autocannon, right?
There's a silly song by an old Australian comedy duo that I always associate with the Federated Suns. It's called 'Free', and it goes like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sieb0K53jXQ).
The Federated Suns are great. Bigger and stronger and tougher than anyone else. We are your friends. But if you push us...
We will push you back, twice as hard.
Because we're free. :P
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For what it's worth, I'm a fan of Free Rasalhague and of Motstand, and the Ghost Bears are probably my least favourite Clan. So I advise
For me, I voted for the Federated Suns. When I first came across BattleTech, I actually gravitated to the Lyran Commonwealth, and I'm still a fan of the Lyrans to an extent, but the problem I had with them was that the Lyrans, well, never really seemed to even want to win that much. I can handle my faction losing - the Federated Suns has famously not won a war since 3028 - but I do need a sense that my faction is at least trying to win. I want them to have their skin in the game, and to always fight with all the strength at their disposal. What eventually turned me off the Lyrans was the sense that, not only were they not winning, they didn't even care that much. Ho hum, we lost another dozen worlds, oh well, pass the schnapps.
Lyran grand strategy was commonly misread, but far from stupid. The Lyran Commonwealth sought to conquer the Free Worlds League. If they had succeeded in taking primary League manufacturing worlds, the other states would not been able to hold them off for long.
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Smoke Jaguar, of curse
more liao,
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Just wanted to pipe in on the Snords and Outreach.
I see three reasons for Hanse hiring the Snords.
1) the manufactured feud between Cranston and Jamie. Without knowing it was a ruse they'd be on the list of 'people to check' because of
2) Snord's Irregulars unique skill at finding antiques. They'd also be the most likely to report "Looks like there's a cache of Battlemechs there. Oh, and we found a stash of Martial Olympiad medals!" Because of the feud, Hanse would feel safe that Snord wouldn't hold out and
3) He's admitting that the NAIS could have missed something. Which makes sense, Look at all the tech (Helm Core, Library, etc) that was overlooked by people in the past.
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Just wanted to pipe in on the Snords and Outreach.
I see three reasons for Hanse hiring the Snords.
1) the manufactured feud between Cranston and Jamie. Without knowing it was a ruse they'd be on the list of 'people to check' because of
2) Snord's Irregulars unique skill at finding antiques. They'd also be the most likely to report "Looks like there's a cache of Battlemechs there. Oh, and we found a stash of Martial Olympiad medals!" Because of the feud, Hanse would feel safe that Snord wouldn't hold out and
3) He's admitting that the NAIS could have missed something. Which makes sense, Look at all the tech (Helm Core, Library, etc) that was overlooked by people in the past.
On one hand I can understand what you are saying, and even to a point agree with it. More what I was saying is that when it came out that not only did they not fulfill there contract, they flat out lied to their employers. This I can understand as we know the back story behind them that was not know in universe, but there being no ramifications, this I can not understand.
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Looking at the poll results does seem to suggest to me that the time has come for the IlClan..... what do you guys think?
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That's not what I see, but to each their own. More "historical" 3025! :thumbsup:
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More what I was saying is that when it came out that not only did they not fulfill there contract, they flat out lied to their employers. This I can understand as we know the back story behind them that was not know in universe, but there being no ramifications, this I can not understand.
Which causes me to wonder....
Has Snord's Clan origins and their real connection with Wolfs Dragoons ever become in-universe knwledge?
I mean we all know it out of the sourcebooks, but I so mit recall any in-universe event having Snord admitting to their past....
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Which causes me to wonder....
Has Snord's Clan origins and their real connection with Wolfs Dragoons ever become in-universe knwledge?
I mean we all know it out of the sourcebooks, but I so mit recall any in-universe event having Snord admitting to their past....
Had to look, On Sarna there is a mention that he was "detailed in 3006 to search for SLDF bases under the cover of having been discharged from the Dragoons after having left his post to search for artworks during a battle on Royal." but no citation of the source.
If that was his 'official' backstory then I'd guess people 'know' that he's clan and would at least doubt that cover story after REVIVAL.
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Can I pick the Terran Alliance? ??? All the factions I liked are either dead, close to it, or so changed the might as well be.
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:o WOW !!! I see the top 3 have not change 1 Davion 2 Marik 3 Steiner . What shock me is the Clans at the moment. Ghost Bear are top #1 right now. I know I' am not big fan of the Clans but I have soft spot for the Wolverine . We shell see what come of it
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For the IS i go with the Steiners. I know there is a lack some sane leadership, but they a thing for heavier and assaul Meks i also prefer.
Second would be Davion, i liked the idea of the alliance between these houses and ist a shame that they are now in shambles.
For the clans i go with the (Warden) Wolves, ever since i played MW2.
Lately i have gotten into into the Ghost Bears heavyly, so they ware my number 2 choice.
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Fed Suns is popular true but will be greatly diminished in the Dark Age . Much like the diminished British Empire in the 20 th century. It is unlikely to be destroyed completely as everyone has a stronger interest in taking down the Republic of the Sphere . The only reason people moved to killing the Fed Com is it became the low hanging fruit because the fortress walls went up . It also became the Republic's proxy outside of the walls . As soon as the walls came down it was just a target of opportunity because by that time all the boardering factions already mostly took the territory the historically ever had a prior claim of and then some . Suspect both the Fed Suns will survive the Dark Age . The Republic of the Sphere not sure at all . As for the Society I suspect they might become behind the scenes kingmakers in places like the Marion Hegemony or other such place .
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St. Ives Compact
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I voted 'Other' as there is no Periphery faction listed.