Whatwill be a good lineup of Steiner mechs for a newbie?

[Redlord320]

My brother  likes house Steiner and would like a to know a good starting line up for a pickup game.

[MarauderCH IIC]

Zeus and Atlas

[wildkadabra]

4 Atlases for a standard Steiner recon lance.

2 Atlases and 2 Fafnirs for a standard Steiner hit and run lance.

1 Atlas 1 Fafnir 1 Devastator and 1 Berserker for a standard Steiner cavalry lance.

4 Zeuses if you need to bring battle armor to support the previous lance formations.

Remember the sacred motto:
"You can do things the wrong way, you can do things the right way, or you can do it the Steiner way.... which is just the wrong way but with assault mechs!"

[worktroll]

While the "thundering herd" jokes have a certain validity, the Lyrans have some of the finest light and medium 'Mechs in the 3020-3030 period. Cases:

The Commando. Punches way above its weight. Fast, but without jumpjets, not as maneuverable as a Stinger - but hits so much harder.
The Wolfhound. Optimised for battling light to medium 'Mechs, and a zombie to boot.
The Hatchetman. Yes, it's not optimised, but it's surprising how much fear that little hatchet can inspire. Don't let it get in your back arc!
Axeman. A bigger Hatchetman. I prefer the AC-20 version, YMMV (the LRM version does give you something to do while closing)

They've also got access to the best of most other states, plus some home-grown variants that are good, like

Phoenix Hawk 3S. Great striker/brawler, and scout-mech-killer par excellence
Griffin 1S - another great striker/brawler
Archer 2S. Moves the Archer from fire-support to battle role. And has plenty to do while closing on the enemy!
Battlemaster 1S - now a heavily armoured fire support that can take care of itself
Banshee 3S - capable of giving Atlases a run for their money

And this is just mainly late Succession Wars period!

[ckosacranoid]

Do not forget the commandos as infantry support for the recon and the other Macy's. Maybe a couple of fire started for burning for no reason.

[Sartris]

I'll assume since he's new that it's going to be introtech. Here's some LCAF staples

these are just on the fly from my own experiences. keep your pitchforks and torches stowed in the wagon.

Exceptional
------------
Wolfhound 1
Griffin 1N
Banshee 3S

Good
------
Phoenix Hawk 1
Griffin 1S
Crusader 3R
Thunderbolt 5S
Thunderbolt 5SS
Archer 2R
Archer 2S
Warhammer 6R
Flashman 7K
Zeus 6S
BattleMaster 1G
Stalker 3F

Decent
--------
Commando 2D
Firestarter M "Mirage"
Hatchetman 3F
Hunchback 4G
Shadow Hawk 2H
Charger SB "Challenger" (if nothing else for the laughs)
Victor 9S
Battlemaster 1S

[worktroll]

Sartris covers more ground than my recollections, but by now it should be clear you only have to field the "thundering herd" if you want to.

[JPArbiter]

During the 3rd and 4th succession wars the Lyrans manufactured and maintained low tech highlanders, flashmen, and even limited runs of exterminators

In addition to commandos and bugs, the elsies made use of firestarters to great effect

The 2nd Lyran Guard during the Star Leauge was an urban combat unit made up of firestarters and Hunchbacks.

During the clan invasion the Lyrans introduced the axman, Bushwacker, berserker, falconer, penetrator, caesar, specter, and Talon

[Sartris]

Sartris covers more ground than my recollections, but by now it should be clear you only have to field the "thundering herd" if you want to.

yeah don't fall for the meme.

during this time the LCAF is starting to get access to Davion designs as well due to the marriage of the two states.

You could consider the Valkyrie, Enforcer, Dervish, Ostsol 4F, or Victor 9B.

There are also good Davion-exclusive variants of common mechs like the Blackjack 1DB, Phoenix Hawk 1D, Rifleman 3C, Marauder 3D, and Battlemaster 1D

During the clan invasion the Lyrans introduced the axman, Bushwacker, berserker, falconer, penetrator, caesar, specter, and Talon

also the Scarabus, Night Hawk, Stiletto, Hollander, Blitzkrieg, Nightsky , Barghest, Salamander, Hauptmann Omni, Berserker, and Thunder Hawk

[SteelRaven]

While I'm a fan of Heavies in general, the Thunderbolt is solid and the Lyrans have the TDR-5SS and I believe Eridani Light Horse got their own TDR-5SE while under contract with House Steiner.

It gives you options like sharing range brackets with other heavies like the Archer or Zeus (well, the Zeus fights like a heavy) Lighter mechs like the Griffin or fatties like the Banshee 3S.

Lyrans also produced the Flashman FLS-7K after 2796 and through the SW when the capabilities to keep the FLS-8K in production was lost.   

   

[Colt Ward]

Is he a part of the Kickstarter?  buying IWM minis?  or already have the two retail boxes?

Basically, what is his source of mechs?

[Daryk]

Commandos are the very definition of glass cannons... way too much offense combined with way too little defense...

[Greatclub]

Don't hesitate to get a classic banshee mini. It's not great in introtech, but later you can play it as a -6S (Heavy gauss & LB10X) and still be WYSIWYG. It's hilarious when you see people realize what just happened. 

[Sartris]

Yeah that thing breaks faces

[BoyOfSummer]

Don't hesitate to get a classic banshee mini. It's not great in introtech

The Steiner Banshee is great!

A top tier in the ranks of the introtech assaults.

[Wolf72]

Commandos are the very definition of glass cannons... way too much offense combined with way too little defense...

The creed of the light mech!

I like the Zeus for intro stuff: AC, LRM, Laser -- good monster.

[MarauderD]

Well, you've got a ton of good answers so far.  As for a pick up game, I don't know how large a force we're talking.  I'm also going to make an assumption that we are talking Succession Wars technology base.  So this post is mostly only helpful in that setting:

Light lances in the LC are built around the Commando.  Its a great striker, but fragile. 

Medium lances in the LC are actually chalk full of great mechs.  Griffin-1S would be plentiful, as well as the Phoenix Hawk and all of the other classic four.  (Wolverine and Shadow Hawk)

Heavy lances will show the greatest variety of mechs, because so many are produced in the LC.  I would expect to see an Archer in every company, if not every lance.

Assault lances are built around the Zeus, which is a serviceable 80 ton assault with good long range firepower. 

I base most of this off of the "typical Commonwealth Units" page in the House Steiner:  The Lyran Commonwealth source book.  This source predates some things like the Wolfhound light mech that comes into play in the late 3020s.

Steiner forces are really fun to play, because it really doesn't have to be the 'Thundering Herd' mentality. Steiner medium and light lances are great fun.  Then again, nothing like taking a couple Zeus, a Steiner Banshee (they are totally amazing in 3025), and an Atlas against a company of lights (favorite weight class of the Kuritan enemy, FYI!) and seeing what happens.

Cheers and enjoy your pickup game

[guardiandashi]

4 Atlases for a standard Steiner recon lance.

2 Atlases and 2 Fafnirs for a standard Steiner hit and run lance.

1 Atlas 1 Fafnir 1 Devastator and 1 Berserker for a standard Steiner cavalry lance.

4 Zeuses if you need to bring battle armor to support the previous lance formations.

Remember the sacred motto:
"You can do things the wrong way, you can do things the right way, or you can do it the Steiner way.... which is just the wrong way but with assault mechs!"

Actually a steiner "recon lance" is an Atlas, Banshee, Awesome, and Zeus. and if they are lucky, they have an attached unit of Commando Battlearmor.

[Colt Ward]

I love some of the 3060s medium line up- I think its one of the best in the game at the period.  Nightskys, Uziels, Enfields, Griffin 6S, Steiner Phoenix Hawks . . . Spectors . . . and then AFFC leftovers like Stealth, Centurions, Enforcers, and Dervish.

[Hellraiser]

So,  a pick up game,  for a new player,  that likes the Lyrans.....


WolfHound-1
Griffin-1S
Thunderbolt-5SS
Zeus-6S


1 mech for each weight range, upper end for the babies, lower end for the big kids,  all in Lyran flavor.

Close speed for working in pairs,  and,  a solid Jumper to showcase JJs.

Examples of just about every weapon type....... LRM, AC, PPC, LL, ML, SRM, Flamer


And the entire lance fits into a 5K BV game with enough left over for a couple platoons of infantry.

[ANS Kamas P81]

COM-2D Commando, WLF-1 Wolfhound, HCT-3F Hatchetman, and GRF-1S Griffin for barely under 3600 BV, if you want a lighter and relatively faster unit.  For a heavier force, I suggest ARC-2S Archer, TDR-5SS Thunderbolt, ZEU-6T Zeus with either a Hatchetman (5020 BV), BNC-3S Banshee (5917 BV), or a second generic TDR-5S Thunderbolt (5501 BV).

Or buy into the meme and a short lance of an AS7-D Atlas, BNC-3S, and ZEU-6S Zeus for an even 4997 BV. you'll give up one 'Mech but end up with a doombubble between two longer-ranged combatants.  Considering the firepower involved I'd say you've got an even chance of beatsticking your opponent even down a man; 35 LRMs, 2 PPCs, an AC/10, and an LL is a lot of mid-long range firepower.  Compare to that medium-heavy lance above...yeah, you'd lay some hurt down with a lot of armor to absorb return fire.

And then the AC-20 comes into play  >:D

[RazorclawXLS]

I am going to hijack this thread for a bit, because I am basically in the same boat as the OP, with the added stipulation that I am bound by the mechs I am receiving from the kickstarter.

Currently I have one AGOAC boxset, all painted up in Lyran Guards livery, with another AGOAC and Beginner's Boxset on their way. From the kickstarter I am expecting the Command and Battle Lance. I don't intend to use all the IS mechs for Lyran Guards, I have plans to create small forces that I plan to paint and use as DC and Mercenaries, for some added flavor.

So here's what I came up with for my Lyran Guards reinforced company:

#1
Command Lance:             Battle Lance:             Fire Support Lance:             Striker/Pursuit Lance:
- Marauder                      - Warhammer            - Awesome                         - Phoenix Hawk
- Battlemaster                 - Thunderbolt             - Archer                             - Valkyrie
- Wolverine                     - Rifleman                  - Catapult                           - Commando
- Locust                          - Shadow Hawk          - Griffin                              - Wasp

I am looking for feedback on this lance structure. My leading principle for the above was to make use of all the mechs I already painted, along with the mechs yet to come. I was thinking of getting a couple of Wolfhounds to replace the Locust and the Wasp.

I am kinda reluctant to do that, as I am left with a bunch of "light" lights - Wasp, Stinger and two Locusts - to divide between the planned DC and Mercs forces. Any suggestions on how to divide the second AGOAC set and the lights I mentioned between the DC and Mercs? I am thinking of ordering some more mechs for the DC and mercs, so any good suggestions on what other mechs to get is highly appreciated.

[Daryk]

Well, as far as the initial lay down, I'd recommend swapping the Locust and Valkyrie.  That would mean the Striker/Pursuit Lance could move at 6/9/0 at a minimum, without slowing the Command Lance.

[Elmoth]

I like groing the mechs by speed brackets first, and fire capablities as a second thing. Otherwise all your lkances move slower, at the speed of the slowest mech in the lance. Having all-jumpy lances also help if you can.

So I would say:
COMMAND: Battlemaster, Marauder, Awesome, Warhammer/rifleman
FIRE SUPPORT: Archer, Catapult, thunderbolt, Rifleman/warhammer
BATTLE: Wolverine, Griffin, Shadow hawk, Valkyrie
RECON: Phenix Hawk, commando, wasp, locust

The weak link in the whole force is the Awesome. It drags down the command lance and is a poor choice for a fire support unit unles you want for direct fire, with the awesome and Warhammer together.

The battle lance is 5/8 and all jump so is very manouverable. look at alternative configurations for the mechs, like the griffin 1S and wolverine 6M or a more brawler unit.

Hope that helps. Is not that different form what you are telling us, but tries to group the mechs by role. THe mechs in the fire suport and command lances can be swapped quite freely, really, since they are the slow mechs and all have weapon loadouts that can perform well in a multitude of approaches.

[guardiandashi]

I like groing the mechs by speed brackets first, and fire capablities as a second thing. Otherwise all your lkances move slower, at the speed of the slowest mech in the lance. Having all-jumpy lances also help if you can.

So I would say:
COMMAND: Battlemaster, Marauder, Awesome, Warhammer/rifleman
FIRE SUPPORT: Archer, Catapult, thunderbolt, Rifleman/warhammer
BATTLE: Wolverine, Griffin, Shadow hawk, Valkyrie
RECON: Phenix Hawk, commando, wasp, locust

The weak link in the whole force is the Awesome. It drags down the command lance and is a poor choice for a fire support unit unles you want for direct fire, with the awesome and Warhammer together.

The battle lance is 5/8 and all jump so is very manouverable. look at alternative configurations for the mechs, like the griffin 1S and wolverine 6M or a more brawler unit.

Hope that helps. Is not that different form what you are telling us, but tries to group the mechs by role. THe mechs in the fire suport and command lances can be swapped quite freely, really, since they are the slow mechs and all have weapon loadouts that can perform well in a multitude of approaches.

it might sound odd but I would consider swapping a couple mechs around actually

I would consider a few alternate lance configurations
command: Battlemaster, Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman   this actually turns it into a direct fire command/support lance

Support Awesome, Archer, Catapult thunderbolt and possibly using the LRM equipped awesome instead of the 3x ppc one its frankly not as good, in most ways as the 3x ppc awesome but it goes with the LRM support lance, or use the 3x ppc Awesome as the "point man/bodyguard" for the lance IE have the awesome move up from the 3 LRM heavy mechs, and try to slow/spoil people trying to get under LRM minimum range and make people have to worry about their rear arcs.

which is worse turning your back on a 3x ppc awesome? or 3x mechs packing multiple LRM 15/20's

[RazorclawXLS]

Well, as far as the initial lay down, I'd recommend swapping the Locust and Valkyrie.  That would mean the Striker/Pursuit Lance could move at 6/9/0 at a minimum, without slowing the Command Lance.

I was thinking about doing this, but then I lose a fair chunk of damage from the pursuit lance. Or maybe not?

I like groing the mechs by speed brackets first, and fire capablities as a second thing. Otherwise all your lkances move slower, at the speed of the slowest mech in the lance. Having all-jumpy lances also help if you can.

So I would say:
COMMAND: Battlemaster, Marauder, Awesome, Warhammer/rifleman
FIRE SUPPORT: Archer, Catapult, thunderbolt, Rifleman/warhammer
BATTLE: Wolverine, Griffin, Shadow hawk, Valkyrie
RECON: Phenix Hawk, commando, wasp, locust

The weak link in the whole force is the Awesome. It drags down the command lance and is a poor choice for a fire support unit unles you want for direct fire, with the awesome and Warhammer together.

The battle lance is 5/8 and all jump so is very manouverable. look at alternative configurations for the mechs, like the griffin 1S and wolverine 6M or a more brawler unit.

Hope that helps. Is not that different form what you are telling us, but tries to group the mechs by role. THe mechs in the fire suport and command lances can be swapped quite freely, really, since they are the slow mechs and all have weapon loadouts that can perform well in a multitude of approaches.

I was going with requirements from the Alpha Strike force composition rules when I was thinking up the lance structure, trying to keep the speed the same between the majority of the lance members.

Your Command lance can be used as an Assault lance, which is nice bonus. Your Battle lance would be considered a Striker Lance by AS rules. I'm gonna mull over this as I like this, though I am not fond of concentrating all "the big boys" in one lance.

[RazorclawXLS]

Support Awesome, Archer, Catapult thunderbolt and possibly using the LRM equipped awesome instead of the 3x ppc one its frankly not as good, in most ways as the 3x ppc awesome but it goes with the LRM support lance, or use the 3x ppc Awesome as the "point man/bodyguard" for the lance IE have the awesome move up from the 3 LRM heavy mechs, and try to slow/spoil people trying to get under LRM minimum range and make people have to worry about their rear arcs.

The Thunderbolt in that setup is more a bodyguard than the Awesome, imo. Which is the reason why I wanted Griffin in that lance, to provide bodyguard service, while Awesome plays obvious sniper to deal damage and attract attention, while also providing long range support for the other mechs in the fire support lance.

[Colt Ward]

Yeah, is this for AS or TW?  Its a important point.

[Elmoth]

Seems to be Alpha Strike-based, acording to the OP's last message aboit AS lance composition requirements.

Going with my suggestions, the command and fire support lances have a TMM of 1, striker a TMM of 2, and recon of TMM 2-3. The last one is not really a pursit lance, but a recon lance. it does not pack enough punch to really be a pursuit one.

[Colt Ward]

Seems to be Alpha Strike-based, acording to the OP's last message aboit AS lance composition requirements.

Going with my suggestions, the command and fire support lances have a TMM of 1, striker a TMM of 2, and recon of TMM 2-3. The last one is not really a pursit lance, but a recon lance. it does not pack enough punch to really be a pursuit one.

Alpha Strike formations are the recommended path for building cohesive lances, which I think is BMM or CampOps, for those beginning to explore putting together forces.