Author Topic: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes  (Read 3469 times)

Dahmin_Toran

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ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« on: 11 June 2020, 11:30:06 »
Right now it seems that ProtoMechs are only used for Trueborn Aerospace pilots. Could ProtoMechs be retooled for use my Trueborn Mechwarriors or Elementals? What about Freeborn (Clan) pilots? What about Inner Sphere people?

AlphaMirage

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #1 on: 11 June 2020, 11:42:59 »
Its not that the Aerospace trueborns are the only ones that can operate it.  It's just that the Aerospace phenotype is more resistant to EI's negative effects.  If you can fit in the very small cockpit and don't mind going crazy in a year rather than three from the EI you can be a proto pilot.  If the WOB had access to the tech necessary (outside of Nightmare on Necromo) to make it you can bet they would make some cyborg protomonsters that would die gloriously to fight the Clan threat (or their allies)

GreekFire

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #2 on: 11 June 2020, 11:49:29 »
Right now it seems that ProtoMechs are only used for Trueborn Aerospace pilots. Could ProtoMechs be retooled for use my Trueborn Mechwarriors or Elementals? What about Freeborn (Clan) pilots? What about Inner Sphere people?

It depends on the ProtoMech. The fluff for the Svartalfa specifically states that its cockpit is 50% larger than the norm, allowing for those with Elemental phenotypes to pilot it if need be. For most Protos, though, I’d argue that it’s likely impossible for larger pilots to fit in the cockpit due to the very constrained nature of most designs.
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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #3 on: 11 June 2020, 12:12:53 »
It depends on the ProtoMech. The fluff for the Svartalfa specifically states that its cockpit is 50% larger than the norm, allowing for those with Elemental phenotypes to pilot it if need be. For most Protos, though, I’d argue that it’s likely impossible for larger pilots to fit in the cockpit due to the very constrained nature of most designs.
There's a BattleCorps serial written by Randall, titled "Tears of Blood". In it a 'MechWarrior climbs into a Proto cockpit and just barely fit. Aerospace pilots were chosen for Protos partly for their size.
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Mecha82

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #4 on: 11 June 2020, 12:15:28 »
Reason why most ProtoMechs are piloted by Aeropace phenotypes is because of they size. They are only ones small enough to fit into most ProtoMechs. For ProtoMech to fit any other phenotype it would need to have bigger cockpit like mentioned Svartalfa has. But most of time that's not practical thing to do considering how small ProtoMechs tend to be and how those are controlled.
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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #5 on: 11 June 2020, 12:22:38 »
Reason why most ProtoMechs are piloted by Aeropace phenotypes is because of they size. They are only ones small enough to fit into most ProtoMechs. For ProtoMech to fit any other phenotype it would need to have bigger cockpit like mentioned Svartalfa has. But most of time that's not practical thing to do considering how small ProtoMechs tend to be and how those are controlled.
UltraProtos have bigger cockpits, so we need more UltraProtos.  >:D
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Dahmin_Toran

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #6 on: 11 June 2020, 13:17:46 »
So if the cockpit was bigger, more people could use it?

Fat Guy

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #7 on: 11 June 2020, 13:20:10 »
Didn't the Spirits and Cobras go a step further and create a specific Phenotype for ProtoMechs?
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Colt Ward

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #8 on: 11 June 2020, 13:22:42 »
There's a BattleCorps serial written by Randall, titled "Tears of Blood". In it a 'MechWarrior climbs into a Proto cockpit and just barely fit. Aerospace pilots were chosen for Protos partly for their size.

Yeah, Sean Campbell . . . wish I still had that story but all the BC stuff was untouchable.

To me, it would make sense for the Clan's attitudes to convert badly injured mechwarriors- perhaps even ones that lost arms, eyes or legs and unable to recover as MW- into Proto pilots.

Larger cockpit would mean that you could put mechwarrior phenotypes or freebirths, but they are going to suffer the EI problem more.

Honestly, the big Proto users (or in the period some Clans used protos) just had to crank up their pilot sibkos . . . pilot phenotypes crew other things than ASF- warships, DS, small craft, conventional fighters and VTOLs (last 2 for the 'space sick') as well as ending up in the ProtoCorps.  Might be why the Ravens built a excellent new VTOL- Gossamer 2 would be great for VTOL-VTOL combat.
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HABeas2

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #9 on: 11 June 2020, 15:36:18 »
Its not that the Aerospace trueborns are the only ones that can operate it.  It's just that the Aerospace phenotype is more resistant to EI's negative effects.  If you can fit in the very small cockpit and don't mind going crazy in a year rather than three from the EI you can be a proto pilot.  If the WOB had access to the tech necessary (outside of Nightmare on Necromo) to make it you can bet they would make some cyborg protomonsters that would die gloriously to fight the Clan threat (or their allies)

See also: Interstellar Operations, p. 82. The Inner Sphere ProtoMech interface.

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #10 on: 11 June 2020, 18:03:17 »
Its not that the Aerospace trueborns are the only ones that can operate it.  It's just that the Aerospace phenotype is more resistant to EI's negative effects.  If you can fit in the very small cockpit and don't mind going crazy in a year rather than three from the EI you can be a proto pilot.  If the WOB had access to the tech necessary (outside of Nightmare on Necromo) to make it you can bet they would make some cyborg protomonsters that would die gloriously to fight the Clan threat (or their allies)

Doing that.  They're frightening, even without Clantech.
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GermanSumo

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #11 on: 13 June 2020, 14:05:36 »
UltraProtos have bigger cockpits, so we need more UltraProtos.  >:D

we have those already :) we call them light mechs  ;D ;D ;D >:D

SteveRestless

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #12 on: 13 June 2020, 18:51:52 »
we have those already :) we call them light mechs  ;D ;D ;D >:D

In my campaign, one of the projects my mad scientist caste member is running, is the idea of fielding recycled upteched IS Bug Mechs with EI Pilots as "Superheavy Protomechs"
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Wolf72

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #13 on: 15 June 2020, 07:05:51 »
not-so-random tangent: just downloaded I.O. ... found the part about WoB/IS protomech pilots that Herb mentioned in another thread.

We have custom on-demand phenotypes thanks to WoB, wonder how many of them were fully voluntary.
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HABeas2

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #14 on: 15 June 2020, 09:25:21 »
not-so-random tangent: just downloaded I.O. ... found the part about WoB/IS protomech pilots that Herb mentioned in another thread.

We have custom on-demand phenotypes thanks to WoB, wonder how many of them were fully voluntary.

You honestly think the Manei Domini would chop the arms and legs off and provide the firepower of a ProtoMech to an unwilling subject? There's psychotic and there's cartoon villainy. They were much more the former than the latter.

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Wolf72

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #15 on: 15 June 2020, 10:07:25 »
You honestly think the Manei Domini would chop the arms and legs off and provide the firepower of a ProtoMech to an unwilling subject? There's psychotic and there's cartoon villainy. They were much more the former than the latter.

- Herb

I feel like someone is trying to jedi *handwave* me, but I wouldn't think they were out there dragooning people, just being not quite all honest with their recruitment.  Not as evil/bad as the movie "Coma" with Tom Selleck -- (ugh, that was 1978? must have caught that in syndication)
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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #16 on: 15 June 2020, 10:08:52 »
Well . . . I mean, for cults there IS a reason we say 'drink the kool-aid' as a phrase denoting devotion and/or coercion.

But yeah, in a world universe of coercion, brainwashing, and indoctrination there is no reason to go with 'we chopped your arms off and now you have to pilot this machine like we say!'  If the Kuritas can convince members of a technological society to commit seppeku then I see no reason the Blakists could not convince the devout to hack off limbs to 'serve' the cause as a living sacrifice.  I mean, that is pretty much what happened for the MD- sacrifice the biological for the mechanical.
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Wolf72

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #17 on: 15 June 2020, 14:04:32 »
Were fully articulated limbs ala Robocop/Alita available for them to plug into outside of a Protomech?

I mean if Kael Pershaw or Darth Vader can do it, so can WoB!
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SD501st

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #18 on: 15 June 2020, 15:30:28 »
You honestly think the Manei Domini would chop the arms and legs off and provide the firepower of a ProtoMech to an unwilling subject? There's psychotic and there's cartoon villainy. They were much more the former than the latter.

- Herb

Anyone else suddenly reminded of X-COM: Enemy Within and the MEC Troopers you could... create? Jeez, I made a point of only converting those that were grievously wounded. Anyway, these had "Off Duty Limbs":

The chief technician Shen kept suggesting that these basic artificial limbs were only temporary and once the Alien threat is over, much better ones could be made for them, enabling them to live a completely normal life... but he also said "A chop here, a chop there; and soon we'll have a soldier unlike anything the world has ever seen."  ???

In the Battletech Universe where prosthetics exist that are literally indistinguishable from a normal limb, and seeing that the Word and the MD were the largest users of these very advanced bionics, I'd say those "chopped" Protomech pilots when not inside their Proto could have gotten replacement limbs that would feel and look just like their "lost" limbs. If the WoB or MD would provide those, or even just less advanced versions, is a different matter entirely.
« Last Edit: 15 June 2020, 15:38:46 by SD501st »

idea weenie

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #19 on: 15 June 2020, 16:02:44 »
You honestly think the Manei Domini would chop the arms and legs off and provide the firepower of a ProtoMech to an unwilling subject? There's psychotic and there's cartoon villainy. They were much more the former than the latter.

- Herb

How about a MD with artificial limbs that simply gets a shunt plugged in, and the MD tells his system to provide the output through the shunt instead of to the physical limbs?

Similarly, artificial eyes get data input directly from the sensors.  The MD is not looking at the sensor screens, they are receiving the sensor data.

Hopefully surge protectors are included to avoid the bug zapper special

Wolf72

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #20 on: 15 June 2020, 19:03:41 »
WoB/MD managed to find ages old copies of Ghost in the Shell!
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HABeas2

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #21 on: 15 June 2020, 19:43:57 »
I feel like someone is trying to jedi *handwave* me, but I wouldn't think they were out there dragooning people, just being not quite all honest with their recruitment.  Not as evil/bad as the movie "Coma" with Tom Selleck -- (ugh, that was 1978? must have caught that in syndication)

The Domini weren't all that brain-washy, though they did create more than a few unwitting agents they could use (like Donner the Detonator). The operatives who got all those implants and suped-up prosthetics had to be unabashedly and utterly loyal to the cause (they were, after all, being asked to go out, commit genocide on an interstellar scale, and die if necessary to achieve it).
How about a MD with artificial limbs that simply gets a shunt plugged in, and the MD tells his system to provide the output through the shunt instead of to the physical limbs?

Similarly, artificial eyes get data input directly from the sensors.  The MD is not looking at the sensor screens, they are receiving the sensor data.

Hopefully surge protectors are included to avoid the bug zapper special

The artificial limbs would be removed before entering the ProtoMech interface; it's simply how the system was designed to work. They would only need prosthetics when outside the machine, after all. As to the surge protection...they couldn't use buffered VDNI, which mitigates pilot feedback. Nothing is said about the Pain Shunt, though. The rules ran as follows:

Rules Level: Experimental
Available to: PM
Tech Base (Ratings): Inner Sphere (E/XXFX)
The Word of Blake’s ProtoMech interface enables the use of ProtoMechs
in the same fashion as Clan warriors with EI neural implants, but requires
that the pilot be fitted with a standard (non-buffered) VDNI implant. The
implanted pilot may not possess any limbs—prosthetic or otherwise—but
may be equipped with other cybernetic modifications including dermal
armor and cybernetic eye, ear, and other internal organ replacements.
In gameplay, a ProtoMech operated via an Inner Sphere ProtoMech
interface will function in the same manner as a standard ProtoMech.
The interface lacks any form of ejection or escape systems.

Bottom line: the system plugged a VDNI-equipped head-&-torso-only subject directly into the ProtoMech's onboard systems, at which point the pilot functioned just like a Clan proto pilot with EI implants. They perceived the world around them "naturally" through the machine's sensors, and experienced its movement and damage as if it were their own bodies. (And in Necromo Nightmare, they went feral while inside their machines thanks to a bio-weapon, and thus the players could encounter bestial ProtoMechs acting just like animals, complete with attempts to "eat" them, even though the machine couldn't actually do so.)

So, to also answer SD501st's comment: yeah, the WoB Proto pilots likely got basic prosthetics for out-of-cockpit activities, though we never saw very much/any of them outside the Necromo Nightmare, and thus it remains vague just what their quality of life was.

- Herb

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #22 on: 15 June 2020, 21:42:44 »
You honestly think the Manei Domini would chop the arms and legs off and provide the firepower of a ProtoMech to an unwilling subject? There's psychotic and there's cartoon villainy. They were much more the former than the latter.

- Herb

Cartoon villainy requires Jade Falcons.  ;D
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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #23 on: 15 June 2020, 22:12:43 »
Cartoon villainy requires Jade Falcons.  ;D

Technically true . . .
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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #24 on: 16 June 2020, 09:00:04 »
Cartoon villainy requires Jade Falcons.  ;D

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #25 on: 16 June 2020, 10:45:21 »
Technically true . . .

You mean:

“Technically Correct!

The best kind of Correct!”

Ruger
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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #26 on: 07 July 2020, 12:03:35 »
Malvina Hazen wants to know your location.

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Mecha82

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #27 on: 07 July 2020, 15:37:31 »
Cartoon villainy requires Jade Falcons.  ;D

Only if you go by Battletech the Animated series that gives really inaccuare depiction of Jade Falcons or if you believe that Malvina Hazen represents all Jade Falcons. Neither are true.
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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #28 on: 07 July 2020, 18:38:07 »
She’s driving the clown car

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Re: ProtoMechs for other Phenotypes
« Reply #29 on: 07 July 2020, 19:16:49 »
She’s driving the clown car

And making converts . . . though the Warden Wolves were weeding some of those out.
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