UrbanMech Theory

[Mendrugo]

Many have questioned the design philosophy behind the UrbanMech - a light 'Mech with the speed of an Annihilator.  Useless on raids or in open field battles, it has been described as well suited for dense urban combat, because it can use its jump jets to reposition itself to adjacent streets.  Even in those circumstances, though, they aren't great.

However, I have an alternate theory.

The Mobile Long Tom entry in TRO:3025 says that it was developed as part of the Star League's "Main Guardian Defense System," which consisted of fortifications and mobile artillery intended to defend cities.  Looking at the stats for the Mobile Long Tom, they have exactly the same movement profile as the UrbanMech.  Coincidence?

Theory: The UrbanMech was also designed as a component of the Main Guardian Defense System, intended as dedicated escorts for the Mobile Long Toms.  Their speed would let them keep pace with their charge, and prevent them from succumbing to the temptation to rush off into battle. 

Looking at the Main Guardian concept itself, it seems odd that the Star League would invest in fortifying its cities, given the overwhelming might of the SLDF and the lack of any major foe that would be likely to besiege a major urban center. 

Thus, the Main Guardian infrastructure was probably intended for border worlds that were threatened by pirate attacks.  The Urbie debuted in 2675, during the Golden Years of the League.  Perhaps the League rolled out the Urbie and Main Guardian to protect facilities in areas where there was still ongoing banditry, and then expanded it massively once the Third Hidden War began, when false-flagged House forces began launching heavy raids against their neighbors to gain commercial advantage or retaliate for earlier raids. 

As one of the more paranoid Great Houses, even during the Star League, the Capellan Confederation would be one of the most likely to invest heavily in Main Guardian infrastructure.  It might not be a coincidence that cities like Tikograd were heavily fortified, that the Confederation's military doctrine was, for much of the Succession Wars, focused on massed artillery formations, and that the UrbanMech is more common in the Capellan Confederation than in any other Successor State. 

Your thoughts?

[Jellico]

The Urbanmech, like the Panther and Valkyrie is an exercise in mounting the largest weapon type possible on the smallest chassis.

[Daryk]

If they had gone with a 3/5/3 chassis, I could buy that...

[Orin J.]

Many have questioned the design philosophy behind the UrbanMech -

citation needed. it's a highly mobile turret with a gun potentially able to breach the cockpit and disable any 'mech.

and it's cheap. the philosophy always seemed solid to me. I don't treat it like a mobile asset, I treat it like a defensive emplacement that happens to be self-relocating when the situation calls for it.

[Major Headcase]

As for the Urbanmech's origins, it doesn't need to be some greater design philosophy. There are lots of niche style Battlemechs already, machines designed for a specific role that perform poorly when forced into a "general combat" role exemplified by the typical image of the does-everything-exceptionally-well Battlemech. Rifleman. Jagermech. Ostscout. Spider. Etcetera... The Urbbie is just another of these. Someone in SLDF Civil Defence Planning said "I like turrets, but what if the enemy comes from over there instead of over here??" And in an age were they make a Mech to solve every problem; "POOF!", the Urbbie was born.
As for the SLDF fortifying cities: while the SLDF was large and powerful, the Amaris war and the Succession Wars show how important fortified cities are when orbital bombardment is off the table. Like most powerful subjugators, the Star League planned for all military eventualities. IF a civil war in the SL happened, it would mean a majority of the member nations would be in revolt, because the House Lords were too gutless to stand up to Terra unless they felt certain of the possibility of victory. This would mean portions of the SLDF would become potential enemies, and the only forces they could TRULY trust in that eventuality would be units from the TH. This would reduce the SLDF's fighting strength and chain of supply, making "loyalist" territory extremely important to protect.
Rome made the same provisions for self defenses as the reliance on legions from the provinces grew.

[Mendrugo]

citation needed.

BattleCorps MilTech UrbanMech IIC 2: "As derided as the ’Mech is in the Inner Sphere, the UrbanMech fares little better in the Clans."

Technical Readout: Succession Wars: "During the Succession Wars the ’Mech was considered more of a liability than an asset. The Great Houses relegated the humble UrbanMech to garrison duty or stripped it for parts."

TRO: 3039: "Critics often note that, one way or another, an UrbanMech is good for about two minutes of combat."

Operation Excalibur: "The UrbanMech, a 30-tonner armed only with a small laser an an autocannon, thoroughly outclassed, outmatched, and outgunned, went down in a shrill clattering of parts, a severed leg, a fragmenting sheet of plate steel."

Tactics of Duty: "It was an UrbanMech, squat and ugly, looking more like some monstrous, round-topped kitchen appliance on legs than a BattleMech.  UrbanMechs massed only thirty tons, but they were slow for their size and difficult to maneuver.  In 'Mech-to-'Mech combat, most MechWarriors thought of them as dead meat - easy kills."

TRO: 3050 (Upgrade): "Created to defend the cities of the Star League, the Successor States reserved the humble UrbanMech for garrison duty."  (This text, more than any other, suggests a link between the Urbie and the Main Guardian Defense System.)

TRO: 3025:  "UrbanMechs were, in fact, among the last defenders of the Star League, fighting for control of vital urban centers as civil authority collapsed around them. Many were destroyed in the carnage, which is why the 'Mech is rarely seen outside Liao space. In the present era, House Liao maintains a relatively large number of UrbanMechs, deploying them in the fortified cities along its frontiers, where they have encountered both Davion and Marik forces."

TRO: 3025: "The Armstrong mobile Long Tom rifle variant is the last remnant of the Star League's main guardian defense system.  Key cities on garrisoned worlds usually possess this system."

Red Khopesh: "UrbanMechs didn't always get a lot of respect from the pilots of larger machines"

[SteelRaven]

The Urbie makes allot more sense once you look for the next cheapest AC/10 and AC/20 platforms.

The Rommel and Patton tanks are actually more expensive than the Urbenmech and the Urbies jump jets can help it get to firing positions the difficult or impossible for Battletanks. Urbanmechs also require one Mechwarrior to pilot vs a tank crew of 3 Tankers.

I do like the logic as the Urbies only exist to be a walking gun turret but even in the fluff text, other mechs can do the same job better. Maybe the Urbie was a stop gap before another mech took it's place and simply stay in existence thanks to it's affordable nature. Then again, the SLDF kept the Mackie in service until Kerensky packed his bags and left .

[Daryk]

Rommel/Patton tanks need 5 crew...

[MarauderCH IIC]

Rommel/Patton tanks need 5 crew...

What is the cost difference between training a MechWarrior and five tankers?

[Failure16]

You know, I'm not sure off-hand, but there is a lot more to force maintenance/upkeep than simply training costs.

I like Mendrugo's original contention of the UM being a component part of a specific doctrine.  It is not something I ever considered myself. It makes more sense than it simply being 'another BattleMech'.

Personally, I prefer to use UMs in an assault gun role supporting infantry or combat engineers (though I wish it had proper arms and hand actuators, natch). Even then I feel it could use that next increment of speed (I got you, Daryk), but at least it works. Elsewhere, the speed makes it nonviable as part of a front-line or even second- or third-line BattleMech formation. Put another way, when the logistical tail routinely outpaces you (or it is more convenient and faster to park your 'Mech on a Dragon Wagon), it's time to hang up your spurs and kick it with the sleepy looking guys in ranks.

The jump jets don't really help it either, even in a city. They don't hurt enough that I'd rather have a medium laser instead, but there were an awful lot of buildings in the original CityTech counter mix that were taller than L1 and -2. And the ones that were not were as apt as not to collapse under a thirty-tonne load limit, which led to interesting things when it came to rolling on the basements table.

But, you know, a lot of people laugh at UrbanMechs if they are in a BattleMech of similar mass or greater. Until they face one on Solaris VII using the original Dueling Rules in a Class 1 or even 2 fight. Then everyone else is laughing. A medium-heavy autocannon, six tonnes of armor, and the extra heat sink is no joke when living and dying in one-quarter time. Because everyone gets to the killing floor at the same time, and the victor gets to strut out as fast or slow as they want to.

[SteelRaven]

Rommel/Patton tanks need 5 crew...

Alright, my apologies. I don't play vehicles so I was going off Sarna.

(that said, I hate the was BT determines number of crew per vehicle)   

[Two Guns Blazing]

I guess the "real world" factors of making something cheap to suit a specific purpose, providing one element amongst many elements for city defence, was what made it attractive...especially when you consider training and maintenance on top of initial purchase cost of the unit.

Dropping the small laser, the jump jets and 1/2 ton of armour and using that 2 ton to make a total of 3 ton of ammo for the AC10 would be preferable for the Mech to fill a role where in a city (not a small town or low level settlement, but a city with a large area consisting of tall buildings), it could co-ordinate with other Urbanmechs to create a grid of interlocking arcs of fire down clear fire lines (the streets), but do so on an armoured platform that could retreat or advance at will (no need to set-up or pull-down a weapons system to move), is a cool idea. For urban areas with lower building heights, you could give it back the jump jets and have 2 ton of ammo, instead, if you wanted to.

Moving at ~30km/h is not a bad speed as a component of a larger formation maintaining a grid of interlocking arcs, when you have to withdraw or advance only one block at a time before taking up a firing position so another Mech in the grid can then move...if you are forced into a full blown retreat though, it's certainly not an ideal top speed...

[Frabby]

It's a nice theory but I feel it is countered by the fact that the UrbanMech was created a whooping 73 years after the LT-MOB-25. If it was designed with the Guardian city defense in mind then it was a very late afterthought...

[Mendrugo]

My thought on that is that the LT-MOB-25 was created due to the SLDF's experiences on the Taurian front in the Reunification War - when assaulting Taurian fortresses, it would be difficult to deploy fixed artillery for a siege, due to the heavy counterbattery fire from the elevated and hardened Taurian positions.  The solution was the self-propelled Long Tom. 

The mobile Long Tom could have been incorporated into the Main Guardian infrastructure decades later, once it became apparent that the SLDF wasn't going to be laying siege to fortresses again in the foreseeable future.

[Daryk]

What is the cost difference between training a MechWarrior and five tankers?

The salary difference is 1,500/month for the MechWarrior vs. 4,500/month for 5 vehicle crew (Campaign Operations, page 25 refers).

[Greywind]

TRO: 3039: "Critics often note that, one way or another, an UrbanMech is good for about two minutes of combat."

The average battle is less than 2 minutes. Most fights don't go over 12 rounds.

[Mendrugo]

The average battle is less than 2 minutes. Most fights don't go over 12 rounds.

The game mechanics dictate that.  In the fiction, there are accounts of ‘Mechs hammering at each other for hours in running battles.  That’s the standard the Urbie’s being measured against in 3039.

[Elmoth]

I think the time frames would be better if the map scale was shifted up by 10 or so, and the same with the time frames. it would make for longer battles fiction-wise.

I like the urbie as a mobile turret. I dislike it as a mech, but as a terrain feature it is cozy. I think ti would look great it if was a quad able to go hull down.

The theory of the Urbie as an escort for the long tom looks really nice, except that he is not much of a deterrent, so I don't know if it is worth it as an escort....

[massey]

Urbanmechs should probably be used as an infantry support mech.  They provide extra firepower and some hole-punching ability to basic platoons of grunts on foot.  The fact that they don't move fast doesn't matter, because neither do the infantry that they're supporting.  They're really just a big mobile field gun.

I see Urbanmechs similarly to the Wasp, Stinger, and Locust.  They are good enough at their specialist role to be useful, while being cheap enough to spam them.  Imagine having 1 Urbanmech for every battalion of foot infantry (9 platoons) or even 1 for every company (3 platoons).  That's going to make it much harder to take a city.

They are supposed to take advantage of hidden unit rules (ambushing an attacker so they don't get a TMM), and their jump jets let them break LOS afterwards.  A 2 hex jump isn't much, but if you win initiative, it's probably enough to let you move around a corner.  With their 6 tons of armor and AC-10, they're like a cheaper version of the Panther.  Yes, the Urbanmech is slower than the Panther, but in city terrain where you have to make lots of turns and roads require a piloting skill check when you run, they aren't that much slower.  Most mechs have "wasted" movement, where you'll have to make a piloting skill roll if you move forward that extra hex.  The Urbanmech simply accepts that it's only ever going to plod forward.  Plus the AC doesn't have a minimum range.

You can also use them for invading cities.  If somebody hits you with a hidden unit (using your own tactics against you), then an Urbie is a lot more survivable than other light mechs.  And if the hidden unit is something big (like an SRM carrier or something with an AC-20), then all you lost was an Urbanmech.

[Greywind]

The game mechanics dictate that.  In the fiction, there are accounts of ‘Mechs hammering at each other for hours in running battles.  That’s the standard the Urbie’s being measured against in 3039.

*shrug* Mechanics trumps fiction.

[Ruger]

The average battle is less than 2 minutes. Most fights don't go over 12 rounds.

I would dispute that in my experience.

I once had a lance on lance battle in which my force of mostly intro tech ‘Mechs (I think three 55 tonners including a Dervish, and one Hitman) took on an equal bv force of more advanced tech ‘Mechs.

My Dervish didn’t get rendered combat ineffective until round 22.

And we still had the rest of our lance with assorted battle damage, IIRC.

I’ve had other fights last longer. And shorter length battles too, of course.

Ruger

[SteelRaven]

If you want a more optimized machine, pick anything other than a Urbie.

I like the idea of the Urbie only because you have bad designs in the real world but our community has a weird tendency to worship mechs that are little more than memes.

[Marveryn]

It's a nice theory but I feel it is countered by the fact that the UrbanMech was created a whooping 73 years after the LT-MOB-25. If it was designed with the Guardian city defense in mind then it was a very late afterthought...

Yes but that many years is enough to see problem with the guarding and try to correct it.  We don't know what the rest of the system call for.  but perhaps whatever was prior they decided it woudlnt hurt to add some urbies.  At least the two may compliment each other and may had been initial part of the system but were added as time went on

[Agathos]

Urbanmechs should probably be used as an infantry support mech.  They provide extra firepower and some hole-punching ability to basic platoons of grunts on foot.  The fact that they don't move fast doesn't matter, because neither do the infantry that they're supporting.  They're really just a big mobile field gun.

Or I could invest in the real thing. If I'm looking at a motorized AC/10 field gun platoon from TacOps, the Urbie seems to suffer in comparison. I get two guns per platoon, I'm harder to kill with anti-'Mech weapons, I can't jump but I also can't skid, and I can move into and through buildings. (And I can drag the guns up the stairs for better sightlines -- don't ask). I guess the Urbie fits that niche where I think the enemy is bringing a lot of flamers and machine guns, or where I happen to have a MechWarrior standing by but I don't have time to draft and train an infantry platoon.

[Arkansas Warrior]

I guess the "real world" factors of making something cheap to suit a specific purpose, providing one element amongst many elements for city defence, was what made it attractive...especially when you consider training and maintenance on top of initial purchase cost of the unit.

Dropping the small laser, the jump jets and 1/2 ton of armour and using that 2 ton to make a total of 3 ton of ammo for the AC10 would be preferable for the Mech to fill a role where in a city (not a small town or low level settlement, but a city with a large area consisting of tall buildings), it could co-ordinate with other Urbanmechs to create a grid of interlocking arcs of fire down clear fire lines (the streets), but do so on an armoured platform that could retreat or advance at will (no need to set-up or pull-down a weapons system to move), is a cool idea. For urban areas with lower building heights, you could give it back the jump jets and have 2 ton of ammo, instead, if you wanted to.

Moving at ~30km/h is not a bad speed as a component of a larger formation maintaining a grid of interlocking arcs, when you have to withdraw or advance only one block at a time before taking up a firing position so another Mech in the grid can then move...if you are forced into a full blown retreat though, it's certainly not an ideal top speed...

Jump jets are a pretty big asset in a city.  Stripping them doesn’t make it a better mech.

[massey]

Or I could invest in the real thing. If I'm looking at a motorized AC/10 field gun platoon from TacOps, the Urbie seems to suffer in comparison. I get two guns per platoon, I'm harder to kill with anti-'Mech weapons, I can't jump but I also can't skid, and I can move into and through buildings. (And I can drag the guns up the stairs for better sightlines -- don't ask). I guess the Urbie fits that niche where I think the enemy is bringing a lot of flamers and machine guns, or where I happen to have a MechWarrior standing by but I don't have time to draft and train an infantry platoon.

But that wasn't a legal option until pretty late in the game.  Even though it's been retconned as being available earlier, I think you have to keep in mind what actually existed when they created the mech.

Besides, the real question isn't "what would a certain specific player do?"  It's "what would the Star League do?"

[Kit deSummersville]

Most fights don't go over 12 rounds.

Sure, then the judges make the decision who the winner is.

[Wolf72]

The game mechanics dictate that.  In the fiction, there are accounts of ‘Mechs hammering at each other for hours in running battles.  That’s the standard the Urbie’s being measured against in 3039.

I think those hours long battles are due to mechwarriors taking one, maybe two pot shots at opponents then disengaging and reengaging.  Not your stand and deliver the goods slugfest many tend to think of.

[Mendrugo]

Besides, the real question isn't "what would a certain specific player do?"  It's "what would the Star League do?"

Strap jump jets to a tank?

[massey]

Strap jump jets to a tank?

Now there's an idea!